How Chinese L-Twoo is Taking on Shimano: 1 Million Groupsets Sold and Rising…
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- Chinese groupset manufacturer L-Twoo was in attendance at Sea Otter Classic 2024 which is a sign of their ambition to break into the US market. They also revealed some interesting details about their future plans, cycling popularity rising in China, the number of groupsets already sold and confirmed a full complete groupset is coming soon...
Content
00:00 Intro
00:30 3 electronic Groupset details
6:20 Full groupset confirmation
8:20 1 Million sets sold
8:47 Company ambition revealed
10:07 Compatibility and speeds
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I like the way he emphasises the positive attributes for more riders getting involved in the sport, while the other big players seem hellbent on alienating and reducing their customer base through price gouging.
I wonder do you really understand. People just throw around price gouging. But there are lower-end bikes and high-end ones. Different price groups. People acting like there aren't 500-dollar bikes and up. No, these big companies just have 10l price point bikes. Just getting ridiculous with the complaining.
@@Trissb1988-- people say price gouging when they don’t understand supply and demand 😂
We need more competition to break the monopoly (duopoly) to lower the prices and accelerate innovation.
Sad to see the negative comments when a company is trying so hard. Maybe folks just need to justify spending twice as much for their Big Name stuff.
Maybe people just don’t like buying Chinese crap. Or Chinese anything.
Used to be that way with Japanese....
@@cyclingnerddelux698guess where a lot of Shimano parts are manufactured?
@@cyclingnerddelux698i agree,we cant keep buying this crap from China or we will have no other options left eventualy AKA EV cars,going that way. 😢
Like it or not China is going to change many industries, auto and bikes especially now that they are innovating
I’ve been riding the eRX groupset for a month or so with no issues. Very nice product and totally worth buying
The Chinese component manufacturers like Ltwoo and Wheeltop are coming out with some really compelling propositions.
I just bought an erx groupset. Loving the quality of the carbon fibre shifters and carbon fibre jockey thing. It is refreshing that the 14500 batteries can be replaced for $10AUD if needed in the future.
I have the GRT-12. It works nice at first, but then the metal of the geartooths inside the shifter gets blunt and shifting becomes a hit and miss. But they will not deliver or sell a separate shifter. It will cost around 250 euro to replace both shifters. Seems nice and affordable at first. But the TCO will be way higher then a comparable groupset from Shimano
Yeah and the frustration of having an groupset that fails mid ride 40k from home could be a downer
That's my gripe over these new players at this point. If I break my shifter I can get a new one pretty fast I don't have to buy a set and U set warranty I can get one from Shimano in under a week and I fact I had a dura ace 9150 fail and Shimano got me a replacement in two days to my door by express post.
For all the ‘I won’t buy Chinese products’ people, good luck with that. LTwoo will be one of the major groupset manufacturers within the next 5-10 years.
I have the egr .. it's excellent.. the app is exceptional..
ps .. it replaced grx
Great coverage and nice to see new brands making their waves in the market.
David. This was a fabulous video!
Great video, your interviewee came across well. Super interesting for me as I have an ER9 groupset in the post. Looking forward to installing it and trying it out. Will report on it in my own channel.
L-Twoo out here lapping Sensah the way Shimano and SRAM left Campag to the history books.
Sounds good. Competition is progress
About time you test this groupset out I think 👍👍🙏especially the gravel version…regarding the gravel group,does it do double chainset or only single ??
Nice. I look forward to their foray into MTB groupset too. There will be hiccups along the way but I am convinced eventually they will be able to offer innovative specs of reasonably high quality and likely at affordable prices too. Step by step. Keep it up L-Twoo!
Looks like a great product. Replaceable battery is a big plus. I would definitely consider getting one. Million set in 2 years is way more than I thought.
good, instructive interview. David Lo is a good ambassador for the company.
Have the GRX 12 spd on my all China carbon gravel bike , it has been flawless, picked the gruppe up on sale for 260USD, after being a slave to Shimano for 50 odd years I aint going back. The shifts are perfect and being able to move 3 gears in 1 shift in the forest is gold.Brakes are strong and nicely dosable. If you are building a new bike on a budget you cant go past these 🙂
So you have Shimano GRX?
@@glennoc8585 L-Twoo GRT 12 spd 😆
I m a proper L-Twoo fan. Have the eRX set up on two of my bikes and will be building a 3rd one with the updated blue eRX version.
The most exciting feature for me is to be able to tune the position for the front derailleur per sprocket on the cassette. That really allows to fine tune the shifting independent of the cassette brand or even tolerances.
doesn't di2's fd auto trim based on the rear cassette?
@@jamble7k ah sorry you are right. I ment the rear derailleur 🫣
I like the way this gent nails the description of gravel riders as realizing "we can ride on the rocky road with speed." 😀
I'll be using that description from now on.
Yeah because we never road at speed on xc MTB bikes before....
@@glennoc8585 Have you ever tried to ride at speed on the road on a mountain bike? A gravel bike allows a person to do road, gravel and lighter cross country riding on the same bike and on the same day.
@@kippen64 yeah I can go quite fast on my MTB if I ride the road that is.
@@glennoc8585 You have my admiration because I can do 40+kmh on a road bike, but there's no way I can do it on a mountain bike unless going downhill.
I like the idea of opening up different markets. I hope L-Twoo keeps improving 😊
good stuff :) i was actually trying to find road shifters made by them but they didn't have one that would work with my setup. i was basically trying to convert my 3x8 mtb to gravel bike.
Looks good, time will tell.
Which gravel frame is that? looks like a pararera anemos to me.
I really hope that L-Twoo will grow further. I want electric 11/12 speed to be affordable.
The Chinese are coming along in terms of wheels, frames, and groupsets. Good to have more competition and the low price is nice. Need to eventually match reliability and longevity and after that shipping times, replacement part availability, etc.
Question should be what beta version is it?
Luke at Trace Velo has been using this for a while. We're seeing some big changes coming to cycling and a reset of the market with new quality entrants like L-Twoo, Elite and also Decathlon.
I wonder if that unibody brake caliper will trickle down to their mechanical shifting groupsets. Got my eye on the R9 for my commuter
There’s a few of these popping up second hand as dealer demo (approx 4000km ODO) for about $38,000 - significantly changes the value proposition.
More competition is great, looking forward to seeing what Sensah has to offer. Hopefully they'll maintain some development of mechnical shifting too.
The white bike looks interesting. From the seatpost it looks like an Elves falath evo, but the down tube is too round. Any idea of what bike it is?
Wow didn't hear about them before even though I'm in China... The China market is so divided that itself has so many tiers, the few big cities are just like the west, while the rest of the country is not. These companies are considered "knock offs" even inside of China... While the global market is actually much more "acceptive" if you get that price right and the product right.
That electronic gear shifting market change is a huge opportunity for Chinese brands, because now it's just step motor and softwares, which is something that China's very good at. If it were not this electronics change, there will never be a day such brands emerge. Shimano is pushing the price and making huge profits just from these small motors, anyone have a idea of how cheap these things could be made will see the huge opportunity here.
I have ZERO doubt about the shifters, because just like I said, it's really simple. If you spend few days in Shenzhen you'll see if you have enough money you can have your prototype electronic shifters made in weeks. I'll be more concerned with that hydraulic brake...
Ltwoo is great, had two mechs on two different bikes and they work perfectly, not paying silly money for shimano or sram if I don't have too :)
Im from The Philippines and im using ltwoo mechanical shifter I have it few years now still works im just not sure with electronic,alot of bikes here have chinese components..
Exciting stuff, especially with Shimanos supply woes holding up the market. Just hope with thier inevitable success they keep the prices down.
Please, please come out with a rim brake version!
Looks promising. What kind of guarantee do they have?
The kind where they gaslight you into believing it's only you who's having issues
0 lol you’re on your own when things are this cheap
@@Yeahwhatdoesthatmean cheap's relative when your stuck 40k from home
Unfortunately, no customer support. Check my comment and you will understand.
I would consider these, look out shimano
7:34 that white bike looks like a repainted Java Fuoco
IT IS a Fuoco indeed. I've one, and it's the same size!
I've been riding the ER9 groupset for over 2,000KMs and it's been great! Would build another bike with it in a heartbeat. Still would stick with shimano cranks and other cassettes though. Would be interested to see what they come up with for cranks, chains, cassettes, and bottom brackets.
thats only a few months of riding, give it time to rate it properly
@@ynslife I've had it for over 6 months now and ridden it as my winter bike in Vancouver (rain city). Think it's sufficient for the short term review. Long term unknown.
If the price is right and they are reliable I can see it doing very well.
My thing though is, will the quality of the product be any good?
Competition will be a very positive thing. They're ironing out the problems as they, they'll soon be a great option soon. Will be glad to try their products in a few years.
Interested, but give it some years. I once bought a chinese smartphone but had to give it back because the screen was uneven and I could not attach protection glass. Bad quality control.
Huawei was ahead of everyone else, that's why USA had to sanction them to death! USA believes in free market but not when someone else has the edge lol
All smartphones are chinese
I guess would be reviews or when they become OEM parts on bikes, I’ve only ever bought a group set (or at least most of it) once being Tiagra though did add a GRX rear mech for the clutch and few extra teeth ie it could take a 36 vs 34 T cassette.
I actually saw some on ozark trail gravel bikes that another UA-camr bought. Matty Active
Well, it is already as OEM on a French titanium brand CYKL a Gravel bike with E-GR is currently being reviewed.
They do not have any patent fights with Shimano or SRAM?
The founder and CEO is a former SRAM engineer who went on to become a patent attorney. His skillset is understanding how SRAM works and how to dodge their patents
Ha certainly explains a lot
What's the best way to order a groupset from Europe?
china cycling made a review of the groupset ,,,,,hope the customer service will be good
I do wish Ltwoo can make some changes to their older mechanical road groupsets. Aside from not being able to shift from the drops, the left shifter's blade is not strong enough, i can feel mine deform each up shift. The hydraulic version is much better, but ltwoo's instruction really needs to be written because it does not exist... not to the level of details of Shimano, but at least sram's please.
The full groupset is a really postive thing as user no longer has to figure out what works the best with what. And I'm eager to see what kind of crankset design ltwoo will use.
Ltwoo is the biggest out of all the Chinese groupset manufacturers. It has problems along the way, but it is improving and hopefully, we can see their products in action one day on UCI's event.
1 000 000 sets.. wow
but no auto trimming... no groupe for me
@@pawelodz8050 having ridden both Sram and eRX, the manual trim on eRX is better than the “auto trim” on Sram. Can’t speak for di2, however
@@grantmaiorana9741 hilarious
@@pawelodz8050You can thank shimano patenting autotrimming for that ;)
@@grantmaiorana9741 tell me how is possible manually trimming be better than auto trimming?🤭😂
Excellent presentation from the L-TWOO rep!!
There gravel rear derailleur and a mtb shifter for xc
i hope they release a full wireless version. I know its patent issue but Chinese companies does not need to comply.
Definitely try a Chinese brand next.
When I first saw this new group set I wanted to get one. Then some UA-camrs reviewed it and had a few problems and I decided not too. Now I've changed my mind again. I want one. The price is less than half the Ultegra Di2 price.
Yeah but they were also reviewing prototypes as well, they're like beta testers really.
@@Silidons91With Chinese manufacturers it seems to be the norm that all early adopters are beta testers. They come out with not completely finished products but then listen to feedback and make continuous improvements.
Same with Ridenow TPU tubes. There were some issues with durability of early releases but the latest iteration is faultless.
@@valmorell I've also been using RideNow 36g since late last summer with no leakage issues or flats until a few weeks ago when my front tyre picked up a very sharp thorn. One thing they haven't sorted out yet is the patching. It seems not to leak when I check the tube under water but then under pressure in the tyre it goes completely flat overnight.
Use Tubolito patch kit or Ridenows own brand, but the one with the glue, not the stock on patches. Stick on seem good for 500 miles or so, glue on indefinitely...
I think in two or three years L-Twoo will sponsoring a Pro Conti or WT team.
Cograts to L-Twoo for their group sets for road bikes and I am glad L-Twoo will be a competing with Shimano as Shimano has been getting too expensive.
It's long overdue. Shimano's quality has not matched its price point since we lost 10 speed mechanical 105. Cues with both drop bar and flat bar groupsets will cost more than L-Twoo and I'd be very surprised if they were any better quality.
Current 105 line is not good?
I still ride shimano biopace its been great, lately shimano is losing its way there new cracking and breaking carbon groupsets, worst is there slow response to this major problem
What does "Twoo" refer to?
LTwoo = Blue Prints in Chinese.
I stick to European Campagnolo. Niche.
1 million groupsets sold ?, strange as i live and work in mainland china and dont see any of the locals riding them....
im getting the 12 speed hydro , dont like the electric
The likes of Shimano, SRAM will be concerned about the rise of the Chinese brands and their venture into reducing their market share, and focusing them on their price point. Market disrupters
looks promising but.. as often happens, more attention is paid to the aesthetic aspect than to the substance and the reliability does not convince me. Still curious to try it.
Mom, why Shimano's rep is looking so green?
Interesting but I'd need to know the weight and price of each groupset to compare them with Simano 105 Di2 and Ultegra Di2. WIthout this information this is video is kind of pointless. Any serious competition is most welcome though because the SRAM/Shimano duopoly have been gouging us with stupid prices for way too long.
Will I be able to adjust the setup via the tik tok app 😅😅
Competition is good for the consumer. Shimano and sram will lose a big share of the market within the next 3 years, if they don’t lower their prices.
Similar thing happening in the cycling computer game with Garmin, Wahoo, Hammerhead, etc…
Get ready for chinese bot comments
Better value than Shimano
Define value.
That argument doesnt work with stuff that cannot be allowed to fail
@@ArteUltra1195What kind of critical missions do you accomplish on your bike that you cannot afford any kind of failure? 🧐
I'm a cranky old guy so I would never put electric shifting, let alone an AliExpress groupset on my beloved Mason. Hell, I will only wear a mechanical watch. A watch I have to plug in at night? Rubbish.
ok grandpa lets get you to bed
@@NikeonaBike Where's that dag-blasted remote?? Why, back in the day...snore.....
Ha! I can relate to that!
Tbh sram axs has become so affordable.. Yes MRSP is high, but nobody sells for that. You can find great deals and in the end match the price of L Twoo. Not to say that there is a lot of stuff on the second market because people unmount their shiny new derailleurs etc. from their brand new bike and sell them. For example people buy Apex/Rival AXS bike and upgrade them immediately selling the fresh derailleur for really good prices.
chinese quality
I would rather buy a Chinese group set than a Western brand fake from China. The China brands that will make it, are the ones that develop their brand over time. The fly by night companies that change their names will low end garbage. L-Twoo appears to be playing the long game. Good luck to their future endeavors.
There's another groupset now out if china and reviews were better than the LTWOO. I like the battery the guy showed that's a good idea ifvyoubcan swap the battery cells out if needed
👍
Nice but I’ll stay with sram or shimano
LTWOO,please please please come out with a rim version,some moron said theres more disc than rim which I believe isnt correct ,every house in this country has a rim bike & maybe more per household,in my case I have 2 disc & 8 rim bikes as Im sure theres similar,disc is fairly new where rim has been around for a very loooong time...forgot,I bought 2 LToo's the ER9 & Erx,Er9 on my Merckx disc,Erx on my Emonda,both work awesome,the app is awesome & simple stupid to use,so hurry with the rim version,I dont like the Wheeltop stuff
See the chinese guy in black mask walk up and listen?
I dont trust Chinese products. Who knows what kind of data will they be collecting in their apps and send back to the mothership?
I’d rather by inferior overpriced western brands because I am a mug
No I want to ride an ugly over priced campagnolo electronic groupset as they are "Italian". Even though most of their parts are also built in China anyway.
Wasn’t it pronounced “LT Woo” not “L Twoo” and the western world misinterpreted it?
Pronounced "LAN-TU" in Chinese. Translated into Blue Prints in English.
@@ronjeremie2656 interesting. I don’t understand the meaning.
Didn't know l twoo made frames. Big mistake of they're trying to run a business.
Quality costs. Said no chinese copycat company ever
I have a hard time believing Chinese owned and made .. Taiwan I trust more . Main issue is track record. Taiwan has been making bike parts and frames for decades. China also has but their millions of other products on Temu and Amazon which look good cost less but don’t last - that’s what keeps me away.
But, alot of "Taiwan" made brand, their part supplier are from China. It's like saying "I don't like soda, but I love coca cola."
Well said, indeed!
You realize you just generalized together literally a billion people, right?
it's the same development cycle that everyone goes through. Are Chinese-made phones and tech good?
@@laillosidgarbut the quality control is still in taiwan. Same with every other company that makes stuff in china. They have the quality control and customer service, and it is generally better than with chinese brands.
Oooooooh who’s designs have they stolen for this one
you're right, because all the bikes nowadays look totally different from all the mainstream companies 🙄
Shimano copycat….
I dont care what marketing nonsense you want to fall for. But bicycle engineering is about as simple as it gets. massive tolerances. No concern for heat management, pretty basic materials used,, yada yada… long story short. Shimano campy and sram has been ripping people off for too long. abut time more sensibly price competition disrupted that.
What percentage goes to the communist party?
I mean it's a pretty shameless Shimano di2 rip off, but it's about time Shimano and SRAM woke up and had some competition
if you're thinking about getting one...don't. unless it's for just curiosity or research.