The most accurate and clear explanation on UA-cam so far. You’ve actually explained it right: with the upgrade the piston seal is now lined up with the dimple. Whereas other UA-camrs have said that the seal head is now lined up with the dimple (which is incorrect). You’ve also answered my question why with the upgrade I feel better riding with less bottomless tokens (because the positive air chamber is now about half a token worth smaller). Thanks for your awesome explanation!
correct me if i'm wrong, but once you're on your bike and it sags, you're past the dimple anyway, so you're not going to feel that change in pressure while riding. You're not passing the dimple while riding the bike.
Great explanation! The best I've seen. Although I think it's a waste of money.. It's removing the small bump sensitivity (removing the negative chamber) to satisfy the small suck down issue which isn't actually an issue. Because nobody rides with the fork in the topped out position. Also the small dip that you speak of at 3:20 shouldn't exist as the positive and negative pressures should equalize every time the seal passes the dimple. You wrap it up in the last minute saying it's not as sensitive on small bump (because there's no negative pressure initially pushing the fork up). And I thank you for helping me save my money.
Just picked up mine at the post office and immidiately installed it. Didn't ride it yet, but I can definately say that it MAKES difference! Now the fork goes back all the way, unlike the regular that stays sagged around 10% and the overall feel along the travel is much more consistent. Absolutely worthy investment.
This is the first that I'm hearing the dimple was moved. I understood the only change in that regard was the taller foot nut to align the piston closer to the dimple. Excellent clarification. Good thing I waited to upgrade mine until now!
The dimple DID NOT move. Just the airspring changed. You can update any 2018 and newer rockshox Pike, Lyrik, Yari, or Revelation with it.
4 роки тому
Actually you can upgrade even older forks (just upgraded my 2016 Pike). One does need the complete air piston, instead of just the seal head and foot nut like the recent forks.
The negative chamber only inflates once when you compress the fork. This change makes the negative and positive chamber smaller. So you've effectively fitted 1/2 a token and reduced sensitivity. It isn't an upgrade.
I had this added last week along with the new charger 2.1 and bumped the fork to 180mm. Fork sits like it should, higher in the travel and doesnt lose that first 10mm. I was running 83-85psi previously at 25-30%. Now im running 75psi at 20-25%. Highlt recommend upgrade during a fork service.
I was just wondering this too. If they left the dimple where it was, and only adjusted the length of the air spring, you could make your 2020 feel like a 2021 by changing the air spring. So, did the dimple move, or no?
The dimple did not move, you can update any 2018 and newer fork with this new airspring. Also the whole video is basically wrong, they did this because Rockshox forks with debonair springs were known to "suck" down about 5mm-10mm with no weight on the bike. Effectively shortening your travel. Some people had the problem and some didn't, it's kinda dependent on your set up. The new airspring also gives better mid support, but at the cost of small bump sensitivity.
So basically RS has come all the way back around to the original solo air which had a schradder valve that opened at top out to equalize both chambers.
If you ask me, they should have stayed on dual air, that system worked like a charm once you set it up correctly , solo air is just simple version for lazy/dumb people.
When installing mine, I had a good look at the airspring and took it apart and removed the black bump stop in the negative air chamber. This, I suppose could be considered the megneg hack for the fork. I also installed the actual megneg aircan on my shock. Test day is tomorrow.
Look into Push’s coil conversion kit to see if it will work on your older fork. Supposedly the coil provides good small bump sensitivity in the first 65% of travel but there’s still an air spring for the bottom 35%. It’s expensive at $400 though; and that’s if it works with your fork.
So pre-2021 forks have the dimple in a different location? Is that accurate as this kit fits in the 2018+ revelations etc also, so how would that work?
The dimple is in the same place but the red part on the air shaft goes over the dimple at a different part of the travel. I’m not much of an expert but that’s what I’ve gotten from other reviews in this air spring
Wouldn't airing up the fork from full compression be the way to go? At "full travel" without adding air to the the positive air chamber (assuming you let all of it out for the install), you can set the pressure in the lowers to 1atm since the net force is zero. You would then air up as per normal, and assuming it creates a vacuum, it would have a net force pulling the crown downwards. This would probably be overcome by the positive air spring as it would be relatively small. Let's say it's negligible. If it isn't then, at least it'll help make the fork supple at full extension. Then when the fork takes a big hit and reaches full travel, it would theoretically be back to net force of zero.
5:36 i believe you are wrong. The red bottom foot nut doesn't affect where the top main piston seal head sits. If that was the case then different length of air shafts (different fork lengths) would result to different position of the top main piston seal head. The rest of your info is excellent!
hiya, not sure if you are aware but this wont fit as the 35 gold has thicker walls (32mm bottomless tokens) but yark, lyrk and pike are 35mm with thinner walls
@@sebastiancorominas strange you asked as today I changed mine that shipped with 130mm travel to 160mm by removing all 3 all travel spacers (each spacer equates to 10mm). All you need are the right tools, oil, cloths and a bit of time and patience. It is the same process as lower leg service with addition of removing damper to get to the all travel spacers where you need c clip remover
@@sebastiancorominas I can also confirm it takes the 32mm bottomless token the reba, etc takes (black ones) as had one spare and threw in for zero bottoming out
Got so fed up with not being able to set up my Lyriks how I wanted because of this static sag problem, I took them off my bike and replaced them with Bombers. They're in a different league.
Look into Push’s coil conversion kit to see if it will work on your older fork. Supposedly the coil provides good small bump sensitivity in the first 65% of travel but there’s still an air spring for the bottom 35%. It’s expensive at $400 though; and that’s if it works with your fork.
There is another review that after installing this upgrade seal head and foot nut. The pike ultimate become “harsh” or stiff as he describes. Is this the case? Check JCtrails review on it. I am on pike ultimate 2020. And im keeping an eye to upgrade this with some doubts. Anyone had this “harsh” or small bump sensitivity issues?
brady moritz I put a C1 in my pike and it lost the small bump compliance. I had to run really low pressure to get any small bump sensitivity otherwise it felt harsh. I’ve now changed back to the B1 debonair which IMO is way better for pikes.
Well well, what do you know. Rockshox 2023 air spring is more similar to the old B1 air spring with the equalization dimple slightly into the travel again. It seems this upgrade wasn't an upgrade after all 🤣. Just BS RS marketing. Even my fox 38 sucks down into the travel and oh they feel so good. The bleeding ports at the back of the lowers are probably a good thing. As burping or having negative pressure after assembly in the lower legs can suck the forks down too. So things are definitely getting better.
Good explanation, but I wonder why rockshox didn't put it in the first place building forks, yeah it's a marketing strategy but if this how simple they just wasting money people time and materials.
so wait, i took my 2018 Pike and upgraded w the 2020 air spring and charger 2.1 and now they came out w/ a better air spring?!!! gol damn bike components companies.....stop innovating!!!
Look into Push’s coil conversion kit to see if it will work on your older fork. Supposedly the coil provides good small bump sensitivity in the first 65% of travel but there’s still an air spring for the bottom 35%. It’s expensive at $400 though; and that’s if it works with your fork.
The most accurate and clear explanation on UA-cam so far. You’ve actually explained it right: with the upgrade the piston seal is now lined up with the dimple. Whereas other UA-camrs have said that the seal head is now lined up with the dimple (which is incorrect). You’ve also answered my question why with the upgrade I feel better riding with less bottomless tokens (because the positive air chamber is now about half a token worth smaller). Thanks for your awesome explanation!
the best explanation is this ua-cam.com/video/lB-dSrlYWRQ/v-deo.html&ab_channel=RULEZMANSUSPENSION
berawind no. Your suggestion can’t be the best if the tutorial is not in the most speakable language which is English.
I just finished my fork. Hudge difference like night and day 👌🏻
I hope in 20 years, after 20 Updates we will get the fork we need today!
Best explanation I’ve heard. Thanks!
correct me if i'm wrong, but once you're on your bike and it sags, you're past the dimple anyway, so you're not going to feel that change in pressure while riding. You're not passing the dimple while riding the bike.
Great explanation! The best I've seen.
Although I think it's a waste of money.. It's removing the small bump sensitivity (removing the negative chamber) to satisfy the small suck down issue which isn't actually an issue. Because nobody rides with the fork in the topped out position. Also the small dip that you speak of at 3:20 shouldn't exist as the positive and negative pressures should equalize every time the seal passes the dimple.
You wrap it up in the last minute saying it's not as sensitive on small bump (because there's no negative pressure initially pushing the fork up). And I thank you for helping me save my money.
Thank you! Best explanation I've heard. I'm going to try it!
Just picked up mine at the post office and immidiately installed it.
Didn't ride it yet, but I can definately say that it MAKES difference!
Now the fork goes back all the way, unlike the regular that stays sagged around 10% and the overall feel along the travel is much more consistent.
Absolutely worthy investment.
on a Pike or Lyrik?
Best explanation I've seen on this. Well done! Thanks for the thorough explanation!
Just got mine ordered in! Had been looking for this since day one riding on my Pike i noticed the drop in the start of the travel.
This is the first that I'm hearing the dimple was moved. I understood the only change in that regard was the taller foot nut to align the piston closer to the dimple. Excellent clarification. Good thing I waited to upgrade mine until now!
The dimple DID NOT move. Just the airspring changed. You can update any 2018 and newer rockshox Pike, Lyrik, Yari, or Revelation with it.
Actually you can upgrade even older forks (just upgraded my 2016 Pike). One does need the complete air piston, instead of just the seal head and foot nut like the recent forks.
Really appreciate the detailed explanation, as I’m considering the Helm or Pike
The negative chamber only inflates once when you compress the fork. This change makes the negative and positive chamber smaller. So you've effectively fitted 1/2 a token and reduced sensitivity. It isn't an upgrade.
MTB Scotland Yup. That's what I thought. More like an OCD fix.
seems pretty shitty.
Seems like this upgrade works with the Lyric but makes the Pike harsher.... anyone else feel the same?
The negative chamber size stay a same
@@ile911 no it doesn’t.
I had this added last week along with the new charger 2.1 and bumped the fork to 180mm. Fork sits like it should, higher in the travel and doesnt lose that first 10mm. I was running 83-85psi previously at 25-30%. Now im running 75psi at 20-25%. Highlt recommend upgrade during a fork service.
wonderful explanations and details!
Thanks for the explanation!
Excellent explanation!
Great demonstration
Dimple was moved inside tue upperlegs? Isnt it just in different possition thanks to different dimensions of the air spring?
I was just wondering this too. If they left the dimple where it was, and only adjusted the length of the air spring, you could make your 2020 feel like a 2021 by changing the air spring. So, did the dimple move, or no?
@@K-Schick I believe he guy is wrong and the dimple did not move.
The dimple did not move, you can update any 2018 and newer fork with this new airspring. Also the whole video is basically wrong, they did this because Rockshox forks with debonair springs were known to "suck" down about 5mm-10mm with no weight on the bike. Effectively shortening your travel. Some people had the problem and some didn't, it's kinda dependent on your set up. The new airspring also gives better mid support, but at the cost of small bump sensitivity.
The dimple "moved" relatively to the seal, not literally
So basically RS has come all the way back around to the original solo air which had a schradder valve that opened at top out to equalize both chambers.
It's a solo air with extra steps
If you ask me, they should have stayed on dual air, that system worked like a charm once you set it up correctly , solo air is just simple version for lazy/dumb people.
When installing mine, I had a good look at the airspring and took it apart and removed the black bump stop in the negative air chamber. This, I suppose could be considered the megneg hack for the fork. I also installed the actual megneg aircan on my shock. Test day is tomorrow.
well i guess you´re going to have a lot of fun and loud noises next time you bottom out..
How did it feel?
what about changing the travel? seal goes above the dip? or below if you want to lower the travel?
So what do I order for my 2016 chassis lyrik?
Look into Push’s coil conversion kit to see if it will work on your older fork. Supposedly the coil provides good small bump sensitivity in the first 65% of travel but there’s still an air spring for the bottom 35%. It’s expensive at $400 though; and that’s if it works with your fork.
would the 2015 pike benefit from the DebonAir air spring? is it compatible?
So pre-2021 forks have the dimple in a different location? Is that accurate as this kit fits in the 2018+ revelations etc also, so how would that work?
The dimple is in the same place but the red part on the air shaft goes over the dimple at a different part of the travel. I’m not much of an expert but that’s what I’ve gotten from other reviews in this air spring
Wouldn't airing up the fork from full compression be the way to go? At "full travel" without adding air to the the positive air chamber (assuming you let all of it out for the install), you can set the pressure in the lowers to 1atm since the net force is zero. You would then air up as per normal, and assuming it creates a vacuum, it would have a net force pulling the crown downwards. This would probably be overcome by the positive air spring as it would be relatively small. Let's say it's negligible. If it isn't then, at least it'll help make the fork supple at full extension. Then when the fork takes a big hit and reaches full travel, it would theoretically be back to net force of zero.
5:36 i believe you are wrong. The red bottom foot nut doesn't affect where the top main piston seal head sits.
If that was the case then different length of air shafts (different fork lengths) would result to different position of the top main piston seal head.
The rest of your info is excellent!
Contemplating whether pike ultimate or fox 36..
Fox 36 for sure
Hi! Great vid you know if this Will work in a 35 gold rl?
hiya, not sure if you are aware but this wont fit as the 35 gold has thicker walls (32mm bottomless tokens) but yark, lyrk and pike are 35mm with thinner walls
JB TECH thanks! So the debon air piston is 32 mm also? And to modify the travel to 160mm its vía spacers removal, not shaft changing?
@@sebastiancorominas strange you asked as today I changed mine that shipped with 130mm travel to 160mm by removing all 3 all travel spacers (each spacer equates to 10mm). All you need are the right tools, oil, cloths and a bit of time and patience. It is the same process as lower leg service with addition of removing damper to get to the all travel spacers where you need c clip remover
@@sebastiancorominas I can also confirm it takes the 32mm bottomless token the reba, etc takes (black ones) as had one spare and threw in for zero bottoming out
Jonny Brown thank you!!!
Got so fed up with not being able to set up my Lyriks how I wanted because of this static sag problem, I took them off my bike and replaced them with Bombers. They're in a different league.
Yeah, basically fox > rockshox
can you use it on 2018 RS Yari?
Look into Push’s coil conversion kit to see if it will work on your older fork. Supposedly the coil provides good small bump sensitivity in the first 65% of travel but there’s still an air spring for the bottom 35%. It’s expensive at $400 though; and that’s if it works with your fork.
Does this work with the rockshox 35?
i think it does. The 35, has also the debon air. I would not see why it would not work
There is another review that after installing this upgrade seal head and foot nut. The pike ultimate become “harsh” or stiff as he describes. Is this the case? Check JCtrails review on it.
I am on pike ultimate 2020. And im keeping an eye to upgrade this with some doubts. Anyone had this “harsh” or small bump sensitivity issues?
Apparently he used way too much fork grease and that's what jammed it.
@@sm-qw9mj he says he fixed that, and it didn't help
brady moritz I put a C1 in my pike and it lost the small bump compliance. I had to run really low pressure to get any small bump sensitivity otherwise it felt harsh.
I’ve now changed back to the B1 debonair which IMO is way better for pikes.
Jon Everett that’s true - i just sold my pike and got a Zeb
@@joneverett276 so it is confirmed this upgrade messes up the Pike... probably good for the Lyric, Yari and Revelation
i have debonair on my sektor
Heard that the new 2.1 is worst
Both chambers equalise only ones and stay equal!
Well well, what do you know. Rockshox 2023 air spring is more similar to the old B1 air spring with the equalization dimple slightly into the travel again. It seems this upgrade wasn't an upgrade after all 🤣. Just BS RS marketing.
Even my fox 38 sucks down into the travel and oh they feel so good.
The bleeding ports at the back of the lowers are probably a good thing. As burping or having negative pressure after assembly in the lower legs can suck the forks down too. So things are definitely getting better.
Good explanation, but I wonder why rockshox didn't put it in the first place building forks, yeah it's a marketing strategy but if this how simple they just wasting money people time and materials.
You should take a look at everflow.it, it is a much better option than both B1 and C1!
The 2020 Ultimate is this way
so wait, i took my 2018 Pike and upgraded w the 2020 air spring and charger 2.1 and now they came out w/ a better air spring?!!! gol damn bike components companies.....stop innovating!!!
I think you don’t need a whole new spring, sure can buy a then new nut and red seal and replace them on the previous debonair upgrade sping
Look into Push’s coil conversion kit to see if it will work on your older fork. Supposedly the coil provides good small bump sensitivity in the first 65% of travel but there’s still an air spring for the bottom 35%. It’s expensive at $400 though; and that’s if it works with your fork.
Just put a Vorsprung Smashpot in .....
I thought there is no air pressure in the lower legs, just oil. Air pressure is in the upper tube.
everything about this sounds like a downgrade. I'm glad I researched this before trying to "upgrade" my pike.
Just like fox did for years...
Excellent video!
Can you upgrade a Lyrik 2017 Dual Position?