The efficiency testing will give them the definitive title of the world’s most efficient vehicle. We like things that are “world’s best” here. I hope they lead with that going forward when it is no longer just theoretical.
The solar efficiency will probably take longer because they needs to test at different times of the year so they get the different angles of the sun. As an example they can't get maximum charging until they get a sunny day around June 21st.
Valid and I agree. For me, I really value this February/Winter initial tests because I'm more interested in this low sunlight, heavier air density, cold battery (that with expected low-temp minuses in range) factored in. This way I reduce some of the uncertainty of being unpleasantly surprised come my first winter of Aptera ownership. It's much easier to extrapolate (and live with) warm/sunny season performance using the winter performance as baseline (rather than the other way around).
I am really looking forward to seeing the real world efficiency, range, and performance numbers. Unfortunately, the news could work against Aptera if their tested numbers fall short of their lofty calculated efficiency numbers. Still, it is better to know the facts, than to guess about them. Regardless, the Aptera will still be the most efficient production EV built. 🚗🌞
Spoiler… some will say Aptera lied, even if they get 39 miles/d of solar gain; and some will call it a success @ 20 miles/d. Anything north of 25 miles/d is impressive, useful and hopefully sufficient to entice significant new investment dollars.
Can they hit the 100Wh/mile mark or very close with the 41 kWh battery pack, and with a few compromises like the air intake? I’m listening for signs that they’re hedging on that number and I haven’t heard it.
The statement about it being winter ignores the real reasons it what not generating more electricity. The skies were clear at the time of filming. The time of year mostly affects available hours where solar power can be generated and it can have an effect of fixed arrays because of changes to the earth's tilt. A set of cells basically parallel to the ground are never going to great regardless of the time of year. Time of day has more effect and even that is a very short window. So glad you called out the fallacy many live under who expect a full 700w generation. Chris himself admitted that the shape precludes the full set from working at once. I would not be surprised they have hit peak generation but success cannot be measured at peak but across a day by determining how many hours were available and how often the car has to be moved to take full effect. We will have to wait for independent validation to know. Notice the change in terms, they qualified it, - every part is from their production intent design - because regardless of their other claims these are not true production intent vehicles as they presented it over the last year or two. They simply don't have the resources to engage the needed suppliers and likely never will. The only part from an actual supplier appears to be the body. The rest of his words were just to spin that issue with not having funds to use actual suppliers. The solar clean room is not a volume production setup. It does however confirm how much of a lie the 2022 Solar is in Production Video was - because if it were truly producing ten panels a day they would have had all the pieces and equipment from its solar line - but they didn't because it wasn't. What was not discussed in the January or any update since July is the status of the US Capital Group convertible note. The democratization line of raising funds sounds like a tacit admission every large investor continues to turn them down. that in turn means there is zero chance of an IPO and there really isn't any chance until they have a production line.
A little empirical efficiency data from our rooftop solar set up: Our panels can nominally produce 12.84 kW of power (manufacturer's specs). In reality, the best we've been able to produce is around 9.6 kW or about 75% of the nominal rating. Our panels are all at one pitch (matching the roof of our house) oriented at a decent angle for the afternoon sun in the summertime, but not perfect, obviously. Because, as Steve described, the 700 W of the Aptera's solar panels are never all going to be oriented perfectly with respect to the sun at the same time, the peak output will always be less than 700 W. Even with this apples-and-oranges comparison, the best would be ~75% of this, less than 525 W. So, if they've observed ~500 W (and may get 550 W) in San Diego, that's pretty darn good, but Chris A's ~400 W (observed) in Las Vegas might be more practical real-world estimate.
rumors are they have been offered and turned "many" down over controlling shares negotiations with the assumption that controlling shares was their "mistake" on round one of the company. these are all only speculations of course. We do know they have spent a lot of efforts trying to lure big VC money from both domestic and foreign sources based on the updates and groups following them on their dog and pony tours of the vehicle into some high society groups and events. nothing has turned into an investment that we know of to get them into production to date.
The narrator is incorrect in his jargon. Parts that are not finalized are in a "prototype" phase. You go from proto - which may be made with additive (3D) printing or soft tooling - to work out the kinks, fit, finish, etc. You then move to hard tool for your small volume "production intent" some call "Beta" build (vehicles). All parts are controlled by documents with specific "Revision Control" designations. Example: Some company label protos "EP0.0, 0.1, 0.2" where EP stands for Engineering Prototype major revision 0.x with the second digit being iterations of changes. When a part is done and is a release candidate it drops the EP and is "1.0". Changes over the product life cycle will have the second digit for minor updates and the first digit for changes in compatibility. Example a 2.0 and a 1.0 may not be interchangeable even if they look similar. This is all significant as it says where they are in the race to volume shipment. Proto's have a lot of work to do. Beta's one hopes have very little - but for a serious unplanned error could be back to the drawing board. (Like going from wheel hub motors to inboard.) With the delivery dates slips over the last few years its really important to be "square" with the reservation holders who have ponied up real money in good faith. But this detail should not be coming from a B-Roll filled narrative produced by a third party - it needs to come from the CEO - or in this case one of the CEOs. And for the record - I seriously doubt they can IPO anytime soon. To do so you need an Underwriter who WILL do due diligence and take you public. Its not a cake walk. You do not wake up and say, "It's a nice day to go public". They want to see real revenue not theoretical. Generally if you cannot raise money from the well established investor community they will not allow you on the public markets. Unless you are a future President whose brand is so marketable your business' health (or lack thereof) is a secondary concern.
Word of warning. Those kind of posts will be regarded as you being a troll or being paid by the big. Experience in manufacturing and R&D has no place here. I know as this is what has happened to me. Also you'll be blocked by many.
@@billsmith5960 sadly true and all part of the cult behaviours I experience trying to participate. anymore, I do it now just for anyone new to the car and the company to have a more complete understanding and feel for the history. It's easy to find something like Aptera and get very excited about it, and overly excited if you only hear these members opinions, inputs and replies. (disclaimer to your original post: I'm not an R&D expert!)
Thanks for honest empirical deep dive on Solar Panel efficiency. As a Reservation Holder, I & many are getting a bit nervous about delivery dates for our "Vehicles." I made mine approximately 2 years ago. Hoping Aptera will be rolling out Early Editions by late Autumn perhaps?
If you use the NREL's (National Energy Laboratory) PVWATTS Calculator and enter Las Vegas, NV, and a 700-watt system, and just to to get some potential numbers use a panel inclination of 10 degrees inclination, in the winter month of January, it could potentially produce 74 kWh of electricity. Divided by 31 day in January and that is a potential of 2.39 kWh/day. If the Aptera uses 0.100 kWh/mile that would be a potential average of 23.9 miles per day (again in the winter month of January). From the calculator, the peak solar month in Las Vegas is May, with a potential output of 142 kWh for the month or 142 kWh ÷ 31 days = 4.57 kWh of potential output or a potential of 45.7 miles per day of charge.
At least they got everything talking to each other. Things like the HVAC, EPS, ABS, TC and Airbags. He didn't need to mention them as nobody knows what they are but the rest of what he did is common knowledge and we all know what they are.
Disappointed that CES produced little information on funding. That remains problem #1. Then there is the problem of a car with imported parts in the new world of tariffs. Glad Aptera continues to release more information than others at the same stage, but big headwinds remain.
Every car has imported parts. Hopefully Trump finds a way to declare victory and back down from his second worst idea ever, or else the entire North American auto industry is pretty much doomed, not just Aptera.
@@robertkirchner7981 I think if Trump ditches the Fed EV subsidy Aptera would probably benefit from it because it would result in boosting other EVs base prices. Aptera will still benefit from California's support for EVs.
@@robertkirchner7981 Maybe in the short term but doubt it will be anything like the long inflation climb during Biden's term. In Trump's first term the end result lowered prices relative to salaries and brought more home.
I actually think that the maximum output in the summer could be 600 W or even 650 W. The latter is unlikely, but I think the testing under "ideal conditions" Reed talked about is the standardized testing for solar panels. That is, they use a single source of light to sinulate the sun and shine it on the Aptera's curved panels. The problem is that the Aptera's panels are not standard panels. They underperform in comparison to a flat panel against a single source of light. If that source is pointed at the nose, the tail recieves less light. If the source is pointed at the tail, the nose receives less light. If the source is pointed at the roof, the nose and tail receive less light. You can't ever reach that 700 W maximum. But if yiu have TWO sources if light, one pointing at the nose, abd one pointing at the tail, you will get MORE charge. This is why Hermes was generating so much power when light was reflecting off of the buildings. And this is why you can't calculate the ideal power generation based on bench testing. You have to test the Aptera in the real world, where real world conditions affect how much sunlight the Aptera receives. 500-550 W is probably a good estimate, and the AVERAGE solar power the Aptera will generate will probably be less than that. Just as Hermes reached a peak of 395 W momentarily, but was usually around 200-250 W. But that's thpical of a solar panel. A 300 W panel won't give you 300 W all the time, it will usually run around 100-150 W. The difference is that a home solar panel will usually run from 0-300 W in a very steady curve every day, while the Aptera will generate less power at noon and more power in the morning and evening. And when it drives around, the charge will automatically average itself as the angle keeps changing. The curve will be flatter, until the sun goes down and it drops off to zero. Now if Aptera is testing with two light sources, or diffuse light, then I'd be more willing to trust the 500 W value. But I still think we can't be sure until we actually test it on the road in July.
Generally very well stated! I really wish we'd get away from using the number of watts to describe Aptera's solar panels. It's of rather limited use. My preference? Energy. Energy. Energy. (daily)
@@johnreeves7261 Well, it's the easiest way to put it, and understandable to most of the public. Up to 4 kWh per day is probably a better statistic. You can easily convert that to electricity savings.
Yea, in my experience it is generally impossible to get max output due to the way the panels are situated. My house can theoretically get 11kw of power from my solar but no more than 10kw at any given time due to one portion of my roof being in less than optimal situations while the other side is in peak situations and vice versa.
Atop my minivan are two 200 watt solar panels recharging my house battery bank. Achieving 50% in “sunny” California is a win. I drive between San Francisco and San Diego regularly. For ICE cars DC-DC chargers are an excellent option also.
I have 800W on top of my RV. The closest I ever got to what it was rated was when I was just outside of Santa Fe, NM. That was wight at the beginning of summer, clear day (which it usually is), low humidity (which it usually is) and at 7300 ft in elevation. This was in a place that was flat and zero trees around me. I suggest Aptera goes there as it'll be a great place for validation. Clear area, start of summer and high altitude is a great combo for solar.
Thanks Steve. Driving around without the wheel pants gives us a good look a the suspension and at 5:25 looks like a pretty extreme amount of negative camber, anybody got eyes or info on that?
But if you were 100% with or against the wind people would say it was invalid. Seems like the best way to actually test outdoors with minimal wind interference.
A lot of this could be negated with a pitot tube to understand the airspeed versus groundspeed difference. By integrating power consumption across the loop while accounting for airspeed differences, we could determine how much extra energy is lost due to aerodynamic drag caused by the wind.
Ideal test is with no wind. Any wind, even on a circular or oval loop will result in lower vehicle efficiency results. The reason is power that wind extracts from a moving vehicle increases by its velocity cubed. So headwind extracts way more than tailwind returns.
Why would a company buy a fleet of aptera for over $45k out the door each when they can buy a hybrid corolla (50mpg combined) for under $27k out the door and they get 3 more seats? An aptera is almost 2 Toyota corolla hybrids that has 5 seats.
Aptera already has a fleet order for 101 vehicles from Sustainably Sooner. After that, they will expand their fleet to over 100K units. So, Aptera already has 52K pre orders along with 101 initially and an extra 100K later. That's 152,101 orders. That's $6,084,040,000 in sales.
UA-cam is not that great at allowing links and images so i will use text. For some ball park numbers, for thought. Using the NREL's PVWATTS Calculator, location Las Vegas, 700 watt system, panel inclination 10 degrees, in week 2 of the winter month of January, when CES was held. The potential hourly output of the panels would be 7am - 101.3 watts 8am - 293.6 watts 9am - 419.7 watts 10am - 493.6 watts 11am - 524.2 watts 12pm - 509.4 watts 1pm - 452.1 watts 2pm - 349.4 watts 3pm - 197.15 watts
They just happened to be giving test-rides at the CES show in Vegas, and that represents the only functional "testing" they've done of the solar charging? You're telling me that they've never formally tested the Solar charging in situ? WTF!
Hey Steve. Thanks for the great reporting! I'm wondering what you think about the seats. They look like they don't have a lot of padding and could potentially be a bit uncomfortable on a longer drive.
I am surprised to learn there was only 800 people at the after party, I thought there was many more as it was crowded. I would like to say the music was too loud, to the point I had to leave, it was painful for my ears. I would have liked if they had discussed the costs and needs of monies for the future
Based on all the claims from the discord community of their "amazing" transparency, this should be known. Unfortunately, time have only proven out that any update claim needs to be taken skeptically, so even any number of PI build claims at this point to me are suspect. BTW, even the two Production Intent vehicles at CES were not truly PI builds even though they use that language. I'd call them validation maybe at best for the components and subsystems within them that are connected and working as a vehicle.
All plans are dependent on funding. Hoping Aptera does, as Steve suggested, give credible validation numbers in this month’s update, however preliminary. Shortly after, is when I’d expect some clarity.
Having off grid solar arrays, I can tell you that they do produce significantly more than they are rated for at times even without a perfect angle to the sun, so do not be surprised to see the Aptera hit 700 watts or slightly more for brief periods. On the headwinds versus tailwinds, I'm not so sure they will balance themselves out. The best test conditions would have very low wind speeds.
If your solar arrays "...do produce significantly more than they are rated for..." for anything but rather brief (and irrelevant) periods, then they are at a rather high elevation or the power measurements are wrong. I have 3 kw rated mono-crystalline silicon solar panels pointed due south at a tilt from horizontal of about 20 degrees. The ONLY time I get anything close to "significantly more" out them is when there's a cold wind blowing AND edge of cloud thing.
@@palindromeambigram4852 I was responding to Steve saying the Aptera will NEVER see 700 watts. I believe that's wrong. It would indeed be for brief periods. I have seen higher ratings from my arrays on clear cloudless days, so it was not any special refraction. The "power measurements" are straight from the Victron app which is as good as it gets. I monitor the output a lot and I can see my panels from my living room.. plus, I don't really care if you believe me or not. We shall see if the Aptera can put out 700 watts for any length of time. I expect they will achieve that, but am prepared to be wrong.
I think the "Democratize Funding" may be that they will look to fund the first production with a combination of crowd funding and bank loans. If they can show that they can produce the first production year i. e. 2026, at break even or a small profit, then they may be bank loans available to cover possibly 80% of the cost and crowd funding covering the remainder.
This was basically part of the USCG funding with a 'convertible' note that paid the investor a standard interest rate. I'm truly sad to see they may have exhausted all funding options at this point, and as much as the followers believe this was some herculean effort, I think they should have been in production by now.
I think debt for funding is their worst-scenario and they are waiting till the last moment to decide on that. They have over a billion USD in orders so I am sure that could get them $60m or so in debt from any lender. But many investors will probably be looking for new places to put their money with the tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China. It looks like that will disproportionately hit the car industry and specifically EVs but not Aptera from the sounds of it. Aptera never even depended on the tax credits for any of their future plans.
With over a billion in sales, I'd loan them the money right away. I'd write the check and then slide it across the table. Right before I let go and they touch it, I'd slide it back and say, I need to know a few things. 1. How long has it taken you to get to this sales number? 2. Are these sales numbers potential or real, if potential, then what is the conversion rate? 3. Are these pre orders refundable or non refundable? 4. Will you need more or will this cover everything? 5. Can you show me the calculations and evidence on how many you have to sell before you turn a profit (I only ask this as Aptera has never made a product, thus no experience)?
Besides getting money for the launch edition, I am questioning the long term risk of owning an Aptera. Here is my thought process: say they will make it to production . The initial interest will be high even at $40K. Say they make a profit from the initial interest and then the true market will start to reveal itself. Basic economics of price vs demand that is not clouded by the novelty factor. I think it will slow down dramatically and their cash flow will be in jeopardy. The stock, if they went the IPO route will sink. The early adopters will enjoy their Aptera for a few years but as the company is in financial trouble they will have a hard time procuring replacement parts for the inevitable small accidents. Like cracked windshield , solar panels , occasional fiber glass panel , wheel pants, etc . Even if in a best case scenario they stay afloat , the early adopters , if the car is as reliable as they say it is, will not replace it, hence the market is diminishing as time goes by. If they have enough profits to come up with a product that appeals to a wider market they can grow and reach beyond the critical point of survival. However they need money and I don’t see big investors betting on the company. Hope I am wrong, but I don’t want to buy an Aptera and not have replacement parts for it because the company went out of business. Not willing to risk $40K at this time.
thanks for your input. If I bought one myself, it would be with the understanding that if the company can't move forward, I'm on my own fixing it going forward. but this would be true for any car and is an even greater risk for a new company. I think at $40K I'm off the buy list and would take advantage of selling my 628 spot if that becomes available. I might wait around with my 100KWh reservation to see if they ever get that battery size and how much money it would cost at that time.
Thanks for clearly stating what I, and others, have been saying for ~2 years now. The solar "700" watt number is all but meaningless and just gives the naysayers and trolls ammunition. Now if we can just get Chris Anthony and Steve Fambro to stop saying "700" watts. They just need to stick to the 500 to 550 watts @ Standard Test Conditions which is more or less what Reed said.
No the way that Aptera is talking about their solar is the standard way that all solar systems are rated. When you buy a 4 kw rooftop solar, they don't tell you 3.1kw system at your house. They tell you 4 kw. That's just how the industry does it. When you buy a 30 mpg car depending on how you drive and the type of terrain you drive, you could get better or worse mpg. That doesn't mean they lied to you about the mpg of the vehicle. That's the the standardized way the industry rates it. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.
@@ApteraOwnersClub What you're saying is not difficult to understand. What you appear to not understand is an Aptera solar array is not a "standard" solar array and describing it as such is just dumb.
@@johnreeves7261 I disagree. The number reported is the sum of the cell's STC rating. That is the way a cell, module or array is sized. No manufacturer can control the orientation, angle of incidence or brilliance of the light on the array therefore trying to give a number relevant to the "real" production would be dumb on their part.
Technically they could choose to use the PTC rating for the car's cells. But I am not sure there are PTC ratings for cells. PTC is always lower than STC as it considers more environmental conditions. But again I don't recall ever seeing a PTC rating on a single cell.
The standard way to state the prowess of any solar module or panel is in "Watt peak" or "Wp". So what is usually missed is the "peak" which means it is under standardized conditions- usually in a controlled environment - the limit of power output it can generate. Example: solar panel for a roof top these days has a rating of e.g. 450 Wp. Will it ever product those 450 W for - lets say a full hour -? Probably not. On average during perfect condition it might produce over one hour 400 - 420 Wh (Watt hours). Same with the modules on top of Aptera: 700 Wp is the sum of the rated modules. Will hardly ever be reached as the angle of the sun, the temperature of the cells and other external circumstances directly influence the output. So everybody should state the industry standard way of expressing the prowess of these modules: 700 Wp (Watt peak).
Aptera NEEDS to explain the SEC Subpoena. They need to get out in front of it FAST and be transparent about it. Otherwise the rumor cesspool that is the internet will turn that into the most talked about thing at Aptera.
@@ApteraOwnersClub dude, you speculate on everything Aptera yet *nothing* in this update about the subpoena? are you just giving your community what they want to hear to continue to collect more Patreon and donation monies as well as referrals? at what point are you embarrassed about collecting money from these folks who are so hopeful for this vehicle? I'd really be more interested in hearing your response to this.
40k is too much. They should've kept the 25k limit. It's more expensive than a new mazda miata, and you lose a wheel. If they bring the price down to 30-35k I could swing it. I'd buy it second hand though.
They couldn't have kept it at the original price. When you quote a price and it takes many years to get to production, unless we are in deflation, the price will go up. This is what happened to Elio Motors when they started out at $6800 and had to raise it $7450. This is yet another point where Elio and Aptera have done lots of the same things.
So when they claim up to 700 watts then they’re also exaggerating the “up to 40 miles per day” then. No one is going to move their car around throughout the day to maximum the charging curve. I’d be impressed if it does 20 miles per day on the best sun days. Also fair to point out that home solar systems typically all face the same direction to the sun at the most optimal position and will have a much higher efficiency than those installed on a vehicle.
When I first placed my order, I opted for no solar and unfortunately now that's the only option going forward. Something I still do not prefer, rather wanting a glass or partial glass rear hatch as they had shown. At this point, the design, price and options have shifted enough for me to back out and put up my 1000 shares for sale. Not saying they won't make it, it's just not for me.
In my mind I wonder who really cares that the skin also acts like a solar panel? There is bound to be better 'fold-out' panels in the future, that you can unfurl and point directly at the sun when parking the vehicle out in the sun. They would be larger, and easily capture 2-3x more power than the skin currently does. People today pull out a windshield screen inside their vehicle when they want to keep the inside cooler. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, I read a lot of science fiction ;).
i really wish that they would just release the gamma cd from the wind tunnel test. yeah yeah i know its not the final product but give a taste. especially for the investors right?
I think Democratized means everybody in - Banks, Financial Institutions, Wealth Funds, high net individuals, crowdfunding, blebs of every land and clime. Everybody can invest in the Aptera Movement.
Please, it is an admission that those with lots of money have no interest in a niche product and that it is the masses they are relying on. Basically the people who are not as adept at making good investments. However given the SEC subpoena they may be restricted to accredited investors permanently and that will be the end.
The solar does nothing for me at this point except highlight the poor business decisions to invest all the money they are still needing to get into production for the car into solar. They could be in production today proving out all the efficiency of the design of the vehicle and then step by step add solar, in hub motors and maybe even skin cooling in future models. As a long time follower and small time investor of this company and follower this channel (I never bought you a coffee but have always been willing to share one with you online for free) I am of course very disappointed in both the progress of the car, the decisions of the company and the videos here that continue to over-excite the community of followers and newbies into investing in what may actually end up as a loss for the few and disappointment for everyone.
Integration of components as part of the design is extremely important. If you slap on components after the base design you are not insured to have the melding of those components be efficient or clean and might introduce problems you haven't foreseen.
agree to disagree that up front integration of solar is that much more cost effective. And if it is a decision of spending a little more (of profits from actual production or an actual IPO in production) later to invest and integrate solar into future models or never getting to production and then bankruptcy, I think the decision is clear.
It sounds like you should cut your losses... just as they are making significant progress, but stick around and whinge too! Best of both worlds for a troll.
@@ModernSunlight "This is the stuff of" responding to a troll army that infects all Aptera forums with constant negative interpretations/smears/ankle-biting, and hackery over the absolutely normal developments of an ambitious startup. You hacks aren't fooling many but yourselves.
Will it have moveable louvers to allow air to be directed towards or away from one's face? Will driver and passenger be able to target their side of the vents independently? It is not clear from the pictures.
I, honestly, can't stand the HVAC not being around the screen. None of the vehicles I've owned have had it around the screen and I've always wondered why? Why didn't they put it around the screen?
Hey Ho! Here is some difficult news for Aptera and money. The ChiCom backed EV outfit, Evergrande is having trouble finding investors and funding in a tough market. If something as big and as 'backed' as Evergrande is in money trouble--what does this omen mean for Aptera? My guess is; its "Good Bye, Columbus" when the money on hand is spent. Time will tell us.
The market that matters most for Aptera, by far, is their fan base. If enough fans are willing to support them and buy their product, they will go forward. So far, it looks as if there is sufficient support.
It appears that you just learned of the Chinese Evergrande financial woes and came here to make a splash. Sorry, dude, stale news. You are a decade behind.
@@adimchionyenadum2962 so long as Steve allows this type of bantering and all the name calling above in his community I will continue to believe it to be his cult.
Thanks Steve. BTW at the Aptera Party the VIP ticket holders not only got a chance, via raffle ticket, for a ride in Hermes but to take / photo op with Chris Anthony. He had some small green 3D printed Apterae he made with his kids… that he was giving out some too. Great ending for that Thursday… Validation ahead ! Nation wide tours 🤞 after that (?) Everything if 💸 funding dpendent…
The efficiency testing will give them the definitive title of the world’s most efficient vehicle. We like things that are “world’s best” here. I hope they lead with that going forward when it is no longer just theoretical.
Thanks Steve. Solar efficiency testing results will be very interesting.
The solar efficiency will probably take longer because they needs to test at different times of the year so they get the different angles of the sun. As an example they can't get maximum charging until they get a sunny day around June 21st.
Valid and I agree. For me, I really value this February/Winter initial tests because I'm more interested in this low sunlight, heavier air density, cold battery (that with expected low-temp minuses in range) factored in. This way I reduce some of the uncertainty of being unpleasantly surprised come my first winter of Aptera ownership. It's much easier to extrapolate (and live with) warm/sunny season performance using the winter performance as baseline (rather than the other way around).
Maybe Aptera can write an app to optimize parking angle?
@@ronfarnsworth7074 I have written to them, pleading with them for a compass in the UI, so that we can park optimally.
Thanks Steve, Especially for the reality check on what a 700 watt (rated) system can/will actually deliver.
Unfortunately, the often touted "up to 40mi/day" will not be a 40 mile reality.
@@babaluto I think most everyone knew from the beginning that 40 miles a day was on a perfect day.
@@babaluto 400 watts on a winter day, which is the least ideal condition, is still 22-23 miles/day
I am really looking forward to seeing the real world efficiency, range, and performance numbers. Unfortunately, the news could work against Aptera if their tested numbers fall short of their lofty calculated efficiency numbers. Still, it is better to know the facts, than to guess about them. Regardless, the Aptera will still be the most efficient production EV built. 🚗🌞
Spoiler… some will say Aptera lied, even if they get 39 miles/d of solar gain; and some will call it a success @ 20 miles/d. Anything north of 25 miles/d is impressive, useful and hopefully sufficient to entice significant new investment dollars.
Can they hit the 100Wh/mile mark or very close with the 41 kWh battery pack, and with a few compromises like the air intake? I’m listening for signs that they’re hedging on that number and I haven’t heard it.
@@9Eighty5Tech Early indication are that they will beat it
The statement about it being winter ignores the real reasons it what not generating more electricity. The skies were clear at the time of filming. The time of year mostly affects available hours where solar power can be generated and it can have an effect of fixed arrays because of changes to the earth's tilt. A set of cells basically parallel to the ground are never going to great regardless of the time of year. Time of day has more effect and even that is a very short window.
So glad you called out the fallacy many live under who expect a full 700w generation. Chris himself admitted that the shape precludes the full set from working at once. I would not be surprised they have hit peak generation but success cannot be measured at peak but across a day by determining how many hours were available and how often the car has to be moved to take full effect. We will have to wait for independent validation to know.
Notice the change in terms, they qualified it, - every part is from their production intent design - because regardless of their other claims these are not true production intent vehicles as they presented it over the last year or two. They simply don't have the resources to engage the needed suppliers and likely never will. The only part from an actual supplier appears to be the body. The rest of his words were just to spin that issue with not having funds to use actual suppliers.
The solar clean room is not a volume production setup. It does however confirm how much of a lie the 2022 Solar is in Production Video was - because if it were truly producing ten panels a day they would have had all the pieces and equipment from its solar line - but they didn't because it wasn't.
What was not discussed in the January or any update since July is the status of the US Capital Group convertible note. The democratization line of raising funds sounds like a tacit admission every large investor continues to turn them down. that in turn means there is zero chance of an IPO and there really isn't any chance until they have a production line.
Good choice on the thumbnail. 🙂
Is that you in the thumbnail? The thumbnail is randomly generated by UA-cam for the vast majority of my videos 😃
@@ApteraOwnersClub Yes, that's me and my Glowgo. My 1.5 seconds of fame.
Awesome to hear they saw over 500W from solar
A little empirical efficiency data from our rooftop solar set up: Our panels can nominally produce 12.84 kW of power (manufacturer's specs). In reality, the best we've been able to produce is around 9.6 kW or about 75% of the nominal rating. Our panels are all at one pitch (matching the roof of our house) oriented at a decent angle for the afternoon sun in the summertime, but not perfect, obviously. Because, as Steve described, the 700 W of the Aptera's solar panels are never all going to be oriented perfectly with respect to the sun at the same time, the peak output will always be less than 700 W. Even with this apples-and-oranges comparison, the best would be ~75% of this, less than 525 W. So, if they've observed ~500 W (and may get 550 W) in San Diego, that's pretty darn good, but Chris A's ~400 W (observed) in Las Vegas might be more practical real-world estimate.
Looking forward to validation results supporting the calculations and ending the non-stop speculation!!
Little bit nervous about the funding if I’m honest. I thought some big money would have come in by now!
Same here. I'm surprised some celebrity hasn't "adopted" Aptera. Both would get a lot of media attention and raise world awareness.
It is not going to happen if the large investor does no have a substantial control of Aptera!
@@gmv0553 Good point!
rumors are they have been offered and turned "many" down over controlling shares negotiations with the assumption that controlling shares was their "mistake" on round one of the company. these are all only speculations of course. We do know they have spent a lot of efforts trying to lure big VC money from both domestic and foreign sources based on the updates and groups following them on their dog and pony tours of the vehicle into some high society groups and events. nothing has turned into an investment that we know of to get them into production to date.
@@ModernSunlight I can believe that. Makes sense from a "once bitten, twice shy" standpoint.
TELO trucks with Aptera Solar panels look like what I may buy. I'd need to haul motorcycles. A truck seems more practical here in the north.
I have very much shifted my focus to them. Price point and utility is a big issue.
Fun to follow along!
If you remember the first attempt to launch the Space Shuttle you can appreciate having all your systems 'talk' to each other !!!
The narrator is incorrect in his jargon. Parts that are not finalized are in a "prototype" phase. You go from proto - which may be made with additive (3D) printing or soft tooling - to work out the kinks, fit, finish, etc. You then move to hard tool for your small volume "production intent" some call "Beta" build (vehicles). All parts are controlled by documents with specific "Revision Control" designations. Example: Some company label protos "EP0.0, 0.1, 0.2" where EP stands for Engineering Prototype major revision 0.x with the second digit being iterations of changes. When a part is done and is a release candidate it drops the EP and is "1.0". Changes over the product life cycle will have the second digit for minor updates and the first digit for changes in compatibility. Example a 2.0 and a 1.0 may not be interchangeable even if they look similar. This is all significant as it says where they are in the race to volume shipment. Proto's have a lot of work to do. Beta's one hopes have very little - but for a serious unplanned error could be back to the drawing board. (Like going from wheel hub motors to inboard.) With the delivery dates slips over the last few years its really important to be "square" with the reservation holders who have ponied up real money in good faith. But this detail should not be coming from a B-Roll filled narrative produced by a third party - it needs to come from the CEO - or in this case one of the CEOs.
And for the record - I seriously doubt they can IPO anytime soon. To do so you need an Underwriter who WILL do due diligence and take you public. Its not a cake walk. You do not wake up and say, "It's a nice day to go public". They want to see real revenue not theoretical. Generally if you cannot raise money from the well established investor community they will not allow you on the public markets. Unless you are a future President whose brand is so marketable your business' health (or lack thereof) is a secondary concern.
The voice of reason. Well said.
Word of warning. Those kind of posts will be regarded as you being a troll or being paid by the big. Experience in manufacturing and R&D has no place here. I know as this is what has happened to me. Also you'll be blocked by many.
@@billsmith5960 sadly true and all part of the cult behaviours I experience trying to participate. anymore, I do it now just for anyone new to the car and the company to have a more complete understanding and feel for the history. It's easy to find something like Aptera and get very excited about it, and overly excited if you only hear these members opinions, inputs and replies. (disclaimer to your original post: I'm not an R&D expert!)
Thanks for honest empirical deep dive on Solar Panel efficiency. As a Reservation Holder, I & many are getting a bit nervous about delivery dates for our "Vehicles." I made mine approximately 2 years ago. Hoping Aptera will be rolling out Early Editions by late Autumn perhaps?
If you use the NREL's (National Energy Laboratory) PVWATTS Calculator and enter Las
Vegas, NV, and a 700-watt system, and just to to get some potential numbers use a panel inclination of 10 degrees inclination, in the winter month of January, it could potentially produce 74 kWh of electricity. Divided by 31 day in January and that is a potential of 2.39 kWh/day. If the Aptera uses 0.100 kWh/mile that would be a potential average of 23.9 miles per day (again in the winter month of January). From the calculator, the peak solar month in Las Vegas is May, with a potential output of 142 kWh for the month or 142 kWh ÷ 31 days = 4.57 kWh of potential output or a potential of 45.7 miles per day of charge.
Thanks for the update Steve.
At least they got everything talking to each other. Things like the HVAC, EPS, ABS, TC and Airbags. He didn't need to mention them as nobody knows what they are but the rest of what he did is common knowledge and we all know what they are.
Disappointed that CES produced little information on funding. That remains problem #1.
Then there is the problem of a car with imported parts in the new world of tariffs.
Glad Aptera continues to release more information than others at the same stage, but big headwinds remain.
Every car has imported parts. Hopefully Trump finds a way to declare victory and back down from his second worst idea ever, or else the entire North American auto industry is pretty much doomed, not just Aptera.
@@robertkirchner7981 I think if Trump ditches the Fed EV subsidy Aptera would probably benefit from it because it would result in boosting other EVs base prices. Aptera will still benefit from California's support for EVs.
@@madmotorcyclist I'm more concerned about the tarriffs, frankly.
@@robertkirchner7981 Maybe in the short term but doubt it will be anything like the long inflation climb during Biden's term. In Trump's first term the end result lowered prices relative to salaries and brought more home.
@@madmotorcyclist you must be drunk lol
I actually think that the maximum output in the summer could be 600 W or even 650 W. The latter is unlikely, but I think the testing under "ideal conditions" Reed talked about is the standardized testing for solar panels. That is, they use a single source of light to sinulate the sun and shine it on the Aptera's curved panels.
The problem is that the Aptera's panels are not standard panels. They underperform in comparison to a flat panel against a single source of light. If that source is pointed at the nose, the tail recieves less light. If the source is pointed at the tail, the nose receives less light. If the source is pointed at the roof, the nose and tail receive less light. You can't ever reach that 700 W maximum.
But if yiu have TWO sources if light, one pointing at the nose, abd one pointing at the tail, you will get MORE charge. This is why Hermes was generating so much power when light was reflecting off of the buildings. And this is why you can't calculate the ideal power generation based on bench testing. You have to test the Aptera in the real world, where real world conditions affect how much sunlight the Aptera receives.
500-550 W is probably a good estimate, and the AVERAGE solar power the Aptera will generate will probably be less than that. Just as Hermes reached a peak of 395 W momentarily, but was usually around 200-250 W. But that's thpical of a solar panel. A 300 W panel won't give you 300 W all the time, it will usually run around 100-150 W. The difference is that a home solar panel will usually run from 0-300 W in a very steady curve every day, while the Aptera will generate less power at noon and more power in the morning and evening. And when it drives around, the charge will automatically average itself as the angle keeps changing. The curve will be flatter, until the sun goes down and it drops off to zero.
Now if Aptera is testing with two light sources, or diffuse light, then I'd be more willing to trust the 500 W value. But I still think we can't be sure until we actually test it on the road in July.
Generally very well stated! I really wish we'd get away from using the number of watts to describe Aptera's solar panels. It's of rather limited use. My preference? Energy. Energy. Energy. (daily)
@@johnreeves7261 Well, it's the easiest way to put it, and understandable to most of the public. Up to 4 kWh per day is probably a better statistic. You can easily convert that to electricity savings.
Yea, in my experience it is generally impossible to get max output due to the way the panels are situated. My house can theoretically get 11kw of power from my solar but no more than 10kw at any given time due to one portion of my roof being in less than optimal situations while the other side is in peak situations and vice versa.
Atop my minivan are two 200 watt solar panels recharging my house battery bank. Achieving 50% in “sunny” California is a win. I drive between San Francisco and San Diego regularly. For ICE cars DC-DC chargers are an excellent option also.
I have 800W on top of my RV. The closest I ever got to what it was rated was when I was just outside of Santa Fe, NM. That was wight at the beginning of summer, clear day (which it usually is), low humidity (which it usually is) and at 7300 ft in elevation. This was in a place that was flat and zero trees around me.
I suggest Aptera goes there as it'll be a great place for validation. Clear area, start of summer and high altitude is a great combo for solar.
@ Hopefully Aptera undersells and overdelivers. Those not familiar with solar will be disappointed to learn you do not get every watt you paid for.
@ - Hopefully they get the funding to actually make it to production too. Right now, they are running a bit short.
Thanks Steve. Driving around without the wheel pants gives us a good look a the suspension and at 5:25 looks like a pretty extreme amount of negative camber, anybody got eyes or info on that?
Wind does not average out on a track loop. You loose more in the headwind than you get back with the tailwind.
If you have a better way to test range then what all manufacturer’s use, feel free to provide a more reasonable test method.
But if you were 100% with or against the wind people would say it was invalid. Seems like the best way to actually test outdoors with minimal wind interference.
But you could do half the testing driving clockwise and half counterclockwise, right?
A lot of this could be negated with a pitot tube to understand the airspeed versus groundspeed difference. By integrating power consumption across the loop while accounting for airspeed differences, we could determine how much extra energy is lost due to aerodynamic drag caused by the wind.
Ideal test is with no wind. Any wind, even on a circular or oval loop will result in lower vehicle efficiency results. The reason is power that wind extracts from a moving vehicle increases by its velocity cubed. So headwind extracts way more than tailwind returns.
Would like to see at least initial validation data by the middle of February.
The solar pannels were not all finished with glass some had plastic so the final output were not actualy as they will be.
Why would a company buy a fleet of aptera for over $45k out the door each when they can buy a hybrid corolla (50mpg combined) for under $27k out the door and they get 3 more seats? An aptera is almost 2 Toyota corolla hybrids that has 5 seats.
Aptera already has a fleet order for 101 vehicles from Sustainably Sooner. After that, they will expand their fleet to over 100K units. So, Aptera already has 52K pre orders along with 101 initially and an extra 100K later. That's 152,101 orders. That's $6,084,040,000 in sales.
UA-cam is not that great at allowing links and images so i will use text.
For some ball park numbers, for thought.
Using the NREL's PVWATTS Calculator, location Las Vegas, 700 watt system, panel inclination 10 degrees, in week 2 of the winter month of January, when CES was held. The potential hourly output of the panels would be
7am - 101.3 watts
8am - 293.6 watts
9am - 419.7 watts
10am - 493.6 watts
11am - 524.2 watts
12pm - 509.4 watts
1pm - 452.1 watts
2pm - 349.4 watts
3pm - 197.15 watts
They just happened to be giving test-rides at the CES show in Vegas, and that represents the only functional "testing" they've done of the solar charging? You're telling me that they've never formally tested the Solar charging in situ? WTF!
Hey Steve. Thanks for the great reporting! I'm wondering what you think about the seats. They look like they don't have a lot of padding and could potentially be a bit uncomfortable on a longer drive.
They were comfortable for me but comfort is very subjective
I am surprised to learn there was only 800 people at the after party, I thought there was many more as it was crowded. I would like to say the music was too loud, to the point I had to leave, it was painful for my ears. I would have liked if they had discussed the costs and needs of monies for the future
it was way too cold for me, so I left after about 20 minutes.
Thanks a lot for your effort Steve! Does anyone know how many PIs they are currently building? Are they still planning to build those 14/16 PIs?
Based on all the claims from the discord community of their "amazing" transparency, this should be known. Unfortunately, time have only proven out that any update claim needs to be taken skeptically, so even any number of PI build claims at this point to me are suspect. BTW, even the two Production Intent vehicles at CES were not truly PI builds even though they use that language. I'd call them validation maybe at best for the components and subsystems within them that are connected and working as a vehicle.
@@ModernSunlight Sure thing, ankle -biter.
@@GullWingInnMoclips name calling. fantastic. I left the discord cult because of this.
@ Thin-skinned trolls are so cute. You liberally spread your smears and then whinge about getting a negative response. Priceless.
All plans are dependent on funding. Hoping Aptera does, as Steve suggested, give credible validation numbers in this month’s update, however preliminary. Shortly after, is when I’d expect some clarity.
Does anyone know if they are doing their vehicle track tests at OEM tracks in Western Arizona?
Having off grid solar arrays, I can tell you that they do produce significantly more than they are rated for at times even without a perfect angle to the sun, so do not be surprised to see the Aptera hit 700 watts or slightly more for brief periods. On the headwinds versus tailwinds, I'm not so sure they will balance themselves out. The best test conditions would have very low wind speeds.
If your solar arrays "...do produce significantly more than they are rated for..." for anything but rather brief (and irrelevant) periods, then they are at a rather high elevation or the power measurements are wrong. I have 3 kw rated mono-crystalline silicon solar panels pointed due south at a tilt from horizontal of about 20 degrees. The ONLY time I get anything close to "significantly more" out them is when there's a cold wind blowing AND edge of cloud thing.
@@palindromeambigram4852 I was responding to Steve saying the Aptera will NEVER see 700 watts. I believe that's wrong. It would indeed be for brief periods. I have seen higher ratings from my arrays on clear cloudless days, so it was not any special refraction. The "power measurements" are straight from the Victron app which is as good as it gets. I monitor the output a lot and I can see my panels from my living room.. plus, I don't really care if you believe me or not. We shall see if the Aptera can put out 700 watts for any length of time. I expect they will achieve that, but am prepared to be wrong.
I think the "Democratize Funding" may be that they will look to fund the first production with a combination of crowd funding and bank loans. If they can show that they can produce the first production year i. e. 2026, at break even or a small profit, then they may be bank loans available to cover possibly 80% of the cost and crowd funding covering the remainder.
This was basically part of the USCG funding with a 'convertible' note that paid the investor a standard interest rate. I'm truly sad to see they may have exhausted all funding options at this point, and as much as the followers believe this was some herculean effort, I think they should have been in production by now.
@@ModernSunlightAll funding options have not been exhausted.
I think debt for funding is their worst-scenario and they are waiting till the last moment to decide on that. They have over a billion USD in orders so I am sure that could get them $60m or so in debt from any lender. But many investors will probably be looking for new places to put their money with the tariffs on Canada, Mexico and China. It looks like that will disproportionately hit the car industry and specifically EVs but not Aptera from the sounds of it. Aptera never even depended on the tax credits for any of their future plans.
With over a billion in sales, I'd loan them the money right away. I'd write the check and then slide it across the table. Right before I let go and they touch it, I'd slide it back and say, I need to know a few things. 1. How long has it taken you to get to this sales number? 2. Are these sales numbers potential or real, if potential, then what is the conversion rate? 3. Are these pre orders refundable or non refundable? 4. Will you need more or will this cover everything? 5. Can you show me the calculations and evidence on how many you have to sell before you turn a profit (I only ask this as Aptera has never made a product, thus no experience)?
Besides getting money for the launch edition, I am questioning the long term risk of owning an Aptera. Here is my thought process: say they will make it to production . The initial interest will be high even at $40K. Say they make a profit from the initial interest and then the true market will start to reveal itself. Basic economics of price vs demand that is not clouded by the novelty factor. I think it will slow down dramatically and their cash flow will be in jeopardy. The stock, if they went the IPO route will sink. The early adopters will enjoy their Aptera for a few years but as the company is in financial trouble they will have a hard time procuring replacement parts for the inevitable small accidents. Like cracked windshield , solar panels , occasional fiber glass panel , wheel pants, etc . Even if in a best case scenario they stay afloat , the early adopters , if the car is as reliable as they say it is, will not replace it, hence the market is diminishing as time goes by. If they have enough profits to come up with a product that appeals to a wider market they can grow and reach beyond the critical point of survival. However they need money and I don’t see big investors betting on the company. Hope I am wrong, but I don’t want to buy an Aptera and not have replacement parts for it because the company went out of business. Not willing to risk $40K at this time.
thanks for your input. If I bought one myself, it would be with the understanding that if the company can't move forward, I'm on my own fixing it going forward. but this would be true for any car and is an even greater risk for a new company. I think at $40K I'm off the buy list and would take advantage of selling my 628 spot if that becomes available. I might wait around with my 100KWh reservation to see if they ever get that battery size and how much money it would cost at that time.
Thanks for clearly stating what I, and others, have been saying for ~2 years now. The solar "700" watt number is all but meaningless and just gives the naysayers and trolls ammunition. Now if we can just get Chris Anthony and Steve Fambro to stop saying "700" watts. They just need to stick to the 500 to 550 watts @ Standard Test Conditions which is more or less what Reed said.
No the way that Aptera is talking about their solar is the standard way that all solar systems are rated. When you buy a 4 kw rooftop solar, they don't tell you 3.1kw system at your house. They tell you 4 kw. That's just how the industry does it.
When you buy a 30 mpg car depending on how you drive and the type of terrain you drive, you could get better or worse mpg. That doesn't mean they lied to you about the mpg of the vehicle. That's the the standardized way the industry rates it. I'm not sure why this is difficult to understand.
@@ApteraOwnersClub What you're saying is not difficult to understand. What you appear to not understand is an Aptera solar array is not a "standard" solar array and describing it as such is just dumb.
@@johnreeves7261 I disagree. The number reported is the sum of the cell's STC rating. That is the way a cell, module or array is sized. No manufacturer can control the orientation, angle of incidence or brilliance of the light on the array therefore trying to give a number relevant to the "real" production would be dumb on their part.
Technically they could choose to use the PTC rating for the car's cells. But I am not sure there are PTC ratings for cells. PTC is always lower than STC as it considers more environmental conditions. But again I don't recall ever seeing a PTC rating on a single cell.
The standard way to state the prowess of any solar module or panel is in "Watt peak" or "Wp". So what is usually missed is the "peak" which means it is under standardized conditions- usually in a controlled environment - the limit of power output it can generate. Example: solar panel for a roof top these days has a rating of e.g. 450 Wp. Will it ever product those 450 W for - lets say a full hour -? Probably not. On average during perfect condition it might produce over one hour 400 - 420 Wh (Watt hours).
Same with the modules on top of Aptera: 700 Wp is the sum of the rated modules. Will hardly ever be reached as the angle of the sun, the temperature of the cells and other external circumstances directly influence the output.
So everybody should state the industry standard way of expressing the prowess of these modules: 700 Wp (Watt peak).
Aptera NEEDS to explain the SEC Subpoena. They need to get out in front of it FAST and be transparent about it. Otherwise the rumor cesspool that is the internet will turn that into the most talked about thing at Aptera.
It probably has something to do with the crowdfunding when they started to file with the sec.
They don't know what it's about. All they know is they got a subpoena.
@@ApteraOwnersClub dude, you speculate on everything Aptera yet *nothing* in this update about the subpoena? are you just giving your community what they want to hear to continue to collect more Patreon and donation monies as well as referrals? at what point are you embarrassed about collecting money from these folks who are so hopeful for this vehicle? I'd really be more interested in hearing your response to this.
Of course I'm going to talk about it. Video is scheduled for Wednesday
@@ApteraOwnersClub I'd argue the bad news needs to come first.
40k is too much. They should've kept the 25k limit. It's more expensive than a new mazda miata, and you lose a wheel. If they bring the price down to 30-35k I could swing it. I'd buy it second hand though.
They couldn't have kept it at the original price. When you quote a price and it takes many years to get to production, unless we are in deflation, the price will go up. This is what happened to Elio Motors when they started out at $6800 and had to raise it $7450. This is yet another point where Elio and Aptera have done lots of the same things.
Just sell the things already! I'd take a 300 mpg car like y'all originally offered forever ago!
So when they claim up to 700 watts then they’re also exaggerating the “up to 40 miles per day” then. No one is going to move their car around throughout the day to maximum the charging curve. I’d be impressed if it does 20 miles per day on the best sun days.
Also fair to point out that home solar systems typically all face the same direction to the sun at the most optimal position and will have a much higher efficiency than those installed on a vehicle.
When I first placed my order, I opted for no solar and unfortunately now that's the only option going forward. Something I still do not prefer, rather wanting a glass or partial glass rear hatch as they had shown. At this point, the design, price and options have shifted enough for me to back out and put up my 1000 shares for sale. Not saying they won't make it, it's just not for me.
In my mind I wonder who really cares that the skin also acts like a solar panel? There is bound to be better 'fold-out' panels in the future, that you can unfurl and point directly at the sun when parking the vehicle out in the sun. They would be larger, and easily capture 2-3x more power than the skin currently does. People today pull out a windshield screen inside their vehicle when they want to keep the inside cooler. I probably don't know what I'm talking about, I read a lot of science fiction ;).
i really wish that they would just release the gamma cd from the wind tunnel test. yeah yeah i know its not the final product but give a taste. especially for the investors right?
I think Democratized means everybody in - Banks, Financial Institutions, Wealth Funds, high net individuals, crowdfunding, blebs of every land and clime. Everybody can invest in the Aptera Movement.
Please, it is an admission that those with lots of money have no interest in a niche product and that it is the masses they are relying on. Basically the people who are not as adept at making good investments. However given the SEC subpoena they may be restricted to accredited investors permanently and that will be the end.
The solar does nothing for me at this point except highlight the poor business decisions to invest all the money they are still needing to get into production for the car into solar. They could be in production today proving out all the efficiency of the design of the vehicle and then step by step add solar, in hub motors and maybe even skin cooling in future models. As a long time follower and small time investor of this company and follower this channel (I never bought you a coffee but have always been willing to share one with you online for free) I am of course very disappointed in both the progress of the car, the decisions of the company and the videos here that continue to over-excite the community of followers and newbies into investing in what may actually end up as a loss for the few and disappointment for everyone.
Integration of components as part of the design is extremely important. If you slap on components after the base design you are not insured to have the melding of those components be efficient or clean and might introduce problems you haven't foreseen.
agree to disagree that up front integration of solar is that much more cost effective. And if it is a decision of spending a little more (of profits from actual production or an actual IPO in production) later to invest and integrate solar into future models or never getting to production and then bankruptcy, I think the decision is clear.
It sounds like you should cut your losses... just as they are making significant progress, but stick around and whinge too! Best of both worlds for a troll.
@@GullWingInnMoclips this is the stuff of cult making behaviours that the admins not only would not curtail on discord but actively participated in.
@@ModernSunlight "This is the stuff of" responding to a troll army that infects all Aptera forums with constant negative interpretations/smears/ankle-biting, and hackery over the absolutely normal developments of an ambitious startup. You hacks aren't fooling many but yourselves.
I am not a fan of that center console. It looks like an 80 year old designed it. Huge bezels are a thing of the past.
and the hvac makes it even bulkier. ew
Neither was I until I learnt it also housed the Heat Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) system. Ingenious!
I honestly cant stand the hvac around the screen
Won't matter if they can't get to production.
Will it have moveable louvers to allow air to be directed towards or away from one's face? Will driver and passenger be able to target their side of the vents independently? It is not clear from the pictures.
@@CommanderMaga the head designer said that the louvers can be independently moved in a prior interview.
@@AverageJoe928 Thank you! I missed that one.
I, honestly, can't stand the HVAC not being around the screen. None of the vehicles I've owned have had it around the screen and I've always wondered why? Why didn't they put it around the screen?
Hey Ho! Here is some difficult news for Aptera and money. The ChiCom backed EV outfit, Evergrande is having trouble finding investors and funding in a tough market. If something as big and as 'backed' as Evergrande is in money trouble--what does this omen mean for Aptera? My guess is; its "Good Bye, Columbus" when the money on hand is spent. Time will tell us.
Evergrande helped create the world’s biggest CCP real-estate bubble in China. Tight money probably means their bubble will pop soon.
The market that matters most for Aptera, by far, is their fan base. If enough fans are willing to support them and buy their product, they will go forward. So far, it looks as if there is sufficient support.
It appears that you just learned of the Chinese Evergrande financial woes and came here to make a splash. Sorry, dude, stale news. You are a decade behind.
@@adimchionyenadum2962 so long as Steve allows this type of bantering and all the name calling above in his community I will continue to believe it to be his cult.
Thanks Steve.
BTW at the Aptera Party the VIP ticket holders not only got a chance, via raffle ticket, for a ride in Hermes but to take / photo op with Chris Anthony.
He had some small green 3D printed Apterae he made with his kids… that he was giving out some too. Great ending for that Thursday…
Validation ahead ! Nation wide tours 🤞 after that (?) Everything if 💸 funding dpendent…