Will a DOWNPIPE void the WRX STi Warranty?
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2020
- I'm on the fence of whether I should upgrade my Subaru WRX STi and go Stage 2. Before I do, my primary concern is whether the Stage 2 upgrades, primarily the downpipe, will void my Subaru warranty. Has anyone had their warranty voided because of some car upgrade?
I've taken some time to read about the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act which pretty much states that the warrantor may not demand that you use OE parts, and that if something happens to your vehicle, that they cannot void your warranty without proving that the part is what caused the malfunction. And that's for just that portion. So let's say that you blow your engine because of boost-creep due to a catless downpipe. According to this, the warrantor cannot void your suspension warranty for example.
Regardless of whether Stage 2 voids the warranty or not, I'm still considering doing it.
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act Summary
www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles...
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act Full Law
www.ftc.gov/system/files/docu...
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I used to own a 19 wrx and bought the stage 2 from MAPerformance they are located near where I live in Minneapolis and I have the opportunity to talked to them which they are awesome and great service.
I installed everything myself. They gave me severa maps for the cobbs and add 100whp to my wrx, it literally made a huge change to my car. I add 15k miles to my car with all this bolts on at 91-92octanes and never had an issue.
Highly recommended, I really encourage you to do it and don’t wait until you don’t have the warranty. The worst thing can happen it’s that you uninstalled everything before going to the dealer IF something really goes bad but with the stage 2 or 2.5 I don’t thinking you can hurt the engine at all. You will be under 400hp
My stage 2 was: J-pipe, mid , muffler deleted, high flow air filter which makes super loud noise it’s incredibly. And bought Cobb’s port with them and they gave me several maps at different octane. I normally use it at 91-92 but I also have the 93. They have their own car modify with all this bolts and tunned and that’s how they have all the maps preloaded already.
From what I can tell, the WRX produces more power than the STi with similar types of upgrades. I mean, I'd really like to see 100whp from a turbo-back system, but I doubt it for the STi. Also, with the STi, there's no OTS map for the intake/downpipe combo. Stage 1 is Intake/Accessport. Stage 2 is turbo-back/Accessport. If you went with Stage 1 on the STi, you'd have to remove the intake to go Stage 2 or just jump to Stage 3 with all of the additional fuel-upgrades.
Did you get your car dynoed? I'd really like to see the before/after sheet on the WRX.
And I'm starting to lean towards what you're saying. Just go for it. But I really hope that nobody from the dealership that I take my car to is watching the channel :)
My apologies in advance if this post is a bit long. Full disclosure, I don't own a Subie but I have been looking to get a new car and the 2020 STI Series White is on my short list of cars that I am shopping. So I have done quite a bit of research on modding the STI.
I currently have a 2016 VW GTI full bolt-on Stage 2 E30 tuned. It's pretty much well known in the GTI/Golf R community that as soon as you tune your car, your warranty as it relates to your engine and turbo is pretty much history. It's my understanding that if you get a dp, a tune is pretty much required on an STI. The second you hit that button to download a tune onto your ECU, your wallet is your new warranty if you blow your engine. On a GTI/Golf R, a VW tech can scan your ECU and see if it has been tuned. There is a flash counter on the ECU that will show how many times the ECU has been flashed. Once they see that, your VIN # gets branded with a code called a TD1. This TD1 code basically means modified vehicle, warranty voided. I'm sure Subaru probably has a similar kind of system. That's not to say that if your A/C malfunctions that they won't warranty your A/C if your car is tuned. They will. But if you have ringland failure on a tuned STI, you are basically SOL. Bottom line, you pay to play.
Yeah I get what you’re saying, but that’s not the point. Dealers are saying that your warranty is void just because you have an aftermarket part installed during something like a routine oil change. And a lot of the times they’re no proving that the aftermarket part is the cause of the issue. That’s the whole point. I just wanted to see if anyone actually challenged it. I was able to find a lawyer that challenges those claims...so I’m still interested to see if anyone actually challenged it.
www.forthepeople.com/breach-of-warranty-lawyers/
If my engine blows, I’m just going to replace it with a built one. But if other issues happen, I’d rather it be covered.
Local dealer had a blown WRX in the shop...tune was noted....warranty was voided .....cost was huge to the owner.....SOA is super if the car is stock....so I plan to stay stock until my warranty is done....
It is silly, and there is a quote somplace back in 2015 that the engineers who made the car said people could get power on the aftermarket so they concentrated on the handling.......so there you go. I may go stage 2, but if I do it will be with a protune only. And I will keep 8k around for a new engine..... I have a 2019 and find the power, for the street, to be good...you can floor it and not get killed......something to be said for not having too much power.....but I'd like 400hp too of course.
Lol. I had some issues with my C5 Corvette overheating. One thing led to another and I just realized today that I hadn’t driven that car outside of the neighborhood for over 6 months! I decided to take it out and make sure that it wasn’t overheating still. I floored it a couple of times. I came home drenched in sweat. My wife said “it must have been super hot out there.” I was running the AC the whole time. The car has 407whp and is absolutely terrifying to drive...so I get what you’re saying too. But even after that...I’d still like a 400hp STi 😁
I just bough an Sti not too long ago and it’s now stage 3. I asked them for sure they said it will not void the whole warranty but it will void the one that you replaced. Also they only void the warranty if they can proof that the “parts” you install cause an issue. So pretty much if you have bad relationships with your dealer they will “decline” your warranties claims instead of saying that it’s voided.
That’s exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks!
I'm sure I'm way too late on this but here is my 2 cents and experience.
If the mod you put on requires a remap, Subaru has the option to deny repair under warranty. Some dealerships won't care and will get SOA to honor a rebuild, but the computer can tell how many times the ecu has been flashed/re-mapped (basically it resets how many times the ignition has been turned) so unmarrying your access port just makes it look like you are trying to hide something and will probably make it worse. When I blew mine up, all I had was an intake and stage 1 remap. SOA would not rebuild my engine under warranty because I had flashed the ecu. They did tell me the same thing that you went over on the legal-ease of it. Bottom line, if you want to keep your warranty, don't do anything that requires a remap/flash. Other bolt on's might cause issues, but they would have a lot harder time denying a claim, it would then come down to the dealership.
As a result of this, my 2015 now puts 470 to the ground and is a whole lot more fun.
I plan on waiting until my warranty is up before I mod mine. I can’t afford a new engine right now. If you can afford to fix/build it if it blows I say go for it.
Damn it that is a GREAT argument
Agreed, save money for a IAG stage 5 closed deck block and all the goodies
I've been looking at that block for quite some time now.
If you go stage 2, I'd highly recommend MAPerformance's catted downpipe instead of Cobb's. The reason is they have an actual GESI certified high-flow-cat with its own EPA# right on it. That way no matter what state you go to, even California, you'll pass emissions testing, inspections, and federal laws. No muss no fuss. Plus it's super high quality.👍
Always heard good things about MAPerformance but didn’t know about the GESI certification. And wow...CA ready...that’s pretty impressive considering you can’t even get an intake over there 😁
I also bought stage 2 from MAPerformance and got 100whp. They already have the maps preloaded in the cobbs
Actually GESI doesn't pass California :/ I live in Cali and still bought the Stage 2+ from MAPerormance with their tune. It's true, 0 knock. 0!!! And pulls hard as heck.
@@ivanroque7171 Good to know!
Ivan or Brad, from what I understand you need to upgrade your fuel system to run intake/downpipe on the STi. Seems like MAPerformance says that you don't?
At the dealer, we had special Subaru laptops that checked the CID# and other modules relating to the ECU and such. All that information would be sent through to Subaru of America to approve of the repairs. I looked away on vehicles that were modded and tuned. So I was able to have warranty work done on those said vehicles. Therefore, having a friend in the dealership would keep your warranty, say a 90% chance of keeping your warranty. The other 10% is prying eyes that see things on the vehicle and reporting it.
I've seen other technicians get vehicles that were tuned and they reported it. No warranty motor, or trans. Whatever the customer came in for.
It's just a matter of if you care or not for the warranty tbh! Subaru cannot expect their customers to stick with their same old STI motor.
Thanks for that input. So, if certain technicians see any type of modification, they would report it to SOA and SOA would deny the repair? I'm just asking, but based on the Warranty-Act, did you or anyone you know ever have to prove that the issue was caused due to the mod? Has anyone questioned the repair techs? Also, if someone comes for a routine oil change, and one of those repair techs sees the Subie modified, do they contact SOA and let them know? And does SOA void their warranty then?
Sorry for the million questions...but you seem to be on the inside so I thought I'd ask. :)
@@CarModGuy A simple oil change paired with a spiteful tech can lead to your car being noted as modified. My car was modified and the rod bearings blew on my 14 WRX. We had to put a full description as to why the bearing failed and why none of the numbers matched up in the system when checked lol. But because I worked there, I was able to pull some strings with command at the dealership itself.
When it comes to major repair, SOA must be notified to approve the repair. If it's simple things, then your car will have notes on the SubaruNet website for all techs to see. So technically, the warranty won't be voided with the notes.
All I had was a full turbo back. I'd advise replacing your oil pickup tube to avoid the rod bearings issue. Will be doing it on my 2020 STI soon lol
Gotcha. Thanks for the explanation. So if you guys found out that it was the oil-pickup tube, SOA can deny the warranty claim because you upgraded your exhaust, even if it has nothing to do with the issue?
@@CarModGuy
I'd say that they cannot deny the claim if it was a factory component that caused the motor to go. Unless the technician states the vehicle was modified.
There is a TSB out now for 08-14 WRX that state, if the rod bearings are the cause of the motor going. It's replaced under Subaru.
Also an upgraded oil pickup tube shouldn't void the warranty.
I just bought a 2020 limited sti here in so cal. The finance guy said upgrading would not void my overall warranty but it would void the warranty on the parts I upgraded.
That makes absolute sense to me...but does it to SOA?
The finance guy will tell you anything to sell the vehicle don't believe everything they say and do research . The finance guy we're I bought my STI told me extended warranty covered clutch replacement and guess what it was a lie.
I got a 2020 GTI and purchased a catless downpipe and I haven’t put it on yet because I’m scared and hesitant. What should I do? Should I put it on but take it off when going to the dealer?
Depends on if the dealer can check the tune. If they can see that the number of starts has been reset, they’ll know regardless. Are you still within warranty?
Stage 2 (Cobb OTS) doesn't add a lot of top end power. But the low and mid range gains are noticeable and i'd say significant.
Do you have one yourself?
@@CarModGuy yeah. Started with a Stage1 only to get the AP installed and run a few logs/fuel checks. Power-wise, Stage1 OTS is not worth it at all. So i installed the downpipe shortly after... noticeable gain to the low and mid range. Very minor gain to the top end, but really fun, and very worth it. I ran Stage 2 for over a year... now it's Stg3. 3 is great, but far from cost-effective and at Stage 3 going back to stock is pretty out of the question in terms of how many parts and how complicated the return to stock would be. Stage 2 is a cheap part/install that's easily swapped back to stock.
I was looking at the differences between Stage 2 and Stage 3 OTS and it didn't seem like there was really any difference. Did you get yours pro-tuned?
@@CarModGuy yeah my Stage 3 is protuned. Also running AEM intake instead of the Cobb intake. The difference is mostly in the top end, where a 'little bit of extra power' makes a noticeable difference. It's not night and day like suddenly you're beating M3s; an M3 will still walk it. But when paired with the handling the car feels great and plenty of fun for any condition.
@@CarModGuy so the real best bang for buck is Stage 2. If you think about it, it's just an Accessport and a $500 downpipe. Stage 3 is a gain, but the $$ goes mostly to set the car for real big power later on if you want (e85, bigger turbo, FMIC, up-pipe/EWG, etc).
if you have to tune i would for safety's concern assume it will. the tune on the 2015-2020 wrx is so awful its worth doing it. i used MAP's 93 tune for less than a year pretty stock then just saved up about 8k before i modded heavier and did a pro tune.
8k...what did you do?
@@CarModGuy tgv, egr catted j pipe MAP top mount intercooler, crawford aos, cobb accessport, invidia R400. just to be clear i didnt spend 8k i saved up 8k to in case i broke something.
I gotcha 👍
@@CarModGuy i was pretty drunk when i sent that and wasn't very clear. Unless the 2021 sti is what is rumored to be then im keeping this car for the long term.
Lmao 😂
No one can void a warranty, which everyone knows by now. If you mod and tune your car and you blow your motor the dealership will deny a claim for a new motor. You gotta pay to play, if you want to mod you better have the funds for a rebuild.
If you dont have at least 100k in savings in general then its very reckless to modify your car and reckless spending in general
“Time to order some parts before the wife comes in..” LOL
😂😂😂
😂
Car Mod Guy I always see you in Georgia shirts... I love your videos; however, I did go to Georgia Tech for graduate school. But I didn’t realize the extent of the rivalry until I relocated to Atlanta for those two years; however, fortunately I still prefer the color red. And your car is awesome. I now live in California. I went to Colorado for undergrad if that helps. And I now own red 2020 STI, so I will be following your videos.
Lol. Someone just gave me a couple of those shirts and they’re super comfortable 😁. I went to Georgia State so we were neighbors. And thanks man. Keep in touch.
always pray that iget home first when carparts gets delivered😅
Downpipe and tune will likely trigger denied engine warranty claims. I'm sure there must be ways around it, but in a nutshell. Once you tune it... you're on your own.
Yeah that's what I keep hearing and another person that works/worked for Subaru somewhat confirmed that. I'd really like to hear from someone who's been denied warranty work due to mods...and they knew about the Warranty Act.
@@CarModGuy yeah almost everyone knows about the warranty act. It's not that they deny every claim you go for... but if you spin a bearing or crack a ringland and have a tune and/or significant engine modifications, it's fairly common that they don't cover your engine repairs. But if your A/C dies or something alike, they would still cover you. I don't think SoA is "out to get ya", but they don't give you a new engine just because...
If you change your own oil and are willing to put it back stock to try a warranty claim just replace the battery at same time so they don't question the ecu reading. That's my 2 cents.
And they can not void your warranty. But they can deny a claim.
Yeah that’s what I would have done anyway. Why change the battery?
Pretty sure taking battery out resets the ecu but I’m not sure if they can check the history or not
I think the tune resets the number of times the car has been turned on but I didn’t think that pulling the battery reset it.
@@CarModGuy that's the way it was explained to me. Never had to try it cars given me no problems and 1500 miles of warranty left. Bet something gives in 1501 miles lol.
I’m Stage 2 with a custom tune. I’m guessing I’d have to get a lawyer if something fails. If you’re just doing the Cobb Tune, don’t bother i was disappointed
You couldn’t tell a difference? Did you dyno it before and after the pro-tune? I’m curious as far as the numbers go.
You saying the Cobb stage 2 tune is garbage compared to a protune? Yes please share!
Car Mod Guy I could tell a slight difference. I went with a Cobb catted DP and an Invidia R400 cat back. Car sounded great but I didn’t feel much of a difference. Maybe 15hp best guess. Did not dyno it unfortunately. I went with a Protune from Brentuning and that woke it up. I’d say it gained more power throughout the rpm band. I just feel like Cobbs tunes are ultra conservative
Subie Seduction not garbage but when you pay that much for an exhaust you’d hope for at least 25hp and it just doesn’t feel like it (to me)
Did you buy the turbo back right away? Or did you have the catback before?
A Cobb sf intake voided my warranty.
Damn...what happened exactly?
Car Mod Guy , bought a 13 sti with a Cobb sf Intake on it . Drove it 35 km home & the piston let go . They are saying the maf was not calibrated & cyl ran lean. My engine stopped completely at 130kph in 6th gear. Now I’m worried my new engine going in is gonna blow cause I don’t know if the maf is tuned or not with an ap or pro tune
Gotcha. Did you get an AP with the car?
Car Mod Guy nope so I’m hoping the car has the sf map on it . It blew June 30th I will get the car back this sat but I did buy an ap & loaded the map just in case
Damn dude. Sorry to hear that. Running lean is what people most fear when installing an intake without a tune.
it will void ur warranty ive been there , u have to put back everything to stock if u wanna fix something
They didn't question you when you unmarried the Access Port?
Car Mod Guy u just needa uninstall the accessport , when u uninstall the stock map will go back to normal and wont void ur warranty, the dealer said subaru dont care as long as ur car is stock then they will fix it
@@baonguyen142 Don't count on that man. They can tell if you reflashed the ecu.
@@revengefullobster4524 u can tell them u unplug the battery , i told the the exact thing and they fixed for me
@@baonguyen142 basically comes down to the dealer. Disconnecting the battery doesn't show up as a reflash. They can tell. Unhooking your battery doesn't affect the cars ecu at all. Just hooking an access port up won't void the warranty any more than hooking up a code reader and they can't tell that. It's when you get in and actually change the stock setting.
I heard anything further than a catback :,(
Yeah that’s what I keep hearing but I can’t find people that actually have had it voided.