I have one of Frank’s books. It’s a great read. And the 5 count has saved me money on the short shooters. Especially on the $15/min tables that I play on.
Golden Touch Craps says that 57% ( 5.7/10) of all shooters will seven out within 5 rolls?? WELL lets start to win on those 57% of shooters & the other 43% as well. Try The new 5-Count DON'T System and follow the trend of the table. Part of the little three, Theory, logic and trends. MYTHS # 2.The 5-Count System. Enjoy the show: ua-cam.com/video/mYKuSC8oZYA/v-deo.html
Holy Hell, Nick Papagiorgio shooting at the 13 min mark. That was like every craps scene in a movie filmed by ppl whose vraps knowledge doesn't exceed the come out roll. Absolutely amazing.
Hey color up! I love your head-to-head system videos. I feel like this one would be an awesome one to go head to head with another traditional system like maybe iron cross or three point Molly. I would love to see that!
I don't think I would use this method for deciding if I should be betting or not on a particular shooter. I appreciate the idea but I'm pretty sure if we did 1 hour of this as a test we would find it would be a pretty even win to lose ratio or woulda of coulda won ratio. Honestly sometimes my favorite shooters are people who have never threw dice before or even know how to play the game properly. I rather gamble on that fun then waiting a bunch of rolls where I could be winning. If I lose on that gamble OH WELL.. crap. :)
Thanks Jeremy. Like the strategy for randoms as well as regular shooters who go cold for a bit (happens to all of us). As an alternative, sometimes I'll go with a quick come bet on a cold shooter or table, then increase if it gets hot. It's also a good hedge on point-7 streaks.
You definitely need to be counting all rolls if doing 5 count method. The supposed 8.5 rolls average per shooter is based on including all the craps numbers, so there is no reason not to count those. If you're waiting for a 5 count on strictly box number hits, you'll very frequently just lose your bets as soon as you make them. Whereas on a true 5 count you could've already made some profit hits, and regressed to guarantee profit before the inevitable 7.
I have a lots of Frank's books. He was influenced by the late great Captain of Craps. Use the five count method a lot. Saved me money a lot. On cruise ships they take steps to discourage you to play this way.
This is an excellent strategy for a "cold" table. If I only had a dollar for all the times I have PSO or bet on a shooter that has PSO....I'd have enough to play high limit craps for a while!
I play both the Pass/Don’t and put odds on the Don’t Pass for the first few rolls to see if they 7 out early. Once I see they have a rhythm going them i put the odds on the Pass Line and make whatever Place bets I think are in their wheelhouse
So I think a lot of people are missing the actual point of this strategy. It's to keep you at the table longer so that you have a better chance of running into a streak shooter, nothing more, nothing less. By avoiding the rollers who 7 out within those 5 rolls you're saving your bankroll and seeing more shooters. The more shooters you see the better odds of one of them having that random 15 roll or higher run. It's been a while since I used this method, but there were several times where I outlasted every person at the table that I started with. Sometimes I then ended up ahead, and other times I just continued to slowly lose my bankroll, but regardless I would have busted out much sooner had I not been playing this strategy.
Great video Color Up. FYI, @ the 11:35 mark, you hit the Point (8) but didn't flip the puck to Off (the first 8 was rolled @ the 10:00 mark as roll # 1 in the "5 Count Method"). On the next roll, you rolled another 8 which would have established a new Point as it was technically the Come Out roll. In this instance, you still would've paid the 8 as that was a Come bet from the previous roll, but you next four rolls were all 11's (which you paid out because you thought the puck was Off). In reality, you would have never been paid on those four 11's as you already established a Point (unless you were playing another Come bet ... but I don't think you were) and then proceeded to roll two back to back 7's thereafter.
@@ColorUp Yea I caught this immediate and then watched it played out so I could see if it would of even made a difference. It did make a difference but really the point of the video was to explain a strategy for deciding if you should bet on a shooter or not. We can't prove it's any better then any other method without multiple hours over multiple days, but it is a strategy none the less. And in all fairness, when I "practice" I often do the payouts for a point hit first and forget to turn off the puck. I tried turning off the puck first and then I forget the payouts. There's no way to make it prefect when you are 1 person filling in for 3 dealers while practicing.
I’ve read his book and when I first started playing, I followed his advise, actually, when I play, I like to watch rollers ahead of me before I place a bet. That was long before current conditions, so I understand how that might not be a good way to play now days. Once I do place my bets, I would play like that until I paid for my bets on the table, and I’d pull them down. I would do this until I had doubled I buy in. I’m not always that disciplined now days. I haven’t played since prior to the craziness started and I really want to get back to the casinos SO badly! We have a grand baby coming in a few months so we are abstaining from what I call the dirtiest place you can probably go, even in good conditions. Dirty, maybe but it’s still my favorite place to go and have fun. Q
I have heard and have seen people betting with this idea; it's weird to me. There is so many different mathematic forces at play in Craps like you mentioned Jeremy. 8.5 rolls is the average, and this 5 count method doesn't start til you make a point. Couple that with a Seven rolling 1in 6 rolls on average; this idea is going to propagate a whole lot more quick losses than anything else in the long run. I have to imagine this idea was dreamt up by someone who thinks things are less than random. Thanks Jeremy for rolling out tons of different ways to play.
The most common mistake of the 5 count is that you start counting once a box number is hit and after the 4th count you must have a box number. Onecthe 5th count is hit, you put only 1 come bet with odds and that is it. You will have to wait awhile for it to hit.
After the 5 count ends with a box number your first bet is a Come bet. If the 5 count ends with the shooter hitting the point your first bet is on the pass line. Taking as much in odds as you feel comfortable with. After your Come bet travels to the point place another Come bet. repeat 2 times or more if you feel you can handle it. That's the way learned to do it last weekend GTC.
What is the best betting method to use on yourself? Pass line with odds, place the 6 & 8 and buy the 4 & 10 when vig paid only on wins? Or pass line with odds, place the 6 & 8 and then only make come bets with odds? Thx!
@nastynate7913 passline with max odds or whatever your comfortable doing. Come bets with odds, to a max of 3 numbers, or if your again comfortable them more numbers. Using the Come betting. Hope that helps you
standing next to a guy in the flamingo on the strip 22 years ago. he rolled five yo's in a row. made around $4k. i made about $30.00 cause i don't have any balls lol. my wife was standing behind me and witnessed it. the table was screaming so loud it seemed half the casino was there. good times had by all. true story. honest!! i am 73 and never lie.
I have seen this method. Also seen the take 3 -4 Hits and then. Go off strategy. Which I believe you did in another video. Not personally a fan of either. But I do understand the pain of losing 64/96/162 across bets in one roll. I think my strategy is from try to follow whatever the shooter is doing. If I see a lot of points made I will play line with odds. If I don’t I might go across. Etc.
Which begs the question: what’s a random roller? We’ve all seen “dice setters” go one and out followed by random rollers who go 12, 15, 17 or more rolls. Sometimes the table will see a long roller and then, as if on queue, the next 5 or 6 shooters go no more than five rolls. It can be a rewarding and unforgiving game all at the same time. It really just matters how you line up your bets. Thanks for the insight.
I would say a random roller is someone that picks up the dice, shakes them and then tosses them. Then you have a rhythm roller. That is someone who has a very specific routine that usually also involves setting the dice to a specific set before their toss. Then you have wannabe dice controllers, these are people who've seen a few UA-cam videos, set the dice and try to mimic what they see actual dice controllers do, but do not do any type of practice or haven't taken any type of courses. Then you have actual dice controllers, people who take it very seriously who practice for hours on end to have their throw be consistent and their results repeatable. Most people that you see setting the dice are probably in the wannabe category. But if you get at the table with someone who's truly good at dice control, someone like a Howard Newman, Dominic Loriggio, Frank Scobleti, Stanford Wong... These guys are the best of the best, and roll with them or watch them roll and you will see consistently longer rolls and repeatable results. Like anything, there are levels of skill. Those guys are major league talent and treat it like a sport. They practice, tweak, chart results, alter their throws, learn new things and improve their craft. Most other people who practice it are minor league, little league or softball league talent. Sure they practice and are ok at it... But they don't take it as seriously as the best of the best. There's also natural talent that comes into play. Sorry for the LONG ass post. But a random roller is someone who just grabs the dice and tosses them without much thought 🤣
The Captain's definition of a random roller is someoone who doesn't take care with the dice (setting, soft toss w/repeated same motion, etc. In the case you described in your question, the 5-Count would save you alot of money. In craps, you need to protect your bankroll until that long roll (12, 15, 17 or more as you say) comes along. The 5-Cou nt will protect you till you get to that long roller, whether he or she is a Dice controller or just a plain ol' Random roller.
The 5-count has been mathematically proven to work over long computer simulations to eliminate the short rollers at the presentages presented tin this video..
If you get casino pressure for standing around waiting, just make a pass line bet and continue to wait. I know that's Not part of the strategy but neither is getting kicked off the table.
@@ColorUp nobody has the patience and that is what the Casino is counting on. No patience is to lose more money. The 5-Count is designed to save and protect your bank roll until you get to that long roller....
Given that the average roll is 8.5, it does not make any statistical sense to hold out until the end of the average roll so you can catch the 7. I have also seen strategies where people suggest only staying in for 5 rolls, which makes more statistical sense for dodging 7s, but cuts you out on the longer rolls that would be making you money. The only advantage this system has is that you have your money on the table less of the time overall which reduces your overall negative expectation.
When I play the Five Count, I place a come bet on the 4th going into the 5th roll, then a second come bet on the 5th going into the sixth roll. Then proceed with a traditional dealer John strategy, though, at this point I do take at least 1x odds on my comes.
I set my dice to all sevens showing on the come out roll and all hard ways once I make a point. I can’t tell you how many times I have gone on to roll 20+ times doing this. I just throw the dice like I normally would but pick them up with my just my fingers touching the dice. I started doing this several years ago. One time in particular, I was at the four queens and rolled 30 times and the whole table passed the dice back to me. I wasn’t quite as successful that time but did roll 17 more time before I sevened out. It was so fun and we all made good money. One guy tipped me $50.00 which I gave half back to the dealers.
Just observation many rolls including yours, it's probably most advantageous to start betting after the shooter doesn't point seven out. But there is no fool proof way.
Question so when someone does place bet doesn't it make your profit way smaller when a person put chips on two or more numbers. Instead of just doing place bet on one number. Please forgive this question as I haven't played craps before. Here I'm talking about after a point is made.
You have more at risk to losing to 7….you also have more dice combinations to win. That’s the trade off. for instance place betting the 5 for $10 wins $14 with 4 ways to win and 6 ways to lose. If you place the numbers 5,6,8,9 you have $44 at risk to only win $14, but you have 18 ways to win and 6 ways to lose.
I think that "the 36 hop along" would have done fantastic here until you nailed the 4 in row yoh's. On my count, it made $490 profit in about 10 minutes. Not normal ( like those yoh's), but it was a nice streak.
Question about terminology please: what do you mean by "random roller"? I'll assume you mean, just some random person shooting, but want to clarify it doesn't mean something else. Thanks!
Im using the dice controllers terminology here, calling those that don’t set and try to control the dice as “random shooters” They assume “random shooters” who just shake and toss somehow have worse results. I think this 5 count method can be applied to everyone though.
@@ColorUp Yes it can. It protects you even against the Dice Controller whho is having a bad day or not getting it done. Hell, I've even used the 5-Count to protect me against myself!🤐🤔🥴🥴🥴
When i random roll im always throwing 7 s with in the 1st to 5th roll. Can anything be deduced from this? I stopped ramdom. I seem to do almost the same with controlled. Hence i never bet on myself & always look for the ones rolling good. I do seem to see shills come in to play to stimulate the table then they run off.
Hi, this is Classical Pipes. I have uploaded all my old craps videos onto this channel. I had to redo my Classical Pipes channel due to youtube monetization rules against tobacco. It is now a cooking channel. My old craps videos now have their own channel. Thanks.
@@ColorUp Thanks man. Yes I only made those videos because there wasn't much on youtube at the time. However when I moved in 2015 I couldn't take my craps table. I keep all the chips and everything. Keep up the good work. Your doing great with 60k subs just on craps.
Peppermill, Atlantis, GSR, I like so far. The Row, connected Caesars properties downtown almost always have only $25 tables 😡 no opinion about the other casinos as yet.
Atlantis and Nugget generally 5 to 10 all the time. Atlantis has 5 dollar table 7 days a week but it's a "divided" table meaning half of it is 5 dollars and the other half is 10 dollars. IMO Atlantis is hands down the best place to play craps in Reno. Dealers and pit bosses very friendly.
I always laugh at people who dump on "random shooters" and fancy themselves as "dice control shooters" it's been my experience that most people might TRY to utilize dice control but don't actually pull it off and their dice hitting the face wall turn them into a "random shooter" anyways. I like to compare it to pitching in baseball, in that it's an art form. It is possible for people to throw an off speed/ breaking pitch. But to do it successfully and consistently is a lot more rarer than people fancy it to be.
@@ColorUp yup. nothing is funnier than a guy who looks really serious setting dice, everyone loads up the table anticipating the second cumming and bingo he 7's out and i'm the only one who cashes in with my don't. i know i'm a sadistic pos but hay...it's gambling and life is a cut throat business adventure. keep up your stuff color up.
I bet on every random shooter from the 1st roll (no waiting) but I do avoid the pass line (if the table is "cold") & I just start out with a single 6 place bet, Then rack the $ if it hits, If it hits again, I add a 8 place bet. and just keep collecting . low risk, & if the roll goes & goes I make some money. the longest random roll I ever witnessed was 62 rolls, & I've seen many "randoms" in the high 20's. One guy who never played craps before was next to me & his 1st time up rolled 4 yo's in a row on the come out, I told him to bet the yo after his 1st yo & he refused, finally after his 3rd, He put $20 on the yo & rolled a 4th yo, making $300 He was hooked on craps after that. Also, his 1st roll was around 20 rolls. Oh yeah, & that guy that rolled 62 rolls made 5 points, rolled zero 7's the entire roll (no come out 7's) blew my mind. sad thing is, there was just myself & the roller, so the casino was lucky that it was not a full table.
This is probably why Casinos don't seem to give Dice Controllers any heat these days... They used to get heat 20 years ago. I remember one time a was shooting on a Tub table and the dealer said to me "Didn't anyone ever tell you that you can't set the dice?' I answered him right in stride and said"I don't play craps at casino's who don't let me set the dice" and when right on rolling for 40 minutes!
Unfortunately, this is not the best way to avoid random rollers during a session. I've spent more than 200,000 rolls analyzing 12 different well known strategies head to head. In my session rolls, what is very sad is that the 3-point molly with 3x,4x,5x odds actually beat the 5-count head to head 2 out of 3 sessions and I hate both strategies to be honest. If you want the best strategy that hands down wins all of the time, I'm more than happy to share it. On a $500 bankroll, the strat I use averages $736 on a full table. Not to mention the 5-count is the most boring betting strategy of all time. You sit forever twiddling your thumbs to finally get in the game and then you can hit a 7-out right after making your first 1 or 2 bets. If you want to maximize this strategy against random rollers you might as well bet $0 on them all of the time and keep your hands in your pockets. Success! All strategies have their issues though and this one does as well. I don't like the title of your video. It is NOT the best betting method for random rollers at a craps table. That is a very personal and subjective title and completely untrue.
Titles are to attract viewers. No such thing as a best strategy, not even a winning strategy exists despite your claim you can share one that “wins all of the time” All strategies win sometimes, no strategy wins all the time. You can submit strategies on my dice advice form at www.colorup.club
After 5 rolls without the 7 showing up, doesn't that suggest the 7 is mathematically due? After all Mr. 7 shows up on average of every 6 rolls. To assume that five rolls without a 7 showing up constitutes a hot roller is to read the mind of the dice. But the dice are as brainless as my uncle Pete. While on the other hand, my aunt Beatrice will tell your future for $10. That's my ride, gotta go.
You are correct the dice have no mind, and also don't know what has rolled in past. A 7 is no less due after 100 rolls than after 6 rolls. Every roll the 7 has a 1 in 6 chance. Due number theory is often referred to as the Gamblers Fallacy.
Except all those 11's wouldn't have paid and only one of the 7's would have been on the come out, because you rolled the point earlier ('8') and didn't turn the puck off at 11:27 mark
@@ColorUp But…you would have moved the Come bet up to the 8 and paid your Place bet, then turned the puck off. You then roll an 8 the very next roll to re-establish the point as 8, and you would have paid the Come bet. I assume you would have then placed the 8 and had a Come bet in play…so you would have been getting paid on all those 11’s on the Come bet instead of the Line! So the mistake in the end wasn’t all that bad I suppose.
There is zero validity to the five count. The dice have no memory so you can get hit on the sixth roll or seventh. Meanwhile a random shooter might throw three sixes in the first five rolls which you could have been on. Here's my way. The shooter throws two inside numbers..the come out and then the 2nd. Go 66 inside for two rolls and down.
No validity to 5 count, would also mean no validity to playing two rolls and down. 1 in 6 chance the 7 appears on each and every roll, even the first two :) also as soon as you put your bets back up on next shooter, same chance applies.
Ok. According to the Wizard of Odds, the average roll is 8.5255....So if you count to five rolls, you are leaving, on the average, 3 rolls before the 7. Yeah..it's an average which means wild swings either way or just a flat situation. I prefer to watch the table before I bet on randys..and the five count can come in handy if you notice sevens closing in..and you bet the don'ts. But random shooters who come out with inside numbers..or early repeaters..I will give them a shot if the table isn't showing sevens within a couple rolls.
After 8.5 rolls you are no closer or further from 7 out. Every roll is independent and probability resets. But for every 15+ roll there are certainly plenty of rolls that are under 5
@@IMove2Earn this is my go to plan. I tend to watch shooters first and get a feel for the table. Look at the chip stacks, how the dice are being thrown, and what numbers are frequently showing up.
Craps Rule #1: Repeat after me. THE DICE HAVE NO M-E-M-O-R-Y. A shooter surviving a five count has proven NOTHING! It's no better or worse than an 8 or 10 count. The next roll is an INDEPENDENT EVENT. Same is true when pressing up your bets after a 12 count. Next roll is INDEPENDENT of EVERYTHING that has occurred previously. I never ceased to be amazed at how people can accurately quote the specific odds of any craps bet on the table and then actually believe as if a roll count some how affects those odds. Craps Rule #2: There is NO such thing as playing with "house money." If you win a bet and are paid off, it is IMMEDIATELY YOUR MONEY. It is YOUR decision whether to rack it up, cash it in or re-wager it on another bet of some fashion. One the one hand, I can understand why losing any profit over and above your buy in "stings less," but, on the other hand, I'm not certain why it stings less at all IF your objective was to actually MAKE MONEY. If you rack up $500 in profit and give it all back you've completely failed in your objective.
I enjoy the content on this channel, but c'mon now. There is no such thing as a "random roller" vs a "skilled shooter". It's all just probability and blind luck. The shooter, the vibe, and all that kind of stuff has no bearing on any of the outcomes, and it's irresponsible to suggest otherwise.
@@ColorUp roulette is definitely more predictable, spin the ball 38 times(because there is 38 numbers) and you'll see that 33% of the numbers about 12-14 numbers on average will never show. If you never bet on any of those numbers you lost 0 units on them. If you know what not to bet on it makes it obvious what to bet on :) remember you don't need much of an edge to reverse the odds back into your favor. This can only be done with math. Cheers
@@randy5248 no hindsight needed, we have reliable averages which can be predicted before the game even starts. 24 numbers will show in 38 spins this is written in stone. Cheers
I have one of Frank’s books. It’s a great read. And the 5 count has saved me money on the short shooters. Especially on the $15/min tables that I play on.
Golden Touch Craps says that 57% ( 5.7/10) of all shooters will seven out within 5 rolls?? WELL lets start to win on those 57% of shooters & the other 43% as well. Try The new 5-Count DON'T System and follow the trend of the table. Part of the little three, Theory, logic and trends. MYTHS # 2.The 5-Count System. Enjoy the show: ua-cam.com/video/mYKuSC8oZYA/v-deo.html
Holy Hell, Nick Papagiorgio shooting at the 13 min mark.
That was like every craps scene in a movie filmed by ppl whose vraps knowledge doesn't exceed the come out roll. Absolutely amazing.
Great shirt and hat combo once again! Very professional! It takes a lot of patience to put this type of strategy into practice.
Yes, patience required if your local casino even allows. It is an interesting idea
Also the point was hit (Eight) at the 11:26 mark. The puck should have come off. FYI
Dang it, had so many mistakes in this one and didn’t catch a big one like that 😡
Hey color up! I love your head-to-head system videos. I feel like this one would be an awesome one to go head to head with another traditional system like maybe iron cross or three point Molly. I would love to see that!
I as well
3-point Molly actually beats this strategy using 3x, 4x, 5x odds. 5-Count is not the best mitigation strategy in craps. The title is misleading.
I don't think I would use this method for deciding if I should be betting or not on a particular shooter. I appreciate the idea but I'm pretty sure if we did 1 hour of this as a test we would find it would be a pretty even win to lose ratio or woulda of coulda won ratio. Honestly sometimes my favorite shooters are people who have never threw dice before or even know how to play the game properly. I rather gamble on that fun then waiting a bunch of rolls where I could be winning. If I lose on that gamble OH WELL.. crap. :)
Thanks Jeremy. Like the strategy for randoms as well as regular shooters who go cold for a bit (happens to all of us). As an alternative, sometimes I'll go with a quick come bet on a cold shooter or table, then increase if it gets hot. It's also a good hedge on point-7 streaks.
You definitely need to be counting all rolls if doing 5 count method. The supposed 8.5 rolls average per shooter is based on including all the craps numbers, so there is no reason not to count those. If you're waiting for a 5 count on strictly box number hits, you'll very frequently just lose your bets as soon as you make them. Whereas on a true 5 count you could've already made some profit hits, and regressed to guarantee profit before the inevitable 7.
common sense but hey...who said craps is common or makes sense. thanks for that spot on reminder vic.
this was my bread and butter back in the day, now, I prefer place bets
I have a lots of Frank's books. He was influenced by the late great Captain of Craps. Use the five count method a lot. Saved me money a lot. On cruise ships they take steps to discourage you to play this way.
This is an excellent strategy for a "cold" table. If I only had a dollar for all the times I have PSO or bet on a shooter that has PSO....I'd have enough to play high limit craps for a while!
I play both the Pass/Don’t and put odds on the Don’t Pass for the first few rolls to see if they 7 out early. Once I see they have a rhythm going them i put the odds on the Pass Line and make whatever Place bets I think are in their wheelhouse
So I think a lot of people are missing the actual point of this strategy. It's to keep you at the table longer so that you have a better chance of running into a streak shooter, nothing more, nothing less. By avoiding the rollers who 7 out within those 5 rolls you're saving your bankroll and seeing more shooters. The more shooters you see the better odds of one of them having that random 15 roll or higher run.
It's been a while since I used this method, but there were several times where I outlasted every person at the table that I started with. Sometimes I then ended up ahead, and other times I just continued to slowly lose my bankroll, but regardless I would have busted out much sooner had I not been playing this strategy.
Yep, not every shooter will make it past 5 rolls, but every long roll always rolls at least 5 rolls
Great video Color Up. FYI, @ the 11:35 mark, you hit the Point (8) but didn't flip the puck to Off (the first 8 was rolled @ the 10:00 mark as roll # 1 in the "5 Count Method"). On the next roll, you rolled another 8 which would have established a new Point as it was technically the Come Out roll. In this instance, you still would've paid the 8 as that was a Come bet from the previous roll, but you next four rolls were all 11's (which you paid out because you thought the puck was Off). In reality, you would have never been paid on those four 11's as you already established a Point (unless you were playing another Come bet ... but I don't think you were) and then proceeded to roll two back to back 7's thereafter.
Yeah, big mistake I missed.
@@ColorUp Yea I caught this immediate and then watched it played out so I could see if it would of even made a difference. It did make a difference but really the point of the video was to explain a strategy for deciding if you should bet on a shooter or not. We can't prove it's any better then any other method without multiple hours over multiple days, but it is a strategy none the less. And in all fairness, when I "practice" I often do the payouts for a point hit first and forget to turn off the puck. I tried turning off the puck first and then I forget the payouts. There's no way to make it prefect when you are 1 person filling in for 3 dealers while practicing.
Right you are J and J.
I’ve read his book and when I first started playing, I followed his advise, actually, when I play, I like to watch rollers ahead of me before I place a bet. That was long before current conditions, so I understand how that might not be a good way to play now days. Once I do place my bets, I would play like that until I paid for my bets on the table, and I’d pull them down. I would do this until I had doubled I buy in. I’m not always that disciplined now days. I haven’t played since prior to the craziness started and I really want to get back to the casinos SO badly! We have a grand baby coming in a few months so we are abstaining from what I call the dirtiest place you can probably go, even in good conditions. Dirty, maybe but it’s still my favorite place to go and have fun. Q
great video. EVERYTHING works....sometimes. EVERYTHING doesn't work...sometimes. the trick is to get lucky and then get out. good hunting boys.
I have heard and have seen people betting with this idea; it's weird to me. There is so many different mathematic forces at play in Craps like you mentioned Jeremy. 8.5 rolls is the average, and this 5 count method doesn't start til you make a point. Couple that with a Seven rolling 1in 6 rolls on average; this idea is going to propagate a whole lot more quick losses than anything else in the long run. I have to imagine this idea was dreamt up by someone who thinks things are less than random. Thanks Jeremy for rolling out tons of different ways to play.
Yes, this is an idea from the dice control community. They think guys like me are bad at rolling the dice. They aren’t wrong, my avg is probably 8.5 😉
@@ColorUp mine too, must be a coincidence
The most common mistake of the 5 count is that you start counting once a box number is hit and after the 4th count you must have a box number. Onecthe 5th count is hit, you put only 1 come bet with odds and that is it. You will have to wait awhile for it to hit.
After the 5 count ends with a box number your first bet is a Come bet. If the 5 count ends with the shooter hitting the point your first bet is on the pass line. Taking as much in odds as you feel comfortable with. After your Come bet travels to the point place another Come bet. repeat 2 times or more if you feel you can handle it.
That's the way learned to do it last weekend GTC.
What is the best betting method to use on yourself? Pass line with odds, place the 6 & 8 and buy the 4 & 10 when vig paid only on wins?
Or pass line with odds, place the 6 & 8 and then only make come bets with odds?
Thx!
@nastynate7913 passline with max odds or whatever your comfortable doing. Come bets with odds, to a max of 3 numbers, or if your again comfortable them more numbers. Using the Come betting. Hope that helps you
standing next to a guy in the flamingo on the strip 22 years ago. he rolled five yo's in a row. made around $4k. i made about $30.00 cause i don't have any balls lol. my wife was standing behind me and witnessed it. the table was screaming so loud it seemed half the casino was there. good times had by all. true story. honest!! i am 73 and never lie.
I would have been right next to you with $30 profit ha
another great Craps Story! One of the reasons to play Craps!
I have seen this method. Also seen the take 3 -4 Hits and then. Go off strategy. Which I believe you did in another video. Not personally a fan of either. But I do understand the pain of losing 64/96/162 across bets in one roll. I think my strategy is from try to follow whatever the shooter is doing. If I see a lot of points made I will play line with odds. If I don’t I might go across. Etc.
good concept, be some horn bets slapping down with that streak of 'yo's
Which begs the question: what’s a random roller? We’ve all seen “dice setters” go one and out followed by random rollers who go 12, 15, 17 or more rolls. Sometimes the table will see a long roller and then, as if on queue, the next 5 or 6 shooters go no more than five rolls. It can be a rewarding and unforgiving game all at the same time. It really just matters how you line up your bets. Thanks for the insight.
I would say a random roller is someone that picks up the dice, shakes them and then tosses them.
Then you have a rhythm roller. That is someone who has a very specific routine that usually also involves setting the dice to a specific set before their toss.
Then you have wannabe dice controllers, these are people who've seen a few UA-cam videos, set the dice and try to mimic what they see actual dice controllers do, but do not do any type of practice or haven't taken any type of courses.
Then you have actual dice controllers, people who take it very seriously who practice for hours on end to have their throw be consistent and their results repeatable.
Most people that you see setting the dice are probably in the wannabe category. But if you get at the table with someone who's truly good at dice control, someone like a Howard Newman, Dominic Loriggio, Frank Scobleti, Stanford Wong... These guys are the best of the best, and roll with them or watch them roll and you will see consistently longer rolls and repeatable results.
Like anything, there are levels of skill. Those guys are major league talent and treat it like a sport. They practice, tweak, chart results, alter their throws, learn new things and improve their craft.
Most other people who practice it are minor league, little league or softball league talent. Sure they practice and are ok at it... But they don't take it as seriously as the best of the best.
There's also natural talent that comes into play.
Sorry for the LONG ass post. But a random roller is someone who just grabs the dice and tosses them without much thought 🤣
The Captain's definition of a random roller is someoone who doesn't take care with the dice (setting, soft toss w/repeated same motion, etc. In the case you described in your question, the 5-Count would save you alot of money. In craps, you need to protect your bankroll until that long roll (12, 15, 17 or more as you say) comes along. The 5-Cou nt will protect you till you get to that long roller, whether he or she is a Dice controller or just a plain ol' Random roller.
Interesting strategy!
But I would try a 2-count and then start betting to avoid the PSO's!
The 5-count has been mathematically proven to work over long computer simulations to eliminate the short rollers at the presentages presented tin this video..
If the dealers don’t like you waiting, simply put a bet on Pass and Don’t Pass while you’re waiting to see if the shooter is hot.
Assuming shooter wins a quick point (less than 5 rolls) and rolls 7s on come out. Do you start count over or ignore them?
I believe you ignore, and stick with the shooter as those are technically winning rolls
If you get casino pressure for standing around waiting, just make a pass line bet and continue to wait. I know that's Not part of the strategy but neither is getting kicked off the table.
if they will let you, pass and don't pass together, then only risk is the 12
Nobody has the patience for this kind of strategy but great for getting free drinks at the table
A couple gurus teach it so 🤷♂️
@@ColorUp nobody has the patience and that is what the Casino is counting on. No patience is to lose more money. The 5-Count is designed to save and protect your bank roll until you get to that long roller....
Given that the average roll is 8.5, it does not make any statistical sense to hold out until the end of the average roll so you can catch the 7. I have also seen strategies where people suggest only staying in for 5 rolls, which makes more statistical sense for dodging 7s, but cuts you out on the longer rolls that would be making you money. The only advantage this system has is that you have your money on the table less of the time overall which reduces your overall negative expectation.
Right, less betting = saving money.
When I play the Five Count, I place a come bet on the 4th going into the 5th roll, then a second come bet on the 5th going into the sixth roll. Then proceed with a traditional dealer John strategy, though, at this point I do take at least 1x odds on my comes.
Smart strategy when dealing with the 5-count. I'm adopting it ☺
@@Dennisp421 I have used this too.
What dice set were you using for those Yos? :-D
6/5 5/6 😉
You should do a video about dice setting. Not dice control... Just set the dice and toss it normally and see how that works!
I set my dice to all sevens showing on the come out roll and all hard ways once I make a point. I can’t tell you how many times I have gone on to roll 20+ times doing this. I just throw the dice like I normally would but pick them up with my just my fingers touching the dice. I started doing this several years ago. One time in particular, I was at the four queens and rolled 30 times and the whole table passed the dice back to me. I wasn’t quite as successful that time but did roll 17 more time before I sevened out. It was so fun and we all made good money. One guy tipped me $50.00 which I gave half back to the dealers.
Just observation many rolls including yours, it's probably most advantageous to start betting after the shooter doesn't point seven out. But there is no fool proof way.
Question so when someone does place bet doesn't it make your profit way smaller when a person put chips on two or more numbers. Instead of just doing place bet on one number. Please forgive this question as I haven't played craps before. Here I'm talking about after a point is made.
You have more at risk to losing to 7….you also have more dice combinations to win. That’s the trade off. for instance place betting the 5 for $10 wins $14 with 4 ways to win and 6 ways to lose. If you place the numbers 5,6,8,9 you have $44 at risk to only win $14, but you have 18 ways to win and 6 ways to lose.
@@ColorUp Cool thanks that makes sense
Great thinking ! I like this strategy brother!
I gotta good strategy if you don't mind rolling it out brother! If you would like to do it send me your email
I have a form “dice advice “ on my website www.colorup.club you can submit there
@@ColorUp thanks man
@@ColorUp I sent it in ! Waylons Inside! Thanks again
I think that "the 36 hop along" would have done fantastic here until you nailed the 4 in row yoh's. On my count, it made $490 profit in about 10 minutes. Not normal ( like those yoh's), but it was a nice streak.
Dude I had to look that one up. That makes my sphincter pucker.
Question about terminology please: what do you mean by "random roller"?
I'll assume you mean, just some random person shooting, but want to clarify it doesn't mean something else. Thanks!
Im using the dice controllers terminology here, calling those that don’t set and try to control the dice as “random shooters” They assume “random shooters” who just shake and toss somehow have worse results. I think this 5 count method can be applied to everyone though.
@@ColorUp Yes it can. It protects you even against the Dice Controller whho is having a bad day or not getting it done. Hell, I've even used the 5-Count to protect me against myself!🤐🤔🥴🥴🥴
When i random roll im always throwing 7 s with in the 1st to 5th roll. Can anything be deduced from this? I stopped ramdom. I seem to do almost the same with controlled. Hence i never bet on myself & always look for the ones rolling good. I do seem to see shills come in to play to stimulate the table then they run off.
Math says the 7 should roll every 6 rolls. So to see half rolls under 6 is perfectly normal.
Thank you
Hi, this is Classical Pipes. I have uploaded all my old craps videos onto this channel. I had to redo my Classical Pipes channel due to youtube monetization rules against tobacco. It is now a cooking channel. My old craps videos now have their own channel. Thanks.
Hey, always loved your stuff. When I started you were one of few that had any videos on the topic.
@@ColorUp Thanks man. Yes I only made those videos because there wasn't much on youtube at the time. However when I moved in 2015 I couldn't take my craps table. I keep all the chips and everything. Keep up the good work. Your doing great with 60k subs just on craps.
Interesting strategy 5 count, but I can't wait when I'm at the craps table. I have to have action every roll.
The casino LOVES the craps player that just has to have action every roll.
I used to wait 3-5 rolls before betting. Of course that was before the pandemic and you could wait before betting.
Yeah, most places are going to frown on it if someone waiting
Can you recommend good places for Craps in Reno?
Peppermill, Atlantis, GSR, I like so far. The Row, connected Caesars properties downtown almost always have only $25 tables 😡 no opinion about the other casinos as yet.
Atlantis and Nugget generally 5 to 10 all the time. Atlantis has 5 dollar table 7 days a week but it's a "divided" table meaning half of it is 5 dollars and the other half is 10 dollars. IMO Atlantis is hands down the best place to play craps in Reno. Dealers and pit bosses very friendly.
I'm going Wednesday to the craps table.
Have fun and good luck on coloring up
Interesting but i think its waiting to long to make a bet. By the time you do your at the amount of rolls were the shooter will typically 7 out
Could be, every roll is independent. may end on next roll or continue.
just think of money you could save with a 10 count where do they get this stuff
Exactly! Yeah, just stay at home.
That's your first video that you didn't 7 out in the first 5 rolls! :)
I’ve seen crazy things, don’t remember YO YO YO YO though ha
I always laugh at people who dump on "random shooters" and fancy themselves as "dice control shooters" it's been my experience that most people might TRY to utilize dice control but don't actually pull it off and their dice hitting the face wall turn them into a "random shooter" anyways. I like to compare it to pitching in baseball, in that it's an art form. It is possible for people to throw an off speed/ breaking pitch. But to do it successfully and consistently is a lot more rarer than people fancy it to be.
If it could be done consistently, the casino would pull the game. They are happy to allow players to try though 😉
@@ColorUp yup. nothing is funnier than a guy who looks really serious setting dice, everyone loads up the table anticipating the second cumming and bingo he 7's out and i'm the only one who cashes in with my don't. i know i'm a sadistic pos but hay...it's gambling and life is a cut throat business adventure. keep up your stuff color up.
I bet on every random shooter from the 1st roll (no waiting) but I do avoid the pass line (if the table is "cold") & I
just start out with a single 6 place bet, Then rack the $ if it hits, If it hits again, I add a 8 place bet. and just keep collecting . low risk, & if the roll goes & goes I make some money. the longest random roll I ever witnessed was 62 rolls, & I've seen many "randoms" in the high 20's. One guy who never played craps before was next to me & his 1st time up rolled 4 yo's in a row on the come out, I told him to bet the yo after his 1st yo & he refused, finally after his 3rd, He put $20 on the yo & rolled a 4th yo, making $300 He was hooked on craps after that. Also, his 1st roll was around 20 rolls. Oh yeah, & that guy that rolled 62 rolls made 5 points, rolled zero 7's the entire roll (no come out 7's) blew my mind. sad thing is, there was just myself & the roller, so the casino was lucky that it was not a full table.
This is probably why Casinos don't seem to give Dice Controllers any heat these days... They used to get heat 20 years ago. I remember one time a was shooting on a Tub table and the dealer said to me "Didn't anyone ever tell you that you can't set the dice?' I answered him right in stride and said"I don't play craps at casino's who don't let me set the dice" and when right on rolling for 40 minutes!
"Everything is independent"
> Presents strategy that treats rolls as not independent events.
I present it all. Viewers can decide for themselves
@@ColorUp I should say, I do like your videos and am subscribed, I just find it funny presenting both gambler's fallacy and statistical concepts.
Just giving the viewers what they want. Most players believe in superstitions, gambler fallacy etc. :)
Unfortunately, this is not the best way to avoid random rollers during a session. I've spent more than 200,000 rolls analyzing 12 different well known strategies head to head. In my session rolls, what is very sad is that the 3-point molly with 3x,4x,5x odds actually beat the 5-count head to head 2 out of 3 sessions and I hate both strategies to be honest. If you want the best strategy that hands down wins all of the time, I'm more than happy to share it. On a $500 bankroll, the strat I use averages $736 on a full table. Not to mention the 5-count is the most boring betting strategy of all time. You sit forever twiddling your thumbs to finally get in the game and then you can hit a 7-out right after making your first 1 or 2 bets. If you want to maximize this strategy against random rollers you might as well bet $0 on them all of the time and keep your hands in your pockets. Success! All strategies have their issues though and this one does as well. I don't like the title of your video. It is NOT the best betting method for random rollers at a craps table. That is a very personal and subjective title and completely untrue.
Titles are to attract viewers. No such thing as a best strategy, not even a winning strategy exists despite your claim you can share one that “wins all of the time” All strategies win sometimes, no strategy wins all the time. You can submit strategies on my dice advice form at www.colorup.club
After 5 rolls without the 7 showing up, doesn't that suggest the 7 is mathematically due? After all Mr. 7 shows up on average of every 6 rolls. To assume that five rolls without a 7 showing up constitutes a hot roller is to read the mind of the dice. But the dice are as brainless as my uncle Pete.
While on the other hand, my aunt Beatrice will tell your future for $10.
That's my ride, gotta go.
You are correct the dice have no mind, and also don't know what has rolled in past. A 7 is no less due after 100 rolls than after 6 rolls. Every roll the 7 has a 1 in 6 chance. Due number theory is often referred to as the Gamblers Fallacy.
Except all those 11's wouldn't have paid and only one of the 7's would have been on the come out, because you rolled the point earlier ('8') and didn't turn the puck off at 11:27 mark
Yep, bummer of a mistake I missed
@@ColorUp But…you would have moved the Come bet up to the 8 and paid your Place bet, then turned the puck off. You then roll an 8 the very next roll to re-establish the point as 8, and you would have paid the Come bet. I assume you would have then placed the 8 and had a Come bet in play…so you would have been getting paid on all those 11’s on the Come bet instead of the Line! So the mistake in the end wasn’t all that bad I suppose.
Wow, thanks for figuring that all out
There is zero validity to the five count. The dice have no memory so you can get hit on the sixth roll or seventh. Meanwhile a random shooter might throw three sixes in the first five rolls which you could have been on. Here's my way. The shooter throws two inside numbers..the come out and then the 2nd. Go 66 inside for two rolls and down.
No validity to 5 count, would also mean no validity to playing two rolls and down. 1 in 6 chance the 7 appears on each and every roll, even the first two :) also as soon as you put your bets back up on next shooter, same chance applies.
Ok. According to the Wizard of Odds, the average roll is 8.5255....So if you count to five rolls, you are leaving, on the average, 3 rolls before the 7. Yeah..it's an average which means wild swings either way or just a flat situation. I prefer to watch the table before I bet on randys..and the five count can come in handy if you notice sevens closing in..and you bet the don'ts. But random shooters who come out with inside numbers..or early repeaters..I will give them a shot if the table isn't showing sevens within a couple rolls.
After 8.5 rolls you are no closer or further from 7 out. Every roll is independent and probability resets. But for every 15+ roll there are certainly plenty of rolls that are under 5
as a normal person this strategy makes no sense, as a craps player awesome
haha
I'll stick with the Iron Cross. Thank you very much!!
I like the iron cross as well!! I jumped into it after a 5 count. Works pretty well for me 🤟 What do you think?
@@IMove2Earn this is my go to plan. I tend to watch shooters first and get a feel for the table. Look at the chip stacks, how the dice are being thrown, and what numbers are frequently showing up.
They recommend betting thru the come
I know craps players are superstitious but this seems dumb to me. People can play how they want though so God bless.
🤷♂️ well anytime you are not betting you are not losing, but only benefit I can see
Lol more rolls the closer you are to the 7 not a great system
No such thing as being closer to 7. Every roll is independent and a 1 in 6 chance of 7 showing.
Craps Rule #1: Repeat after me. THE DICE HAVE NO M-E-M-O-R-Y. A shooter surviving a five count has proven NOTHING! It's no better or worse than an 8 or 10 count. The next roll is an INDEPENDENT EVENT. Same is true when pressing up your bets after a 12 count. Next roll is INDEPENDENT of EVERYTHING that has occurred previously. I never ceased to be amazed at how people can accurately quote the specific odds of any craps bet on the table and then actually believe as if a roll count some how affects those odds.
Craps Rule #2: There is NO such thing as playing with "house money." If you win a bet and are paid off, it is IMMEDIATELY YOUR MONEY. It is YOUR decision whether to rack it up, cash it in or re-wager it on another bet of some fashion. One the one hand, I can understand why losing any profit over and above your buy in "stings less," but, on the other hand, I'm not certain why it stings less at all IF your objective was to actually MAKE MONEY. If you rack up $500 in profit and give it all back you've completely failed in your objective.
Most gamblers know the two “rules” you stated but don’t care. They are gambling after all 🤷♂️
I enjoy the content on this channel, but c'mon now. There is no such thing as a "random roller" vs a "skilled shooter". It's all just probability and blind luck. The shooter, the vibe, and all that kind of stuff has no bearing on any of the outcomes, and it's irresponsible to suggest otherwise.
There is no best method just have fun or play roulette where its extremely predictable
Yep, no best method, have fun is great advice. Roulette is no more predictable though
@@ColorUp roulette is definitely more predictable, spin the ball 38 times(because there is 38 numbers) and you'll see that 33% of the numbers about 12-14 numbers on average will never show. If you never bet on any of those numbers you lost 0 units on them. If you know what not to bet on it makes it obvious what to bet on :) remember you don't need much of an edge to reverse the odds back into your favor. This can only be done with math. Cheers
@@trellw21 with math? It can only really be done with hindsight, which doesn't work in a negative expectation random game.
@@randy5248 no hindsight needed, we have reliable averages which can be predicted before the game even starts. 24 numbers will show in 38 spins this is written in stone. Cheers
Horrible strategy
This seems like a good strat for online casino craps