@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 My guess is that XP to Level 3's players were all people who have mainly played 5e. I have noticed with folks that have got their start playing 5e (or at best PF1) there is this mentality that you don't need to use any caution or tactics when exploring a room. I think it comes from the fact that 5e has done a lot to remove or mitigate the exploration pillar of D&D. There are some many passive abilities, powers, and spells that make exploration almost negliible
@@KnightoftheRose98I think that the priority of players has also shifted since the older versions of DnD. Most players now are looking at storytelling, character development, and world building rather than dungeon crawling. I think that’s part of the reason why dungeons like this are seen as monotonous, boring, or unfair. Players now aren’t after loot, they’re after a story. If your character gets crushed by a steamroller, there’s no glory or fun to their death, they just die. Sure, it can serve as a nice ‘this is the tomb that no one returns from’ in a world, but I think that ToH is just a relic from an older time. A fun one shot where everyone brings 3 characters, but not something for a thought out campaign with rich characters.
DM's like you and Seth are a blessing to this community! While we all have our adventures/dungeons we would rather avoid, it's still important to understand where this hobby came from. And Tomb of Horrors is absolutely one of the big boys that propelled the game into its current fandom.
I can't tell you how many times I watched your videos on this. I ended up making my own, but made it out of wood. The two hallways are on either side of each other, so once they get to the second hallway you just flip over the first. I did the same thing with the chapel room and the thrown room but had to modify them slightly so they were the same size. Same thing with the room with the vats and the false treasure room. The rest of the dungeon was the 1.25" system with the exception of the lava pit and the misty grotto. I can't lay the whole dungeon out at once, but it makes it much more transportable.
Howdy Wyloch! Love your builds! You inspired me to finish my sculpt of the DCC core rulebook intro dungeon. Keep creating and playing bud! What a lovely combo this video draws together.
I remember a story from a Con with Gary where another DM was running Tomb of Horrors. The party got the crown and scepter that disintegrated whoever was wearing the crown, put it on the skull, and activated it. The DM didn't know what to do and thought no way would Gary allow that to work on a demilich, so he paused the game to ask Gary. Gary just said "Yeah, he's dead" and turned back around to the game he was running.
@@Suavek69 I'd prefer it to either group having so many more protections in place over the other. That's why there were morale checks; the enemies were just as mortal and just as unwilling to die.
I really, really hate to say this but -- someone read the adventure in advance. That's the problem with all these stories -- it's like taking a test when the answers have been available for over 40 years. It doesn't mean anything to go through the tomb of horrors now.
@@quantus5875I caught that too. These players seemed to know enough about the dungeon and what the riddle meant for their first time playing it. And how, exactly, did they know what was in the green devil face to know to chuck Acerak in it?
I bought 'Return to the Tomb of Horrors', which came with the Original Module, and I used to run the full adventure for people outside the lunchroom at High School using 2e AD&D. Years later, I remember people telling me that the module was unfair and unbeatable, and then calling me a liar when I told them how multiple groups of teenagers simply completed it through trial and error. Nobody ever reached the Lost City of Moil, however. But that was because we all graduated at the end of the school year and not for lack of trying.
I DMed that box set for my characters back in the late 90’s. Haha! Almost a total part kill. They never even made it to the actual tomb. The gate to the Necromancers City had I think wail of the banshee that issued from the gate golems mouth and really hurt the players. They continued on into the city and were finally surrounded by hordes of undead and necromancers. They were a party of 4, each 15th level or higher. And the only one who survived was a 16th level fighter mage who had a spell already cast on him that teleported him back to his tower when he went to 0 hps 😂. So I guess I’ve only “kinda” ran the Tomb of Horrors lol.
@@MilkmanOfTheApocalypseExactly. The Tomb can be brute forced even by first level characters if you bring a fat enough stack of character sheets. Not a great design.
In the darkness of unnamed horrors In a lonely forest A human stands alone in front of a Lich The lichs voice announcing a thousand deaths says: "SO... I HEARD YOU WANT TO BUILD A TOMB FOR ME"
The seemingly arbitrary solutions that hurt Acererak was obviously rulings by Gygax on the spot that were later set in writing. His failure was to communicate this and the principals of his rulings to the DMs that run the module so that they could make rulings by themselves. This is also probably one of the best D&D videos on UA-cam.
During the original tournament, one party put the crown on the demi-lich and touched it with the "wrong" end of the scepter (SOURCE: Return to the Tomb of Horrors). My party used the evil wishing gem and then threw it into the final room. It killed the demi-lich but also destroyed all of his treasure.
Came for the nostalgia..stayed for Deathbringer's 'bed time story'. I never played Tomb of Horrors though I've been in dungeons where the DM was clearly feeling mean at the time.
I was playing through the Tomb of Horrors in AD&D and had a 13th level Wizard with a Staff of Power. After an unfortunate encounter with the traps at the main entrance, I told my fellow adventurers I was going to build my own entrance--and circling around to the OPPOSITE side of the tomb, tunneling in using the 'Passwall' feature of the Staff and bypassed half the traps and tricks in the Dungeon!
I mean if your players were able to figure most of it out, then it seems like the problem with the dungeon is that it requires a kind of mentality that other groups might not be ready for. It seems like the dungeon itself is a railroad where the punishment for going "off the tracks" is character death, but considering that opening poem essentially explains how to navigate all the way through to the end I like it more. If the dungeon was actually meant for time-limited tournament play then I might be convinced to run it as a one-session one shot under the in-game idea that the dungeon only opens once every few hundred years, and only for a single day. Once the entrance closes again, anyone left inside is trapped forever. That would really put the pressure on your party to get as much loot as they can and get out, which would probably lead them to making more of those life-or-death mistakes that the dungeon is known for punishing players for making.
The problem isn't really the tomb itself -- it's the final fight or attempt to destroy Acererak that is the killer. all of what you need to do is so arbitrary -- that almost impossible to destroy Acererack without losing at least 3-4 members of the party if not all of them. And IMO the bag of holding would not have worked based on my interpretation of the module. So TPK, or like I said again 3-4 or more characters biting the dust. Only way to really do it legit IMO is if your DM lets you research destroying Acererack beforehand and then gives you a few hits on how to damage him. How well you do really depends on if you have a nice DM or you have a not-so-nice DM.
Many moons ago I was playing a game at a game store and the table next to me was play ToH. I was keeping a third ear/eye out on the game as I ran mine and during one of our breaks as I watched the players they decided to pick up their fellow players halfling (not knowing what would happen) and inserted the halfling into one of the green devil heads head first to let him "look" around. The look of astonishment was priceless when they pulled him back out.
It's the ultimate lesson in knowing how to roleplay in character. You die in the Tomb by doing stuff you would NEVER do if you were exploring an ancient tomb. Players take tons of actions based on "I get a save and have +6" or "I have X hitpoints". In real life, it doesn't matter how fast you think you are, you don't stick your hand in strange holes without serious research.
Very well said. The way to beat the Tomb of Horrors, is to roleplay that YOU are actually in the tomb, and what would you do to survive (I mean most people would never enter, but let’s say you did).
Yes. But also, if I were doing the tomb like I were myself, I would never get through the front door. So you gotta be a little mental to even be there in the first place. It reminds me a bit of the movie "pain and gain". There's several moments where you can think, "if they only stopped here, they could have gotten away with it." But the reason why they got that far is they were so nuts in the first place - no logical person would have gotten that far.
@@bobbycrosby9765 True, but the entire point is to use some common sense. As a forever DM, I far too often see players try some of the most absurd things, that there is no way in heck they’d ever be so foolish IRL. And while I appreciate that D&D is a rpg, and you’re supposed to embrace your superhero status, there is a such thing as using some sense. You can’t simply OP every single dungeon.
One of my earliest ‘formal play’ memories was at my local Wargaming club back in the late 70’s. The GM used Chivalry and Sorcery, and ran a campaign with about 20 players at once! So of course, we tackled Tomb of Horrors with first level characters. (In retrospect, I guess us kids WERE the hirelings…) I remember dying in a rock fall five minutes in. That’s it. My brother’s character had 30 piglets stored in his saddlebags as food… but never got to use them…
This may be your Magnum Opus Professor, it's not only the colabs of other channels (which is great because there were some I didn't knew) and how hilarious the whole video is, it's also how epic you party of players are on engaging the dungeon. This video is so amazing I had to watch it all over again after the first time. Congrats!
Great video PDM! I would like to thank you for revitalizing my efforts as a DM. Between your crafting, DMing advice, and adventure ideas, my players have responded very enthusiastically and encouragingly. We play every 4-6 weeks instead of twice a year. Thank you so much!
I've played through it 2x and DMed it 3x since 1978. and it's objectively the best module ever. There was a guy who made a Neverwinter Nights module for it as well... he did a GREAT job... I wish I remembered who it was...
I finally got to run the 5th ed version of this a few years ago. I dropped it randomly in my game. Literally, my players spotted it in the distance while traversing a swamp on a quest in the tyranny of Dragons campaign. They decided to investigate it and they regretted it. They never found the real tomb and they all lost their equipment. A few died from the bleeding door after they hacked at it several times and one died trying to jump over the lava pit when they only needed to roll above a 5 for their athletics check. It's a fun adventure but I'm not sure it belongs in the top 5. Also, there are far worse "death" dungeons out there. Try Goodman Games Crypt of the Devil Lich, for both 3.5, 5th Ed, and DCCRPG. Or worse, Rappan Athuk: Dungeon of Graves by Frog God Games, in either 3.5, 5th Ed, or sword and sorcery. Both of those are way worse than Tomb of Horrors, in my opinion.
Another great video - Seth's bit had me laughing out loud. I still have my copy of this from when I was a kid, but I don't recall ever running it. Probably because it didn't sound like it would be fun to 11 year old me.
Your insights (and awesome players) have inspired me to run the Tomb of Horrors as a 0 level funnel! It struck me how similar in tone it is to the "Portal Beneath the Stars", and you proved the Tomb can be beaten with clever play regardless of character levels. Thank you!
This high level deadly experience could be beaten without raising a weapon or really taking much damage at all, meaning a super low level party with the right tools could just win big. I love that
It a fan of Tomb of Horrors. It is a big “FU” to the players as you can’t will without cheating. It doesn’t matter how good a player you are. BUT…it has awesome ideas to steal for other home brew dungeons. 😊
Seems like one of the people playing was familiar with the module... That's the problem with playing the Tomb these says -- it's like taking the test when the answers have been available for decades.
I played this for the first time this spring at the Great Underground Online Gaming Convention. I played one of two Thieves in the group, among the last survivors. The last was a Paladin who was no longer qualified and eventually died of starvation. I did write a parody on Just a Jigolo for it ...
Below is what I think ;↓▼↓ Love the use of MC Hammer, "Can't touch this". OMG I can't believe I missed the release of this video. Thanks for doing it and getting all the guests as well. Great video as always Professor DM. Seth as Gary was so funny. My thoughts on the Tomb of Horrors: With no clues on how to bypass something, the module actually saying if they try this spell/ability/skill it just doesn't work, and all the hairbrained non-sense makes for a horrible adventure. Now, I am not calling out your players but seriously, none of them died except for the dwarf that wanted to play his backup character? How did they just leave after summoning a giant skeleton? How do they know to throw the skull into the green devil mask? If they are not touching anything, how did they know to take the necklace of gems from the statue? How did they know to give the other statue the gems? How do you find the secret door using the crown and scepter? There are no clues so how do people figure these things out? I really want to know, what and how people are thinking to come up with these ideas. The "riddle" at the beginning of this dungeon makes no sense, uses "old" English (how would I know what these non-sense words, that I never heard before, mean?), and all the traps? I mean there is more than 60% traps in this dungeon. Who builds dungeons like that? In case I did not mention it, there are no clues (no, the baloney riddle at the beginning is not a clue, its baloney). Ha ha, there is a skeleton pointing to a glowing portal doorway. Go through it and your sex/alignment changes. No warning, no clue, just a gotcha. That is not good dungeon design. I mean, I am not the great Gary but I know bad dungeon design when I see/play it. What would you change for this adventure? Some things? A lot of things? All the things? That is the video I would love to see you do. A video on how to make a dungeon, that makes sense, that is similar to the Tomb of Horrors. Where can I get that wizard mini? In the blue robes? Love it and want to get one please and thank you. @21:06 is that Mumra from ThunderCats?
WOW! Probably one of my favorite episodes you have done YET! So great to see all of the other UA-camr DMs involved! I was a player run through this back in 1984. We had leveled our characters up to level 7-8 by playing through our DMs campaign over the last 4 years. We lost all of our original PCs and were playing they backups from the module. it took 2 5 hour game sessions to complete. The DM actually ended the 2nd session with another adventure that we played through in order to REZ our original characters. So many great memories!
They are very different people with very different expectations. XP to level 3 is a full blown son of 5e. He sees the game through the filter of post 3e/post critical role story time d&d. That doesn't invalidate his arguments. But it does give him a more limited scope than someone like the professor that has seen the game change from earlier procedural exploration based iterations.
@@allenyates3469In the early days of their channel he told stories from their 3.5 games Granted, the particular story I'm remembering is a kobold monk one turning a purple worm, so it doesn't exactly seem like super valuable experience, but they definitely did start with an earlier edition.
I really liked all the cameos, including the ones that criticize the adventure alongside ones that praise it or put it in context. It adds up to a really holistic perspective that I really appreciate.
Tomb of Horrors I think truly exposes the Video Game mentality vs the "Role" Play mentality. It's actually imagining yourself in the situation vs treating your character like a collection of stats.
This is probably the best video of yours and one of the best RPG videos I've ever seen. So entertaining, well put together and shows real love and appreciation for the history of this hobby
It's really hard to survive the Tomb of Horrors... No, it's actually super easy, barely an inconvenience. Oh? Yeah, the party will just walk five feet away from one another with rope tied around their waists. Why five feet? Why not ten? I don't know... Who came up with that plan? Unclear. If someone falls in a pit, won't that knock the people attached to them off their feet unless they... Look! I'm going to need you to get ALL THE WAY off my back about the rope thing, here .. OK! Let me get off that thing!
Also, that tactic -- in almost every dungeon other than the Tomb -- if there were monsters would be disastrous. You'd encounter a few Type IV demons and half you party would be gone before the rest of the party had time to run up to find out what was going on. 😂 Better to have a fast scout (thief) 20-30' ahead with boots of flying or something and all kinds of detection scrolls and detection magic items -- and if that person dies you can always raise dead (if there is a body). 🙂 Also something like a magic user with a teleport spell at the back of the party (and other escape type spells).
5 feet is close enough to see and react but far enough that 2 people probably won't be equally affected by things ahead. if you expect death trap holes, you secure yourself. also 5 feet means a fall is minimal. the longer the rope, the more someone falls. depends on the build of the person and how prepared they are for something to happen. which considering the reason they have the rope in the first place, they are reasonably prepared. and the person in front is probably the light nimble one.
This was the worst D&D adventure I ever participated in. My DM was stoked to run it and after we ran it twice the group was like no thanks. It felt very mean spirited like the DM hated his players success and was spitefully out to get them. Just a complete failure and undeserving of the title. Best adventure of all time. I would bestow that honor on the original Ravenloft or Temple of Elemental Evil
Fantastic video. My friends and I played this module when it first came out and most of us died fighting the demi lich. We were young...and not cautious. Nice trip down memory lane.
I ran tomb of horrors in college and the players did not find it challenging… one player said “I thought it was the tomb of horrors, not the tomb of bore-ors.” I think it’s good, but its reputation may be slightly inflated.
I think Acererak hired Deathbringer to build the Tomb of Horrors for him . In all seriousness, the Tomb of Horrors is a death trap and that's what it's supposed to be. It's the type of thing that a group of people can sit around watching others play and one by one as people get eliminated new players can join in the group and use the previous information to get past the traps one by one until the last group standing makes it to the end. Perfect tournament style play, a perfect design by someone that was used to doing War Gaming elimination style.
I like your notebook approach to DM prep, the drawings add a nice touch! Thanks for the fun ride through this adventure, the D&D celebrities who appeared clearly think highly of you and your work.
I think it shows how differently people think after 40+ years. Back in the day, modules like this were part of the course. I remember a group of us being bored one day and my players saying how it was unfair that they never got to play high level characters (I almost always ran them from 1st up and they usually died). So I said, "Fine, you make up some 5th-level characters and I'll run you through at 10th-level dungeon. If you can survive, I'll make you 10th and start a 10th-level campaign for you." I ran them through some dungeon tiles with the random table of traps, monsters, and tricks. Their thief found a portcullis trap near the front and later they ran into a wyvern. So... they set up a trap for the wyvern, using the rogue at bait inside the trap area, and he survived long enough to run out and the others set off the trap -- sealing the wyvern behind the bars while they peppered him with arrows through the bars. Today's players are different. They complain about modules, I've seen teens and twenty-somethings have fits at a comic shop over minor things, and they are stuck on their characters sheets. Not sure if it is video games, parenting, lack of imaginative activities, etc. but there is are completely different mindset with most folks under about 30 today. It's actually kind of sad.
@@magonus195 Public schools, single parent households, divorce rates, low fertility rates (i.e. fewer siblings and children / helicopter parents), technology (internet, cell phones, video games, UA-cam, etc.), more urbanization, fewer stay-at-home moms, less organized groups (churches, Scouts, school clubs, etc.), etc. School is as much a symptom as an cause.
I am not seriously witnessing an echo chamber of human regression discussion over the topic of fucking DnD of all things. What a bunch of arrogant snobs tying an unrelated problem to a subject they’ve been wounded over and are looking for blame.
Great mix of insights from other gamers along with a "play by play" with your own group. Thirty minutes of fun and a great job of editing everything together. Thanks!
Great video, Prof., really appreciate the perspective you and your collaborators shared. If I ever did run this for my players, I would want to set the appropriate expectation for them.
This was great!! Thank you, Professor. 🙂 And Deathbringer's idea of an ASMR lullabye is disturbing. That has to be the most brutally efficient way of dealing with Acererak I've ever heard!
Phenomenal vid about one of the first AD&D adventures I played as a kid (died about 13 times). One thing irked me though -- the iconic four-armed gargoyle is bought up several times in the module's "synopsis", but you never get to see that sweet Trampier illustration of it. Instead we keep seeing the same pic of a gargoyle miniature.
Great overview. I admit I’m in the “I don’t like it” camp but as always picked up some good tips on running it. Love all the cameos by other UA-camrs, but super love all of Seth’s “history of D&D” shorts so this was awesome.
I love these collab videos and this is the best yet! Thanks for giving this alternate take on the tomb. While i enjoyed xp to lvl 3s take i could tell that they took everything out of context. The fact that this was made for a timed competition, for highly experienced 1st edition players, really helps explain why the dungeon is so "mean" in it's layout and execution.
I don't remember how many of my characters died before we managed to get the whole way through. Definitely not a module for the conventional murder-hobos that we were so long ago. Great video, brings back a lot of memories of late-night dice rolling (my stomach churns at the idea of eating that much pizza and downing that much Mountain Dew at my current age).
Ran this for my game group a couple years ago using AD&D. Half the party died. They weren't able to kill the demi-lich, but half the party lived to tell the tale. They LOVED the experience of this classic.
Fantastic video, Professor. Thank you for letting me take part.
Thank you for bringing back pseudopod Seth 😁
Still the best Gygax impression ever.
He learned that in a Cincinnati truck stop.
You sir are a gem to this hobby Seth,
thank u for sharing this planet with us
I had never previously contemplated a Gary Gygax/Randy Savage chimera. Thanks for expanding my consciousness.
👏 👏 👏 👏 Bravo!!!! Wonderful!!!! Author!!!!
Seth Skorkowsky is a national treasure. 'Nuff said.
@@w.lewisblack2704 he is.
I'm a simple man, I see Seth doing something, I watch it!
"Death AND humiliation, which is what we like to call 'Adventure'!"
Absolutely.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 My guess is that XP to Level 3's players were all people who have mainly played 5e. I have noticed with folks that have got their start playing 5e (or at best PF1) there is this mentality that you don't need to use any caution or tactics when exploring a room.
I think it comes from the fact that 5e has done a lot to remove or mitigate the exploration pillar of D&D. There are some many passive abilities, powers, and spells that make exploration almost negliible
@@KnightoftheRose98I think that the priority of players has also shifted since the older versions of DnD. Most players now are looking at storytelling, character development, and world building rather than dungeon crawling. I think that’s part of the reason why dungeons like this are seen as monotonous, boring, or unfair. Players now aren’t after loot, they’re after a story. If your character gets crushed by a steamroller, there’s no glory or fun to their death, they just die. Sure, it can serve as a nice ‘this is the tomb that no one returns from’ in a world, but I think that ToH is just a relic from an older time. A fun one shot where everyone brings 3 characters, but not something for a thought out campaign with rich characters.
"...super easy. Barely an inconvenience."
Pitch Meeting references are TIGHT!
Executive: Why do we need another edition of D&D? The old one is still popular. WoTC Producer: because money. Executive: Very good. Proceed.
"So, you have a new D&D Edition for me?"
"Yes, sir, I do! Well... Kind of."
yui spotted
OMG Seth was Spectacular!
I don't think I understand his humour - I had to skip through the bit
I knew this would be a great video when Seth Skorkowsky turned up as a coked-up Gygax to explain the adventure.
Why? Because it’s FANTASY!
Excellence in action!
Yeah this was terrific ...
It wasn't pure gold, it was platinum! This video is worth watching for that alone!
DM's like you and Seth are a blessing to this community! While we all have our adventures/dungeons we would rather avoid, it's still important to understand where this hobby came from. And Tomb of Horrors is absolutely one of the big boys that propelled the game into its current fandom.
Thank you for your support.
What a weenie lmaoooooo
If you build it, they will come.
I hope they're using your terrain Wyloch! that setup & vids are legendary++
I can't tell you how many times I watched your videos on this. I ended up making my own, but made it out of wood. The two hallways are on either side of each other, so once they get to the second hallway you just flip over the first. I did the same thing with the chapel room and the thrown room but had to modify them slightly so they were the same size. Same thing with the room with the vats and the false treasure room. The rest of the dungeon was the 1.25" system with the exception of the lava pit and the misty grotto. I can't lay the whole dungeon out at once, but it makes it much more transportable.
so true
Howdy Wyloch! Love your builds! You inspired me to finish my sculpt of the DCC core rulebook intro dungeon. Keep creating and playing bud!
What a lovely combo this video draws together.
You've done builds for the first two S modules, I'll be waiting for your Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth build!
I remember a story from a Con with Gary where another DM was running Tomb of Horrors. The party got the crown and scepter that disintegrated whoever was wearing the crown, put it on the skull, and activated it. The DM didn't know what to do and thought no way would Gary allow that to work on a demilich, so he paused the game to ask Gary. Gary just said "Yeah, he's dead" and turned back around to the game he was running.
Seems like he was as eager to kill his BBEG as he was to kill PCs. Which is fair tbh
@@Suavek69 I'd prefer it to either group having so many more protections in place over the other. That's why there were morale checks; the enemies were just as mortal and just as unwilling to die.
Throwing Acererak in the green devil face is the most amazing thing I have ever heard!!!
My hobbits is tricksy.
Poetic justice!
I really, really hate to say this but -- someone read the adventure in advance. That's the problem with all these stories -- it's like taking a test when the answers have been available for over 40 years. It doesn't mean anything to go through the tomb of horrors now.
@@quantus5875I caught that too. These players seemed to know enough about the dungeon and what the riddle meant for their first time playing it. And how, exactly, did they know what was in the green devil face to know to chuck Acerak in it?
@@Dj84JA2 they stuck a torch into it, he said that
Aww man surprise Seth Skorkowsky sketch is always appreciated!
The amount of things you can learn at a Cincinnati truck stop is astounding.
I bought 'Return to the Tomb of Horrors', which came with the Original Module, and I used to run the full adventure for people outside the lunchroom at High School using 2e AD&D.
Years later, I remember people telling me that the module was unfair and unbeatable, and then calling me a liar when I told them how multiple groups of teenagers simply completed it through trial and error.
Nobody ever reached the Lost City of Moil, however. But that was because we all graduated at the end of the school year and not for lack of trying.
Thanks for sharing.
I DMed that box set for my characters back in the late 90’s. Haha! Almost a total part kill. They never even made it to the actual tomb. The gate to the Necromancers City had I think wail of the banshee that issued from the gate golems mouth and really hurt the players. They continued on into the city and were finally surrounded by hordes of undead and necromancers. They were a party of 4, each 15th level or higher. And the only one who survived was a 16th level fighter mage who had a spell already cast on him that teleported him back to his tower when he went to 0 hps 😂. So I guess I’ve only “kinda” ran the Tomb of Horrors lol.
Return to the Tomb is a fantastic campaign, tremendously brutal. 5e’s Tomb of Annihilation is actually one of the more solid 5e products.
Completing it through trial and error doesn't exactly refute the "unfair and unbeatable"
@@MilkmanOfTheApocalypseExactly. The Tomb can be brute forced even by first level characters if you bring a fat enough stack of character sheets. Not a great design.
Seth's performance is 11/10. No notes.
Goodnight, Deathbringer!
Thanks for the cameo!
Dittos
Wow. Just gotta say... Seth's virtuoso breakdown is perhaps the most impressive content he's ever created. Outstanding.
Thanks. He is terrific.
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 The Cigarette helped , ha ha, smok'em if you got'em
One of your best video in a long time, Professor!
Wow, thanks!
You could have gotten Ryan from Pitch Meeting to say "Super Easy, Barely an Inconvenience!"
In the darkness of unnamed horrors
In a lonely forest
A human stands alone in front of a Lich
The lichs voice announcing a thousand deaths says:
"SO... I HEARD YOU WANT TO BUILD A TOMB FOR ME"
@@ceropuntocinco Necromancy is TIGHT!
The seemingly arbitrary solutions that hurt Acererak was obviously rulings by Gygax on the spot that were later set in writing.
His failure was to communicate this and the principals of his rulings to the DMs that run the module so that they could make rulings by themselves.
This is also probably one of the best D&D videos on UA-cam.
Thanks for the compliment. Please pass it on.
My first time running Tomb of Horrors resulted in a TPK in under 30 minutes as one-by-one, everyone dove head-first into the green devil face.
LOL Ooooops!
This was an absolute treat. Thank you everyone who participated!
Thank you!
Seth went over and beyond the call of duty on this one.
Perfect cameo from Brandish Gilhelm
During the original tournament, one party put the crown on the demi-lich and touched it with the "wrong" end of the scepter (SOURCE: Return to the Tomb of Horrors).
My party used the evil wishing gem and then threw it into the final room. It killed the demi-lich but also destroyed all of his treasure.
Classic!
I live how epic this video goes with all the guest appearances and input. It's like an Avengers of TTRPGs collaboration.
Came for the nostalgia..stayed for Deathbringer's 'bed time story'.
I never played Tomb of Horrors though I've been in dungeons where the DM was clearly feeling mean at the time.
Thanks for watching!
Heard Seth Skorkowskis voice and nearly died from excitement
"Steals your pants and then eats your soul" That's a 70's power ballad if there ever was one.
I was playing through the Tomb of Horrors in AD&D and had a 13th level Wizard with a Staff of Power. After an unfortunate encounter with the traps at the main entrance, I told my fellow adventurers I was going to build my own entrance--and circling around to the OPPOSITE side of the tomb, tunneling in using the 'Passwall' feature of the Staff and bypassed half the traps and tricks in the Dungeon!
I love that! 👍
Nice!
hope you're feeling better, Professor!
Has everyone seen Wylock’s physical building of this Dungeon? It’s fantastic!
He does great work.
I mean if your players were able to figure most of it out, then it seems like the problem with the dungeon is that it requires a kind of mentality that other groups might not be ready for. It seems like the dungeon itself is a railroad where the punishment for going "off the tracks" is character death, but considering that opening poem essentially explains how to navigate all the way through to the end I like it more.
If the dungeon was actually meant for time-limited tournament play then I might be convinced to run it as a one-session one shot under the in-game idea that the dungeon only opens once every few hundred years, and only for a single day. Once the entrance closes again, anyone left inside is trapped forever. That would really put the pressure on your party to get as much loot as they can and get out, which would probably lead them to making more of those life-or-death mistakes that the dungeon is known for punishing players for making.
The problem isn't really the tomb itself -- it's the final fight or attempt to destroy Acererak that is the killer. all of what you need to do is so arbitrary -- that almost impossible to destroy Acererack without losing at least 3-4 members of the party if not all of them. And IMO the bag of holding would not have worked based on my interpretation of the module. So TPK, or like I said again 3-4 or more characters biting the dust. Only way to really do it legit IMO is if your DM lets you research destroying Acererack beforehand and then gives you a few hits on how to damage him. How well you do really depends on if you have a nice DM or you have a not-so-nice DM.
Halfway through this walkthrough and I'm lovin' this longer form content Professor 💪
Many moons ago I was playing a game at a game store and the table next to me was play ToH. I was keeping a third ear/eye out on the game as I ran mine and during one of our breaks as I watched the players they decided to pick up their fellow players halfling (not knowing what would happen) and inserted the halfling into one of the green devil heads head first to let him "look" around. The look of astonishment was priceless when they pulled him back out.
So many great visitors. Seth Skorkowsky was great. Along with "Super easy, barely an inconvenience" I'd like to add "Green Devil faces are tight."
It's the ultimate lesson in knowing how to roleplay in character.
You die in the Tomb by doing stuff you would NEVER do if you were exploring an ancient tomb.
Players take tons of actions based on "I get a save and have +6" or "I have X hitpoints".
In real life, it doesn't matter how fast you think you are, you don't stick your hand in strange holes without serious research.
Very well said. The way to beat the Tomb of Horrors, is to roleplay that YOU are actually in the tomb, and what would you do to survive (I mean most people would never enter, but let’s say you did).
@@thetowndrunk988 exactly. Stop playing vicariously and assume the role of your character.
Yes. But also, if I were doing the tomb like I were myself, I would never get through the front door. So you gotta be a little mental to even be there in the first place.
It reminds me a bit of the movie "pain and gain". There's several moments where you can think, "if they only stopped here, they could have gotten away with it." But the reason why they got that far is they were so nuts in the first place - no logical person would have gotten that far.
@@bobbycrosby9765 think of it like a English egyptologist. They explore the tombs for artifacts of the past.
@@bobbycrosby9765 True, but the entire point is to use some common sense. As a forever DM, I far too often see players try some of the most absurd things, that there is no way in heck they’d ever be so foolish IRL. And while I appreciate that D&D is a rpg, and you’re supposed to embrace your superhero status, there is a such thing as using some sense. You can’t simply OP every single dungeon.
"... super easy, barely an inconvenience." 😂Good reference(s)
This was unbelievable! All the different perspectives were amazing. It was a like a "Dungeon Craft Special Episode."
One of my earliest ‘formal play’ memories was at my local Wargaming club back in the late 70’s. The GM used Chivalry and Sorcery, and ran a campaign with about 20 players at once! So of course, we tackled Tomb of Horrors with first level characters. (In retrospect, I guess us kids WERE the hirelings…) I remember dying in a rock fall five minutes in. That’s it. My brother’s character had 30 piglets stored in his saddlebags as food… but never got to use them…
C&C is a great game.
This may be your Magnum Opus Professor, it's not only the colabs of other channels (which is great because there were some I didn't knew) and how hilarious the whole video is, it's also how epic you party of players are on engaging the dungeon. This video is so amazing I had to watch it all over again after the first time. Congrats!
Can’t wait, professor 👏🏻
Great video PDM! I would like to thank you for revitalizing my efforts as a DM. Between your crafting, DMing advice, and adventure ideas, my players have responded very enthusiastically and encouragingly. We play every 4-6 weeks instead of twice a year.
Thank you so much!
Excellent!!
I've played through it 2x and DMed it 3x since 1978. and it's objectively the best module ever.
There was a guy who made a Neverwinter Nights module for it as well... he did a GREAT job... I wish I remembered who it was...
Chris Irby did the conversion for NWN1.
@@Lanessar8008 - Hellz yeah! Soo well done!
I finally got to run the 5th ed version of this a few years ago. I dropped it randomly in my game. Literally, my players spotted it in the distance while traversing a swamp on a quest in the tyranny of Dragons campaign. They decided to investigate it and they regretted it. They never found the real tomb and they all lost their equipment. A few died from the bleeding door after they hacked at it several times and one died trying to jump over the lava pit when they only needed to roll above a 5 for their athletics check.
It's a fun adventure but I'm not sure it belongs in the top 5. Also, there are far worse "death" dungeons out there. Try Goodman Games Crypt of the Devil Lich, for both 3.5, 5th Ed, and DCCRPG. Or worse, Rappan Athuk: Dungeon of Graves by Frog God Games, in either 3.5, 5th Ed, or sword and sorcery. Both of those are way worse than Tomb of Horrors, in my opinion.
We need a Shadowdark version with Kelsey's flair to fix the silliness of it.
I agree. I'll tell her that.
All these cameos made this video a next level experience. Bravo for putting this all together and for genuinely changing my mind on this dungeon
Thank YOU for watching!
If Seth Skorkowski doesn't land an Oscar for Best Supporting Actor for his part in this video then there is something seriously wrong with the world.
He deserves those Ennies.
Legendary collaboration. Truly building an amazing community by bringing people together. ❤
Please give me more Dungeoncraft and to you PDM a speedy painfree recovery
Thank you. I'm feeling okay. Two naps today.
Thank you professor! Love it 👨🎓🐉💥
Another great video - Seth's bit had me laughing out loud. I still have my copy of this from when I was a kid, but I don't recall ever running it. Probably because it didn't sound like it would be fun to 11 year old me.
Professor DM and Seth Skorkowsky team ups are the next level to level ups. 🤜🤛
Great video explaining the Tomb.
The Baron too? Damn, this video is a triple level up.
Plus Bob and Luke?
This video is level 20.
Your insights (and awesome players) have inspired me to run the Tomb of Horrors as a 0 level funnel! It struck me how similar in tone it is to the "Portal Beneath the Stars", and you proved the Tomb can be beaten with clever play regardless of character levels. Thank you!
Portal IS very similar.
Great idea, I'll be stealing it
@@denisselara9324 Cool!
@@denisselara9324 You're most welcome!
This high level deadly experience could be beaten without raising a weapon or really taking much damage at all, meaning a super low level party with the right tools could just win big.
I love that
Yup!
It a fan of Tomb of Horrors. It is a big “FU” to the players as you can’t will without cheating. It doesn’t matter how good a player you are. BUT…it has awesome ideas to steal for other home brew dungeons. 😊
Putting a bag of holding over Acereak's head, and then chucking it into the green devil mouth? I have to admit that's pretty darn clever!
Seems like one of the people playing was familiar with the module... That's the problem with playing the Tomb these says -- it's like taking the test when the answers have been available for decades.
Good timing. I’ve spent the last couple days looking at Tomb of Annihilation for my group
Cool!
Thank you to everybody that helped out with this video. So awesome seeing so many familiar faces come together!
I played this for the first time this spring at the Great Underground Online Gaming Convention. I played one of two Thieves in the group, among the last survivors. The last was a Paladin who was no longer qualified and eventually died of starvation.
I did write a parody on Just a Jigolo for it ...
Below is what I think ;↓▼↓
Love the use of MC Hammer, "Can't touch this".
OMG I can't believe I missed the release of this video. Thanks for doing it and getting all the guests as well. Great video as always Professor DM. Seth as Gary was so funny.
My thoughts on the Tomb of Horrors: With no clues on how to bypass something, the module actually saying if they try this spell/ability/skill it just doesn't work, and all the hairbrained non-sense makes for a horrible adventure.
Now, I am not calling out your players but seriously, none of them died except for the dwarf that wanted to play his backup character? How did they just leave after summoning a giant skeleton? How do they know to throw the skull into the green devil mask? If they are not touching anything, how did they know to take the necklace of gems from the statue? How did they know to give the other statue the gems? How do you find the secret door using the crown and scepter? There are no clues so how do people figure these things out?
I really want to know, what and how people are thinking to come up with these ideas.
The "riddle" at the beginning of this dungeon makes no sense, uses "old" English (how would I know what these non-sense words, that I never heard before, mean?), and all the traps? I mean there is more than 60% traps in this dungeon. Who builds dungeons like that? In case I did not mention it, there are no clues (no, the baloney riddle at the beginning is not a clue, its baloney).
Ha ha, there is a skeleton pointing to a glowing portal doorway. Go through it and your sex/alignment changes. No warning, no clue, just a gotcha. That is not good dungeon design. I mean, I am not the great Gary but I know bad dungeon design when I see/play it.
What would you change for this adventure? Some things? A lot of things? All the things? That is the video I would love to see you do. A video on how to make a dungeon, that makes sense, that is similar to the Tomb of Horrors.
Where can I get that wizard mini? In the blue robes? Love it and want to get one please and thank you.
@21:06 is that Mumra from ThunderCats?
Getting serious Macho Man vibes from Gygax 😂
WOW! Probably one of my favorite episodes you have done YET! So great to see all of the other UA-camr DMs involved! I was a player run through this back in 1984. We had leveled our characters up to level 7-8 by playing through our DMs campaign over the last 4 years. We lost all of our original PCs and were playing they backups from the module. it took 2 5 hour game sessions to complete. The DM actually ended the 2nd session with another adventure that we played through in order to REZ our original characters. So many great memories!
XP to Level 3 is going to eat his words 😈
Or dungeon master is going to reveal disappointing judgement. We’ll see
They are very different people with very different expectations. XP to level 3 is a full blown son of 5e. He sees the game through the filter of post 3e/post critical role story time d&d. That doesn't invalidate his arguments. But it does give him a more limited scope than someone like the professor that has seen the game change from earlier procedural exploration based iterations.
@@AndrewBrownKxp to level 3 is soft.
XP to level 3 apparently eats everything in front of him. I've done a few reactions to his nonsense
@@allenyates3469In the early days of their channel he told stories from their 3.5 games
Granted, the particular story I'm remembering is a kobold monk one turning a purple worm, so it doesn't exactly seem like super valuable experience, but they definitely did start with an earlier edition.
Awesome! I've been looking forward to this video immensely! These adventure module videos are always some of Prof. DM's best!
OMG, Seth was amazing as nicotine-driven Gygax in an oracular fever-dream/sales pitch. 😂
"nicotine"
That ain’t nicotine
You don't snort lines of tobacco.
I really liked all the cameos, including the ones that criticize the adventure alongside ones that praise it or put it in context. It adds up to a really holistic perspective that I really appreciate.
Babe, wake up. Professor DM is on.
LOL
Can’t wait to run this. Thanks for the extensive coverage, wisdom, and delightful collaborations!
Tomb of Horrors I think truly exposes the Video Game mentality vs the "Role" Play mentality. It's actually imagining yourself in the situation vs treating your character like a collection of stats.
Seth! Didnt expect that. Awesome video
21:31 I am picturing the scene from Family Guy Star Wars where the two characters are stealing the couch from the garbage compactor 😀😃.
This is it 😀...
ua-cam.com/video/ArEjvgGxHD8/v-deo.htmlsi=hV_LQYagkLSVLJV0
This is probably the best video of yours and one of the best RPG videos I've ever seen. So entertaining, well put together and shows real love and appreciation for the history of this hobby
Thank you. Please share it!
It's really hard to survive the Tomb of Horrors...
No, it's actually super easy, barely an inconvenience.
Oh?
Yeah, the party will just walk five feet away from one another with rope tied around their waists.
Why five feet? Why not ten?
I don't know...
Who came up with that plan?
Unclear.
If someone falls in a pit, won't that knock the people attached to them off their feet unless they...
Look! I'm going to need you to get ALL THE WAY off my back about the rope thing, here ..
OK! Let me get off that thing!
I thought the same thing, like, yes, of course, this is how we walk through every dungeon, don't you?
Also, that tactic -- in almost every dungeon other than the Tomb -- if there were monsters would be disastrous. You'd encounter a few Type IV demons and half you party would be gone before the rest of the party had time to run up to find out what was going on. 😂 Better to have a fast scout (thief) 20-30' ahead with boots of flying or something and all kinds of detection scrolls and detection magic items -- and if that person dies you can always raise dead (if there is a body). 🙂 Also something like a magic user with a teleport spell at the back of the party (and other escape type spells).
5 feet is close enough to see and react but far enough that 2 people probably won't be equally affected by things ahead.
if you expect death trap holes, you secure yourself.
also 5 feet means a fall is minimal. the longer the rope, the more someone falls.
depends on the build of the person and how prepared they are for something to happen. which considering the reason they have the rope in the first place, they are reasonably prepared. and the person in front is probably the light nimble one.
Loving the occasional high effort video with multiple cameos.
This was the worst D&D adventure I ever participated in. My DM was stoked to run it and after we ran it twice the group was like no thanks. It felt very mean spirited like the DM hated his players success and was spitefully out to get them. Just a complete failure and undeserving of the title. Best adventure of all time. I would bestow that honor on the original Ravenloft or Temple of Elemental Evil
Ravenloft is the best. Better than Temple, for sure (although Village of Hommlet Is great).
Fantastic video. My friends and I played this module when it first came out and most of us died fighting the demi lich. We were young...and not cautious. Nice trip down memory lane.
I ran tomb of horrors in college and the players did not find it challenging… one player said “I thought it was the tomb of horrors, not the tomb of bore-ors.” I think it’s good, but its reputation may be slightly inflated.
Good joke. +100xp for your player.
What an epic video professor DM! Love your take on these classic modules. Super cool seeing so many other Dungeon-tubers as well!
Here instead of of 2024 monk release video lol
THANK YOU.
Best video of the year. This was a riot down memory lane. LOVED all of the UA-cam Easter eggs.
I think Acererak hired Deathbringer to build the Tomb of Horrors for him . In all seriousness, the Tomb of Horrors is a death trap and that's what it's supposed to be. It's the type of thing that a group of people can sit around watching others play and one by one as people get eliminated new players can join in the group and use the previous information to get past the traps one by one until the last group standing makes it to the end. Perfect tournament style play, a perfect design by someone that was used to doing War Gaming elimination style.
Thanks for sharing!
@@DUNGEONCRAFT1 thank you for making another great video
Great breakdown of the tomb! Seth’s performance of 1970’s Gary was Awesome! Love how your players took on the challenge and their thinking.
Its neat, but not the best. Its just a series of death traps
That's fair. But thanks for watching and taking the time to comment.
I like your notebook approach to DM prep, the drawings add a nice touch! Thanks for the fun ride through this adventure, the D&D celebrities who appeared clearly think highly of you and your work.
I think it shows how differently people think after 40+ years. Back in the day, modules like this were part of the course. I remember a group of us being bored one day and my players saying how it was unfair that they never got to play high level characters (I almost always ran them from 1st up and they usually died). So I said, "Fine, you make up some 5th-level characters and I'll run you through at 10th-level dungeon. If you can survive, I'll make you 10th and start a 10th-level campaign for you." I ran them through some dungeon tiles with the random table of traps, monsters, and tricks. Their thief found a portcullis trap near the front and later they ran into a wyvern. So... they set up a trap for the wyvern, using the rogue at bait inside the trap area, and he survived long enough to run out and the others set off the trap -- sealing the wyvern behind the bars while they peppered him with arrows through the bars.
Today's players are different. They complain about modules, I've seen teens and twenty-somethings have fits at a comic shop over minor things, and they are stuck on their characters sheets. Not sure if it is video games, parenting, lack of imaginative activities, etc. but there is are completely different mindset with most folks under about 30 today. It's actually kind of sad.
Nobody is encouraged to think these days. Public schools exist to train compliance.
@@magonus195 really not much different than 50 years ago though...
@@magonus195 Public schools, single parent households, divorce rates, low fertility rates (i.e. fewer siblings and children / helicopter parents), technology (internet, cell phones, video games, UA-cam, etc.), more urbanization, fewer stay-at-home moms, less organized groups (churches, Scouts, school clubs, etc.), etc. School is as much a symptom as an cause.
I am not seriously witnessing an echo chamber of human regression discussion over the topic of fucking DnD of all things. What a bunch of arrogant snobs tying an unrelated problem to a subject they’ve been wounded over and are looking for blame.
That was worth waiting for. It certainly takes a team effort to plan ahead with roping everyone together and spreading out.
The thing that took the longest was setting up those minis and creating those shots. My guest stars are very responsible.
Seth is amazing! 😂😂 so glad you two got to do this module justice
TaleSpire is terrific. If you can't play IRL, it's the best VTT.
Great mix of insights from other gamers along with a "play by play" with your own group. Thirty minutes of fun and a great job of editing everything together. Thanks!
I love these collaboration videos. Truly excellent. Great story, great visuals and great performances by everyone. More Dungeon Craft, please!
Great video, Prof., really appreciate the perspective you and your collaborators shared. If I ever did run this for my players, I would want to set the appropriate expectation for them.
This was great!! Thank you, Professor. 🙂 And Deathbringer's idea of an ASMR lullabye is disturbing. That has to be the most brutally efficient way of dealing with Acererak I've ever heard!
Phenomenal vid about one of the first AD&D adventures I played as a kid (died about 13 times). One thing irked me though -- the iconic four-armed gargoyle is bought up several times in the module's "synopsis", but you never get to see that sweet Trampier illustration of it. Instead we keep seeing the same pic of a gargoyle miniature.
OMG, what a great video, enjoyed it a lot. Great collaborations, I will watch this many, many times.
What a great video. One of the best dungeon breakdowns I've ever watched.
Great overview. I admit I’m in the “I don’t like it” camp but as always picked up some good tips on running it.
Love all the cameos by other UA-camrs, but super love all of Seth’s “history of D&D” shorts so this was awesome.
I love these collab videos and this is the best yet! Thanks for giving this alternate take on the tomb. While i enjoyed xp to lvl 3s take i could tell that they took everything out of context. The fact that this was made for a timed competition, for highly experienced 1st edition players, really helps explain why the dungeon is so "mean" in it's layout and execution.
I don't remember how many of my characters died before we managed to get the whole way through. Definitely not a module for the conventional murder-hobos that we were so long ago.
Great video, brings back a lot of memories of late-night dice rolling (my stomach churns at the idea of eating that much pizza and downing that much Mountain Dew at my current age).
I loved this format ... super cool having all these guests.
Ran this for my game group a couple years ago using AD&D. Half the party died. They weren't able to kill the demi-lich, but half the party lived to tell the tale. They LOVED the experience of this classic.