What Are the Nameless Things of Moria - Cryptids of Middle-Earth
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- The nameless things are among the most mysterious of all of the cryptids within Tolkien’s Legendarium. These ancient beasts gnaw on the very roots of the mountains and can count themselves among the few beings who are older than time. Amidst the shadow and stone many questions linger.
Today we continue my new video series titled “Cryptids of Middle Earth” where we unveil the mysterious creatures and paranormal phenomena of Tolkien’s Legendarium.
Be sure to join the discussion in the comments as I always enjoy hearing your opinions and theories.
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Gandalf and the Balrog having a truce while fighting off horrors in a ancient Eldritch city is so metal.
You know you're scary af when a literal angel with a legendary sword and a fallen angel demon decide to work together to get the hell out of there
Cthulhu can beat up Sauron for his lunch money.
@@ravendelacour1917 Not really, no xD Sauron would squash Cthulhu like a bug
😀
@@IPushedGollum Cthulhu is destined to rule the world. Sauron got defeated by a hobbit.
Gandalf: "I've seen some serious amazing shit.....But I'm not telling!"
Dude, wtf.
Infohazard do not research
Forrealz. 😄
For real, his adventures in the dark deep would have been epic.
"Neigh lil' homie, for it would destory the vibe, and we will need our vibe unchecked for what lies ahead!"
Scumbag Gandalf
I forget where It was said but I remember something about the nameless things in regard to Morgoth. "They are like Morgoth (evil) but no OF Morgoth. Not of his kin." This indicated he did not create them but they are evil. Another passage says, "But they will not heed Morgoth. For all evil hates and they hated him to." This indicated Morgoth could not control them meaning they are not simple animals. I don't remember the quotes but there are other passaged warning to not try to describe them or talk to much about them because it attracts their attention. When Gandalf is describing what happened the sun actually gets dimmer. It is also mentioned they have their own machinations beyond the understanding of even Sauron.
These things are not animals. They are extremely powerful. Let them remain nameless.
It could be that the nameless draw power from merely being in the thoughts of others, which is why Gandalf refuses to speak of them at all, only enough to warn against probing further into their existence. Perhaps they were deliberately buried by a higher power so that others COULDN'T learn of them to even be able to think of them. Too powerful to truly destroy, like a fundamental force of nature, but one you could keep from becoming more powerful by simply hiding them from sentient beings.
The true irony being that they could never be fully forgotten because there are eternal beings who would remember them.
Gandalf: "so there's this huge-"
Sun: hides
Gandalf: "haha i slipped and needed weeks to get back up"
Sun: "aight aight, just be careful next time"
Maybe ungolianth was also one of the nameless as she too was always there and seperate from morgoth
@@flashotaku435 Not only that, she tried to EAT Morgoth, and it took 12 of his Balrogs to drive her off.
@@mj91212 only because morgoth was weakened though
Something I love about Tolkien was that he understood that mystery is what gives a fictional world it's wonder. If everything can be comprehensively understood, it makes the world smaller. Im gonna chop it up to we don't know and won't ever know and any attempt to theorize has zero basis in what we do know about the world.
“There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world…”
-Gandalf
@darkstar5681One of multiple things he was referencing. The context tells us the balrog wasn't the worst thing either.
@@jonnyd9351if Amazon wasn’t doing lotr or they’re horrid version of it, I’d love to see these things explored, it would be so amazing
They were even fouler. 💯💯👀🤮🤮🤮
He's talking about the balrog and goblins. These creatures aren't known to him until he went down there with the balrog.
@@GuyChooo oh, ok. 🤓
IMO, Eru accidently created the Nameless things, here's how. Eru needed to sing the Ainur. Like a conductor, he hummed to set the tone (and accidently created Tom). Then cleared his throat like we all do (creating the Nameless Things) and then sang the Ainur into being (on purpose).
Best theory so far (they are the proverbial flem)
And Ungoliant was created by the dissonant song by Melkor
I like this alot. In my understanding that Eluvitar’s thought created the Ainur, the nameless things are his subconscious thought, his shadow.
The problem with this theory is that Eru Illuvatar was Tolkien's version of the Judeo-Christian God. Therefore, as would align with Tolkien's own theological understanding, Eru is all knowing and all powerful and does not make mistakes.
Also, the Silmarillion tells us that Ungoliant was one of the Maiar who first followed Melkor but later went off on her own.
Probably the 'Residue' of the song or scrapped tones of a script, or misshapen forms of tone that's indiscernible.
olkien was a linguist. Language was so fundamental to him that he still said mass in Latin even after it started being held in English. Those things being nameless , in my estimation, would be a linguists way of making them utterly alien, irrational, incomprehensible. Eldritch horrors, not bound by the rules of reality, physics, nor are they part of Eru Iluvatars song. Maybe background noise.
Very true. Naming something makes it more understandable.
TBF, though, many of us still do Mass in Latin. 😉
Mass in Latin is normal 5:26 for catholics. It doesn't matter what language the Mass is, the universal nature of the Catholic Mass means thay I can be understood no .atter what language it is in.
@@SCHMALLZZZ You don't have a lot of idea about Catholics, do you?
"Language was so fundamental to him that he still said mass in Latin even after it started being held in English"
Errr..... Tolkien is NOT that old 🤣😂
Church services have been done in English since centuries ago under Elizabeth I 😅
Remnants of the void, perhaps?
I remember watching the first LOTR movie when i was a teen and Gandalf talking about the nameless things that existed before time. I was so peed off that he didnt go in-depth about what he said. over 15 years i now finally get the answer i have been craving for. Thank you for the insightful video
Isn't 15 years enough time to crack open some of Tolkien's writings and find out?
@oldsaddad7274 Listen, idk about the original poster but my brain is too adhd to sit down and read books.
I didnt know they excisted until recently,althought it was The Lord of the Rings 1.,2 and 3.I ordered the 2nd one since i read the first one before. Super ampt 😎@@oldsaddad7274
@@Foogi9000 fair enough
@@oldsaddad7274 I wish that the audiobooks had full male and female narration and with different voices. I feel like my brain could process that.
Finally, a video about them with well thought out theories
Thank you!
@@RealmsUnravelled i truly love the video. Thanks for responding too :)
The linguistic acuity of this is startling. Did you utilize a thesaurus for this? Excellent audio quality btw. What kind of mic/preamp/interface are you using? @@RealmsUnravelled
I know the two men never met personally but I always pictured the nameless things to be a kin to the elder things or shoegoths of Lovecraft. Strange, with many forms, and completely undescribable.
It sure sounds like it
It does seem like the author may have taken a bit of inspiration from writers of cosmic horror. Still, it’s hard for me to imagine Tolkien having any respect for Lovecraft. Why would a staunchly Christian, optimistic Englishman read the work of an atheistic, pessimistic-not to mention extremely racist-American?
@@ghostrights9314 like I said the two men never met, and it's likely Tolkien wasn't too familiar with Lovecraft's work. The closest I believe they got was Tolkien edited one of Lovecraft's short stories for a British magazine I believe. Though all your points about both men are very accurate.
@@redfireeverstar2651 Tolkien edited a Lovecraft story? I never knew that-interesting!
It would be interesting if Eru unknowingly created the nameless things. Specifically that they came into existence "on their own" while Eru was having doubts in his creations. Which is why they're underground, unseen and knawing away on middle earth's insides much the same way how doubts can.
I’m going with this theory
That's not possible considering Tolkien's theology and the fact that Eru is just another name for God who is All-knowing.
I like this theory
Eru has never had any doubts, it's why he confidently can say "shall prove but mine instrument" to the discord causing Melkor.
I've always been fascinated by the eldritch Nameless Things.
As someone who never got deep into Tolkien's works beside only watching the the movies, I really enjoy content like this that give me an insight into the world of his works.
Just read the books, guy. No one’s going to shoot you for reading books. Especially since these are the best of their kind. Your familiarity with the movies is admirable, and will stand you in good stead, guiding you through the complex world of his creation. I guarantee astonishment and awe.
If you ever decide to read the source... you're in for such a treat. There are a few books I've encountered that I would dearly love to be able to go back and experience again for the first time.
I did the same, these videos made me get audible and I listen to the audiobooks in the gym now. They’re good.
You can get the first book with the free trial by the way
@@paulprovenzano3755I’ve put much effort into watching 15-30 second clips and it’s taken a while but I’ve fully conditioned my attention spare right down to a hair width, and I’m not undoing all that hard work.
The Valar were his first thoughts, the Nameless Things were his first nightmares.
So Eru sleeps? 😂
@@ohishehdoubtful lol
Eru doesn't fear anything he is omnipotent and omnipresent he can create and destroy as he wishes he fears nothing
@@mohammedshaheen-bj9svok Eru, chill
@@mohammedshaheen-bj9sveru doesnt exist
I feel like anytime I watch a deep lore video about lotr I need an entire semester of history just to understand the context. Like wait who's that?? And when did this happen?? And what??? I still watch these types of videos anyhow lol great work
You know what? I'm converted. Your personal theory is mind blowing. I love the idea of an unseen, eldritch ecosystem right under our heroes' very noses.
I thought that this was the default assumption. Upon hearing them described for the first time, I had never even considered the possibility that it was a singular race of beings. I imagine them as primordial forms varying greatly in size and power. I'd assumed they would be suitable to inhabiting the depths of the earth, perhaps mimicking worms, eyeless serpents, eels, deep sea fish, burrowing insects, all kinds of unsettling creatures that would seem at home in caves. Perhaps some creatures are like the unsettling worms that grow in sewer pipes, a withering mass of hundreds of slimy, tentacle like worm creatures like an anemone that consume whatever putrid material they can, as well as any unfortunate passing life form that they can ensnare.
@@Kitkat-986 well put
I always likened the nameless things as creatures similar to Ungoliant. Created before arda, from beyond the void. Finding a place of their own beneath the shadows or in the deep.
One of my areas of study is Cave fungi, from that perspective I always liked to imagine the nameless things being fungal in origin. Fungi leave behind microborings in the substrates they inhabit, the tunnels Gandalf the White describes could easily be mega-borings left behind by a timless mega-mycelial network.
Giant hyhae being mistaken for tentacles, reaching out from the dark. Melting trespassers with sprayed acids & enzymes, absorbed & consumed. Leaving nothing but the unheard echos of their screams in the deeps.
I'm sure if Tolkien had been aware of fungal biology beyond mushrooms, he may have liked this idea.
I've always imagined them as a variety of different creatures forming a kind of unexplored ecosystem. Have you ever seen the terrible mass of worm type creatures that inhabit sewer pipes? It's quite a horrific sight, and the withering mass of tendrils doesn't seem so different from how the watcher in the water is described.
What a wonderful possibility! An entirely novel perspective on the Nameless Things.
Best narration on Tolkien subjects I’ve come across. Nailed the pronunciations the way Tolkien would’ve said them
You keep calling them evil and wicked, but do we know if they've done anything wrong? All we know is they're just chilling down there.
Gandalf called them old and foul which certainly doesn’t make them seem nice
Maybe they were just smelly?@@lucasmurphy740
@@lucasmurphy740I mean I say the same thing about onions but they didn’t do anything wrong
@@lucasmurphy740 No, what he actually said was "olden fowl". He found the world's oldest goose down there
It would be funny if they were good but misunderstood. Kind of the problem with Tolkien and older fantasy is it’s often a very based on appearance what a creatures moral alliance is ultimately. Things that look pretty are generally good and things that look scary are evil. The problem is that a lot of these things are subjective and in reality are not like that. I love Tolkien and series like Redwall but sometimes the ridged alignment is bothersome and hard not to subvert. Like as a biologist it’s not surprising Gandalf would have had a bad experience with the nameless things and vice versa he kind of fell into a whole ecosystem that was foreign to him that he was not adapted to.
"Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds, thou art drawn nearer to Manwë, thy friend, whom thou lovest.”
Wow, what an incredible quote.
After hearing about the Watcher in the Water again recently in another video, I had a disturbing realization/image come to mind.
Since it’s “tentacles” are described as having “fingered ends”… it could have hands… meaning they are fingers not tentacles. We all know humanoids have 20 digits combining fingers and toes… meaning the 21st appendage would be a male appendage…
The image of a humanoid male sitting at the bottom of the lake, with 21 appendages extending from the deep like long writhing roots to grab you is creepy af…
I really enjoyed this video, thank you for spending time putting it together. Looking forward to the next one!
Does anybody know if Tolkien ever read writings of H.P. Lovecraft? Might be just a coincidence, but nameless things and horrors in the deep gave me a lot of Lovecraft-vibes.
ua-cam.com/video/irgPdn9kmV8/v-deo.htmlsi=ppRIM5Q6FFFxOO76
Apparently, someone sent Tolkien one of Lovecraft's stories, and Tolkien disliked it. Probably because Lovecraft was too nihilistic for a religious man like Tolkien.
More like Dunsany
In my opinion, the Nameless things were born out of the discord of Melkor. During the time of conflicting melodies before Eru raises up the third theme, these creatures could have come into being as a result of the confusing/contradicting melodies. Melkor likely did not even know if their creation.
Eru allowed them to come into being, possibly to help guard against Melkor's meddling in the roots of the earth.
If Melkor or any other of the Ainur tried to get to the foundations of the earth, at the center of which is implied where the Flame Imperishable dwells, they would come across things more powerful than they were.
That’s pretty fucking solid theory dude like this one
I'm reading the books for the first time now, and I look forward to more of these videos. This was lovely!
The last words about the complex and rather endless ways of how the Nameless Things might be are so accurate AWESOME!!! Too much Lovecraftian-like cosmic-horror stuff to be ignored in all, werther were an Illuvatar side device thing, or actually indeed something that slipped on his own plot device and which we couldn´t actually trust more on him than just... on a dogmatic way just ... "because" and well that doesn´t set him good in all after all.
Neverthless I doubt that Gandalf would have wanted to left that knowledge be left away regardless on he getting to solve the main tasks against Sauron and Saruman before all, but... I totally doubt he go away without doing SOMETHING on those other enemies which lurked there eventhough they might take a lot to ever be glimpsed out, henceforth the last meeting with Tom Bombadill - himself a mystery too but on the good side of beings - makes better sense to have a word and a plan about it but all it´s left to Tom alone and well ... there goes another idea of why he might be an avatar part of Eru on Middle Earth himself too!
Dig the topic selection and the manner of delivery is top notch. Will be checking out more of your offerings mate... thanks for sharing.
As a lifelong Tolkien fan, this channel is a godsend!
Loving the imagery of these beasties used in this video.
I think its all AI
@@GoombahGoombahGoombah I was considering that in my mind. If true, at least the uncanniness of the AI works here. XD
I'm wondering if the first one was Jormungandr, I think that was the ocean in the background
@@MRDLT00 The pictures are AI. The script may be AI too, the voice reading it is also AI. I made videos like this before as well, you can shit out a video with so little effort and people will like it and It will also turn out some what good.
I did it with dinosaurs videos, because it is such a specific and small niche you will get viewers.
Have you done a background on Tom Bombadil and Gold Berry? This is the first time I have read the Silmarillion before reading Lord of the Rings rather then after and I kind of got the impression Tom might be an example of a great old spirits that existed before Arda much like Ungoliant's origin is kind of unexplained or an example of what Arda should have been if the song had gone uncorrupted and changed by Melkor and the other Ainur trying to drown the other out. So Tom very well could be one of the "nameless things" but a rare benevolent versus the evil ones we typically get to know throughout the rest of the series.
So many interpretations, coming from so many other world views and different understandings of this work, only prove that Tolkien and his universe are brilliant.
Great video. This food for world building thought may be one of the best things Tolkien gave us in all of his writing even though it was just a few passages. I imagine Gary Gygax reading those and deciding Dungerons and Dragons had to have an underdark.
I am re-listening to the audiobooks of the Lord of the Rings. I finished the section on the entrance into Moria just the other night. Thank you for your videos. I look forward to more.
Hey, check out Phil dragash if you ever get the chance. He voices the characters and adds the soundtrack to the books. Not to mention ambient sounds of nature and footsteps etc.
Really love these videos. Would love to watch/listen to them with some quiet "Middle Earth" style music in the background
Same
You have an amazing speaking voice. I'm glad I found this channel today, because you now have another subscriber.
My idea of the nameless things has to do with Ungoliant. The same way she fell from the stars onto the upper side of the flat Arda, the nameless things landed on the dark side of Arda. In my mind they are beings of the same origin, or at least similar. On the light side of Arda there was forces that would keep the spaceborn creatures in check, but on the dark side they could breed and spread uncontrollably. Then, when Arda became a spherical world, the nameless things were engulfed and surrounded by the world, where they eat at the stone, trying to make their way back to the surface.
I’ve come to the theory that Ungoliant was initially one of the nameless things as it was said she descended from the darkness that surrounded Ea (the universe) and took form of a giant spider. As she is essentially the personification of the absence of light and the ever hungry nature of the void, and also described as a primordial, I’m on the fence of Eru created her or not. I’m torn between her and the other nameless things already dwelling within the darkness of before creation, beings of primordial darkness as we knew that had she succeeded, she would have consumed Melkor and the Silmaril’s had the Balrogs not come to his rescue. But I could also see her being a part of Eru’s design, we can’t really know Eru’s true plans or even his reasons, as he’s the creator and not even Melkor knew his true plans. Either way, Ungoliant was powerful enough that she could leave the Valar in disarray with a miasma of darkness so truly dark that even they couldn’t stop her from consuming the trees of light
Though we may speculate like hell since there is lack of explanation about these creatures; the most valid hypothesis for me is that these createres were formed as a result of very first dissonannce in Ainulindale. The moment Melkor challenged others, irregularities start to happen during creation and it might as well have caused those things to be formed. The fact that they are pretty twisted, and they are referred as ''namesless'' which points the lack of description sound like they are unwanted results of creation dissonance. My second hypothesis would be they are the evolved or adapted (twisted) versions of some very old beings.
they're one of those things that you want to know more but are in a way terrifying that you don't want to know more
One of my favourite Middle Earth cannon videos yet!
I am glad to see you came to a similar theory as I have held on the nameless things being an entire ecosystem of darkness dwelling creatures. Much like you may find in the mariana trench and under the ocean caverns of our world where we will see fish and other odd creatures that often look terrifying due to them surviving without any sunlight. I think this also shows Tolkein was just as wise on the real nature in our world as in a fantasy world and how things the thrive in darkness often scare us. I know most deep seas creatures look scary to me so only makes sense in middle earth would exist monstrously looking deep dwellers like exist in the deepest parts of our world
By far the best description of the nameless things ive heard .
The great eagles, Ents and Entwives, Tom, Goldberry, River-woman etc. They could all be examples of spirits that appeared with Ëa and Arda. They were simply created by Eru, perhaps at the request of the Ainur themselves in the Ainulindalë. I don't believe that Melkor consciously thought about the Nameless Things, he just put a lot of problems in his dissonances that ended up, through Eru, giving rise to these spirits. The Silmarillion makes it very clear that Sauron knew and participated to an indefinite degree in everything Morgoth did in Arda.
Now about the idea that "They are beings that were not created by Eru and always existed in the eternal void" is simply wrong. Tolkien makes it very clear that Eru was the only noncreated eternal entity, the rest were created. He also reinforces this due to Melkor traveling and stayed alone in the Eternal Void. Furthermore, the very concept of an eternal inhabited Void is paradoxical.
I like the idea of these creatures being diverse, meaning, each of them have different characteristics like "slug like, octupus like, and scaley like" from one another instead of being a single species.
This is probably as close as Tolkien’s writing gets to being similar to HP Lovecraft’s writing.
new lore channel is cooking🔥
Great video mate. Thanks.
One of the spookiest things about the Nameless Things to me is that Gandalf refused to describe them so it wouldn't "darken the light of day." Whatever he saw down there was so awful and wrong that he knew that no one would ever be able to live peacefully again if knowledge of them got out.
Did Tolkien have any thoughts regarding H.P. Lovecraft? Just throwing that out there.
Apparently he did not read his works, despite being a contemporary. However, they were both influenced by the same authors.
I like the idea that before time both Eru and the nameless things existed. The nameless things “lived” in the void before creation, and they want to return.
I've watched a few vids on the nameless things and this was definitely one of the more thought out and sourced ones, and i think the others were very much so as well!
I’m sure someone has already said this but it’s worth considering that Tolkien was a Catholic so would have been aware of biblical stories. In the book of Job, God decides to test a man to see if he remains faithful. When the man eventually challenges God (after many disasters befall him), God shows him a “Behemoth” - a monstrous chaos creature to whom “the mountains yield produce”.
The point of that story in Job is that humans can’t fathom the work of God, and in much the same way Gandalf couldn’t fathom the work of Eru. It’s good stuff by Tolkien.
Bros got that perfect narrator voice like
I’m falling asleep but in a good way lmao
I personally think that the nameless things are almost lovecraftian entities that crawled in the unshaped universe, before even Eru came to be. I like to think they are cosmic beings that can not be destroyed by anyone
Yyyyup. Found who I'm falling asleep to now.
The comparison to Ungoliant is apt - a dark thing that predates Melkor's entry into Arda over which he does not have direct control. I always thought the nameless things came from the first time Melkor caused the music of the Inur to become discordant. The result was beyond even Melkor's understanding even as he fulfilled Eru's plan.
I sometimes subscribe to the idea that they preceded even the Ainur. Perhaps they remained of a previous creation. I also believe that Tom Bombadil falls into the same category, although on the side favoring light over dark.
There is also the possibility that they were a product of the earliest discord in the song. Again, I would place Bombadil in that same group, although not one of the darker beings.
In total, it all sounds very lovecraftian:)
Remember fighting these dudes in Lord of the Rings Online. They're in the lowest parts of Moria and really creepy. Mentioned several times after in lore, as well.
The Nameless are the children of primordial chaos. Iluvatar is orchestration, the balance of stagnant and chaos. A True Neutral god. They chew at reality, to return it to chaos. As for the Watcher, it exudes this, as a form of consumption.
Knowing Tolkien's knowledge and inspiration taken from Norse mythology, the Nameless Things seem to be directly inspired by the serpentine Nidhogg. A dragon that chews the very roots of the World Tree and feasts on the corpses of the dead in Nastrond. That's pretty awesome, too.
Since Eru made the world of song, I always imagined the nameless things originating from the first dissonances when he tried out every music fathomable. A byproduct of his learning process. That’s why they are evil, since they cannot fit into the real world, but always oppose it and eachother.
your own theorie on the nameless ones reminds me on the nightmares that have driven h. p. lovecraft. Maybe they are a hint on a similar deep fear like the ones Lovecraft visualized in his novels.
I'm pretty sure the empty bubble at 9:40 is supposed to have text in it.
I have two ways of looking at this, one based on the actual information ( a good chunk from your videos) and another based on my personal likes in media overall
The first and the one I believe is what you mention at the end, its an ecosystem, there's many a creature even in our world that live in the depths of the ocean and have disturbing "designs" because of the harsh environment they find themselves in (adding onto this, in Return to Moria the game shows us part of this or even more I haven't gone very far yet but the point stands, there's a whole ecosystem below Moria and it works pretty well), the watcher could very well simply be an offspring of a larger creature and it somehow ended up where we find it
The second one is my personal favourite, I would believe they coexisted with Illuvatar, they are cosmic beings like the old ones in bloodborne or lovecraft's mythos, honestly there is little for me to go off of but I just like imagining the LotR has these creatures that are neither gods nor demons, they simply exist within the cosmos and some chose to hide in the darker places of the world whether because of their own nature or because it was simply beneficial to them. In this case, the watcher could even be a lesser cosmic being that wandered off
Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing. And before there was nothing, there were Monsters.
the theory that melkor's dissonance in the original music created them seems most plausible to me, that melkor, not being a literal god like Eru, didn't realize the twisted abominations his own dischordant notes had created, completely unintentionally, and since they remained hidden in the deepest bowels of the earth, he never really sensed them or at least paid them little to no attention, and subsequently never told sauron, either because he didn't know of them or didn't know enough of them, and didn't see it as worth mentioning (or deliberately withheld knowledge)
Absolutely top notch content, you've got another sub from me.
thank you so much, this video has explained a whole lot to me that I never was able to really understand and also I havent read all the books. i have the collection but havent got round to reading them all. so thanks very much. this is fantastic😀
This art is amazing! Who is the artist who drew these images, does anyone know?
I think it's just as likely that Melkor had corrupted other Valar before they entered Arda but they abandoned him and found their own places in Arda not being willing to diminish themselves and be subservient to Melkor and then just stayed hidden not wishing to bring the wrath of Valinor that surely must have felt in the many battles with Melkor. Truly there is no answer or even really a hint of an answer in any writings by either Tolkien so whatever head canon makes sense to you is the correct one.
I don’t know what it is about you guys, but I’ve been watching all of these LotR lore videos like I’ve got an addiction
I think that the Nameless Things and other eldritch creatures of Arda (the spiders especially) are a result of the Discord by Melkor, and Iluvatar's attempt to meld it into the overarching Song. The stray melodies and offkey notes giving rise to these mysterious entities who would awaken upon the creation of Ea.
That or they were bred in the deepest and foulest pits of Utumno by Melkor, and they survived and eventually escaped after the Valar sacked the place.
There is a passage that specially says that they are like Melkor but not of Melkor, which means they were not created by him either through his song or otherwise. They seem to have already existed in the endless void of nothingness before Eä even existed then were drawn to Arda after Melkor infused it with his dark power. They are the physical manifestation of chaos and evil in the world and probably hunger endlessly similarly to Ungoliant.
"Before there was time, before there was anything, there was nothing, and before there was nothing... there were monsters" - Gandalf, maybe
The Nameless things have exhisted since the time of the music or Eru and the forming of Arda when the two trees of starlight were created along with the Valar. From the Simarilian.
I like your voice and your content. Both resonate deeply!
Once I thought a bit about a what if where Saruman never gave in to despair and prepared the world better against Sauron.
With the discovery of the Ring before he could have a solid hold on the world of Men, Sauron would have turned to darker, less controllable powers and beasts. In a way he would have repeated the acts of Morgoth who allied with Ungoliant.
The whole story would have been quite different, closer to the epics of old. I wonder if he would have involved the nameless things.
I love your videos and just subscribed! They’re very informative and well scripted. I also wanted to give you a quick FYI just in case you didn’t know but your second readind of the Hobbit ( 9:41 ) is missing the caption.
When Melkor added his discord to Eru's music when creating Arda. Could the nameless things be a result perhaps even Ungoliant?
I agree with your last theory of The Nameless Things being a myriad of different creatures, as it is also mine. The Watcher, a creature with no name other then it's presumed mission was probably chased from the deep places of middle earth and seduced to emerge from the water by the power of The One Ring, must have been a nameless thing, I agree that Ungoliant might have also been such a creature.
I have another theory as to why Arda was created in the first place, maybe, as you speculated, Eru was sharing his existence with the Nameless Things in the void and created a prison to hold them.
More likely though they were created to contrast the beautiful things in the world. A light shines ever brighter in dark places and a world must seem infinite in it's beauty in the face of Nameless Things.
I think that since the Ainur were not at first aware of what they were making with the song until Eru iluvatar revealed arda to them that the nameless things were created at the start of melkor’s discord and therefore were there before the valar got there
Its hard to say how much of what Gandalf said can be taken at face value. Its heavily implied if not outright stated that there's a lot from his time as Olorin that he doesnt remember. And being around longer than Sauron doesnt necessarily mean they predate the Ainur, Sauron is a name that came much much later
I think they are beings that existed before the creation of the world, perhaps they may be like Cthulhu Mythos type creatures from Lovecraft's tales.
I came to the same conclusion as you when you started describing things crawling into water/caves never to leave again. Their eyes growing and bodies changing (evolution). It isn’t too hard to imagine a world or new ecosystem down there of creatures which are built to live only underground and in the dark.
I sometimes think that the nameless things that knaw the earth are the wer-worms, mentioned by Gandalf.
I believe the Nameless Beings were an after effect of Melkor trying to mess up Eru Iluvitar's Song.
As such they are indeed older than Sauron, but they are still part of Eru Iluvitar's plan.
Of course because they are the parts of the song that were corrupted by Melkor, they have been outcast, or their mere existence forces them to be outcast as they stand anathema to everything Eru Iluvitar stands.
And since the song failed, they are basically just monsters, failed creations of the world Melkor envisioned.
My assumption was that they were a side-effect of the disruption of the first song of creation. Where Iluvitar feels many emotions due to Melkors betrayal, that translate to song. Along with the general discourse of the song itself, may have been a leading cause as well.
"Through ventillions of years, they seeped down from the stars..."
I never would have imagined Tolkien to have conceived of something so Lovecraftian. It makes me wish for a synthesis of the two authors works.
Gandalf: "I have seen things you wouldn't believe. I have lost things you will never understand. And I know things. Secrets that must never be told. Knowledge that must never be spoken. Knowledge that will make parasite Gods blaze!"
The ecosystem of nameless things is probably the most accurate theory, and it parallels the crucible from Elden Ring. Primordial beings with features from all manner of species, a la convergent evolution. After all it makes more sense for “nameless things” to refer to a number of undocumented creatures rather than a single species. If it were just one species it would be easier to name, and far less mysterious.
The Nameless Things don't predate Eru since the Secret Fire is the only thing capable of creating life. Melkor did tamper with the Music of the Ainur and even managed to "convert" some Ainur to his initial violent tune. If Eä is the product of the three different waves of Music, that could mean the Nameless Things are the product of that initial clash. This can be proved since Melkor traveled the Void in search of the Secret Fire and he wanted to create living creatures to inhabit it. Considering how these beings are out of proportion to the rest of Eä, most likely they were supposed to inhabit the Void but only Eru knew of this.
When it says, more old than Morgoth at 3:33, I wonder if it means older than Melkor, or older than when Faenor first called him Morgoth.
I imagine was supposed to be like the sea floor where we barely know anything about it and all the organisms at that depth look wacky
Also soil organisms where they are so small and numerous that we aren’t able to identify 99% of them
My theory is that many of the monsters of middle earth that are ancient, primal, and unexplained (such as Ungoliath) are likely a byproduct of the discourse of Melkor.
In the chaos of the discourse, many things I think were created without the Ainur noticing due to how chaotic it was, though Eru doubtless noticed.
If the Nameless Things existed before Sauron, the alternative interpretation to "have existed within Arda longer than Sauron" is that if the Ainur were the first creation of Eru then the nameless things are not creations of Eru but something that existed before
Another excellent video. I wonder if Tolkein read Lovecraft?
As I imagine things suddenly materialized out of the ether in the Music of the Ainur. Harmonies manifested Tom Bombadil. The discord and cacophony created Ungoliant and the nameless things
Robert E Howard(who wrote Conan) called these the Worms Of the Earth. His friend HP Lovecraft wrote extensively of the Nameless ones. Such as the one adapted to the Metallica song. The Thing that should not be. And another adaption by Metallica The call of Ktulu.