Analysis: How BAD Is The Doom 3 Shotgun Really? - JarekTheGamingDragon
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PS: If you think the Doom 3 shotgun is bad, you're bad at Doom 3.
I use opera gx and it blue and green its best
I disagree with your argument of "it's a shotgun, it's supposed to be close range". I mean yeah that's how shotguns are supposed to work typically, but outside of Doom 3 I can't think of a single fps where you absolutely NEED to be within spitting distance of an enemy in order to do even decent damage with it. It just isn't satisfying or fun, especially with how weak the sound effects are
@@dannyboi5887 There is no defined way a shotgun should be. Doom 3 is all CQB, if it had a tighter pellet spread it would be OP. Just learn to dodge the attacks and properly use the shotgun. It's user error if it's not killing.
Irl a shotgun can hit pretty far
But its doom, and tbh it makes sense to be near melee range because it incentivises you to "overcome your fear" (lol) or more realistically to be aggressive
Nah the shotgun is fine, my main problem with the game is the difficulty, is pretty easy, so I tried slightly buffing the enemies as much as possible without turning them into bullet sponges with unavoidable attacks, and I think I nailed it
"Black and red is the optimal color"
*Shadow the hedgehog music intensifies*
*pumps M-16 rifle*
I guess that also explains why canonically Shadow's favorite anime is Kill la Kill, because the main character Ryuko mainly has a red and black color scheme
Oh hey, those are two of my favorite colors.
More like nazi intensifies
Old school kane walks towards the ring.
Ah yes, the Doom 3 shotgun: my favorite melee weapon from any FPS.
WOW WHAT AN ORIGINAL AND FUNNY JOKE
@@dopey473 Damn, you're so clever! Kudos!
is not bad is a great gun you can complete the game with only shotgun
@@halkdwarf5481 Dunno about completing the entire game with it unless you're a serious masochist, but it's very good at what it does. It's just that what it does is also very easy to make fun of, considering it barely has more effective range than the chainsaw.
@@halkdwarf5481 since it got way more ammo than any other weapon, of course you can beat the game with only it.
"whenever a game does audio well, you'll remember it" oh boy, play Hunt Showdown, you'll love the audio in that game
Agreed
In Hunt: Showdown the audio is as vital part of the game as the gunplay.
Hunt Showdown is one of my favorite games right now
It has less active players than my rural Aussie town. Is there a reason to play such a niche title when I'd be lagging playing with others? It's absolutely a great looking experience and I've followed for years, still...
@@Axisoflords I haven't had that experience enough to say it makes the game not worth it. I've had some of my favorite multi-player FPS firefights in Hunt. And I think there's more active players than you think
I wouldn’t mind if the DOOM brand tried another attempt at a survival horror experience. Not a main line title; but imagine a side story of the underpaid UAC staff who are few remaining living souls on a Mars base.
Something like alien isolation but with doom monsters
@@Grandmastergav86 maybe very low "Big gun" ammo, so that you really don't have to waste it kinda what SIGIL did on Ultra-Violence
A DOOM spin-off to fill the void Dead Space left
what part of Doom 3 was "survival" to you?
@@kriskappakeepo3991 you are trying to survive the game🥴...and it has horror elements hence survival horror yes I get it to some people..survival horror means resource management tied into a horror game..including sleeping and eating.
I am glad Doom 4 never was made just to avoid "Call of Duty phase"
Have you seen the scrapped footage? It very nearly was. So glad we got DOOM '16 instead, near perfect game
@@0lionheart Yup, that why I am glad they scrapped it, not to mention the cut Scenes was horrible to see as if it was some cheap Terminator movie
@Freesmart yes, they scrapped Doom 4 development because bethesda wanted new IP from them hence they're making Rage and advertise it as "DOOM meets QUAKE"
I like to believe the main concept of Doom 4 was scrapped. It was then taken to the ER, revived, and come out in 2016 as the badass game of that year.
Yes. I call Doom 2016 as Doom 4. For that reason and math. 2016. 20-16=4. Doom 2016 is Doom 4 confirm.
Honestly, the scrapped "Call of DOOM" beta is excellent spin-off material/bait.
"Whenever a game does audio well, you remember it"
I can still hear the Halo CE assault rifle, pistol and shotgun in my mind... yeah ok, all the other weapons as well.
I can hear literally any Halo weapon pre-2010 in my mind, hell, even some of the newer ones...
Must be a Halo thing
And Chipps Dubbo screaming "Here's one for my mum!" Before chucking a grenade.
@@PolymurExcel "Hey! Catch!"
Or the classic Bisenti wall grenade throw, "Frag out!".
For me it's a lot of the weapon sounds from older WW2 games, or even the chatter of german soldiers. Especially medal of honor allied assault
**Plasma pistol overcharge intensifies**
Killing an spawning imp with the shotgun is like playing whack a mole.
"But sometimes your mallet is a rubber chicken".
@@MrZebub My nigga
But with gore and lead
@@MrZebub based cv11 reference
I'm just watching a 16-minute video about one weapon from a nearly 17-year-old game.
What am I doing with my life
dying
Well.... you're not alone.
Your doing whatever you want. That's freedom buddy
@@jillvalentinefan77 Saddam Hussein lecturing us on the merits of freedom, gotta love it
@@Nikp117 If your loyal too me your free citizen.
Getting good at dodging fireballs and missiles to close to effective range with the shotgun was oh so satisfying.
I prefer killing commandos by crouching to dodge their attack and shoving a shotgun to their faces.
Need a mod where it just yells "I'm bad" everytime it fires
Nah, it should say the name of HP lovecraft's cat
Well, I at least made a mod where it fires plasma slugs instead of buckshot.
ua-cam.com/video/WtUsK8ctA3Y/v-deo.html
@@blackagent4754that’s cool 👍
And then Michael Jackson as a demon is summoned.
@@j.d1972 Thanks.
The Doom 3 shotgun is super inconstant when ever I use it...so idk what to do, point blank can take 1-3 shots on an imp for no known reason
probably high spread with some bullets hitting the head, feet, etc.
with practice and the right angle you can consistently one shot imps. But i really mean point blank, like closest possible you can get to it.
@@Ericozzz very impractical, verdict: gun is bad
@@Spore1018 like a lot of people already said it its essentially a meele weapon. Trying to shoot from even small distances will make it bad. But the game lets you swim on ammo even on nightmare mode so you can simply ignore it.
For me I have the same problem, I’ll one shot an imp, then the next 10 or so will take my whole clip at the same range
So.. I'm the heretick. I actually liked Doom 3 on the narrative aspect of it. How the story was told trough the audiotapes and with enviromental ways.
Delta labs levels 2 and 4. Was the largest wtf moments in the game for me (when you actually finally got there. Before going to short trip in hell"
I’m not going to lie out of all the doom games including the new ones I love doom 3 the most
I like doom 3, especially the style of everything. But the game just doesn’t have much replay-ability. Don’t get me wrong it’s a great game, but it’s long, a bit too long, and pretty repetitive.
Oh, the PDAs. Back when PDAs were actually a thing. The nostalgia.
That threat can be more of an invitation to others 13:04
The worst thing about DooM 3 is that the super shotgun isn't in the base game.
I know it sucks
CSTDoom3 mod adds it as an option. I usually play Doom 3 with this mod nowadays. Also adds the chainsaw in RoE.
Resurrection of Evil is PART of Doom 3, get both!
@@gameragodzillaYou're not a Doom 3 purist if you play with mods, they all suck, ALL SUCK!
@@Foebane72bro what?
For those who dont know
Spunkgargleweewee is a FPS sub-genre, a very linear and story focus game with lots of cut-scenes and often a very restrictive level design
or you could say an over-glorified Michael Bay interactive movie
Think stuff like Modern Warfare 2 (2009) and a lot of the Call of Duty games that copied its formula.
So half life minus the cutscenes
I thought it was because Yahtzee from Zero Puncuation likes gargling spunk and weewees?
Look....it's not that it's not effective....it just doesn't feel good....the sounds, the aesthetic...
And the fact it'll hit floor and ceiling beyond close range.
The Doom 3 shotgun sounds are actually pretty fantastic. The sound effect of the pump makes the bolt sound heavy as hell, giving you the impression that you're about to fire 8 or 10 gauge shells. The recoil makes it feel like you're punching a demon in the face. But, maybe you were too frightened to actually charge a demon and give them a lobotomy.
Wait hold up chief, the sound was decent but the Aesthetic of it was cool. It looks like a large meaty weapon that packs some serious punch the spread is the only serious problem with it.
@@av3nger3 Real talk son. My guess is it's chambered in 8 guage given the size of the shells. 12 guage just ain't gonna cut it on mars.
I hate the all-or-nothing nature of the gun. Plus the pump sound is horrible IMO, it sounds like you're jerking off a rusty bike lock.
0:21 I mean I kinda get the Mario part because of the platforming but I don't understand the Warframe part.
... Rad weaponry?
It's probably the airborne movement they don't like.
I always love how it looks and sounds but the spread though, based on what I've seen in the def files, the spread when you use it is 22, but for the zombie shotgunners its 5
What I did was simple. I changed the spread number of the shotgunners to 22 as well so we can have a fair fight haha
I myself just went and made a mod that makes the player's shotgun fire a slug, while the Z-sec shotgunners still have pellets.
eh, the doom 3 shotty always look odd to me, the alpha shotty looked better.
Hot take: im not a fan of the alpha shotgun and the trent reznor sounds either
only thing I liked was the commando sounds
I also always thought that the Doom 3 Shotgun wasn't bad either. You just have to adapt to the gun itself. I just beat the BFG Edition on Nightmare again and that thing is my main weapon 80% of the time.
Tbf, BFG ed. is chock full of ammo pickups, everywhere. So you won't worry about running dry on ammo.
0:21 ok jarek this one triggers me by ton
Can I ask why. Not throwing shade I'm genuinely curious.
@@michaelsoulz8447 Dude was kidding
@@michaelsoulz8447 mario meets warframe. Huh?
I, for one, enjoy Doom 3 for what it is and what it sets out to do. The weapons are janky but other than that, I've enjoyed it back then, and I still do now.
_Fight me IRL, scrub!_
Same. I especially appreciate the lore.
@@seamusperkins2526 is good gives more realistic and real story of an accident i like the shotgun you can complete the game with this
i enjoy it so much too
i found doom 3 kinda ok, not bad, but not really good, however, i really liked the expansion and for sure it's way better than TNT Evilution.
@@marrvynswillames4975 uhh, it's expansion*
Oh nice! This shotgun is great for shooting your friend into the pits at that one parkour puzzle section. Appreciate the uploads
When did doom 3 have parkour
@@demonjmh its a jumping dodge lazers and spike balls section. Like all I remember of the game
Ugh i remember trying to mod the game to make the shotgun have any sort of reasonable scatter pattern. The thing couldn't hit the side of a barn door point blank.
the spread is actually higher than real life shotungs, i relember people said that putting it on 6 greatly improves the game
@@marrvynswillames4975 Yea, I own a shotgun now, but even as a kid I was like wtf? Even if it had poor drop off up to 10 meters but had a smaller spread i would have been okay with this. But its either spend 4 rounds at anything over point blank or go point blank.
@@JustAGuy93-G or... just don't use the shotgun. Honestly, even using the crappy machine gun is more useful as weak as it is. By the time you run up to point blank an imp it would have already been dead because I was shooting it with the machinegun while dodging projectiles. This is why the shotgun is bad. it's obsolete.
@@squirts1 I did lol.
@@squirts1 Shotgun kills a lot faster than the machine gun once you can close the distance. I used the shotgun as my default weapon in Doom 3 due to abundant ammo and the fact that it’s a one shot kill if you did get up close.
My only issue with Doom 3 was about halfway through, I felt like I was fighting nothing but imps
my issue was that you can cut lots of levels without missing anything, specially the last 7 levels
"Its not scary cause I have a gun" um excuse me dead space has something to say about that. Yeah that doesn't exactly have guns but its close enough!
I did not find Dead Space scary at all.
I've played the first two, never touched the third and never will--but neither of them were scary to me. Though, surprisingly 2 managed to make me jump at least once with the same jump scare tactic that's throughout both games.
@@malkrow21 you're not human then lol
For me scary was bloodborne...manhunt 1 and condemned 1..and for a bit outlast..but having kids and bills is the scariest game.
Dead Space isn't a fast moving FPS though. In Doom 3 you can strafe around dodging all the enemies & easily kill them, whereas in DS Isaac has fairly slow, clunky movement & the necros can gang up & swarm on you.
@@frostbite3820 Depends, really. I didnt feel scared in Dead space but thats because the weapons can reliably take out the enemies and i got a good enough aim to land most of my shots. Only thing that gets under my skin is the regenerating necromorph. Really dont like those guys.
While I respect your opinion on the Shotgun in this game I am with Civvie 11, I only have negative memories of the shotgun in Doom 3.
Yeaaaaaaah......Doom 3's Shotgun is trash...cause its not the Shotguns from every other Doom
@@DANSTER999 Cause is fucking useless. Not even a high risk/high reward thing. If you cut the spread by a 30 %, you would have a good shotgun that is unstopable at melee range and decent 3 cm away. lol
@@Grayest_Fox idk why you all hate but I respect it but I can kill every boss with it :/ even at the highest difficulty :/
I play BFG edition
@@Grayest_Fox It is the most effective tool early game, hell, I think it is a bit overpowered considering Doom 3's difficulty.
... but its not bad... it looks cool, sounds cool, extremely useful. And the double barrel is oh so much better.
i didn't even used it after getting the double barrel, in part because there's no situation where the normal would be better, unlike, let's say, areas with enemies at longer ranges on classic
The problem with it is that its spread is all over the place, you don’t know if it will kill an enemy in one shot or if some or most of the spread will miss the target and that is a HUGE problem when facing enemies like the commandos or k-sec troopers because one shot can mean the difference between life and death.
@@honestlynotanazi6063 haha its a shotgun, it is meant for close range, of course the spread is all over the place. If you are missing at close range with a shotgun, you're doing it wrong... its purpose in doom 3 is, "in your face". Jarek explains this same thing in his video and I wholeheartedly agree. Doom 3 shotgun is not a bad shotgun. Apex legends mamba, is a bad shotgun. Real life's Kobrey Terminator, is a bad shotgun as a couple examples of bad shotguns... Doom 3's shotgun is not those.
good point
@@ther0n1nnamed47 close range doesnt mean 20 cm or closer though?
So do you think shotguns who can kill enemies which are farther than 20 cm and doesnt have wildly inconsistent spread "unrealistic and bad"?
The point might be x but that doesnt mean you have to agree. Like not being able to use light and gun at the same time is both criticized and praised because it has a point but that point doesnt make it fun, like Jarek also explains why he thinks it doesnt add much except a few scenes and uses ducttape mod.
Personally I think the shotgun isn't super bad on it's own, but compared to the other shotguns in the Doom franchise I don't want to get up close to an imp as if I'm trying to whisper the name of HP lovecraft's cat to him.
What was it's name tho
I found the shotgun better than the base shotgun in Doom 2016 or Eternal honestly, mainly because those shotguns didn't seem to kill instantly no matter how close I was. Doom 3's shotgun has the power to insta-kill every grunt tier enemy and two shit every mid-tier enemy like Cacodemons, Pinkies and Revenants. Yes, you have barrel stuff the demons in order to do so, but I'd rather increased power than increased range simply because getting into range is part of running and gunning. Not killing instantly no matter how close I am is less fun. It's why the Super Shotgun basically rendered the standard shotgun obsolete in both games unless I'm using altfire.
I always thought the shotgun felt bad, thought it was just me.
Did you even watch the video?
@@madichelp0 did you watch him have to constantly shove the gun into a demons asshole just to make the gun do what it's supposed to do at regular short range?
I loved the pumping sound of the D3 Shotgun, very heavy and mechanical, felt like a badass racking a kill with each shot and then dat pump
I am a year late but yeah I totally agree!
The Doom 3 shotgun is a perfect weapon for the game it inhabits. You're wandering around Mars in relatively close quarters, and the shotgun is a great starting weapon for when you're rounding corners and find an enemy jammed on the end of your weapon. There are way too many games where you get the shotgun or super shotgun right at the start of the game, and it is too good of a weapon that rarely requires you to actually use something else.
The double barrel sawed-off shotgun is much more fun, though. Too bad it was only included in the addon(s).
Yup, people who complain about Doom 3 being "slow", seem to forget how games were evolving back then; Half-Life 2, FarCry, FEAR, Halo 2 and the quite underrated TCoR: Escape From Butcher Bay.
VIdeogame characters weren't running at over 50mph anymore, specially with consoles in mind.
There's plenty of fast moments in Doom 3 where multiple enemies spawn in and surround you also. I think its just trendy to talk shit about Doom 3 at this point.
Half Life 2 is pretty fast tho
I agree with you on the point that doom 3 is a good game but no, the shotgun sucks not because it has low range but because the damage and spread is too random sometimes you can kill an imp with one shell another time it may take even 4 shells in the same circumstances. In my opinion its too random to be a reliable weapon and comparing it to shotguns in previous doom games makes it all the more disappointing.
Yes, the spread could've been slightly less random, but that doesn't instantly make it suck. As you can see in this video, the vast majority of the times it'll kill an Imp with a single shot.
If it takes 4 shots to kill the imp that's on you, any more than 2 shots and you can't aim
@@MrPsyren99 How do you "aim" with the Doom 3 shotgun exactly?, it's like aiming snot from your nose from a hard sneeze.
@@SynthLizard8 u run up and shove it up their pooper and fire
Yeah, there is a ton of graphic mods but not much gameplay mods (and tools had potential for amazing project), but hey - at least it gave us The Dark Mod!
Props for reminding me about Vietcong, wish it got same treatment as Mafia1 recently...
So serious question; Is it okay to add a melee weapon like a sword in a game that is all about melee combat that is useless at melee range?
I do agree with your points with Doom 3's shotgun from a game design point of view. However, I do feel that a lot of people think it's bad because shotguns are supposed to be good at longer ranges.
That perception, when it reveals itself around the time Doom 3 starts spawning enemies a bit farther from you, is what makes people dislike the Doom 3 shotgun. When they realize they barely do any damage to enemies if they fire from more than 5 feet.
I feel like, if Doom 3's shotgun was actually the Serious Sam 3 sledgehammer, people wouldn't have an issue with it. Because we know sledgehammers are good at short range.
"The Half Lofe era" I miss this era of FPS games soooooooo much. I miss when different weapons made a difference, when youd switch weapons based on circumstances, when fighting enemies required some thought, when story was an addition to gameplay rather than the sole focus, when open world and RPG elements werent forced into every single game.... so sad what shooters have become
Also the shotgun "close quarters" complaint applies to Doom 1 and 2 as well. The spread makes it less useful for ranged enemies than the pistol or chaingun... it wasnt a sudden thing that popped up on Doom 3.
When Halo made you carry only two guns, it was to force you to be versatile and learn the sandbox. Weapons had alternate uses, but weren't universally useful. You might need to approach a fight differently if you don't have weapons good for it.
Duke Nukem Forever did it because Halo did it, not understanding WHY.
@dj Kplus Out in the industry I search, out in the industry I find the new Dooms, Wolfensteins, and indie games. Do I see the majority of FPS games following the 90s-2000s design fundamentals? Hmm, my non-narrow search function and brain processing have not picked up anything else. All this man sees is a Far Cry here, an Apex there.
Imagine being you who makes assumptions about people based on a statement made that didn't harm a soul. Imagine throwing negativity for literally no reason at all. If I have narrow focus you have the most of closed minds and have probably never taken psychadelics, sir/madam. Cry me a river for not mentioning two games.
@@TheT3rr0rMaskAlso the shotgun 'close quarters' complaint applies to Doom 1 and 2 as well"
Did you even use the shotguns from those games!? At least the shotguns there can reliably kill common enemies without having to shove the barrel down their throats.
Or is your aiming so bad, you would shoot at a big target with a shotgun and somehow still miss.
Oooooh this one's gonna be hot!
Btw i still don't know why the *hell* they removed Trent Reznor's sound effects. Was there a legal issue or was he just busy?
I prefer the base doom 3 sound effects, it sounds more natural and organic to the game. Trents sound effects sounded like placeholders that came out of a soundpack that wasn't mixed well with the ambient level of the game
People may call me a clown for this but I really enjoyed playing the bfg edition and it’s expansions as well.
More so because I could finally play Doom 3 on a ps5 which was great.
i agree in almost everything, except that the came did scare me a lot back when released when i was 14.
Thanks for this video, i'm tired of people talking trash about Doom 3 for little reason.
The shotgun from Doom 2016 and Eternal also have a very big spread, they wouldn't be as useful if it they didn't had alt fires
the alt fire seens like an good reason for the player to use it after getting the ssg, since, just like 3 and unlike classic, they lack infinite range, so you won't be swiching back to the normal shotgun for distant enemies
You're kidding, right?
The spreads not so bad to the point pellets are hitting the floor and ceiling, you can actually engage beyond point blank.
@@raptordan166 In Doom 2016 the environments are much larger and engagement range is much farther than Doom 3 so weapons have to be balanced as such. A more accurate shotgun would either be too good or overshadow the machine gun.
@@eclipse9304 well as it is now, even the little #4 machinegun outshines the shotgun. The shotguns range is too short.
i always considered that since id software games at the time were always built specifically to show off the new engine, it made total sense that Doom 3 ended up the way it did. i like Doom 3, but i am glad they didn't stick with that horror style in future games. and really glad they scrapped the Doom 4 that was almost gonna be like a linear cinematic and scripted Call of Duty campaign. i like playing CoD campaigns, exactly once, then i will never touch them again. that style of game would just be a terrible fit for Doom.
Doom 3 is my favorite doom game and this is nice seeing a doom 3 defender on UA-cam
I think that if the shotgun had extended range, in a game where everything is extremely claustrophobic, there would be zero reason to use any of the other weapons. Why use anything else when you have a shotgun which can instakill any enemy from anywhere in the room?
Exactly, it'd be op other wise
It's like doom eternal, the devs made the combat balanced in a way that you have to use your entire arsenal, your mobility, that's the fun zone. But people just want an excuse to use only a couple of weapons and for the game to get extremely repetitive because that's the easy and lazy option
This is a valid point. It just, "feels," really off when you're playing, if you expect the shotgun to behave like, well, a shotgun, instead of it cosplaying as Hicks's Ithica.
@@churchtriv4150 Tbh the only thing i don't like about the game is it forcing you to use all the guns
How about a shotgun which can do decent damage from not-quite-anywhere in the room, in addition to another shotgun which can instakill at sneezing distance?
The idea that shotguns are only useful at close range is a myth that video games and movies have tatooed in our minds.
Shotguns in real life work at different ranges and rather effectively.
Having that said, its a powerful weapon that should kill almost anything with a single shot. I know its a videogame but those zombies and first soldiers you encounter in Doom 3 should get destroyed with a single shell and they are not.
Dooms 3 shotgun is a joke.
Real life is literally irrelevant. This is a video game where you are fighting demons on mars, not a tactical shooter.. Weapon stats are entirely based on what is needed for the game's balance. The doom 3 shotgun absolutely one shots zombies. It can even one shot revenants. You're using it wrong.
Also Doom 3's main theme was AMAZING.
I love the mod that allows you to duel wield the pistol, and I like shotgun juking the imps its SO FUN imo. Got so many memories of weaving those fireballs.
the Arch Vile and Chaingunners can be dangerous though, and you need to be cautious with the hitscan enemies
Before watching the video i can say: "It's worse than you think"
but it's not bad...
@@dishshammy6985 It's not too good either.
@@onutrof1157 you have a point.
I will never take a sip out of you ever again, trusty Vault 13 Canteen. You betrayed me.
@@dishshammy6985 If you have played a game 500 times of course its usable, but go and boot up Doom 3 stand 1m away from a wall and watch the spread of the thing. I can beat RE4 with the starting Handgun, but that doesnt mean its good.
I'll be totally honest, I never considered that having to be in touching distance to use the Doom 3 shotgun was the whole point. I'm actually kind of on-board with it as a gameplay mechanic: having to go full "shotgun to face". It fits Doom 3's more claustrophobic take on the FPS formula. I can't say I prefer it over the rest of the series' run and gun approach, but I'm on-board with it.
See, the thing is, "full shotgun to face" gameplay has always had a place in Doom combat ever since the second game; that's what the _Super Shotgun_ is intended for. The problem with Doom 3 tailoring its Shotgun to do the Super Shotgun's job, is that it leaves no gun to do the Shotgun's job.
I really do love Doom 3, it intruduced me to the doom franchise and had a huge impact on me (we didnt had a computer and I played it on a friends pc).
It made me check out Doom 1 and 2, therefore intruduced me to oldschool shooters and made me the oldschool loving nerd I am today.
So I know I'm going to get yelled at for this, but I would just go through the game with the SMG, the switch to the chaingun when I got it and the the plasma rifle so I barely used the shotgun
Doom 3 shotgun is more of framing problem then performace. Weapon that is framed as ranged weapon (by virtue of being a gun) acts more like melee with extended range. No one complains that Halo energy sword has short range, because it is framed as melee weapon.
Lets rename it to Ballistic Punch Stick.
4:25 "I think the Doom3 engine aged a little better than Source, because its (graphically) modable"
I get where you come from, but: Sir are you familiar with Titanfall?
Titanfall changed the source engine so much that it's not the raw source engine any more. That doesn't really count.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon I think back in 2004 you are probably right and graphics (especially lighting) were and will be the thing Doom 3 is know for. But Source and GldSource are infamous for their modability.
if only the models looked good when not half hidden in shadow...
I am strictly speaking about graphics mods, I've covered endless source mods on this channel, trust me I'm aware. Doom 3 how ever can be modded graphically to an extent that og source can not.
I think the reason people think this shotgun sucks is because they treat the gunplay in this game like how theyd treat it in Doom 1993 or 2016, when this game is a different beast altogether
I didn't even know that it was a subject of controversy. I always thought it was easy to learn the shotguns mechanics and with the array of weapons you get its perfectly suited for its role, dealing high damage when you are being swarmed by enemies or just dispatching enemies at a faster rate than other weapons. Same people saying its damage and spread is random would probably call it over powered if it shot across the room with a perfect spread. I think the game-play loop around using it is actually relatively fun taking into account the movement and dodging. My favorite Doom game but it's seriously lacking some Mick Gordon soundtrack, the menu screen music is pretty sweet though. I would just love a return to this style just for one spin off or something, just with a bit more difficulty or threatening enemies, I feel like the atmosphere it created was far greater where Doom 2016 and eternal feel really gamey. I will admit it did scare me when I was a kid but only in terms of jump scares which I didn't know at the time were the cheapest form of scares.
yeah, the jumpscares are kinda bad, some even felt funny for me
See, this is why weapon balancing is more than just the weapon's stats in a vacuum. Yes the shotgun's range might be trash but the game obviously takes place in mostly close distances so you'll almost always be in range for it to be effective. Look at FEAR's shotgun, considered to be pretty damn good, and you'll notice that it has rather poor range if you try to use it in the few longer range levels, but because most of the game is close quarters this isn't much of an issue since 9/10 times you're close enough to the enemy to vaporize them with one blast. This is also why military sims' shotguns have a lot of range because, aside from the focus on realism, the game expects you to have encounters from longer distances and it needs shotguns to be viable alongside the rest of the weapons.
In short, the thing melts enemies in one shot consistently. It's doing its job just fine.
I'm pretty sure Fear shotgun is affective at mid-close range where in Doom 3 you have to shove it into the enemies nose to be effective
Thats a really long cope post for such a whack shotgun
@@Hououin818 Like I said, most of Doom 3 is "enemies' nose" distance so it doesn't matter. FEAR is a bit bigger, so the longer reach shotgun is more necessary.
@@carcosian You're right about the enemies distance if we're talking about the zombie, those spider thingy or when the game spawn enemies right in front of you that is
Are you planning on reviewing the original 3 cod games? And more or less, cod 4 as well?
I didn’t realise people thought Doom 3’s shotgun was bad. I only got into Doom 3 last year, and I thought it was pretty good. It was the first time I had played a Doom game however, so I didn’t have any experience with the previous game’s shotguns.
You look at the shotgun and the barrel is short and massive, almost like a blunderbuss. The shot shells are normal 12 gauge, but the end of the barrel is like 2 inches in diameter (which might explain the crap range and wide spread). Racking the shotgun sounds fine. Given the bulky look, I wouldn't expect a crisp "click-clack". It looks like a piece of industrial equipment, it's huge and heavy. The actual *boom* is the crap part. The shorter a barrel on a gun is, it gets significantly louder. Shoot a .44 snub nose and compare it to a 6-inch barrel. Same with AR's or shottys. In a closed space, this thing should sound like an explosion, like a grenade going off. I always thought it was fun, but didn't sound as powerful as it was, and oftentimes if the sound is underwhelming, its a pretty big bummer.
Man I never had a pc for gaming so Doom 3 on the original Xbox was my first Doom experience and I still love it. I think it's a great, although now I can definitely see why old-school Doom fans wouldn't have liked the direction it took. Also love that theme song.
the theme is like the only music in the game that people relember
It's not hard to understand why many consider this to be a bad shotgun. In Doom before 3, it's shotgun worked pretty well on mid distances and somewhat on long distances. Quake 1 shotgun was pretty accurate on every distance. Same goes for Quake 2 shotgun. And then we have Doom 3 shotgun. For me it is the best shotgun in gaming followed by first F.E.A.R.s shotgun and while I missed double barrel shotgun, it's inclusion in RoE made me realize there was no need for such overkill.
You know what never gets talked about in reference to Doom 3. The multiplayer. I had a BLAST playing this back in the day.
I remember modding my geforce 4 so I could get the inactive vertex shades to work, just so I can see them reflection shared. Those were the days.
Doom 3 is what got me into the doom franchise. I wouldnt of went back to become inlove with doom 2 and brutal doom if it wasnt for doom 3
Even playing the game for the first time back in 2016, it never crossed me that the shotgun was bad. It just came to me naturally that I had to close the gap.
I play doom 3 VR with basicly two weapons. The machine gun and the shotgun. Soft them up with the machine gun from afar and finnish them up close and personal. I might sometime bring up the BFG to dispose a archvile in a timely fashion but those two are my main go to guns. Love them.
Casual players will try to shoot with an shotgun from 20 meters away and expecting to be 1 shoot kill... they actualy do it in Call of duty and Battlefield...
I've never hated this shotgun, but RoE's Super Shotgun is awesome. Last time i played the game (it was the bfg version) i spawned the Super Shotgun on Doom 3 with the console and it was really fun
Doom 3 is my favorite Doom game, same as you. Not sure why people thought the shotgun is bad, it was one of the most reliable weapons in the game. My favorite was the plasma gun because...you know, cool, futuristic weapons in a sci-fi setting (and the BFG too, was among my favorites), but the shotgun is what you want in tight corridors where enemies jump right at your face.
I was barely in high school when Doom 3 came out and I played it, it was one of my first few games (Aliens versus Predator Gold Edition and Aliens versus Predator 2 being before Doom 3), and 4 years later, Dead Space came out! What a time. Perhaps I didn't get the nostalgia and love for the first few Doom games from the 1990s because I didn't play them back then, but Doom 3 always held a special place in my heart and probably left such a deep impression that I usually only play sci-fi horror games with awesome atmosphere now. Thank you, Motive, for Dead Space Remake.
How dare you have a sponsor that captures my interest
I still argue that if you replace the demons in this game with xenomorphs you have what Colonial Marines should have been.
Jarek get the salami ready because I'm going to drop a hot take.
I fully understand that the Doom 3's shotgun has near 0 range because the game is intentionally designed to be claustrophobic, I get that making it the staple weapon it is in every other Doom game wouldn't work because the environments the game takes place in are literally what real shotguns were designed for (aside from bird hunting) and thus would render the other weapons pointless in most situations. These are perfectly valid points and the design decisions make sense.
The thing is, I hate the game design which necessitated these design choices and I think they make Doom 3 a worse game than it needed to be. The slow pace of the game, from the movement speed to the enemy attacks just make everything feel sluggish. I don't think Doom needs to be Doom Eternal zoopin' around the maps at 40 miles per hour to work, a slower, more methodical Doom could work, I just think they tuned it way too far. Combine that with the shotgun's range being basically all or nothing means you have to jam the gun where the salami goes to do consistent damage, where beyond that you can sometimes get a kill or sometimes do basically nothing, if the gun had a more gradual fall off in its effectiveness people wouldn't consider it to be inconsistent. Doom 3 isn't a bad game, and objectively the shotgun isn't bad either, but neither of them are for me and I think the game would have been better received if it wasn't Doom 3, going from Doom to Doom 2 was just "Doom, but more", where Doom 2 to Doom 3 was "Doom, but different". Doom 3's shotgun makes perfect sense in the context of Doom 3's design, but if you don't like doom 3's design you probably won't like the Doom 3 shotgun, and I certainly don't.
I will give it this, the Doom 3's tiny range makes more sense design-wise than the Halo 2 shotgun. That was a game with much more open environment and the shotgun's range was shorter than the melee attack.
Halo 2's shotgun makes sense. The shotgun's entire purpose was to counter melee and sword attacks. It's very good at doing that. It'd be op if any stronger and throw weapon balance out of whack.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon I was more talking singleplayer balance TBH, melee enemies/sword attacks are so rare in singleplayer that it's rarely worth grabbing. Especially since most of the times you're against the Flood, the one enemy the shotgun is greatly useful for, you don't even get access to the shotgun at all.
For multiplayer though you are right, I still think it could have more range and be fine. Halo 3 and Reach had batter range on the shotgun, but they also had the maulers which were essentially the Halo 2 shotgun as a pistol. So you're not wrong.
@Bennett Fender This is incorrect. The Halo 2 shotgun CAN one hit kill. The one hit kill range is just outside both melee and sword lunch range. That's the entire point of the shotgun. Making it any stronger would mess with that balance.
Just beat Doom 3 last night. I give it an 8.5/10. The shotgun was actually one of my favorite weapons. I really loved the assault rifle.
Doom 3 is only scary on nightmare difficulty because every enemy has the potential to one hit you.
So i completely understand how you feel about Liking Doom 3 the most, but it not being objectively the best. For me it's me loving Dead Space 3, but also being painfully aware that Dead Space 1 and 2 are objectively better games. Just something about Dead Space 3 keeps me wanting to come back
Thanks for the mod recommendations!
I think what jaded people on the shotgun is that it doesn't do enough damage mid-range as compared to Doom 1 and 2. The spread is ridiculously wide but I like to think that was done to make things that little bit more tense.
My problem with DOOM 3 is that getting the Soul Cube destroys what little difficulty the game has. Sure it takes 5 kills but I can just dodge the heavy guys, kill their underlings, and then soul cube the big guy and get a health refill. And you've got the BFG if things get really dicey.
Running out of sprint while having shotgun equipped is a real pacebreaker. I'd like the shotgun way more with infinite sprint. Shove that Salami Daddy Jarek.
i played basically the entire game with my finger on sprint and it still felt kinda slow some times
Dude it's not a pacebreaker, it's just the game mechanics getting you to not spam the sprint and using it wisely.
@@churchtriv4150 it's like Doom 3 developers forgot they weren't making the SuperShotgun when they made the shotgun
Day 1 of waiting for Jarek going to inspect the whole Killzone Franchise.
He already did that
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ua-cam.com/video/LIHLGkaGYvc/v-deo.html
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@@bamboozlednoodle6513 thanks,i didn't found earlier.
There's a search option right on my channel and people still ask for videos I've already made.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Thanks ya.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Dude,by the way,can i edit subtitles for one of your videos?
Day One of asking Jerek to look at the Project Nexus demo and see if it's got any potential
The plasma gun (reload) and the BFG had great sounds. Not to mention the super shotgun.
In Doom 3, the Shotgun is a deadly enough short-range weapon that the Super Shotgun is essentially a slower version of it.
Yeah, agreed with a lot of this - Doom 3 can startle & unsettle, sure, but so can a hedghog when you're not used to the noise they can make. A landmark for being the first spiritual remake of a classic game, although on PC we got spoiled HARD in 2004 for damned good if not landmark releases, but that might just be my nostalgia projecting again
I was scared of doom 3, I was young enough for it to freak me the crap out
Nice to hear the term Spunk-Gargle-Wee-Wee outside of Zero Punctuation :)
It's always curious to me when people say something is "objectively good". I believe there are objectively good aspects like the technical aspects for example. But I'm still curious how that statement is made and by whom
In this case I say objectively good as the game is fundamentally sound in its goal to create a dark, claustrophobic atmosphere and work gameplay around that. It was also a massive leap forward for its time.
@@DeltaAssaultGaming nah, people use this phrase wtong all the time to try and sound like they know what they are talking about
The "meaning" of art is subjective, not the quality
Doom 3 is objectively a good game, just because it's good doesn't mean it then needs to be liked as then the meaning is subjective
The Godfather is objectively a good movie, but someone can say they don't like it because the connection (meaning) to it isn't there
@@DeltaAssaultGaming yeah no f*ck that post modern thing, games can be objectively good and specially when you break things down. Doom 3 for example has an objectively good lighting system, specially when you account for its age.
It's all about the game's intent and how close it is to reach that point.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon okay, thanks for the short but good explanation!
You might be the first guy ever who likes this shotgun. I actually speedrun the game and half the run is shotgun kills. It is so satisfying to delete imps with it. I've always had a soft spot for Doom 3 in my heart and always will.
LOL i was kidding at the stream when i said that would end up being an analysis XDD
Also great video, one day someone shall find how the armor works tho
Video idea: how GOOD is the halo 1 combat evolved shotgun really?
@@HelghastStalker L I B R A R Y
I loved Doom 3 back in the day and revisit it every year. It's one of my all time favorite games and Doom 3 is my fave Doom game too. And I never saw anything wrong with the shotgun.
Aesthetically, the DOOM 3 shotgun looks like it was made by Hi-Point. Not saying whether that's a positive or a negative, that's just what it looks like to me.
Its a negative bro haha. Very astute observation btw. It performs like a hi-point as well
About shotgun
Pros:
Can 1 hit if near enemy very close
For some enemy
Reload fast
Cons:
Bad spread
Logic teach us reload shotgun in
1 12 Gauge will +2 in clip
To me, doom 3 is more of a side story then an actual doom game with doom guy in it, I see it more of like half life op where we see another side of the story though the usc
I loved how the shotgun looked tbh, I liked how it looked more than the shotgun in F.E.A.R. Actually
to be honest, i didn't relembed it existed on RoE after taking the super shotgun, specially since unlike classic, where you can use the normal shotgun for long range enemies, you can't do with in 3. 2016 and eternal at least gave the secondary fire to make the basic shotgun still usefull after getting the super shotgun
civvie fans on their way to circlejerk that any shotgun that isn't a 2d sprite on a fake 3d plane is bad
didn't he said halo's shotgun is great?
@@marrvynswillames4975 I honestly don't remember him ever playing halo
@@nopls858 he didn't, but in his Postal 3 video he talks about the shitty shotgun on that game and say
"I fucking hate Halo, but Halo had an good shotgun, not like this shit"
making the sounds that the player controls weaker is a good idea and makes the player feel weaker during a spooky game
sound is powerful
When the game is a shooter this is a REALLY bad idea. The guns need to sound as powerful as they are functional in game. All the guns sound weaker than how they function.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon i'm sorry for looking at it in an FPS HORROR way instead of DOOM 3, doom 3 now i see is it's own style of game
After all these years, I'm glad that i finally heard someone else than me say that DOOM 3 is their favourite DOOM game
Unfortunately, Doom Eternal has sort of taken over that top spot. I still really like Doom 3 though.
@@Jarekthegamingdragon Have yet to play that one, so mine might change too. But I just can't help but love these oddball kinda games.