Good to see the two most Aptera knowledgeable channels discussing the key points of the current state of development of the Aptera. A great service to the Aptera community. Credibility vs. uninformed speculation. A key point is the interdependence of factors relevant to tradeoff's needed to achieve a low cost, early available, first production configuration while preserving the focus on building the most efficient ground transportation vehicle. Refreshing! Balanced, neither Aptera fan boy or hard core detractor.
@@ApteraOwnersClubGuys, How does Aptera respond to questions about their using the ~30% more efficient perovskite solar cells? Might those be something we tinkerers be able to add/replace, while keeping the stock BMS, etc., components?
@@Crunch_dGH Aptera is a continuous improvement company and will adopt new, better tech as it is developed, without having to wait for a model year. However, these cells are not yet commercially available, and so far they have not demonstrated the service life or stability that would be desirable for a vehicle application.
@@n.brucenelson5920 👍Got it. Just wondering if their right to repair policies might facilitate such DIY work, whenever those cells become available. E.g., When Aptera announces their feasibility & availability a year in advance, but some knowledgeable/handy owners want to proceed on their own. Including scenarios involving whatever other tech is on the horizon. 🙂
Great conversation guys! Drew's interview was action packed, and it really benefited from unpacking all of that new info in this discussion. I had planned on having PPF over the Aptera wrap previously. And when I spoke with Chris about that at the Fully Charged show, he mentioned that Aptera may offer the option of getting your EV unwrapped. And he said that Aptera would be providing a cut template for wrap shops. Because many wrap shops have PPF/vinyl plotters that can use a template to cut a custom wrap that uses less material, wastes less, and is far easier to apply. That combined with the fact that the Aptera's wrapped surfaces cover only 1/3 of the body means that a rewrap or over-wrap should cost a fraction as much as a traditional car wrap.
Two gentlemen who are in sync with the collaboration of understanding what Aptera is, and where it is going. Thank you both, very much for your continued support, and fact checking. Aptera is lucky to have you beating your drums in order to get this vehicle on the roadways. Wish I could get over to see DriftX and hope somehow, we will be informed about that event.
Just because SMS is not encrypted doesn't mean you can't send an encrypted message over SMS. That's what I assume they will do. Let me translate that: You can send an encrypted message over an unencrypted service (like SMS).
Took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to post the same thing. There are plenty of APIs out there for doing encryption that they could utilize. I'd be surprised if they don't encrypt the data they send before they pipe it over via SMS.
100%. The wire or wireless frequency itself isnt encrypted. the only issue i see is block size and trying to get useful messages in 1 packet. Due to minimum block size and encoding you couldnt use 128 bit encryption with base 64 as 171 bytes is more than the 160 limit of a single sms message. Its possible ssms with a proprietary encoding could fir a useful message in 160 bytes. Edit: Looked into it more. using a proprietary base128 encoding they should be able to get more usage bytes and encode at a higher efficiency. sms is actually 140 8-but octets encoded using 128 available characters.
What they need to do is to use public key cryptography correctly: - the sender encrypts the message with the public key of the receiver - the sender signs the encrypted msg with its secret key - the receiver verifies the authenticity of the message using the public key of the sender (checks signature) - the receiver decrypts the message with its secret key When the public keys are given to the "other side", that can be done over an insecure channel, but their fingerprints need to be verified.
Alternatively, guess they could also use symmetric crypto (AEAD), but in that case they need to exchange the secret key over a secure channel - guess one could scan a QR code from the aptera's screen using a mobile phone app for that.
@@ThomasWaldmann Bluetooth can be used to initialize the relationship then use symetric. 131 bytes can be encoded and sent over SMS. PKI handshakes are too intricate to use over SMS and could be unreliable. SMS messages dupe or delay too often and as long as you include a sequence number the worst anyone can do is delay communication.
Thanks Steve and Drew for the rehash.. Re the carbo area . and reference, Chris A. mentioned he is ~ 6’ 2”. The Aptera UA-cam video for the LE, on their website… shows the cargo bed area as 40” W x 70 “ L ( ?) and the seats look like they are in the driving position in that dimension. I personally like hearing , in Drew’s visit video, about a Lithium 12v battery and the included 120v charger. For battery health… I hope to charge via the gentle solar trickle charge and 120 v whenever possible with my Aptera. I use Level I and II charging 99% of the time on my EV 6 GT line with great results. But you have to use the charging level that makes sense for your lifestyle! Who doesn’t want free Solar charging?! Level “ S” ? Thx…Keep sharing !
If they are going to make a tent for it, they need to make one that is insulated like a Crua tent so that it’ll keep in the cold air/heat so that it’ll be efficient. I’m looking forward to camping in my Aptera!
1. Many questions how the GREAT was able to walk on water. So the second time.... when Chris stood on Aptera roof..... am sure there bound to be questions and people looking under the roof to see if any tricks there ! 2. The rear appearing small, that is the black unfinished surface causing the effect. Also both we sleeping with head outwards. You will do that head towards the seat. 3. I camp in my Prius with a $20 hatch tent. It works perfect. I know many of us already do that. Am sure the Aptera will be much better then my setup. 4. SMS not good idea, data off mobile or personal device....AWESOME IDEA! Security concerns allowing user to use their own mobile plan is same as if using car's in-build mobile connectivity option. 5. Car Apps, let user be able to sync over own mobile device google play or apple app store. Excellent content Drew!
Back in the 60s, my father had a Rambler sedan. You could slide the front bench seat forward and fold the back down flat forming a large bed area. We never used it for that purpose but it was a neat idea.
Looking at that laying down footage, I was thinking that a simple hinged flap arrangement would extend the floor and fold upwards to double as a cargo barrier. It's not like most of us have the rear window option, so visibility is not impeded. My old 145 Volvo has something like this concept (from 1966!).
Dashcam (aka forward cameras recording while driving) is a lot more valuable than sentry mode in my experience...people conflate them but that's what I'd want first. I have personally used that footage to prove fault in an insurance collision claim. For a nasty door ding though, all sentry mode gave me was trivia.
Sentry mode saved me in an incident that had 18k in damage and got the person on camera charged. Take that for what its worth. Both are valuable in my opinion
"Sentry mode" can be as simple as record and store. No need to transmit or analyze in real time. Tesla uses 250-300w which over a year is like ~2.6 mwh and costs ~$1000 in california.
U forgot to mention that shorter charge times means fast charging stations will be able to handle more cars per unit of time. Instead of 1-2 cars per hour it could handle 3-4.
I'm one of those people that like the privacy aspect of turning off communication to your car from the phone (as long as you don't have to go into airplane mode). Presumably it would be through bluetooth or ad-hoc wifi. I also travel into remote places without cellular service so I need basic functional operation without wifi or cellular.
Great job guys as always. You guys discussed preconditioning your battery before fast charging. I bought a Chevy Bolt ( wanted to hold out for my Aptera but my junker crapped out, I just ride my bikes my wife needs the car). What is that, is it required etc. I just did my first trip requiring a fast charge and I did not do any "preconditioning" before plugging in. Thanks so much for your work Steve and Andrew!
Im wondering if they would sell one without a wrap too, or if they would discount it even. Seems like a waste too for people who will immediately remove it and put something else.
“Tesla navigation kinda sucks”. Drove a model 3 from LA to NAPA and back and ended up using Apple Map because Tesla was so bad. Using your own phone to provide these services is a way better idea for Aptera. ❤
This would be an issue if the vehicle has the cellular connectivity or if (like Aptera appears they're going to do it) the vehicle relies on the driver's cellphone connectivity --- what happens when you don't have cell coverage (in the boondocks)? Obviously, critical systems cannot rely on the cellular connectivity.
I would greatly appreciate if Aptera depended on my phone for connectivity. That way, I can turn my phone off and drive just for the fun of moving through a beautiful space. And you can turn off location on phone and privacy is perserved. Much appreciated. :)
Agreed. Plus, I'm already spending money for my phone plan, I don't want to have to pay more money for another plan, even if it is just to unlock "premium" features. I wonder how it will work though, do we have to have hot spot on all the time, or can they maybe get what they need though the Aptera app when synced via Bluetooth? I'm rather curious about this.
I realize that things change, I have been following Aptera since the first go around. I can also see that using Google or Apple Maps is a less expensive / faster way to make it to production and I'm all for getting to production as quickly as possible. (Their daily burn rate is still high and money or time are likely the biggest threat to Aptera making it to our driveways.) I recall back in 2021 Chris A was talking about their navigation system in that it would be far better than Tesla or Google maps as it would be built around the efficiency of the Aptera. Hopefully their navigation system will be in an OTA update down the road. Another great video. Like everyone else, I'm hoping to hear good news on the funding side. For me, that is the most important part. Without funding, everything else doesn't matter. Hopefully PI-2 will be made very soon as that should have a positive impact on funding. Gamma falls short on so many levels. Something I noticed on the LE spec sheet is the L1 & L2 charge rate. 13 mi/hr and 57 mi/hr. That is only 10.83A at 120VAC or 23.75A at 240VAC. I would have thought they would have 16A at 120VAC for 19.2 mi/hr or 32A at 240VAC or 76.8 mi/hr. Granted, you would need a dedicated 20A 120VAC line to charge at 16A but that is 153.6 miles of charge for an 8 hour overnight vs 104 miles.
@@AverageJoe928 if you have an output of 16A on a L1 evse such as Winado Level 1 EV Charger, 16A 25FT Portable Car Charger, 110-120V you need to have a 20A circuit. If you try to pull 16A on a 16A circuit, you will pop the breaker. On a 16A circuit, you can only pull 12A continuously.
PI-2 might be a while yet. Last I heard they were track testing Beta over in Italy to finalize the suspension geometry. Aptera engineers will need the data from this testing to finalize the aluminum frame design before the contractors can start making the molds to cast the parts. It might not be wise to build out another PI body until they have a frame to put it on. Also, the team in Carlsbad is working on the wiring harness in PI-1. Once they get that finished up then they can send the info to Yazaki. Yazaki will need time to create the harness, send it to Carlsbad for fitment and finalize the specs for a production harness. Again, a wiring harness would be nice to have on hand for PI-2, but that may take a while too. I suppose they could cobble some wires together to make PI-2 operational but it's hard to get around the need for a frame.
Thanks Steve and Drew, this is a great discussion! Drew, what were your impressions of stiffness and strength as you handled individual pieces like the rear hatch or door?
@@TailosiveEV Just as expected, but the confirmation is much appreciated! I have often wondered why the use of these materials hasn't spread more quickly and always come back to manufacturing time and labor. I think CPC's process takes care of these issues and is the future!
@@TailosiveEV- What did you expect? It’s a composite. It’s designed to be lacking in flexibility and light, yet brittle. Once it fractures, it’s worthless.
I'm most interested in Aptera's $25,900 model which is cheaper than the deal I got on my Chevy Bolt. Aptera can become the modern day Volkswagen Beetle. I hope Aptera will continue developing the low end Aptera to be as cheap as possible, with only two motors and cheaper battery chemistry, like Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. What would be better for people who live in apartments, or a car to take to college. What will happen with used Apteras? Fortunately they won't rust out, and because they will not be as recyclable as steel and aluminum cars, they can be repaired or restored many times. I even dream of setting up an Aptera restoration shop!
there is no 25,900 model. Both Chris and Steve have already concurred that their costs went up considerably when they chose to use CPC. Given that regardless how much you invest you cannot lock in your price also confirms it. Also Chris even stated the body panels cost them nearly ten thousand dollars... if you are expecting the prices not to jump you are in for a rude surprise.
We will see. I have heard no one at Aptera say the price is going up. In fact, their estimate that they can break even with only 6000 units would suggest they won't need to raise the price.
While I would personally love it if they could keep the current advertised price, I’d be perfectly ok with a slight increase in. Unfortunately the price is one thing that will most definitely change the longer it takes to get to production.
@@fourteenfour1 Why do you give false info? *Tooling* costs went up. With less waste and less labor, overall costs may have come down. There is no announcement or even information to conclude that no $25,900 model will be available. - that could come, but we don't have it now.
Thank you for the great video. Great seeing all the parts coming together. Looking forward to seeing the production vehicle on the test track. Love the design for efficiency mindset. Love the solar free fuel! I will wait for the glass rear hatch. Hopefully sooner than later.
It is possible that a model with a glass rear hatch should be re- crash tested, since the current configuration forms part of the rear crumple zone. We will see, but I would not be surprised if that option goes away.
I don’t believe it will 25% ordered no rear solar. The only reason is for the rear window. Not the money saving. Just a matter of how long it will take and have been told this by aptera.
Very informative visit/interview - thank you Drew! The thought of not getting it wrapped from the factory has crossed my mind & I will seriously consider it if it's an option. I will prefer our own color and material unless all the first ~2000 cars must look the same!
Agree. If the reason is simply cost reduction with one wrap, Aptera may negotiate to sell the car without wrap. I just wanted to see if others might be interested as well.
Remember how simple and how ubiquitous the Mercedes 240D Taxicabs were? That is What I want of the First APTERA to get to production! Sell 'em to all the World!
Given that they've talked about a 500# load capacity *including passengers* I'm fine with the exclusion of the third seat. I don't want to weigh my passengers and their bags prior to hitting the road as if I was loading a float plane.
I did a few calculations and it’s mainly the load rating of the rear tire. By the size they have and getting it in XL form, that’s the determining factor unless they stick on a bigger tire. I wonder what the load limit will be on the 1000 mile range.
@@billsmith5960 The load limit is 500 pounds for each range. That's what each suspension will be designed for. And it's not like something breaks if you load it to 600 pounds. All that will happen is acceleration and braking distance won't meet specs and the ride may be less comfortable. (You could bottom out on a smaller bump in the road.)
@@fotoguru222 - It's the rear tire. Only change to the rear suspension would be to raise the rear spring rate and raise the bump and rebound according to that ride frequency they want to maintain. The LE will have a curb weight of 2200 lbs. Highest load rating I can find for the rear tire is 88 (XL load rating). That's 1235 lbs. Add 500 lbs and the weight is 2700 lbs. With the bulk of the weight in the center, two 200 lb passengers and 100lbs of cargo in the rear. You have to assume 54% of the weight would be over the front axle to make sure you are at the rear tire limit. Since manufacturers don't want you to run at the limit of the tire, then Aptera has a low cargo rating.
@@fotoguru222 - Don't forget, the 600 will be heavier too. So it'll need a larger tire or just lower the load you can put in it (here in the US it's easy to find two people that weigh 250 lbs) that can become a problem. One other thing. You put yourself in a catch 22 in this situation. Heavier battery to get more range and you lose efficiency due to a larger tire and higher curb weight. The single rear tire makes it difficult as you have one, carrying the rear axle load as opposed to having two.
Sentry mode would be nice doesn't have to be too much of a power drain per se. I would need to think how to implement it. Cameras recording without running the screens may not draw too much power. Powering the screen is a major power draw. Just writing video to a SD card may be fairly low power. Proximity sensor power may be a larger power drain.
OR if they contract with a wrap company and that company can do printing, Aptera will provide the template and you could design or pick the color and the wrap company prints and wraps it when it comes off the line with the file or request you send. Unless it's some sparkly holographic stuff they may not have... then yeah.
They've said that Android Auto will be included. Apple Car Play is getting more attention because it requires a proprietary chip that Aptera can't get en masse until after months of validation. Android Auto requires no proprietary hardware and can be handled through over the air updates.
Battery pre-conditioning should be less significant due to the relatively small battery. Manual or none at all is OK to me. A flat 50kW DC rate may be plenty for even the 60kWh pack. It is the average charge rate that matters more than the peak. Even for the 100kW pack, spending a couple hours not driving will still be less charging time penalty over two days of driving than with other BEVs. Efficiency rules!
Hi there. I'm not a paid shill or anything, I'm just a dude who's been using the service for years, but Visible has a plan you can get for $25 bucks a month for unlimited everything on Verizon's network, with unlimited hotspot. I've used it all around the Charlotte area and it's never failed me for the car-related things I use, and it's great always having internet no matter what even when there's no wifi. Only catch is you gotta bring your own phone or buy one off contract for the full price, and there's no physical stores or agents you can call for support, they just send you a sim card and you handle the rest so it's not good for people who aren't tech-savvy.
@@ApteraOwnersClub I think they were talking about for OTA updates. Android Auto/Apple Carplay etc would just use the phone's internal connection, but creating a hotspot on your phone (or joining a wifi network) would be required for OTA updates.
In TailosiveEV's recent aptera video, chris mentioned you can connect the car to wifi. Assuming it can reach your aptera from your house/apartment. Or possibly driving to a local McDonalds or some place with public wifi is what i had in mind, if thats even safe from a cyber security point of view.
@@ApteraOwnersClub Interesting. If their app can move data through some sort of back door, I wonder if that would be through Bluetooth or WiFi. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they are able to do for poor people like me.
Many more people are wrapping cars for personal use than before. As demand increases so does price, also how the vehicle is wrapped also should be taken into account. Some shops actually remove body panels to wrap the edges of the panels.
@@n.brucenelson5920 My comment was mainly centered around painting vs. wrapping a traditional vehicle like the model 3. I definitely like the no paint aspect of the Aptera.
Without a data connection they cant do nav. That means relying on android auto/carplay for nav including charger nav that apple maps / google maps doesnt do. The best phone based nav is A Better Route Planner but I don't think you get details about your car or driving habits. Maybe with the paid version.
Presumably they could get data via your phone, alternatively the charger navigation could also be done via your phone if they don't host it in the car itself.
@@WyndStryke As EVs get more popular the critical features of ABRP and in vehicle nav are coming to android auto / carplay. Not bad to put the problem on the big companies to solve.
I'd be interested in knowing what warranty Aptera will possibly give on the battery pack and drive train. Like Kia give 100k miles or 7yrs on battery. And body.
I am confused... If the vehicle doesn't have a cell connection, what are you sending your SMS messages to? It doesn't make sense to me that your phone would be your only means for the vehicle to have external connectivity and still use SMS between your phone and your vehicle. That said, maybe SMS is being utilized between your phone and Aptera servers?
Your phone app would connect to your Aptera via the short range BlueTooth protocol and radio. It has much higher bandwidth but uses less power because of its short range.
I think what they're saying is that the car will have it's own sms connection, but that's just low-power, low-bandwidth, running on the old pager system. It's enough to send signals and commands to the car from anywhere, but for things like audio streaming and nav, it'll have to use your phone
The comments about 26:40 were helpful and a reminder. It was refreshing to hear. The core of this whole project is this: the most efficient ev powered by the sun. After that there are a hundred points of divergence, at least in my own extended family. Nevertheless, I'v seen what infinite never ending demands has done to the planet, let alone other solar car companies. Using available technology with new insights, pushing the boundaries of convention and innovation is absolutely smart, but, what is the focus? ...Me wanting heated seats for sub-zero weather? No, that's not the focus. It is the Big Picture of the car - a super efficient electric vehicle with great performance so efficient it can for most daily commutes be powered by the sun. How do we, I, embrace the greatest number and diversity of people/supporters of this car so we can all see this car come into existence? That is a question I need to keep asking myself. For my part I plan to continue to invest in Aptera.
"THE RARE INDIVIDUAL THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SMART PHONE..." that's me. i am that guy. My decade old tomtom is getting suction cupped to the window of the aptera. dumb phone stays in the backpack. the dash board on this car will be useless to a point. gimme one of those old fashioned mechanical odometers and speedometers, please!
Because the roof and the rest of the body is brittle. Once it breaks, it does nothing. So this is the reason it needs a steel hoop a bars that run down the A and B pillar. Also why it’ll have steel door bars and an aluminum frame to take the load of the suspension and battery. Contrary to what people say about the bink, it needs steel and aluminum to do the everyday work and for crash protection. If it was not required, they would not include it. When they stand on the top, that’s a static load. I want to see CA jump up and down on it. Let’s see what happens with impact momentum.
I'm not sure if I deem crash testing necessary before production. Personally I think that's a corner that could be cut, and then crash testing could be advertising after launch. I'm also open to this being considered a very bad idea.
For those of us coming from motorcycles, and who understand something about safety design, this would be fine - we know it is much safer in any case. The question might be more how the market would interpret such a move, even if they got it wrong.
Love both of your content, I was thinking about the sms messaging is a great idea. But playing the devils advocate here is there a way for Aptera to shutdown there software and somehow render the car useless? or will this car work no matter what without always internet connection? I think the data connection is intriguing but am worried of orwellian control from a centralized entity.
sms may not be encrypted but you could encrypt the data. I hope a lot of people in front of me bail on their reservation. I think I am somewhere around position 5k before the accelerator program. I set up an account to invest the morning when the program ended and missed out on getting one of the first 2k. I look at this car as my ticket to freedom.
@@njdevilku1340 🤔 Staying old school, huh? Well then you won't lose any essential car functions, however you will need to find another way to have music, podcasts, get directions and find any charging stations needed for long trips. You could always print out maps of charger locations at home from a computer.
@@fotoguru222 Well I have an iPad that I use for directions from home and if needed on the road, find McDonald's, walmart, etc. I have a dumb phone for true emergencies but I leave it off and charged. I cont like being on demand all the time.
Pretty sure they are NOT planning to use your phone, because they have talked about remote monitoring of how your Aptera is charging via solar, etc. Just that they will be senidng data over older cell networks and only using SMS.
For navigation they seem to be preferring phone. For software of the car they are building there own, but this doesnt seem to be using a data connection.
Unrelated to the discussion, it seems that Tesla maybe heading towards a major shift towards FSD and the Robotaxi. It is sounding like they may be canceling or putting the so called $25k Model 2, or at least the non robotaxi version on hold. It sounds like Elon envisions a world where everyone can't live without FSD and will be willing to pay $100/month for it and or not own cars and pay for robotaxi's to go everywhere. It might give Aptera some customers who are not willing to conform. I like the open source nature of OpenPilot and the low cost of CommaAI's hardware.
Greetings to enthusiasts of the most efficient aerodynamic electric car, whose mass production is steadily approaching! If we consider the Aptera as an electric car for long-distance travel, often to those places between cities where the cellular signal is not strong enough or almost completely absent, then how is it supposed to solve the problem of the lack of Internet and even cellular communication? For metal cars, amplifier antennas are placed on the roof, and the metal roof itself becomes an antenna collecting radio signals, but what about Aptera? So far, from what I have seen and heard, a mobile phone is supposed to be used to communicate an electric vehicle with the outside world, but its ability to pick up a signal is very limited, due to its size, even a tablet provides a much more stable connection and connection speed. Is there, or could there be a solution built into the design for the future, on how to stay connected on a long journey into the wilderness “to a house by the lake” (the Aptera solar roof will provide electricity and autonomy, but the rest?))) or has no one asked themselves this question yet?
I have 2010 Kia that i use my Android phone in. I have a winshield mount and a Bluetooth adapter that plays through my radio on a (configurable) dead FM channel. I have all the Google voice controls enabled. If I am driving with it connected to the blue tooth I usually listen to a channel on tunein rado or SirusXm from the phone and have Google Maps up.i rarely lose signal. But in the wilds of Oregon where there is no signal Google Maos will usally alert you when you punch in, or ask it to take you to a destination via OK Google if your route goes through areas with no signal and you can have it download the directions to your phone so that it will work when you hit a dead zone. As I sit here in my condo, I just said OK Google, find me the nearest EV charger, and Google Maps brought up a list. The nearest one is 0.3 miles away. I think that your phone would be no better or worse than a vehicles cellular connection
Can not buy the 6,000 unit. Unless Aptera at this time know the price and not telling us. Also, they do not have all the prices for the parts that is going into the Aptera. How can Aptera be right using the 6,000 number??😮
Even if they don't know all the numbers, by this point they know most of them, and can have solid guesses on the rest. It's a wild notion that they can break even at 6k/year, but note that they likely amortized all their set up expenses over the next five or ten years when they calculate that number.
@@shrimptopian3392 Show me the evidence you have that it was unrealistic in 2019. I fully expect it to go up, roughly by inflation. Anything beyond that is an open question
A few concerns: 1. I read this was filmed on a Friday and the bink showed up on a Monday. This is for wiring. So why was it not immediately put at a workstation and on a stand by at least Tuesday? Then the wiring guys at aptera be all over this right away? The clock is ticking and every day counts. Yet it’s just sitting in the same spot and people look like they are just playing around on and in it. Then, where are the employees? I’d think for something that they have been chomping at the bit to get, work would have started immediately. Yet empty plant and no employees. 2. No frame. Why wasn’t the frame developed and produced in parallel with the bink? Yet seems to be very little talk about it. There’s no IP about it as we seen the renderings a year ago. 3. What about the interior? Only thing I know is that it’s soft tooling just for the outer side. I’d think they would be working on that inner side so they can attach them to the bink as it’s nothing like all previous versions. It would be nice to see the engineering and R&D departments working hard on this (by showing it in the video) as opposed to spending a two week tour of celebrating just the bink. I hope April will show progress beyond just receiving the bink when it comes to their updates.
welcome to Aptera, seriously this is not a well run company. go read the glassdoor reviews. They don't have the frame or suspension because that fabrication is being done in Italy now and the castings were not complete even in March. As for why they aren't ready in Carlsbad for this BINC? Unless you see it with your own eyes you cannot believe any of their claims. They have never shown an actual wiring harness and only had a few shots of some BMS boards recently. In other words, they prepare for what is needed for the immediate interview to give the idea there is progress. They have put no effort into even making the facility look like a factory, all the equipment brought over when Vista was closed is still scattered about. When they had EVA tour in January the place was a mess with tools and work scattered on tables. There was no obvious effort to organize for anything. The tour displays have not changed in two years. They only recently stated they wrote checks for the seats but no comment on rest of interior. The wrote checks for exterior lighting but would not confirm if it was Magna. They also wrote a check to CTNS for some initial packs - yeah they are paying CTNS - it is not the other way around as some fans claimed. Plus remember who did this video, Drew is a fanboy extreme so they know how to handle him and he will never put questions in the video he asks but does not get a reply on.
@@fotoguru222 - What? The bink did not exist last year. CEO specifically told you and I that they were using this for wiring harnesses. This is not the older versions of it where they were vacuum formed resin. If by chance the harness exists, then put it in and show people working on it. Yet they still are playing around with it, doing funny videos. Not a single wire in it.
Maybe my eyes are bad but it looks really dirty. I have had carbon fiber bicycles and have some in my car now. It didn't look like that. Maybe it looks different in person?
What type of carbon fibre are you comparing it to? The CPC process uses chopped fibres which randomly orientate in the substrate, but some carbon fibre is done using sheets of woven fibre (if done like this, it has a square pattern).
@@WyndStryke If I were to guess based on what you just said the second option. Look up Genesis GV70 Carbon Fiber. If you look at images you will see what I am seeing.
@@Fairburne69 Yeah your car is using the second type (based on woven sheets), which is why it looks different. The type that Aptera is using is sometimes called 'forged carbon fibre', and looks a lot more random. The reason is that it can be mass-produced quickly (which is being done by CPC Group in Modena, Italy).
Thanks Steve and Drew, this is a great discussion! Drew, what were your impressions of stiffness and strength as you handled individual pieces like the rear hatch or door?
Good to see the two most Aptera knowledgeable channels discussing the key points of the current state of development of the Aptera. A great service to the Aptera community. Credibility vs. uninformed speculation. A key point is the interdependence of factors relevant to tradeoff's needed to achieve a low cost, early available, first production configuration while preserving the focus on building the most efficient ground transportation vehicle. Refreshing! Balanced, neither Aptera fan boy or hard core detractor.
Thanks for having me on Steve! Always a pleasure 👊🏼
Thanks for taking time to do this Drew. Always enjoy chatting with you!
@@ApteraOwnersClubGuys, How does Aptera respond to questions about their using the ~30% more efficient perovskite solar cells? Might those be something we tinkerers be able to add/replace, while keeping the stock BMS, etc., components?
@@Crunch_dGH Aptera is a continuous improvement company and will adopt new, better tech as it is developed, without having to wait for a model year.
However, these cells are not yet commercially available, and so far they have not demonstrated the service life or stability that would be desirable for a vehicle application.
@@n.brucenelson5920 👍Got it. Just wondering if their right to repair policies might facilitate such DIY work, whenever those cells become available. E.g., When Aptera announces their feasibility & availability a year in advance, but some knowledgeable/handy owners want to proceed on their own. Including scenarios involving whatever other tech is on the horizon. 🙂
Love the collaboration, thanks guys for your time and effort.
Great video Drew. Thanks for taking the time to show Aptera’s progress and asking great questions.
Great video and Drew with Tailosive has also become a favorite channel for EV news .
Great conversation guys! Drew's interview was action packed, and it really benefited from unpacking all of that new info in this discussion. I had planned on having PPF over the Aptera wrap previously. And when I spoke with Chris about that at the Fully Charged show, he mentioned that Aptera may offer the option of getting your EV unwrapped. And he said that Aptera would be providing a cut template for wrap shops. Because many wrap shops have PPF/vinyl plotters that can use a template to cut a custom wrap that uses less material, wastes less, and is far easier to apply. That combined with the fact that the Aptera's wrapped surfaces cover only 1/3 of the body means that a rewrap or over-wrap should cost a fraction as much as a traditional car wrap.
Two gentlemen who are in sync with the collaboration of understanding what Aptera is, and where it is going. Thank you both, very much for your continued support, and fact checking. Aptera is lucky to have you beating your drums in order to get this vehicle on the roadways. Wish I could get over to see DriftX and hope somehow, we will be informed about that event.
Great discussion and collaboration, Steve and Drew! Thanks for doing this! Looking at 2025 for some deliveries... we're getting closer.
Just because SMS is not encrypted doesn't mean you can't send an encrypted message over SMS. That's what I assume they will do.
Let me translate that: You can send an encrypted message over an unencrypted service (like SMS).
Took the words right out of my mouth. I was about to post the same thing. There are plenty of APIs out there for doing encryption that they could utilize. I'd be surprised if they don't encrypt the data they send before they pipe it over via SMS.
100%. The wire or wireless frequency itself isnt encrypted. the only issue i see is block size and trying to get useful messages in 1 packet. Due to minimum block size and encoding you couldnt use 128 bit encryption with base 64 as 171 bytes is more than the 160 limit of a single sms message. Its possible ssms with a proprietary encoding could fir a useful message in 160 bytes.
Edit: Looked into it more. using a proprietary base128 encoding they should be able to get more usage bytes and encode at a higher efficiency. sms is actually 140 8-but octets encoded using 128 available characters.
What they need to do is to use public key cryptography correctly:
- the sender encrypts the message with the public key of the receiver
- the sender signs the encrypted msg with its secret key
- the receiver verifies the authenticity of the message using the public key of the sender (checks signature)
- the receiver decrypts the message with its secret key
When the public keys are given to the "other side", that can be done over an insecure channel, but their fingerprints need to be verified.
Alternatively, guess they could also use symmetric crypto (AEAD), but in that case they need to exchange the secret key over a secure channel - guess one could scan a QR code from the aptera's screen using a mobile phone app for that.
@@ThomasWaldmann Bluetooth can be used to initialize the relationship then use symetric. 131 bytes can be encoded and sent over SMS. PKI handshakes are too intricate to use over SMS and could be unreliable. SMS messages dupe or delay too often and as long as you include a sequence number the worst anyone can do is delay communication.
Thanks Steve and Drew for the rehash.. Re the carbo area . and reference, Chris A. mentioned he is ~ 6’ 2”. The Aptera UA-cam video for the LE, on their website… shows the cargo bed area as 40” W x 70 “ L ( ?) and the seats look like they are in the driving position in that dimension.
I personally like hearing , in Drew’s visit video, about a Lithium 12v battery and the included 120v charger.
For battery health… I hope to charge via the gentle solar trickle charge and 120 v whenever possible with my Aptera. I use Level I and II charging 99% of the time on my EV 6 GT line with great results. But you have to use the charging level that makes sense for your lifestyle! Who doesn’t want free Solar charging?! Level “ S” ? Thx…Keep sharing !
If they are going to make a tent for it, they need to make one that is insulated like a Crua tent so that it’ll keep in the cold air/heat so that it’ll be efficient. I’m looking forward to camping in my Aptera!
1. Many questions how the GREAT was able to walk on water. So the second time.... when Chris stood on Aptera roof..... am sure there bound to be questions and people looking under the roof to see if any tricks there !
2. The rear appearing small, that is the black unfinished surface causing the effect. Also both we sleeping with head outwards. You will do that head towards the seat.
3. I camp in my Prius with a $20 hatch tent. It works perfect. I know many of us already do that. Am sure the Aptera will be much better then my setup.
4. SMS not good idea, data off mobile or personal device....AWESOME IDEA! Security concerns allowing user to use their own mobile plan is same as if using car's in-build mobile connectivity option.
5. Car Apps, let user be able to sync over own mobile device google play or apple app store.
Excellent content Drew!
Back in the 60s, my father had a Rambler sedan. You could slide the front bench seat forward and fold the back down flat forming a large bed area. We never used it for that purpose but it was a neat idea.
My mother had a '64 Rambler Ambassador that did that. I did use that feature a couple of times. When you live at home and have a girlfriend...
Har~~! OP is my age group! I recall this feature in some Fords as well
Looking at that laying down footage, I was thinking that a simple hinged flap arrangement would extend the floor and fold upwards to double as a cargo barrier. It's not like most of us have the rear window option, so visibility is not impeded. My old 145 Volvo has something like this concept (from 1966!).
Dashcam (aka forward cameras recording while driving) is a lot more valuable than sentry mode in my experience...people conflate them but that's what I'd want first. I have personally used that footage to prove fault in an insurance collision claim. For a nasty door ding though, all sentry mode gave me was trivia.
I figured I’d use a regular dash cam like I currently have. It has a rear camera also that I don’t think I can use in Aptera.
Sentry mode saved me in an incident that had 18k in damage and got the person on camera charged. Take that for what its worth. Both are valuable in my opinion
"Sentry mode" can be as simple as record and store. No need to transmit or analyze in real time. Tesla uses 250-300w which over a year is like ~2.6 mwh and costs ~$1000 in california.
Chris did say the rear area was going to be 7 feet long if you move the front seats forward.
Great video thanks to both of you!
U forgot to mention that shorter charge times means fast charging stations will be able to handle more cars per unit of time. Instead of 1-2 cars per hour it could handle 3-4.
Every video and interview I learn something new.
I'm one of those people that like the privacy aspect of turning off communication to your car from the phone (as long as you don't have to go into airplane mode). Presumably it would be through bluetooth or ad-hoc wifi. I also travel into remote places without cellular service so I need basic functional operation without wifi or cellular.
Great job guys as always. You guys discussed preconditioning your battery before fast charging. I bought a Chevy Bolt ( wanted to hold out for my Aptera but my junker crapped out, I just ride my bikes my wife needs the car). What is that, is it required etc. I just did my first trip requiring a fast charge and I did not do any "preconditioning" before plugging in. Thanks so much for your work Steve and Andrew!
I would definitely take it without a wrap if they offered a discount and online access to wrap shops to precut.
Im wondering if they would sell one without a wrap too, or if they would discount it even. Seems like a waste too for people who will immediately remove it and put something else.
“Tesla navigation kinda sucks”. Drove a model 3 from LA to NAPA and back and ended up using Apple Map because Tesla was so bad. Using your own phone to provide these services is a way better idea for Aptera. ❤
So, the aptera will be my largest Bluetooth accessory?
Thank you, gentleman, for the informative discussion
Batch processing (SMS) was announced a couple years ago I thought. It’s a good idea for sure.
This would be an issue if the vehicle has the cellular connectivity or if (like Aptera appears they're going to do it) the vehicle relies on the driver's cellphone connectivity --- what happens when you don't have cell coverage (in the boondocks)? Obviously, critical systems cannot rely on the cellular connectivity.
I would greatly appreciate if Aptera depended on my phone for connectivity. That way, I can turn my phone off and drive just for the fun of moving through a beautiful space. And you can turn off location on phone and privacy is perserved. Much appreciated. :)
Agreed. Plus, I'm already spending money for my phone plan, I don't want to have to pay more money for another plan, even if it is just to unlock "premium" features.
I wonder how it will work though, do we have to have hot spot on all the time, or can they maybe get what they need though the Aptera app when synced via Bluetooth? I'm rather curious about this.
I realize that things change, I have been following Aptera since the first go around. I can also see that using Google or Apple Maps is a less expensive / faster way to make it to production and I'm all for getting to production as quickly as possible. (Their daily burn rate is still high and money or time are likely the biggest threat to Aptera making it to our driveways.) I recall back in 2021 Chris A was talking about their navigation system in that it would be far better than Tesla or Google maps as it would be built around the efficiency of the Aptera. Hopefully their navigation system will be in an OTA update down the road.
Another great video. Like everyone else, I'm hoping to hear good news on the funding side. For me, that is the most important part. Without funding, everything else doesn't matter. Hopefully PI-2 will be made very soon as that should have a positive impact on funding. Gamma falls short on so many levels.
Something I noticed on the LE spec sheet is the L1 & L2 charge rate. 13 mi/hr and 57 mi/hr. That is only 10.83A at 120VAC or 23.75A at 240VAC. I would have thought they would have 16A at 120VAC for 19.2 mi/hr or 32A at 240VAC or 76.8 mi/hr. Granted, you would need a dedicated 20A 120VAC line to charge at 16A but that is 153.6 miles of charge for an 8 hour overnight vs 104 miles.
I've never seen a 120V EVSE that's rated above 12A. Requiring a 20A outlet would exclude the majority of outlets in the US.
@@AverageJoe928 if you have an output of 16A on a L1 evse such as Winado Level 1 EV Charger, 16A 25FT Portable Car Charger, 110-120V you need to have a 20A circuit. If you try to pull 16A on a 16A circuit, you will pop the breaker. On a 16A circuit, you can only pull 12A continuously.
@@ddessert6 I know, that's why I said that I've never seen a 120V EVSE rated above 12A (i.e. designed to use a common 15A outlet).
PI-2 might be a while yet. Last I heard they were track testing Beta over in Italy to finalize the suspension geometry. Aptera engineers will need the data from this testing to finalize the aluminum frame design before the contractors can start making the molds to cast the parts. It might not be wise to build out another PI body until they have a frame to put it on. Also, the team in Carlsbad is working on the wiring harness in PI-1. Once they get that finished up then they can send the info to Yazaki. Yazaki will need time to create the harness, send it to Carlsbad for fitment and finalize the specs for a production harness. Again, a wiring harness would be nice to have on hand for PI-2, but that may take a while too. I suppose they could cobble some wires together to make PI-2 operational but it's hard to get around the need for a frame.
Thanks Steve and Drew, this is a great discussion! Drew, what were your impressions of stiffness and strength as you handled individual pieces like the rear hatch or door?
Felt incredibly rigid and strong. No signs of flexing or bending at all. I'm surprised more cars aren't made with this material
@@TailosiveEV Just as expected, but the confirmation is much appreciated! I have often wondered why the use of these materials hasn't spread more quickly and always come back to manufacturing time and labor. I think CPC's process takes care of these issues and is the future!
@@TailosiveEV- What did you expect? It’s a composite. It’s designed to be lacking in flexibility and light, yet brittle. Once it fractures, it’s worthless.
@@billsmith5960 ☝All that's true. But it will take and absorb a lot of energy to fracture those parts, helping to protect the passengers inside.
I'm most interested in Aptera's $25,900 model which is cheaper than the deal I got on my Chevy Bolt. Aptera can become the modern day Volkswagen Beetle. I hope Aptera will continue developing the low end Aptera to be as cheap as possible, with only two motors and cheaper battery chemistry, like Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) batteries. What would be better for people who live in apartments, or a car to take to college. What will happen with used Apteras? Fortunately they won't rust out, and because they will not be as recyclable as steel and aluminum cars, they can be repaired or restored many times. I even dream of setting up an Aptera restoration shop!
there is no 25,900 model. Both Chris and Steve have already concurred that their costs went up considerably when they chose to use CPC. Given that regardless how much you invest you cannot lock in your price also confirms it. Also Chris even stated the body panels cost them nearly ten thousand dollars... if you are expecting the prices not to jump you are in for a rude surprise.
We will see. I have heard no one at Aptera say the price is going up. In fact, their estimate that they can break even with only 6000 units would suggest they won't need to raise the price.
While I would personally love it if they could keep the current advertised price, I’d be perfectly ok with a slight increase in. Unfortunately the price is one thing that will most definitely change the longer it takes to get to production.
Recently Chris Anthony mentioned they are considering a 200 mile battery model to get the price near $20,000.
@@fourteenfour1 Why do you give false info? *Tooling* costs went up. With less waste and less labor, overall costs may have come down.
There is no announcement or even information to conclude that no $25,900 model will be available. - that could come, but we don't have it now.
The Dynamic Duo….!!!
Thank you for the great video. Great seeing all the parts coming together. Looking forward to seeing the production vehicle on the test track. Love the design for efficiency mindset. Love the solar free fuel! I will wait for the glass rear hatch. Hopefully sooner than later.
It is possible that a model with a glass rear hatch should be re- crash tested, since the current configuration forms part of the rear crumple zone. We will see, but I would not be surprised if that option goes away.
I don’t believe it will 25% ordered no rear solar. The only reason is for the rear window. Not the money saving. Just a matter of how long it will take and have been told this by aptera.
thank you for video. how do the seats get attach to the binc?
In Drew's video, they mentioned stand offs. Basically metal brackets that would be bolted to the tub, and then the seats would be mounted to them
Well, they were introduced at the factory and just sort of hit it off. 😉
@@garywozniak7742 Dad humor. Dig it!
@@garywozniak7742Yes, so I guess they weren’t tooo standoffish.
its good to hear that they look to be transitioning from investor/presentation mode to possible manufacturing mode
yes, truly exciting. Things seem to be ramping up!
@@shrimptopian3392 ahh... you must be new here, or another bot
@@Ingo.Mclean He is been a troll spreading mis-information as long as he has been posting.
Very informative visit/interview - thank you Drew!
The thought of not getting it wrapped from the factory has crossed my mind & I will seriously consider it if it's an option. I will prefer our own color and material unless all the first ~2000 cars must look the same!
They did say the launch edition would all be silver.
Agree. If the reason is simply cost reduction with one wrap, Aptera may negotiate to sell the car without wrap. I just wanted to see if others might be interested as well.
Completely folding down front seat makes a ton of sense
Usefull if you need to "Live in your Aptera down by the river."
Remember how simple and how ubiquitous the Mercedes 240D Taxicabs were? That is What I want of the First APTERA to get to production! Sell 'em to all the World!
Wonderful discussion. I really enjoy seeing community form.
There is also no reason why SMS can't be encrypted.
I thought I heard I can connect to my home wifi. I hope so, because I don't have a data plan on my phone.
I will say I really want a sentry mode, but I'm ok with buying 4 mini camera's and a 4 channel security recorder.
Given that they've talked about a 500# load capacity *including passengers* I'm fine with the exclusion of the third seat.
I don't want to weigh my passengers and their bags prior to hitting the road as if I was loading a float plane.
I did a few calculations and it’s mainly the load rating of the rear tire. By the size they have and getting it in XL form, that’s the determining factor unless they stick on a bigger tire. I wonder what the load limit will be on the 1000 mile range.
@@billsmith5960 The load limit is 500 pounds for each range. That's what each suspension will be designed for. And it's not like something breaks if you load it to 600 pounds. All that will happen is acceleration and braking distance won't meet specs and the ride may be less comfortable. (You could bottom out on a smaller bump in the road.)
@@fotoguru222 - It's the rear tire. Only change to the rear suspension would be to raise the rear spring rate and raise the bump and rebound according to that ride frequency they want to maintain. The LE will have a curb weight of 2200 lbs. Highest load rating I can find for the rear tire is 88 (XL load rating). That's 1235 lbs. Add 500 lbs and the weight is 2700 lbs. With the bulk of the weight in the center, two 200 lb passengers and 100lbs of cargo in the rear. You have to assume 54% of the weight would be over the front axle to make sure you are at the rear tire limit. Since manufacturers don't want you to run at the limit of the tire, then Aptera has a low cargo rating.
@@billsmith5960 🤔Another option is they decide they need to put larger tires on the 1000 mile range, heavier Aptera.
@@fotoguru222 - Don't forget, the 600 will be heavier too. So it'll need a larger tire or just lower the load you can put in it (here in the US it's easy to find two people that weigh 250 lbs) that can become a problem. One other thing. You put yourself in a catch 22 in this situation. Heavier battery to get more range and you lose efficiency due to a larger tire and higher curb weight.
The single rear tire makes it difficult as you have one, carrying the rear axle load as opposed to having two.
That's perfect!!! @ 16:00
Sentry mode would be nice doesn't have to be too much of a power drain per se. I would need to think how to implement it. Cameras recording without running the screens may not draw too much power. Powering the screen is a major power draw. Just writing video to a SD card may be fairly low power. Proximity sensor power may be a larger power drain.
I’d love to take delivery without a wrap because I want to wrap it in a different color.
OR if they contract with a wrap company and that company can do printing, Aptera will provide the template and you could design or pick the color and the wrap company prints and wraps it when it comes off the line with the file or request you send. Unless it's some sparkly holographic stuff they may not have... then yeah.
Everyone keeps asking about Car Play, but I want to know about Android Auto.
They've said that Android Auto will be included. Apple Car Play is getting more attention because it requires a proprietary chip that Aptera can't get en masse until after months of validation.
Android Auto requires no proprietary hardware and can be handled through over the air updates.
Bells and whistles can be added after production
Hi, next time you talk to Aptera, could you ask about the aluminum frame? Will it be cast or forged? Where will it be manufactured? Etcetera...
Thanks
The glass fiber composite might be less affected by UV. The glass fiber composite seems to be the outside layer.
It is more about the UV affecting the resin, than the fiber. The CF might get hotter if exposed, but I don't think that is the issue.
@@GNiessen Wont that be covered by the wrap?
Battery pre-conditioning should be less significant due to the relatively small battery. Manual or none at all is OK to me.
A flat 50kW DC rate may be plenty for even the 60kWh pack. It is the average charge rate that matters more than the peak. Even for the 100kW pack, spending a couple hours not driving will still be less charging time penalty over two days of driving than with other BEVs.
Efficiency rules!
Not "Glamping"! EVamping!
I also want it delivered without a wrap… cause I plan on selling the wrap for advertising on my way back.
Yes, I have a smartphone, but my discount plan doesn't allow using it as a hotspot. I will have to park near a public WiFi to connect. Not a big deal.
My guess is it does not require you to have a hotspot plan. The app is going to use the data and feed it to the car
Hi there. I'm not a paid shill or anything, I'm just a dude who's been using the service for years, but Visible has a plan you can get for $25 bucks a month for unlimited everything on Verizon's network, with unlimited hotspot. I've used it all around the Charlotte area and it's never failed me for the car-related things I use, and it's great always having internet no matter what even when there's no wifi. Only catch is you gotta bring your own phone or buy one off contract for the full price, and there's no physical stores or agents you can call for support, they just send you a sim card and you handle the rest so it's not good for people who aren't tech-savvy.
@@ApteraOwnersClub I think they were talking about for OTA updates. Android Auto/Apple Carplay etc would just use the phone's internal connection, but creating a hotspot on your phone (or joining a wifi network) would be required for OTA updates.
In TailosiveEV's recent aptera video, chris mentioned you can connect the car to wifi. Assuming it can reach your aptera from your house/apartment. Or possibly driving to a local McDonalds or some place with public wifi is what i had in mind, if thats even safe from a cyber security point of view.
@@ApteraOwnersClub Interesting. If their app can move data through some sort of back door, I wonder if that would be through Bluetooth or WiFi. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they are able to do for poor people like me.
6k to wrap a model 3 sounds absurdly expensive. I was thinking a normal wrap job would be like 1k-1500
Many more people are wrapping cars for personal use than before. As demand increases so does price, also how the vehicle is wrapped also should be taken into account. Some shops actually remove body panels to wrap the edges of the panels.
Lot of profit taking. Understandable that custom jobs in shops is more (especially without cut patterns) but factory should be cheap by comparison.
Agree, I bet you could get a really nice paintjob for that price!
@@lsh3rd Paint requires huge investment and has serious environmental issues.
@@n.brucenelson5920 My comment was mainly centered around painting vs. wrapping a traditional vehicle like the model 3. I definitely like the no paint aspect of the Aptera.
Without a data connection they cant do nav. That means relying on android auto/carplay for nav including charger nav that apple maps / google maps doesnt do. The best phone based nav is A Better Route Planner but I don't think you get details about your car or driving habits. Maybe with the paid version.
Presumably they could get data via your phone, alternatively the charger navigation could also be done via your phone if they don't host it in the car itself.
@@WyndStryke As EVs get more popular the critical features of ABRP and in vehicle nav are coming to android auto / carplay. Not bad to put the problem on the big companies to solve.
Go already please, Steve. By Independence Day at latest. Do an Independence from fossil fuel day video 🤪
I'd be interested in knowing what warranty Aptera will possibly give on the battery pack and drive train. Like Kia give 100k miles or 7yrs on battery. And body.
probably similar to other EV warranties. They've said they'll announce it closer to production
I am confused... If the vehicle doesn't have a cell connection, what are you sending your SMS messages to? It doesn't make sense to me that your phone would be your only means for the vehicle to have external connectivity and still use SMS between your phone and your vehicle. That said, maybe SMS is being utilized between your phone and Aptera servers?
Your phone app would connect to your Aptera via the short range BlueTooth protocol and radio. It has much higher bandwidth but uses less power because of its short range.
I think what they're saying is that the car will have it's own sms connection, but that's just low-power, low-bandwidth, running on the old pager system. It's enough to send signals and commands to the car from anywhere, but for things like audio streaming and nav, it'll have to use your phone
If it has it's own sms connection then you are back to needing some sort of service plan (either your or Aptera)
The comments about 26:40 were helpful and a reminder. It was refreshing to hear. The core of this whole project is this: the most efficient ev powered by the sun. After that there are a hundred points of divergence, at least in my own extended family. Nevertheless, I'v seen what infinite never ending demands has done to the planet, let alone other solar car companies.
Using available technology with new insights, pushing the boundaries of convention and innovation is absolutely smart, but, what is the focus? ...Me wanting heated seats for sub-zero weather? No, that's not the focus. It is the Big Picture of the car - a super efficient electric vehicle with great performance so efficient it can for most daily commutes be powered by the sun.
How do we, I, embrace the greatest number and diversity of people/supporters of this car so we can all see this car come into existence? That is a question I need to keep asking myself. For my part I plan to continue to invest in Aptera.
In a true wilderness area, like Alaska you would need the hatch closed- one grizzled to another, it’s hard on the outside with a soft chewy inside.
Griz's have to eat too.
My delivery date now reads "H1 2025". Can someone please tell me what H1 is?
Means first half of 2025. My guess is that's optimistic.
"THE RARE INDIVIDUAL THAT DOESN'T HAVE A SMART PHONE..." that's me. i am that guy. My decade old tomtom is getting suction cupped to the window of the aptera. dumb phone stays in the backpack. the dash board on this car will be useless to a point. gimme one of those old fashioned mechanical odometers and speedometers, please!
We hall have battles that we dig our heels in on.
A man’s got to know his limitations.
Why is there steel reinforcement on the roof? Why not simply fill the gap with lighter BINC?
The BINC has never been shown as major factor is absorbing damage in a crash. all their animations use the frame
Because the roof and the rest of the body is brittle. Once it breaks, it does nothing. So this is the reason it needs a steel hoop a bars that run down the A and B pillar. Also why it’ll have steel door bars and an aluminum frame to take the load of the suspension and battery.
Contrary to what people say about the bink, it needs steel and aluminum to do the everyday work and for crash protection. If it was not required, they would not include it.
When they stand on the top, that’s a static load. I want to see CA jump up and down on it. Let’s see what happens with impact momentum.
@@billsmith5960 I want to see an elephant on the roof like they mentioned in their children's book! 😃
I'm not sure if I deem crash testing necessary before production. Personally I think that's a corner that could be cut, and then crash testing could be advertising after launch. I'm also open to this being considered a very bad idea.
For those of us coming from motorcycles, and who understand something about safety design, this would be fine - we know it is much safer in any case.
The question might be more how the market would interpret such a move, even if they got it wrong.
I think crash testing is very important.
Love both of your content, I was thinking about the sms messaging is a great idea. But playing the devils advocate here is there a way for Aptera to shutdown there software and somehow render the car useless? or will this car work no matter what without always internet connection? I think the data connection is intriguing but am worried of orwellian control from a centralized entity.
Just buy a stainless steel colander and wear it like a helmet. It will protect you.
@@garywozniak7742 😂😂
36:50 NO WRAP😅🎉
sms may not be encrypted but you could encrypt the data. I hope a lot of people in front of me bail on their reservation. I think I am somewhere around position 5k before the accelerator program. I set up an account to invest the morning when the program ended and missed out on getting one of the first 2k. I look at this car as my ticket to freedom.
I dont have a smart phone and i have a preorder!
😂 If you can afford an Aptera, you can afford a smart phone for $20 per month.
@@fotoguru222 Don't want one.
@@njdevilku1340 🤔 Staying old school, huh? Well then you won't lose any essential car functions, however you will need to find another way to have music, podcasts, get directions and find any charging stations needed for long trips. You could always print out maps of charger locations at home from a computer.
@@fotoguru222 Well I have an iPad that I use for directions from home and if needed on the road, find McDonald's, walmart, etc. I have a dumb phone for true emergencies but I leave it off and charged. I cont like being on demand all the time.
Pretty sure they are NOT planning to use your phone, because they have talked about remote monitoring of how your Aptera is charging via solar, etc.
Just that they will be senidng data over older cell networks and only using SMS.
For navigation they seem to be preferring phone. For software of the car they are building there own, but this doesnt seem to be using a data connection.
Unrelated to the discussion, it seems that Tesla maybe heading towards a major shift towards FSD and the Robotaxi. It is sounding like they may be canceling or putting the so called $25k Model 2, or at least the non robotaxi version on hold. It sounds like Elon envisions a world where everyone can't live without FSD and will be willing to pay $100/month for it and or not own cars and pay for
robotaxi's to go everywhere. It might give Aptera some customers who are not willing to conform. I like the open source nature of OpenPilot and the low cost of CommaAI's hardware.
Greetings to enthusiasts of the most efficient aerodynamic electric car, whose mass production is steadily approaching! If we consider the Aptera as an electric car for long-distance travel, often to those places between cities where the cellular signal is not strong enough or almost completely absent, then how is it supposed to solve the problem of the lack of Internet and even cellular communication? For metal cars, amplifier antennas are placed on the roof, and the metal roof itself becomes an antenna collecting radio signals, but what about Aptera? So far, from what I have seen and heard, a mobile phone is supposed to be used to communicate an electric vehicle with the outside world, but its ability to pick up a signal is very limited, due to its size, even a tablet provides a much more stable connection and connection speed. Is there, or could there be a solution built into the design for the future, on how to stay connected on a long journey into the wilderness “to a house by the lake” (the Aptera solar roof will provide electricity and autonomy, but the rest?))) or has no one asked themselves this question yet?
I have 2010 Kia that i use my Android phone in. I have a winshield mount and a Bluetooth adapter that plays through my radio on a (configurable) dead FM channel. I have all the Google voice controls enabled. If I am driving with it connected to the blue tooth I usually listen to a channel on tunein rado or SirusXm from the phone and have Google Maps up.i rarely lose signal. But in the wilds of Oregon where there is no signal Google Maos will usally alert you when you punch in, or ask it to take you to a destination via OK Google if your route goes through areas with no signal and you can have it download the directions to your phone so that it will work when you hit a dead zone.
As I sit here in my condo, I just said OK Google, find me the nearest EV charger, and Google Maps brought up a list. The nearest one is 0.3 miles away. I think that your phone would be no better or worse than a vehicles cellular connection
1 person camping with a slide out drawer next to the bed.
Can not buy the 6,000 unit. Unless Aptera at this time know the price and not telling us. Also, they do not have all the prices for the parts that is going into the Aptera.
How can Aptera be right using the 6,000 number??😮
Blake told them that’s all that’s needed. If Aptera says something, you can take it to the bank.
Even if they don't know all the numbers, by this point they know most of them, and can have solid guesses on the rest. It's a wild notion that they can break even at 6k/year, but note that they likely amortized all their set up expenses over the next five or ten years when they calculate that number.
@@shrimptopian3392 Good for you! Probably wrong though. Can't wait to find out
@@shrimptopian3392 Show me the evidence you have that it was unrealistic in 2019. I fully expect it to go up, roughly by inflation. Anything beyond that is an open question
There was a time when Chris said they had a 30% margin on them. $10K investment launch editions just got the parts paid for.
A few concerns:
1. I read this was filmed on a Friday and the bink showed up on a Monday. This is for wiring. So why was it not immediately put at a workstation and on a stand by at least Tuesday? Then the wiring guys at aptera be all over this right away? The clock is ticking and every day counts. Yet it’s just sitting in the same spot and people look like they are just playing around on and in it. Then, where are the employees? I’d think for something that they have been chomping at the bit to get, work would have started immediately. Yet empty plant and no employees.
2. No frame. Why wasn’t the frame developed and produced in parallel with the bink? Yet seems to be very little talk about it. There’s no IP about it as we seen the renderings a year ago.
3. What about the interior? Only thing I know is that it’s soft tooling just for the outer side. I’d think they would be working on that inner side so they can attach them to the bink as it’s nothing like all previous versions.
It would be nice to see the engineering and R&D departments working hard on this (by showing it in the video) as opposed to spending a two week tour of celebrating just the bink. I hope April will show progress beyond just receiving the bink when it comes to their updates.
welcome to Aptera, seriously this is not a well run company. go read the glassdoor reviews.
They don't have the frame or suspension because that fabrication is being done in Italy now and the castings were not complete even in March. As for why they aren't ready in Carlsbad for this BINC? Unless you see it with your own eyes you cannot believe any of their claims. They have never shown an actual wiring harness and only had a few shots of some BMS boards recently. In other words, they prepare for what is needed for the immediate interview to give the idea there is progress.
They have put no effort into even making the facility look like a factory, all the equipment brought over when Vista was closed is still scattered about. When they had EVA tour in January the place was a mess with tools and work scattered on tables. There was no obvious effort to organize for anything. The tour displays have not changed in two years.
They only recently stated they wrote checks for the seats but no comment on rest of interior. The wrote checks for exterior lighting but would not confirm if it was Magna. They also wrote a check to CTNS for some initial packs - yeah they are paying CTNS - it is not the other way around as some fans claimed. Plus remember who did this video, Drew is a fanboy extreme so they know how to handle him and he will never put questions in the video he asks but does not get a reply on.
@@fourteenfour1 🙄 Sorry you missed the wiring harness displayed in a video last year I believe it was.
@@fotoguru222 - What? The bink did not exist last year. CEO specifically told you and I that they were using this for wiring harnesses. This is not the older versions of it where they were vacuum formed resin. If by chance the harness exists, then put it in and show people working on it. Yet they still are playing around with it, doing funny videos. Not a single wire in it.
Maybe my eyes are bad but it looks really dirty.
I have had carbon fiber bicycles and have some in my car now. It didn't look like that. Maybe it looks different in person?
What type of carbon fibre are you comparing it to?
The CPC process uses chopped fibres which randomly orientate in the substrate, but some carbon fibre is done using sheets of woven fibre (if done like this, it has a square pattern).
@@WyndStryke If I were to guess based on what you just said the second option.
Look up Genesis GV70 Carbon Fiber. If you look at images you will see what I am seeing.
@@Fairburne69 Yeah your car is using the second type (based on woven sheets), which is why it looks different. The type that Aptera is using is sometimes called 'forged carbon fibre', and looks a lot more random. The reason is that it can be mass-produced quickly (which is being done by CPC Group in Modena, Italy).
Great explanation.
@@WyndStrykeExactly.
Thanks Steve and Drew, this is a great discussion! Drew, what were your impressions of stiffness and strength as you handled individual pieces like the rear hatch or door?
Drew replied in these comments. Maybe you could ask him directly.
@@tims8603 That is what I did and Drew replied....