Hulk is more interesting then Wolverine (also can kill Wolverine), it can still be re-made, but if Marvel makes another movie, then i don't have much hope. They made HULK like an orger or troll. I don't think people want to see that, they want the real badass Hulk. Its also tricky to bring that in screen.
@@jdbb3gotskills It's almost like woke Disney sees The Hulk like a symbol of toxic masculinity and decided to make a statement by clowning and nerfing him....
@@mrjayz94 Banner and Stark worked on the hulk buster. If anyone knows the hulk its Banner, which is why the hulkbuster in the MCU won. The comic portrayal of Stark is a hot mess. He's weak and doesn't live up to his full potential unlike his MCU portrayal, a genius playboy who actually uses his smarts to adapt and learn from his mistakes. I am in no way saying that Hulk should be weak, but its pretty obvious why he lost when Tony had advanced technology by then and actually worked with the alter ego of Hulk to defeat the Hulk.
@@mrjayz94 If the hulkbuster didn't win against Hulk after being designed by Banner and Stark then that would just be marvel ruining the genius Tony AND Banner are. I feel like sometimes people forget that Banner is a genius too and just think hes the big green rage monster.
@@watermelonlyte Stark losing to Hulk wouldn’t downplay his genius; it would be enough genius from Stark to even be able to fight the Hulk. The movies originate from the source material; Hulk beats Iron Man in the comics EVERY TIME. Stark is a hot mess in both the MCU and comics and a super-genius in both. Banner is also a genius, yes. But that doesn’t change anything, Hulk is just THAT powerful. Since 2008, Tony has tried 8 hulkbusters (including a CELESTIAL hulkbuster) and Hulk trashed EVERY SINGLE ONE.
They just side lining him until they get the full rights back from Universal studios. If they make him look too good they’ll never get full rights over him.
😂 True, hopefully they will do it like the comics and say he had a wife on Sakaar. If so then his baby momma could be Caiera, who was also a fighter in the Grandmasters games.
I went to see endgame with my pops and sister the night it came out and I remember my dad said he was disappointed they didn’t give hulk and thanos a rematch.
I have never cringed as hard at anything in my life, as I did when Hulk dabbed in End Game. I hated dabbing before seeing hulk do it and they go an do this. I knew that disney were emasculating our heroes from here on out. It was a gut punch in the stomach.
Facts. There were moments where the Hulk was feared but you're right they sacrificed him way too much to the point he was a joke. Super Heroes stories aren't meant to be told in movies. They ruin everything trying to cram 50-60 years of hero's history into 3 movies. They're meant to be told in episodic form that way you're not merging a bunch of storylines and ruining things for the true fans who you need to keep happy.
I don’t know if it’s me but the hulk in the first avengers film looked really real and detailed almost like it wasn’t cgi. from then on it was just not good.
I remember the russos saying hulk's arm was permanently damaged, and when someone mentioned hulks healing factor, they said their hulk doesn't have it or something
@@The-Secret-Door you could also say that another big reason is the legal rights to the character yet they have a deal with Universal to use him in the team up projects so there’s really no reason they had to downgrade the Hulk other than to be petty
Years ago, 2 quotes used across comics, games, tv etc were "Hulk is the strongest one there is" and "The longer Hulk fights, madder Hulk gets! The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets!" A really good place to use that is after Thanos beats Hulk, have Thanos in the final battle fight everyone (like in Endgame), then Hulk be the one to beat him - after getting mad for so long during the current fight (like all the other foes present first).
Especially with him merging back into one and having his scientist intellect with his hulk physique. They could've had him get Thanos in a lock and comment on how he's clearly much less experienced than the one he was training for or something to show that he's been focusing on becoming a better hero to not lose to him a third time instead of whatever he was doing.
Why is this even a video? Disney Smashed The Hulk and Mark allowed it. Disney let Thanos beat Hulk into another personality type to where he started believing that toxic masculinity is real, case in point. When he saw his previous self during the Averagers 2012 fight when collecting the stones and got embarrassed... The fuck is you embarrassed about Hulk? That's you...what now toxic masculinity is real 😡 thanks Disney But it didn't stop there. This man was so defeated by the end that he allowed a woman discredit his experience as the Hulk, because apparently getting cat called was so much harder then being hunted by the goverement and military, by the end of things he was a alcoholic who regularly built his bar up and taught fucking Yoga off a cliff side... They ruined Hulk
He got embarrassed because he was banner in mind by that point, and banner has pretty much always been embarrassed by the behavior of the hulk🤦♀️ Even then though, there's plenty of pure hulk variants from the comics that would've been embarrassed seeing that. Hulks are typically barbarians sure, but early mcu hulk was barely even aware enough to tell friend from foe.
The Hulk 2003, and The Incredible Hulk 2008 were both fantastic films imo, I've been confused for over a decade on why they haven't made another stand alone movie.
Yeah I 100% agree, and it's mostly because Marvel didn't have full control of The Hulk. They didn't wasn't to have to share with Universal and vice versa.
Eric Bana as Hulk or Edward Norton….. and have it like Hulk would grow to such a large size as an angry and unstoppable monster….. yet a detailed enough storyline where, Bruce Banner has some very deep and personal layers to him
@@markmagician2471agreed. Best on screen showing of the hulk. Not just action but a fully realized character. Incredible Hulk is like a sequel to it too
@@DarkWatcher-r2t Definitely like an alternative past Hulk which could rival The Juggernaut or other far superior unstoppable characters, my personal favourite of choice is World War Hulk, says it right in the name, World War, War with many different worlds
I've always said, Hulk's best appearance was in Avengers 1. He went downhill after that. 2008 Hulk was cool as a start, but he was kinda weak. While he wasn't terrible in Avengers 2, he still wasn't handled quite right. I had an issue with that Hulk vs Hulk buster fight too. Why is Iron Man able to go head up against Thor and Hulk? But then loses to Cap and Bucky. And outside of that fight, what meaningful moment did he have? I also didn't love that they tried to pair Banner with Natasha either outta the blue only to not follow through with it. Almost like they knew they weren't gonna really make them a thing. Then it felt even worse when they finally reunited only to just ignore the whole thing and not acknowledge it. I was happy to finally see him again in Ragnarok with Thor no less. I still remember seeing the first trailer. It seemed really lighthearted in tone, which I wasn't a huge fane of, but seeing Hulk with a fresh haircut about to go up against Surtur was mind blowing. If you remember, they ended the trailer with that epic shot of Hulk jumping up at Surtur about to clash with him. Plus Thor and Hulk were gonna get a rematch so I thought we'd be in for a real good time when it came to Hulk's stuff at least. Unfortunately, I was heavily disappointed. The fight with Thor was terribly underwhelming, and there wasn't even a fight at all with Surtur. The tone of the movie was too silly, and Hulk and Thor were turned into jokes. Both of their storylines from the comics were terribly adapted. The Planet Hulk storyline and the Ragnarok storyline. People really liked it though. I can see how they would like it if it was any other movie because it had some funny parts, but as a Thor and Hulk movie? No, it wasn't that good. Ironically people DIDN'T like Thor Love and Thunder for the same exact reasons that they DID like Ragnarok. Never understood why fans didn't expect that movie to be just as silly, but thats a different convo for another day. Getting back to Hulk though, when Avengers Infinity War came out is when Hulk's character was completely destroyed. And he hasn't come back from that since. He was in it for about 30 seconds getting his ass whooped by Thanos and then didn't come out for the rest of the movie. I don't mind Hulk losing that fight but they could have at least made it a good fight. And I don't care what the Directors said they were trying to convey about why Hulk wasn't coming out. In the actual final product, what was shown was Hulk being scared to come out after Thanos destroyed him. Nothing in the movie hinted at the reason Hulk not coming out being because he was mad at Bruce only using him to fight. Which doesn't even make sense for Hulk even if that is what they were going for. And once again, why was Iron Man of all people able to go head up against Thanos and be the only one to make Thanos bleed? You telling me he's stronger than Hulk? He's stronger than Thor who also literally just got a power boost in his own movie? And what makes it even more disrespectful to me is how instead of bringing Hulk back out, they put him in another Iron Man suit, the Hulk buster suit, to fight against Thanos and his army at the end of the movie. Even though they showed Hulk fighting in Wakanda in the trailer (I still hate that trailer btw for doing that). As much as I love Iron Man, I gotta be honest, they gave him waaayyyy too much attention and respect than he should've got. It was to the point where many of Hulk/Banner's accomplishments were overshadowed by Iron Man, which I'll get to later. Avengers Endgame was arguably the most disrespectful when it comes to Hulk. If not the most then its definitely a toss up between Infinity War and Endgame. They tried but then fumbled heavily with Hulk's character. First he comes outta the blue as the Smart Hulk, then to make matters even worse, he didn't get not one fight scene in the movie let alone the one thing he shoulda got above everyone else. Which was a rematch against Thanos. Thor fought him about 3 or 4 times, Iron Man fought him like twice, and Cap fought him like 2 or 3 times. Even Cap got a solo fight and did a better job against Thanos and he only had the powers Thor had before he had a boost, yet Thanos destroyed Thor. And getting back to what I said about Iron Man overshadowing Hulk, the snap Hulk does was one of those moments. It was done bad. Now granted, the fact that Hulk was able to snap half the universe back to life and survive is kind of a big deal as you have to be extremely powerful to do that, but it was still overshadowed by Iron Man's snap which was cooler and more memorable to fans. Plus Hulk struggled way more to do the snap whereas Iron Man, who really shouldn't have been able to do the snap at all, didn't struggle one bit and was able to walk away for a bit before he died peacefully. He really coulda been saved but we all know it was the end of RDJ's contract so they decided to kill him off for good. That wasn't the only time that Iron Man did something to overshadow Hulk/Bruce though. He overshadowed him when he figured out time travel, even though Hulk casually just created immortality on accident, but we'll skip over that bit. He was also overshadowed when it comes to the Hulkbuster suit. Most people forget, but Banner helped create the Hulkbuster suit with Tony. He also helped make Vision and Ultron, but all of that credit usually goes to Iron Man for the most part. And the last lil bit of continued disrespect for the character was in She-Hulk. That series really doesn't need anymore acknowledgment or attention, but it must be mentioned that unsurprisingly, Hulk wasn't done well in that show either. She-Hulk gets her healing factor but Hulk doesn't? Even though she got her powers from him? It was already bad enough that the Russo's didn't give Hulk his healing factor and his arm was ruined, even though it was gamma radiation emitted from the snap, but he has to get his arm healed by his weaker cousin who literally has the same exact abilities as him? Then he goes off to Sakaar randomly and comes back with a horribly adapted version of his son. The treatment of Hulk is beyond disrespectful at this point. The biggest stain to me of the mcu is that Hulk will always be remembered as a wasted character. As big of an era as the mcu was for years, I never got to see Hulk at his best with all the other main characters at their best. He never quite had THE moment that was huge for Hulk fans to me. And now we probably won't see another epic time with Hulk until they reboot him (or if he has a fight with Wolverine in the next Deadpool movie, but honestly part of me still thinks they're gonna shit on the character).
@AttentionHorror_ same. It's so much they can do with this character that they haven't done. He really doesn't get the justice that he deserves. He's one of marvels big 3 and he deserves better. Hopefully we get a game or some animated movies or something soon. That would make things better, assuming they're actually good that is.
The thing that bothers me is that Hulk and Thor have been equals in powers for decades and sometimes Thor has been more powerful most of the time and Hulk as well
@@Octopusique Yes Edward Norton Was the very best 👌 Hulk . Marvel has mess this up . The more powerful he gets when mad . The Hulk not weak in comic books ,so Marvel mess this up big time. The Hulk is my favorite super hero, and Sub Mariner , and Spiderman. Amen
@@DallasSports-vk6wt The actual problem is ruffalo doesn't know how say no "hey let's make hulk hula hoop dance" ruffalo would just say yes to keep his job
I just had a thought…. Couldn’t Bruce ask scarlet witch to use mind control powers to make hulk come out in infinity war? They were both in Wakanda at the same time sooooo…
maybe that’s what happened in the actual version that had Hulk in it. I mean the one that is shown in the thumbnail for the trailer ofc. But since Wanda, Vision, M’baku, Thor, Groot, and Rocket aren’t shown in that thumbnail despite being main prominent people in the Wakanda fight, they were probably elsewhere originally, maybe in a team with those 6 alone giving us three teams to follow but who knows. I actually just made this up in my head but it sure does sound way cooler than what we got
Professor Hulk in the comics was a unit. This version FULLY optimized Banner's intelligence with Hulk's strength and attitude. When Prof Hulk fought, it was still with all of Savage Hulk's strength and relentlessness, but with the control of Banner. The absolute best comic to read this version is The Incredible Hulk Future Imperfect where you see just how terrifying Hulk's powers with Banner's control is.
His weakness in the whole mcu is the fact he isn't Iron Man or Captain America lol. Those two are clearly the "main" characters. Only other og avenger to have multiple movies is Thor iirc, and I'm pretty sure Hawkeye never even got one 💀
Hulks big shining moment at the end of infinity war where he was going to work it out out with Bruce was cut due to the film not getting enough sense of defeat.
I'm still SO salty that they'd shot that Banner/Hulk scene for IW but instead of finishing effects and using it, they had Bruce's primary arc conclude off screen. And what happened to the Hulk personality from Ragnarok? You can argue the personalities merged but imo theres nothing in the text to suggest that. They effectively killed Hulk in a time skip. So glad someone is talking about this.
Both. Marvel for not standing up for Hulk and allowing Disney to damage him. I remember hearing about 2003 Hulk, Fiege saying that it was very psychological and blamed that for it "flopping". Then he tried to make a more action driven Hulk movie in 2008, which watered it down from previous movie, which is why Norton butted heads with the studio. All downhill from there, Fiege never understood Hulk, IMO.
@@ATR000 yes Marvel should have stood up for Hulk but money talk!! also I think Marvel comics is trying to make up for it by creating newer stronger versions of Hulk!
2008 Hulk looks like the Hulk. Then 2012 Avengers happened and turned him into a green gorilla and later on into just a big green dude with glasses. What a disappointment
Hulk is a hero in the comics. As far as I know from reading Hulk in comics for years, Hulk would never hurt children or innocent people. Hulk also cares about a few friends dearly. Betty Ross, Rick Jones. No matter how angry Hulk is, I don't believe Hulk would hurt children or innocent people in comics.
You know I always thought hulk could beat anyone but ever since they did him dirty it makes me think anyone can beat him and he was my favorite character and u made me love the hulk again by sayin he needed to be more stronger and scarier 😊
Well, him losing to Thor and Thanos is on brand to the comics. Also I think the reason we didn't get a solo War World Hulk movie is it wouldn't have fit into the ongoing series they were telling. Try and picture Hulk going to Sakar, fighting, taking over, all his new friends and family being blown up, going back to Earth ahead of an army of pissed off aliens, wreak New York, then.....Thanos? Wouldn't work
I read comics. Thanos has beaten the breaks off of Hulk multiple times bro. Edit: just read more comments. Good on you for admitting you were misinformed here. I agree with the rest of the video though. This is quality content.
18:48 In the Russo Bros' defence here, I remember reading somewhere that they wanted Hulk's triumphant return here instead of Captain Marvel. But the brass higher up in Marvel overrode that decision and we ended up with that shitty Captain Marvel girlboss scene literally no one wanted. The Russo Brother's actually wanted it to be Hulk who returned finally and smashed his way through Thanos' fleet and then onto the Mad Titan himself! The fact we live in the timeline where we didn't get that scene is so damn heartbreaking to me. Hulk has long been my second favourite superhero for me of all-time, right behind Spider-Man. For many reasons, the Hulk has always meant so much to me. I adored The Incredible Hulk and I loved his appearance in the first Avengers film. Those films epitomise Hulk to me! Age of Ultron was okay but I agree with your assessment his neutering began here with the Hulkbuster fight. Ever since Thanos beat him, what we have now is not the Hulk. I mourn the Jade Giant and what the MCU's done to him. As a lifelong Hulk comics reader, I've seen that Professor Hulk can be written well and still feel like Hulk, but the MCU's version isn't it. All I want is another solid Hulk movie. I hated his treatment in She-Hulk (and Abomination's too!). Give me Planet Hulk and World War Hulk, but the real versions this time! Not that watered down crap we got in Ragnarok or the unrecognisable Skaar that appeared in She-Hulk (that was NOT Skaar!)
@@protag64toons2.0 well, considering the less than optimal state of the MCU currently, I wouldn't even be mad if they had to do some hoops and jumps to make WWH work. If they did it properly, it'd be better than the garbage they've been pumping out of late like The Marvels
Planet Hulk and World War Hulk are two of my favorite comics ever. The dialogue, the storyline, all of it makes the comics for me. I love hulk’s fight with the Illuminati.
I've read that the Russos didn't know what to do with Hulk and really didn't like him that much. Watching Endgame for the first time I was expecting Hulk to get supercharged from the gamma radiation but was very disappointed.
Fear not fellow Hulk fans. Remember....he's *always* angry. They can bring back the true raging Hulkster we all know and love - and they will - probably as others have said, as the Ace in the Hole. Secret Wars looking grim - bad guys taking down all the main heroes easily, Smart Hulks looking around assessing the situation, knows it's now or never and he has to kiss good bye to being behind the one behind the wheel - says, "Alright Big Guy...your turn." *proceeds to transform into the True Hulk to rapturous applause in the cinema*
"That's my secret, I'm always angry" was one of the most impactful lines of The Avengers. Every movie after that its like they completely forgot where Hulk gets his powers from, he's supposed to get stronger the angrier he gets. But instead of making him angry, they just made him sad. He spends the entirety of Age of Ultron being depressed. Then he's melancholic for almost all of Ragnarok, getting a bit of fight back in him towards the end; only to then have it beaten out of him completely in Infinity war. After which he just stays neutered for the rest of the MCU. All they had to do was to replace all the times when he got sad and turn it into anger and he would still be The Hulk. Nowadays he's barely a mascot.
0:32 I would of loved seeing the 2008 Incredible Savage Hulk in the Avengers. Not the Jolly Green Wimp that gets talked down too and Disrespected by She-Hulk. We all know Hulk and Banner did far more than her.
I'm of the unpopular opinion the 2003 hulk was my favorite. The passive storyline on childhood trauma being the monster was genuinely an interesting idea. Plus that film scared me as a kid
I couldnt agree more, Tony should have been terrified when he realises he has to face the Hulk by himself, then maybe he cracks a joke before launching a 'hulkbuster jericho missile' at the hulk which causes him to come to his senses and revert to banner. Hulk should never be knocked out!
I have this crazy theory that they nerfed and relegated Hulk more and more because Hulk inherently represents masculinity: both toxic masculinity (anger, solving everything with violence, in the comics he even appears possesive of some people and of the "body" Banner and him share) and also positive masculinity (strenght and toughness used to help and save others, to "man up" enduring/channeling your trauma and negative emotions towards positive goals, being protective of the weak and innocent like puppies and children). In current year it's obvious that Disney hates all those qualities (both negative and positive), and tries to replace "manly" males by just genderswapping them (She-Hulk is all that's wrong with Hulk but presented as if she was instead better, the forgotten Ironheart substitute to Iron Man, The Marvels and how infamously internet predicted they'd try to make Captain Marvel a lesbian in that last-minute deleted scene...). Hulk being not only manliness but indomitability and rebellion incarnate, it's very opposite to both what Disney wants to represent and what it really represents (greed, hypocresy and doing anything to make more cash while trying to appear in the most socially-acceptable light possible) and the company doesn't want the fandom to self-identify nor with the masculinity of Hulk neither with his thirst for freedom. But it's probably because his solo movie made the least money or something like that.
Honestly, that's probably what it is, seeing the watered-down garbage that the MCU put out. They put every strong or male character down. Hulk, Thor, antman etc.
I might’ve actually been misinformed on that point. Did some more research and read some comics realizing that hulk’s pure strength isn’t enough to really take down Thanos. Not only is Thanos strong, but he’s smarter than Hulk. Which is exactly why Thanos wins so much. I was wrong to say Thanos never wins.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 tho Thanos does avoid the hulk because if hulk gets angry enough he could beat Thanos which is why he always tries to take down the hulk quickly like in Infinity war
616 Thanos (without the gauntlet) and 616 Hulk have never actually had a proper physical fight with an outright winner. Only people who don't actually read comics don't know this. Not only that but 616 Thanos has literally stated that he'd rather avoid having to fight the Hulk. So him getting trounced in 30 seconds was just poor writing
Excellent excellent video and commentary. I completely agree. Don't lose hope. All we need is better writers and a never give up strong will. The Hulk needs to once again to be rebooted until it is done right, with honor and respect. Then and only then The incredible Hulk can live forever!
Also one thing i notice in the MCU, i feel like Hulk size is getting smaller in every new iteration. Or maybe they just so inconsistent from the beginning idk
@@AttentionHorror2.0 you know hulk has always been my favourite superhero since i first saw the incredible hulk as a child, really a shame how they did him
Low subs cause hes a relatively new channel with 3 vids. Give him some time cause channels dont normally just get tons of subs right off the bat unless they're connected to a previous youtuber
You’re right! The Incredible Hulk has the best movie version of the Hulk. It was true to the comic version and, the dark undertones of the movie reminded me a lot of the old tv show.
What's worse is that it's not even Universal's fault really, They only had the distribution rights to Solo Live Action Hulk Movies and all Marvel would have to do is ask them and even if Universal said no that just means Marvel doesn't have to work with them to make a Solo Hulk project. But the real problem was/is Disney as they've always had creative control over the entire MCU and even some stuff beyond like the Disney XD stuff which is why Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Spectacular Spider-Man along with the rest of the Yost-Verse got cancelled because they wanted synergy with the Movies and Live Action Shows but that ultimately failed. We were originally gonna get a Live action Hulk TV show directed by Guillermo del Toro who wanted to delve deep into the lore of the character and make something Truly Epic like he did with HELLBOY 1 and 2. But Kevin Feige(And by extension Disney) rejected it multiple times because he/they wouldn't have any direct control over the narrative and ultimately the show was canned in favor of others like Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D., Jessica Jones, Cloak & Dagger and Marvel Runaways. Marvel could've made a Hulk Trilogy year's ago but the fault was always on Disney because they just never let anyone cook with Hulk unless it's at his expense in favor of their current ways of thinking and we all know how that turned out. Two Shows by Disney that came out surrounding Hulk were Hulk and The Agents of S.M.A.S.H. and of course She Hulk Attorney at Law and both did eruptible Damage to the Hulk I.P. in recent memory. Agents of S.M.A.S.H. was obviously meant to cash in on Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s popularity and it was not very good whatsoever same with She Hulk. Both shows horribly handle the Hulk's character and Lore and don't even attempt to stay true to it at all. Now if you were to ask me which one is worse between the two I honestly couldn't tell you, that's how bad it is. On one hand She Hulk is just an Abomination that never ceases to enrage and belittle it's audience all while trying to be a "Funny Sitcom". And on the Other Hand Agent's of Smash has 52 episodes so it's way longer but just as painful to sit through. It's basically a bad Fantastic Four Sitcom disguised as a Hulk show and it pretty much does about what you'd expect from Modern Disney with how they've handled other television properties. So as a Hulk Fan I feel we are LONG overdue for a reboot or just something good to get this bad taste out our mouths. Hulk deserves better and so does the rest of Marvel Entertainment as a whole. My only hope right now is that X-Men 97 will pave the way for us to maybe hopefully get a revival of the 90s Hulk animated series and get some much needed proper adaptation of his comic stories. That and hopefully him showing up in Deadpool & Wolverine and maybe undoing the Whole Smart Hulk nonsense, perhaps even retconning everything from before Thor Ragnarok so we get a second chance to see a proper Live Action Hulk Trilogy or TV Show done right this time. But one can only hope.
Hulk wasn’t knocked out by Tony. When Wanda’s spell wore off Hulk realized the destruction at his hand and felt a sense of remorse. You can see it in his eyes when he sees the fear all around him. He gave up just moments before Tony landed that final blow. Had Hulk stayed enraged, Tony and that entire city would have been rubble.
They did that on purpose to the Hulk because Mark Ruffalo almost spoiled Thor Ragnarok. I kid you not, they ruined a perfectly good character out of spiteful revenge.
After Infinity War, I noped out of the MCU. My wife had to force me to watch End Game with her. I no longer support the MCU. Then to make She-Hulk into a feminist just pissed on the ashes of the Fxcks I had left.
Whats even worst is Profressor Hulk which they r trying to potray is suppose to be one of the smartest version of hulk that is st least as smart as the leader (not fully sure) and you see him being dumb in the movies and in she-hulk. Also they ignore the fact how resistant to mind control of hulk is. In ultron 2. Too much gamma and rage.
Ever think that maybe the reason they don't want a Hulk movie is because they already tried making two and they bombed. Think maybe the reason they decided to go a different route was because the old formula obviously wasn't working? I may be coming off a little more condescending than I mean to here, but I'm getting the picture that you're kinda missing the forest from the tress here. Occam's Razor; The simplest solution is often the truth.
Also the Russo brothers have a fetish for captain America they didn’t give a fuck about any other character development but cap and his story they should never direct a superhero based film again
That’s not even true. They wrapped up Ironman, the Shield assassins, Falcon, War Machine, Black Panther, Thor, the Guardians, Fury, Doc Strange in 2 movies. The only one they truly nerfed was Hulk and that’s the only criticism I have. The Russos did the majority of the characters better than any other director in the MCU so far. I’d say James Gunn but he only gets the Guardians.
You have spoken every single fucking thing what was in my heart. I loved hulk’s character. I was waiting for the moment in endgame, that now everyone can truly know hulk’s potential but they just sidelined the hulk. I wish to happen world war hulk.
Tony Stark has defeated Hulk in the comics canonically at least twice. While it's true that Hulk has beat Iron man more than lost, Saying that Hulk was neutered in the Second Avengers movies is unbelievable levels of glaze (Why does Iron man ever stand a chance in this fight? Iron man is one of the only characters in the verse with double digit chances of winning). Hulk only lost that fight after he had the emotional realization of what he'd done, and was in a psychologically vulnerable state. Iron man HAD to sucker punch him, or he'd have re-enraged in response to the soldiers aiming guns at him. That may have been Hulk's loss, but it was barely a loss. Hulk ate a family meal of punches, an elevator, a whole building, atomizing levels of repulsor blasts, and definitely lethal amounts of electricity. (and still managed to destroy veronica's support ship). None of that did him in. He was beat by his own heart. Arguing the down fall of Hulk starts with Avengers 1 & 2, sounds more like you're mad Hulk doesn't win every match up he's in, and not like you're fairly assessing what's wrong with the character writing. To be clear, post infinity-war, Hulk is trash. I agree they did him dirty as fuck in EG, and Phase 4/5.
Everyone has beaten everyone, so you can't bring down Hulk by saying, "Iron Man beat him twice tho ☝️🤓" Hulk has never actually lost a fight with the Hulkbuster at all so that's why Tony beating him by himself made no sense and after that he gets knocked out by a punch which is incredibly hard to watch for comic fans 😅
@@Kumo0toko 1. Never said anything remotely close to "everyone's beaten the hulk". 2. In comic cannon, the suit was sabotaged by an outside party, and was on track to win before that. 3. The movie reflects accurately the reality that the suit can and was going to beat the Hulk. 4. Tony barely won. When Hulk was emotionally vulnerable. If his power grows with his rage, it's rational that the opposite was true. Like I said in my comment. The hulk ultimately beat himself. I didn't gas up Tony, I didn't down play Hulk. It is whiney and stupid to argue that Hulk's loss in AoU is evidence of his down fall. He falls off in infinity war, and not a moment sooner.
Norton's 2008 Hulk was the best, he looked and behaved exactly the way the Hulk should. In the last 2 Avengers movie, disney destroyed the Hulk and turned him into a snowpuff.
The Hulk's arc represents the process of therapy and healing. Not rejecting the "bad" traits of you but integrating them into yourself. Repression leads to toxicity. He's no longer David, and he's no longer the Hulk. He is as he is. Thor also experienced trauma, as did Starlord (love that name). Some of us eat and drink our feelings after trauma. We do all of these things when we're hurt, when simply all we have to do is talk. And for decades, men have been conditioned to suppress. I expect this comment to get backlash. And it would only serve to reinforce my point. Pushbacks welcome though.
I like that the ending for his character is the dorky hulk. And Bruce is a dork who’s afraid of losing his temper. And now he doesn’t have to worry about that. But we missed a very important and potentially entertaining story beat in those 5 years. Him learning to work with hulk. We skipped to the end and people aren’t satisfied. His story is he went from terrifying time bomb to finally working around it. But they skipped like a third of it. All we got is a deleted scene where Bruce and hulk argue and the pacing and dialogue feels off so no wonder they cut it. I truly believe people wouldn’t have a problem with prof. hulk if we got to see all of how hard it was to reach that point. I partially blame universal too for just not doing anything with hulk and causing the MCU to just neglect hulk and having to use him as a side character
That’s a fair take. We probably would enjoy professor hulk more if there was an actual payoff.. Like you said, they skipped so much in between, and now they’re paying the consequences.
Yeah, the treatment of the Hulk is the biggest letdown of those final great Marvel epics. I heard James Gunn say he would have liked to make a Hulk movie. That probably won't happen now - a shame!
The thing about Universal is not entirely true. Marvel currently has the Hulk's film rights & has had them since 2006. What Universal has is the rights of first refusal in terms of distribution. If Marvel wanted to make a Hulk film, they would have to ask Universal first to distribute it. If they refuse, Marvel can just go through Disney instead.
If Hulk does not show up in Captain America Brave New World to take on Red Hulk, then I do not know what to say. Honestly, you said some sound points and it is partly due to the HULK film rights that messed up the Hulk's character in the MCU.
Hulk shouldn’t have lost that fight with thanos the anger he gets the stronger he gets and in Thor 3 he had training so he should of been so OP thanos had to use the stones to win as a hulk fan I really hate what they did to him.
16:26 “The appeal if Hulk is that he is split between two people.” I get what you’re implying but that’s not what’s happening. It’s not a split between two people, it’s the same person who is being split. The appeal of Hulk is one person with multiple personalities, hence why there’s so many versions of Hulk. Savage Hulk is just one aspect of the same person who can produce the other Hulks.
I wonder how Ang Lee's / Eric Bana's Hulk would have faired in the MCU; I think the complexity of that iteration was largely lost on 2003 audiences but would fit really well in the MCU. He's better than Ruffalo's version. They gave a glimpse of a great Hulk in The Avengers but it's been completely forgotten since as he's basically a bit part in the series. They really need to go back to the drawing board with him, as She-Hulk has probably had more focus that actual Hulk got since 2012, and that is just depressing. Anyway, your video is great man. Looking forward to seeing more. New subscriber achieved.
Universal still owns the film rights. I think Disney/Marvel is devaluing the brand with all of the comic relief, major character development happening off screen , and the shitty cameos
Hulk in avengers is treated the same way as the flash in justice league
That actually might be the best comparison I’ve heard. I’d have to go through and watch them back to back, but it sounds right..
It's because of bad casting and bad writing.
which one?
I wouldn't say that, the Flash is at least useful. Unless you mean Joss Whedon's version.
@@quantumvideoscz2052 I'm pretty sure it was Joss whedon's Flash
We all miss Savage Hulk. Not a jolly green joke.
Exactly, hopefully "The Incredible Hulk" will make a return some day.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 Maybe in the secret wars film.
There’s a 98% chance of him being in Deadpool & Wolverine, there’s leaks and scripts that are basically confirmed he’s in it
@@weedherm6046 Yeah, they probably will do that then.
@@mikediaz2359 That would be cool
Disney took out the Hulk, made Thor a joke, and Captain America old. I can't think of a better villain.
Hulk is more interesting then Wolverine (also can kill Wolverine), it can still be re-made, but if Marvel makes another movie, then i don't have much hope.
They made HULK like an orger or troll. I don't think people want to see that, they want the real badass Hulk. Its also tricky to bring that in screen.
True Disney is the true villain.
@@jdbb3gotskills It's almost like woke Disney sees The Hulk like a symbol of toxic masculinity and decided to make a statement by clowning and nerfing him....
@@bepatience80 hulk will return in secret wars and hold up a mountain.
@@JoseTorres-db6ym thats a reach but ig
Tony has made multiple suits in the comics to take down Hulk and he fails. EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Cuz he’s fucking hulk I don’t know why marvel disrespected my boy like that
@@crazybros543 It truly boggles the mind. Also there’s no other comments pointing this out on the fight video…
@@mrjayz94 Banner and Stark worked on the hulk buster. If anyone knows the hulk its Banner, which is why the hulkbuster in the MCU won. The comic portrayal of Stark is a hot mess. He's weak and doesn't live up to his full potential unlike his MCU portrayal, a genius playboy who actually uses his smarts to adapt and learn from his mistakes.
I am in no way saying that Hulk should be weak, but its pretty obvious why he lost when Tony had advanced technology by then and actually worked with the alter ego of Hulk to defeat the Hulk.
@@mrjayz94 If the hulkbuster didn't win against Hulk after being designed by Banner and Stark then that would just be marvel ruining the genius Tony AND Banner are. I feel like sometimes people forget that Banner is a genius too and just think hes the big green rage monster.
@@watermelonlyte Stark losing to Hulk wouldn’t downplay his genius; it would be enough genius from Stark to even be able to fight the Hulk. The movies originate from the source material; Hulk beats Iron Man in the comics EVERY TIME. Stark is a hot mess in both the MCU and comics and a super-genius in both. Banner is also a genius, yes. But that doesn’t change anything, Hulk is just THAT powerful. Since 2008, Tony has tried 8 hulkbusters (including a CELESTIAL hulkbuster) and Hulk trashed EVERY SINGLE ONE.
Look at what they've done to my boy. 2003 hulk and 2008 hulk wouldn't tolerate that disrespect.
That's what I'm saying, it's a sad time to be a Hulk fan.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 It's been a sad time to be a comicbook fan
Neither would 1980's David Banner and Lou Ferrigno Hulk!
@@rm-jl8wy , exactly!
They just side lining him until they get the full rights back from Universal studios. If they make him look too good they’ll never get full rights over him.
who did hulk smash in the mcu, skar didn't come out of nowhere
😂 True, hopefully they will do it like the comics and say he had a wife on Sakaar. If so then his baby momma could be Caiera, who was also a fighter in the Grandmasters games.
I disagree. Hulk is my favorite character. They have destroyed him. Please reboot
This is what pisses me off. Skaar has a great origin in the comics and is a great character. But in the MCU, he's a total joke.
Hulk smashed Gamora....🥒🥝
@@LuxBellator92 Yep, they are trying to make a Hulk sitcom with She Hulk for some reason.
I went to see endgame with my pops and sister the night it came out and I remember my dad said he was disappointed they didn’t give hulk and thanos a rematch.
Exactly, also W pops.
I know exactly how your dad feels because even I was disappointed.
Ed Norton was right about marvel
and what did he say?
He basically did what Ryan Reynolds is doing right now with deadpool
I have never cringed as hard at anything in my life, as I did when Hulk dabbed in End Game. I hated dabbing before seeing hulk do it and they go an do this.
I knew that disney were emasculating our heroes from here on out. It was a gut punch in the stomach.
MCU turned Hulk into Shrek without the accent
Him and Flash share a common villain writers
Spider-Man is right up there with them in the comics ngl, they love NOTHING more than to make his life a fucking hellhole
Facts. There were moments where the Hulk was feared but you're right they sacrificed him way too much to the point he was a joke. Super Heroes stories aren't meant to be told in movies. They ruin everything trying to cram 50-60 years of hero's history into 3 movies. They're meant to be told in episodic form that way you're not merging a bunch of storylines and ruining things for the true fans who you need to keep happy.
They managed to kill the hulk without even killing him off 😂😂
I don’t know if it’s me but the hulk in the first avengers film looked really real and detailed almost like it wasn’t cgi. from then on it was just not good.
He did look really good
They stopped caring. Money trumps quality anymore
I definitely disagree he looked awful.
Just you. He looked great in all the movies.
Ed Norton was the best Bruce manner and if only they gave him what he wanted we probably would still have a badass hulk
"Bruce Manor"? Like Bruce Banner and Wayne manor (I know you spelled it differently) Did you just mix Batman and the Hulk together?😂
As much as I liked Thor Ragnarok, it robbed us of a proper Rangarok, a Planet Hulk and a World War Hulk.
I remember the russos saying hulk's arm was permanently damaged, and when someone mentioned hulks healing factor, they said their hulk doesn't have it or something
Crazy….
Hulk turned into an abomination no pun intended😭
That's honestly a really big plot hole… Bruce Banner should be dead instead then
They really don't seem to be Hulk fans, those Russos. The one downside of them returning to the MCU.
@@The-Secret-Door you could also say that another big reason is the legal rights to the character yet they have a deal with Universal to use him in the team up projects so there’s really no reason they had to downgrade the Hulk other than to be petty
Years ago, 2 quotes used across comics, games, tv etc were "Hulk is the strongest one there is" and "The longer Hulk fights, madder Hulk gets! The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets!" A really good place to use that is after Thanos beats Hulk, have Thanos in the final battle fight everyone (like in Endgame), then Hulk be the one to beat him - after getting mad for so long during the current fight (like all the other foes present first).
That's what we all wanted
Especially with him merging back into one and having his scientist intellect with his hulk physique. They could've had him get Thanos in a lock and comment on how he's clearly much less experienced than the one he was training for or something to show that he's been focusing on becoming a better hero to not lose to him a third time instead of whatever he was doing.
Why is this even a video? Disney Smashed The Hulk and Mark allowed it. Disney let Thanos beat Hulk into another personality type to where he started believing that toxic masculinity is real, case in point.
When he saw his previous self during the Averagers 2012 fight when collecting the stones and got embarrassed... The fuck is you embarrassed about Hulk? That's you...what now toxic masculinity is real 😡 thanks Disney
But it didn't stop there. This man was so defeated by the end that he allowed a woman discredit his experience as the Hulk, because apparently getting cat called was so much harder then being hunted by the goverement and military, by the end of things he was a alcoholic who regularly built his bar up and taught fucking Yoga off a cliff side... They ruined Hulk
Real
He got embarrassed because he was banner in mind by that point, and banner has pretty much always been embarrassed by the behavior of the hulk🤦♀️
Even then though, there's plenty of pure hulk variants from the comics that would've been embarrassed seeing that. Hulks are typically barbarians sure, but early mcu hulk was barely even aware enough to tell friend from foe.
The Hulk 2003, and The Incredible Hulk 2008 were both fantastic films imo, I've been confused for over a decade on why they haven't made another stand alone movie.
Yeah I 100% agree, and it's mostly because Marvel didn't have full control of The Hulk. They didn't wasn't to have to share with Universal and vice versa.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 ah you right
we need a real hulk
Yeah 2003 Hulk
Eric Bana as Hulk or Edward Norton….. and have it like Hulk would grow to such a large size as an angry and unstoppable monster….. yet a detailed enough storyline where, Bruce Banner has some very deep and personal layers to him
@@UncleBuddy1994 Definitely Edward Norton but with Eric Bana Hulk skin and height also transform into Joe Fix-It aka Grey Hulk.
@@markmagician2471agreed. Best on screen showing of the hulk. Not just action but a fully realized character. Incredible Hulk is like a sequel to it too
@@DarkWatcher-r2t Definitely like an alternative past Hulk which could rival The Juggernaut or other far superior unstoppable characters, my personal favourite of choice is World War Hulk, says it right in the name, World War, War with many different worlds
I loved 2003 hulk personally his power and getting stronger as he got more angry was just cool asf!
Amen
I've always said, Hulk's best appearance was in Avengers 1. He went downhill after that. 2008 Hulk was cool as a start, but he was kinda weak. While he wasn't terrible in Avengers 2, he still wasn't handled quite right. I had an issue with that Hulk vs Hulk buster fight too. Why is Iron Man able to go head up against Thor and Hulk? But then loses to Cap and Bucky. And outside of that fight, what meaningful moment did he have? I also didn't love that they tried to pair Banner with Natasha either outta the blue only to not follow through with it. Almost like they knew they weren't gonna really make them a thing. Then it felt even worse when they finally reunited only to just ignore the whole thing and not acknowledge it.
I was happy to finally see him again in Ragnarok with Thor no less. I still remember seeing the first trailer. It seemed really lighthearted in tone, which I wasn't a huge fane of, but seeing Hulk with a fresh haircut about to go up against Surtur was mind blowing. If you remember, they ended the trailer with that epic shot of Hulk jumping up at Surtur about to clash with him. Plus Thor and Hulk were gonna get a rematch so I thought we'd be in for a real good time when it came to Hulk's stuff at least. Unfortunately, I was heavily disappointed. The fight with Thor was terribly underwhelming, and there wasn't even a fight at all with Surtur. The tone of the movie was too silly, and Hulk and Thor were turned into jokes. Both of their storylines from the comics were terribly adapted. The Planet Hulk storyline and the Ragnarok storyline. People really liked it though. I can see how they would like it if it was any other movie because it had some funny parts, but as a Thor and Hulk movie? No, it wasn't that good. Ironically people DIDN'T like Thor Love and Thunder for the same exact reasons that they DID like Ragnarok. Never understood why fans didn't expect that movie to be just as silly, but thats a different convo for another day.
Getting back to Hulk though, when Avengers Infinity War came out is when Hulk's character was completely destroyed. And he hasn't come back from that since. He was in it for about 30 seconds getting his ass whooped by Thanos and then didn't come out for the rest of the movie. I don't mind Hulk losing that fight but they could have at least made it a good fight. And I don't care what the Directors said they were trying to convey about why Hulk wasn't coming out. In the actual final product, what was shown was Hulk being scared to come out after Thanos destroyed him. Nothing in the movie hinted at the reason Hulk not coming out being because he was mad at Bruce only using him to fight. Which doesn't even make sense for Hulk even if that is what they were going for. And once again, why was Iron Man of all people able to go head up against Thanos and be the only one to make Thanos bleed? You telling me he's stronger than Hulk? He's stronger than Thor who also literally just got a power boost in his own movie? And what makes it even more disrespectful to me is how instead of bringing Hulk back out, they put him in another Iron Man suit, the Hulk buster suit, to fight against Thanos and his army at the end of the movie. Even though they showed Hulk fighting in Wakanda in the trailer (I still hate that trailer btw for doing that). As much as I love Iron Man, I gotta be honest, they gave him waaayyyy too much attention and respect than he should've got. It was to the point where many of Hulk/Banner's accomplishments were overshadowed by Iron Man, which I'll get to later.
Avengers Endgame was arguably the most disrespectful when it comes to Hulk. If not the most then its definitely a toss up between Infinity War and Endgame. They tried but then fumbled heavily with Hulk's character. First he comes outta the blue as the Smart Hulk, then to make matters even worse, he didn't get not one fight scene in the movie let alone the one thing he shoulda got above everyone else. Which was a rematch against Thanos. Thor fought him about 3 or 4 times, Iron Man fought him like twice, and Cap fought him like 2 or 3 times. Even Cap got a solo fight and did a better job against Thanos and he only had the powers Thor had before he had a boost, yet Thanos destroyed Thor. And getting back to what I said about Iron Man overshadowing Hulk, the snap Hulk does was one of those moments. It was done bad. Now granted, the fact that Hulk was able to snap half the universe back to life and survive is kind of a big deal as you have to be extremely powerful to do that, but it was still overshadowed by Iron Man's snap which was cooler and more memorable to fans. Plus Hulk struggled way more to do the snap whereas Iron Man, who really shouldn't have been able to do the snap at all, didn't struggle one bit and was able to walk away for a bit before he died peacefully. He really coulda been saved but we all know it was the end of RDJ's contract so they decided to kill him off for good. That wasn't the only time that Iron Man did something to overshadow Hulk/Bruce though. He overshadowed him when he figured out time travel, even though Hulk casually just created immortality on accident, but we'll skip over that bit. He was also overshadowed when it comes to the Hulkbuster suit. Most people forget, but Banner helped create the Hulkbuster suit with Tony. He also helped make Vision and Ultron, but all of that credit usually goes to Iron Man for the most part.
And the last lil bit of continued disrespect for the character was in She-Hulk. That series really doesn't need anymore acknowledgment or attention, but it must be mentioned that unsurprisingly, Hulk wasn't done well in that show either. She-Hulk gets her healing factor but Hulk doesn't? Even though she got her powers from him? It was already bad enough that the Russo's didn't give Hulk his healing factor and his arm was ruined, even though it was gamma radiation emitted from the snap, but he has to get his arm healed by his weaker cousin who literally has the same exact abilities as him? Then he goes off to Sakaar randomly and comes back with a horribly adapted version of his son.
The treatment of Hulk is beyond disrespectful at this point. The biggest stain to me of the mcu is that Hulk will always be remembered as a wasted character. As big of an era as the mcu was for years, I never got to see Hulk at his best with all the other main characters at their best. He never quite had THE moment that was huge for Hulk fans to me. And now we probably won't see another epic time with Hulk until they reboot him (or if he has a fight with Wolverine in the next Deadpool movie, but honestly part of me still thinks they're gonna shit on the character).
I agree with just about everything you said. Couldn’t have said it any better. Glad to see so many people care about this character the way I do.
@AttentionHorror_ same. It's so much they can do with this character that they haven't done. He really doesn't get the justice that he deserves. He's one of marvels big 3 and he deserves better. Hopefully we get a game or some animated movies or something soon. That would make things better, assuming they're actually good that is.
The thing that bothers me is that Hulk and Thor have been equals in powers for decades and sometimes Thor has been more powerful most of the time and Hulk as well
Edward Norton Hulk wasn't overlooked. It was revered. THIS is the HULK we should have had. Not Ruffalo.
I like Norton’s Hulk much better. Ruffalo’s version is a mere clown. It doesn’t matter now, MCU is finished.
@@Octopusique
Yes Edward Norton
Was the very best 👌 Hulk .
Marvel has mess this up .
The more powerful he gets when mad .
The Hulk not weak in comic books ,so Marvel mess this up big time.
The Hulk is my favorite super hero, and Sub Mariner , and Spiderman.
Amen
@@DallasSports-vk6wt The actual problem is ruffalo doesn't know how say no "hey let's make hulk hula hoop dance" ruffalo would just say yes to keep his job
Rufflao is a good cast the writer just needs to do the hulk justice and write him properly
Ruffalo is an incredible actor, any faults are with the writers
I just had a thought…. Couldn’t Bruce ask scarlet witch to use mind control powers to make hulk come out in infinity war? They were both in Wakanda at the same time sooooo…
That would be really interesting
maybe that’s what happened in the actual version that had Hulk in it. I mean the one that is shown in the thumbnail for the trailer ofc. But since Wanda, Vision, M’baku, Thor, Groot, and Rocket aren’t shown in that thumbnail despite being main prominent people in the Wakanda fight, they were probably elsewhere originally, maybe in a team with those 6 alone giving us three teams to follow but who knows. I actually just made this up in my head but it sure does sound way cooler than what we got
Professor Hulk in the comics was a unit.
This version FULLY optimized Banner's intelligence with Hulk's strength and attitude.
When Prof Hulk fought, it was still with all of Savage Hulk's strength and relentlessness, but with the control of Banner.
The absolute best comic to read this version is The Incredible Hulk Future Imperfect where you see just how terrifying Hulk's powers with Banner's control is.
The Hulk's weakness in Disney is that he isn't She-Hulk! 🙄
His weakness in the whole mcu is the fact he isn't Iron Man or Captain America lol. Those two are clearly the "main" characters. Only other og avenger to have multiple movies is Thor iirc, and I'm pretty sure Hawkeye never even got one 💀
Hulks big shining moment at the end of infinity war where he was going to work it out out with Bruce was cut due to the film not getting enough sense of defeat.
It feels like MCU became ashamed of Hulk
Fr
I'm still SO salty that they'd shot that Banner/Hulk scene for IW but instead of finishing effects and using it, they had Bruce's primary arc conclude off screen. And what happened to the Hulk personality from Ragnarok? You can argue the personalities merged but imo theres nothing in the text to suggest that. They effectively killed Hulk in a time skip. So glad someone is talking about this.
So frustrating they went this route
Marvel Nerfed Hulk before our very eyes
I miss Eric bana as the Hulk
Yeah very underrated Hulk.
The Black Widow and Hulk romance deserved better. So shut up.
I agree, they deserved better.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 Yet you said in the video that you hated it.
@@John93965it was mid compared to norton
*The last bullet on Hulk's storyline:*
Skaar's hairline.
😂
it's not Marvel !!! Disney is to blame for destroying the Hulk !!!
Both. Marvel for not standing up for Hulk and allowing Disney to damage him. I remember hearing about 2003 Hulk, Fiege saying that it was very psychological and blamed that for it "flopping". Then he tried to make a more action driven Hulk movie in 2008, which watered it down from previous movie, which is why Norton butted heads with the studio. All downhill from there, Fiege never understood Hulk, IMO.
@@ATR000 yes Marvel should have stood up for Hulk but money talk!! also I think Marvel comics is trying to make up for it by creating newer stronger versions of Hulk!
World War Hulk vs The Sentry on the big screen would have been amazing.
1000%
2008 Hulk looks like the Hulk. Then 2012 Avengers happened and turned him into a green gorilla and later on into just a big green dude with glasses. What a disappointment
Hulk is a hero in the comics. As far as I know from reading Hulk in comics for years, Hulk would never hurt children or innocent people. Hulk also cares about a few friends dearly. Betty Ross, Rick Jones. No matter how angry Hulk is, I don't believe Hulk would hurt children or innocent people in comics.
is he hulk because he’s the strongest, or is he the strongest because he’s hulk ?
Is water wet?
@@AttentionHorror2.0 only when it sees me fr
You know I always thought hulk could beat anyone but ever since they did him dirty it makes me think anyone can beat him and he was my favorite character and u made me love the hulk again by sayin he needed to be more stronger and scarier 😊
Yeah Iron-Man won way to easily, that kind of says it all. And I'm glad I could help you love The Hulk again.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 you’re right about how Ironman defeated the hulk so easily and by the way thank you
LOL, Hulk is the literal embodiment of masculine rage and vitality, of course the MCU would rather neuter him as opposed to exploring the character🤣
Bro could’ve been one of the top MCU characters. Now he’s not even in the top 10 or even 20
He used to be a LAD.
While I agree the Hulk is mistreated but why do y'all always have to bring race into everything
@@darkgaming8883
Nothing has been edited and literally nobody said anything about Race.
@@Melina_Evarblume_Seelie i meant sex my bad
Well, him losing to Thor and Thanos is on brand to the comics. Also I think the reason we didn't get a solo War World Hulk movie is it wouldn't have fit into the ongoing series they were telling. Try and picture Hulk going to Sakar, fighting, taking over, all his new friends and family being blown up, going back to Earth ahead of an army of pissed off aliens, wreak New York, then.....Thanos? Wouldn't work
I have always thought myself that Hulk got flanderized as time goes on.
I read comics. Thanos has beaten the breaks off of Hulk multiple times bro.
Edit: just read more comments. Good on you for admitting you were misinformed here. I agree with the rest of the video though. This is quality content.
18:48 In the Russo Bros' defence here, I remember reading somewhere that they wanted Hulk's triumphant return here instead of Captain Marvel. But the brass higher up in Marvel overrode that decision and we ended up with that shitty Captain Marvel girlboss scene literally no one wanted. The Russo Brother's actually wanted it to be Hulk who returned finally and smashed his way through Thanos' fleet and then onto the Mad Titan himself! The fact we live in the timeline where we didn't get that scene is so damn heartbreaking to me.
Hulk has long been my second favourite superhero for me of all-time, right behind Spider-Man. For many reasons, the Hulk has always meant so much to me. I adored The Incredible Hulk and I loved his appearance in the first Avengers film. Those films epitomise Hulk to me! Age of Ultron was okay but I agree with your assessment his neutering began here with the Hulkbuster fight. Ever since Thanos beat him, what we have now is not the Hulk.
I mourn the Jade Giant and what the MCU's done to him. As a lifelong Hulk comics reader, I've seen that Professor Hulk can be written well and still feel like Hulk, but the MCU's version isn't it.
All I want is another solid Hulk movie. I hated his treatment in She-Hulk (and Abomination's too!). Give me Planet Hulk and World War Hulk, but the real versions this time! Not that watered down crap we got in Ragnarok or the unrecognisable Skaar that appeared in She-Hulk (that was NOT Skaar!)
World war hulk is quite impossible to make cause how is this gonna fit in with what the mcu timeline we are in right now
@@protag64toons2.0 well, considering the less than optimal state of the MCU currently, I wouldn't even be mad if they had to do some hoops and jumps to make WWH work. If they did it properly, it'd be better than the garbage they've been pumping out of late like The Marvels
Planet Hulk and World War Hulk are two of my favorite comics ever. The dialogue, the storyline, all of it makes the comics for me. I love hulk’s fight with the Illuminati.
I've read that the Russos didn't know what to do with Hulk and really didn't like him that much.
Watching Endgame for the first time I was expecting Hulk to get supercharged from the gamma radiation but was very disappointed.
Have Peter get sent to a shitty dimension and live out WWH as a homage to his comic history of shit end of the stick LMFAO @@protag64toons2.0
Fear not fellow Hulk fans. Remember....he's *always* angry. They can bring back the true raging Hulkster we all know and love - and they will - probably as others have said, as the Ace in the Hole. Secret Wars looking grim - bad guys taking down all the main heroes easily, Smart Hulks looking around assessing the situation, knows it's now or never and he has to kiss good bye to being behind the one behind the wheel - says, "Alright Big Guy...your turn." *proceeds to transform into the True Hulk to rapturous applause in the cinema*
Uuu, that would be so cool! And imagine than him punching doom or any villain so hard the earth shatters that would be so cool!
The Russo Bros didn't like the Hulk and admitted they didn't know what to do with hulk.
"That's my secret, I'm always angry" was one of the most impactful lines of The Avengers.
Every movie after that its like they completely forgot where Hulk gets his powers from, he's supposed to get stronger the angrier he gets. But instead of making him angry, they just made him sad.
He spends the entirety of Age of Ultron being depressed. Then he's melancholic for almost all of Ragnarok, getting a bit of fight back in him towards the end; only to then have it beaten out of him completely in Infinity war. After which he just stays neutered for the rest of the MCU.
All they had to do was to replace all the times when he got sad and turn it into anger and he would still be The Hulk. Nowadays he's barely a mascot.
0:32 I would of loved seeing the 2008 Incredible Savage Hulk in the Avengers. Not the Jolly Green Wimp that gets talked down too and Disrespected by She-Hulk. We all know Hulk and Banner did far more than her.
I'm of the unpopular opinion the 2003 hulk was my favorite. The passive storyline on childhood trauma being the monster was genuinely an interesting idea. Plus that film scared me as a kid
I couldnt agree more, Tony should have been terrified when he realises he has to face the Hulk by himself, then maybe he cracks a joke before launching a 'hulkbuster jericho missile' at the hulk which causes him to come to his senses and revert to banner. Hulk should never be knocked out!
I have this crazy theory that they nerfed and relegated Hulk more and more because Hulk inherently represents masculinity: both toxic masculinity (anger, solving everything with violence, in the comics he even appears possesive of some people and of the "body" Banner and him share) and also positive masculinity (strenght and toughness used to help and save others, to "man up" enduring/channeling your trauma and negative emotions towards positive goals, being protective of the weak and innocent like puppies and children).
In current year it's obvious that Disney hates all those qualities (both negative and positive), and tries to replace "manly" males by just genderswapping them (She-Hulk is all that's wrong with Hulk but presented as if she was instead better, the forgotten Ironheart substitute to Iron Man, The Marvels and how infamously internet predicted they'd try to make Captain Marvel a lesbian in that last-minute deleted scene...). Hulk being not only manliness but indomitability and rebellion incarnate, it's very opposite to both what Disney wants to represent and what it really represents (greed, hypocresy and doing anything to make more cash while trying to appear in the most socially-acceptable light possible) and the company doesn't want the fandom to self-identify nor with the masculinity of Hulk neither with his thirst for freedom.
But it's probably because his solo movie made the least money or something like that.
Honestly, that's probably what it is, seeing the watered-down garbage that the MCU put out. They put every strong or male character down. Hulk, Thor, antman etc.
You have to love someone claiming she's "an expert in controlling anger" as she shouts angrily at someone who's calmly sitting across from her.
Thanos in the comics has never lost a fight to Hulk
I might’ve actually been misinformed on that point. Did some more research and read some comics realizing that hulk’s pure strength isn’t enough to really take down Thanos. Not only is Thanos strong, but he’s smarter than Hulk. Which is exactly why Thanos wins so much.
I was wrong to say Thanos never wins.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 tho Thanos does avoid the hulk because if hulk gets angry enough he could beat Thanos which is why he always tries to take down the hulk quickly like in Infinity war
@@ljthehedgehog2342 Yeah, sadly they haven't really even shown The Hulk getting stronger/bigger in the MCU.
616 Thanos (without the gauntlet) and 616 Hulk have never actually had a proper physical fight with an outright winner. Only people who don't actually read comics don't know this. Not only that but 616 Thanos has literally stated that he'd rather avoid having to fight the Hulk. So him getting trounced in 30 seconds was just poor writing
@@AttentionHorror2.0 stronger yes bigger no In ragnorok hulk was getting angrier and he hasn't gotten bigger
Excellent excellent video and commentary. I completely agree. Don't lose hope. All we need is better writers and a never give up strong will. The Hulk needs to once again to be rebooted until it is done right, with honor and respect. Then and only then The incredible Hulk can live forever!
Thanks man, means a lot. And a reboot would work wonders on this character.
Also one thing i notice in the MCU, i feel like Hulk size is getting smaller in every new iteration. Or maybe they just so inconsistent from the beginning idk
Hulk became the Green Ruffalo. Marvel became Slightly Amused. Wolverine was killed with a stick.
Thor got fat.
very good video, i really don't understand how you only got 51 subscribers??
Really appreciate that! A lot more videos to come.
@@AttentionHorror2.0 you know hulk has always been my favourite superhero since i first saw the incredible hulk as a child, really a shame how they did him
Low subs cause hes a relatively new channel with 3 vids. Give him some time cause channels dont normally just get tons of subs right off the bat unless they're connected to a previous youtuber
You’re right! The Incredible Hulk has the best movie version of the Hulk. It was true to the comic version and, the dark undertones of the movie reminded me a lot of the old tv show.
Could you review Hulk 2003?
By the way, nice video. Good that Hulk is getting appreciation
What's worse is that it's not even Universal's fault really, They only had the distribution rights to Solo Live Action Hulk Movies and all Marvel would have to do is ask them and even if Universal said no that just means Marvel doesn't have to work with them to make a Solo Hulk project. But the real problem was/is Disney as they've always had creative control over the entire MCU and even some stuff beyond like the Disney XD stuff which is why Earth's Mightiest Heroes and Spectacular Spider-Man along with the rest of the Yost-Verse got cancelled because they wanted synergy with the Movies and Live Action Shows but that ultimately failed. We were originally gonna get a Live action Hulk TV show directed by Guillermo del Toro who wanted to delve deep into the lore of the character and make something Truly Epic like he did with HELLBOY 1 and 2. But Kevin Feige(And by extension Disney) rejected it multiple times because he/they wouldn't have any direct control over the narrative and ultimately the show was canned in favor of others like Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D., Jessica Jones, Cloak & Dagger and Marvel Runaways. Marvel could've made a Hulk Trilogy year's ago but the fault was always on Disney because they just never let anyone cook with Hulk unless it's at his expense in favor of their current ways of thinking and we all know how that turned out. Two Shows by Disney that came out surrounding Hulk were Hulk and The Agents of S.M.A.S.H. and of course She Hulk Attorney at Law and both did eruptible Damage to the Hulk I.P. in recent memory. Agents of S.M.A.S.H. was obviously meant to cash in on Agent's of S.H.I.E.L.D.'s popularity and it was not very good whatsoever same with She Hulk. Both shows horribly handle the Hulk's character and Lore and don't even attempt to stay true to it at all. Now if you were to ask me which one is worse between the two I honestly couldn't tell you, that's how bad it is. On one hand She Hulk is just an Abomination that never ceases to enrage and belittle it's audience all while trying to be a "Funny Sitcom". And on the Other Hand Agent's of Smash has 52 episodes so it's way longer but just as painful to sit through. It's basically a bad Fantastic Four Sitcom disguised as a Hulk show and it pretty much does about what you'd expect from Modern Disney with how they've handled other television properties. So as a Hulk Fan I feel we are LONG overdue for a reboot or just something good to get this bad taste out our mouths. Hulk deserves better and so does the rest of Marvel Entertainment as a whole. My only hope right now is that X-Men 97 will pave the way for us to maybe hopefully get a revival of the 90s Hulk animated series and get some much needed proper adaptation of his comic stories. That and hopefully him showing up in Deadpool & Wolverine and maybe undoing the Whole Smart Hulk nonsense, perhaps even retconning everything from before Thor Ragnarok so we get a second chance to see a proper Live Action Hulk Trilogy or TV Show done right this time. But one can only hope.
Hulk wasn’t knocked out by Tony. When Wanda’s spell wore off Hulk realized the destruction at his hand and felt a sense of remorse. You can see it in his eyes when he sees the fear all around him. He gave up just moments before Tony landed that final blow. Had Hulk stayed enraged, Tony and that entire city would have been rubble.
Really liked the frustrated and desperate narration.. it looked as if u held it in ur heart and spilled it out all in this one video.... 😢😢
He's been Worf Effected to an afterthought.
Immortal hulk was an amazing series and is the first comic book series I read as it came out.
I miss 2003 Hulk he was accurate and real Hulk
2003 Hulk is so much better than what we currently have
They did that on purpose to the Hulk because Mark Ruffalo almost spoiled Thor Ragnarok. I kid you not, they ruined a perfectly good character out of spiteful revenge.
They had to emasculate the Hulk.
After Infinity War, I noped out of the MCU. My wife had to force me to watch End Game with her. I no longer support the MCU. Then to make She-Hulk into a feminist just pissed on the ashes of the Fxcks I had left.
Whats even worst is Profressor Hulk which they r trying to potray is suppose to be one of the smartest version of hulk that is st least as smart as the leader (not fully sure) and you see him being dumb in the movies and in she-hulk.
Also they ignore the fact how resistant to mind control of hulk is. In ultron 2. Too much gamma and rage.
2003 was my favorite Hulk. So underrated and i miss it
Definitely a classic, it was my favorite growing up. Well that and the Animated Hulk series.
10 views in 5 hours? Now that just ain't right.
I think UA-cam heard you...😶
Ever think that maybe the reason they don't want a Hulk movie is because they already tried making two and they bombed. Think maybe the reason they decided to go a different route was because the old formula obviously wasn't working? I may be coming off a little more condescending than I mean to here, but I'm getting the picture that you're kinda missing the forest from the tress here. Occam's Razor; The simplest solution is often the truth.
Also the Russo brothers have a fetish for captain America they didn’t give a fuck about any other character development but cap and his story they should never direct a superhero based film again
I actually never noticed who they had a “fetish” for. I just know they never had one for The Hulk
That’s not even true. They wrapped up Ironman, the Shield assassins, Falcon, War Machine, Black Panther, Thor, the Guardians, Fury, Doc Strange in 2 movies.
The only one they truly nerfed was Hulk and that’s the only criticism I have. The Russos did the majority of the characters better than any other director in the MCU so far. I’d say James Gunn but he only gets the Guardians.
You have spoken every single fucking thing what was in my heart. I loved hulk’s character. I was waiting for the moment in endgame, that now everyone can truly know hulk’s potential but they just sidelined the hulk. I wish to happen world war hulk.
Tony Stark has defeated Hulk in the comics canonically at least twice. While it's true that Hulk has beat Iron man more than lost, Saying that Hulk was neutered in the Second Avengers movies is unbelievable levels of glaze (Why does Iron man ever stand a chance in this fight? Iron man is one of the only characters in the verse with double digit chances of winning). Hulk only lost that fight after he had the emotional realization of what he'd done, and was in a psychologically vulnerable state. Iron man HAD to sucker punch him, or he'd have re-enraged in response to the soldiers aiming guns at him. That may have been Hulk's loss, but it was barely a loss.
Hulk ate a family meal of punches, an elevator, a whole building, atomizing levels of repulsor blasts, and definitely lethal amounts of electricity. (and still managed to destroy veronica's support ship). None of that did him in. He was beat by his own heart. Arguing the down fall of Hulk starts with Avengers 1 & 2, sounds more like you're mad Hulk doesn't win every match up he's in, and not like you're fairly assessing what's wrong with the character writing. To be clear, post infinity-war, Hulk is trash. I agree they did him dirty as fuck in EG, and Phase 4/5.
Everyone has beaten everyone, so you can't bring down Hulk by saying, "Iron Man beat him twice tho ☝️🤓" Hulk has never actually lost a fight with the Hulkbuster at all so that's why Tony beating him by himself made no sense and after that he gets knocked out by a punch which is incredibly hard to watch for comic fans 😅
@@Kumo0toko 1. Never said anything remotely close to "everyone's beaten the hulk".
2. In comic cannon, the suit was sabotaged by an outside party, and was on track to win before that.
3. The movie reflects accurately the reality that the suit can and was going to beat the Hulk.
4. Tony barely won. When Hulk was emotionally vulnerable. If his power grows with his rage, it's rational that the opposite was true.
Like I said in my comment. The hulk ultimately beat himself. I didn't gas up Tony, I didn't down play Hulk. It is whiney and stupid to argue that Hulk's loss in AoU is evidence of his down fall. He falls off in infinity war, and not a moment sooner.
Norton's 2008 Hulk was the best, he looked and behaved exactly the way the Hulk should. In the last 2 Avengers movie, disney destroyed the Hulk and turned him into a snowpuff.
The Hulk's arc represents the process of therapy and healing. Not rejecting the "bad" traits of you but integrating them into yourself. Repression leads to toxicity. He's no longer David, and he's no longer the Hulk. He is as he is.
Thor also experienced trauma, as did Starlord (love that name). Some of us eat and drink our feelings after trauma. We do all of these things when we're hurt, when simply all we have to do is talk. And for decades, men have been conditioned to suppress.
I expect this comment to get backlash. And it would only serve to reinforce my point. Pushbacks welcome though.
All they needed to do was brjng in the Leader to antagonize the Hulk which would then lead to Maestro eventually
i agree with some of this guys points but not all of them.
Completely fair
Hulk is Eric Bana. Period. Worst stand in is the skinny Edward Norton.
I think marvel thought having hulk at full power would render the rest of the avengers useless, so they nerfed him
I like that the ending for his character is the dorky hulk. And Bruce is a dork who’s afraid of losing his temper. And now he doesn’t have to worry about that. But we missed a very important and potentially entertaining story beat in those 5 years. Him learning to work with hulk. We skipped to the end and people aren’t satisfied. His story is he went from terrifying time bomb to finally working around it. But they skipped like a third of it. All we got is a deleted scene where Bruce and hulk argue and the pacing and dialogue feels off so no wonder they cut it. I truly believe people wouldn’t have a problem with prof. hulk if we got to see all of how hard it was to reach that point. I partially blame universal too for just not doing anything with hulk and causing the MCU to just neglect hulk and having to use him as a side character
That’s a fair take. We probably would enjoy professor hulk more if there was an actual payoff.. Like you said, they skipped so much in between, and now they’re paying the consequences.
Yeah, the treatment of the Hulk is the biggest letdown of those final great Marvel epics. I heard James Gunn say he would have liked to make a Hulk movie. That probably won't happen now - a shame!
They missed the Chance to bring in Joe Fix it. He was brainy version of Hulk.
Yeah, but they probably would have made a joke out of him too.
That is true, I'm just saying they missed perfect chance to do it. Plus Joe Fix it could have avenged Hulk when Thanos beat him!
The thing about Universal is not entirely true. Marvel currently has the Hulk's film rights & has had them since 2006. What Universal has is the rights of first refusal in terms of distribution. If Marvel wanted to make a Hulk film, they would have to ask Universal first to distribute it. If they refuse, Marvel can just go through Disney instead.
You have to remember that every time Hulk is fighting especially the CGI & practical effects must be difficult to put together and very costly.
If Hulk does not show up in Captain America Brave New World to take on Red Hulk, then I do not know what to say. Honestly, you said some sound points and it is partly due to the HULK film rights that messed up the Hulk's character in the MCU.
Hulk shouldn’t have lost that fight with thanos the anger he gets the stronger he gets and in Thor 3 he had training so he should of been so OP thanos had to use the stones to win as a hulk fan I really hate what they did to him.
Hulk peaked in the first avengers movie :(
16:26 “The appeal if Hulk is that he is split between two people.”
I get what you’re implying but that’s not what’s happening. It’s not a split between two people, it’s the same person who is being split.
The appeal of Hulk is one person with multiple personalities, hence why there’s so many versions of Hulk. Savage Hulk is just one aspect of the same person who can produce the other Hulks.
The Hulk has always been my favorite superhero of all day time and they treated him like absolute garbage...
When you said let’s go back to the beginning I was like oh god no not the 1978 TV series
It's a shame, the hulk carried the marvel franchise on his back throughout the 1900s
The Hulk really shouldn't look like Banner. The character had a secret identity in the '60s so you shouldn't look at the Hulk and recognize Bruce.
Any video that includes the word "Never" in the title is doomed to be wrong. There are no absolutes in comic book stories.
While you’re right, it’s more like I’m saying, we won’t ever have this character as good as he “once was”.
I wonder how Ang Lee's / Eric Bana's Hulk would have faired in the MCU; I think the complexity of that iteration was largely lost on 2003 audiences but would fit really well in the MCU. He's better than Ruffalo's version. They gave a glimpse of a great Hulk in The Avengers but it's been completely forgotten since as he's basically a bit part in the series. They really need to go back to the drawing board with him, as She-Hulk has probably had more focus that actual Hulk got since 2012, and that is just depressing.
Anyway, your video is great man. Looking forward to seeing more. New subscriber achieved.
they’re not gonna make Hulk beat every villain every movie in 60 seconds
Hulk perfectly depicts decline of masculinity in the West. What a joke.
Universal still owns the film rights. I think Disney/Marvel is devaluing the brand with all of the comic relief, major character development happening off screen , and the shitty cameos