Aggressive Behavior | Autism Nonverbal Singing (S2E47)
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- The morning was tough. Braylee (our autistic daughter who is 6 years old) was aggressive and not happy about something. We could not figure out why. She has actually had 3 mornings in a row like this so we are really paying attention to changes we may have made or something different that is happening through the night. She has been waking up earlier than normal as well. After the tough morning we really had a good day. We always have to remember, a rough few hours does not have to ruin a whole day. #autism #weefam
Is it just me or did anyone else hear "ba ba black shee and yes sir yes sir" I understand non verbal sounds sometimes
Just "fit" but I replayed it again and again to confirm.
Whether or not, Braylee is adorable and I hate that she rode the struggle bus awhile again today
It was baa baa black sheep. She can say words more clearly when singing than just verbalizing typically. 😊
It was Sunday and today primarily so we have fingers crossed that we aren’t in a rough stretch.
I definitely heard it and in the correct place! Our non-verbal daughter does the same thing! Music Therapy has expanded these skills and unlocked a part of her brain to be available for communication. It is amazing what music can do!
I heard it so sweet💖💖
That’s amazing!!! We are still going with music therapy and it’s been pretty good for B 🙂
She can be a gymnast in the future. Let her explore gymnastics.
She is the cutest little thing! I can only imagine the frustration these children feel with being unable to fully communicate what they want. We've had a rough couple of days as well in this respect. It has come out as anger and physical hitting, pushing etc. Today was a little bit better, so hopefully we're climbing out a bit!
I know 😞 it must be so hard for them. I’d be super frustrated if it was me. I hope you’re coming out of it as well!
@@TheWeeFamily Braylee is a great singer!!!
Parents seem like best friends. That will certainly make a great difference. Sometimes one parent will emotionally or even physically abandon the family when a child has a problem,but these two work as a team.
Teamwork makes the dream work! We have our moments like everyone does, for sure, but are both always very present and involved for Braylee 🙂
It’s unfortunate that happens sometimes.
Music Therapy would be an excellent option for her. She does talk...I hear lots of words. Music is the tool to use to get her talking. My son loves music as well. Thank you for sharing.
In order to try and shorten the behaviors supplying her short 1-3 word phrases such as "I"m mad" "Hurts" "I'm sleepy". Keep trying phrases until it clicks. You'll know when you got the right one. Also try tracking how many times the behavior occurs and the antecedent, behavior and consequences. Then manipulate the antecedent next time in results of a different behavior...she is Absolutely precious!!!
Source: I'm a therapist in an ABA therapy clinic.
We do try to keep it short but are still practicing that one. We have found at least one phrase that’s been helpful so I can definitely see how that would work!
Awesome input though! Thank you for the suggestions! 🙂
My goodness she is precious. I'm a 1:1 for elementary kiddos. I hope all is well for you and your family in this tough time.
Thank you ❤️ she is doing better than we expected. We hope you are well 🙂
She was singing baa baa black sheep.. and did well with the "Yes Sir, Yes Sir"
I’m not formally diagnosed with autism, but I have a hunch I may have autism. I have trouble with communication, social anxiety, and SPD. My mom gets frustrated with me when I stim (typically rocking or flapping) because she doesn’t get that it’s the only thing that calms me sometimes. I get how Braylee feels when she can’t communicate with y’all. It’s really annoying when you try to talk to someone but you just can’t. She’s getting so big!! I love y’all so much!!
Stimming helps Braylee regulate and express things so we let her do them freely. I imagine not being able to communicate is so hard for her. I know I’d feel frustrated!!
Much Love to you. I hope you have people in your life that accept you. 💞💞💞💞💕💕💕💕💕💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💝💝💝💝
I know as parents that love your child it has to be super hard not knowing what's wrong sometimes!!!! Dance party was awesome! Sing it dad lol
Tanya Miller right:( super frustrating
Music Therapy would be an excellent option for her. She does talk...I hear lots of words. Music is the tool to use to get her talking. My son loves music as well.
I'm a behaviour therapist and work with kids with autism. You are the best parents she could ever have. The redirection using a chewy is perfect. You say you're just guessing what she is upset about, but you know her best.
Edit: This video just popped into my feed so I don't know much about you or your daughter. If you ever need visuals for a choice board to present her with when she is upset, feel free to let me know.
Thank you so much that’s always reassuring to hear 🙂
Awwww, so sweet! ❤
4:40 She is absolutely singing Bah bah black sheep have you any wool ..... yes sir yes sir 3 bags full. You can hear the melody and her trying to pronounce the words but i definitely understood what she was singing. She would really be phenomenal in a music therapy setting! What a darling !
She has started music therapy since this video was originally posted 😃
I swear miss “B” is so beautiful, she looks just like her mama!!!!!
Thank you! 🥰
You have the most delightful child. She is absolutely precious and sweet.
Thank you!
Such a brave string little girl so sad to see her so distressed but your amazing mum and dad, I love her singing it's so beautiful
You guys handled that rough patch so well! I found that my work kiddos totally fed off whatever I was projecting, so I made a point of staying chill as possible, finding humorous little moments (not caused by distress) and not giving a crap what anyone else thought (besides parents and co-workers). I love that everyone's day turned around and you could go to bed happier. It's hard as a therapist's heart when kiddos are upset, distressed and dysregulated but can't communicate why; I can only imagine how it feels to a parent.
Braylee reminds me so much of one of the kids I worked with eons ago. She had similar communication, behaviour and food preferences but loved drawing, getting messy, anything musical, girly outfits/accessories and the singing! The first time I heard Braylee sing, my jaw dropped. I bet they would have made good friends. I hope Braylee finds a posse of friends who share many of her interests, and that she will always sing the songs in her heart. Maybe the school bus will turn into a tour bus after the garage band. Lol
We have gotten better about not projecting and staying calm and it’s made a huge difference.
That does sound exactly like B.
My teenage son is on the spectrum. He has been taking a supplement regiment of vitamin D3, B complex, Omega 3, probiotic and Gaba. Lately he ran out of Gaba and was having melt downs weekly. Once he was able to continue taking Gaba daily, he felt so much better. He was able to share this with me. Take care. My heart goes out to you and your family. I just wanted to share what we found helped us out.
Sounded like she was trying to sing twinkle twinkle little star. She's a sweetheart
She was singing that one or whichever songs interchange with it 😄
She is blessed to have you two as parents!
Baa Baa Black Sheep Have You Any Wool.....sing it Brailey!! We love to hear that beautiful voice girly❤️
Definitely sounded like that to me too. She must love that song
My son has days like this, he is verbal and high functioning bur there are some days where the verbal stimming/rough behavior is pretty much a constant, usually the days we are cooped up inside (we've found that some time outside on days like this really seems to help). Also, I find it awesome and interesting that she likes electronic music, my boy does too and we call them dance parties too!
Mom, I can see the stress on your face hun, mirrors my own sometimes. Don't forget self care! ❤
You are great parents! Thank you for celebrating how happy she was outside just being herself.
Baa baa black sheep.. lol it's stuck in my head. That was so cute tho
My son is 11 and nonverbal also. He goes through phases with being upset. He will have a few of being fine, and then about a week of being upset. He will just cry and get really worked up for no reason that I can explain. My son is the same, if you pay too much attention to it, he gets more pissed. So I will sometimes just go sit in the other room or bathroom for about 20 minutes. Just giving him his space. It seems to help. My son also sings a lot and dances lol. It is my favorite.
You guys are doing really well. Sending your family love. 🙂
Braylee is the same way. She has very emotional “phases” for a a few days to a week or so at a time and sometimes any small thing can set her off, it’s just really irritable time for her. We do the same, we really just give her safe space without stimulation to calm herself. Braylee is definitely a little songbird, now she’s starting to like dancing to music and it’s the cutest thing 😊
We have these days to with our older son he has these moments and I wait them out and then hes so happy after words you guys are truly amazing
I have a 7 year old with non-verbal autism and I never new why he was so upset all the time until it happened to me. I was incubated last year and when I woke up, I was still intubated for a few days. Not being able to communicate what you need is EXTREMELY frustrating. Now I know. I'm also a nurse. I used to take care of patients on chronic ventilators, and some of them would get so frustrated when we didn't know what they needed that they would throw things at us. These are cognitively intact adults. So yes, it's so frustrating that all you want to do is cry. I feel deeply for our children. You guys are doing a great job with her. Giving her something different to chew on rather than hurt herself. We can only do so much...
Hi there, my son is 3 years old and just got diagnosed. He is also nonverbal and I cant believe how much I recognise him in your videos so I had to sub because Im looking for tips n tricks and also maybe learn along the way while enjoying ur content. You guys are amazing parents. It hit me when you said its hard not to know what the kid wants to get out of their behaviour in certain moments when anger takes over or frustration. Your daughters beautiful and I enjoyed seeing her so vocal:-)
I’m glad that you can relate to our girl. Hopefully we have some valuable tips and tricks for you 😄
She is so amazing.
I'm so glad I'm not the only parent that has rough mornings
I’m so happy she’s trying to sing and to be honest she’s doing great at singing and I’m not lying it’s still good she’s trying to sing even though she can’t talk, I can tell she will be an great singer when she grows up if she can keep practicing, I also have autism myself but not as severe , new subscriber 💜💜💜💙💙💙
She does so much better with her speech in songs compared to standard talking. It’s incredible
We all have those roller coaster days 🎢 even when the downs are way way down one minute of an awesome up makes everything we do worth it!!! I will probably have that dang Havana song in my head all now 🎶🎶🎶
Yes. We are just hoping it isn’t a pattern/stretch of struggle for her. Last summer was our worst time ever so I’m paranoid that it’s going to happen again since we are nearing summer.
I know! David used to sing it a ton then it kind of fell off and now it’s Braylees current jam 😣
🤞 ❤️
I miss Minnesota so much, born and raised! I love that you guys are spreading Autism awareness, you honestly deserve more subscribers and recognition! Braylee is honestly the cutest, even when shes upset.
We just moved to Minnesota in 2017 but David lived here for about 7 years growing up. We really like it here 🙂
Thank you, that’s so sweet of you to say!!
She is pretty cute but I’m biased 😆
Was fun.. Thanks for letting us hang out with you all 💚🤗
This was the first video i watched and now love you guys. Thanks for sharing your lives.
☺️☺️❤️
I can't imagine how children suffering from these things 100 years ago would have been treated, compare that with the wonderful nourishing environment you provide for your gorgeous, sweet girl.
Such a precious singing voice may she never stop!!!
when she sing yes sir yes sir , it was plain as day how cute !!
😊 she has some songs and lines memorized and pronounced pretty well!
so awesome 💜 she's so amazing 💜
That was tough to watch, really feel for Braylee and you guys, all I wanted to do was cuddle her better, so it must be really hard for you when you don't know how to make it better for her. Her dancing and singing is the best, it was good to see her happy again and the running was cool. Love the flappy jumper 💜❤️💜❤️
It is hard, but when she is done and calm she is just the sweetest happiest kid like nothing even happened.
My daughter screams and hits when shes upset. I'm pretty sure it's a communication problem too. It's hard because you cant help them at all. You guys are doing a good job, it's hard sometimes
Have you ever considered giving her a PECs system or an electronic communication device like a proloquo?
She has used PECS in the past and they weren’t working or practical for her. She does have an speaking device, we are trying to get her to use it more.
Sometimes, the time was not right, so offering PECS at a later point will maybe make it work for her. Also baby sign language might be an option.
She does better with her AAC, we just have to keep working on it. She knows a few signs but only does them prompted
@@TheWeeFamily that is a start, she understands a lot from the few videos, I have watched, so far. Just found your channel a few days ago.
I am on the Spectrum myself and also work with children on the spectrum. Finding an effective way for communication is so helpful to reduce stress. And it is so individual, that it is like reinventing the wheel for each person.
She reminds me of my son he's 5 he understands alot but he wants to talk but can't and bites fingers also loves music it soothes him please stay strong
My daughter is10 & still bites her fingers have you tried anything which can help to stop bitting pls suggest me
🌹 🌹 🌹 💨 👋
Thats me tossing roses onto the stage following that wonderful concert by B and the equally outstanding patience and understanding of her parents🙃
Braylee concerts are always a blast
Oh my goodness shes adorable! It's so hard when they cant tell you what's going on. My daughter can speak but it's only echoing and naming pawpatrol pups. My daughter also loves running to...she lives in a puppy backpack with a leash lol
A lot of Braylee’s speech now is echoing/repeating words we have prompted. It’s still good practice with great progress.
At least she likes puppies. We do whatever we can to keep them safe 🙂
I was diagnosed with Asperger’s aged 4 in 2001 but luckily I managed to fought off the autism spectrum
She played my favourite song
I love the background music during the playground part.
Having difficulty typing because when my son reset my phone I can no longer find the talk-to-txt...but Ill work on it.
Oh no! Hope you find it! That would make things a bit more difficult.
Any way I could help? Is it a new phone? An android? My talk to text used to be at bottom left of keyboard when typing, with latest update it moved to the top of the keyboard like where you attach a photo...now in that top row just above the keyboard it also shows the microphone up there. I press that to open the talk to text feature..
I could walk you through telling me which Android version you have then can tell you where to find it from there...or when do you see your son so he can find it for you?
Hi Braylee!! Thank you for singing " Baa Baa Black sheep " for us .....great job!God bless you and your family 😀🙇🙅🙆👧❤💙💚💛💟❤💙💚💛💖👣👣👣👣👣👣
She is so pretty. I had a madame Alexander doll that looked just like her when i was little. Bless her lil ♡.
Aww that’s so neat!
I look at sweet beautiful Braylee and lives in my heart Abbey and can only just barely touch on what they may be wanting and needing. It blows your mind at how horribly frustrating it is for them when they are at a loss on how to let their needs and wants known. I can't even begin to understand. I just know that I have the honor and privilege to learn from them both. I again thank you for allowing me a glimpse. 💞💞💞💞💞💞
It’s these times when I wish we could know what she’s thinking/feeling.
Isn’t it amazing how these beautiful ladies are touching the hearts and lives of so many people they’ve never met. Gives me the warm n fuzzies. I ❤️❤️them! Yesterday my friend was telling me about how her non-verbal son has just begun to use his words. I teared up when she said yeah he just hasn’t stopped pointing and saying what things are and interrupting. She said we just let him go for it. Thinking of how many years went by and he couldn’t express his wants or needs, so he’s got a lot to say ya know. Oh my gosh it made me a whole range of emotions, but so happy. As parents we just have to keep on trying to find the right keys to unlock the doors to find what works best with our kids. I love how patient and supportive Stacy & David are with B. They always inspire me.
It's so hard when you don't know what's upsetting them. Abby is that same when she is really upset, you can't comfort her, any form of interaction just makes her worse. It sucks when you have just sit and watch and wait till they calm down. Glad the rest of the day was happy 💖
Yes! Sometimes people don’t understand and it might look to someone from the outside that we are ignoring her but we don’t talk or interact because it escalates the situation and her mood/behaviors
My daughter has just recently started to use her chewy necklace at 6 after trying for 2 yrs. She gets like that too when she's very tired or something is bothering her. She'll scream,run around, thrash,hit or push,cry. She loves music so I can sometimes calm her down with playing music n trying to get her to dance/sing with me. I heard Brayle singing "ba ba black sheep". So cute.
Her nonverbal singing is sooooooo cute!
As she gets better with her words and trying to talk, the songs have gotten more clear. It’s awesome!
Those indoor hanging swings for B would be great. You guys are awesome. So patient and kind. She is lucky to have you both on her team. 😘
We do have some, it’s just a pretty small space and we don’t show it often 🙂
I have worked with children with autism spectrum disorder. Sometimes I had to hold the children down so that they didn't hurt themselves or other children. It took a few minutes. Then the children let go. I think you do a good job with music.
I'm autistic and I used to bite my knuckles or the top of my hand when I was mad or sometimes excited, like I'd instinctively just go chomp whenever experiencing a strong emotion. Took some time to break that habit.
She is a great singer
Poor baby, awww.... Best parents.
Shes adorable. Ive worked with autistic people for 18 yrs and i have a degree in mental health. But autism will always be fascinating to me
Braylee girl you grown up in 8mths kiddo and I'm so sorry you can't tell mom and dad what's going on that broke my 💔 to see that happy your feeling better stay Blessed 🖤🌹🖤
She is beautiful!
I can’t even describe how much love I have for this family already!!💜😊❤️❤️
You are so sweet! 😊
My son is very similar to your little girl, he gets like that when he’s is pain and we’re starting to figure this out as we go!!
My boy hits head especially when he has head aches and teeth pain!!
I think that’s the best we can do at times is do figure it out as we go!
Love the wall hanger and it's message that you have in your dining room. Great videos.
We thought it was pretty accurate, it works for most families
I sing and hum under my breath much of the time. I have anxiety and for me it's a form of self soothing. Others overhearing me often comment that they also find my singing and humming to be calming and soothing.
We think it does the same for her, she tends to hum as a calming tool or if the environment is loud. But she also just loves singing at all times 😄
@@TheWeeFamily Me too. I love her sweet little voice too.
Your guys daughter is so adorable love the singing and finger stacking.
😃
I just found you guys on here. Braylee is adorable! I loved the part where she was singing. I have a 3 year old with non verbal autism, who also likes music.
Thank you! It’s amazing how drawn to music they can be and it has done wonders for our girl. I think that if she didn’t sing, she may not be where she is with speech. It’s really encouraged and helped her
What a sweet heart!!! Mom & Dad keep being you!!! It's obvious there is Soo Much Love in your family🙏👪!!! God Bless💙🙏😇
❤️❤️😊
She is so cute! Made me cry that she could not get what she wants. She sings so cutely!! So nice to see her happy! I have no children in the spectrum but found you from the Moss family. You do so good with her! She had so much fun walking and running outside so nice to see.
Thank you!!! She is generally such a happy kiddo. ❤️❤️
I am on the autism spectrum myself and have some trouble with communication especially when people ask me to elaborate on questions.
Just the fact that she's trying her best to sing and dance is awesome. Keep on loving her. She's strong and adorable
She definitely puts in a lot of effort and is willing to try to do things and I think that will get her far. ❤️
I love her little singing. She's so sweet.
Maybe a future gymnast. She's so artistic: dance, sing, run, and I love the way she climbed the stairs. Her body talk a lot. Maybe gymnastic class or dance class can be really beneficial for her. Does she plays an instrument?
We have tried dance and she didn’t enjoy it. She does music therapy and we have many instruments at home for her to play as she wants 😊
She is so cute! My son is also ASD. Based on my experience, She seems to seek for regulation because of a ‘problem’. It seems that she is annoyed by the folded mat ( not in place as it is suppose to be). It looks like she want to fix it but does not know how, and does not know how to communicate that. Then music redirected the focus of the problem and alleviated her frustration. She loves music , like my son! Music is always a great therapy! She is definitely singing baa baa black sheep! I see a talent there! All the best! Beautiful family!
She has a nice singing voice & I hear potential of her being able to speak in time! She is so adorable just love her!
🙂 this is a bit of an older video and she has started verbalizing more words!
I have seen & proud of her!
I know how an aggressive day can be. I've had one a few days ago. It starts with finding out I forgot my wallet when I got to work, but it wasn't time to clock in yet. I asked human resources to go back home to get my wallet. They said okay. I drove home, got my wallet, and came back, was only 16 minutes late. Still, my mood was rush aggressive because we had so many tourists for an air show shopping in our grocery store. Like I said, Fredericksburg, Texas has very limited shopping. I was rushing all over the entire store trying to do customer carry outs simultaneously trying to keep up with carts. I accidentally rushed out in front of a lady and apologized, but she was very dramatic and snotty about it. I later called my mom and we talked about my day. " You were just having a bad day," she said, " "and that the usual Fredericksburg attitude." My mom said a lady she cleans for says that a lot residents complained that a lot of tourism is getting in the way of the quality of our lives and needs to slow down. In a small city with very large crowds of tourists I tend to be very agoraphobic.
I can understand that would be tough. I know when I run late to work sometimes it will just throw the whole day off. At least it was just for a day and not continuing!
When my severely autistic son gets like this he needs silence and stimming objects like pen lids etc He wants to be left alone until he feels better and comes to interact with me in his own time. He’s taking Risperidone now and it happens a lot less (not at all so far) which is good because he was hurting himself dreadfully when he had a big meltdown 😢
We have found that silence, dark, and leaving her alone also helps most because she doesn’t get the extra stimulus that we may cause, even when we mean well. I’m glad that it’s happening less for him (and you)! It’s gotten much better here too. 🙂
The fingers biting is probably either communication-related or sensory-related. It may also be from boredom, feeling unwell, or a disruption in routine.
The shoulder dance moves are inherited lol I love that girl ❤️❤️
We are trying to expand her dance move library 😂
her singing is adorable
Your excellent parents and Braylee is so precious
❤️❤️
She’s beautiful
You’re both great parents 🥰
Omygahh could this be any more cute? I THINK NOT❤ 1st video I ever watched Braylee was walking on a shadow cast from the fence where she was loving on horses &I seen her on 1, too ! She's Amazing
She LOVES horses! Hopefully she gets to do riding again this summer/fall.
I have High Functioning Autism and I have BPD and IED and ADHD and OCD. It's really hard I can empathize with her.
Have you asked her to show you what's wrong? I think it's in her bedroom. I know you've probably done this but it helped with my Grandson. He was non verbal until 4 1/2 years old. He uses sign and oral language.
Oh my heart that singing!!! Meltdowns must be ap hard to cope with and although there are not many ways to calm her down it still helps to have amazing parents to just be there when she is having one. Your love is so precious !! And ps.. I'm #team farm all the way yall need all the things, horses, ponies, little goats , and even maybe a few chickens lol.
I love Braylee’s singing
My 3 year old toddler got diagnosed with autism too.His mind boggling to us because he can say at least 100 words which le learned from flash cards and can stitch words when singing but for some reason his not using it to communicate like what he needs.He would say daddy or mommy when he sees our pics but wont call us mommy/daddy.I keep bringing him to the park because he likes to run and i have to run with him because he has no sense of direction.He started preschool under IEP this January but because of covid its all online class.We are also hoping he can start his ABA in home theraphy soon.His a sweet boy and likes to hug and doesnt have tantrums for now.Man Im scared for his future but still optimistic
The power of song is strong 💪 🎶
Agreed! Music does wonders!
It could be growing pains my brother used to have them real bad but with her being non verbal we can only guess.
Hey my love since I have aspergers and bipolar social disorder with full language I don't suffer with melt downs unless I'm in PMS flare up or unless my mental illness or health disorders is acting up and that's why my situation's is more independent
Adorable little girl looks the image of her mum.
Thank you 😃
She's gorgeous! I'm in love with her ❤️
Have you guys tried PECS? A picture exchange communication system? This is a great way to grasp an understanding of wants and needs. In fact I'd use visuals all over the home!
Hope this helps!
We have tried PECS when she was much younger. She has an AAC but is still learning it and needs promoted to use it. Luckily since this video is a bit older she’s grown a lot with verbal communication but still struggles identifying what she wants or needs. We are getting there!
Her voice is so soothing ❤️
A very moving insight into her life.
Ba ba black sheep have you any wool......twinkle twinkle little star........Beautiful!! My son also sings like you Princess!
That’s great! We love singing!
Exactly the same with my daughter.
She is a sweet girl. Has she been checked too see if she is tongue tied? She sounds like she is trying too speak, but then gets frustrated. 💕
She’s not tongue tied, but has dyspraxia (motor coordination disorder) and a mixed expressive and receptive language disorder so speech is more complicated for her but she’s making great improvements since this video!
Whenever I take my daughter outside that's all she does is run around,yell (happily). Until she was about 5/5.5 we had to hold her hand everywhere I went outside of my house. She would run)elope constantly.Now she'll walk behind it next to me to go to the car. It's so awesome.
That’s such a huge step and makes things so much easier to manage in our pic and for monitoring/maintaining safety
I use to work autistic kids, and music, a trampoline, and skating was their favorite thing to do. They really love outside. Try a trampoline, and music, and watch out it helps.
We have an indoor trampoline, outdoor one and a music room with keyboard, guitar and drum set. 🙂
You guys are on it. She's such a pretty lil girl. Mom and Dad, you got it under control.,,hats off to you for having patience and,understanding. ❤
We try to accommodate for her. The aggression and meltdowns have really minimalists since we found our groove and have been able to beat keep her regulated ❤️
My daughter does this a lot I’m always dealing with this because my daughter can’t talk. Sometimes baths help sooth it or holding her tight but that can lead to her hurting me. Rub downs. I give hope rubs on her legs she likes that. A hiding spot works with padding I do pillows in a area with a padded Matt. Drives calm her down too. She seemed aliitle upset that her lips a cracked and dry. Lip balm helps organic.
So adorable! The sad thing is that she doesn’t know how to form actual words. But that’s alright, I was the same way until I turned 5 or 6.