his judgement has to be bad to even apear on this podcast. these two a fraudster the internet makes fun off. you just have to google a bit. its not that hidden.
@@boohoo5419 They are fraudsters because they discuss finance? Not everyone who suggests getting into a real estate career is a fraudster... please provide evidence. No, I will google "Is Graham Stephen a fraud" and I will be back with results.
Classic😂 it’s fun to go back and watch those just to see the difference between him then and him now, he’s made so much of a progression. And I’m here for it
@@Solidude4because they don’t actually listen. Because they’re not actually very smart. The way they squirmed when Alex suggested there is no meritocracy nearly melted them.
I do too. But I question his seeming walking-back on the utility of logical thinking and rational argument as 1) it's sometimes the only option to respond to religious extremism, 2) those were crucial for me personally in escaping my own religious indoctrination, 3) that's the milieu that led him to the success he has had and 4) I believe it has helped many people by leading to progress in philosophy, technology, medicine, etc.
@@CMA418I don’t see it as him walking back, but more as him finding new ways to further his understanding and focussing less on convincing others of what he already believes. But there are also other, less direct and less confrontational ways of convincing people. After so many years it can become boring, tedious and pointless to keep trying the same methods. Let him cook.
I don't quite understand why the point about imagining a triangle is significant. Like, if you draw a triangle in MS Paint and then switch off your monitor, where is THAT triangle? You can cut open an SSD the image is stored on, or the RAM the program is running on, and you will not find a triangle there either. It's made from a composition of electric signal that the software turns into an image of a triangle. So the triangle in your mind can just as well be an arrangement of electric signals in your brain that it's been taught is a triangle.
I thought the same thing! By the same logic you can say that anything that is on a computer is already immaterial, which would mean that it has the properties he describes. Of course, he is representing just an argument that can be used and not saying he believes it fully himself, but I found the argument flawed.
But the triangle doesn't exist in the computer. It exists on the monitor. All the computer has is instructions for the monitor on how to draw or the triangle, and you would be able to find those instructions in the memory of the computer. You could kind of think of it as the computer being the brain and your imagination or consciousness being the monitor. The brain has the information on what a triangle is and how to "draw" it onto your imagination. The triangle stops existing when you turn off the monitor, but the information on what a triangle is doesn't. Similarly, the triangle stops existing in your consciousness, when you stop imagining a triangle, but the information on what a triangle is continues to exist in your brain. So the big question is what and where is this monitor for our brain. This is how I understand the metaphor anyway!
@@kaze8447 Idk, maybe it's different for others, but for me when I imagine a triangle, it's like with a monitor that is switched off. I know the information about the triangle, and just like a computer I can turn it into a reality if I take a pencil and draw it (turn on the monitor), but unless I do that, the triangle I'm imagining lives in my mind as a concept, a set of instructions on what it is and how to make it, not an actual image. Just like a triangle with a turned off monitor lives on a computer. And now that I think about it, specifically in regard to a memory of an image, it's quite a peculiar thing. They're clearly not images in the way what I see with my eyes is. But they're not text, sound or math either. They're this weird state that has no equivalent outside of the mind. But one thing that clearly contains images and exists within the imagination is a dream. When I dream I do see, in the same kind of way as when awake. So what is the monitor for that is an open question.
I think Alex is my favorite human. I religiously watch his content and try everyday to think more like him. Even though he's younger than me, I can proudly say that this man is my role model!
Indeed. He has always been such a thoroughly lucid and eloquent communicator, and becomes ever moreso with each new, like, iterative pass through the same pathways of reasoning. I love having grown familiar with his most well-considered thought processes and arguments as they become increasingly refined and polished. I find myself more aligned with his intuitions all the time, to an extent now that I can pretty reliably anticipate where his mind will go upon being asked any given question, and yet he is always pressing on into new novel territorio and frontiers of exploration. I'm really enjoying his current expansiveness, easing off of the tenacity of meticulous analysis, growing bored of syllogisms and identifying fallacies, in favor of a broader receptivity to abstraction. He is someone whose judgements I feel confident using as reliable beacons and whom I've always felt is quite unlikely to deviate from propositions and worldviews of which we who wish to seek thoughtfully whatever truth can be hoped to be found accessible to our ravenously curious little human brains may always be proud to find we are in general agreement. What a champ.
I love Alex, but honestly my favorite part of the podcast was just the add read talking about how the Range Rover "minimized unwanted body movements." That's a phrase I didn't know I desperately needed in my life. Thank you.
Yeah. And the section just before where he's basically like "well how can it be mistreated if it's conscious? It's only a computer". He's just not understanding what's being discussed
Current AI is trained not self-taught. It's programmed with boundaries which many question is pushing a narrative. People are a permeable membrane; we are a product of our environment; so people can be manipulated pretty easily from false data or narrative. "woke agenda" is a strange way/marketing to buzz phrase that question.
Don’t want to be rude, but I thought the hosts were poor on this episode - couldn’t follow what Alex was saying during the materialism and AI conversation
As a fan of alex but don’t know much about this podcast I really liked how the hosts just let him go off at times. They were also visibly in awe at him talking quite a few times. Which I fully relate lol I also love how he brings up Trent as a formidable opponent when it comes to debate. Trent’s prob my fav theist
I'm familiar with Alex's stance on free will (or at least earlier ones), but I think the suggestions that free will and awareness is right on the money. Simple thought experiment: what's the difference between breathing reflexively (clearly without will) and breathing intentionally? Awareness. If you're not aware of your breathing, you are breathing reflexively. But when you're aware of your breathing, you can't breath reflexively in the same way. Alex would argue we don't have free will because we can't control what we want... but if free will is not in the impulse, wants, desires, or even choices but in what we focus our attention on, then it doesn't matter. Our impulses could be determined, and we can still have free will.
Hot take: Consciousness is second-order perception, i.e. a conscious system perceiving its own first-order perception of itself and its environment. By the standards of any other verbalized concept, this is about as coherent and comprehensive a definition as human language allows for.
Not a hot take, its Descartes's take if I'm understanding your words correctly. "I think, therefore, I am". I don't think this accurately describes consciousness however simply because human words fail to capture it, the attempt to do so expands it beyond capture.
You can be conscious without being aware of the fact that you're perceiving things. What you're describing is meta-consciousness. Consciousness is simply the act of perceiving. My cat is conscious without being meta-conscious. My cat is not having higher-order thoughts about its thoughts like I am. But I would never say it's not conscious. I can also have conscious experiences without necessarily having a second-order perception of them. If a ball flies at my face, I will reflexively dodge it without thinking about it at all. I was still conscious during that experience, though, even if I wasn't having a second-order perception at the time. In fact, at every moment of your life, you are doing some things consciously without being actively aware that you're conscious of them. It's only when you choose to activate your meta-conscious self-reflection that you can have "thoughts about your thoughts".
I agree with you here . I disagree with Alex’s take on this. Consciousness seems like it would just be sophisticated software that is self aware of the machine running the software, and likely all thoughts are some sort of biological solid state memory or ram that could be measured. So it is not physical like our body , but rather the data being stored on our nervous system. Maybe it’s not binary but it could just be some form of computation of our sense inputs mixing with our biology . Would have been cool to hear his thoughts on that argument .
A second order perception will only lead to an infinite regress and whom is doing the perceiving in each of these systems? Who is the subject? There is qualitative difference between how minds operate and how sense perception operates. The mind has unity of apprehension and is always an intentional act, which can never be reducible to parts. A fun question to think about in order to sever sense perception from consciousness is to ask whether a blind person is less conscious? They clearly are just as conscious because it’s not about the amount of sensation. Consciousness is the first person unity of apprehension which you see and interpret the world.
Graham has a clear arrogance surrounding intelligence and success. He feeds questions which are just his beliefs with question marks at the end- "It must have been so hard being 13 and a genius theology kid talking to people twice your age" "do you think you were BORN a deep thinker?" "surely we shouldnt allow dumb people to vote" "surely we shouldnt allow poor people to vote" His disdain for what he views as the common unenlightened genetic stock has frankly never been on clearer display and seeing Alex gracious but firmly shoot down each of these "well i wasnt an expert at 13, well i dont know whats genetic and whats not" and outright calling the tax and text prereqs for voting gross were well deserved pushbacks.
This was my exact feeling too! He has this immediate idolization of Alex which is really weird. Moreover in his political system he probably wouldn’t have been allowed to vote, he clearly hasn’t thought about his presuppositions enough.
“Do you think we should test people before they vote?” “Absolutely not. Who would administer the test? “What about a minimum tax limit before you can vote? Why should people who are tax burdens be allowed to vote?” “Some citizens have difficult circumstances. That proposal seems grotesque to me.” “Technically speaking, how can an atheist have values, purpose, or meaning?” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Alex I think you dismiss premise-conclusion based arguments too easily. In fact your videos about free will and nonexsitence of objective morality where you logically outlined the arguments had a big effect on me!
@Alex O'Connor Genuine question: How do you not get bored or frustrated repeating a relitivly similar explanation over and over for so many different subjects, especially regarding emotivist ethics. Does it ever feel stagnating to talk to people who are not well versed in your area of interest? It must be stimulating enough to get new perspectives. Do you think that's because you spend so much time talking to some of the most well versed thinkers alive in the Western world? Would you like to spend more time with people experiencing the world more detached from the game of academics? Do you feel that would increase your understanding of those most pressing questions in your heart. How do you balance this dichotomy? Is it really a dichotomy?
@@dillanv.9535 I make sure to move about, keep hydrated, eat sensibly turn screens off an hour before bedtime. I keep lots of bookmarks and I am patient about waiting for time to visit favourites again. I watch fractions of podcasts. What other hints about living first-hand as well as being interested in best podcasts are people sharing?
I understand that they're probably nervous, but they're not engaging him in conversation. It feels like they're just reading questions off a list. One host was so eager to get to his next question he even cut off Alex's joke about whether he was adopted.
Wow from all of Alex's appearnces I've seen from his time in the states, this is the best by far. I really enjoyed your guys's show! much love from UK x
Trent's argument has a nice corollary in the biblical text as the Being claiming first-level Creative rights also identifies as Unchanging Truth. How Unchanging Truth initiates creativity at all is a paradox that would need explanation.
The hypothetical ethical questions at the end given without context is no different than a preacher teaching something based on a verse out of context. Context is everything. Our lives are context and determine the correct answer.
He had a weak take on the matter. Zero discussion about how only an attractive girl can become famous for absolutely nothing besides a pun about fellatio. A true indicator of a failing society
Don’t know if he’s “atheist enough” for the atheist community. I think he is the best representative of a sceptic who can respect the other side though.
Idk why they're getting so offended at Alex saying slot machines are a bit weird. I feel the same way. They're super exploitative by scientifically manipulating human emotions to profit off them with lights and sounds. It's just so direct.
34:10 Challenge to the materialist accepted. I get the temptation to say, "Well, that mental triangle doesn’t exist physically, so materialism must be false." But the experience of picturing the triangle is rooted in physical processes in your brain (there’s a cascade of physical events every time you conjure that image - neurons fire, chemical signals flow). Materialism argues that everything about consciousness arises from these physical processes, not that every thought or image itself is a chunk of matter floating around in your head. Alex, think of it like software on a computer: you don’t open up a computer and find actual folders and icons in there, they’re representations made possible by circuits, chips, and programming. Your brain’s 'software' - (those immaterial images, concepts, thoughts) emerges from a system that’s entirely material. If you’re asking if materialism is true, it doesn’t necessarily require that every element of mind be material, only that every element originates in physical processes. So, in that sense, yes, materialism holds in my opinion.
This is an incredibly interesting talk. A gratitude practice is like the reverse of the threat of something bad happening. It's good to do and helpful but not anywhere near as powerful as the relief that comes from being freed from something bad or gaining something really good. Maybe that is genuine appreciation.
There was once a Chinese emperor who dreamt he was a fly. So convincing was the dream, he questioned whether he was a Chinese emperor who dreamt he was a fly, or a fly dreaming it was a Chinese emperor. 🤷♂️😆🤔
Re: 'Asking how you know obvious things is really important'. The issue is rather: 'Quite generally, the familiar, just because it is familiar, is not cognitively understood. The commonest way in which we deceive either ourselves or others about understanding is by assuming something as familiar, and accepting it on that account; with all its pros and cons, such knowing never gets anywhere, and it knows not why. Subject and object, God, Nature, Understanding, sensibility, and so on, are uncritically taken for granted as familiar, established as valid, and made into fixed points for starting and stopping. While these remain unmoved, the knowing activity goes back and forth between them, thus moving only on their surface. Apprehending and testing likewise consist in seeing whether everybody's impression of the matter coincides with what is asserted about these fixed points, whether it seems that way to him or not'. - Hegel, 'Phenomenology of Spirit', 1807. Hegelian speculative philosophy begins by defamiliarizing the familiar, the familiar is an obstacle to knowledge.
On Alex’s gambling example to examine meaning - What people want, at least in that context, is dopamine. They want to genuinely believe that they can win, because it’s the expectation that you’re just about to win that spikes dopamine
@@SlightSmile That's not true, game engines have camera systems, to calculate physical based rendering of triangles scaled within in a given perspective.
@@NicholasWilliams-h3j But does it have the ability to interpret and genuinely understand what it is seeing? Not really, it's just a collection of bytes arranged arbitrarily and via software we make it such that those bytes happen to represent a particular image or color. But how possibly could that machine actually "perceive" that object within it's own existence? It has no way of knowing what it's own data actually represents outside it's own existence.
This would be a much different podcast. You're projecting so much of yourself on to this expectation. Extremely entitled take. Start your own podcast and what YOU think are better questions. Clearly you think you'd be better than them... you'd have a youtube career ahead of you doing more of what you do simply in your free time. Or maybe you just don't understand this perspective that this podcast has of the internet and the normal audience this attracts and deals to entertain. I guaruntee you the speed of this, allowing for much more hypotheticals to be addressed, attracted many people further into philosophy that hadn't at first. I'm not sure how you come here expecting this to go much more into depth with all of those subjects. You seem to be viewing this as the "next episode of Alex" when it's simply not and couldn't be. It's the FIRST episode of Alex in this particular space and a good one at that if you're able to follow along. And dude... if this podcast sparks more interest further into these topics, then the podcast, quite literally, did exactly what it was meant to. Sorry if this is your first day on the internet...
@@zeph3070 They're good questions, but it is frustrating when Alex brings up something interesting and they instantly switch to something else without addressing what he'd just said. Like they were asking him how could you steal something without there being a victim. And Alex lays out a pretty good scenario, where the man couldnt afford it, the food was going to be thrown out anyway, but they still couldn't give it away because then they'd have to give it away to people who had enough to pay. This example really challenges that worldview that all forms of theft have a victim. The company wouldn't have lost any profit, that bread was going to be tossed anyway. Instead of engaging with this though, they just move on. There are a number of other times this happens, where it seems like they could keep it going, and they just don't. It's annoying. Also, it's ridiculous to say you can't criticize a podcast unless you've got a successful podcast yourself. If you watch a movie and it sucks, are you not allowed to say that unless you've made your own multi-million dollar blockbuster? Or if you eat a meal that tastes like shit, are you not allowed to complain until you become a world renowned chef?
About the first trolley question, pull the lever halfway and hopefully the trolley will derail. You might want to jam the lever with nearby rocks and hold on for dear life.
Can you guys for the love of god stop censoring even the most mild “shock” words?? Like, “kill”? How hugry can you guys be for milking the most CPM out of a video?
An incredible, cinematic intro and the first question asked is "What do you think about Hawk Tuah Podcast" 💀
Welcome, Einstein. What's your favorite type of bread? 😑😑😑
And the first question is for you Karl Marx:
The Hammers...
The Hammers is the nickname of what English football team?
If there's one thing Alex sucks at, it's realizing when whoever he's talking to is completely lost 😂
his judgement has to be bad to even apear on this podcast. these two a fraudster the internet makes fun off. you just have to google a bit. its not that hidden.
@@boohoo5419how? I’m not fans of them, I just like Alex. How are they fraudsters and who is making fun of them?
@@boohoo5419 They are fraudsters because they discuss finance? Not everyone who suggests getting into a real estate career is a fraudster... please provide evidence. No, I will google "Is Graham Stephen a fraud" and I will be back with results.
Makes u think about what else he might be lost about 😂😭💀
@@jswew12 yeah same lol I go to this podcast solely to see the guests
Been watching Alex since he had a weird cupboard in his room.
the shelves!
Classic😂 it’s fun to go back and watch those just to see the difference between him then and him now, he’s made so much of a progression. And I’m here for it
Same, I got onto him when he was debating Dawah bros, adjacent to the secular Muslim and ex-Muslim discourses
They were drawers!
Same!
Pleasant surprise to see alex here . Good conversation
I think some of this went over Graham's head with his line of questioning.
@@3ormore887 I think it's moreso they just had a list of questions to get through and didn't actually care about the conversation
@@Solidude4because they don’t actually listen. Because they’re not actually very smart. The way they squirmed when Alex suggested there is no meritocracy nearly melted them.
@@beng7093 can you write on what time they talked about meritocracy? I think I missed it :D
90% seems to have gone over their heads unfortunately
bro by far the best guest you've had on - i love alex
how the fu** did you know who alex is and listen to these two FRAUDS at the same time? just curious..
I do too. But I question his seeming walking-back on the utility of logical thinking and rational argument as 1) it's sometimes the only option to respond to religious extremism, 2) those were crucial for me personally in escaping my own religious indoctrination, 3) that's the milieu that led him to the success he has had and 4) I believe it has helped many people by leading to progress in philosophy, technology, medicine, etc.
@@CMA418I don’t see it as him walking back, but more as him finding new ways to further his understanding and focussing less on convincing others of what he already believes. But there are also other, less direct and less confrontational ways of convincing people. After so many years it can become boring, tedious and pointless to keep trying the same methods. Let him cook.
@@fvis I hope so.
2nd best 😉
I don't quite understand why the point about imagining a triangle is significant. Like, if you draw a triangle in MS Paint and then switch off your monitor, where is THAT triangle? You can cut open an SSD the image is stored on, or the RAM the program is running on, and you will not find a triangle there either. It's made from a composition of electric signal that the software turns into an image of a triangle. So the triangle in your mind can just as well be an arrangement of electric signals in your brain that it's been taught is a triangle.
I thought the same thing! By the same logic you can say that anything that is on a computer is already immaterial, which would mean that it has the properties he describes. Of course, he is representing just an argument that can be used and not saying he believes it fully himself, but I found the argument flawed.
Exactly what I was thinking! Tho put more eloquently than I was thinking haha
But the triangle doesn't exist in the computer. It exists on the monitor. All the computer has is instructions for the monitor on how to draw or the triangle, and you would be able to find those instructions in the memory of the computer.
You could kind of think of it as the computer being the brain and your imagination or consciousness being the monitor. The brain has the information on what a triangle is and how to "draw" it onto your imagination.
The triangle stops existing when you turn off the monitor, but the information on what a triangle is doesn't.
Similarly, the triangle stops existing in your consciousness, when you stop imagining a triangle, but the information on what a triangle is continues to exist in your brain.
So the big question is what and where is this monitor for our brain.
This is how I understand the metaphor anyway!
@@kaze8447 Idk, maybe it's different for others, but for me when I imagine a triangle, it's like with a monitor that is switched off. I know the information about the triangle, and just like a computer I can turn it into a reality if I take a pencil and draw it (turn on the monitor), but unless I do that, the triangle I'm imagining lives in my mind as a concept, a set of instructions on what it is and how to make it, not an actual image. Just like a triangle with a turned off monitor lives on a computer.
And now that I think about it, specifically in regard to a memory of an image, it's quite a peculiar thing. They're clearly not images in the way what I see with my eyes is. But they're not text, sound or math either. They're this weird state that has no equivalent outside of the mind.
But one thing that clearly contains images and exists within the imagination is a dream. When I dream I do see, in the same kind of way as when awake. So what is the monitor for that is an open question.
You probably have Aphantasia. @@Aphanvahrius
Now that I read your username, maybe you already knew it?
I think Alex is my favorite human. I religiously watch his content and try everyday to think more like him. Even though he's younger than me, I can proudly say that this man is my role model!
Indeed. He has always been such a thoroughly lucid and eloquent communicator, and becomes ever moreso with each new, like, iterative pass through the same pathways of reasoning. I love having grown familiar with his most well-considered thought processes and arguments as they become increasingly refined and polished. I find myself more aligned with his intuitions all the time, to an extent now that I can pretty reliably anticipate where his mind will go upon being asked any given question, and yet he is always pressing on into new novel territorio and frontiers of exploration. I'm really enjoying his current expansiveness, easing off of the tenacity of meticulous analysis, growing bored of syllogisms and identifying fallacies, in favor of a broader receptivity to abstraction. He is someone whose judgements I feel confident using as reliable beacons and whom I've always felt is quite unlikely to deviate from propositions and worldviews of which we who wish to seek thoughtfully whatever truth can be hoped to be found accessible to our ravenously curious little human brains may always be proud to find we are in general agreement. What a champ.
I love Alex, but honestly my favorite part of the podcast was just the add read talking about how the Range Rover "minimized unwanted body movements." That's a phrase I didn't know I desperately needed in my life. Thank you.
Didn’t even know who this was. He’s like incredibly smart, wow
lol
You'd be much better advised to watch his podcast rather than this one.
42:04 Man, Graham REALLY struggling to understand that this is a hypothetical situation being described.
Yeah. And the section just before where he's basically like "well how can it be mistreated if it's conscious? It's only a computer".
He's just not understanding what's being discussed
Came here for this
He just seemed terrified about being led to a conclusion. Like he was resisting being 'tricked'.
What does the “woke agenda” have anything to do with the discussion?
Current AI is trained not self-taught. It's programmed with boundaries which many question is pushing a narrative. People are a permeable membrane; we are a product of our environment; so people can be manipulated pretty easily from false data or narrative. "woke agenda" is a strange way/marketing to buzz phrase that question.
When do they talk about the woke agenda?
Right? total clickbait
@@abstract5249The point is that it's in the title but doesn't seem to relate to anything in the actual conversation. They never talk about it.
I'm going to say the woke agenda was the "hawk tuah" part if I was to guess
Don’t want to be rude, but I thought the hosts were poor on this episode - couldn’t follow what Alex was saying during the materialism and AI conversation
They were clearly intellectually challenged.
Can you blame them? These are difficult topics to follow, especially for laymens.
I agree. It seems they didn’t prepare well.
Alex’s laugh at 43:09 cracks me up, it says, “Have you seen my content?”
I love this guy. Philosophy is great.
As it literally means "love of wisdom", to hear someone say they are kind of abandoning the love of wisdom...😭
As a fan of alex but don’t know much about this podcast I really liked how the hosts just let him go off at times. They were also visibly in awe at him talking quite a few times. Which I fully relate lol
I also love how he brings up Trent as a formidable opponent when it comes to debate. Trent’s prob my fav theist
I'm familiar with Alex's stance on free will (or at least earlier ones), but I think the suggestions that free will and awareness is right on the money. Simple thought experiment: what's the difference between breathing reflexively (clearly without will) and breathing intentionally? Awareness. If you're not aware of your breathing, you are breathing reflexively. But when you're aware of your breathing, you can't breath reflexively in the same way.
Alex would argue we don't have free will because we can't control what we want... but if free will is not in the impulse, wants, desires, or even choices but in what we focus our attention on, then it doesn't matter. Our impulses could be determined, and we can still have free will.
Hot take: Consciousness is second-order perception, i.e. a conscious system perceiving its own first-order perception of itself and its environment. By the standards of any other verbalized concept, this is about as coherent and comprehensive a definition as human language allows for.
Not a hot take, its Descartes's take if I'm understanding your words correctly. "I think, therefore, I am". I don't think this accurately describes consciousness however simply because human words fail to capture it, the attempt to do so expands it beyond capture.
You can be conscious without being aware of the fact that you're perceiving things. What you're describing is meta-consciousness. Consciousness is simply the act of perceiving. My cat is conscious without being meta-conscious. My cat is not having higher-order thoughts about its thoughts like I am. But I would never say it's not conscious.
I can also have conscious experiences without necessarily having a second-order perception of them. If a ball flies at my face, I will reflexively dodge it without thinking about it at all. I was still conscious during that experience, though, even if I wasn't having a second-order perception at the time. In fact, at every moment of your life, you are doing some things consciously without being actively aware that you're conscious of them. It's only when you choose to activate your meta-conscious self-reflection that you can have "thoughts about your thoughts".
I agree with you here . I disagree with Alex’s take on this. Consciousness seems like it would just be sophisticated software that is self aware of the machine running the software, and likely all thoughts are some sort of biological solid state memory or ram that could be measured. So it is not physical like our body , but rather the data being stored on our nervous system. Maybe it’s not binary but it could just be some form of computation of our sense inputs mixing with our biology . Would have been cool to hear his thoughts on that argument .
A second order perception will only lead to an infinite regress and whom is doing the perceiving in each of these systems? Who is the subject? There is qualitative difference between how minds operate and how sense perception operates. The mind has unity of apprehension and is always an intentional act, which can never be reducible to parts. A fun question to think about in order to sever sense perception from consciousness is to ask whether a blind person is less conscious? They clearly are just as conscious because it’s not about the amount of sensation. Consciousness is the first person unity of apprehension which you see and interpret the world.
the hosts of this show are regarded.
Highly, some may say
Every time they have a good guest on, my impression of business bros gets lower and lower.
Highly regarded?
@@MBicknellHe misspelled RETARDED on purpose. Keep yp
I feel so smart after watching this. They chose torturing a conscious being on a cloud over a fucking plant.
I’m a little concerned about General Grievous behind Alex.
Graham has a clear arrogance surrounding intelligence and success. He feeds questions which are just his beliefs with question marks at the end- "It must have been so hard being 13 and a genius theology kid talking to people twice your age" "do you think you were BORN a deep thinker?" "surely we shouldnt allow dumb people to vote" "surely we shouldnt allow poor people to vote"
His disdain for what he views as the common unenlightened genetic stock has frankly never been on clearer display and seeing Alex gracious but firmly shoot down each of these "well i wasnt an expert at 13, well i dont know whats genetic and whats not" and outright calling the tax and text prereqs for voting gross were well deserved pushbacks.
This was my exact feeling too! He has this immediate idolization of Alex which is really weird. Moreover in his political system he probably wouldn’t have been allowed to vote, he clearly hasn’t thought about his presuppositions enough.
Alex is amazing. Thanks for having him on.
He's a legend!
@@TheIcedCoffeeHourit’s a shame you guys didn’t actually listen and engage with any of the ideas he presented.
Alex didn’t find a smart rival he started debating with linear algebra 😂
“Do you think we should test people before they vote?”
“Absolutely not. Who would administer the test?
“What about a minimum tax limit before you can vote? Why should people who are tax burdens be allowed to vote?”
“Some citizens have difficult circumstances. That proposal seems grotesque to me.”
“Technically speaking, how can an atheist have values, purpose, or meaning?”
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Has no idea who this is/was glad to have listened to him. Great podcast cheer's from your biggest fan in Colombia amigos!
Alex is just brilliant. My goodness. I am blown away for how articulate, intelligent, and sharp he is, especially at his age.
So today we have learnt that Graham doesn’t understand hypotheticals lol
After listening to this I'm very confident that Graham would have argued for slavery back in the day
Are you assuming that you would not. Remember over 400 years ago practically no one thought slavery was wrong.
That was amazing. I really enjoyed it. I like how you guys just let him talk and don't interrupt at all.
I need to see Alex do a kickflip now
We should start a petition
That’s too bad this episodes views aren’t very high, Alex is such an amazing person and this was such a good episode!
Ok I’ve changed my mind, the mustache is actually quite sexy 😂
I'm unsure if it's possible for him to mess that adorable face up.
It’s grown on me (no pun intended…?)
His final form will be full guru beard 🧔
Always was!!
It was more heartwarming than I expected hearing Alex mention Trent Horn & mention him as a friend, their 2 channels are some of my favorites :)
Would love to see Scotty Kilmer on the podcast!
The car guy? That would be funny
He would never.
Lmao ok put that under things that'll never happen
Revvvv up your engines!!!
Fuck that! I want to see Alex Oconnor VS Scotty Kilmore.
Alex I think you dismiss premise-conclusion based arguments too easily. In fact your videos about free will and nonexsitence of objective morality where you logically outlined the arguments had a big effect on me!
He used to be like you I guess
that's just the natural evolution of intelligent people. You might "get it" some day, or not
I'm sorry, but is nobody else bothered by the fact he casually used "balls deep" as a unit of measurement??
Not bothered…intrigued perhaps, titillated even, but definitely not bothered
The fact Graham didn't even react is the funniest bit lol
@Alex O'Connor Genuine question: How do you not get bored or frustrated repeating a relitivly similar explanation over and over for so many different subjects, especially regarding emotivist ethics. Does it ever feel stagnating to talk to people who are not well versed in your area of interest? It must be stimulating enough to get new perspectives. Do you think that's because you spend so much time talking to some of the most well versed thinkers alive in the Western world? Would you like to spend more time with people experiencing the world more detached from the game of academics? Do you feel that would increase your understanding of those most pressing questions in your heart. How do you balance this dichotomy? Is it really a dichotomy?
Also, for anyone interested in a less personal question. How do you balance consuming stimulating media content vs. experiencing the world directly?
@@dillanv.9535 I make sure to move about, keep hydrated, eat sensibly turn screens off an hour before bedtime. I keep lots of bookmarks and I am patient about waiting for time to visit favourites again. I watch fractions of podcasts.
What other hints about living first-hand as well as being interested in best podcasts are people sharing?
I've enjoyed watching Alex debate theist over the years. So far I think he usually makes the more rational argument.
I’m just here for the people they invite and this Alex guy is amazing 😊
Balls deep in knowledge 😂
Ikr, that caught me off guard coming from Alex 😂
Alex not knowing whether to pull the lever in the trolley problem is like Chidi in The Good Place lol.
too many ads but great that you let your guests speak freely and without cutting them off
This was SUCH an interesting discussion. Thank you!!
The definition of outclassed 😅
Love Alex and you guys are some of the best hosts on the internet. Very open and genuine every time
This is a fantastic interview-Alex continues to get even better at explaining these concepts
I understand that they're probably nervous, but they're not engaging him in conversation. It feels like they're just reading questions off a list. One host was so eager to get to his next question he even cut off Alex's joke about whether he was adopted.
They can't follow intellectually.
Yeah. I noticed that. Was kinda shitt.
Las Vegas Fakeness concept is described in the "Post Modern Condition" by Lyotard
Wow from all of Alex's appearnces I've seen from his time in the states, this is the best by far. I really enjoyed your guys's show! much love from UK x
Trent's argument has a nice corollary in the biblical text as the Being claiming first-level Creative rights also identifies as Unchanging Truth. How Unchanging Truth initiates creativity at all is a paradox that would need explanation.
Intelligence is knowing a tomato is a fruit, wisdom is not putting it in a fruit salad.
Wisdom is applied knowledge i guess.
Alex is awesome His ideas are beautiful.
The hypothetical ethical questions at the end given without context is no different than a preacher teaching something based on a verse out of context. Context is everything. Our lives are context and determine the correct answer.
Talk Tauh was not the opening I expected from this podcast 😂
He had a weak take on the matter. Zero discussion about how only an attractive girl can become famous for absolutely nothing besides a pun about fellatio. A true indicator of a failing society
2 hours of watching Alex patiently answer ill-conceived questions
I'm convinced Alex is one of the greatest philosophers in my lifetime
Lord these comments are very telling of the current level of education in this the US.
I swear, people want someone to spoon feed them information
Yep, Americans do not realize how uniquely ignorant they are.
What's wrong with them ??
Seems like you like looking down on people .
then teach them
You wanna watch Andrew Gold podcast to rebalance your perspective. That guy is as thick as mince.
Wow this is a colab a never saw comming, my favorite creators together🎉
Graham this transition 😂 14:14
🤣
i feel like the hosts never heard the word philosophy before
Alex O'Conner is one of the new age Horsemen of Athiesm
i have a sneaking suspicion that he will turn theist in his late 30s or early 40s
I was just thinking this. Don't know who else I would put beside him tho
Don’t know if he’s “atheist enough” for the atheist community.
I think he is the best representative of a sceptic who can respect the other side though.
@@nuanceatnoon Indeed
Honestly I thought Alex to be somewhat of an intellectual comedian given the way he delivers his explanations on certain topics.
Idk why they're getting so offended at Alex saying slot machines are a bit weird. I feel the same way. They're super exploitative by scientifically manipulating human emotions to profit off them with lights and sounds. It's just so direct.
Love Alex so much.. My favorite intellictusl
in my opinion consciousness is something self sufficient like it can energize it self, talk to someone by itself, think and move by itself.
Loved this fantastic conversation so very much; will watch it again. You guys rock!!!
34:10 Challenge to the materialist accepted. I get the temptation to say, "Well, that mental triangle doesn’t exist physically, so materialism must be false." But the experience of picturing the triangle is rooted in physical processes in your brain (there’s a cascade of physical events every time you conjure that image - neurons fire, chemical signals flow). Materialism argues that everything about consciousness arises from these physical processes, not that every thought or image itself is a chunk of matter floating around in your head. Alex, think of it like software on a computer: you don’t open up a computer and find actual folders and icons in there, they’re representations made possible by circuits, chips, and programming. Your brain’s 'software' - (those immaterial images, concepts, thoughts) emerges from a system that’s entirely material. If you’re asking if materialism is true, it doesn’t necessarily require that every element of mind be material, only that every element originates in physical processes. So, in that sense, yes, materialism holds in my opinion.
You’re not into philosophy, unless you’re “balls deeps in analytic philosophy.” 😂🤘🏽 18:55
it's not the pursuit of happiness but the happiness of pursuit
One cow can easily feed 100 people, some argue 2000 people.
This is an incredibly interesting talk. A gratitude practice is like the reverse of the threat of something bad happening. It's good to do and helpful but not anywhere near as powerful as the relief that comes from being freed from something bad or gaining something really good. Maybe that is genuine appreciation.
Trent Horn debated Destiny on abortion and honestly yeah dude is good faith
Trent Horn?? absolutely not.
@@roundtabledetails3307Why?
@@KattaBingo if you listen to that abortion debate, Trent never answer directly to Destiny's questions.
@@roundtabledetails3307 Can you point to a question he never answered? Because I'm pretty sure destiny called him good faith even
My goat is here.
There was once a Chinese emperor who dreamt he was a fly. So convincing was the dream, he questioned whether he was a Chinese emperor who dreamt he was a fly, or a fly dreaming it was a Chinese emperor. 🤷♂️😆🤔
Graham don’t try to sell things you don’t believe in. You are a finance guy in your heart.
Alex is awesome, love the way he thinks
That was by far the cutest video to discuss factory farming I've ever watched.
Alex! Skating video next pls!
+1
Alex is awesome, questions are shallow
Re: 'Asking how you know obvious things is really important'.
The issue is rather:
'Quite generally, the familiar, just because it is familiar, is not cognitively understood. The commonest way in which
we deceive either ourselves or others about understanding is by assuming something as familiar, and accepting it on that
account; with all its pros and cons, such knowing never gets anywhere, and it knows not why. Subject and object, God,
Nature, Understanding, sensibility, and so on, are uncritically taken for granted as familiar, established as valid, and made
into fixed points for starting and stopping. While these remain unmoved, the knowing activity goes back and forth between
them, thus moving only on their surface. Apprehending and testing likewise consist in seeing whether everybody's impression of the matter coincides with what is asserted about these fixed points, whether it seems that way to him or not'.
- Hegel, 'Phenomenology of Spirit', 1807.
Hegelian speculative philosophy begins by defamiliarizing the familiar, the familiar is an obstacle to knowledge.
Knowledge can be learned. Wisdom has to be experienced.
Great guest and conversation.
1:28:56 My favorite moment, when Alex transforms into Jordan Peter's son
"I'm just not sure what meaning means"
"Well what do you mean by mean?"
"What do _YOU_ mean by mean?"
etc.
Incredible guest!
On Alex’s gambling example to examine meaning -
What people want, at least in that context, is dopamine. They want to genuinely believe that they can win, because it’s the expectation that you’re just about to win that spikes dopamine
Absolutely great convo guys! 👏
It’s quite easy to have a computer think of a triangle
you think computers are sentient?
the computer doent think, it calculates
Yeah but it doesnt perceive that triangle.
@@SlightSmile That's not true, game engines have camera systems, to calculate physical based rendering of triangles scaled within in a given perspective.
@@NicholasWilliams-h3j But does it have the ability to interpret and genuinely understand what it is seeing? Not really, it's just a collection of bytes arranged arbitrarily and via software we make it such that those bytes happen to represent a particular image or color. But how possibly could that machine actually "perceive" that object within it's own existence? It has no way of knowing what it's own data actually represents outside it's own existence.
Most Erie openings you guys have had
Everytime I hear alex get deep with meaning, ive readjusted my world view
First time on this podcast. Jack has ridiculous eyes. Had to get it out. Like a disney princess. I am straight i swear.
Nails on a chalkboard having such a harsh transition with terrible midwit questions after Alex starts getting to interesting places
Damn
Sometimes a podcast can get to unique places by asking about the basics
The questions were good. The way Alex was answering each question wasn’t very involved, which is very atypical from his usual conversations.
This would be a much different podcast. You're projecting so much of yourself on to this expectation. Extremely entitled take. Start your own podcast and what YOU think are better questions. Clearly you think you'd be better than them... you'd have a youtube career ahead of you doing more of what you do simply in your free time. Or maybe you just don't understand this perspective that this podcast has of the internet and the normal audience this attracts and deals to entertain. I guaruntee you the speed of this, allowing for much more hypotheticals to be addressed, attracted many people further into philosophy that hadn't at first. I'm not sure how you come here expecting this to go much more into depth with all of those subjects. You seem to be viewing this as the "next episode of Alex" when it's simply not and couldn't be. It's the FIRST episode of Alex in this particular space and a good one at that if you're able to follow along. And dude... if this podcast sparks more interest further into these topics, then the podcast, quite literally, did exactly what it was meant to. Sorry if this is your first day on the internet...
@@zeph3070 They're good questions, but it is frustrating when Alex brings up something interesting and they instantly switch to something else without addressing what he'd just said. Like they were asking him how could you steal something without there being a victim. And Alex lays out a pretty good scenario, where the man couldnt afford it, the food was going to be thrown out anyway, but they still couldn't give it away because then they'd have to give it away to people who had enough to pay.
This example really challenges that worldview that all forms of theft have a victim. The company wouldn't have lost any profit, that bread was going to be tossed anyway. Instead of engaging with this though, they just move on. There are a number of other times this happens, where it seems like they could keep it going, and they just don't. It's annoying.
Also, it's ridiculous to say you can't criticize a podcast unless you've got a successful podcast yourself. If you watch a movie and it sucks, are you not allowed to say that unless you've made your own multi-million dollar blockbuster? Or if you eat a meal that tastes like shit, are you not allowed to complain until you become a world renowned chef?
About the first trolley question, pull the lever halfway and hopefully the trolley will derail. You might want to jam the lever with nearby rocks and hold on for dear life.
Thanks for bringing in Alex!
very nice table
I like his questions. It shows how shallow jack and graham thinking is and wrong
Alex is great - thanks for the podcast!
You're missing the point of why Ben Shapiro does those "debates" at college campuses. He is 100% out there to promote his ideals, values, and beliefs.
Can you guys for the love of god stop censoring even the most mild “shock” words?? Like, “kill”?
How hugry can you guys be for milking the most CPM out of a video?
alex is awesome, great guest
Wow, I'd say this melted my brain, but is it more accurate to say "mind" instead