You forgot in S1 Moraine & Egwene have a discussion on the 3 oaths. ( I think of them as Asimov's 3 Laws of Robotics). She can't lie, use The Power to make weapons of war, and cannot harm a fellow Aes Sedai and warder, except to save her own life. Otherwise you both raised some interesting points. Thanks
funny I've always seen a real correlation to the 3 laws of Robotics too! I'm sure that was a big influence for RJ. I think we kind of talked about that discussion back at S1 but it is good to bring that around again - I'm going to tuck that in my bag for the next time Aes Sedai truth and lies comes up - thanks!
About Aes Sedai not able to lie to others but "able to lie to themselves". I think of it more like any person being able to lie to themselves, convincing themself that they are happy with something or enjoy something. A person in a bit of a toxic relationship could do mental gymnasitcs convincing themself that they are still better off in that relationship than being single (or being with someone else). They could possibly lie to themself saying that what they get is worth the sacrifice. Maybe Liandrin is hinting that despit her endless love for her dying son, maybe it was not worth selling her soul to the Dark One, knowing that he's stuck in prolonged torment and sickness. Maybe she thought it ment he'd be aging the same rate as her, still living gracefully, but instead she has to see him suffer. Was it worth becoming an agent of the Dark to keep her son alive in that state?
Great insight - thanks for wording this so well. We are often told that being Aes Sedai doesn't change the fact you are a person with flaws, so you are so right. I also get the feeling that with time Liandrin began to regret her choices because it left her son suffering. that law of unintended consequences!
About Lanfear bringing Rand to the cliffside cottage. Spoiler free but kinda hinges on already knowing that Selene is Lanfear and a Forsaken. I think it's partly as you mentioned that it would feel like home for him. But it is also to give the Myrdraal an opening to attack. If they'd still been in the town (and remember Rand had already burned down her Inn so they can't stay there) then the Myrdraal would have had a harder time sneaking in to attack, and even though they can teleport through shadows (we see them do that while fighting Lan in S2 Ep1) suddenly have everyone in the Foregate aware that there's Shadowspawn lurking in the city would cause a massive ruckus and possibly make people arm themselves. There would also be no guards to help them out in the mountains. Instead Rand is now alone with Lanfear out in the mountains where no one can see them. Rand's instinct will be to defend her and he's not good enough with a sword when even Lan (even though he fought two at the same time) would have been a gonner. So he would probably have to Channel, and even if he was not trained enough to sieze Saidin at will he would probably end up doing it by instinct, since we heard Moiraine tell the story in S1 Ep8 about the Aes Sedai who came to her room one night and lashed her with weaves until she instinctively grabbed the One Power to stop it. And if Rand had not been able to defeat the Myrdraal, Lanfear can Channel as well, and ince Men cannot see women channel she'd be able to do a lot of stuff to it while making it seem like an accident. Maybe push the Myrdraal into Rand's sword, maybe make it trip on a rock. Or outright order it to flee the scene (since she's a Forsaken, one of the top ranked among the Dark One's army). So by arranging the attack in an area where no one would be able to help, where no one could help see if Rand decided to Channel (and no Aes Sedai to sense if Lanfear herself did something) it would make Rand feel safe to Channel. If he channeled she could be his confidant and hold a massive secret of his. She'd litterally hold his life in her hands. Tell anyone he can channel and the Reds would come swopping down! She could also nudge and push him in a direction even further away from his friends and further manipulate him into becoming her partner.
wow, this is brilliant - Cathy is coming over this Monday to watch the next episodes, I'm going to read this to her! terrific lot of critical thinking here I love it
This is so lovely, thank you both 🙏
So glad you enjoyed it. I love sinking into WoT with Cathy and bringing it to others to enjoy too.
Oh my, I think s2ep4 was the one that came out just before MCon23. SO nice to hear your thoughts on it :)
really happy you enjoyed this - Cathy is so invested in the show even if life keeps preventing us getting together as often as we want to!
You forgot in S1 Moraine & Egwene have a discussion on the 3 oaths. ( I think of them as Asimov's 3 Laws of Robotics). She can't lie, use The Power to make weapons of war, and cannot harm a fellow Aes Sedai and warder, except to save her own life. Otherwise you both raised some interesting points. Thanks
funny I've always seen a real correlation to the 3 laws of Robotics too! I'm sure that was a big influence for RJ.
I think we kind of talked about that discussion back at S1 but it is good to bring that around again - I'm going to tuck that in my bag for the next time Aes Sedai truth and lies comes up - thanks!
About Aes Sedai not able to lie to others but "able to lie to themselves".
I think of it more like any person being able to lie to themselves, convincing themself that they are happy with something or enjoy something. A person in a bit of a toxic relationship could do mental gymnasitcs convincing themself that they are still better off in that relationship than being single (or being with someone else). They could possibly lie to themself saying that what they get is worth the sacrifice.
Maybe Liandrin is hinting that despit her endless love for her dying son, maybe it was not worth selling her soul to the Dark One, knowing that he's stuck in prolonged torment and sickness. Maybe she thought it ment he'd be aging the same rate as her, still living gracefully, but instead she has to see him suffer. Was it worth becoming an agent of the Dark to keep her son alive in that state?
Great insight - thanks for wording this so well.
We are often told that being Aes Sedai doesn't change the fact you are a person with flaws, so you are so right. I also get the feeling that with time Liandrin began to regret her choices because it left her son suffering.
that law of unintended consequences!
About Lanfear bringing Rand to the cliffside cottage.
Spoiler free but kinda hinges on already knowing that Selene is Lanfear and a Forsaken.
I think it's partly as you mentioned that it would feel like home for him.
But it is also to give the Myrdraal an opening to attack. If they'd still been in the town (and remember Rand had already burned down her Inn so they can't stay there) then the Myrdraal would have had a harder time sneaking in to attack, and even though they can teleport through shadows (we see them do that while fighting Lan in S2 Ep1) suddenly have everyone in the Foregate aware that there's Shadowspawn lurking in the city would cause a massive ruckus and possibly make people arm themselves. There would also be no guards to help them out in the mountains.
Instead Rand is now alone with Lanfear out in the mountains where no one can see them. Rand's instinct will be to defend her and he's not good enough with a sword when even Lan (even though he fought two at the same time) would have been a gonner. So he would probably have to Channel, and even if he was not trained enough to sieze Saidin at will he would probably end up doing it by instinct, since we heard Moiraine tell the story in S1 Ep8 about the Aes Sedai who came to her room one night and lashed her with weaves until she instinctively grabbed the One Power to stop it.
And if Rand had not been able to defeat the Myrdraal, Lanfear can Channel as well, and ince Men cannot see women channel she'd be able to do a lot of stuff to it while making it seem like an accident. Maybe push the Myrdraal into Rand's sword, maybe make it trip on a rock. Or outright order it to flee the scene (since she's a Forsaken, one of the top ranked among the Dark One's army).
So by arranging the attack in an area where no one would be able to help, where no one could help see if Rand decided to Channel (and no Aes Sedai to sense if Lanfear herself did something) it would make Rand feel safe to Channel. If he channeled she could be his confidant and hold a massive secret of his. She'd litterally hold his life in her hands. Tell anyone he can channel and the Reds would come swopping down! She could also nudge and push him in a direction even further away from his friends and further manipulate him into becoming her partner.
wow, this is brilliant - Cathy is coming over this Monday to watch the next episodes, I'm going to read this to her! terrific lot of critical thinking here I love it