The "Famous Musician Knew NOTHING About Music Theory" EXCUSE
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- Опубліковано 5 лис 2023
- Did Chuck Schuldiner of Death understand music theory, many might use him as an example of someone who was so creative because he didn't know theory, but that actually isn't the case!
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As someone who spent most of my guitar learning career avoiding theory (15 years), I can say with certainty, that time was seriously wasted. After I learned theory, so many possibilities opened up to me and I was also having more fun.
I didn't avoid it. I just had no idea of what I didn't know. I was self taught. But once I stumbled upon a little taste of theory, I was hooked and started diving deep. I think I improved exponentially as a musician!
The thing is, you still learn the theory either way, you just don't know the language to communicate that theory with others.
“The professional dedicates himself to mastering technique not because he believes technique is a substitute for inspiration, but because he wants to be in possession of the full arsenal of skills when inspiration does come.” -from “The War of Art”
When I taught guitar, I told my students that anything they know and understand about music is knowing some theory. As soon as you can play a simple melody you know some theory. If you can explain what you are playing to someone else, you know more theory. If you can't explain it but it sounds good, it still fits into theory. When students played things but didn't know the jargon, I would walk them through the musical pieces and explain to them what it was they were playing. It is a good way to show students that theory isn't scary.
I remember some guy on Facebook citing Steve Vai as someone who created great music without music theory. How I laughed! Vai was a graduate of the Berklee College of Music. Lol
Music theory actually opens your pallet to become more creative. I have heard this "Music theory" argument for quite sometime and realized that most people who shun the idea are always creating the same thing over and over again. This is a quote from an article "Still eager to grow, "Stevie Wonder" found time to take music theory classes at USC and grow himself even more as a musician. On his twenty first birthday his contract with Motown Records expired. This time around he wasn’t a little kid eager to sing for a living, but a bona fide superstar going into these negotiations.
And Stevie already knew his music theory quite well!
Totally agree. I hear these arguments all the time. It's the same reasoning behind "why do we need to learn how to read?"
It's a lazy attitude... and usually tied in with the resistance for learning something that takes some time and effort. Imagine learning the English language and never really learning any grammar rules, the conjugating of verb tenses, vocabulary and diction? You are basically learning the language by ear. Wouldn't you rather have several ways of expressing phrases than just limited to one?
100 Percent @@MusicTheoryForGuitar
these weird anti-music theory ideas owe to the misconception that music theory is a set of rules, like “a five chord has to be followed by a one chord otherwise you go to music theory jail.” but nobody that knows anything about theory believes this.
@@kage-fmI totally 💯 agree.
I am still very much a novice, but in my experience the more I learn about theory the better - when I put something together and it sounds crap, I am finding it easier to find something that sounds better. Of course, when I find something that sounds good (to me, at least!) and I know it is "wrong," I play it anyway, cuz it sounds good. I think Adam Neely nailed it when he said music theory is NOT a set of rules you must follow when making music; it is an agreed-upon way everyone can use to describe and analyze music. I think of theory sort of like a map - it shows you all the places you COULD go, but you still have to decide where it is YOU want to go and whether or not you like it there. If you don't, the map shows you other places you might want to try out.
I've heard this misconception of music theory for many years. It is refreshing to see a reasonably popular channel finally call it out.
Tommaso I thought about you the other day while studying vocal barbershop style arranging. I read that iv-6 is a common substitute for V7 because they are negative harmony equivalents of each other. And I was like "pffff... I know what that means... because Tommaso taught me music things..."
Am I the only hearing the iv-6 as a fist inversion of ii7b5 ? (which then substitutes the V7)
I started learning music on the piano at 8 years old. From 10-12, I studied with the soloist for the St. Louis Philharmonic. Two hours every Saturday morning. The first hour was learning theory on paper at her kitchen table. The second hour was on her Steinway grand. At the time, it was really a grind. How many 12 year olds want to be transcribling a piano concerto down a minor third on a Saturday morning? But later in life, knowing that theory got me into several completely different types of music and instruments. And they all made sense. That piano theory was 100% transferable to clarinet at 14 and bass guitar at 16. I'm 72 now, and I still use that knowledge daily when creating and consuming music. As much as I hated the learning of theory as a 10-12 year old, in retrospect it was the most well-spent time of my musical life.
Kids: Listen up, This man is steering you in the right direction. Learning the notes on your guitar is the biggest time saver you can invest in to improve your playing.
As Richard Feynman told it, his dad taught him the difference between knowing something and knowing the name of something. Take a bird… a robin let’s say… you can know the name of the robin in every language on the planet, but that does not tell you what a robin is. But if you can describe the robin, its plumage, its mating habits, what it eats, where it is found, how it hunts, describe its song, etc. then you understand what a robin is, even if you cannot say it’s name.
I've learned some music theory, and I have improved at least learning some songs without tabs. Still a beginner after all these years, but I know theory works.
Most people who say this are talking about reading standard notation. No good musician doesn't know any music theory.
Interestingly, Chuck took classical guitar lessons as a child. Not for long though, but after he got an electric guitar and amps he taught himself a lot more about music. Again, people who say this simply don't know what they're talking about and just making ut all up as they go.
This is so obvious. I remember playing with one of my first bands in high school and arguing with a dude who thought learning theory would “stifle his creativity” - so dumb.
Knowledge is always better then ignorance.
There are real physical reasons why music theory works. It's not just some rules that somebody made up. Another analogy is: you can play sports without knowing the gravitational and other physical laws, but they are still real, and it won't make you a worse player to know them.
Fully agree! Never knew you were a Death fan...that's so awesome to hear!
This is a very elegant response from a dilemma that really stems from pure human laziness. People avoid theory because from the onset it is incredibly intimidating and they don't want to accept that theory is a barrier to entry of being a musician. Due to confirmation bias, they will gravitate towards the anecdotes of successful musicians whom supposedly didn't need to know theory. Ironically, people like that spend so many years researching quick hacks and tricks (which hilariously are all excerpts of theory, but presented in a static way, omitting the understanding of the concept in lieu of the result). The problem with that is that it's like trying to navigate a labyrinth with a blindfold, you may feel your way around and memorize how to arrive at certain checkpoints.. But in the grand scheme of things you will either be confined to a very VERY limited segment of said maze or simply be running in circles with no clue of direction. In time, you will find this frustrating and resign yourself to being a mediocre musician. If you just stop, do the hard work and be a student of the craft... It's like taking the blindfold off fiber by fiber. Music theory isn't a directive on how to navigate, that's your freedom. It's just eyes to see the landscape of possibilities you have to navigate.. Of which there is a deep, deep ocean of possibilities. I am speaking from my own example. For the first maybe 5-6 years I played guitar, a lot of it was for a social outlet and to impress people. Which isn't a terrible goal, but it lead me to just wanting to learn the fancy riffs and songs everyone knew. I kept falling short, couldn't sus out the pattern of it all, just seemed like random numbers and shapes and nearly all the songs I learned, I could not retain. Once I got away from that and started learning music for myself, as my passion, I slowed down and just learned the theory from the ground up. Now it is easy to retain songs or even make my own music because I perceive what's going on. I speak the language. The sounds I hear in my head I can identify "the sounds like a minor 7 to a major 6/9" and I can translate random thought to concrete ideas on the fretboard. It's like magic. It's the opposite of constraining, it's freeing. I can play whatever I imagine, no guesswork, thanks to theory.
I avoided theory for the first 10 years of guitar because I was "too cool" for that. What an idiot I was! Since then, I've gone to uni for music and to this day, keep trying to learn more theory. It helps so much in so many ways!
I guess that they confuse music theory with knowing how to read or write music. For example, no-one of The Beatles know how to read a score but for sure that they knew very well the music theory. In fact, when they started they knew only two chords in the guitar and they crossed the entire city of Liverpool to meet a guy who knows the three chords and they return happy to their homes because now they have much more possibilities.
I started with music theory when I was young, but I can't read music easily at all, I kind of know, but I can say often some areas of music theory are like computer code, as soon as you did a job using a new language the old language will need refreshers. What I did though when young was look at strange scales and work out the chord shapes on three strings only in E so I could use the bass string as the pedal. The car metaphor is not really helpful for me, as a lot is about zonal recognition, whereas music as you say is a set of tools, to mentally apply to playing your instrument, it's like if you learned harmony in school, as soon as you get to the tools you grasp an understanding and that is where you want to run out of class explore that tool, apply it, and hear how the music flows forth. We are inpatient students after all.
what annoys me mostly is these companies who are selling midi chord progressions, and melody to go with the progressions, because what is far far more important is learning how to make those chord progressions.
Also there are overly expensive apps, which hear your singing, render it a little better than Ableton convert to midi, and suddenly you can hear what you sung tonally in midi. Now I am not saying this is bad, we all want a tool that can do that, but we also want to play it on our instrument. It's very important to be able to try it out.
I also think the term music theory makes people think its all about reading, we need to hear it first I listen to audio to learn, and actually a lot of music theory is learning by ear, to recognise what the the tool being used, can do.
Bingo!
What we really have is a bunch of people who never really practice, jam, or perform who obsess over theory and then blame THAT for why they suck.
There is no problem with theory. The problem is when people see it as rules instead of norms.
Hey Tommaso I completely agree with you. In my opinion even someone wants to take the "not knowing music theory" arguement i think of it this way. If you are a completely self taught musician who cannot read music or understand what is happening every single person has heard a chord, a melody, cadence, chord progression or lick and wanted to learn to play it and then used it in their own musical vocabulary. To me that IS music theory because you are learning a concept or idea and using it even if you dont understand why it works or where it comes from, However you are still understanding it sounds good and applying it to a structure. For me many times that's the first step i take of the music theory journey because I want to learn something that i like the sound of or find interesting and I personally like im sure many people don't hear a chord or progression and go "oh thats a "b7sus4 second inversion resolving to E7#11 chord". I learn the shapes and sound THEN understand what chord it is and why it works. However this is just my opinion.
You are the BEST resource for guitarists looking to be competent musicians on UA-cam. Great work.
I can in fact confirm that G major does in truth sound yellow. For your attention, thank you.
It doesn't hurts to know more !!
You are doing a great job. Musicians need to hear this.
Music theory has two parts: Terminology and Patterns. Patterns are templates for playing notes (e.g. "arpeggio" or "ii-V-I"). Terminology labels those patterns and their constituent parts (e.g. "second scale degree"). Music theory helps understanding (and remembering) music through pattern recognition, and to communicate ideas with clarity.
I need to learn scales. For 10 years now I have been stumbling around on the guitar. I need to learn the scales! Ugh, why did I buy that Martin?
Maybe you do, maybe you don't (at least not right now). Have you had a look at this playlist? ua-cam.com/video/WSB3iIkDy7o/v-deo.html&pp=gAQBiAQB
Hey Tommaso... you are absolutely and so right about it... I feel, it's a cliche that really good players do not know music theory... like if it was uncool to know theoretical stuff... Players like Jimi Hendrix knew well enough whether they were playing a Blues in A or G... And, I think, it's very often people who do not know anything about music theory that fall for that myth... It is, too, quite similar to the misconception that there are enormously gifted players because they were born with a talent which enabled them to play that good after they learned how to form some chords... No matter what amount of talent you are born with, everyone had to put in lots and lots of time and effort to become a proficient player who's not sounding amateurish...
Let's not forget, when you want to break the rules in order to sound good and cool and show something unique, you are better off knowing the rules so you can break them consciously...
So guys, music theory is COOL... once you begin to understand a few bits and pieces of the basics you'll recognize how cool it is...
I never studied music outside of school, but I picked up a lot of music theory along my musical journey these last 10-15 years. When I was a beginner, theory helped me understand some things, but it was also a limitation for me. BUT - and here's the important thing - after my knowledge reached certain levels, music theory has only helped me to understand what I'm doing and to explain to myself (and others) what I'm doing. And having a better understanding of music theoretically (sometimes I can't even explain things) helps me break out from some confinements, it helps me try things and experiment, because I have more tools to do it. So my core idea could remain the same, but I understand more what the chord progression is, and that my VI major chord just doesn't theoretically fit in any way, it's taken from another key, and could be the 4th or the 5th chord of that key... And that understanding could help me actually finish that sort of weird song.
You don't NEED music theory to be able to play an instrument, but any knowledge is good, and if you have a lot of knowledge, it's hardly an impediment. On the contrary! You don't have to be a theory savant, but it's a good idea to at least know some basic music theory.
8:50 This is still helping you because you can ignore it and go the complete opposite direction!
Well said! People think there are "not confined by music theory" and "play just by feel" and strum a bunch of cowboy chords.
That is the ultimate confinement!
But I now label myself as music theory geek, just to avoid any arguement with those people.
The problem is in me being so geeky, please just do whatever he want.
He will be unable to reproduce any "stroke of the genius" moments in his music, or never be able to hear whatever problem I heard in his music
Happy him.
7:02 I realized I was programmed by Vsauce2 to think "Wrong!" after hearing "Right?"
Oh I agree with what you're saying in your video.
I think people confuse learning theory with academic or formal learning. When you've got an instrument in your hand and you're trying to figure out how things works, you are in fact studying theory. I would argue that all people who spend a significant amount of time trying to create something musical has to a degree learned some theory.
1:48 However, Mozart never was incompetent in music theory.
His first minuet was arguably compased after his dad had taught him what a minuet form is.
He did get better though, when learning _even more_ theory. He didn't know Bach at age 5 when he wrote that minuet.
You can build a bridge that stands the weight it has to just by plain try and fail strategy. You COULD at least with a lot of time and resources.
Although, your chances to do so is a lot higher if you learn what Euler had already done in and written on statics long before you thought about building a bridge and follow his rules when you think it helps you and avoid where you can do something better.
I am someone who knows music theory, but came to it only in my 40s. (I am also a student who finished your online course-which I loved, thank you.) There are two things I’d like to share about this subject:
1. I don’t personally like what people label as “music theory”. Knowing what a minor pentatonic scale is or what a G chord is or a major third is (whether or not you know the jargon) is knowing music, not music theory. Music theory is knowing the difference between the various commas, it’s knowing what a tonnetz is and how to use it.
Just as there are people who can speak English well despite being illiterate, people who don’t know the difference between a verb and a noun, there a musicians who are illiterate and still make good music.
2, as a formerly illiterate musician, I unfortunately had plenty of experience hearing music that I thought sounded good, only to have someone with a mediocre musician education call it trash because it had a parallel fifth or octave or a suspension that didn’t resolve in the right direction.
Those people exist. And for an illiterate musicians, interacting with those people is evidence that music theory hinders you more than it helps you.
Do I think that? It depends. Music theory has allowed me to do things I never imagined I’d ever do.
If you have good teachers and a good approach, then music theory unlocks a massive world of possibilities. However, if you learn music in the traditional way which is (and was for me) strict and stifling and about arbitrary rules that were never explained, and you’re not the kind of person who is confident enough to realize that figures of authority are ‘t necessarily right, then yes, learning music the traditional way will prevent you from being creative.
It all depends on the teacher and the student.
1. I agree with you that we should just call it "music" and not "music theory". But at the same time, just redefining the terms like you propose may steer people away from learning good things.
I personally stand by the "wheel barrow test": if you can put it in a wheelbarrow, it is concrete. If not, it's theory. Since I can't put a "minor third" in a wheelbarrow, then it's part of music theory (ok ok, it's facetious, but it's a good heuristic)
2. I think you'll be interested to know that the "traditional" way to teach music theory is not the "original" way it was taught, and indeed it was invented to teach people who wanted to talk about music vs composing music. More details here: ua-cam.com/video/fVYy0O7dd3g/v-deo.html
My personal experience is learning theory has set me free to be more creative and efficient, not less. I understand it isn't for everybody to learn theory and I don't look down on that, I just don't think people should consider it the enemy of creativity without being able to definitively prove it.
I follow you because
Your Channel is plaisant and wonderfull to learn theorie. It’s very Good for my practice.
Don’t worry about the people who thinks they don’t need to know. They will not follow and appreciat your channel as we do 🤗
I have a couple of theory avoiding musician friends. They are very good at what they do but it’s pretty conservation and definitely not experimental. I’m not sure what they think they’ll lose.
I have made all my music by experimenting, fucking around/finding out, using my intuition, for the exception of when I was a new beginner, obviously. I know almost no theory (whether it's in composing, synth design, mixing and so on). I have developed a style that is completely unique to me.
I have noticed a pattern where I struggle to write when I am not feeling inspired. I think it's in these moments that theory would be useful to me.
However, when there is pain weighing my heart, or joy waving through my body, when I truly have something to say and something to express to the world, any need for theory, formulas or logic gets obliterated. My intuition takes over and I am able to create whatever it is that I felt like creating. I am able to express effortlessly, like the keyboard was part of my own body, and that the software I use was part of my internal organs. It all makes perfect sense, and within this flow state the music just writes itself.
Even though that state of genuine inspiration doesn't come often, I still don't chase music theory for when I'm not inspired. I don't see the point in trying to make art if it's not genuine, inspired and comes straight for the heart. I just practice my craft and get better until the next time I am truly inspired.
I think the problem with the conversation on intuition is that in reality, very few artists are actually talented enough to not need music theory and still create masterpieces. That's why you'll see a lot of people claiming that they don't need music theory make very simple and bland music. It takes an enormous amount of spiritual talent, raw skill and pure passion to delegate all the creative process to one's intuition.
I think a lot of artist should remain humble and see that there are gaps in their skill, and that it is perfectly okay to fill gaps with external theory. Especially since those gaps can slowly be replaced with your own internal theory (intuition).
But yes, there are very few artists capable of filling ALL the gaps with their own intuition.
However, I believe that the masterpieces of tomorrow will be written by artists who work solely from intuition. Artists who never need to be taught any rules or concepts.
I love Death! Thank you for your video! One example i can think of is the band "Carcass ". They started as grindcore and then they learned music theory and created a whole genre of melodic death metal.
Nice video. Good points, and well explained!
For me this whole thing is like an adventure, around every corner I discover new and exiting things. Some of them will make their way into my playing and song writing, some won't. Using or breaking the rules. In any way I'd love to understand what the hell is gong on here, why does this progression etc, sounds so good (or so boring)
When I started, I wanted to create something new, and I thought if I learned too much it would impede my originality. I wanted to express that unique music in my head! So I struggled along, sometimes stumbling upon things that sounded good. Years later, after deciding to drop the resistance to learning theory, I discovered that most of my inner music was I's IV's and V's in various configurations (of course!) and there's nothing wrong with that. The haunting melodies I tried to express were Dorian. If I had just learned theory from the beginning, without resisting it, I would be further along now, and being as original as I wish.
Sometimes folks call basic music knowledge, " music theory" so the word gets thrown around and means different things to different people.
If I tell some guitar player that the song is a " one, four, five with a six" I expect him to know what I mean and that the " six" will be a minor chord.
To some this is " music theory" ,lol, to others it is just something a gigging player is required to know.
I work mostly as a sub player. I am called to do gigs with bands with no rehearsal.
Often everything is communicated using hand signals. Two fingers means a " two minor" is coming up in the song.
For me that isn't " music theory" but just communication.
Now if folks want to spend hours rehearsing then that communication isn't necessary but it is very expeditious.
How can ANY Musician have a problem with learning Theory???
I don’t remember if Steve Vai or Joe Sateiani said „You‘ve got to learn all the rules of music theory just to forget them and play your guitar. Let someone else do the explaining.“.
Seems like I‘ve read this in Satrianis Book „Guitar Secrets“ but I am not sure.
Indeed. I'm doing the explaining. That's why you should take lessons from me, not from them ;-))))
Because I only need 8 crayons in my box!
:-)
I only need ONE crayon!
Well said!
Tomasso you crazy Italian shredder.
I am impressed that you know of Lord Chuck Shuldiner. If you look up the OTHER guitar player in death, you will find that he indeed does know theory on the fretboard. You can bet yer arse that came in handy during their writing sessions.
HAHA, of course. I didn't even think of checking the other band members. I should have!!
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar there is usually a theory nerd somewhere behind these players.
Yes!
Music theory won’t diminish your creativity…in fact, music theory will augment your creativity 😉🤣🎸
0:19 Maybe Chuck Schuldiner came up with his own music theory? Did anyone ever think of that possibility?
2:17 Of course, names always sound different when pronounced by an Italian with a Canadian accent. 8-)
2:46 Bingo.
4:18 Something I sometimes say is: I am actually illiterate, but I've figured out a way to decode symbols and turn them into words.
6:54 My opinion is that you can always forget things, so if you're learning theory, and find out it's hindering you, you just don't use it.
7:17 Magnets: How do they work?
7:32 And once again, I hit the nail on the head, ahead of time.
Great rant thanks Tomasso 😆. I think NOT knowing music therory is like "stabbing in the dark". Knowing music therory is like "stabbing with a gigantic bright white floodlight on"!! My rant is if you don't like music therory don't come to a UA-cam channel called MusicTheroryForGuitar for freaks sake!!!!
Another good way to put it is let’s see if you’re a gamer and you’re playing on controller or keyboard and you don’t know the names of the keys or the buttons or the analog triggers, but you still know how to play and you still know how they work just don’t know the names of them. I don’t think anyone would accuse you of not knowing how to use a keyboard or controller just because you don’t know the names of keys or buttons.
Frank Zappa knew his music theory and still made some of the most original music i`ve heard :P
Everybody who plays an instrument knows theory even if it's on the most rudimentary level.
I think that happens because people tend to see "music theory" as "hey! you have to obey this rules or else the music police will take off your artist license" or something like that 🤣. When, in fact, music theory explains "what and why that happened when you did that".
But some people are all like "I just want to break the rules"... and they didn't realize that, in order to break the rules, you need to know what are rules and how they work.
I do agree, but I think there are a lot of people who aren't very creative and mistakenly, think that music theory will give them a formula for generating ideas. Listening to these people's music could lead to the conclusion that theory knowledge leads to dry uninspired music.
Theory can be both descriptive and prescriptive. Both have their place because every genre has it's own rules that you need to follow to make music that fits that genre. But music theory is often taught in the form of prescriptive rules based on the western "common practice ". Don't double the third, avoid consecutive 4ths and 5ths, etc.
I think this is what puts most people off.
Oscar Peterson, Charlie Parker, Joe Pass, Jimi Hendrix, Guthrie Govan, Django Reinhardt, Charlie Christian, John Petrucci, Marty Friedman.
All of these players know music theory to some degree. Jimi knew what key he was in, the chords he played, he toured with Little Richard for cryin out loud.
For me the answer is pretty obvious. Pretty much all of those famous guitar players that didn't know theory sure played a ton of guitar; they played guitar for 8-12 hours a day transcribing records day in and day out and hung out after shows to learn what gear their favorite bands made those sounds. Then when able to perform they hung out after shows and learned from other musicians. At the end of the day that kind of time investment is unbelievably incredibly high.
I did actually use your method for learning the notes on the neck for a while. It definitely took me quite a bit longer than I expected to get proficient at recalling note names while playing. Now I mostly just recall notes mentally while running other exercises.
Every time I hear some famous player say they don't know any theory I just roll my eyes and laugh. It's just ridiculous that someone playing that long and that well somehow just doesn't know anything about guitar - knows no scales, chords, arpeggios, modes etc. Really what it is is a case of humble bragging. "Oh I am world class but never learned any theory"....just stop lol.
That is the Claw, not the yellow chord :P
Perfect repartee
It is far easier to learn why a chord is a " minor" chord than memorize a zillion minor chords on the guitar.
Same with why a "G7" is a "G7". ....Once you realize that you simply add an F to that G Major you can then do that all over the fingerboard rather than trying to memorize a zillion shapes.
You have two choices:
A) Learn why a chord is given that name
B) Spend your life memorizing chord shapes
Trust me....I am old, I have gigged my whole life. Choose " A "
The yellow chord. Can I have an H minor chord? Lol jk.
No I know people like that. Just kids that want to be cool and feel like they have a special gift. It's alright. It won't ever make someone worse at music, it'll just help them get which sound they may want is all that will happen, so they are able to express themselves better instead of being random. There's endless creativity, just gotta be different enough as a person to think of it. Write a sad song using lydian, write a happy song using locrian.
Even if Mr. Schuldiner didn't "know music theory", let's pick an example of someone who absolutely DID know music theory.
John Petrucci (of Dream Theater fame) attended Berklee College of Music in Boston with childhood friend John Myung (the bass player of the same band), where they met Mike Portnoy (founding drummer and now returning drummer of DT). There is a famous chromatic riff from the album "Awake", in the song "Erotomania". This is a prime example of using chromaticism to outline the chord changes. I bring this up, because I'm comparing Mr. Schuldiner's riffing style to the chromaticism of Mr. Petrucci here. Yes, it's comparing apples to oranges, a bit; but it's clear that Mr. Petrucci wasn't stifled in his creativity by music theory.
Is anyone going to argue that Mr. Petrucci, Mr. Myung, or Mr. Portnoy - all considered excellent musicians, who have influenced 1,000s to study and learn metal, bringing public awareness to progressive metal - were BAD MUSICIANS, because they went to Berklee College of Music in Boston?! I hope not. That would be ridiculous! Haha!
You'll be surprised how many people I have heard arguing that DT songs do not sound good because there is "too much theory" in them. I wish I was making that up...
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar , oh, I believe you. But I think that sort of opinion is just nonsense. Lmao.
It's fine if you dislike DT. We all have our own preferences. But just say they're not your thing. Don't try to come up with nonsense . . . /🤷♂ 🤷♂
Agreed 100%
As a child before he even had his first electric guitar, he took some classical guitar lessons. Not many, but that's actually where he started. After he got an electric though, his interest sky rocketed, and he started teaching himself after that. And what was he teaching himself? Music theory, that's all there is to learn other than technique and feel, and most players learn those just by playing a lot.
@@aylbdrmadison1051 , "he" being Mr. Schuldiner? Just to be clear, is all.
If you had learned English as a
child, speaking before writing,
the natural way you could still
be as fluent and correct as you
are but without such a strong
accent but many natives don't
express themselves as well as
you and they can't spell. That
proves that both formal study
and direct experience are of
great importance but should be reversed. I taught English
at Berlitz in Mexico and .I had
to teach that D after K must
be pronounced T as in walked
I told the Principal that came
natural and she said: " If you
don't explain the rule they will
say wall-kaid" I may be wrong
but doing something and then
learning why may lead to more
spontaneity.(pronounce that with no study and no practice)
You need both
People love excuses to not work at something. Gordon Lightfoot wrote out the chords and lyrical melody on the staff and made a fortune because he could publish it and prove he wrote it. There's a good reason for you. It didn't make his writing worse either.
The only thing in my life I wish to forget is the music theory :)
even the beatles knew one or two things about musictheory… (despite the fact that paul is unable to read notations)…
Anyone who thinks that the Beatles didn't know theory should check out "Songwriting Secrets of the Beatles" by Dominic Pedler. Even in the beginning, they were using unusual and uncommon chords.
@@christopherheckman7957
nowadays this seems very obvious, but in the 60ies this was a serious issue…
for me the beatles are a great example that as a coverband you can learn a lot about harmony, theory, structure etc.
10:57 I was looking for a like button to push, but found I had already done so ...
if the coen brothers had gone to elementary school and learned english grammar, the oppressive restrictions of verb-noun agreement would have prevented their creativity from unfolding into classic film masterpieces such as no country for old men.
i implore you to save art by abolishing english class!
:-))))
A quick reminder: A lack of music theory leads to something like The Shaggs' "Philosophy of the World." 🤣🤣🤣🤣
A dissenting opinion: I think that's exactly what music theory is. Why? Our ability to record music is very recent so how else can musicians share/teach/transmit their music if you don't happen to be carrying your church pipe organ in your pocket? Humans invented lingos that grew into systems to share/teach music. Greeks, Chinese, Japanese, African, Middle Eastern, and a thousand others all came up with systems to write down, classify, describe, or disseminate music so others could learn and perform it. So, IMHO, the lingo/system is important because without it how else can Chuck pass on his musical knowledge on without playing it for them?
I like this
I know that I'm probably going to regret this because I support what you're doing here, but when asked the question about examples of someone using music theory who had become somehow less of a musician wilith an education. The classic example that comes to mind would be that of a singer who in learning formality loses the distinction which their voice had come out naturally before beginning to use the techniques and guidelines they received from a teacher, but this is not the same as any other instrument because it id's of course 💯 housed and expressed from our own bodies. I am not saying that I believe this scenario is true or what have you, but it is one that I've heard used before that at the very least has a vaguely plausible logic behind it. But it isn't about playing a guitar or an inorganic instrument and so doesn't have aby real bearing on the subject one way or the other.
Yes, I've heard this scenario too, but when I asked for actual examples of this happening (not even because I wanted to disprove it... I am genuinely curious!) then nobody can provide anything concrete. And it's hard to comment on an hypothetical scenario so... But if someone here has an actual example of this scenario in mind, please DO write here! In particular I'd like to hear the before and after.
That sounds like a myth. There are many singers through history who had distinctive voices and sang beautifully with it. And I'm sure they had voice lessons. When someone "teaches" you how to sing, it's more along the line of breath control, controlling your vocal chords and learning how to hit the notes in the proper timing, etc.(Sounds a lot like guitar lessons, doesn't it?)
If your voice can't follow the pitch of the notes or the phrasing of the song, are you really singing, or just making a pleasant sound?
@dzl8596 yeah, I am not saying it's legit, but I will just provide a couple of examples so that I don't across as a total dupshit. But with the caveat that I think that learning music theory can be a net positive irrespective of the instrument 1st up Axl Rose_ his idiosyncratic style wasn't meant to last into old age and so like many other Rockstars he began to take voice and hired a personal voice coach who tried to cure him of his bad habits. Unfortunately the results were less than the original but as mentioned the likelihood that he could have continued to sing in such a manner wasn't very high either. After that it's pretty much horses for courses and centered around more rock stingers with a similar story from Anthony Kedis to name the 80s rocker. But with the genre of rock being partly about that type of singing to begin with you can see how this could be the case no?
@dzl8596 And to just follow-up I think this again speaks to the variety and number of the human vocal chords and how difficult it cam be to find archetypal one size fits all types of curriculum. Bur again _ I'd say most everybody would have a better shot at there full potential through music theory no matter the instrument, and irrespective of the challenges that said instrument may present.
What creativity do classically trained musicians have when playing outside the music would be frowned apon? There was a video on how most classical pianists brains can't play jazz.
You may not be familiar with my other video where I explain why academic music theory does not work, and that the old classical masters (ya know, Bach, Beethoven, etc down to at least Rachmaninov) were training in a completely different way: ua-cam.com/video/fVYy0O7dd3g/v-deo.html
Theory will tell you WHAT you can play with what! Not WHAT to play per se, but what you CAN play!
If Jazz players didn't know any theory, they WOULDN'T be able to comp chords or solo over those chords!
Jazz is far more theoretical than blues or rock is!
they are average musicians the same as all of us . recordings are being done by pros like the wrecking crew . thew want us to feel like they are gifted and we are not.
If Van Halen had gone to Berklee....?
You already wrote a comment about Berklee, then deleted it along my reply. Why are you obsessed with Berklee, and why you are trying to make my video a Berklee ad when I don't mention it? (or even particularly recommend it)
I love this argument against learning theory. “John Lennon didn’t know music theory and he did great!” So… are you John Lennon reincarnated?? Stop making excuses and work at your art.
I don’t understand music people’s pride in their ignorance of their art. Especially when some of the best composers - John Williams, Mozart, etc - have CLEARLY done tons of studying.
Yes! Besides, how do they know that John Lennon did not know any music theory? Because Lennon told them?
Just a silly comment of lazy people not willing to put the effort to learn anything about the matter they apparently "love". For me understanding the nuts and bolts of a chord sequence, which I usually find extremely hard to follow in most of the tutorials about it, that feeling of EUREKA is just an overdose of motivation to keep on learning.
But you can memorize a million jokes and still not have spontaneous wit. And you can learn a ton of musical theory and concepts and never have an original thought. People will think you are very creative because they are unfamiliar with most of your repertoire when in fact it is someone else's creation. Like the clones coming off the production line at Berklee.
So you can study music theory the wrong way, yes - like everything else. Could you point out where exactly in the video I talk about "memorizing" stuff mindlessly? No? Maybe because I think that memorizing stuff does not work, as I said in several videos?
Chuck Schuldiner is probably a poor choice on this video. His music is mostly in the same key and uses the same chords with the same repetitive riffs.
I am saying that he knew more than he let on. I didn't say he was an absolute master of everything in music theory. Also, there's nothing wrong in composing preferentially in one or few keys, and the repetition is an aesthetic choice.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar "Repetition is a form of change." -- Brian Eno
It is just an excuse to justify their laziness
Absolutely!!!
Almost all of todays “musicians” know nothing about music!
People who don't want to learn theory, don't know what theory is or what it's for.
By the way, if you can tune your guitar, you know music theory.