Thank you for sharing your experience. I've been using the c1 for more than.a year and it felt right for me a lightweight rider around 55 and 65 kg using around 55-65 psi. I recently got a fork with the B1 and I fell like with the air pressure I like for nice sensibility the fork sits too low in the travel, even trowing me over the bars if I am not careful, in the other hand, if I put more air around 70 psi I really like how supportive it fells, but its to harsh for me even with no tokens. I think that b1 works better for heavy and agressive riders using high air pressure and c1 might fell better for light and not so aggressive riders running less air pressure.
Thanks for posting Telly. I appreciate you sharing what you have learned doing this test. You inspired me to try the C1 on my Lyrik but, like you, I'm back to the B1. Just could not get the same consistency out of the C1. It felt really good on some trails and then only okay at others. The B1 is the ticket for me. Thanks again!
Thatsmy ferlings as well. It gave me good vibes in certain terrain, but couldn’t show promise elsewhere. I find the B1 has a much bigger window of performance and is more trustworthy in varying terrain
Didn’t know where to put this so putting it here :) Something you may be interested in , check out the new nukeproof giga , their new super enduro bike It has a switch on the main pivot where you can adjust how progressive the rear suspension is while you are out riding .
I’m all for it! But I’m holding off until I’ve spent a lot of time on the stock shock to get a full understanding of the progression of the frame and the overall performance of the rear
@@mtbtelly5522 170mm lyrik ultimate on an Ibis Ripmo AF. I use between 90-95% of travel. Maybe on gnarlier trails I would add a token or add a click of hsc
Just a comment on putting the c1 footnut on the b1: It does not really make much sense to do it, as you will just rise the front up without getting the "lost" travel back. The footnut does not extend the usable part of the airshaft, therefore you will still be stuck with 160-165mm Travel on a 170 airshaft. The fork will only be around 6mm longer. So the only change would be in stack and head angle. Another thing that would be really interesting would be a test of a triple air-chamber solution (AWK or Runt). This is the same principle as it is used in the IRT of Manitou or Öhlins forks and allows you to tune the middle of the stroke of the fork. (Basically it is a floating piston with another airchamber in your positive chamber that acts like a token for the first part of the stroke (more support there) and then gives away at the end of the stroke in order to reduce the progressivity. This way you can have a nearly perfectly linear (+ ending progression) air spring. The developer of the AWK said in the German mtb forum that it works perfectly with the c1.
I’ve been thinking about the workings of the spring with the different footnuts. Thanks for the info, I wasn’t convinced it was going to be beneficial. After a ride today on it with the B1 2 tokens, its got a big window of performance and feels excellent
You're right. That's why I've been advising people to swap out headset spacers when they test B1 vs C1. "Usable part of airshaft" is a critical concept. With B1, part of its softness off the top is that it can overshoot its rest position into a pneumatic topout . But that means that the "lost travel" part of the airshaft is usable, not that you ever get to see it without a high speed camera. All speculative on my part. I don't have a high speed camera.
@@peaslaker your thinking is accurate though. Without that characteristic the performance would not be as high so its part of the overall equation to achieve that ultimate performance
I went from my previous bike Fox Factory spring to same Trek Slash 8 with C1 spring you were riding and since I am more recreational rider I like new fork better than old one exactly because of soft ride it offers. My hands do not receive so much strain and there is still enough support when big drops come. I am at 2 tokens. So I think you've said it well: C1 is for recreational.
Hello, has anyone tried installing the new seal head upside down and removing the top out bumper to get the negative volume back up to B1 like figures?
Hi @mtb telly, , I have seen this video multiple times in the past 2-3 years. All of your B1 vs C1 videos because I too was going back and forth the B1 and C1 but eventually settled in on the B1. I really like this model Rockshox Lyrik so I bought another one a Lyrik Ultimate for my Turbo Levo (ebike) and I'm a little lost with the setup and was hoping you can help. I like the feel of the front when charging over chunks and hitting flat turns. Confident level is just a lot higher. The problem is that when jumping, the front end just feels too damped. It doesn't want to leave the ground. Can you please advise if I should change the weight of the oil and other settings? Here's what I have now: Debonair B1 @170mm Charger 2.1 RC2 Open LSC/HSC I have tried 78-85 psi. 1 token. I can get the travel o-ring up to the Debonair marking. Rebound varies from 11-15 from closed. Rider: 5'6" 150 lbs or 160-162 lbs geared Bike: '23 Turbo Levo Carbon - 49 lbs Thank you.
@@SteveSUX2BU, Thank you. Appreciate the reply. I tried adding air from 10, 6 and 2 psi and the fork lost the damped feel but still didn’t match the rear shock’s poppy feel. Because I really like how this fork feels, I went ahead and ordered a better shock yesterday. Hopefully this shock will balance out the bike. We’ll see. Thanks again!
You can buy a 180 B1 and compare it to 170 B1 with C1 foot nut,and see the length,if 180 B1 is longer, that it definitly safe to put C1 foot nut on 170 B1.I have just order a 180 C1, and see if 180 C1 will works properly with B1 seal head then.If it works, then i ,ll have a 180 Lyrik with B1 performance but with out 10mm suck down.
I think the suck down effect from the seal head position is a necessary part of the performance equation, so I’m hesitant to change the footnut, also theres a risk of the footnut clashing with the sealhead at full compression
What you said at the end about the 'bike depression' is so true. But for me I feel it the most when my bike creaks, makes my bike feel cheap and like im riding a plastic bike even though its carbon ;) But yea for sure want the bike feeling good suspension wise, honestly ive never felt like ive had 100% control of mine, fork probably has grease in negative air chamber and rear shock is full of tokens but has no mid stoke support to pump the bike through corners or rollers. But ive just put up with it, not the biggest deal breaker but I know from watching your videos it probably could feel much better.
You are riding a plastic bike! 😂 We should get out some time and give me a ride of your chariot. I’ll see if we can squeeze a little more out it the setup for you
hi watched this video too much before switching back to the b1, can I ask some recommendations? got a 180 lyric did have 3 tokens at 85 psi on the c1, I'm about 76kg supper aggressive like yourself and like to huck. what do you reckon for the settings for b1 in the fork ? cheers for the awesome content.
So glad you’ve got it dialled ! So is the bigger negative chamber that’s the difference. Weird (probably not, I’m just an idiot) that you can’t negate the smaller neg chamber on the C1 with a token to get the same feeling. Mustn’t be much sag for 97psi, not that it really matters
I’m just under 20% sag at that setup, and it feels sublime absolutely everywhere. 96 is probably right on the money, but it just feels perfect and right at home everywhere. Man its good to be back on that familiar Lyrik goodness
Token mainly effects the end stroke. Bigger negative chamber + more pressure (for the same sag) effects mid and end stroke. Thats why people run megneg air cans on their shock for more mid stroke support
Hey guys! So, at the end what would be the ultimate setup for b1 spring 180mm lyrik ultimate? Please share your settings. I am 85kg ready to fly with 10-15 mm travel left after my normal runs 1token 90 psi, One more, as the b1 spring sits on the 10% mark, so 30% sag should indicate a real 20% sag right?
Nah I’m not sure about those sag numbers and the assumption of true sag. I’d still aim to have it sit around the 20-25% set up with rolling sag. Your token count sounds alright, keep the rebound fast and fine tune the pressure around that, keep the comp light at a few clicks from full open to start. Find a pressure that works on the trail thenfine tune comp and rebound
The hero dirt definitely compounded the goodness! But its a support and response feeling I was looking for more than just the grip. It feels much more stable and uses the travel much more how I like. It’ll be loose as a goose again in a couple of days so I’ll be back sending it dry to find the limits of grip. Solid question, the conditions can definitely give a false sense of performance
Hi, after 2 years, you are still on the fact that b1 is better than c1? and i've a aggressive trail bike with 140 front travel.... can be a perfect combo to put a 150mm airshaft b1 for compensate the few mm lost? after your video i'm really curious to try the b1....... more sensitive at the start and good midstroke right? ( in opposite to c1) thanks!! ps: my fork is a revelation turned in a pike ultimate
Love the vids. Am wondering about using the C1 foot nut with the B1 seal head on my 160 Lyrik. Is that a thing people are doing to get the best of both worlds and is there a detrimental effect you know of. Cheers.
My thoughts on it is it may take away some performance as it pushes the seal head up closer to the eq port potentially eliminating that ultra suppleness. Potential for the sealhead and footnut to clash at full bottomout as well. I think the suckdown the b1 spring has is a necessary part of the overall performance equation so you don’t wanna mess with the recipe
MTB Telly got a ride in this morn. B1 certainly feels different and better. A lot softer off the top and through the mid stroke. Needed just over 100 psi to get 20% sag and with 1 token in was using up all but 40mm which is ok I think. Compared to before I went to the C1 I was running a lot less pressure so possibly had it under sprung. It now seemed a lot more planted and less skittish. (2019 Trek Remedy 8) thanks for your awesome dedication toward perfection.
Have you ever considered putting your suspension related videos into a playlist and just send them to [insert any suspension company here]? I can see you working full time in this field.
Hey Telly. I have the same bike & fork, currently with the C3 spring with 3 tokens, 90psi. 75kg, aggressive rider, rough, fast and steep terrain. Any experience bumping travel up to 180mm on this fork/bike? What route would you recommend between a) 170mm B1, b) 180mm B1, or c) 170mm SoloAir with Luftkappe? I am considering all 3 and looking for more small bump, traction, and mid-stroke support. I had good luck with a Lufkappe + SoloAir on my previous bike, but have never tried the B1. Curious if the Luftkappe + SoloAir would gain anything over the B1.
The luft solo air is similar to the b1, maybe slightly better? But it seems hard to find a good tune at 180mm travel from talking to people. I like the B1 over the C1 for performance. I’ve not gone higher than 170 on my slash but I’d say it could work well. Theres plenty of room to drop the stem and accomodate for the extra travel
@@mtbtelly5522 Thanks man. Good insight as always. Thinking I'm going to try the B1 out in 170mm based on this vid. How much do you weigh? Curious how our pressures compare.
I don't get it. I thought the c1 is less supple from the top, but gives more mid stroke support compared to the b1. You are saying the complete opposite. I'm confused
@@mtbtelly5522 yeah , been riding it for a year and it’s been great , just starting to feel a little biit choppy recently , like it’s not quite as supportive, so I’ve put it in for a service , it’s overdue . I have only been using one token , but I probably don’t ride as aggressive as you so maybe it’s all I need . Might ride it how I had it set up previously first, then might give 2 a try . How much rebound you using ?
@@camwells9726 you’re on a 160 fork yeah? If so the 1 token at 160 will feel equivalent to my 2 tokens at 170. They’ll come back feeling as good as ever 👌🏽👌🏽
Curious to know this as well. I’m running the C1 on a 170mm lyric with no top out bumper and it feels identical to the B1 besides ridding higher in the travel.
No definitely not. Those bumpers are in there for a reason so I’m not gonna take them out. Also, the performance I’m getting from the B1 spring is as good as it gets. Nothing I’ve ridden competes so far.
Hi. If it's possible can you comment on how all your testing can correspond to a 140mm hardtail running the Pike/Revelation B1. Would you add more tokens on a 140mm fork or would you still stick with B1 and 2 tokens?
Thats hard to say without testing it. But on the last 150 lyrik B1 I believe I finished at either 1 token or none. Maybe suss what setup I had on the Norco Optic I tested
@@mtbtelly5522 Just saw the Norco reviews and I believe the latest you said no tokens in the fork (Pike Ultimative) and a Gnar Dog in the shock. So I guess you found the Pike C1 work well with no tokens but higher PSI?
@@mtbtelly5522 Ohh and you also kinda bash the C1 in the Pike on the Commi Meta that you also reviewed. I have a 50hour service comming up before weekend riding and I guess i'll let that C1 kit stay in the drawer for now.
Yeah nice video! I‘ll definitely stay with my B1 too and not change to the C1.. to stay a little higher in travel, would you put in one token (I run no tokens now with 58 psi at 57kg with gear) or would you put in just a little more pressure? When i put all my weight on the handlebars I get about 32% sag. Cheers
Haha all good. Yep I stuck with the standard foot nut, i was working it all out in my head to figure out the potential changes it would make and potential clashing, and decided to stick with the standard setups to be safe and keep it consistent and repeatable for people. Now I’m where I’m at I’d say changing the footnut is unnecessary, and could maybe put the seal head closer to the equalisation port, taking away some of the performance benefit of having the little extra negative pressure sucking it down like you get from the B1 setuo
@@jays604 never. If I use full travel on a fork it could spell disaster. I don’t ever want to feel the bottom of my fork, but the rear yes, occasionally I’ll tap the bottom of the shock, but only on a real hard hit or mistake. Fork theres always 15-20mm left over, rear shock usually within a millimetre or 2 of bottoming out
I set up my rear the same as you but I also try to set up my fork to use most my travel on the biggest drops/hits. I can never feel it but the sag ring will be almost to the top. I run 1 token and about 20% sag on the Lyric on my Patrol and I’m going to try 2 but definitely won’t be using full travel then and curious to see how it rides. I weigh about the same as you. Maybe worth making a video about your thoughts on “using full travel” It contradicts what most people do for fork setup.
@@mtbtelly5522 thanks for the reply man. I thought I saw in one of the videos that you used the old footnut. New to your channel here but liking how in depth you go into setup. Cheers.
On a similar not I’ve got a rockshox super deluxe select + on a 2020 Merida one sixty 700. It’s very soft in the rear and sluggish on the trail. Got some tokens to increase the progression. Would you recommend to go from the standard two tokens and add a gnar dog as a starting point. Suspect the megneg might be good for it but wanting to feel the difference first before changing too much.
I’ve not tested the Zeb yet, but I wouldn’t get a 38 because of the weight and the more complex spring design. I’m currently setting a 38 up on an Ebike and the performance is excellent. I’m trying to get a zeb to test
@@mtbtelly5522 Ok thanks. I’m still watching your videos right now haha. I notice I have similar issues with my zeb as you has with the new debonair air spring. A bit of diving, is it possible to remove the red hollow spacer and make a c1 into more of a b1 or is there more too it than that?
@@mtbtelly5522 I’m running 0 tokens, 93kg weight. 84 psi. 9 clicks of LSC from open, 9 clicks rebound from closed. 1 click of HSC from open. Maybe I should put a token in again... but I’m not using 100% of travel maybe like 93% up to just below debonair writing. Oh and I’m at 20 % sag. I would like to have it set for all out speed on roots and rocks I don’t do many large drops
@@mtbtelly5522 Hi Telly would be interested in your thoughts on 2018 150mm pike setup, been struggling to balance small bump with bottom out, have been swapping between b1 and luftkappe, currently on b1 at 90psi 1 token with 4 clicks of lsc and 10 clicks of rebound, I can never work out if I need add/remove tokens or adjust pressure! rider weight 78kg btw. Really enjoy your vids wish I could translate feelings into clicks like you!
@@mtbtelly5522 its a Canyon Spectral, I’ve megnegged the deluxe rt (after watching your vids) 2bands 0tokens 210psi 30% sag use all but last 2mm feels pretty good.
Hey Telly, I'd love to know what your 170 Lyrik rebound setting is (clicks from fully closed). I'm a similar weight and found pressures similar to yours work (high 90s psi, 1 token, 4 or 5 LSC from open). I've never settled on a final reboud setting. Any idea off hand what you're running in your Lyrik? Cheers. And keep up the awesome videos. Loving them all.
@@kleinkurti did you see the "suspension curve" provided by Rock Shox proving that the C1 is Better than the B1? Me neither! LOL Anyway, i say that simply because tried all those 3 options, and everflow is just far superior to the stock debonair. And my friends who has tried it says the same. But yeah, at some point they should dyno test it.
The truth! Fixing geometry ride height with an airspring is the worst idea ever (e.g. C1 small negative air). It's a "problem" which should have never been addressed.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I've been using the c1 for more than.a year and it felt right for me a lightweight rider around 55 and 65 kg using around 55-65 psi. I recently got a fork with the B1 and I fell like with the air pressure I like for nice sensibility the fork sits too low in the travel, even trowing me over the bars if I am not careful, in the other hand, if I put more air around 70 psi I really like how supportive it fells, but its to harsh for me even with no tokens. I think that b1 works better for heavy and agressive riders using high air pressure and c1 might fell better for light and not so aggressive riders running less air pressure.
Thanks for posting Telly. I appreciate you sharing what you have learned doing this test. You inspired me to try the C1 on my Lyrik but, like you, I'm back to the B1. Just could not get the same consistency out of the C1. It felt really good on some trails and then only okay at others. The B1 is the ticket for me. Thanks again!
Thatsmy ferlings as well. It gave me good vibes in certain terrain, but couldn’t show promise elsewhere. I find the B1 has a much bigger window of performance and is more trustworthy in varying terrain
Didn’t know where to put this so putting it here :)
Something you may be interested in , check out the new nukeproof giga , their new super enduro bike
It has a switch on the main pivot where you can adjust how progressive the rear suspension is while you are out riding .
I saw that. That would be a cool bike to test and play with. Hopefully I can come across one this year
@@mtbtelly5522 be interesting to see any of the nukeproof team race it , or if they stick with the mega and it’s more of a party bike
@@camwells9726 I’d guess they’ll stick with the mega but it’ll be rad to see it flex on some races
Same. B1 is the go. I also went to 2.5 wt in the charger 2 damper. Two tokens, 95psi in the 150. Shes very close to my 36 factory now.
Ah nice! A little lighter on the damper oil too, that something to consider. Spot on Kano
Sounds like you’re finally starting to settle into this New bike. I’m ready to see you slap a coil on the back and get this damn show started!
I’m all for it! But I’m holding off until I’ve spent a lot of time on the stock shock to get a full understanding of the progression of the frame and the overall performance of the rear
I suspect we'll see a D1 air spring next year, which will be closer to the B1 spring design.
I’m curious to see what they do with this in ghe future. You’re right, I can’t see them leaving the C1 as their finished product longterm
Great Telly! I went with the B1 as well. At 76kg 97 psi, no tokens and some compression. Feels amazing!
👌🏽👌🏽 160mm travel?
@@mtbtelly5522 170mm lyrik ultimate on an Ibis Ripmo AF. I use between 90-95% of travel. Maybe on gnarlier trails I would add a token or add a click of hsc
I might try 100 psi with no token and 95psi with one or two. But it feels awesome already
@@felipefarias7654 I’d add a token or 2 and find that ultimate control and spring curve. I think you’ll love it
@@mtbtelly5522 I'll give it a try, although I don't want to run below 95psi because that gives me too much sag to my liking
Just a comment on putting the c1 footnut on the b1: It does not really make much sense to do it, as you will just rise the front up without getting the "lost" travel back. The footnut does not extend the usable part of the airshaft, therefore you will still be stuck with 160-165mm Travel on a 170 airshaft. The fork will only be around 6mm longer. So the only change would be in stack and head angle.
Another thing that would be really interesting would be a test of a triple air-chamber solution (AWK or Runt). This is the same principle as it is used in the IRT of Manitou or Öhlins forks and allows you to tune the middle of the stroke of the fork. (Basically it is a floating piston with another airchamber in your positive chamber that acts like a token for the first part of the stroke (more support there) and then gives away at the end of the stroke in order to reduce the progressivity. This way you can have a nearly perfectly linear (+ ending progression) air spring. The developer of the AWK said in the German mtb forum that it works perfectly with the c1.
Interesting !
That might be the fix fir the C1. I will try something along those lines and see if theres unique benefits to be had
I’ve been thinking about the workings of the spring with the different footnuts. Thanks for the info, I wasn’t convinced it was going to be beneficial. After a ride today on it with the B1 2 tokens, its got a big window of performance and feels excellent
You're right. That's why I've been advising people to swap out headset spacers when they test B1 vs C1. "Usable part of airshaft" is a critical concept. With B1, part of its softness off the top is that it can overshoot its rest position into a pneumatic topout . But that means that the "lost travel" part of the airshaft is usable, not that you ever get to see it without a high speed camera. All speculative on my part. I don't have a high speed camera.
@@peaslaker your thinking is accurate though. Without that characteristic the performance would not be as high so its part of the overall equation to achieve that ultimate performance
I went from my previous bike Fox Factory spring to same Trek Slash 8 with C1 spring you were riding and since I am more recreational rider I like new fork better than old one exactly because of soft ride it offers. My hands do not receive so much strain and there is still enough support when big drops come. I am at 2 tokens. So I think you've said it well: C1 is for recreational.
Ok nice, thats good to hear cheers for the feedback ✌🏼
Hello, has anyone tried installing the new seal head upside down and removing the top out bumper to get the negative volume back up to B1 like figures?
Great info🤘 I want to try the b1 on the exact same forks but can’t seem to find them in stock in UK👎
You can buy any length b1 shaft and swap the footnut and sealhead onto your 170 c1 shaft
Hi @mtb telly, , I have seen this video multiple times in the past 2-3 years. All of your B1 vs C1 videos because I too was going back and forth the B1 and C1 but eventually settled in on the B1. I really like this model Rockshox Lyrik so I bought another one a Lyrik Ultimate for my Turbo Levo (ebike) and I'm a little lost with the setup and was hoping you can help.
I like the feel of the front when charging over chunks and hitting flat turns. Confident level is just a lot higher. The problem is that when jumping, the front end just feels too damped. It doesn't want to leave the ground. Can you please advise if I should change the weight of the oil and other settings? Here's what I have now:
Debonair B1 @170mm
Charger 2.1 RC2
Open LSC/HSC
I have tried 78-85 psi.
1 token.
I can get the travel o-ring up to the Debonair marking.
Rebound varies from 11-15 from closed.
Rider:
5'6"
150 lbs or 160-162 lbs geared
Bike:
'23 Turbo Levo Carbon - 49 lbs
Thank you.
I had a similar problem with a rear shock. A touch more pressure and a faster rebound solved it.
@@SteveSUX2BU, Thank you. Appreciate the reply. I tried adding air from 10, 6 and 2 psi and the fork lost the damped feel but still didn’t match the rear shock’s poppy feel.
Because I really like how this fork feels, I went ahead and ordered a better shock yesterday. Hopefully this shock will balance out the bike. We’ll see. Thanks again!
Flying mate! Love the channel keep it up man doing good!
Thankyou! ✌🏼✌🏼
You can buy a 180 B1 and compare it to 170 B1 with C1 foot nut,and see the length,if 180 B1 is longer, that it definitly safe to put C1 foot nut on 170 B1.I have just order a 180 C1, and see if 180 C1 will works properly with B1 seal head then.If it works, then i ,ll have a 180 Lyrik with B1 performance but with out 10mm suck down.
Need to check the footnut bottoming out on the seal head.
I think the suck down effect from the seal head position is a necessary part of the performance equation, so I’m hesitant to change the footnut, also theres a risk of the footnut clashing with the sealhead at full compression
What you said at the end about the 'bike depression' is so true. But for me I feel it the most when my bike creaks, makes my bike feel cheap and like im riding a plastic bike even though its carbon ;) But yea for sure want the bike feeling good suspension wise, honestly ive never felt like ive had 100% control of mine, fork probably has grease in negative air chamber and rear shock is full of tokens but has no mid stoke support to pump the bike through corners or rollers. But ive just put up with it, not the biggest deal breaker but I know from watching your videos it probably could feel much better.
You are riding a plastic bike! 😂
We should get out some time and give me a ride of your chariot. I’ll see if we can squeeze a little more out it the setup for you
hi watched this video too much before switching back to the b1, can I ask some recommendations? got a 180 lyric did have 3 tokens at 85 psi on the c1, I'm about 76kg supper aggressive like yourself and like to huck. what do you reckon for the settings for b1 in the fork ? cheers for the awesome content.
So glad you’ve got it dialled ! So is the bigger negative chamber that’s the difference. Weird (probably not, I’m just an idiot) that you can’t negate the smaller neg chamber on the C1 with a token to get the same feeling.
Mustn’t be much sag for 97psi, not that it really matters
I’m just under 20% sag at that setup, and it feels sublime absolutely everywhere. 96 is probably right on the money, but it just feels perfect and right at home everywhere. Man its good to be back on that familiar Lyrik goodness
Token mainly effects the end stroke. Bigger negative chamber + more pressure (for the same sag) effects mid and end stroke. Thats why people run megneg air cans on their shock for more mid stroke support
@@wordnz for sure
@@mtbtelly5522 New Slash geo with a dialled fork must be a beast !
@@wordnz Yeah, I’m running a MegNeg to get more small bump compliance without bottoming out. Has been a great upgrade on the 2020 slash
Hey guys! So, at the end what would be the ultimate setup for b1 spring 180mm lyrik ultimate? Please share your settings. I am 85kg ready to fly with 10-15 mm travel left after my normal runs 1token 90 psi, One more, as the b1 spring sits on the 10% mark, so 30% sag should indicate a real 20% sag right?
Nah I’m not sure about those sag numbers and the assumption of true sag. I’d still aim to have it sit around the 20-25% set up with rolling sag.
Your token count sounds alright, keep the rebound fast and fine tune the pressure around that, keep the comp light at a few clicks from full open to start. Find a pressure that works on the trail thenfine tune comp and rebound
Weren’t seduced by the hero dirt Telly? Might need to try the C1 after some rain too. Good stuff as always!
The hero dirt definitely compounded the goodness! But its a support and response feeling I was looking for more than just the grip. It feels much more stable and uses the travel much more how I like. It’ll be loose as a goose again in a couple of days so I’ll be back sending it dry to find the limits of grip.
Solid question, the conditions can definitely give a false sense of performance
Also I rode on the C1 yesterday arvo in the mud and that was the decider to swap back.
Hi, after 2 years, you are still on the fact that b1 is better than c1? and i've a aggressive trail bike with 140 front travel.... can be a perfect combo to put a 150mm airshaft b1 for compensate the few mm lost? after your video i'm really curious to try the b1....... more sensitive at the start and good midstroke right? ( in opposite to c1) thanks!! ps: my fork is a revelation turned in a pike ultimate
Yeah I still think I prefer the B1 to the C1. But can make either one work quite well
Love the vids. Am wondering about using the C1 foot nut with the B1 seal head on my 160 Lyrik. Is that a thing people are doing to get the best of both worlds and is there a detrimental effect you know of. Cheers.
My thoughts on it is it may take away some performance as it pushes the seal head up closer to the eq port potentially eliminating that ultra suppleness. Potential for the sealhead and footnut to clash at full bottomout as well. I think the suckdown the b1 spring has is a necessary part of the overall performance equation so you don’t wanna mess with the recipe
MTB Telly thanks for your response, that makes perfect sense. Will discard that notion and stick with the original config.
@@liambarr9936 you got that 160 feeling good?
MTB Telly got a ride in this morn. B1 certainly feels different and better. A lot softer off the top and through the mid stroke. Needed just over 100 psi to get 20% sag and with 1 token in was using up all but 40mm which is ok I think. Compared to before I went to the C1 I was running a lot less pressure so possibly had it under sprung. It now seemed a lot more planted and less skittish. (2019 Trek Remedy 8) thanks for your awesome dedication toward perfection.
@@liambarr9936 nice! Glad to help brother
Have you ever considered putting your suspension related videos into a playlist and just send them to [insert any suspension company here]? I can see you working full time in this field.
No I haven’t, but thats a great idea. Rockshox test crew?
Hey Telly. I have the same bike & fork, currently with the C3 spring with 3 tokens, 90psi. 75kg, aggressive rider, rough, fast and steep terrain.
Any experience bumping travel up to 180mm on this fork/bike?
What route would you recommend between a) 170mm B1, b) 180mm B1, or c) 170mm SoloAir with Luftkappe? I am considering all 3 and looking for more small bump, traction, and mid-stroke support. I had good luck with a Lufkappe + SoloAir on my previous bike, but have never tried the B1. Curious if the Luftkappe + SoloAir would gain anything over the B1.
The luft solo air is similar to the b1, maybe slightly better? But it seems hard to find a good tune at 180mm travel from talking to people. I like the B1 over the C1 for performance. I’ve not gone higher than 170 on my slash but I’d say it could work well. Theres plenty of room to drop the stem and accomodate for the extra travel
@@mtbtelly5522 Thanks man. Good insight as always. Thinking I'm going to try the B1 out in 170mm based on this vid. How much do you weigh? Curious how our pressures compare.
@@123imsamt I’m 75 full kit ready to ride. Will be keen to see how you get on with it after some time on the C1
I don't get it. I thought the c1 is less supple from the top, but gives more mid stroke support compared to the b1. You are saying the complete opposite. I'm confused
Yep, the c1 has more support off the top, but lacks it in the mid stroke, and isn’t super supple
Interesting , ive got the B1, never ridden the C1, and here I am thinking im missing out on something :)
You got it feeling pretty good as well yeah?
@@mtbtelly5522 yeah , been riding it for a year and it’s been great , just starting to feel a little biit choppy recently , like it’s not quite as supportive, so I’ve put it in for a service , it’s overdue . I have only been using one token , but I probably don’t ride as aggressive as you so maybe it’s all I need . Might ride it how I had it set up previously first, then might give 2 a try . How much rebound you using ?
@@camwells9726 you’re on a 160 fork yeah?
If so the 1 token at 160 will feel equivalent to my 2 tokens at 170.
They’ll come back feeling as good as ever 👌🏽👌🏽
@@camwells9726 as for rebound I’m not sure on the clicks, but its 1-2 clicks back from topping out during a bunny hop, if that makes any sense
@@mtbtelly5522 170 mm , 2020 nukeproof mega
Did you try removing the top out bumper on either airsping to increase negative air chamber? I've never tried it but some people swear by it.
Curious to know this as well. I’m running the C1 on a 170mm lyric with no top out bumper and it feels identical to the B1 besides ridding higher in the travel.
No definitely not. Those bumpers are in there for a reason so I’m not gonna take them out. Also, the performance I’m getting from the B1 spring is as good as it gets. Nothing I’ve ridden competes so far.
Hi.
If it's possible can you comment on how all your testing can correspond to a 140mm hardtail running the Pike/Revelation B1. Would you add more tokens on a 140mm fork or would you still stick with B1 and 2 tokens?
Thats hard to say without testing it. But on the last 150 lyrik B1 I believe I finished at either 1 token or none. Maybe suss what setup I had on the Norco Optic I tested
@@mtbtelly5522 Just saw the Norco reviews and I believe the latest you said no tokens in the fork (Pike Ultimative) and a Gnar Dog in the shock.
So I guess you found the Pike C1 work well with no tokens but higher PSI?
@@mtbtelly5522 Ohh and you also kinda bash the C1 in the Pike on the Commi Meta that you also reviewed. I have a 50hour service comming up before weekend riding and I guess i'll let that C1 kit stay in the drawer for now.
@@thorjensen2738 that was the b1 spring 2020 Pike Ult on the Optic, but yep, no token was killer in that one
@@thorjensen2738 I feel like they will revise that spring and release a new air spring again, along with a coil lyrik
Yeah nice video! I‘ll definitely stay with my B1 too and not change to the C1.. to stay a little higher in travel, would you put in one token (I run no tokens now with 58 psi at 57kg with gear) or would you put in just a little more pressure? When i put all my weight on the handlebars I get about 32% sag. Cheers
170mm travel?
@@mtbtelly5522 yes 170mm B1 airshaft
@@jim_morrison4583 I reckon put 2 spacers in, and try 65psi to start, see how that feels
@@mtbtelly5522 ok thank you, I will try that as soon as I can go riding here again. Cheers
@@jim_morrison4583 snow leave!
Hello Ryan! C1 is the newest and B1 is the one with 1cm of "dead stroke"?
Yes thats correct
Did you go with the b1 and the c1 foot nut? Edit : shit should have watched until the very end. sorry
Haha all good. Yep I stuck with the standard foot nut, i was working it all out in my head to figure out the potential changes it would make and potential clashing, and decided to stick with the standard setups to be safe and keep it consistent and repeatable for people. Now I’m where I’m at I’d say changing the footnut is unnecessary, and could maybe put the seal head closer to the equalisation port, taking away some of the performance benefit of having the little extra negative pressure sucking it down like you get from the B1 setuo
Dirt would have been so mint! So glad we got some rain.
The gods treated us to a healthy serve 🏄♂️
Love it! B1 all the way! What’s your sag at with 97psi?
Sag is around 19%, 5 clicks lsc from full open. Just mauls
Are you using full travel on some of your trails with this set up??
@@jays604 never. If I use full travel on a fork it could spell disaster. I don’t ever want to feel the bottom of my fork, but the rear yes, occasionally I’ll tap the bottom of the shock, but only on a real hard hit or mistake. Fork theres always 15-20mm left over, rear shock usually within a millimetre or 2 of bottoming out
I set up my rear the same as you but I also try to set up my fork to use most my travel on the biggest drops/hits. I can never feel it but the sag ring will be almost to the top. I run 1 token and about 20% sag on the Lyric on my Patrol and I’m going to try 2 but definitely won’t be using full travel then and curious to see how it rides. I weigh about the same as you. Maybe worth making a video about your thoughts on “using full travel” It contradicts what most people do for fork setup.
@@jays604 I’ve got a good vid about how much travel you should use from my perspective. I’ll try find it
Why didn’t you use the c1 with the c1 footnut as it’s meant to be to get the performance that they meant with that update
I did, I spent quite a bit of time with the C1 and C1 footnut. To me its definitwly a performance downgrade compared to the B1
@@mtbtelly5522 thanks for the reply man. I thought I saw in one of the videos that you used the old footnut. New to your channel here but liking how in depth you go into setup. Cheers.
@@650Dan nah I stuck with the standard setups of each spring. Theres not enough data to tell me thats trouble free. The B1 is excellent standard
On a similar not I’ve got a rockshox super deluxe select + on a 2020 Merida one sixty 700. It’s very soft in the rear and sluggish on the trail. Got some tokens to increase the progression. Would you recommend to go from the standard two tokens and add a gnar dog as a starting point. Suspect the megneg might be good for it but wanting to feel the difference first before changing too much.
@@650Dan yep megneg for sure. But til then drop a gnardog plus 1 token to start, or just increase the pressure a little at the two tokens
If you have tested them. Would you rather have a fox 38 or Rockshox Zeb
I’ve not tested the Zeb yet, but I wouldn’t get a 38 because of the weight and the more complex spring design. I’m currently setting a 38 up on an Ebike and the performance is excellent. I’m trying to get a zeb to test
@@mtbtelly5522 Ok thanks. I’m still watching your videos right now haha.
I notice I have similar issues with my zeb as you has with the new debonair air spring. A bit of diving, is it possible to remove the red hollow spacer and make a c1 into more of a b1 or is there more too it than that?
@@trialsiain whats your current token, weight and psi setup?
@@mtbtelly5522 I’m running 0 tokens, 93kg weight. 84 psi. 9 clicks of LSC from open, 9 clicks rebound from closed. 1 click of HSC from open.
Maybe I should put a token in again... but I’m not using 100% of travel maybe like 93% up to just below debonair writing. Oh and I’m at 20 % sag. I would like to have it set for all out speed on roots and rocks I don’t do many large drops
@@mtbtelly5522 Think I’ve found my issue. I used my topeak and it read 74. Pump is 10 psi out !
Try fox 38 grip2, will blow your mind!
I’ll be testing one coming up very soon, I’m pretty eager for it
Go home with Your shitty overpriced fox shit
Do you think you would have these same findings if it were a Pike ?
Yep, I tested it in a Pike initially and found that B1 was superior for control and speed
@@mtbtelly5522 Hi Telly would be interested in your thoughts on 2018 150mm pike setup, been struggling to balance small bump with bottom out, have been swapping between b1 and luftkappe, currently on b1 at 90psi 1 token with 4 clicks of lsc and 10 clicks of rebound, I can never work out if I need add/remove tokens or adjust pressure! rider weight 78kg btw. Really enjoy your vids wish I could translate feelings into clicks like you!
@@davidyates3521 whats your back end doing?
@@mtbtelly5522 its a Canyon Spectral, I’ve megnegged the deluxe rt (after watching your vids) 2bands 0tokens 210psi 30% sag use all but last 2mm feels pretty good.
@@davidyates3521 is that rebound 10 in from open?
I just got my slash u got any advice?
Slash 8?
@@mtbtelly5522 yeh
@@tobbyraymond2959 how much do you weigh?
@@tobbyraymond2959 id setthe fork up with 3-4 tokens and set the rear shock compression to the minus position.
@@mtbtelly5522 about 72kg
27.5 or 29?
Full 29er, 2021 Slash
Hey Telly, I'd love to know what your 170 Lyrik rebound setting is (clicks from fully closed). I'm a similar weight and found pressures similar to yours work (high 90s psi, 1 token, 4 or 5 LSC from open). I've never settled on a final reboud setting. Any idea off hand what you're running in your Lyrik?
Cheers. And keep up the awesome videos. Loving them all.
My lyrik rebound is 5 out from closed but will vary a click or 3 depending on temperature
You’re very picky. I have a Fox 34 performance step cast and all that I did was slightly change the rebound and set the air pressure up and I was set
Thats perfect. Simple and effective
You should take a look at everflow.it, it is a much better option than both B1 and C1!
Says who? There aren't even any suspension curves on the homepage
@@kleinkurti did you see the "suspension curve" provided by Rock Shox proving that the C1 is Better than the B1? Me neither! LOL
Anyway, i say that simply because tried all those 3 options, and everflow is just far superior to the stock debonair. And my friends who has tried it says the same. But yeah, at some point they should dyno test it.
The truth! Fixing geometry ride height with an airspring is the worst idea ever (e.g. C1 small negative air). It's a "problem" which should have never been addressed.
I agree
IMO c1 for lighter riders and b1 for heavier riders, from my testing. But as you know now, coil over them all!!!
All this coil talk getting me antsy
@@mtbtelly5522 ahahaha