Little Cup always has such a distinct flavor compared to other metagames, a horde of glass cannon children pummeling each other at a pace that would make the grown-ups nervous. Eviolite feels like the protective equipment their parents would make them wear so they don't get badly hurt.
it's nice that while Eviolite is extremely good, there are some items out there that challenge it. Life Orb with its tiny HP cost, Berry Juice for a near full heal, Focus Sash which is always good, there's a lot of good items that can pop up out of nowhere. Before it got banned, berry juice belly drum E-Speed Zigzagoon was incredibly fun. You had to build your entire team around it, but if you got your 1 safe turn of set up (and got rid of their checks ahead of time), you literally just win lmao
Yeah, but not every single mon that can run it always does. If a mon has knock off, I'd say 90% it's being run in lc, and it's not top 3, it's top 1 for me.
I got into LC a few months ago, and I really liked it for a while. I got up to around 1200-1300, and developed my own team. The thing that made me switch to other lower metas like ZU or RU is how samey all the teams are lately. I feel like every single team has the same 6 pokemon. Variety is what made LC interesting at the start, and without that variety it feels stale. I hope things change in the meta soon to make higher ranked players use different mons, since the actual gameplay of LC is really neat to me
No that's honestly *EXACTLY* how I feel. It's just a little boring when almost every team has stunky or ghastly, mienfoo, vullaby, hisuian voltorb, mudbray, and foongus or mareanie. It's rather stagnant, and although I love LC, it gets boring quick.
@@LemonLittleCup I'd be interested to see how smogon can go about helping this, or if a change just has to happen organically within the community. I agreed with the snivy ban, but i dont think that meinfoo, mudbray, H volt, or vullaby are so strong that they need a ban from LC. outside of just banning mons idk what can be done. I also don't think introducing an item clause would help more than it would hurt.
@@Auerry Ghastly is being suspected right now, but yeah there's nothing they really can do in my eyes. An item clause doesn't feel necessary or even wanted for me at least, so I don't know. I think little cup is just inherently flawed (but maybe that's a video for the future.)
@@LemonLittleCup Yeah that's kinda been my unfortunate conclusion too. For other formats, like OU, you can ban whichever mons you want from it and they go into ubers, and you can pull any mons from lower tiers to be used in OU to shake things up; but when you ban a mon from LC it just kinda goes back into being useless in all other formats, and there is no lower format than LC to pull from. What I think you end up with is a shrinking pool of pokemon that you can use, and with a notable portion of the pokemon allowed in LC being absolutely useless (like burmy, caterpie, wurmple, etc) I think the meta just naturally evolves into "the same 6 pokemon" out of necessity due to such a small selection pool. I'd honestly be interested in smogon trying out a some variety of spinoff formats to LC, where they have required low levels and specific requirements for pokemon to fit within it. The idea behind LC is very fun, but I'm afraid that this stagnation just comes from some inherent flaws to the format. Still doesn't mean people can't or won't have fun in it, but the meta for it might not ever naturally evolve.
Eviolite basically invalidated Choice Band/Specs by making OHKOs on prediction nearly impossible. You still see Scarf because of the tiny variance in speed making nearly any mon a good scarfer, but there's never a reason to run Band/Specs over Life Orb. Not being able to switch moves is too exploitable.
I often hear people talking about LC just shorthand the explanation or blame the attacks. I feel like the easy and accurate way to explain it is just “Pokémon’s stats grow as they level, because Hp and your Def/SpDef both make you tankier, but only your Attack/SpAttack makes you hit harder, pokemon get beefier more than they get more damaging as they get to higher levels.”
Damage also scales with the level stat though. A Pokemon with a high level does more damage even with the same stats. It's just level damage scales mostly slower than stat damage.
1:28 you don't need to know the damage formula. All you need to know in order to understand what is happening is that when the result is a fractions damage is always rounded up. That one HP makes a very big difference on level five Pokemon but hardly noticeable on level 50 Pokemon.
Hearing that LC distanced itself from the other tiers by focusing on Knock Off seems absurd to me, seeing as how Knock Off is one of, if not the, best moves in the game.
It's always better to have *some* defensive play. Removing all defensive measures makes for a meta that is solely hyper offense, which can be fun, but becomes incredibly boring if it lasts long enough and there aren't any alternatives. Especially in a tier such as LC, that defensive play is necessary for the health of the tier.
It's like the debate on Snorlax being in OU in G2. Tbh, banning the item that makes a team's strong point would make games boring. Like, we're not gonna make a Little Cup Ubers where one teammate gets an eviolite
One thing that should be mentioned is that baby pokemon almost always have a combination of lower HP and Defenses (and a Pokemon's bulk is a combination of those two stats) so even attacks from Pokemon that have "average" base att/spA stats tend to hit harder. Eviolite mitigates the above issue somewhat and prevents powerful attacks from 2HKOing something every single turn. Aside from the vast majority of pokemon in LC usually having atrocious bulk, even with investment.
I only just got into LC. My first team is a sun team despite it being a low tier strat. Still working out the kinks, but Stunky is a great heat rock lead. It gets both memento and explosion, so best case scenario I can set up a growth on Belsprout in the sun, or break a sash if I suspect sash lead. Scarf Charmander for raw power and consistent speed control. Tera ghost on both to surprise Mienshao or Meowth fake out ideas.
if we get rid of eviolite, then what items do the lc mons take? does everyone go berry juice/oran berry, scarf, or focus sash, instead of those or eviolite?
LC eviolite is pretty similar to old gen leftovers, they're both great defensive items that are usually the most impactful so they become a default option. you don't lose anything by having that, nor is it overpowered, it's just the most consistent option. life orb, sash, scarf and weather rocks are all viable too, and there's nothing stopping you from experimenting with other things. if you want to use unique sets then you need to find a niche that can only be solved with that set, rather than running funny things for the sake of it
The power levels doing more "effective damage" in terms of percentage is why I prefer lvl 50 formats as opposed to lvl 100 formats. It's a mor3 minor difference there, but still a difference.
Mix evolite with gaurd and power split like u can genuinely use guard split with shuckle on a lil cup Mon that has evolite on it and with all the boosts if u baton pass stuff into em they can kill legendaries it’s hilarious
Little Cup already has a breakneck pace, so I personally really enjoy how it slows it down some because I personally rely more on my patience, which is better with defensive play
Ngl I like it. I had a sand team before snivy ban. 5 eviolites and a choice scarf growlithe with sleep talk. I was only playing on low ladder but went 9-1 with it so pretty solid never fought a foongus though so never had the chance for a sleep talk choice scarf growlith switch in. I did in fact have a lot of cool plays from snivy and sandshrew snivy was the backbone ensuring I didn't lose to opposing snivys and other waters and grasses with a sand team. Terablast water leaf storm glare and synthesis made it hard to break through and understandably its variance in sets is part as to why it got banned. Still loved it though
Eviolite is awesome, but I gotta say: If you've ever played Little Cup, Eviolite is Busted. If you've ever played Competitive Pokemon in general, Eviolite is busted. If you are at least somewhat educated in Competitive Pokemon, Eviolite is busted. It is such a simple yet powerful item. It's really cool, even with the existence of knock off.
I got so bored of Gen 5 LC onward because of Eviolite and Berry Juice. The pure hyper offense of DPP LC is my favorite meta. It’s not all Eviolite and Berry Juice, it’s also just that every single team is the same Mienfoo Vullaby Pawniard Foongus shit that just outclasses all the shit options. In DPP LC, everything did so much damage that you could get away with so many silly picks because anything with 14 speed could run Scarf or Sash and hit something for like 60% min, and there was still counterplay because of immunities and tanky pokemon like Munchlax Bronzor. With Regenerator, Eviolite, and huge distribution of recovery moves, Mienfoo / Vullaby / Foongus / whatever people use now just never go the fuck away, while in Gen 4, the best pokémon (Gligar / Gastly) had either nothing or Oran Berry, so you could pretty consistently chip them and finish the job with a Scarf mon or priority. I really hope they release a petmod without Berry Juice and Eviolite. I really miss DPP LC.
Current day lc is the most boring slugfest ever, you are either running the exact same team as your opponent with minimal varistion or you are losing. People seem to underrate how fun the "silly picks" and crazy strategies make some tiers be
@@emperortoho explain. I’ve heard it said several times that Snorlax is the “glue that holds GSC OU together” but you could say that about any overpowered mon in any tier. Giratina Origin even got thrown into OU for a day as an April Fool’s joke and the tier worked pretty well. Pokeaim even made a video about it, it was very similar to lax.
@@emperortoho so they’ve effectively ran the meta as is for around 20 something years, banned lax for a summer tourney, then went “nah, the meta sucks without this mon and couldn’t possibly evolve past Blissey stall.” Sounds very scientific.
@@jcnot9712 there’s been a load of results the more i look into it some of em devolve into being dominated by zapdos and raikou instead for example the main problem is that in order to restabilize the meta after banning snorlax, you’d need to ban even more things, and it just isn’t worth it just to alienate the current playerbase who likes snorlax being in the game for a chance at drawing in maybe a few dozen people
What little cup are you playing? I never see endeavor and harvest, recycle I haven't seen once this gen, and sturdy is niche at best. Quick attack is really only used on doduo as well.
@@904funny Nah, you're thinking of using level one pokemon in level 100 tiers, Little cup is using unevolved pokemon against only other unevolved pokemon in a specific tier dedicated to it. What you're thinking of is refered to as FEAR.
Obviously, eviolite shouldn't be banned, but should item clause exist in little cup? It would make your user of eviolite more important and other items more important to a team
It would be cool and different, but in *my opinion* this might make the tier a little too fast, if that's possible. I'd love to see it tried out at some point, maybe a ltm or something
Eviolite basically invalidated Choice Band/Specs by making OHKOs on prediction nearly impossible. You still see Scarf because of the tiny variance in speed making nearly any mon a good scarfer, but there's never a reason to run Band/Specs over Life Orb. Not being able to switch moves is too exploitable.
Is this a certified Lemon Banger🗣🗣🗣?
Every video is🗣️🗣️🔥🔥
Little Cup always has such a distinct flavor compared to other metagames, a horde of glass cannon children pummeling each other at a pace that would make the grown-ups nervous. Eviolite feels like the protective equipment their parents would make them wear so they don't get badly hurt.
it's nice that while Eviolite is extremely good, there are some items out there that challenge it. Life Orb with its tiny HP cost, Berry Juice for a near full heal, Focus Sash which is always good, there's a lot of good items that can pop up out of nowhere. Before it got banned, berry juice belly drum E-Speed Zigzagoon was incredibly fun. You had to build your entire team around it, but if you got your 1 safe turn of set up (and got rid of their checks ahead of time), you literally just win lmao
For some reason, you’re making me imagine a Shedinja using a life orb now.
Bdrum Espeed linoone also did this shit in lower tiers in multiple gens
@@Brogan_L technically you are only using 1 hp for that
@@Brogan_Lshedinja life orb with full HP EV and IV
Let's just be glad no sturdy recycle mons exist
Your daily reminder that hiw little cup is a somewhat fast paced tier, and in gen 4 this was a a mile a minute without evolite
Knock off is at worst a top 3 move in every tier and gen.
Yeah, but not every single mon that can run it always does. If a mon has knock off, I'd say 90% it's being run in lc, and it's not top 3, it's top 1 for me.
Mix and Mega: 😳
I got into LC a few months ago, and I really liked it for a while. I got up to around 1200-1300, and developed my own team. The thing that made me switch to other lower metas like ZU or RU is how samey all the teams are lately. I feel like every single team has the same 6 pokemon. Variety is what made LC interesting at the start, and without that variety it feels stale. I hope things change in the meta soon to make higher ranked players use different mons, since the actual gameplay of LC is really neat to me
No that's honestly *EXACTLY* how I feel. It's just a little boring when almost every team has stunky or ghastly, mienfoo, vullaby, hisuian voltorb, mudbray, and foongus or mareanie. It's rather stagnant, and although I love LC, it gets boring quick.
@@LemonLittleCup I'd be interested to see how smogon can go about helping this, or if a change just has to happen organically within the community. I agreed with the snivy ban, but i dont think that meinfoo, mudbray, H volt, or vullaby are so strong that they need a ban from LC. outside of just banning mons idk what can be done. I also don't think introducing an item clause would help more than it would hurt.
@@Auerry Ghastly is being suspected right now, but yeah there's nothing they really can do in my eyes. An item clause doesn't feel necessary or even wanted for me at least, so I don't know. I think little cup is just inherently flawed (but maybe that's a video for the future.)
@@LemonLittleCup Yeah that's kinda been my unfortunate conclusion too. For other formats, like OU, you can ban whichever mons you want from it and they go into ubers, and you can pull any mons from lower tiers to be used in OU to shake things up; but when you ban a mon from LC it just kinda goes back into being useless in all other formats, and there is no lower format than LC to pull from. What I think you end up with is a shrinking pool of pokemon that you can use, and with a notable portion of the pokemon allowed in LC being absolutely useless (like burmy, caterpie, wurmple, etc) I think the meta just naturally evolves into "the same 6 pokemon" out of necessity due to such a small selection pool.
I'd honestly be interested in smogon trying out a some variety of spinoff formats to LC, where they have required low levels and specific requirements for pokemon to fit within it. The idea behind LC is very fun, but I'm afraid that this stagnation just comes from some inherent flaws to the format. Still doesn't mean people can't or won't have fun in it, but the meta for it might not ever naturally evolve.
LCUU when
Eviolite basically invalidated Choice Band/Specs by making OHKOs on prediction nearly impossible. You still see Scarf because of the tiny variance in speed making nearly any mon a good scarfer, but there's never a reason to run Band/Specs over Life Orb. Not being able to switch moves is too exploitable.
I often hear people talking about LC just shorthand the explanation or blame the attacks. I feel like the easy and accurate way to explain it is just “Pokémon’s stats grow as they level, because Hp and your Def/SpDef both make you tankier, but only your Attack/SpAttack makes you hit harder, pokemon get beefier more than they get more damaging as they get to higher levels.”
Damage also scales with the level stat though. A Pokemon with a high level does more damage even with the same stats.
It's just level damage scales mostly slower than stat damage.
@@michael_bettsalso lower level pokemom aren't usually using high BP attacks like Draco meteor in normal play
1:28 you don't need to know the damage formula. All you need to know in order to understand what is happening is that when the result is a fractions damage is always rounded up.
That one HP makes a very big difference on level five Pokemon but hardly noticeable on level 50 Pokemon.
That upper hand read was clean ngl
I was praying someone would notice that lol
Hearing that LC distanced itself from the other tiers by focusing on Knock Off seems absurd to me, seeing as how Knock Off is one of, if not the, best moves in the game.
Smash
That frank joke made me laugh out loud
My mind is blank, in brawl stars I'm Frank.
lemon always making genuine bangers
It's always better to have *some* defensive play. Removing all defensive measures makes for a meta that is solely hyper offense, which can be fun, but becomes incredibly boring if it lasts long enough and there aren't any alternatives. Especially in a tier such as LC, that defensive play is necessary for the health of the tier.
LC is already repetitive and stale enough for me right now, the last thing I need is to have 0 switch ins into a max attack mudbray every game.
If it werent, gastly scarf or feint meowth banded Would be meta
It's like the debate on Snorlax being in OU in G2. Tbh, banning the item that makes a team's strong point would make games boring. Like, we're not gonna make a Little Cup Ubers where one teammate gets an eviolite
One thing that should be mentioned is that baby pokemon almost always have a combination of lower HP and Defenses (and a Pokemon's bulk is a combination of those two stats) so even attacks from Pokemon that have "average" base att/spA stats tend to hit harder.
Eviolite mitigates the above issue somewhat and prevents powerful attacks from 2HKOing something every single turn. Aside from the vast majority of pokemon in LC usually having atrocious bulk, even with investment.
Imagine if Eviolite has effects on fully evolve mons but the defense boost is 25% instead of 50%.
Obligatory shuckle comment.
lowkey better av
I only just got into LC. My first team is a sun team despite it being a low tier strat. Still working out the kinks, but Stunky is a great heat rock lead. It gets both memento and explosion, so best case scenario I can set up a growth on Belsprout in the sun, or break a sash if I suspect sash lead. Scarf Charmander for raw power and consistent speed control. Tera ghost on both to surprise Mienshao or Meowth fake out ideas.
What about a 2 item clause, similar to the 2ac in AAA
Why don’t they just ban eviolite, and to balance, they ban all moves above 60 or 70 BP?😅
if we get rid of eviolite, then what items do the lc mons take? does everyone go berry juice/oran berry, scarf, or focus sash, instead of those or eviolite?
Choice band and choice specs might become actually usable
LC eviolite is pretty similar to old gen leftovers, they're both great defensive items that are usually the most impactful so they become a default option. you don't lose anything by having that, nor is it overpowered, it's just the most consistent option. life orb, sash, scarf and weather rocks are all viable too, and there's nothing stopping you from experimenting with other things. if you want to use unique sets then you need to find a niche that can only be solved with that set, rather than running funny things for the sake of it
The power levels doing more "effective damage" in terms of percentage is why I prefer lvl 50 formats as opposed to lvl 100 formats. It's a mor3 minor difference there, but still a difference.
0:18 soul dew in gen 3-6:
Mix evolite with gaurd and power split like u can genuinely use guard split with shuckle on a lil cup Mon that has evolite on it and with all the boosts if u baton pass stuff into em they can kill legendaries it’s hilarious
Little Cup already has a breakneck pace, so I personally really enjoy how it slows it down some because I personally rely more on my patience, which is better with defensive play
Ngl I like it. I had a sand team before snivy ban.
5 eviolites and a choice scarf growlithe with sleep talk.
I was only playing on low ladder but went 9-1 with it so pretty solid never fought a foongus though so never had the chance for a sleep talk choice scarf growlith switch in.
I did in fact have a lot of cool plays from snivy and sandshrew snivy was the backbone ensuring I didn't lose to opposing snivys and other waters and grasses with a sand team. Terablast water leaf storm glare and synthesis made it hard to break through and understandably its variance in sets is part as to why it got banned.
Still loved it though
Eviolite is awesome, but I gotta say:
If you've ever played Little Cup, Eviolite is Busted. If you've ever played Competitive Pokemon in general, Eviolite is busted. If you are at least somewhat educated in Competitive Pokemon, Eviolite is busted. It is such a simple yet powerful item. It's really cool, even with the existence of knock off.
I got so bored of Gen 5 LC onward because of Eviolite and Berry Juice. The pure hyper offense of DPP LC is my favorite meta.
It’s not all Eviolite and Berry Juice, it’s also just that every single team is the same Mienfoo Vullaby Pawniard Foongus shit that just outclasses all the shit options. In DPP LC, everything did so much damage that you could get away with so many silly picks because anything with 14 speed could run Scarf or Sash and hit something for like 60% min, and there was still counterplay because of immunities and tanky pokemon like Munchlax Bronzor. With Regenerator, Eviolite, and huge distribution of recovery moves, Mienfoo / Vullaby / Foongus / whatever people use now just never go the fuck away, while in Gen 4, the best pokémon (Gligar / Gastly) had either nothing or Oran Berry, so you could pretty consistently chip them and finish the job with a Scarf mon or priority.
I really hope they release a petmod without Berry Juice and Eviolite. I really miss DPP LC.
Current day lc is the most boring slugfest ever, you are either running the exact same team as your opponent with minimal varistion or you are losing. People seem to underrate how fun the "silly picks" and crazy strategies make some tiers be
@@bernardops7138 I just watched some replays of the latest tournament and it looks so depressingly bland.
Liked, commented, and subscribed again (not possible... unless... 😳👉👈)! Ty for the content. :D
Frank 😶 well It's rare to see brawl references in other videos
Same reason GSC won’t ban Snorlax: they’ve arbitrarily decided it’s okay for this broken thing to stay in the meta lol
with lax they’ve figured out multiple times that the meta is even WORSE without him around
@@emperortoho explain. I’ve heard it said several times that Snorlax is the “glue that holds GSC OU together” but you could say that about any overpowered mon in any tier. Giratina Origin even got thrown into OU for a day as an April Fool’s joke and the tier worked pretty well. Pokeaim even made a video about it, it was very similar to lax.
@@jcnot9712 according to the results of a snorlax-less tourney a while back, blissey became omnipresent and the tier turned into a stallfest
@@emperortoho so they’ve effectively ran the meta as is for around 20 something years, banned lax for a summer tourney, then went “nah, the meta sucks without this mon and couldn’t possibly evolve past Blissey stall.” Sounds very scientific.
@@jcnot9712 there’s been a load of results the more i look into it
some of em devolve into being dominated by zapdos and raikou instead for example
the main problem is that in order to restabilize the meta after banning snorlax, you’d need to ban even more things, and it just isn’t worth it just to alienate the current playerbase who likes snorlax being in the game for a chance at drawing in maybe a few dozen people
Wait,is there a middle cup or something,if it has,why is not popular
Eviolite should never be banned, as the bulk boost it provides slows the pace of the game to something more tolerable.
Whats songs where used in the vid, both of them bang but the description doesnt seem to have the right music
Shoot, I'll fix that lol, my bad
It's in the description now, but it's called Jubilife Village Vibes
whats the song at the start of the video? i feel like i recognize it
Jubilife Village Vibes, in the description (just added it,) might seem recognizable if you've seen some of my older videos
I don’t play comp but is Knock Off bad in other tiers?
Not bad, one of the best moves in fact. But in little cup, it's irrefutably the very best
i agree that eviolite is goated in lc, but lefties clears anywhere else :P
how is it broken? it balances out the power diff. guess ill have to watch the video🙄
ok ya it is very centralizing, and if an item clause were implemented the tier would be completely different
@@emptywisdoms Yeah lol the entire tier is just eviolite. Not unbalanced, well-balanced in fact, but broken
Little Cup stopped being fun for me because of: Endeavor, Quick Attack, Sturdy, Harvest, and Recycle
What little cup are you playing? I never see endeavor and harvest, recycle I haven't seen once this gen, and sturdy is niche at best. Quick attack is really only used on doduo as well.
@@LemonLittleCup Usually involves Rattata, Tailow, Magnemite, Aron, and Phantump
@@904funny Nah, you're thinking of using level one pokemon in level 100 tiers, Little cup is using unevolved pokemon against only other unevolved pokemon in a specific tier dedicated to it. What you're thinking of is refered to as FEAR.
Obviously, eviolite shouldn't be banned, but should item clause exist in little cup? It would make your user of eviolite more important and other items more important to a team
It would be cool and different, but in *my opinion* this might make the tier a little too fast, if that's possible. I'd love to see it tried out at some point, maybe a ltm or something
I like stall. :(
Damn, Little Cups probably not your tier then
The eviolite should never have existed. Bad for lore.
Its*
Oh shoot
It should be banned.
To be fair
1.5x of like 20 is 25
30
first
Eviolite basically invalidated Choice Band/Specs by making OHKOs on prediction nearly impossible. You still see Scarf because of the tiny variance in speed making nearly any mon a good scarfer, but there's never a reason to run Band/Specs over Life Orb. Not being able to switch moves is too exploitable.
first
Skill issue