Unicorn Overlord | Leveling and Stat Growth EXPLAINED | They Don't Work Like We Expected
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- Опубліковано 31 тра 2024
- After doing a bunch of investigation and discussing w/people in my community, I have a grasp now on how our characters will grow in Unicorn Overlord, and it's not what I expected at first. I bet it won't be what you expected either.
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UO being Stat Sets also means that we don't need to worry about promotion unlike FE especially whenever there is a new title. Usually its a debate whenever its good to promote early or max out the base class before promotion. FE Engage for example has benefits promoting early because you can take advantage of better growth rates. Now in UO it doesn't matter when you promote (after its unlocked) and its just gonna be who are gonna promote first since it depends on your Honor currency.
early promote is always better people just think its not
@@JeffPenaify People think it's not because gamers have a tendency to min-max everything. How do you min-max a Fire Emblem character when you don't have infinite levels before Three Houses? Level a unit to 20, promote, level to 20 again, reset level with Second Seal if possible.
That way you get the maximum amount of level ups before they promote. Promoted units gain EXP slower and if you do not have Second Seals to mitigate it, you have less level ups to roll those growths with if you promote early.
In all honesty, you probably *are* making the mid-game unnecessarily harder on yourself by saving all your promotions for a bunch of Level 20's, but gamer brains want that 20/20 stat sheet.
When it comes to a specific game like Three Houses, you absolutely are wasting your time because you keep your level when promoting and in fact gain catch-up stats as a result of unlocking better classes. And you're REALLY wasting your time in Echoes because you really really need those promotions sooner rather than later, not to mention despite being an older style of FE, you get multiple promotions in a run, so this is only an issue for games where units only get a single promotion period. Every other game that dodges single promotion rules or limitations, you don't need to be full OCD on level capped promotions.
...Honestly I think it's worse for us overseas people because we *started* with 20/20 capped games.
@@UltimaKeyMaster yeah but realistically the big stat boosts and improved growths of a promotion make playing the waiting game diminished returns and unnecessary stress. Your character will get better stats early on and have better growth rates when you promote it, so not only will you have a nasty endgame unit, you will have a more reliable unit midgame. It depends on character and luck of the roll but id say on average youre better off promoting soon as you can, most times whatever stats youd build waiting another 10 levels will be mediocre, and youre trying to baby the character the whole time, the real growths and stat boosts happen on promotion
Thank you so much for making this. I kind of prefer this system, as it removes the RNG with Unit growth and you can better focus on the tools you have instead of worrying with the looming threat of poor Level Up's.
No more having to reload previous saves because of a bad level up.
No possibility of being RNG screwed is great!!!
That's good
I was freaking out a bit when I saw only getting 1 stat up in my early levels
YES. This is another great design decision (along with the no permadeath choice) for this game. What do people typically do in games where's there's randomized stat gains per level? Save scum to optimize or at least avoid bad gains. It seems more and more that the design philosophy here was to take the good parts of strategy games, while getting rid of the parts that limit user experience or push the user to play in unintuitive or tedious ways in order to circumvent pain points.
I. Cannot. Wait. To. Play. The. Full. Version.
SAME
I NEEEEEEEDD IIIIIIITTTT!!!!!
Hang in there, Friday is just around the corner.
Ii wish they had permadeatg. It’s the only thing that makes my 9.0 not a 10
*Spoiler* :
There's a Permadeath Mode Difficulty AFTER you finished the game~
Stat sets remind me of what Symphony of war does with its affinity’s that boost certain , where if you change an affinity half way through the game all their stats will update.
Yeah thinking about it, works exactly the same way. They both have stat boosters too, just Symphony Of War lets you go ham with them where Unicorn Overlord has limits on those stat boosters too.
As an avid player of T(J)RPGs .... I welcome this with open arms. As I always strive for a balance between lore, canon and gameplay efficiency, it's very nice to not have the pressure "unique" units usually bring to the table.
The way EXP is handled is also appreciated, you still need to grind but in a nice way.
I really liked the way they standardized the growths by type since it alows for unique units to be weird or take advantage of different equipment then usual to capitalize on what they do have while generics provide a nearly free path to pure combat efficiency for min maxing. Like its so cool to think that a unique character could just be worse by default compared to a faceless generic because the growth combo they have in some way reflects their character.
I think now I get why refusing to recruit some units give you gear you can give to your customized hired unit!
So basically it’s cool lex sucks cuz he’s a hothead when fighters can actually be pretty good with evade tanks
I hope there's something we can do with Lex to make him better though since I like his character
@@dizzyheads there’s an item called an idealist mirror that allows you to change your appearance and stat set which even works on the actual characters.
@@dizzyheads Lex is pretty good with the right setup, along with the right members added to his unit. There's a lot of synergy options, which is nice.
I quite like the stat system, it makes speedrun and challenge run routings much easier to plan
Protip: if you want 2 gryphon knights with one to sweep and the other to dodge tank, name the attacker/offensive one with the letters you want Amanda/Ophelia and the defensive/tank Diana/Trisha. Much faster than looking up stats if you have clear roles for the same units.
Or color code them...
Thats actually a really great idea
Thx
IMO Growth Rate is just fine as a term. Rate doesn't have to imply RNG, something that grows at a specific predetermined rate is still a growth rate.
While you’re right that rate doesn’t have to imply RNG, I think the issue is that players familiar with the genre understandably associate the term with RNG. Therefore, to lessen confusion I’m all for calling them something else.
@@DietersYT I mean the term fixed growths has been used on FE since there are options in some games to have growths not be random and just fixed based on their growth rates. I'd argue calling them something different is pointless where a term for them has already existed for decades.
@@twigz3214 I’m just going off what I think most players will (incorrectly) assume when they hear “growth rates”. We can agree to disagree, no biggie.
@@DietersYT I think it would cause more confusion to call them something else than the game does, if others disagree and the community dubs them something else eventually to distinguish them fair enough though.
@@twigz3214 what do you mean “than the game does”? Are they called growths in-game? I don’t see them named anywhere.
If they are named in-game, I think we should use whatever that is.
It’s good for balance because they have a definite “this is the lowest initiative character” and can look at all possible buffs to initiative to find how far it can go. I mean think of it for any stat, but it is just a really good way to do it. Also it pushes stats into a certain category: gear. We now think about our limited pieces of gear and where they should go. Like the recruits gear at the start of the game also has, in addition to the xp boost, a bonus to attack because a level 1 character would actually need that. They can design from the bottom without worrying about unexpected growths that move characters into unexpected stat potentials due to rng. If you want to max out Ochlys’s initiative it can only get so high.
This is actually really cool, im glad they made it this way
I love a good level cap system 😊
This is a huge relief for me as I'm the type of person to reset levels to turn "bad" growth units into good ones.
Stat boosters becomes more useful then.
Actually I'd argue it's the opposite. Random growth make stat booster your only crutch to save a unit or make them op.
In this system stat boost are a necessary thing to reach max potential.
The system in place is actually pretty much the same as Pokémon IV and EV system in a sense (or nature and EV).
@@sombrego2260isn't "necessary" like 100% useful?🤔
@@ellbeeytusing a potion is 100% useful for gaining hp. So, no, cherry picking that phrase and taking it out of context doesn’t mean anything
That can be a "all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares" scenario.
Since he never argued that 100% useful is necessary but the opposite.
That being said you're still right since it's out of context so I get what you mean.
Oh, weird. I didn't see that one coming! That's one way to keep characters from getting stat screwed, I suppose.
Something I noticed about exp is that it seems like if you aren’t in the red you always gain the same amount of exp, modified by any exp boosting skills. However lower levels require less exp per level, meaning that you will still level faster.
So much better, nothing was as frustrating as having to reset for levels in FE because a character would get garbage so often that they became useless.
I just saw you have a lot of content of this game, and you get a new subscriptor my man. Im hoping you get how the stats growths are close soon.
the biggest perk to set stats is that from a developers standpoint, it's much easy to balance enemies for. i can't imagine the headache involved to balance for RNG Screwed armies.
I wasn't 100% sure if this was the case, so I'm glad to have this more directly confirmed. Honestly kind of a relief to not have to worry about RNG screwing any particular characters over.
great info. would be cool to discuss what each stat growth name means? like which stats are the strengths of lucky, go getter, etc.
agree on liking that the growths arent randomized. no needless save-reloading just to get the best stats. i like set stats.
i like games with tight balance like this, triangle strategy and gloomhaven. all classes have a chance to shine/have a use.
I liked pretty much everything about the demo. I liked the leveling system. To me it means you will always be able to beat every scenario you just might have to change up your strategy. The only thing I didn't like was that you couldn't name the mercenaries. Other than that I cant wait to play more
Yea, i started the game and replayed the beginning and this is about what my guess was when reloading a few times and attempting a restart to see if stats would upgrade differently. But i had no idea about the shop...
This is actually really cool. I think i saw somewhere DD2 is also going this rout.
I really like this decision. I hate getting RNG screwed with stats when I play SRPGs. For a game where you are building a squad which effectively acts as a single unit I think more focus on equipment loadouts and tactics offers enough diversity with stat boosters to round out a build or favorite character.
This is the first time in literal decades that I play this genre, so simple is perfect for me.
Also, you mentioned siege weapons? I think I saw a battering ram in one of your clips, man i hope i can own a trebuchet or onager and not just have them as situational units, would love to rain death on infantry.
This is exciting. Sounds like a great design choice also ive confirmed my copy is coming in the mail tomorrow 😮
TOMORROW! LUCKY!!!
Rapport stat bonuses and stat increase items gain significant value if stat growths are set, and while I do enjoy a good random stat increase, it also completely disables the possibility of someone getting stat screwed. Which I do prefer when other game systems support set stat growths, giving you the player the choice of which characters stats to boost with items. This also makes the "5 stat increases max" items suddenly make a lot more sense.
I am left wondering if late/endgame expects characters to have maxed stat bonuses from items or are stat bonus items semi rare so you can only buff a few units to be very good?
Remarcable review. They really made an effort to put in the players hands the choice of customization and playstyle. It's much more open to changes an I like.
This analysis brings me great relief!
So much better than random growth.
I think this is a good thing. At first I wasn't sure but thinking it over, the less RNG the more the game can properly set the difficulty. In Fire Emblem you get a few RNG blessed units and it can really make the game too easy at times. Here you are level capped (effectively) and the units will always have the expected stats. Sure maybe players find cheese with different unit combos but it should help with difficulty balancing. Really excited to check this game out on release!
I am loving your content. Keep up the good work!
Edit- apparently I should just finish the video first bc you covered what I said, and put it better 🤣
i tried the mirror and while it can shift stats, the letter rank remains the same. do y'all think we should match the growth type with the letter rank for optimized growth? for example to give alain guardian type to optimize his defensive stats?
I’m thinking that crit/ evasion will always be terrific I’m interested in the initiative stat and how that plays out.
As a complete newcomer to strategy RPG’s, this is great. I can focus on in game strategy and not have to think about leveling timing and other stuff that I just find takes away from my enjoyment personally.
This game has generic *character creation* on top of the named units AND neither are gimped but more so stand out for roleplay purposes?
Man, I'm used to FFT being like "here's a bunch of units and your generics have a standard male/female appearance" but letting EVERY GENERIC have at least a Robin level of customization is insane to me. It'll actually feel like MY army.
I just call it “growth type” because that's what the game calls it.
There's nothing inherently “random” implied by the word “growth,” it just means the unit is, well, *growing*, which they are. It's the “rates” part which, well, technically doesn't imply randomness either, but is more associated with it.
I take it you confirmed this with Lex, Colm, and a generic fighter or some similar situation? I remember people saying they were getting different stats on their initial Alain level up. I guess that was just a misconception.
Yup, you can see that in the video. I compare Lex and colm, and then Lex and a generic, all at the same level. They all have the exact same stats
@@TitaniumLegman and here I am, walking around listening without watching. Lol
@@Leif3GHP totally understandable, I do the same thing all the time. 🤣
When you are hiring a new unit, are the default growth options the ones that are suggested for that specific class? Are you safe leaving them default if you aren’t looking to go super min-maxy in the first play-through?
I would have to test for it specifically, but I think the chosen stat set is randomized when selecting a generic, just like everything else.
The growths it starts on are random, If you want to make things easy I think using Hardy for any front liner and offensive for any back liner (excluding shaman) is a good place to start. After that All-arounder, Precise, and Go-getter are all generally useful.
This video was helpful. Thanks 👍🏽
Thanks for explaining. It’d be interesting if they can add FE-style growths as a New Game + option (like perma death)
The fact that it removes RNG in level ups is a huge blessing imo.
After the psychic torment of several FE games where my lord has had the most gimped and cursed growths imaginable I'm fully in support of entirely deterministic stats.
Do assist units gain xp as well? As in, can I make a dedicated assist unit (only archers, mages or clerics) and can it still level up by only assisting?
You do gain xp on assist, but it will lag behind proper combat xp.
Does ANYONE know how evasion and other character stats are calculated in combat????
I believe evasion is just straight up a subtraction from accuracy
I think stat modifiers might be the best description, though it doesn't have the alliteration unless we think up some synonyms.
I wonder how this works then when it feels like characters like Alain and Lex seem to always get magic on level ups on my first run despite not adjusting their growths. I know Alain for me had like equal magic and str when I was playing and I've no idea if that's working as intended or not.
Seems to me that the "growth rate" letter grades determine how many of that level character's points move into those categories, and are adjusted on a table whenever you change them for a particular specimen of that class.
For example, two knights with different growths will have the same number of overall stats, but the rates determine where the points are applied, accordingly. A level 5 knight with growths in defense and initiative will still have, for example, the same 25 stat points as a level 5 knight with growths in attack and crit. The difference will be in how many points are tilted in those areas.
Tangentally, I have guessed an attack's "Potency" determines (correct me if I'm wrong) the percentage of a character's overall attack going *into* said attack.
For example, if you hand Chloe the Unwavering Spear, she can use Long Thrust for 100% of her Physical strength and rely on her innate accuracy, or use True Thrust for 80% of her Physical strength, but have a guaranteed hit on her chosen target.
A physical score of 20 would do 20 damage with Long Thrust or 16 with True Thrust (ignoring defenses, for the sake of simplicity in this equation).
How damage is calculated is shown in one of the tutorials and you can find it in game tips under battle. It's just (atk - def) x (potency/100).
I think I like this approach a lot, considering the sheer number of units we''ll probably have to juggle around... No need to tip toe around levelling bonuses, ditching characters due to poor growths or postponing promotions due to late growths...
Plus endgame stages will be more of a test of tactical acumen rather than your luck at levelling troops
Random growth rates have always been the shittiest thing I’ve ever seen. No one wants to see a low roll ever.
Yes i have always been a proponent of fixed growths in Fire emblem, playing an FE game with fixed growths has always felt better then the random growth ones and to be honest FE doesn't need random growths. The variation you get from just simply what class you pick for a unit and how long you keep them in that class before switching plus the combination of skills you choose for them is enough to make them feel special and the fact that they already have personal growth rates means random growth just simply aren't needed for the game to be fun.
I wonder if the growth rates mean a set stat limit based on the letter. An “S” rank in HP at level 20 would be at 100 while an “E” rank would be at 60.
Using stat boosting items the “S” rank HP allows you to cap at 150 while the “E” rank gets you to 90.
This also can be even more complex as certain job classes no matter what you set your growth types to will not achieve an “S” in certain categories.
This is more or less a similar idea with what they did with the psp version of tactics ogre. Classes had set stats until you can farm green cards and effect their base stats. It's a way of better controlling power creep when done right. I feel like we're in for a deep level of customization after a certain point in the game that'll let us really change things up, but it'll be over time so as not to immediately break the game... I suspect we may see a piece of content that's intended for those that are pushing to make their squads broken just to give them an additional challenge.
The game is giving you a taste of every class in it's generic sense and letting you decide to build them other ways as well. Be it via the mirror or just starting off a new hired unit.
I think it's a much better system that lets you experiment with other ways to play a class and not be so dependent on rng and save scumming.
It really gives you the incentive to experiment with things.
I'm playing expert. I just take the cast and roll through the maps (a lot have been pretty small). Bosses put up a bit of a fight that's about it. While this has the perks of being simple it also has the drawbacks of being simple. I will very very likely just one and done and forget this. When it comes to rng leveling up you can usually just save scum so it's fairly w/e.
So the Growth Types are what determined the characters overall growths that are set no matter what to what character in the same Class if i follow it right?
That is correct
@@TitaniumLegman Than perhaps the Letters next to the stat numbers are the maximum stats what said character can reach, by that i mean the S is the highest stat that can be reached and the F is the lowest stat that would be maxed, granted i can be wrong about it
On the one hand, I'm going to miss the unique stats that my characters will end up with. I still remember my Ashe who ended up with a higher Str than my Dimitri. On the other hand, I see what you're saying about game balance because that Ashe was able to 1v1 the final boss.
I think this is usually referred to as a 'stat distribution' or 'stat allocation' system.
I think the restriction on exp gain after 3 levels above the recommended is a very smart move because it prevents you from becoming a God mid or early game, you still get some exp and at the same time you have somewhat of a challenge when completing missions. To me that is something I always wanted.
I've only played the demo once, just got it, and i really am liking GoGetter as my favorite Growth so far. But need to play a few more times, try out some more unit mixes etc. This forst play through i tried to p much have one of every class XD just to try them all out.
The two forms of stat customization in this game are growth types and rapport bonuses. The main benefits to generics are earlier access to classes/earlier access to class growth type combinations & letting you have more of a given class in your army.
Generics will be great for having units dedicated to all magic, heal, or hunter assist due to needing more of the same class in a unit to get a potency bonus on the assist.
@@TwinworldGameReviews I quite like how you don't have to do that either but it's an option open to player. If you use assists specifically for their ideal targets, you can still get a whole bunch out of your assists. The stamina tradeoff on assists makes the choices even more interesting to consider.
@@solecrusader14 If you can take over key garrison points and position your assist units on those points, unlimited assist stamina. :)
@@TwinworldGameReviews Trying to equalize exp distribution led me to prioritize mobilizing units as much as possible to share kills around, utilizing towers etc. is extremely potent though, I agree.
@@solecrusader14 Same here. I try to allow the units with the lowest levels take the final hit on enemies. I keep forgetting to activate Alain's double XP skill to help boost levels lol. I did notice that any assist attacks provide XP to those assisting units. I wonder what percentage of XP they get versus doing the actual battle.
Honestly, UO having set stats and growths measured off of affinity is very reminiscent of CRPG mechanics (such as KOTOR and Baldurs Gate 3). This is honestly the best path to take, since the game will be online capable and you can face other players, and is quintessential for making balancing much easier.
This "growth" mechanic is exactly the same as Pokemon has been using for around 2 decades now.
A Pokemon max level stats are calculated with base stats + Effort + Individual, and stats at any other level are proportional to that.
It works for the game its in! Fire Emblem's works because it makes units feel different to each other. Using Engage and the three Axe Fighters in it, Boucheron, Panette and "Lady" Annie, their growths if you keep them in their expected class reflect their character and make them different to each other. Boucheron benefiting by fitting the Axe Fighter Archetype which is he's relying on his Axes Might for the damage and his strengths of High HP and BLD mean he'll rarely be slowed by his axes and can survive longer then Panette and Anna. But Panette can better strengthen the Axes Might with her high Strength stat and better criticsl rate increase especially the closer to death she gets due to her personal skill, but she's pretty fragile and her bld is lower. Anna is the most fragile and all her axes slow her. However if you make it to level 10 you can make her a Warrior or just second seal her, as a warrior she keeps her able to join battles with her bow and can use the radiant bow and longbow to devestate. Or make her a sage to take advantage of her magic, axe mage knight, or sniper/bow knight, your choice! Changing classes works in FE do to the scope of its systems.
The fun I love with Fire Emblem is these differences and the fact I never know how a run will go. Hell my 5th run of Engage back in 2023 March, My Swordmaster Lapis Strength caught up to her SpD despite her speed growth being high because she was getting stat ups to strength for some reason more then Speed. Hell my last run in Three Houses, Ingrid was the same and I kep her as a Pegasus Knight/Falcon Knight.
Strategy Games like Unicorn Overlord are best left to Fixed Growths because their longer then a Fire Emblem game. Same with Tactics ogre cause the creators of Overlord did their research. Do look back at Ogre Battle and OB64😅 it was sometimes a nightmare especially your first run with a guide and still learning to grow your army because of alot of "not well explained factors" and thank god UO didn't bring back much of the busy work (even if I love March of the black queen and 64, I will never forget my first run of 64 where it took awhile to get a wizard and that wizard was mediocre because he was previously A FUCKING WARRIOR😅 yeah he was the only male I had that got anywhere near the stat requirements! I was lucky to beat the game with my only great units being the unique characters and lucky "recruitments/poaching" my second runs were easier only cause I knew what to do and even then busy work got annoying and I had to keep looking at the guide to remember some things! Happy they took Fire Emblems approach to its systems, which was make them simpler. I stay in the game and the only time I pause in UO is when I'm thinking my next moves....or picking the switch up to take ut to the bathroom 😂)
It has its pros and cons, personally I prefer the RNG leveling up. It's a bit more exciting and emotional getting a REALLY good level up for a character you really like and annoying when there is a bad one. It also makes things fresh for repeated playthroughs, the character in your last playthrough that was wrecking house is getting middling results this time, "Guess you have to switch it up and try someone else".
However a fixed set like in UO also provides for a more stable and uniform experience. A bit duller but also not likely to completely ruin your playthrough and soft lock out the characters that the game feels are important.
Fire Emblem Engage actually uses this standarized growth system, with the traditional growth rates system unlockable upon finishing the game for the first time. Both are valid ways to go around it, I think the standard system is great for a first run, while the more random one makes replaying the game more fun. There's a lot of stuff going on in UO so random level ups might not be that interesting to play with however.
It's mainly the team dynamic that would make random growths a poor fit for this game. If one member of a party isn't doing the job they are suppose to be good at then it tears down everyone in that squad. The team comps are too fine tuned and made up of too many moving parts for that level of variance to work in this game. Also it would be too easy to create many misconceptions about what teams do and don't work simply because one member of the party performed too differently than the average for their class.
Not that stat growths need to go away forever but I'm incredibly pleased that Vanillaware came up with a new way of doing things and I believe this is actually a GREAT system.
Is this really much different then fixed growths in FE though? The only real difference I see is that every character is like an avatar unit now with 2 boon modifier's you can customize. I agree it's a great system but i don't think it's anything new that Vanillaware came up with, just them simply recognizing an already great way of doing things. The color customizing of units is a nice touch though
I tested the stats on hire unit and with the same double "growth" I found a one point difference for the same unit type but in two different fort. Housecarl double hardy.
Fort Rimitz hp+6, phydef + 1, magdef +1
Fort Soligie hp+6, phydef +2, magdef +1. When leveling that one point difference disappeared. So "growth" would be more like a back story thing or it was made that way for the demo and would be different for the full game....
Hmmmm, now that's interesting. How'd they compare to unique characters?
@@TitaniumLegmanWhat do you mean an ? An unique with the same growth or with a différent growth compare to a normal unit? If it's an unit with the same growth as a unique of the same class, there's no difference.
I'm pretty sure that one of those Housecarls started a level higher than the other one, and that would explain the extra stat there. The gap closing in 1 level could be because the lower level one Housecarl had a high fraction of a stat that converted into a stat up on their next level up (Think FE9 Fixed Growths system), while the other Housecarl's fraction was too low to do the same.
@@naberiusbuster3489 Yep pretty much. Did not notice that till you brought it up.
Stat Templates as opposed to growth rates for me. It just makes more sense when I think of each class having their own template that is static and not random.
Remember you can hold the "A" button (on the switch) and highlight multiple units if you plan on giving them all the same order
I agree with having more controlled vsriables in SRPGs. You look at a game like FE 3 Houses, the devs had zero idea what the average playthrough would look like due to all the thousands of variables they give you and as a result the difficulty balancing suffered. Compare this to UO or FE Engage where the variables are heavily reduced and the games feel incredibly balancedin a satisfying way
I prefer dynamic growths, myself. I think it adds an element of uniqueness to each character that's scantly found in UO. The game's given me a serious lack of cause to use the prebuild units rather than making my own. Seeing rapport conversations is the only reason I can think of to use Lex, Chloe, etc. over a superior mercenary of the same class. You could make a decent counterargument by bringing up resource scarcity, but with the extra missions that the shaman introduces where you can grind for experience to catch your mercenaries up to the prebuilt units and earn back the honors you spent recruiting them, that argument largely becomes invalid. Dynamic growths and stuff like personal skills would fix this for me, I think. Voiced rapport conversations would also help to encourage me. Making custom mercenaries is really fun and all, but it needs to be balanced out a bit, as pretty much everyone except for Alain and Joseph are replaceable at present.
I don't really see why any of that is a problem or why it needs to be "balanced out." It's very clear they intended the incentive to use uniques IS the rapport system both narratively and the stat boosts. If you're someone who likes unique characters, use them. I don't see why they need to be statistically better than generics. It's not the game's fault if your need to power game and optimize leads you to missing out on using the unique characters, nor does it have an obligation to make them optimal. It's just as valid for someone to say they hate the fact uniques are always better because they're prefer to use generics in games like this. Which people IN this comment section have said they're grateful for.
@@williampounds5191 Just to be clear, since I think you misunderstand me, I like being able to hire and customize generics and I hated how in Fire Emblem Fates the generic hires were useless compared to the uniques. In a sense, UO is an overcorrection of what was wrong in Fates. The characters provided through the story don't provide enough uniqueness to justify their existence. And if the generics come with the benefit of being tuned specifically by the player to fulfill a role perfectly, then I think giving unique characters a minor skill like "+2 damage against hoplites" would be a decent way to balance things, because as is, uniques are always worse than generics. Again, I like generics, and I like doing crazy stuff like making Flayn from FE Three Houses into a barbarian. I'm not a power gamer. I just want something more than unvoiced rapport convos to give me a reason to use the uniques, because as is, I feel there's MORE incentive to use generics as you can name them, give them special designs, voices, and stat growths. What do uniques offer to counter that? Not much...I mean, generics get rapport and stat bonuses too if you haven't noticed. The only thing they miss out on are the conversations, and who really cares about that when they aren't voiced?
With all that said, I think Vanillaware did a good job overall. I've just noticed myself benching the majority of unique units in the game and while I feel bad about it, I don't see any good reason to stop since the uniques just aren't worth bothering with when I can get a much better generic for just a few honor points. Dynamic growths could do a little bit to change this, as any fire emblem vet would know the feeling of having an unexpected unit get a slew of lucky level ups, becoming your MVP of the run, and earning a place in your heart.
@@williampounds5191 I'd argue it is the game's fault for giving some characters just bad growths. Also generics still get the stat boost from rapport, all units do even if they don't have conversations with one another and it can be checked on the 3rd tab of the unit info screen in any squad. You can swap some growths of your unique characters though with a item you get, we only know of 2 so far though so we'll see how many there are. I think making them balanced is the best solution, some of the growth choices for characters are great like with Aubin's but some like Chloe's and Selvie's feel like they actively tried to make them bad for the character. Being able to change them later I think fixes most of the issues if we see the item on a regular basis though.
I do prefer the random growths in FE, it makes them risky and yet fun at the same time. However, I also like using my favorites, which Unicorn Overlord lets me do without having to worry about them being bad.
I think the point of making stat sets rather then growths is to put a higher emphasis on using the tactics systems rather then RNGblessed/RNGscrew players,
Palworld and Unicorn Overlord "we arent copies we are the upgrades"
If characters will end up with the same stats, disregarding their initial bonuses on creation. Thats fine with me. One less thing to fuss over when your equipment and tactic setup should be the primary factor.
I wish Pokemon stuck with an approach similar to this, I despise dealing with Independent Values in their current form.
Looking forward to the next video!
I discovered the aux battles. I have destroyed this game's economy and everyone is level 20 (including every single generic). Levelling is no issue because of Treatises that can farmed from aux battles where you can just send a flying unit (Ochlys) to assassinate the enemy command post. And in turn you gain renown and honor and I maxed all that out. Plus due to taverns you no longer need to farm rapport. Because Aux battles gives you an immense amount of money over a long period of farming.
I'm very grateful for the game for these features. However now that you've given me the option to steamroll the game. I will just straight up do that. If I had known this was an option from the start I would have played in a much harder difficulty to offset my cheesing. Plus given that battles are not as limited as I was first impressed upon, I don't feel like the rapports are earned as the lady you marry is suppose to be the lady Alain has fought together with and gained max rapport. But if I can just farm that with taverns... the earning your bride's affections aspect feels very superficial (literally took a girl to a bar and wined and dined her until she liked me for throwing money at her).
Quality of life can ruin the perceived authentic experience.
Static characters are going to hurt the replayability for me. That dopamine of getting good level ups is gone as is the fun of trying to make meme units with bad/unlucky growths into unstoppable powerhouses. Its no doubt this way because of PvP but ehh
have you heard of War of Genisis Remants of Grey?
What about "ability (or abilities) array", that keeps the alliteration
Main issue with that is it could confuse people when we're talking about abilities we get from weapons and such.
Predetermined growths will likely be bad for replayability purposes, but fine for the first playthrough
Jesus, what a cumbersome explaination for a simple concept.
the randomness was always so annoying if i always know how a type of soldier will be set up i don't need to worry about the "meta" i can just level characters up when and where i get em.
Really love this system ironically gives complete freedom to role play allowing players to choose which units(named or not) to accompany you during the story
The system is somehow close to Pokémon.
In Pokémon you have a nature that boosts one stat by 10% at the cost of -10% in another. Then you have IV score for each stat that determines how much of any given stat you will get, exactly like stat growth operate except you get a lot more combination possible.
And EV in Pokémon are essentially how stat boosters work except once again you can have a lot more and you can't have more than a fix number total instead of having it per stat like in unicorn (actually in the first generations it used to work like in unicorn).
Granted the values from both games are quite different but fundamentally it's working the exact same. Two Pokémon with the same equivalent of stat growth and stat boosters will always have the same stats no matter what, just like units of the same class will in unicorn.
I seem to be in the monitory, but I don’t like set stat growth. Why take any character over another then? I like some degree of randomness, using a less than optimal character because I simply like him or her. This is going to really make it a min maxers fever dream. I’ll do my best to avoid it but there will no doubt be people finding the most optimal broken setups within days of release.
Additionally why does the game feature a stat increase when leveling up? Is that just to give the illusion of random stat increase? It totally makes it pointless to show that then. I dunno, I’m old school and I like a bit more mystery to my strategy rpgs
Why take any character over another then? Because even with fixed growths Anna in engage still gets magic level ups 5 out of 10 level ups as a freaking warrior for gods sake and no one in the game can every take that fact away from her or out perform because it's a unique trait exclusive to her because no one else has a 50 magic growth rate when serving as a warrior. It makes Anna as a warrior special compared to all the other potential warriors you could use because she is the best shining bow user because of this and i enjoy that unique aspect to her as a character,
So why use any other warriors? Because Alcryst as a warrior can use the silver bow because his bow proficiency bumps him up to B rank his personal skill is also kick ass and entirely unique to him. Boucheron on the other hand can only use C rank bows but his insane build and speed growth makes him one of the best axe units for doubling with heavy axes. These characters don't need random growths to stand out because they already have unique traits that make them stand out from everyone else. All it takes is for people to move away from the meta gaming to realize all the unique things these characters can do and find fun new ways to use them even if it may not be optimal its cool as shit and surprising effective at times none the less.
Now why use Lex over a generic fighter in this game? No idea, but i've only played a small bit of this game and the point still stands you don't need random level ups to make characters stand out and i have a feeling the the unique aspect of characters in this game will be in their rapport conversations and the cool equipment you give them. Their growth modifiers probably make them feel a bit special too to a lesser extent
I will prefer this. It will be a nice change :)
Aren't unique characters still technically better due to the rapport system?
Can the generics build rapport and get those combat bonuses?
So, i dont really have too much of a problem with fixed growth, but is there really no difference between unique characters and mercenaries? If so, that's kind of disappointing. Is there any reason to use the unique characters then?
What bothers me is that unique characters almost always have really bad stat growth combinations for their classes I always prefer my non unique characters in comparison because their stats are what they need them to be. Hopefully the mirror is very easy to come across past the first area. For instance I almost always put attack and initiative on high damage classes helping me getting first hit on same level enemies way more often.
It's the one thing that I find a bit annoying, I think they chose the growth for the unique characters based on how the character is written and not on stats that make sense for the class.
I guess it will reduce the grind and rng elements, but it also removes a lot of player choice. I'm surprised that even story characters are not unique to any way in battle. It means we will hire a merc at start of the game and we will never ever change them, because everyone is the same
Can we confirm now that the official game is out that growths indeed work this way? As you have more properly renamed them, “growths” are really Stat Sets?
I like how the exp gain doesnt seem to be very effected by the difficulty. Im not as fond of the 100% consistent stat.
I got my switch and I am ready to go :D
I love this.
Always hated the fact that some units in FE are simply useless compared to other ones. And even then you can either be super lucky and gain good level ups or quite the opposite and missing out on DPS-focused stats the past 5 levels and now you are stuck in limbo with that unit.
The way it is in UO you can definitely pick any unit that you like in whatever fashion you want and potentially adjust stats or even looks. This alone provides enough replayability.
Definitely beats the "I steamroll with Bob until chapter X because lol broken."
So this would mean unique character are only stronger than generic when paired with friends? (via rapport system)
Generics seem to gain rapport as well, although I haven't had the chance to experiment with it myself yet.
@TitaniumLegman then I wonder what benefit the unique characters have since executing/sending away gives item rewards.
@@michaelgorski4221 some uniques like Auch get you more items overall if you keep them around tho, so it might be more a case of short term vs long term gain.
I think the only benefit for unique characters is that you get 2 honors when you watch a rapport conversation, you don't get any if they don't have a conversation but you still get the same stat boosts. I guess the other benefit of Unique's is it not costing honors to recruit them and some have questionable growths but others still have good ones for their role.
you wrong my man in both my 2 playthrough of the demo the stats of alian differ although is in the same level
I have a strong feeling I know how this is working under the hood but of course can't prove it yet. I think it's working very similar to some FE games which have Fixed Growth's as an option. Which works basically like this:
Units still have growth rates like you would expect, in this case determined by their base class +/- modifiers from their Growth Types. But instead of any rng it just adds that number in the form of what I guess you could call "Stat Exp" or something similar. Say a character has a 70% Atk growth and is currently at 0 Stat Exp. They'd level and get 70 Stat Exp, not hitting 100 and thus not gaining a point in the stat. Next level they'd have 140 Stat Exp, causing them to gain a point and have 40 left over. Next level they'd hit 110, gaining another point and having 10 left over. And on the next one they'd be at 80, not reaching 100 and thus not gaining a point on that level.
Like I said I can't prove that's how it works but I strongly suspect it is. It's a system that has been used before and is far simpler than planning out stat gains on a per level basis for every class. Especially with the existence of growth types. It makes a lot more sense to me to think a system like this is in play determining when units gain points.
I'll be continuing to call them Growth Rates personally. It's the Rate at which the stats Grow. Fixed Growth Rates and Random Growth Rates are still Growth Rates in any sort of technical sense.
Pretty big Pro for this is, RNG cant destroy one of your units just because youre unlucky. Second Pro, with using the Growth Types correctly, you can really develop units for the Tasks you give them.
Yeah, I'm excited go see how different classes can fill different roles by having different stat sets assigned to them.
This actually makes generics slightly better than unique combatants because you can choose their growth rates at the time you make them vs. paying 30k to do it, and so far that's extremely limited to only being able to do this one time, for one character... obviously unique non-mercenary classes are a different case, but that also means they should get priority for mirrors
Well there is still the rapport system to contend with. Also unique characters could verily easily have growth rates that are still good for a role that class can be used for on top of that.
So in D&D terms, this is wholly the difference between Rolling for stats vs Standard Array. Rolling is more varied and fun (unless you roll like shit), while Standard Array makes for a more balanced experience. Both have pros and cons, and neither are clearly better than the other.
I guess UO is going for balance in this regard, and I don’t think that’s a bad decision at all.
That's a good way to look at it yeah.
Untill you roll 3 , 5 times in roll and u will forever prefer 1 over the other just saying.