I completely agree with the approach to Atmos as not a speaker format like 5.1, but rather a universal format that contains every previous format inside of it. I remember the first test mix I did on headphones and to test is I played it back on my home theater setup, then on a soundbar, on a mono homepod type of speaker and only then in a 9.1.4 Atmos certified studio. It worked beautifully everywhere. That's the power of Atmos, it's not just about having a dozen of speakers.
oh, that's super interesting! I had not heard that it translated well to multiple systems. Good to know, thank you for sharing that info, I was thinking the translation would work as poorly as a bad 5.1 mix down to stereo would. Great to know!
Marks meltdown is arguably the best I've seen on youtube.. We're talking the audio equivalent of "you got your tool? .. What tool?.. THIS FAAACKIN TOOOL!".. Mark is officially the Ray Winston of audio 🤣🤣 I've been told I do a damn good Barry John's impression but I'm yet to do it on youtube 🤣
Barry banned me within his first year on UA-cam. I comment all over your videos, Ed's, and your podcast videos, and I'm 1000% positive you guys have never considered banning me.
With regard to old music versus new music, older music from the '60s, '70s and early-'80s is more structurally complex on average than most music produced these days. More chords, more complex structure gives, IMO, the ear/brain more candy to enjoy. Good music being made now, but I'm 63 and I like the complexities.
I love that you brought out the Beryllium option for the 6's... There might be a change in my space for the studio and it might be even smaller so I have no choice to go with the 6's... Dreading the 100hz null I'm going to get with a extremely low ceiling
Thx for stating the facts about Dolby Atmos! My question is Do people know how much 24 track tape machines and consoles cost back in the day? They were expensive AF! I know because I still have both of those dinosaurs sitting in my garage... The point being is that yes, buying an Atmos monitor system is expensive however so is buying a new Mac computer and everything else when it comes to studio gear PERIOD! It is the cost you Pay to Play. In your home or other studio...
My burning question for another video... can you give us an idea of pricing and or process if we were to send our headphone dolby mixes to be mastered by you? What format should we send? Stems? Or Studio One Session etc. And what a full mix cost? We are also looking at maybe setting up a dolby listening-mastering room to help indie artists... having a discussion on how to or don't do might be good too. But really felt encouraged by you yesterday to work harder at perfecting the headphone mix. Very thankful for you. Cheers, Chris
Hey Chris, great to hear from you! Feel free to email us at info@presentdayproduction.com and we’d be very happy to provide you with all the info you will need :)
So I think nostalgia is a big thing when it comes to old music Vs new music. The experiences we have as a child and teen form a very big part of our personalities, and as a result you will almost always hold fond memories of that time of your life with you as you progress through life. But also I think there has been a fundamental shift in the way that melodies of songs have been crafted, aiming more towards rhythmically structured melody lines (directly or indirectly copyright related?) rather than keeping the focus on melodic contour and shape. While we can track and remember rhythmic patterns, our brains do lock into the intonation and inflection of a voice to grasp meaning, and therefore we are programmed to hear more meaning in melody than rhythm which may explain why we may form a greater bond to the music of yesterday
Oh how I loved this conversation about Barry etc. you guys offer such a fresh perspective. Thanks for being you and encouraging the rest of us to join this new adventure.
Has anyone tried to convert a stereo mix to atmos by simply feeding the L and R channels to objects ? I know in live sound where you see things as L-ISA or Soundscape, that it works better using properly matriced L and R objects rather than feeding the channels directly to the speakers
Hey Mark, Hey James, nice to see you back! You are so right about all of the misunderstanding and misinformation about Atmos on the net. As soon Mark started to point out atmos as a delivering system instead of a format, it all started to make sense to me too. Like James mentioned the airpod pro's or the apple headphones, it's already availlable for a descent price. I'm thinking about buying me a pair of airpod pro's because on my new smartphone there is no 3,5mm audio jack anymore, the only downside is it is not a iPhone. Will airpods work on another smartphone besides iPhone or not? Anyway they should work with my Mac mini M2 pro so it would'nt be a complete mistake. Loved this livestream, verry informative and fun to watch. Also congratulations on the MUM 10. Greetings from Belgium, Johan
Hey Johan! Great to hear from you, and thanks for watching! AirPods unfortunately won’t work in Atmos with a non-Apple phone, but they will work with your Mac.
@@PresentDayProduction I would'nt mind if the airpods pro would'nt give me the atmos on a non apple phone, i just hope i can connect them to another brand phone to use them as just a normal headset.
👍🏾Ok I’m back on the Atmos train after your take, I just wish people would buy more than cheap blue tooth speakers to consume music because of all the time and effort we put into it (consumers need to experience low end for real). I myself would always invest in a multiple speaker system (for video games alone), I’m just sad people don’t know what they’re missing. When people heard my system they went out and got one…..and it wasn’t that expensive. Nice video thanks🫡
I'm a bit lost - how do you approach an atmos mix for a record with, for example - 1 guitar track and one vocal track? Wouldn't 'forced' atmos hinder a creative process? Requiring an adoption of a format that does not benefit your art-form? Honest question with no negative charge against atmos.
Thanks for the question! I personally would go for a standard stereo mix with reverbs, delays and so on in the surround channels. It doesn't have to be "everything, everywhere, all at once", it's ok to do a more minimalist mix. Sometimes we've found putting extra guitar parts in one side channel and a delay on the other is a nice effect in some songs, too!
@@PresentDayProduction Hi James, thanks for gettin back here! That's what's heavy on my heart : ) I need to add some unintended effects/parts to a record, so that it fits the atmos format. All 'n all, if debating atmos were the worst thing in the world, we'd be living in a pretty good world!
It’s definitely possible to get a very natural sounding mix with simple songs of just vocal and acoustic guitar. The extra reverb can really work well if used tastefully. Best of luck with your productions!
You keep saying you can do a atmos mix on headphones but you also keep saying you need to have a final check in a calibrated atmos room. Isn't this is putting this format outside the capability of home studios, regardless of the availability of 40 p/h rooms to check? All playback systems should have the capability of using the provided 2 channel mix rather than the fold-down surely.
Have you heard of "mastering" ? Do you think you should be mastering your own tracks on your pair of Yamaha HS8s. .. or sending them off to a mastering engineer who has a treated room and £45k ATCs (or whatever)? Same deal for Atmos. No, it is not outaide of the capability of anyone serious about their music, stereo or otherwise - you get a pro with the best system to check it over and master it. It isn't too expensive either .. If you want to do just upload your own tracks to streaming services , then do it to your best ability with what you have.. but don't expect all issues to be spotted and corrected.And remember to remove the watermark from the downloaded sample you didn't pay for!
I watched both Videos, Colt's and Barry's. I get your points 100%, but like Mark himself said, the binaural mix may change over time and this makes it difficult for smaller independent producers, musicians, yada, yada. My DAW supports ATMOS, if even with only one bed atm, but enough objects. Will I rent an ATMOS room? No, no way! Will I pay for a stereo and ATMOS master? Maybe, as of now, I am unable to upload .adm files with my distributor. I know two Iphone users and no Mac users, so the amount of people enjoying ATMOS around me is very limited and I am afraid, many won't care. None of my favorite artists released ATMOS mixes so far and I am really not sure how much it'd benefit them, apart from maybe Dead Can Dance. Just my 2c.
Good luck trying to change Berry Johns mind. I went in circles arguing with him when he said we should replace ADAT with Dante (dumb idea) which ended up with him saying he never said that... which he absolutely did, and I quoted him and pointed out the exact time in the video that he did say it. His reply was "that's not what I said" [/slaps forehead] He is the epitome of grumpy fart in the audio world.
I mean we use stereo, mono from laptop or headphones. No one who wants to use Apple music will have enough money to buy and place multiple speaker in his room to listen to Atmos. It's not there yet, mate.
@@PresentDayProduction There will always be an underground resistance movement that fights Atmos and clings to stereo hidden in dark basements and booby trapped fortified bunkers.
Listened to The Glass Frog on Apple headphones and it just sounds washy and muddy in Atmos. Now maybe better on proper Atmos speaker setup. The Stereo mix sounds great though clear and focused. I just don't like the Atmos sound in stereo, so much gets lost. Barry has a point if we are talking the collapsed to stereo sound. I need to go hear a proper Atmos setup, but there is a certain character to stereo. Photography looks real but a painting can say so much more. I have Tidal and only use Tidal so I will continue to listen with interest.
It would be great if you guys could put on your website a current “recommended list” of Atmos mixed songs and albums that you guys think are superlative examples of the art!!😃
Crazy bass, crazy vocal position, just an all-round epic mix: music.apple.com/gb/album/easy/1647675606?i=1647675980 K-Pop, good mix, heavy use of side speakers: music.apple.com/gb/album/dash/1719887126?i=1719887134 A great showcase for the detail of the MUMs, especially listen for the detail on the double bass in the intro. Subtle Dolby Atmos mix with LCR as mains and FX everywhere else. This track was re-amped Capitol Studios in LA, to re-create exactly how it was recorded. Therefore you hear all the ambience of the room, and the exact positioning, in which the musicians were standing in the original 1960s recording, it’s surprisingly clean for a 60s piece: music.apple.com/gb/album/you-look-good-to-me/1443078246?i=1443078813 Same again, a very subtle mix, with everything upfront, and just ambience behind, recorded as an Atmos production - 9 mic array above conductor’s (John Williams) head, so you hear what he hears. This one is particularly good because you can hear all the micro details in the recording, such as breaths. I think I mentioned this one for the stereo list as well: music.apple.com/gb/album/anthem-of-evil/1491567956?i=1491568490 Just pretty cool: music.apple.com/gb/album/cardigan/1524793738?i=1524793745 Dynamics!!!!: music.apple.com/gb/album/dream-of-arrakis/1583651332?i=1583651625 Hear the tight bass of your sealed cabinets: music.apple.com/gb/album/light-switch/1605257574?i=1605257577 The first commercial Dolby Atmos mix in 2013, the classic: music.apple.com/gb/album/rocket-man-i-think-its-going-to-be-a-long-long-time-remastered/1652668529?i=1652668538
Great rant Mark, but honestly nobody is gonna put 16 speakers in their living rooms. Don't you know we hear in stereo and can't hear in surround at all. :P Anyway, was wondering how much Mark charges for a Atmos master?
@@PresentDayProduction you did something that everyone had in mind when these transducers appeared. you are the first. I regret that I put together my speakers, because today I would have yours.
Thank you for clarifying about Dolby ATMOS....straight up....exactly to the point....keep up the great work....looking forward to checking out MUM 8s this month in Montreal....AND MUM 10s look fantastic too
My question: are there concerts in atmos? Are there already mixing engineers panning instruments like in a atmos studio? I ask this question because, as you said, music has become a consumer product, there are very few people sitting on a couch enjoying albums on a sofa,I think that the last frontier of listening to music, enjoying music, is the live concerts. But I’m pretty sure concerts are done the old flat stereo speakers setup… Meaning that maybe that stereo is far from dead as long as stereo is still being heard on many places
Yes, there are. Dolby Theatre in Vegas and a number of clubs in LA have Atmos playback for live events. I haven't heard it, but I can imagine it's more challenging. Would love to experience it.
54:49 I think you forget clubs and club music? Which is a big part of the industry and is often even still played back in mono. Nothing beats a proper sound system and a packed dance floor;)
Stereo will still continue for the Underground Metal scene in my opinion. Or even on undergound music in general. I pretty much agree on most of the things you said. But I have one simple question. Better have an ok soundbar that costs 500/1000€ or a good stereo system for the same amount of price ? That's my main question with it. I did put "a lot" of money on used HiFi stuff, and i'm not sure that's worth buying, even an used Dobly Soundbar. And most of the music I own won't ever be translated on Dobly Atmos.
Re: Misinformation, 25:46 Apple Music never folds down any Atmos content, if you listen on non-Apple headphones you still get binaural playback - not a stereo fold down of the Atmos. UMG suggest that Apple delivers a proper Dolby Binaural (with all the mixer's Binaural settings data) to non-apple headphones and the Apple Spatial version is only delivered to the AirPods Pro & Max etc - don't know 100% if that is the case but playing my own mixes suggests its true. One common misnomer is that you need "special" headphones to listen to Atmos binaurally which is entirely incorrect - if you see the Dolby Atmos logo on your playback screen then you're hearing Atmos.
Firstly, I'm a big fan of your channel, and greatly appreciate the exhaustive work you guys and your team have dedicated to the audio community and I wish you nothing but success, I will one day hopefully own a pair of your MUM monitors! BUT, I find your take on Atmos disingenuous. Forcing artists to provide atmos mixes is a terribly anti-creative stance. I find it hard enough convincing them to get their music properly mastered, let alone paying additional costs for atmos. The barrier to entry is far too expensive, there is no way around this, your headphone recommendation is laughable, even you said it's changing constantly. Nothing against Kali, iLoud or other monitor manufacturers but a 5k (which doesn't include the other mandatory associated costs) buy in is just not realistic for your smaller studio owners. This again is reverting production to a rich man's game, the single ATC monitor behind you is more than most small studios have to invest in the entirety of theirs. Major studios have been meeting and discussing atmos for a very long time now, let's not pretend they haven't been, I've been there personally. Also, you are not kidding anybody by saying these "fold-downs" sound better. I'll give you dynamic range, but the vocals alone are missing detail and presence as I toggle the Atmos off and on while listening to "Hip-Hop in Spatial Audio" on Apple Music, there is a very clear and audible difference. I've heard Rocket Man in atmos in a room with a lot of "sticks" on the wall (Studio C) and I agree, it sounds amazing, but the problem is in the fold down, and saying it sounds the same is mostly false. I think atmos has potential, but to force artists to only be able to upload atmos mixes is a terrible idea, effectively gatekeeping the creation and release of music.
I agree with like 90% of what the gentlemen on the left is saying. The Consumer side is not the issue. The issue is on the production side of things. And telling bedroom studios or even small project studios to just produce and mix on headphones and then get into a Dolby Certified room for a final check on speakers is a big pain in the ass, more expensive workflow then they were just doing while in the stereo format. Also to produce something and not really hear it fully (and i mean really hear it, not hearing the moving target of a binaural of spatial headphone mix but hearing it on at least a 7.1.2 setup) until the final tweaks in a dolby cert studio is not anyones idea of producing. It would be like producing for stereo using only one speaker the whole time and then going to the local mastering studio where they have the fancy 2 speaker setup so you can finally hear just hours before the world might hear what your music actually sounds like.
Haha! (Laughter of delight) - I just listened to the first track of The Glass Frog in Atmos and stereo (called The Library Edit). This on a Sony Xperia 1 V via Tidal, into wired headphones (AKG K3003i). The Atmos mix is kind of how I'd like the best stereo to sound with space and depth. Whereas the stereo version is a quite blary, middle of your ears sound .. a bit flat sounding to be honest. I'm not getting much of a surround feel in the Atmos mix (i presume my phone is folding down to binaural ) but it's definitely better - at least like listening to good speakers in a good room but on headphones.
Honestly i don't see Atmos being the standard format going forward for many reasons, the biggest being today's music is almost a worthless commodity. Companies like Spotify for instance have surley seen to that, the fact that people can listen to practically everything for free leads me to beleive people would not even invest into apple devices in order to hear atmos when they are not willing to even pay for the music. Of course Apple users are but i belive they do not make up the greater population of music lovers. I found Mark's take on it super funny and interesting because maybe people don't factor these points in when formatting an opinion. One big problem for me though is, its hard to take this advice with any senserity because you guys have skin in the game. Not alone have you guys invested heavily into the format but you also run a speaker company. I have nothing against both of you or your company but surley you can see that is somewhat of a red flag to audio community? I know i know, you would say their is no conspiracy going on which i partly agree with but what i can see is, i know at least three eingineers currently on UA-cam that swear by Atmos but also have been sponsored or paid by speakers companies to promote their products through the atmos viel, and by you saying this is not even a thing suprises me somewhat, if this is the case why are these paid ads even being made, that i find a little nieve. I am not sure if Atmos will take hold but if it does it does.
I might be wrong but as a iTunes user from the beginning of iTunes, i bought and still buy music instead of streaming it. For starters in my country you have to own (read it as payed) the music you want to play at party's, events, weddings, etc. playing streaming music on such occasions is not legal. So yes i do still pay for each number i like using iTunes. BUT you are right about the "casual listener" that uses streaming instead of buying. I'm not dj-ing anymore but still love to dj-mix at home recording retro house music and i can't record mixes from streaming services, which i find a correct way. Atmos might be the future as a delivery system BUT must be accompanied with stereo files like mp4 (iTunes) or another DJ friendly format (no not mp3 pls).
Hello! I agree with much of what you said, but I also disagree with one point. "One big problem for me though is, its hard to take this advice with any senserity because you guys have skin in the game" - to me this is such a weird perspective. Usually people are criticized for NOT having skin in the game. I think we could just as easily argue that we should take their advice more seriously because Mark and James have put their money where their mouth is. Not only have they expended valuable resources in putting together the best Atmos room they can, they even went as far as designing and manufacturing the best quality speakers they could for this purpose.
@@richardpretorius4929 yeah, no, this doesn't work the way you say it does. What the OP correctly observes is that they have a vested interest in Dolby Atmos being the next best thing because otherwise they are f****ed. If you don't think that is true, I have a bridge to sell you.
@@richardpretorius4929 I had a response telling you about how skin in the game is completely different in this case. The comment was deleted. The deletion on its own proved my point.
We haven’t deleted any comments, people are free to delete whatever they like of their own. There would be no benefit in us deleting comments (hence your other comments still showing). Also, in the interest of fair comment - 99% of our customers are stereo users so we would not be “f****d” without Atmos
I've a genuine question, how is Atmos delivered to the end user when the err, wav version of a 7.1.4 file is 6Gb? Then, for a stereo fold down, I'm guessing that full 9.6.1 highest potential of Atmos needs to be streamed to the end user before the device then folds down? And how is the fold down performed and how does processing effect the sound quality? The format seems too big data wise ....
Basically a lossy version is created and streamed to the end user. For example, if a user has 5.1 setup they will hear a 5.1 fold down that has much smaller size. It works the same for every other case.
@@gkmixing So is the end device spec first sent to the streaming service for them to then chose which fold down to stream? I guess that wouldn't be too difficult - the app will have both manual settings and also detect what is being used .. much like screen size, browser etc is sent to websites for optimization.
Stereo mixes are better when an atmos mix is folded down is very subjective and genre dependent imo. I tried Atmos on Amazon music on non Atmos headphones and phone. Some mixes sounded better, some worse. I do like the idea that someone mixing on 2 monitors can mix a track for someone listening on 2 monitors tho
Some mixes are better and some are worse, it’s as simple as that - there are a LOT of bad Atmos mixes out in the works. But there are some stunning ones too!
I think we deserve an episode on the puppy in the studio. We've had plenty of cat oriented propaganda from you guys in the past, so it's time for the Canine Liberation Front to speak.
sorry guys but you are way wrong about EVs the market has collapsed and you will wish you had bought a good estate...:( Atmos is the future EVs are not the future... I have been following EV market and its in the gutter ... I have accounts with all the big auto sales places and EVS are not selling and garages are refusing to take them as trade inns :( Don't need to b negative you guys are great at what you do :)
It would seem that practically everyone on the planet will only ever experience an Atmos ADM BWF production (good or bad) as a folded down mono, stereo or binaural version 'codec-ed' by a streaming service. I produce music in a very modest home studio with 2 speakers and a pair of good quality headphones. I actually already have 100% control of how my productions sound in mono, stereo or binaural without a corporation or an "Atmos Mastering Studio" shill to dip into my productions and bank account.
No no. You absolutely need to pay a) 50.000 $ for a setup to mix atmos on your own, or b) 500$ per mix so that a pro can do this for you, in order that your audience will listen to a stereo fold down version which will sound the same or worse than your original stereo mix or slightly better if the fold down algorithm randomly works in your mix's favor. Isn't this new world just fascinating?
I have a google pixel phone. No matter what streaming service i have, theres no way of getting "true" dolby atmos. UA-cam dont support it, spotify dont support it. Needs some big changes for this to become mainstream
Having feedback from artists, labels and all involved with the process is not what atmos is for though? It's the public that need to be on board with this. I just don't think this format will work for the general public in reality. Barry didn't have to hear it to be able to talk about the logistics of it all. If it works perfectly in headphones then maybe I'll use it, but it would have to be a real improvement over stereo in a headphone scenario. Speakers at home... nope not going to work for most people.
If you listen to the video ... he sets out that the *stereo folddown* is better in Atmos than the actual, deliberate stereo mix .. Now, that is a matter for folks to check for themselves, but those stereo fold downs still require the 7.1.4 mix to be made .
Disagree, I love music so much that I have a set of Adam A7x in the damn kitchen for listening to. No way am I going to have a Dolby Atmos system setup anywhere in my house so I can sit in the perfect position to listen to stuff. It just won't happen for most people.
Did you listen to the video? Mark sets out that the stereo fold down of an Atmos mix sounds better than a stereo mix. So it could well be that Atmos becomes the go to format for stereo delivery too... So you'll still be using Atmos for stereo . Capiche? I don't think many people really understand this whole fold down business..
the biggest problem of atmos isn't misinformation , it is the fact that the distribution is still very very small , apple doesn't even represent 20 % of the market . Pretending that the fold downs are superior to stereo IS misinformation . Please understand this one basic point : the corporate push for atmos has failed in a spectacular fashion , the excitement from the general public isn't there and is not increasing .... the screaming dude in the video sounds like a desperate NFT influencer .
Hello Robert. This seems to be false to me - Dolby Atmos is the standard for the film industry and has been for more than ten years. As far as I can tell, it's certainly a corporate push, but it is also enormously successful.
I appreciate the guys next door wanting to share their expertise. However, I would like to see you two go through the process first, winging it or following whatever instructions you wish. Then a separate video with them either: doing it again from scratch, improving your calibration and showing where they made further adjustments and why, or simply reacting to the video of you guys doing the calibration, applauding and/or correcting your actions and then briefly doing it their way.
This atmos rant is so cringe. 80% of Apple Music consumers has listened in Spatial Audio, according to Apple, but only 20% of their streams are Spatial Audio. Tidal much lower even. With the magnitude of commercial steering of customers on to the format, and yet such low adaptation, if that is not a failed format, I don’t know what is.
What?! How long so you think it took studios to record or mix to stereo back in the day? And is stereo a failed format? Jesus wept .. about the idiocy around Atmos . Hahaha
That is a non-argument. Stereo made sense because it corresponded to our ears. And now, as listening has moved more and more to headphones, stereo makes more sense than ever. There is no magic in binaural atmos/spatial. Everything that can be done in a folddown can be done in a stereomix if desired. The stubbornnes of engineers invested in atmos is admirable, though completely misguided and detached from reality.
OMG, no magic in binaural? Binaural is literally how our ears hear the 3 dimensional world we live in. Stereo can sometimes try hard to synthesis it .. but fails Why would you now do a stereo mix? Atmos delivers surround, binaural AND a stereo mix .. a all the mixer needs to work on is one 7.1.4 mix . Why would people do two or refuse to do the Atmos one?
@@natdenchfield8061 Hahahahaha. Binaural folddown is just phase, time and reverb algorithms. Exactly the same stuff we use to manipulate stereo mixes. There's nothing mysterious about it. It is just algorithms, and it sounds like s**t - that's why we do the stereo mix. So it actually sounds like the artist intended when the end user listens, and not through Dolby or Apples arbitrary (and horrible) model of reality.
47:00 it’s not about whether people care or actively hear a difference. It’s about people being given a heightened experience that will get them to care more about music. I think that’s the reason huge companies are pushing Atmos. I do wish they’d also focus on developing interesting acts, but you can’t have it all
I wish that were true, but it quite demonstrably ain't. The audience will NEVER buy proper Atmos equipment. Those binaural fold down mixes are an idiotic idea if you can already EXACTLY control what's happening in the left and right earpiece and the whole thing is just gatekeeping from the audio industry so that you and I don't have the means to produce and distribute. They so that home producers are dangerously close to making a comparable product and they took an already existing cinema oriented audio system to create a solution to a non existent problem. It will fail.
I’d like to argue that people WILL put 16 speakers in their living rooms. I’m a builder and I believe our current construction methods are primitive and bound to be evolved. When living rooms are moulded or 3d printed, or just pre-built, mounting solutions for Atmos speakers will be integrated. I also believe the automotive industry will adopt atmos
Maybe it will take a few more decades because we are still far away from a mass adoption ,for now literally nobody cares and I just heard an atmos mix in an expensive car, it sounded atrocious : just like for headphones and small speaker systems stereo sounds way better
Then turn off the spacial audio and listen to the stereo fold down *of the Atmos deliverable* . The car in that case is the problem, not the atmos stream.
@@natdenchfield8061 The lack of translation of atmos is the biggest problem, it only sounds great for music in a proper room with good speakers and in 1 sweet spot ... it doesn't sound as good as stereo on 99 % of systems used by the general public . Even those who use the most high end gear ( audiophiles ) have rejected atmos from the start .
Barry Johns is the youtube equivalent of a shock jock. He makes a living by trashing companies and anything new and different. Just about everyone I know who's heard of him thinks he is a fool.
Great content mark and james
Cheers! ;)
I completely agree with the approach to Atmos as not a speaker format like 5.1, but rather a universal format that contains every previous format inside of it.
I remember the first test mix I did on headphones and to test is I played it back on my home theater setup, then on a soundbar, on a mono homepod type of speaker and only then in a 9.1.4 Atmos certified studio. It worked beautifully everywhere. That's the power of Atmos, it's not just about having a dozen of speakers.
oh, that's super interesting! I had not heard that it translated well to multiple systems. Good to know, thank you for sharing that info, I was thinking the translation would work as poorly as a bad 5.1 mix down to stereo would. Great to know!
@@aerotekmusic that's the whole point of object-based audio. It's all about being flexible, it's not just about having a lot of speakers. :)
Marks meltdown is arguably the best I've seen on youtube.. We're talking the audio equivalent of "you got your tool? .. What tool?.. THIS FAAACKIN TOOOL!".. Mark is officially the Ray Winston of audio 🤣🤣
I've been told I do a damn good Barry John's impression but I'm yet to do it on youtube 🤣
Do it, Do it ! "Hellooooo ever-ree-one. I'm Barrry Johns"
Barry banned me within his first year on UA-cam. I comment all over your videos, Ed's, and your podcast videos, and I'm 1000% positive you guys have never considered banning me.
Thank you for putting some of that mis-information to bed, while remaining objective. You guys are a classy act. Well done!
With regard to old music versus new music, older music from the '60s, '70s and early-'80s is more structurally complex on average than most music produced these days. More chords, more complex structure gives, IMO, the ear/brain more candy to enjoy. Good music being made now, but I'm 63 and I like the complexities.
One format that can play any track on any system without worrying about system compatibility has to be a good thing.
I love that you brought out the Beryllium option for the 6's...
There might be a change in my space for the studio and it might be even smaller so I have no choice to go with the 6's...
Dreading the 100hz null I'm going to get with a extremely low ceiling
Thx for stating the facts about Dolby Atmos! My question is Do people know how much 24 track tape machines and consoles cost back in the day? They were expensive AF! I know because I still have both of those dinosaurs sitting in my garage... The point being is that yes, buying an Atmos monitor system is expensive however so is buying a new Mac computer and everything else when it comes to studio gear PERIOD! It is the cost you Pay to Play. In your home or other studio...
My burning question for another video... can you give us an idea of pricing and or process if we were to send our headphone dolby mixes to be mastered by you? What format should we send? Stems? Or Studio One Session etc. And what a full mix cost? We are also looking at maybe setting up a dolby listening-mastering room to help indie artists... having a discussion on how to or don't do might be good too. But really felt encouraged by you yesterday to work harder at perfecting the headphone mix. Very thankful for you. Cheers, Chris
Hey Chris, great to hear from you!
Feel free to email us at info@presentdayproduction.com and we’d be very happy to provide you with all the info you will need :)
What’s the difference between the Mum8 and 10 besides the size?
The MUM-10 offers lower/further bass extension, louder SPL and a sub-like bass sound
So I think nostalgia is a big thing when it comes to old music Vs new music. The experiences we have as a child and teen form a very big part of our personalities, and as a result you will almost always hold fond memories of that time of your life with you as you progress through life. But also I think there has been a fundamental shift in the way that melodies of songs have been crafted, aiming more towards rhythmically structured melody lines (directly or indirectly copyright related?) rather than keeping the focus on melodic contour and shape. While we can track and remember rhythmic patterns, our brains do lock into the intonation and inflection of a voice to grasp meaning, and therefore we are programmed to hear more meaning in melody than rhythm which may explain why we may form a greater bond to the music of yesterday
Oh how I loved this conversation about Barry etc. you guys offer such a fresh perspective. Thanks for being you and encouraging the rest of us to join this new adventure.
I love the Baldrick Blackadder reference
Has anyone tried to convert a stereo mix to atmos by simply feeding the L and R channels to objects ?
I know in live sound where you see things as L-ISA or Soundscape, that it works better using properly matriced L and R objects rather than feeding the channels directly to the speakers
I want mixing atmos in headphones! lol I’m a Cubase user, I have an idea of how to set it up and sort of do it, but I need to know more
Hey Mark, Hey James, nice to see you back! You are so right about all of the misunderstanding and misinformation about Atmos on the net. As soon Mark started to point out atmos as a delivering system instead of a format, it all started to make sense to me too. Like James mentioned the airpod pro's or the apple headphones, it's already availlable for a descent price. I'm thinking about buying me a pair of airpod pro's because on my new smartphone there is no 3,5mm audio jack anymore, the only downside is it is not a iPhone. Will airpods work on another smartphone besides iPhone or not? Anyway they should work with my Mac mini M2 pro so it would'nt be a complete mistake. Loved this livestream, verry informative and fun to watch. Also congratulations on the MUM 10. Greetings from Belgium, Johan
Hey Johan!
Great to hear from you, and thanks for watching! AirPods unfortunately won’t work in Atmos with a non-Apple phone, but they will work with your Mac.
@@PresentDayProduction I would'nt mind if the airpods pro would'nt give me the atmos on a non apple phone, i just hope i can connect them to another brand phone to use them as just a normal headset.
@MuLtI1970_MIDI_channel I think that works
👍🏾Ok I’m back on the Atmos train after your take, I just wish people would buy more than cheap blue tooth speakers to consume music because of all the time and effort we put into it (consumers need to experience low end for real). I myself would always invest in a multiple speaker system (for video games alone), I’m just sad people don’t know what they’re missing. When people heard my system they went out and got one…..and it wasn’t that expensive. Nice video thanks🫡
I'm a bit lost - how do you approach an atmos mix for a record with, for example - 1 guitar track and one vocal track?
Wouldn't 'forced' atmos hinder a creative process? Requiring an adoption of a format that does not benefit your art-form?
Honest question with no negative charge against atmos.
I am also interested to learn, good questions.
Thanks for the question! I personally would go for a standard stereo mix with reverbs, delays and so on in the surround channels. It doesn't have to be "everything, everywhere, all at once", it's ok to do a more minimalist mix.
Sometimes we've found putting extra guitar parts in one side channel and a delay on the other is a nice effect in some songs, too!
@@PresentDayProduction Hi James, thanks for gettin back here!
That's what's heavy on my heart : ) I need to add some unintended effects/parts to a record, so that it fits the atmos format.
All 'n all, if debating atmos were the worst thing in the world, we'd be living in a pretty good world!
It’s definitely possible to get a very natural sounding mix with simple songs of just vocal and acoustic guitar. The extra reverb can really work well if used tastefully. Best of luck with your productions!
You keep saying you can do a atmos mix on headphones but you also keep saying you need to have a final check in a calibrated atmos room. Isn't this is putting this format outside the capability of home studios, regardless of the availability of 40 p/h rooms to check? All playback systems should have the capability of using the provided 2 channel mix rather than the fold-down surely.
Have you heard of "mastering" ?
Do you think you should be mastering your own tracks on your pair of Yamaha HS8s. .. or sending them off to a mastering engineer who has a treated room and £45k ATCs (or whatever)?
Same deal for Atmos. No, it is not outaide of the capability of anyone serious about their music, stereo or otherwise - you get a pro with the best system to check it over and master it. It isn't too expensive either ..
If you want to do just upload your own tracks to streaming services , then do it to your best ability with what you have.. but don't expect all issues to be spotted and corrected.And remember to remove the watermark from the downloaded sample you didn't pay for!
@@natdenchfield8061 Have a nice day
@@natdenchfield8061Have a nice day
@@natdenchfield8061 Remember to get out of bed the right side tomorrow
I watched both Videos, Colt's and Barry's. I get your points 100%, but like Mark himself said, the binaural mix may change over time and this makes it difficult for smaller independent producers, musicians, yada, yada. My DAW supports ATMOS, if even with only one bed atm, but enough objects.
Will I rent an ATMOS room? No, no way! Will I pay for a stereo and ATMOS master? Maybe, as of now, I am unable to upload .adm files with my distributor.
I know two Iphone users and no Mac users, so the amount of people enjoying ATMOS around me is very limited and I am afraid, many won't care.
None of my favorite artists released ATMOS mixes so far and I am really not sure how much it'd benefit them, apart from maybe Dead Can Dance.
Just my 2c.
Good luck trying to change Berry Johns mind. I went in circles arguing with him when he said we should replace ADAT with Dante (dumb idea) which ended up with him saying he never said that... which he absolutely did, and I quoted him and pointed out the exact time in the video that he did say it. His reply was "that's not what I said" [/slaps forehead] He is the epitome of grumpy fart in the audio world.
"a surround system consisting of... 5 point... nothing. It was only the MUM 10s..." haha. great.
"Stereo is starting to die already. Because manufacturers know stereo is a very very flawed format." OMG that's hilarious! 😂
It's super hilarious. I'm in favor of ATMOS, but I'm also in favor of stereo. Stereo rocks!!!!
Will you do a discounted preloved 8 model as people trade up to the 10's?
They'll probably do one better and offer a sub unit for MUM-8s that goes deeper than the MUM-10.
I don’t see why not! We’ll also offer a discount for the first 24 MUM-10 orders
@@PresentDayProduction Thats great, I'm sure they will get snapped up fast, love what youse guys are doing.
I mean we use stereo, mono from laptop or headphones. No one who wants to use Apple music will have enough money to buy and place multiple speaker in his room to listen to Atmos. It's not there yet, mate.
@@Sardonicuss this point is addressed in the video
That’s the entire point of our video
@@PresentDayProduction There will always be an underground resistance movement that fights Atmos and clings to stereo hidden in dark basements and booby trapped fortified bunkers.
@@zaphodrahja For now and for the foreseeable future , Atmos is the underground movement lol even after the failed corporate push
Listened to The Glass Frog on Apple headphones and it just sounds washy and muddy in Atmos. Now maybe better on proper Atmos speaker setup. The Stereo mix sounds great though clear and focused. I just don't like the Atmos sound in stereo, so much gets lost. Barry has a point if we are talking the collapsed to stereo sound. I need to go hear a proper Atmos setup, but there is a certain character to stereo. Photography looks real but a painting can say so much more. I have Tidal and only use Tidal so I will continue to listen with interest.
It would be great if you guys could put on your website a current “recommended list” of Atmos mixed songs and albums that you guys think are superlative examples of the art!!😃
Crazy bass, crazy vocal position, just an all-round epic mix:
music.apple.com/gb/album/easy/1647675606?i=1647675980
K-Pop, good mix, heavy use of side speakers:
music.apple.com/gb/album/dash/1719887126?i=1719887134
A great showcase for the detail of the MUMs, especially listen for the detail on the double bass in the intro. Subtle Dolby Atmos mix with LCR as mains and FX everywhere else. This track was re-amped Capitol Studios in LA, to re-create exactly how it was recorded. Therefore you hear all the ambience of the room, and the exact positioning, in which the musicians were standing in the original 1960s recording, it’s surprisingly clean for a 60s piece:
music.apple.com/gb/album/you-look-good-to-me/1443078246?i=1443078813
Same again, a very subtle mix, with everything upfront, and just ambience behind, recorded as an Atmos production - 9 mic array above conductor’s (John Williams) head, so you hear what he hears. This one is particularly good because you can hear all the micro details in the recording, such as breaths. I think I mentioned this one for the stereo list as well:
music.apple.com/gb/album/anthem-of-evil/1491567956?i=1491568490
Just pretty cool:
music.apple.com/gb/album/cardigan/1524793738?i=1524793745
Dynamics!!!!:
music.apple.com/gb/album/dream-of-arrakis/1583651332?i=1583651625
Hear the tight bass of your sealed cabinets:
music.apple.com/gb/album/light-switch/1605257574?i=1605257577
The first commercial Dolby Atmos mix in 2013, the classic:
music.apple.com/gb/album/rocket-man-i-think-its-going-to-be-a-long-long-time-remastered/1652668529?i=1652668538
@@PresentDayProduction thanks, guys!!😃❤️
How do you play a mix version for the client to listen to, f.i. on his headphone? Which player can play this format?
Found out it's possible on a Mac using Preview (or Quicktime player)
Yes exporting an MP4 ADM works well for playback on an iPhone / Mac and AirPods
Great rant Mark, but honestly nobody is gonna put 16 speakers in their living rooms.
Don't you know we hear in stereo and can't hear in surround at all. :P
Anyway, was wondering how much Mark charges for a Atmos master?
Haha! Grrrrr…… 🤬
Feel free to drop us an email at info@presentdayproduction.com and we would be more than happy to have a chat!
Killer speakers. Top of the top
Thank you so much!
@@PresentDayProduction you did something that everyone had in mind when these transducers appeared. you are the first. I regret that I put together my speakers, because today I would have yours.
Thank you for clarifying about Dolby ATMOS....straight up....exactly to the point....keep up the great work....looking forward to checking out MUM 8s this month in Montreal....AND MUM 10s look fantastic too
My question: are there concerts in atmos? Are there already mixing engineers panning instruments like in a atmos studio?
I ask this question because, as you said, music has become a
consumer product, there are very few people sitting on a couch enjoying albums on a sofa,I think that the last frontier of listening to music, enjoying music, is the live concerts. But I’m pretty sure concerts are done the old flat stereo speakers setup… Meaning that maybe that stereo is far from dead as long as stereo is still being heard on many places
Yes, there are. Dolby Theatre in Vegas and a number of clubs in LA have Atmos playback for live events. I haven't heard it, but I can imagine it's more challenging. Would love to experience it.
@1:47:41 You should definitely do that. "The devaluation of music over the years (since the dawm of time)" ;-)
54:49 I think you forget clubs and club music? Which is a big part of the industry and is often even still played back in mono. Nothing beats a proper sound system and a packed dance floor;)
Stereo will still continue for the Underground Metal scene in my opinion. Or even on undergound music in general.
I pretty much agree on most of the things you said. But I have one simple question. Better have an ok soundbar that costs 500/1000€ or a good stereo system for the same amount of price ?
That's my main question with it. I did put "a lot" of money on used HiFi stuff, and i'm not sure that's worth buying, even an used Dobly Soundbar. And most of the music I own won't ever be translated on Dobly Atmos.
Re: Misinformation, 25:46 Apple Music never folds down any Atmos content, if you listen on non-Apple headphones you still get binaural playback - not a stereo fold down of the Atmos. UMG suggest that Apple delivers a proper Dolby Binaural (with all the mixer's Binaural settings data) to non-apple headphones and the Apple Spatial version is only delivered to the AirPods Pro & Max etc - don't know 100% if that is the case but playing my own mixes suggests its true. One common misnomer is that you need "special" headphones to listen to Atmos binaurally which is entirely incorrect - if you see the Dolby Atmos logo on your playback screen then you're hearing Atmos.
so how many speakers do i need in my living room?
2
Firstly, I'm a big fan of your channel, and greatly appreciate the exhaustive work you guys and your team have dedicated to the audio community and I wish you nothing but success, I will one day hopefully own a pair of your MUM monitors! BUT, I find your take on Atmos disingenuous. Forcing artists to provide atmos mixes is a terribly anti-creative stance. I find it hard enough convincing them to get their music properly mastered, let alone paying additional costs for atmos. The barrier to entry is far too expensive, there is no way around this, your headphone recommendation is laughable, even you said it's changing constantly. Nothing against Kali, iLoud or other monitor manufacturers but a 5k (which doesn't include the other mandatory associated costs) buy in is just not realistic for your smaller studio owners. This again is reverting production to a rich man's game, the single ATC monitor behind you is more than most small studios have to invest in the entirety of theirs. Major studios have been meeting and discussing atmos for a very long time now, let's not pretend they haven't been, I've been there personally. Also, you are not kidding anybody by saying these "fold-downs" sound better. I'll give you dynamic range, but the vocals alone are missing detail and presence as I toggle the Atmos off and on while listening to "Hip-Hop in Spatial Audio" on Apple Music, there is a very clear and audible difference. I've heard Rocket Man in atmos in a room with a lot of "sticks" on the wall (Studio C) and I agree, it sounds amazing, but the problem is in the fold down, and saying it sounds the same is mostly false. I think atmos has potential, but to force artists to only be able to upload atmos mixes is a terrible idea, effectively gatekeeping the creation and release of music.
To break it down.
Artist costs per song:
Beat- €20-40
Recording/Mixing - €40-60
Mastering- €60
Atmos- €20-???
Ditrokid Atmos fee- €20
It’s prohibitively expensive for artists.
I agree with like 90% of what the gentlemen on the left is saying. The Consumer side is not the issue. The issue is on the production side of things. And telling bedroom studios or even small project studios to just produce and mix on headphones and then get into a Dolby Certified room for a final check on speakers is a big pain in the ass, more expensive workflow then they were just doing while in the stereo format. Also to produce something and not really hear it fully (and i mean really hear it, not hearing the moving target of a binaural of spatial headphone mix but hearing it on at least a 7.1.2 setup) until the final tweaks in a dolby cert studio is not anyones idea of producing. It would be like producing for stereo using only one speaker the whole time and then going to the local mastering studio where they have the fancy 2 speaker setup so you can finally hear just hours before the world might hear what your music actually sounds like.
lol UA-cam is so small, I’ve been watching Barry for years just cause of soothing tones…
Can the mum 10 do 110+ db @ 25-30hz on the hypex 252?
LOVE the Purifi drivers
Haha! (Laughter of delight) - I just listened to the first track of The Glass Frog in Atmos and stereo (called The Library Edit). This on a Sony Xperia 1 V via Tidal, into wired headphones (AKG K3003i).
The Atmos mix is kind of how I'd like the best stereo to sound with space and depth. Whereas the stereo version is a quite blary, middle of your ears sound .. a bit flat sounding to be honest.
I'm not getting much of a surround feel in the Atmos mix (i presume my phone is folding down to binaural ) but it's definitely better - at least like listening to good speakers in a good room but on headphones.
Honestly i don't see Atmos being the standard format going forward for many reasons, the biggest being today's music is almost a worthless commodity. Companies like Spotify for instance have surley seen to that, the fact that people can listen to practically everything for free leads me to beleive people would not even invest into apple devices in order to hear atmos when they are not willing to even pay for the music. Of course Apple users are but i belive they do not make up the greater population of music lovers.
I found Mark's take on it super funny and interesting because maybe people don't factor these points in when formatting an opinion. One big problem for me though is, its hard to take this advice with any senserity because you guys have skin in the game. Not alone have you guys invested heavily into the format but you also run a speaker company. I have nothing against both of you or your company but surley you can see that is somewhat of a red flag to audio community?
I know i know, you would say their is no conspiracy going on which i partly agree with but what i can see is, i know at least three eingineers currently on UA-cam that swear by Atmos but also have been sponsored or paid by speakers companies to promote their products through the atmos viel, and by you saying this is not even a thing suprises me somewhat, if this is the case why are these paid ads even being made, that i find a little nieve. I am not sure if Atmos will take hold but if it does it does.
I might be wrong but as a iTunes user from the beginning of iTunes, i bought and still buy music instead of streaming it.
For starters in my country you have to own (read it as payed) the music you want to play at party's, events, weddings, etc. playing streaming music on such occasions is not legal. So yes i do still pay for each number i like using iTunes.
BUT you are right about the "casual listener" that uses streaming instead of buying. I'm not dj-ing anymore but still love to dj-mix at home recording retro house music and i can't record mixes from streaming services, which i find a correct way. Atmos might be the future as a delivery system BUT must be accompanied with stereo files like mp4 (iTunes) or another DJ friendly format (no not mp3 pls).
Hello! I agree with much of what you said, but I also disagree with one point.
"One big problem for me though is, its hard to take this advice with any senserity because you guys have skin in the game" - to me this is such a weird perspective. Usually people are criticized for NOT having skin in the game. I think we could just as easily argue that we should take their advice more seriously because Mark and James have put their money where their mouth is. Not only have they expended valuable resources in putting together the best Atmos room they can, they even went as far as designing and manufacturing the best quality speakers they could for this purpose.
@@richardpretorius4929 yeah, no, this doesn't work the way you say it does. What the OP correctly observes is that they have a vested interest in Dolby Atmos being the next best thing because otherwise they are f****ed. If you don't think that is true, I have a bridge to sell you.
@@richardpretorius4929 I had a response telling you about how skin in the game is completely different in this case. The comment was deleted. The deletion on its own proved my point.
We haven’t deleted any comments, people are free to delete whatever they like of their own. There would be no benefit in us deleting comments (hence your other comments still showing).
Also, in the interest of fair comment - 99% of our customers are stereo users so we would not be “f****d” without Atmos
I've a genuine question, how is Atmos delivered to the end user when the err, wav version of a 7.1.4 file is 6Gb? Then, for a stereo fold down, I'm guessing that full 9.6.1 highest potential of Atmos needs to be streamed to the end user before the device then folds down? And how is the fold down performed and how does processing effect the sound quality?
The format seems too big data wise ....
Basically a lossy version is created and streamed to the end user. For example, if a user has 5.1 setup they will hear a 5.1 fold down that has much smaller size. It works the same for every other case.
@@gkmixing So is the end device spec first sent to the streaming service for them to then chose which fold down to stream?
I guess that wouldn't be too difficult - the app will have both manual settings and also detect what is being used .. much like screen size, browser etc is sent to websites for optimization.
Beatles white album in mono or stereo... or boyzone in Atmos? The performance and art is everything. Atmos = gimmick
Time stamps?
Stereo mixes are better when an atmos mix is folded down is very subjective and genre dependent imo. I tried Atmos on Amazon music on non Atmos headphones and phone. Some mixes sounded better, some worse. I do like the idea that someone mixing on 2 monitors can mix a track for someone listening on 2 monitors tho
Some mixes are better and some are worse, it’s as simple as that - there are a LOT of bad Atmos mixes out in the works. But there are some stunning ones too!
Are you being paid separately for the atmos mixes or are they part of the delivery work you’re doing? Just curious
Atmos mixes are separately chargeable
I think we deserve an episode on the puppy in the studio. We've had plenty of cat oriented propaganda from you guys in the past, so it's time for the Canine Liberation Front to speak.
sorry guys but you are way wrong about EVs the market has collapsed and you will wish you had bought a good estate...:( Atmos is the future EVs are not the future... I have been following EV market and its in the gutter ... I have accounts with all the big auto sales places and EVS are not selling and garages are refusing to take them as trade inns :( Don't need to b negative you guys are great at what you do :)
It would seem that practically everyone on the planet will only ever experience an Atmos ADM BWF production (good or bad) as a folded down mono, stereo or binaural version 'codec-ed' by a streaming service. I produce music in a very modest home studio with 2 speakers and a pair of good quality headphones. I actually already have 100% control of how my productions sound in mono, stereo or binaural without a corporation or an "Atmos Mastering Studio" shill to dip into my productions and bank account.
No no. You absolutely need to pay a) 50.000 $ for a setup to mix atmos on your own, or b) 500$ per mix so that a pro can do this for you, in order that your audience will listen to a stereo fold down version which will sound the same or worse than your original stereo mix or slightly better if the fold down algorithm randomly works in your mix's favor. Isn't this new world just fascinating?
I have a google pixel phone. No matter what streaming service i have, theres no way of getting "true" dolby atmos. UA-cam dont support it, spotify dont support it. Needs some big changes for this to become mainstream
You also don´t need 16 speakers to mix it. And those who have them does not do a better job.
Super koo Barry and Colt! Edit they weren't on the show... ok to get older ppl on the atmos train... mix floyd pompei, sgt peppers etc...
Having feedback from artists, labels and all involved with the process is not what atmos is for though? It's the public that need to be on board with this. I just don't think this format will work for the general public in reality. Barry didn't have to hear it to be able to talk about the logistics of it all. If it works perfectly in headphones then maybe I'll use it, but it would have to be a real improvement over stereo in a headphone scenario. Speakers at home... nope not going to work for most people.
If you listen to the video ... he sets out that the *stereo folddown* is better in Atmos than the actual, deliberate stereo mix ..
Now, that is a matter for folks to check for themselves, but those stereo fold downs still require the 7.1.4 mix to be made .
Disagree, I love music so much that I have a set of Adam A7x in the damn kitchen for listening to. No way am I going to have a Dolby Atmos system setup anywhere in my house so I can sit in the perfect position to listen to stuff. It just won't happen for most people.
Did you listen to the video? Mark sets out that the stereo fold down of an Atmos mix sounds better than a stereo mix. So it could well be that Atmos becomes the go to format for stereo delivery too...
So you'll still be using Atmos for stereo . Capiche? I don't think many people really understand this whole fold down business..
You are one of those people who uses face mask.
Oh wow! So now anything that is about change and improvement is resisted by anti-vaxers !
Hahaha The new Luddites .
the biggest problem of atmos isn't misinformation , it is the fact that the distribution is still very very small , apple doesn't even represent 20 % of the market . Pretending that the fold downs are superior to stereo IS misinformation . Please understand this one basic point : the corporate push for atmos has failed in a spectacular fashion , the excitement from the general public isn't there and is not increasing .... the screaming dude in the video sounds like a desperate NFT influencer .
Exactly - consumers have already made their statement. They don’t want it, simple as that :)
Hello Robert. This seems to be false to me - Dolby Atmos is the standard for the film industry and has been for more than ten years. As far as I can tell, it's certainly a corporate push, but it is also enormously successful.
I use AMFG SysTune Pro since it’s release… German Engineering
Would love to have your mums round my house…..😬😬🙈😂
Imagine 7 mum's around you in a circle around you in the middle, 4 leaning over you .. and 1 just in the corner somewhere watching on..
Don’t give Mark any ideas…
I appreciate the guys next door wanting to share their expertise. However, I would like to see you two go through the process first, winging it or following whatever instructions you wish. Then a separate video with them either: doing it again from scratch, improving your calibration and showing where they made further adjustments and why, or simply reacting to the video of you guys doing the calibration, applauding and/or correcting your actions and then briefly doing it their way.
That’s not a bad idea at all
This atmos rant is so cringe. 80% of Apple Music consumers has listened in Spatial Audio, according to Apple, but only 20% of their streams are Spatial Audio. Tidal much lower even.
With the magnitude of commercial steering of customers on to the format, and yet such low adaptation, if that is not a failed format, I don’t know what is.
What?! How long so you think it took studios to record or mix to stereo back in the day? And is stereo a failed format?
Jesus wept .. about the idiocy around Atmos . Hahaha
That is a non-argument. Stereo made sense because it corresponded to our ears. And now, as listening has moved more and more to headphones, stereo makes more sense than ever.
There is no magic in binaural atmos/spatial. Everything that can be done in a folddown can be done in a stereomix if desired. The stubbornnes of engineers invested in atmos is admirable, though completely misguided and detached from reality.
OMG, no magic in binaural? Binaural is literally how our ears hear the 3 dimensional world we live in. Stereo can sometimes try hard to synthesis it .. but fails
Why would you now do a stereo mix? Atmos delivers surround, binaural AND a stereo mix .. a all the mixer needs to work on is one 7.1.4 mix . Why would people do two or refuse to do the Atmos one?
@@natdenchfield8061 Hahahahaha. Binaural folddown is just phase, time and reverb algorithms. Exactly the same stuff we use to manipulate stereo mixes. There's nothing mysterious about it. It is just algorithms, and it sounds like s**t - that's why we do the stereo mix. So it actually sounds like the artist intended when the end user listens, and not through Dolby or Apples arbitrary (and horrible) model of reality.
@@vilddyr Hello Vilddyr. Could you explain what you mean by this? What's the logic behind "I have two ears so I only want / need two speaker?"
47:00 it’s not about whether people care or actively hear a difference. It’s about people being given a heightened experience that will get them to care more about music. I think that’s the reason huge companies are pushing Atmos. I do wish they’d also focus on developing interesting acts, but you can’t have it all
I wish that were true, but it quite demonstrably ain't. The audience will NEVER buy proper Atmos equipment. Those binaural fold down mixes are an idiotic idea if you can already EXACTLY control what's happening in the left and right earpiece and the whole thing is just gatekeeping from the audio industry so that you and I don't have the means to produce and distribute. They so that home producers are dangerously close to making a comparable product and they took an already existing cinema oriented audio system to create a solution to a non existent problem. It will fail.
I actually had to block B.J, as this isn't the first time that he's sprouted great gobs of horsie poo .
I’d like to argue that people WILL put 16 speakers in their living rooms. I’m a builder and I believe our current construction methods are primitive and bound to be evolved. When living rooms are moulded or 3d printed, or just pre-built, mounting solutions for Atmos speakers will be integrated. I also believe the automotive industry will adopt atmos
Maybe it will take a few more decades because we are still far away from a mass adoption ,for now literally nobody cares and I just heard an atmos mix in an expensive car, it sounded atrocious : just like for headphones and small speaker systems stereo sounds way better
Then turn off the spacial audio and listen to the stereo fold down *of the Atmos deliverable* .
The car in that case is the problem, not the atmos stream.
@@natdenchfield8061 The lack of translation of atmos is the biggest problem, it only sounds great for music in a proper room with good speakers and in 1 sweet spot ... it doesn't sound as good as stereo on 99 % of systems used by the general public . Even those who use the most high end gear ( audiophiles ) have rejected atmos from the start .
@@robertcollado2955 that’s just all untrue. Opinionated fiction not facts
@@robertcollado2955 what car?
I don’t see how Barry John’s is any authority in the music industry. Guy’s an absolute amateur imo. Terrible at mixing. Get rid of those Adam’s I say
Those observations apply to most if not all you tubers
Barry Johns is the youtube equivalent of a shock jock. He makes a living by trashing companies and anything new and different. Just about everyone I know who's heard of him thinks he is a fool.