Disgust: The gateway emotion for healing toxic shame
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- Опубліковано 2 сер 2024
- In this video, I cover two key concepts on TOXIC SHAME from two of my mentors-Peter Levine (founder of Somatic Experiencing) and Kathy Kain (founder of Somatic Practice). In short-you were never bad, or worthless, and there is a way to heal. You just have to be willing to “smell and taste the dead rat.” Enjoy, friends.
► How toxic shame creates the fallout we call depression
irenelyon.com/2017/09/14/toxi...
► Why healthy shame is good for us and toxic shame isn't.
• Why healthy shame is g...
► Shame. The Healthy Kind. The Toxic Kind.
• Special Topic Lecture:...
► Understanding the difference between healthy shame and toxic shame. Interview with Seth.
• Understanding the diff...
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My website is a wealth of information, free resources, and information on how to start this work, so here it is one more time: irenelyon.com
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Shame is not just ridicule- verbal abuse - as it is being excluded, not given a voice, not listened to and essentially not welcomed in the family. That not welcomed means that I don’t have a right to be here. It is a message that extinguishes identity and hope.
Shame is a self identify that forms due to the things you mentioned. It is a core wound of "I am bad" vs I have made a bad choice, etc.
It makes the person feel to their core, they aren't good enough, unworthy.
Their whole sense of self comes from this wounded core.
Unfortunately, when this isn't held for oneself is that a person cannot heal.
It hurts. However, it is essential to bring compassion. It's very hard, because shame doesn't want to be seen.
The avoidance of shame creates self sabotaging behaviors, that unfortunately perpetuate the shame core wound. To be able to tend to, look at, shame, it can be excruciatingly painful to witness...it can feel like a double bind. Why would we want to look at, sit with, such a depth of shame, we want to get away. However, the only way healing can happen, is to hold the shame wound, for our inner child. We have to show up, as no one else has before.
I’m sorry- it’s a horrible feeling. My brother and his wife and kids all have their birthday within a few weeks of each other. I went round to his house and put a huge pile of presents on his kitchen table, and looked up to see a Happy Birthday banner to their joint party that I hadn’t been invited to. I felt like such a chump.
Well said! I felt all of this. When I was describing to my therapist how I learned how to eat, drink, walk, and breathe silently, she said, “It sounds like you weren’t allowed to exist.” Dang. That’s definitely how it felt, and some part of me still carries that around.
THis is so right on. Exactly. THe problem is fully allowing oneself to go back into that space even though (and at the same time) we walk around half realizing we are in that state. There is a lot of repression involved and sometimes often there is a block to accessing the whole of it.
@@evakatz6351I’m so sorry- also keep in mind , no telling what the nature of that “party “ was - either way, you have nothing to be ashamed of, you are good kind and so generous- don’t let that go bc of hurtful even if neglectful humans
I see healing toxic shame practically as an act of Exorcism. I have no other word to describe the intensity and insidiousness of it.
Well put
@@starlight4036 Otto F. Kernberg suggested that narcissistic disorders of character are foundation of most mental health problems. If we understand disturbances in narcissism we would probably find a theory of everything
YT Richard Grannon & Prof. Sam Vaknin about Fantasy
This isn't wrong. Proverbs 18:3 (msg) says 'When wickedness arrives, shame’s not far behind;' overcoming shame means removing wickedness, aka exorcism.
@@mapsdot9223 In the macho football world you never want to act weak or look weak. So whenever I would feel fear I would be very shaming of it, “Get out of here”. After college it would all caught up to me and I would have all kinds of panic and anxiety. It works for a while but you just create more exiles. Relate to these parts like a good captain or loving parent. “It's ok to be scared and I still love you.”
🟥 IFS & Tanya: Dr. Richard Schwartz & Rabbi YY Jacobson
Wow. I recently had my first orgasm and I felt a huge burst of emotional pain come out of my heart. I’ve never given birth but that’s what it felt like physically. Like a birthing of demons
I never forgot the shock I felt when my mum looked at me with contempt and said to her friend, right infront of me, that my eyes had no soul just like my Dad. I was more shocked at the fact that she looked at me snd spoke of me as if I was not a person snd I was not present. I never forgot the coldness that ran through my being. I understood over the years why my Dad had such problems and also why I feel so dehumanised and not worthy of being alive.
Sounds like she was projecting her own negative feelings about herself onto you. You did not deserve that.
You’re worthy. You’re enough. Your life is precious.
Projection- she had no soul with a shameless comment
@@ketherwhale6126 Perhaps. But the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. She likely embodies those, or at least a few, characteristics in which she hates about her mum. Likely without knowing.
@@manher4335
Yes, that’s the tricky part in all of this……seeing how we have some of these similar types of behaviors. It’s shadow work-searching for what about ourselves is hidden from view so we can heal on a deep deep level. There’s nothing like the healing of shame that comes from pulling out our own ways of dysfunction and looking straight at them. And then the deep healing comes. Unfortunately, many people get stuck in the blame game and do not progress past that.
I dedicated time to healing about 5 years ago at 18 years old - in the last month I have realized the root of so many other symptoms: anxiety and depression cycle, ocd, pain, jaw pain, muscle tension, bad posture, isolation was toxic shame - I have been avoiding shame my whole life - once I found a healthy way to face it everything change I’m so serious. stay open to the idea that you are at your core just like every other person. the shaming in your head isn’t you and has nothing to do with you. The feelings that come up have nothing to do with you. This is toxic shame. Nothing more nothing less. I feel like so much of chronic pain, depression, anxiety, BPD, NPD have to do it with shame. Let it out in the light stay present and connected to your body while feeling it and observe don’t absorb the hateful thoughts towards yourself.
Great comment my dude.
I have known I have shame for a very long time and yet I’ve never healed it. I don’t know how you did it?? I know I have shame and I feel it every day but nothing changes?
So how did you work out posture issues ? I have always struggled with them
Hi all!
Here is the main video that helped me manage / handle shame attacks or the overwhelming feelings that come with it:
"Self Compassion: An Antidote For Shame" by Christopher Germer
I want to add: I haven't gotten rid of shame, but rather changed my relationship to it and am guiding my body to get used to this safer, new relationship with it. That said, with this new relationship, I tend to slowly feel shame less often and less intensely, but when I first started, it hit me really hard. So don't beat yourself up if things get worse before they get better.
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For posture I do slow workouts that don't increase cortisol: pilates, slow controlled neck/shoulder movements and walks outside. I take a walk outside everyday. I highly recommended walking outside as much as possible. Nature offers an external peace when the internal is chaos.
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MY OWN PERSONAL TIPS BASED ON MY OWN EXPERIENCE:
- form a set of values about humans: all humans deserve food, community, love, shelter, and to be held accountable with self compassion. These are a few of mine. Now that you have them, use these values to guide your actions. If the feeling of shame comes up and symptoms of it like physical pain, ruminating, dissociating occurr. Name the feeling. Do the activity then act only in your values. Know that logically you are not the exception like that logically makes no sense for you to be the one human exempt from said values. It's tough, but you all got it.
I've watched a lot of Irene's videos but this one just made everything click; made my whole life make sense - the 20 years of chronic fatigue syndrome, the shutting down, the trying not to have needs, becoming more and more introverted and isolated, not speaking up for myself, not standing up for myself, not speaking my truth. I feel like watching this video was the moment my true healing could really begin. Like, I've been on a healing journey for 20 years and it starts now.
Hey GoldandPinkLight, Seth here with Team Lyon. That's so awesome!! Really great to hear :) If you would like support in what next steps to take on that journey, this page might be useful... irenelyon.com/new-here
@@IreneLyon Hi Seth! Thank you. Doing 21 day now and looking ahead to SBSM in the fall. Many thanks to you and Irene. 💜
wow - i read your comment and was like "i dont remember commenting on this video"
20 years of chronic fatigue syndrom? I'm so sorry to hear that! I wish you full and complete healing from every physical and psychological and a mix there of issue.
I can SOO RELATE!! Been on the Journey for 57 years! And my Journey starts Now. And now... And NOW!!
Disgust = The thing my mother did that sticks with me the most. She'd say my name in such a way I almost committed suicide over not being able to get that voice out of my head. Such Disgust.
This is intense!
My Father told me hundreds of times with contempt as a small child "You're so full of shit your eyes are brown!" My Mother's emotional abuse and neglect were more insidious..."You're too sensitive!" 'You're so dramatic." in response to my normal need for emotional support or reactions to the abuse. Neither parent was abused in childhood. And, even if they were, it doesn't justify their actions. I WAS abused and it made me MORE sensitive to others, ESPECIALLY children.
Oh wow! My dad would so often tell me "you're so full of shit" whenever I had a different opinion or was basically doing anything he didn't agree with. I'm sorry you had to deal with that. Sometimes I wonder if my chronic constipation has anything to do with it, as odd as that might sound.
@@erinm3567 I wouldn't doubt it Erin. They say the subconscious mind (thus, the body) takes things quite literally. I had an Aha! moment in the car the day after writing this. My Father was a character much like Alex Murdaugh and he knew I saw through him from a very young age. He was "full of shit" at every turn and basically projecting/confessing to his very young daughter. My Mom was like Maggie Murdaugh - loved $$$, status and image. My Dad almost killed us all when I was nine and all that proverbial shit hit the fan. Luckily, he collapsed before going through with it. (I messed up his plan by wrangling away and going for help.). Watching the Murdaughs has brought so much to the surface lately. God bless us all 🙏✝️❤️
me too I've been getting the 'you're too sensitive' treatment from my mother for as long as I can remember. often told off for crying, and often asked if I was made out of crystal (nothing could be said or done to me without breaking me).
We sounds like siblings!
@@thanksagainforthetea Great analysis and explains why when I tried to achieve a closer bond with my Mother in healthy ways she would deny me that and say "Well, MY Mother never..." I would "shutty-shutty" (as Lisa A. Romano puts it) because there was no need to try to reason with her, like..."That sounds quite painful, wouldn't you like for us to have things better than that?" It all falls on intentionally deaf ears. Mommy Dearest always knows best! And, that's the point!! Forget doing what's right, what's best, what makes more sense - and you can MOST definitelly forget what brings more joy!!!
Disgust is the externalization of shame and guilt. Even though I myself am a survivor of childhood abuse, I often feel disgust and irritation at those survivors who seem masochistic. those who let others abuse them, and dont value good people.
The "bad meat" thing reminds of being told "You're so spoiled" when I acted out, or when I was given something/treated nice. It was used to either communicate that my needs were not valid, or that I was not deserving of receiving good things.
wow "not deserving to receive nice things." this resonated with me deeply as I experienced very similar things and now I can clearly see how it is correlated to my relationship with money. thank you for sharing!
I love “remember what I did for you” and it’s ONE thing they did for you over 20 years ago. Normal things like hosting a baby shower for you. The scoreboard comes out.The guilting never stops.
@@KM-nd6wjsadly I found myself guilting out my daughter. I have no idea where to bring to heal that relationship. I thought I was a protective and loving mother. I have since found out that I was not good enough in many ways. Best of luck
My parents mocked and ridiculed us all the time. We were told we were ‘too soft’ if we got upset. It was soo pervasive I thought it was normal until I started to notice that my friends parents didn’t seem to behave that way, they didn’t seem to treat their kids with contempt. I’m in my 40s now with two young children and am determined i don’t pass this toxic shame into them.
Thankyou for this video. I cried ( I do this a lot lately) it’s such a relief to realise I’m not crazy or weak or stupid. Bless you x
Thanks so much for being here Lisa
holy shit i wasnt the only one????
Every time I watch your videos, I get soooo tired and want to take a nap. I mean that as a compliment on behalf of my nervous system 😂 it's so relieving to feel seen and heard and validated by you.
Sometimes it’s over correction. High expectations, impatience and perfection expected by the parent that is chronic. Dismissive ness, down playing problems, not listening and lack of support in a sensitive way. This adds up over time, as the kid feels no good and becomes invisible. In order to cope the kid “ disappears”. She didn’t actually come out and call names and constantly admonish. There was a lot of disappointment and over correction and accusations of doing something or saying it the way it was definitely not intended - causing self questioning and self doubt to the point of gaslighting and shame about the self. She was projecting what she does or did on to me. I constantly questioned how I came across- was I really those things? It’s very insidious.
If I had a superpower, it would be invisibility. If no one can see you, they can't attack you.
Yep
Wow I could of written that Op.
@@pamelamccarthy1412that's a trauma driven wish. That's an inner child crying out.
Humans want to be seen/known/understood/accepted. This is what love is
Think of a wish that can reach beyond the trauma wish. Otherwise, if your trauma is running the show, your wishes included...the power is given to your trauma, and those who hurt you. You hurt yourself, by living those ways do thinking out. When you can heal beyond that, it's powerful.
I can hear my mother’s, father’s, and brother’s words ‘that’s disgusting’. Said some many times and still said. I’ve had to go ‘no contact’ in order to break free from their energy and heal on a deeper level. Thank you for the amazing work and teaching you do, Irene. It has helped me greatly. ❤
This explains why I sometimes find myself struggling not to vomit--literally dry-heaving--after feeling a wave of intense of emotion or after recalling certain memories. Shame.
This one strikes a chord for me. I was my mothers target "who do you think you are? what makes you think you're so special? Its all your fault". The affect, the impact has been lifelong. Powerful image, the rotten meat. Thank you for the work you do to help us heal our wounds.
Yes...How dare you/ who do you think you are/ horrible pronouncements made to me as well.🥺
To anyone struggling with your toxic shame on the other side is a life so rich and amazing that I can't believe it exists. struggling with the memories and pain of humiliation and being attacked is psychological torture. but on the other side is a life that is so rich and fulfilling that it's all worth it. Keep going!!!!!! It's not your fault. you are just born here. return it back to the universe... return to sender.
I remember the first time I felt "ashamed of my shame." I'd done something bad and my father was so angry with me. I was literally cowering in fear and I'll never forget the look of disgust that came over his face. He said, "I can't stand to look at you." I think I'm just now realizing the impact of that event. I now believe he suffered with toxic shame as well and didn't know any other way at that time in his life.
Been there too. That seems to be the way.
Yes, I remember that I responded back to my parents after they shamed/ridiculed me and they very, very angrily snapped back at me with "how dare you speak back to me..." such crap. One of my earliest memories, I must have been about 4yo, was after my family had a major argument and I packed my little backpack (with unnecessary things of course) and I ran away. I only got about 2 blocks away but my mother grabbed me and I was shamed and ridiculed yet again. Message was...I HAVE to put up with everything they do. I am not an individual. I suppressed from that point on. Needless to say I have worked very hard to shed light on everything within. Disgust is one of them, and for the first time I can remember I actually felt it acutely the last time I saw my parents. I went no contact with them 2 yo. They of course shamed and ridiculed and blamed blah blah. But I just did it anyway. My chronic health issues are getting better the more self empowered I get. Thanks Irene.
Thanks so much for sharing Berlinetta! The lifeforce is strong in you!! Keep rockin it.
Well said!!!
I been studying psychology since the day I figured out there's something wrong and that I have been grown up in an abusive household. I have read tons of articles on toxic shame and watched hours of content but the way you helped me understand it, nobody has drawn my attention that way before. What you're doing and seriously revolutionary in the medicine especially in the area of trauma.
Thanks to all the teachers and healers of this world for helping us 😢
Thank you for describing shame as a physiological response and sensation..
another piece on supporting my inner child and my adult self.
Furthermore, I have always felt my mental state is directly contributing to my fascia, connective tissue, and joint inflammation and pain and sluggish liver. Now that I’m regaining rebalancing releasing and healing my health naturally comes along with it.
Asking myself daily:
“I give permission to deeply and completely love and accept all of myself.”
“I give myself permission to release all energy that is not mine.”
“I recall and reclaim all of my energy.”
This can definitely happen in school. I was the only person of colour in my school and in my whole town. I was shamed, abused and attacked because I was brown, for a decade. I felt like an alien. They told me I was disgusting and dirty. I was spat at, beaten, stabbed and there was no justice. The teachers didn't care. My parents didn't believe me. Eventually as a child I concluded that I must deserve it and this was the way of the world.
Hi Jenova, Seth here with Team Lyon. I'm so sorry to hear you had to live through that. Thanks for sharing your story here. If you feel that this work may be able to help you in some way, I recommend checking out our New Here page and downloading the Field Guide there. irenelyon.com/new-here/
So sorry you had to go through that as a little one 😢
Hoping you have found some (or a lot already 😊) self worth back again. Sending you much love ❤❤
How you were treated was so unacceptable. I was bullied as well, but as a pasty white kid, they found other things to hate about me. I was ugly, flat chested, a whore (5th grade whore? really?). I got kicked in the shins, punched in the head and tummy. I never told anyone. I am just now coming to terms with these painful memories at the age of 50. I wish we would include how to appreciate each others differences in kindergarten, it should be part of the curriculum. All colors and all income level children should be safe at school from each other and from teachers. You never deserved any of this.
That's sad. If that racism was so prevelant in the school, how did your parents avoid it in the town?
@@smegmatic308 They probably experienced the same amount of hate or even worse and we’re so traumatized and overwhelmed by their own struggles that they diminished and neglected their children’s cries for help because they can’t even protect themselves let alone their children.
That’s a tough pill to swallow as a parent. Not feeling able to protect your child, so you can’t guide your child, which is your role as a parent. Very easy for emotionally unintelligent parents dealing with that environment to crack under pressure & neglect their kids or use them as emotional or physical punching bags.
Same way generations can be victim to narcissistic abuse and commit that same abuse/neglect to the next generation. Racial trauma can and is passed down through internalized racism/ neglect of guidance through racist experiences.
Hope this helped🫶🏽
My problem now is dealing with all the suffering I caused myself due to this. Inappropriate behaviors like being easy to sleep with, eating junk food, smoking pot and cigarettes etc... I destroyed my body
Hi Dana, Seth here with Team Lyon. Yes, the behaviors resulting from toxic shame can take a toll for sure, I am familiar with that myself. Thankfully, the human body is very resilient and can recover from a lot when it has the right support! If you feel this work, along with any lifestyle and dietary changes could be helpful, it could be useful to check out Irene's free resources and online programs... irenelyon.com/new-here/
Ok but what are you doing TODAY??? RIGHT NOW is the only thing that matters🥰🥰
You’ve identified self trashing behaviour so now you can stop it and investigate and heal. Well done
No matter what you have done to tear your body down I promise you can start building it back up. Whatever you did in the past doesn't matter anymore. The only thing that matters is TODAY🥰 ( I used meth and heroin for 30 yrs)
Don't include "pot" in your list of vices, just quit the rest
My precious grandmother wrote me today that she doesn't have as much energy these days as she used to. I broke down when I read it and came to a crashing crushing realization that it is shame that has kept me from being around the past year as much as I wanted to be present with her at the time. I am right now trying my best not to regret the time with her I have already lost and just keep moving forward and making that change. I hope and pray it can be enough. I love her more than anything forever and all I can do from now until always is show her that love. I am so sorry.
Call her
Regognisable.. I was eventually able to sincerely look at myself with compassion and accept the situation as well as my part in it. Life isn't perfect and neither are we.. I hope you can find the same compassion and acceptance 🍀
I wasn't ridiculed, I was never told I was rotten but I was told I was paranoid, emotional and sensitive for decades, like it was FACT. I had to accept it or there was a big row I could never win (to deflect away from my parents inability to allow any emotion) and when I challenged that I was called angry, insane, entitled............ to shield them from their defensiveness and their total aversion to reciprocal communication. They have been giving me the silent treatment now for nearly three years. So yeh, the first time I EVER stood firm in my own interpretation of events, I was just written out. I don't feel shame, I feel sad I think, depressed about the situation but not depressed in myself. I will never be allowed back in to the family again unless I play the part of dead meat again. I stumbled my way through this work, I wondered if I'd smell dead rat forever, I was just listening to books about shame on audible and listening to books about healing from trauma and self-compassion.
Thanks for sharing your struggles. Gabor mate has also lot of useful stuff on childhood trauma and behavior. It's a super tough journey and can be lonely. I just started diving deep and can see from early age I developed an anxious avoidant attachment style to survive plus other strategies. So I did't fully trust anybody the last 45 years, was in an alert state and has developed a chronic illness. Much work to do , I hope you find the help and support you need🙏
💜
@@larsstougaard7097 I'm through the worst pain now, still no family, but only a magic wand can fix that!
You do not need to try to get back into that family. They are absolutely nuts. You need to run and STAY as far away as you can. Find genuine people to can see who and what you really are. But most importantly, make sure YOU can see who and what you really are!! You don't have to be a perfect person and even in all the good and bad you are worthy!
@@SusanaXpeace2u sending you good energy 🪄✨️✨️✨️
I think the easiest way to get rid of toxic shame is to give it back to the person who gave it to you. Not in person, but in your own mind/heart.
Some delusional people can't be shamed. Sad but true.
@@thunderpooch That's true. My comment did not mean to attempt to make those people feel shame because, you're right, they can't. We can only make OURSELVES feel less of the shame they put upon us by diverting it back to them, but only IN OUR OWN MIND/HEART.
I kind of feel like they gave me a permanent emotional disability for life and all these youtube videos and therapy sessions are just giving me false hope. Like imagine how cruel it would be to tell a paraplegic they will walk again if they just think enough positive thoughts.
The narcissists took something from me that I will never get back.
That doesn't just go away or fade with time or healing. It's just gone.
Imagine how cruel it would be to tell a child who lost their leg in an accident that with enough self love and self care their leg will grow back good as new and stronger than ever. Imagine how terrible that child would feel thinking they're not doing a good enough job when they never grow their leg back no matter how hard they devote themselves rigorously to all the false hope recommendations of self care journey stuff. Every day they wake up feeling like a failure seeing the same painful leg stump. Instead of doing the kinder thing helping the child face the reality that he will never feel whole again like the other kids because that is the reality but no one wants to be burdened with the task of helping him face the truth that he is just not going to have the same kind of life as others.
That's how I feel watching narcissistic abuse recovery videos and going to therapy.
There is no getting better.
There is no feeling better.
Don't you guys get it yet?
This is it right here.
Like there is no upside to this. Stop trying to make this some sort of spiritual enlightenment path to nirvana.
We are glorifying the process of being abused as if it's something that will lead to some sort of ultimate karmic retribution by liviour best life and forgiving the unforgivable "for ourselves not for them"🙄and all that same nonsense.
There IS NO KARMIC RETRIBUTION! DON'T YOU GET IT YET? THEY WON. Take the L!!! We got screwed over big time and they did outsmart us.
Come on already people stop with the empath labels like we're some sort of mystical beings on some magical Hero's Journey that are special enough to be abused for so long and remain ever compassionate and loving.
Narcissists are scammers, WE FELL FOR IT, END OF STORY. There's nothing special in us that the narcissist saw. They saw us like a pawn shop owner would see a new object to trade and sell like a commodity. They could care less about our empathy. Ugh. The universe doesn't give a sh*t about your empathy and how many times we get conned by psychopaths that appeal to our egos. There's no cosmic reward for your codependent martyrdom. You can stay or leave, live or die an untimely tragic death, be empathetic or apathetic, loving or hateful, either way it does not affect the narcissist or make them sad or sorry for hurting you.
There's no timer that goes off at 30 years of abuse where the universe is like, "Sherry, eh, you know what she's put up with a lot of crap for long enough, let's reward her modest humble approach to life getting beaten down by the narcissists we placed in her path to test her character and integrity by seeing how she reacted to getting betrayed by everyone we set her up in advance to be lead to believe she was supposed to be able to trust!
Guess what Sherry you passed! Here's your reward and now everything will finally be okay!
Um no that's not reality😐.
Yeah some people are just control freaks who want that over you. No one knows what they're doing, so when you do the *wrong* thing it's under a microscope. It's gross, but their obsession is not your responsibility, our responsibility is to "do the work" so we don't feel like we'll ever be compelled to let our actions define us or harm others.
@@PassionateFlower - You know, I was just wondering the same thing the other day. Unraveling the effects of toxic shame might be lifelong. If I may share my story a bit here with you: When many years ago I found some trustworthy people who were more mature overall I decided to entrust them with some of the dirty laundry ( toxic shame ) I endured. Their compassion, empathy, prayer, hugs, counsel were profoundly helpful and hopeful. Some therapy helped. Conscious decisions to begin to not tolerate disrespect helped. Reading "Boundaries" ( Cloud/Townsend) was life-transforming. Holding myself accountable in any way / shape / form "I" was using any bitterness to mentally "get back at" my past enemies was also powerfully helpful and freeing. Hope my story helps encourage you. I get where you're coming from and believe there is progress and healing to be had, though it can take longer than our quick-fix culture allows. Peace and Grace to you.
I was diagnosed with arthritis at age 15. I had been in pain for 2 years before getting medical care & my parents had insurance. When ever I was sick dad (raging alcoholic)always thought I were faking it. Even when the school nurse sent a note home to have my vision checked I had to wait a year for glasses as dad thought I was just "trying to get attention " & threatened to "beat the shit" out of you if the eye doctor found nothing wrong. I'm 64 now and have been unable to work, due to arthritis since I was 39.
My mom was an anxious & timid person. Later turned out to be a massive hoarder. Dad controlled the family with fear & mom did it with shame.
I grew up not being allowed to express emotions. I've always curious if the arthritis was connected to the toxic environment I was raised in.
Linda Tshappat, Jen here from Team Lyon. I'm really sorry to hear that you weren't heard and supported when you were in pain as a kid.
Your question about the connection between your arthritis and the toxic environment is an interesting one. We do find that we can tend to hold a lot to it in the bones when we have early trauma (if you think of an infant in utero and after birth they don't have much other tissue), so it sure sounds like a possibility. It's great that you found your way here, and are learning about this work as it can benefit us at any age.
@@IreneLyon thanks for your response!
Thank you for your work on toxic shame, and the immeasurable impact it has on a healthy life. I have just recently become aware of the impact of contempt in early years, as it came up and literally wiped me out during a visit with my sons family this year. It brought me right into that small devastated little person, ganged up on and shamed. It is the most devastating emotion or experience I've ever experienced. I literally wanted to do anything to get out of that place, and can see why addictions happen for people. Grateful I had studied and commited myself so much to my healing process that I could make it through to the other side. Toxic shame indeed is a somatically held, physiologically painful experience.
Thanks so much for sharing Susan. I'm so glad you have been able to heal!
Oh my god. My entire childhood.
I love how in depth your videos go! My mother used to make faces showing disgust whenever she wanted to put someone in the wrong to mask her b*s*, it makes perfect sense now!
When I was 14, we were moving to a house directly across the street from a grocery store. I said excitedly that maybe I could get a job there when I turned 16. My dad looked at me with a mocking look on his face that I could never be able to do that. The memory of his face is etched in my mind still at 58. It makes me feel sick. I internalized that and never thought again of that job I could get. My mental health was down the toilet. I still feel shame about my panic attacks I had back then.
Hi Bonnie, Seth here with Team Lyon. Sorry to hear that! Yes, those imprints can last for so long and affect us so deeply. The good news - we can heal! This work can help. If you feel drawn to exploring it I recommend starting here... irenelyon.com/new-here/
@@IreneLyon Thanks! I'll take al look.
My panic attacks are when men question my existence one dude in motorcycle class got upset I wasn't younger and had kids like I was all kinds of f up it was so anxiety inducing I couldn't do a thing except want too fight dude the whole x wasted alot of money cuz dude kept telling me too grow up like mf I'm grown and it just every time I'd say do anything it was mocking me no job no school just empty he'd say like this loser ...me and I was like dude I'm just wanting too ride it was pathetic dropping the bike flipping the bike almost just f that class I aced my other class people are well people I hope that dude gets road rash for ego points cuz I'm immature.
Lots of toxic shame here so watching this explains the connection with dry heaving as this comes up for me, pardon the pun! I'm experiencing more shaming from others so this video could help me notice and be more present when it happens and maybe the feelings and emotions that usually arise could also join this moment and just be with it instead of taking over or being pushed down, the message within could have its voice in a more spacious and present way. Who knows what'll follow! I love this stuff, makes me feel connection 🙏🌱🎆🦉🕊
Hi, Irene. I absolutely love your info and the videos you create.
This one, in particular, really drew me in. I worked as one of the psychotherapists for almost 6 years with the John Bradshaw center for Co-dependency.
As you may know, his primary focus for therapeutic change was his unique approach and understanding of the term he coined as "toxic shame".
We were trained to assist our patients to heal and recover from the childhood trauma they suffered, anchored in their emotional and somatic experiences of toxic shame.
I love that you differentiate between healthy and toxic shame. This is extremely important to clarify.
Through coming to understand the categories of emotions, we simplified our work and utilized various modalities of treatment to accomplish that necessary recovery.
I hope you, and others, begin to understand that disgust is part of the spectrum of shame, as is shyness, humiliation, or embarrassment. It is not, of itself, a primary emotion.
As many of our linguistic labels ignore, some of the terms we use, that suggest a single, discrete emotional experience, is really a combined, multifaceted feeling.
Again, thank you for your hard work and deep understanding. You are providing an essential understanding that facilitates recovery for us all.
Hi zenman52, Jen here from Team Lyon. It sounds like you have a lot of experience learning about and working with shame, and toxic shame.
I want to differentiate here in the nervous system work we view many experiences through the lends of physiologic response, and less so through the lends of primary and secondary emotion.
Looking through the lends of physiology, we do find that disgust is it's own response, separate and distinct from shame (both healthy and toxic).
This is the best content for starters in healing. Making space is soo key
So well done, Irene. Thank you! One ADD that might be helpful to someone: REMEMBER those unresolved loomings inside you ARE IN YOU AS A LITTLE KID!... who NEEDS you NOW!
Well, the video made me cry. Mostly for the reason I don't know how to deal with all the issues I've been aware of for years or even decades (including tons of shame & disgust about my own existence), I've been just... stuck.
When I began self reflection and shadow work, I began to look at myself from the outside looking in and I became disgusted, repulsed, and ashamed of myself! I am starting with love to begin this healing journey. Thank you
It’s very moving to see how much you care about people’s wellbeing! Thank you!
I feel a lot of disgust lately after breaking up with someone who failed my trust. I blame myself for letting him into my life.
I had the same experience this year
Hugs, going thru what seems similar
Thank you for this Irene 🙏 I now understand those soul crushing moments of self hatred and disgust. I didn't want to go on another day 😔. I'm glad we all have someone who has given a voice to this heavy pain ❤
Thanks Irene. There is hope. It sounds so right to my ears now.
Disgust, shame are very impactful emotional experiences, it's taken me a long time to get the nerve to look at it question it. It feels like others can use our negative experiences our reluctance to confront these emotions residing in us to manipulate and or emotionally blackmail us as well as the overall unpleasantness of it. Very profitable to heal I think.
I'm tainted meat all right...way past my best-by date. 50+ years with ASD means that whatever anyone disapproves of in you, there's probably a very real reason. You give everyone but yourself the benefit of the doubt. Shaming becomes a natural, real-world activity. Others are just telling you how reality is. It's toxic only to YOU.
Shame as physical disgust is something I've never had a handle on. To be honest, it sounds potentially woo. I've always subjected myself to disgust via my malignant superego. I call him my Drill Sergeant - his method is never ending contempt.
He says, "As soon as I break you, you can begin to rise again." But in the end, I always resist. The superego never gets its win. So I never rise.
I'M ASTONISHED BY THIS INFORMATION, THANK YOU IRENE
Amazing!! need to listen through this several times and certainly will check the other video! may wellness be your gift for sharing this work!
Thank you. That's so helpful for me as a mom. And yes feeling what once have been to much without opportunity to change anything on it.
Yes, this absolutely rings true for me !
This explains so much, thank you.
My mother is 77. She is still disgusted by me. When I visit her she says, ' Go home. Why do you keep coming and coming? I don't know what to say to you.' If I can learn to deal with the hurt, shame and self-disgust that surfaces for me then I think I will be able to solve the problem. It started with her; a woman who simply was repulsed by her child. The answer also lies in coming to terms with her. And forgiving her.
I don't know about forgiving but you should be disgusted with her
@@uyoebyikI didn’t see your comment and this was literally my first thought.
@@uyoebyik, forgiveness is a technical term that has a clear definition or two. It means that you accept the current situation as it is. Opposed to ruminating on "this can't have happened, I reject this reality". It has nothing to do with warm fuzzies or a god complex. Past events never become untrue, but the abusive person either has done reparations and taken ownership or not.
Also, you should never try to go out of your way to feel disgust for her. Either facts warrant it or not, but it's not a good emotion to carry around. Evil is best forgotten.
@@seriouscat2231 ok well in that case I have forgiven because I do accept the reality
Thanks Irene !
lol, i have been shamed for my whole life since my narcissistic mother gave birth to me. She mocked me in every chance she gets, disapprove me the hardest, rejected me anytime she wants, use me like a toy whenever she wants how ever she wants, she broke my relations with my friends when i was just a kid, she didn't even acknowledge me as a seperate person, i was always wrong, she is always right and i had to be wrong and step down, i couldn't do anything without getting humiliated and mocked. Even until now i feel those emotions like they are real and scared to the core like i was re-experiencing them again and again. She mocked me in front of the girl that i liked when i was just 7 years old. I have been working on my self for 4 years for now and still couldn't resolve all of this. Now i put boundaries with my mother and go no contact but the trauma she had put inside my mind is still there and torture me 7/24.
Hello, Sophia here from Team Lyon. Thank you for your comment and sorry to hear about what's going on for you and your trauma history.
Some videos you might find interesting:
ua-cam.com/video/26iUteWBYfM/v-deo.htmlsi=4IBf8PU3V4K2rSsF
ua-cam.com/video/9EyqPOI3auk/v-deo.htmlsi=2Vkq908Bu3PvvU1Z
ua-cam.com/video/BQQbVNty97A/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/U4IgtrZDJXg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/BKUy--3nY5E/v-deo.html
If you feel inclined to learn more and work on your nervous system, we highly recommend Irene's free resources and mini-training, all housed under this link: irenelyon.com/free-resources/
Please reach out to our support inbox if you have any questions
You’ve come so far Irene. Saw a video of you 6 years ago. You look so much better and younger now. So much more light in your eyes. Keep doing this for us all. Bless you and thank you,. Willing to smell my shit😂. Holding Space for Myself from now on. Miracles can happen. 😢.
I remember feeling self-disgust as a teenager when I was depressed/suicidal. I felt I had “bad blood” in my veins.
Yep, lots and lots of toxic shame. Sometimes it comes out as defensive "stop looking at me!" energy, and I get extremely annoyed with people who can't pick up on it and 'respect my boundaries', or as crippling depression that tears me apart and leaves me hollowed out, empty. If I'm left alone with my own thoughts for long enough I'll start pacing around for a long time, seething with resentment and envy, fantasizing about exacting bloody revenge on the ones responsible for my toxic shame.
Yep
That's one thing I've noticed doing the somatic work healing trauma. it's like a dark blob inside my gut that I release up out of my mouth. Weird. I guess that's tasting the rat...its not a one and done with the early childhood healing. I've been in it for two years. Making progress for sure! Some days it hits me like a train. The rage, grief, disgust. I'm glad I finally got sober and started the journey. No turning back.
This was so powerful. Thank you for sharing. I’m working on healing deep wounds of childhood. Thrilled to subscribe!❤
Great! thanks for being here Julia :)
Irene- I think when all of the psychological abuse is combined with physical abuse it leaves a very deep and profound wound in your body, brain, heart, soul. I’m saying this because I’m just seeing these things fold out in my body. The fascia in my body will at times feel like cement or broken glass! Saying that we feel like bad meat is so deep it feels like it’s in my cells. Being hit, suffocated and spit on etc has had much more impact on my psyche than I ever could of imagined. I’m not saying that to sound like a victim, I mean that when my body has been given those
Messages they have gone somewhere that manifests itself by neglecting physical and medical needs. It’s not logical. It’s a belief that I have that I don’t even know that I have…. Not Until, I’ve seen the results on an MRI… it’s wild. Thank you for this work, Irene! ❤
You are extremely courageous to face this with such awareness. Sending you tons of love on your journey 🤍🤍🤍✨
@@Flowergirl222 thank you for those kind words. 💕💕
What a horrifying experience.. holding space for your healing, holding space for your inner child to be loved. Just want to give you a big hug!💛
What can we do about the healing of disgust? It’s such a strong emotion and about self rejection also.
I think we need "disgust" tbh, we just don't need to internalize it
When we feel disgust towards someone it is important to allow ourselves to feel it, realise the feeling is there because it is letting us know not to trust this person. As a child that is terrifying as we have no control over the situation, as an adult we can choose to step out of the relationship or go low contact to create space to work on healing from our past and focus on becoming our future self.
When the feeling comes allow it. Give it awareness.
Disgust is the hardest part for me. My mind just won’t let me look at myself at certain ages. When I do inner child work, 5 years old is okay, but 8- or 10- or 12-year-old me…I can’t look at her. She’s pudgy and awkward, she’s annoying, she makes everyone uncomfortable, just…ew. Don’t make me look at her.
This was very uncomfortable for me; which means you hit a deep wound(s). Thank you.
Good break-down. Thank you.
Thank you so so so much for this, thank you.
Whoa sister. This is so valuable. Thank you.
Hola - Hello, greetings from southern spain !! I really benefit from your podcasts Irene . THANK YOU.
Thank YOU! on point!
thank you for your work....
So much over the top toxic shame has been projected onto me over the last decade and basically from when I was a little girl that I was having bouts of it every few minutes 24/7 with all sorts of disorders. Last months especially as if there was a warm blanket around me in the sweltering heat, very oppressive, my throat closed, my nose and cheeks also became very warm and it seemed that my ears swelled and hissed, pressure on my chest, dry mouth, palpitations and then I went in and out loud say what I felt, disgust, injustice, impotence, sadness, anger, indignation etc. then I acknowledged and accepted and said it wasn't mine because I could watch it and I was just a screen with all those projections. Terrible, but doable. But I'm still vulnerable to it. I added the Wim Hof method, cold exposure and breathing, very effective too. Thank you for this view, very helpful 🙏
Jorie, Jen here from Team Lyon. It's great to hear that you found this helpful. I am sorry to hear that you had so much toxic shame projected onto you, both recently and when you were young.
It's inspiring to hear about the work you're doing and the changes you're creating for yourself. If you want to learn more about Irene's resources, you might check out here New Here page: irenelyon.com/new-here/
Thank you. Not much energy to comment today, but truly thank you for this.
Brilliant 🎉 loved learning and listening to you articulate this valuable information. God bless you
I woke up this morning with the strong intent and desire to figure out how to increase my self-worth/value, as I've spent years trying to understand why I would attract and remain in an abusive marriage in which I feel I am treated like garbage. I completely resonated with the information you shared - as I recognize how I was shamed, ridiculed, and belittled by my mother. THANK YOU for this information Irene! What resources can I connect with to learn how to heal from toxic shame?
I have been moving through so much these past few weeks and have been constantly dry retching!! Now it makes sense, I've been clearing out all that toxic shame!! 🤢 It's been like a 3 week ayahuasca ceremony! 😅
This is so helpful. Thanks very much! ❤
Thank you for posting
Right there in front of my eyes my mom literally talked about me to her friend using the word "Disgusting!!" (just imaging the dramatic tone in her voice..!) and pointing at me 😂 oh crap, im glad i was kinda psychologically advanced as a kid, it probably saved me i was able to see that she was just sick and out of any balance. But truth is of course it still hurts 😛
My brother used to call me disgusting all the time, with a dramatic tone also, and a face full of disgust. Disgusting and ugly
Yes, I often see people talk about how people doubt themselves when treated like this, but I've never had this problem. I was always strong in my conviction that I was not inferior. But that does not in the slightest decrease the mental anguish caused by being treated as if you were
@@MariamHafez89 its so crazy 😵💫😮💨
@@DaveGrean yes, exactly 😶
13:29 THIS STATEMENT hit me like a ton of bricks in my gut and triggered tears…I had to pause the video to breathe through and sit with what was coming up. Thank you for validating this for me!
Thank you for this video
Toxic shaming starts with parents and the deeply damaging effects of it lead to the person falling victim to more toxic shaming from others in life until their youth is gone and a large percent of their life is full of memories of shame.
After dealing with an older sister and having depression for the first time in 26 years, what was surprising to me was that depression and feelings of shame were pretty much the same. There is an energy thing with depression that is different than just shame, but there is a lot of shame in depression. The only thing that I might add to this and that has been very helpful to me is to question whether the depression or shame is mine or someone else because in the stages of development, we took on the depression as babies, toddlers, or young children, we didn’t have good boundaries. Also, parents, teachers, spouses, etc., like handing off their depression to others. In my journey, I have decided not to carry the family shame. (This was a good video. Thanks for posting.)
You’re so good at what you do.. keep going. No doubt you will
"Disgust is the gateway emotion for working with shame. Shame is not an emotion, it's a quality, a physicality, whole body and visceral. It doesn't have emotional tone." Very interesting, but I don't really understand it. I always thought that emotions were felt in the body, what's exactly the difference with shame? Is this covered in one of your other videos?
Great video, very inspiring, I can start working with this. Thank you so much!!
Hi Flawesome Synefin. Seth here with Team Lyon. This can be confusing because when we are holding unresolved toxic shame in our system, this can produce lots of emotions, like sadness, jealousy, even self-hatred. However, when we are in contact with that toxic shame directly, it is much more of a raw, visceral cluster of sensations. It's kinda the same as the fact that being punched in the gut is not an emotion - we may have emotions about being punched in the gut, but the impact into the viscera itself, even though it is felt in the body, is not really an emotion.
Excellent yes family scapegoating
This was great! I did a meditation the other day that lead me to “disgust” - it was the word that came into my head - fear turned to anger, anger to disgust - I then had to apologize to myself for thinking such things & then forgive myself so that “pride” could make an appearance- though it was very small, like saying “pride is still here, underneath all the other crap” but keep going - it was a meditation by Sarah @ Unlock Your Life
Awesome, thank you.
I feel that religion told me the same message of being unworthy, compounded with having highly demanding parents from a very early age.
Hi dugongsdoitbetter, Seth here with team Lyon. Yes, organized religion can be profoundly toxic and abusive for sure.
Mark deJesus on UA-cam: he talks a lot about toxic religion, shame etc., was a game changer for me
I feel like i just unlocked a new emotion this is so cool
If we fight to change the meaning of the word Shame in the collective consciousness to one of purely negative qualities and use guilt as the word for healthy accountability for past actions it may be more effective. Brene Brown's mission right now is to change the societal perception and meaning of shame which would be extremely powerful in shifting the collective consciousness in the right direction. It really is a genius way to trying to help bring a level of awareness and awaken a toxic society mired in shame culture.
Thank you so much..
You are doing God's work and your content is so needed!!!❤❤❤
"Make myself tiny and small so no one sees me" That was my model growing up in my FOO, I believed it was the it was the way safest for me to fit in and survive.
Thank you x
Fantastic work.
Exactly what I recently realized: the putrid stench of the narcissists who have controlled me all my life (mother, brother, husband, mean girl friends). They actually revolt me now, physically. I now hold them in contempt because they are contemptible. My fear, my shame, was projected onto me by these disgusting people.
Thank you 🙏🏻 ❤️
My mum made me feel disgusting when she got a thrill physically assaulting me in the shower when I was a child.
It was buried there for a long time ,still working on it
😢😢 big hugs ❤️
You know I think about that song that goes, "Shut your mouth, how can you say I go about things the wrong way?" As an adult, I am choosing to turn that disgust towards the adults who knew better but chose to hide their hands to protect themselves, it's not a perfect system but it helps
I suddenly couldn't watch zombie movies anymore. didn't know why for 15 years.
turns out I fear becoming one because I'm bad.
what do bad things do?
they rot.
Wow. 🙏🙏🙏
Exactly wow.
Lovely video!
I was recommending your channel & interview with the man who took ayauasca in the comment on videos about prince harry and gabor mate recently. Views are polarised on this I know but I don't think there's a short cut to having the ''windscreen cleared''. I'd rather figure things out slowly.
same, plus psychedelics permanently damage some people and they don't come back to their full selves and have flashbacks for the rest of their lives
This word, disgust, is ever present in my life. The amount of abuse(mostly mental,emotional & spiritual) I have been put through my whole life is like not many people in the universe have experienced. I have always been very conscious, so I have always noted & understand what you can call everything i have gone through in my life, so i always knew it comes from my horrible torturing life.(nasty). Naaty what i have gone through, not me.
The interesting thing I am not sure everyone gets is that in an unhealthy situation, contempt (moral thing, "I think you are bad, worthless") and disgust (an emotion, "I feel you're repulsive") are disconnected. So when a person has contempt without disgust, there's no limit to it and it's possible to coexist with a person you have loads of contempt for. Or who has endless contempt for you, yet without disgust. But once trauma heals and these two get connected, the emotion of disgust becomes a limiting factor to the contempt. Prime example is how "neckbeards" and "incels" behave on the Internet. They have loads of contempt for everything, but it strangely lacks emotion. Whereas at the opposite end of the political spectrum you have people who have loads of disgust and anger that's strangely lacking in intellectual content.
There are very few moments when my parents have shown recognizable disgust at me and my doings. But those moments have been actually the healthiest, because the real problem is that without the expressed emotion of disgust, the pervasive contempt has gone unrecognized and actually done 99 % of the harm. It usually takes the form of compulsive distrust, second-guessing, contradicting and not taking anything seriously.
This resonates so much for me. Someone just recommend You in a comment section on a spiritual channel, i am subscribing. ❤
I was attempting to homeschool while battling Lyme and multiple miscarriages w postpartum. As I approached my then husband in tears and despair he swiveled in his chair and barked out in deep disgust: " What NOW." I never recovered from that
Thank you!