Ironically, if the movie had continued, I get the feeling that they potentially would have been as they then completely understood each other. But yes, the initial read by Alex was funny as hell.
During the “not quite my tempo” scene Andrew was perfectly on time, but fletcher was saying he wasn’t because he was immediately beginning to manipulate him
@@sir.sleepsalot2711if you put the audio of neiman behind a metronome/click track, he’s perfectly on time with the clicks, but fletcher doesn’t actually care he wants to manipulate him. Think about when he said that one kid was off key and then later said he wasn’t actually off key but him not knowing that was just as bad
This is hands down one of my favorite J.K Simmons performances. I’ve seen genocidal villains in movies that were not nearly as sadistic as Terrence Fletcher
I never noticed until now that during Andrew's first hazing, the core drummer looks confused as all hell because he's counting along and keeps giving Fletcher the side eye because even he knows Andrew is playing at the right tempo.
Actually, Andrew playing in ritght tempo only in first and the last attempt, in ALL attempts between he plays not in the tempo, starting on hi-hat instead snare drum. Just listening.
And yet the drummer also knows he can’t speak up and say anything because he’ll have something thrown at his head Fletcher is a total psycho who rules through fear
So much character work hidden right before your eyes in this movie, the popcorn scene with his dad avoiding conflict, the way Andrew falls down the stairs running to rehearsals foreshadowing the bigger accident later on in the movie, Fletcher very carefully manipulating Andrew by giving him just enough just to then take it all away. This movie is a whole experience
and the way fletcher destroys his confidence by constantly giving andrew two choices or implies he wants him to do something then which ever choice he chooses or whether he does it or not, hes wrong either way. plus the fact fletcher purposefully mispronounces his name to undermine him right from the start and how andrew mentions the music in the pizza store before the pizza, foreshadowing him prioritizing his music career over her (or anything else). genuinely such a good movie
@@spencerwattamaniuk950it would have but unfortunately a better film beat it, birdman (or the unexpected virtue of ignorance) beautiful beautiful movie that also basically said fuck you to all the movie critics and was about the expression of art as a while
He said "come play with us". Four words that the national football league would never use. He was annoyed because his family was more proud of mediocre athleticism than his professional level of musical education.@@elmurodolimov772
Alex, just wanted to say this. The amount of detail that you got from this movie is just insane. You almost nailed all the themes and sub textual messaging that the film tried to convey. Big fan and much love❤
You understood the movie very early on. Teller's character was willing to do ANYTHING to be great, including going back to his abuser to earn his respect. The teacher wanted to find the next GREAT jazz player. Nothing more. The look the father gave through the door at the end was the realization that his son was lost to him.
I think it was the knowledge that Fletcher had won, but also just him comprehending the monster talent his son actually possessed. Because his father is so happy with the middle, he figured his son was ok with that level of effort towards life as well & seeing that his son had that level of drive & talent made him realize that he was essentially ‘seeing’ his son for the first time.
@@deafheaven99I agree, I think his whole life his dad had his back, but this is the first time he actually saw him, the true and talented person his son is.
39:09 - this is the best moment in the movie. His father finally saw his son for who he actually is and it terrified him, because Andrew is not this little meek boy who can't make eye contact with people and sits at a table quietly eating nasty overcooked fish, but a monster who just needed the proper guidance that his incompetent, uninspiring and complacent self could never give Andrew. Amazing writing.
Finally a reactor that finally understood the villian won in this movie! His dads shocked face at the end realizing he lost his son and the bad guy of the story won
You literally didn’t watch the video 😂 they both won you fool. Andrew got what he wanted and strived for the entire movie. He understood the sacrifices required to be great, and he achieved it. His dad’s look was not just of horror, but also realisation that his son is not ordinary like him, and that his son is actually extraordinarily talented.
This is the one film where I've seen it said "the audience mistakes the ending as a success when it was actually the bad ending. Tellers character gave up his entire life to give Fletcher the happy ending"
I think calling it a bad ending is also reductive, it rubs all the nuance out. This is a move about someone becoming a great drummer and by the end he has. If we look at La La Land, written around the same time also by Damien Chazelle, it also has an ending like this and calling the La La Land ending a bad ending is just wrong. Both characters achieve their dreams to say its a bad ending is just wrong.
That’s what I thought too until Alex analysis. From Andrew’s point of view, it’s also a « happy » ending. He strives for perfection and that’s what he got.
The ending is actually pretty tragic. The whole movie is about how much you need to sacrifice to be the best of the best. You hate Fletcher and his abusive teaching throughout the movie, calling him names and all. The fact is that Andrew would have never been on the level he is if it wasn't for Fletcher. Therefore the final look they exchange is basically "I was right, you fuck, I made you the best of the best and all the things I have done, including bullying a student to death, was worth it". A tragic end with a smile on everyone's face.
IMO it’s more about how sacrificing everything can make you the best at a detriment of your own health but that’s not necessarily the only nor the correct way. Fletcher ruins his students in hopes that one of the greats won’t back down, Andrew had that greatness within him all fletcher did was almost ruin his career as a musician.
It's the son's responsibility to save his father from the belly of the beast. Pinocchio, Star Wars, Back to the Future. I don't think he lost his son. "That IS my son"
This movie triggered some painful memories. The strictest teachers are always those that can act the most friendly. I clearly remember how after my friend was questioned and had to leave the classroom after it, my teacher asked: "Why is she crying? It's not like I bite."
I've gone through similar things in the past, and it's seriously dulled my interest in academia. I grew up with people saying I'd write a killer thesis, that any professor would be thrilled to have me as a student, but my thesis director's approach to research methodology was absolutely fucking bonkers. A Master's isn't that long; it's three years with maybe six months out of the whole lot dedicated to lectures, but my syllabus was crammed with so much required reading I had barely any time left for research. I remember snapping after a year, showing my syllabus to what would've been my second choice for a thesis director, and the guy basically went "Oh. You went with the other guy, right?" I'd soon learn that my director was well known for pushing his students to their limits, if their thesis subject happened to fall in his favourite fields. He expected a Doctorate-level monography crammed in the same space as six Undergrad essays, which isn't nearly enough. He wasn't abusive, but he absolutely wasn't realistic. After I started losing track of my rewrites and edits and the times he told me to start over, I basically made the choice Neiman didn't make: I edited my last copy for typos, cleaned things out, and handed in a copy my director called "complete shit" to the review board. There were three other professors on the board, and all of them felt like my director had pressured them. One of them started out nice, but kept catching withering glances from my lecturer - so her tone changed during the review. The other two caught the message - called it lacklustre. I passed, barely, but I figured self-respect and mental health matter more than trying to reach some other guy's impossible goals of research-related thoroughness and decent penmanship. Ironically, I was writing a thesis on H.P. Lovecraft's own unrealistic expectations towards his works, his society - and his worldview in general. Another guy who nearly drove himself nuts trying to insurmountably seek out perfection.
@@McSquiddington the worst thing is that those kinds of teachers are always left to do whatever they want without consequences, because of their reputations as brilliant people. I was able to barely survive, but many others weren't so lucky and had given up.
This movie really is a phenomenal tale of how the strive for perfection can actually destroy your life, Andrew was willing to do anything to be the best drummer but at the cost of mentally draining himself of everything he had, he cut himself off from his girlfriend, distanced himself from his dad etc. He became a great drummer but at what cost? And I think the parallels are very strong because his dad and his girlfriend are just chill, everyday people who don’t think too hard about things and just go with the flow, they wanna teach him to be like that and become a normal person who just enjoys life again but they can’t because he’s too obsessive, in other words he’s just like Fletcher, Fletcher is kind of a showcase of what Andrew will be like if he stays on this path, and so it’s hard to tell if the movie ends on a positive note because you don’t know if you should be happy that he got Fletcher’s approval or sad because you’re essentially seeing another person be poisoned by obsessiveness
The drummer they reference as being the greatest of all time, died from a drug overdose while still rather young (late 20s or early 30s IIRC). The ending is hinting at the same ending for Andrew some years in the near future. Even the director of the film has publicly said that is what happens to that character after the film ends.
@@blacksheep_edge1412which Andrew was aware of and prepared for. He said it in the dinner table scene. He’s destined for greatness and he knows the consequences of that.
My father is a jazz musician and he routinely cut himself off from his family to the point of abuse. And for what? He never became the great jazz musician he always wanted to be. Instead he alienated himself from his entire family and my mother divorced his ass when I was young.
@@blacksheep_edge1412Charlie Parker played saxophone, not drums. The drummer Andrew is listening to on the boombox in rehearsal, Buddy Rich, had a 50 year career,lived to nearly 70, and is considered the greatest jazz drummer of all time.
3:03 I’m glad you picked up on the popcorn scene. THIS is a masterclass in character development and screenwriting. SHOW don’t tell. The audience isn’t as stupid as studios like to think we are. His dad having no ambition, avoiding conflict, and never standing up for himself is all told directly via his actions instead of some character doing exposition work and telling us this.
J.K. Simmons is one hell of a performance in this movie. His acting was really scary and intense. He even won for Best Supporting Actor in Oscars, BAFTA Award, and Golden Globe. He's the right casting choice to play as an abusive teacher in this movie. This movie kick started my love of jazz music since I first watched it and it has always been one of my favourites of all time.
Turning Aaron into an editor/on-screen producer is a good idea. You two are like if a couple of gooch-loving brothers got separated at birth and then reunited at a drunkard's BBQ party.
@@isaachorstmann9749 Your gooch is elite. Yes, I mean every word. Its a prize-winning gooch, I wanna put a frame on it and charge 69 bucks for admission. And 420 bucks if they want to slap it.
I remember when this movie came out, my percussion director looked at us and said, "If I ever end up acting like the teacher in Whiplash, throw your sticks at me and walk out." He was obviously joking, but looking back with nearly 10 years of separation from it, I can see why no one would want to be like him. Mr.Wheeler you rocked, and no, you were never a Fletcher.
@@brichards9293I would rather there never be any “greats” in the world who were abused by Fletcher-like teachers if that meant them continuing to live.
Heyyyy, @funnylilgalreacts -- one of my favorite reactors popping up on another of my faves. I love it. I really enjoyed your reaction to this movie (including your nearly irrational love of J.K. Simmons, who deserves all the praise)
Lifelong percussionist, I still have scars on my hands from the endless hours I had to spend practicing for some parts of like an All-State or honor band because the music can get pretty insane to follow at certain levels of skill
I’ll never forget having to keep bandaids on my left ring finger when I would play with traditional grip. Had callouses for years. I haven’t played in over a decade now.. I miss it.
I think this is the best breakdown of Whiplash I've seen!!! I watched professional drummers and psychiatrists break this down and I think the insights you provided edged out over them! The mediocre dad was something I never realized till you pointed out so that added a new level of depth for me, thanks! I watched a breaksown of a professional drummer say that Miles Teller was on the right tempo when Fletcher was yelling if he was rushing or dragging. Fletcher did all that crap just to get in the kid's head.
You ever see a drummer go super saiyan? The thing about Andrew's dad is that yeah, he might live a mediocre life, but he's happy. And in seeing his son, truly, for the first time at the end, seeing the perfection he is not only chasing, but achieving, he knows his son might attain the perfection he's trying for, but he'll never be happy.
You don't credit yourself enough about this, but you are (almost always) VERY good at realizing what is going on, even subtle things! That's why you are my favorite reactor!
The thing about Alex is that he is very clued in on certain aspects of the movies he watches, but hilariously clueless on others. It is amazing how completely he misses the point of so many scenes in the shows and movies he reacts to. But he was laser-focused on this one, more so than almost any I've seen from him.
@@debestcanadian Nailed it lol. Sometimes he *completely* misses the mark because he's too busy talking and misses what's actually happening, which is hilarious
As a classical musician who went to a music conservatory and has had several teachers just like Fletcher, lemme tell you that this movie is just so spot-on. The not-quite praise mixed with degradation, the intense craving for their approval, even though you lowkey hate their guts, the constant breakdowns because you’re starting to doubt your own talent, etc. I know they probably didn’t mean for it to be that way, but Fletcher is just extremely triggering and for that reason, I’ve only ever watched it once. Brilliant movie and performances from everyone in it, though.
I have a similar background to you, and excepting the physical abuse it is all too accurate. And in the old days there was the abuse including the sexual abuse of students by power mad teachers.
Triumphant ending but it’s far from a happy one. Wrote an article about it for CBR a few months ago. Wildly good movie. For music/drumming, also give a go to La La Land (same director, you’ll recognize some editing techniques) and Birdman (or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance). If you’re getting into psychology, Birdman would be right up your alley. Great reaction as always!
I've been on his Patreon for a year now and all i can say is..... Have fun watching Clone Wars season 3 in a few weeks while we are currently in the middle of season 5.
40:57 I see what your saying about his dad, but the way I saw it was the slight tension release made him realize the hard-work his son has put into this drumming career. Before at the dinner, they were bragging about football and thinking music was just a time passing hobby and the only way to be successful (at least in that family) was to be a big football star and they never understood the time, effort and determination that Andrew put into his music career.
The pressure to succeed in such a technical field encourages near-robotic levels of ability, and can drain the soul out of performing without the proper balance and people to help tether your perspective. In pursuit of perfection, it is easy to lose sight of how far you progress along the way, and ultimately, it's a dragon that you''l end up chasing forever. Passion can easily slip into obsession, and even if there isn't a Fletcher in your life influencing the way you approach your art, that Fletcher can just as easily exist within your own mind. Always remember where you came from in your pursuit for success and remember that art is about love and connection. Savor the process and the joy of creation, rather than what you think the rewards of your efforts will be. Never sacrifice integrity and well-being for results.
Yeah, i remember watching a video called "the misleading ending of whiplash" and there were quotes from the director of the film, "there's nothing redeemable about Fletcher" and if i remember correctly said "the ending is tragic because fletcher in the end gets what he wants" he went on to say that "Neiman would likely go on to be a great drummer but would meet an early end like Fletcher's other student" the director said this was inspired by the fact he had to deal with an abusive teacher as a jazz drummer also. The comments on the vid made good points too. The silence at the end tells you all you need to know, there was no applause, no outward validation. The look on the dad's face was that of horror, realizing he lost his son to Fletcher. And another comment i saw was 1 pointing out that these types of abusive relationships, those moments of happiness and relief are needed because those moments keep the person from running away from those toxic relationships. Also, at the end of the vid, the person made an excellent comparison to this and the crunch time of videogame developers. Cyberpunk 2077 had insane amounts of crunch and in the end it came out a broken mess and got taken off the playstation store for who knows how many months, the newer ratchet and clank game came out a masterpiece and there was 0 crunch time, whereas the witcher 3 came out great too but also had insane amounts of crunch so it being good made the crunch less noticeable which correlates to a situation like Neiman's, you go through an abusive teacher and you either come out of it incredible or you come out a broken mess that's not even good at what you do.
It’s not tragic. It’s tragic to you because you’re ordinary. This is a movie about greatness and the sacrifice required to be great. Andrew got what he wanted and what he strived for the whole film. He knows the consequences and the likely outcome of his life, he literally said it in the dinner table scene. “I’d rather die drunk, broke at 34 and have people at a dinner table talk about me, than live to be rich and sober at 90 and nobody remembered who I was.”
@@FlareDope Something people don't understand is that when they finally achieve their goals all their problems don't just disappear and all of their wants don't disappear either and some feelings remain despite their achievements. Sacrifices for your goals are great as long as they're reasonable but self destructive behavior will limit you to just your goals which effectively made Neiman a human drum set. He said that at the dinner table because he's young and hasn't realized that there is more to life than drumming
@@captainalieth my comment is not “bait” is common sense and logic, backed up with evidence from the movie. If i tell you the sky is blue are you gonna say “bAiT uSeD tO bE bElIeVaBlE”
The director himself has classified it as a "tragedy", the final look on his dad's face showing fear that Andrew has chosen the path of insatiable ambition despite the costs.
I’m so glad you brought up the Dark Triad and explained it too. The one exception I would like to interject would be, Andrew made the choices to return. Andrew already displayed his own version of Narcissistic and Machiavellian tendencies too. His choice of schools. How he treated family over dinner. How he treated his girlfriend. He never wanted to fit in. He wanted, what he wanted at any cost. Even his self respect. In my humble opinion, it was the perfect storm of personalities coming together in this movie. I 100% agree with your diagnosis of Fletcher, but Andrew doesn’t get off Scott free here. He played his part because he wanted to play his part. Just my two cents.
I feel like he had the potential for that personality at the start, but it's Fletcher that really turned him into it. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people. It's a cycle of abuse and narcissism that self perpetuates.
He treated his family over dinner that way because they dismissed his talent and his achievements. Why remove context? Andrew wanted to achieve greatness, and that requires certain personality traits and sacrifices. Say what you want about him, but he achieved greatness. Meanwhile you are average. You’re an ordinary joe blogs.
@@FlareDope wow. I had no idea that I would incur such vitriol for merely expressing a point of view on the topic. I don’t know why my verbiage has brought out such ire from you on this thread. If you feel offended by my statement that is unfortunate. I was merely trying to participate in the discussion and offer an alternative perspective instead of dismissing someone else’s opinion or point of view. I didn’t know that merely participating in an open discussion would be met with such a dismissive attitude. For your sake, I will refrain from commenting on threads that you participate on. But, since I don’t know who we both follow on UA-cam, I guess I will just have to keep being myself. I will continue to make comments that are hopefully thought provoking and further open discussion. And you, I assume, will remain being … you. Either way, I wish you the best my friend. Peace be with you.
@@EricAntonsen-uz2tq Sorry buddy, the last part of my comment wasn’t meant seriously, I was joking. I appreciate and respect your perspective on the film. Apologies if you were offended and I wish you all the best.
That analysis was FANTASTIC! I learned so much in such a short period of time. Thank you so much for that! As for Fletcher, I have no problem with a teacher pushing my child. But if you EVER put hands on her … Let’s just say we’re gonna have problems and I’m gonna need bail money.
I love this film. Fletcher reminds me of my father I grew up with (i.e. not a good dude), but the way Simmons and Teller act in this is so powerful and it totally doesn't have me lingering on my past experiences with an admittedly similar man. It may sound counterintuitive, but I get *energy* from this film, rather than feeling pulled down into the emotional mud by it. The way Chazelle explores passion in relation to abuse is so unique. Simmons so deserved the Best Supporting Actor for it.
Fletcher is a sociopath. Anyone who thinks the end (1 in a million 'bird') justifies the means (pushing 999,999 people towards suicide) is insane just like Fletcher.
The thing you mentioned about half dark half light is actually all throughout the movie with green and yellow lighting. When I noticed this you really realize how amazing this was produced
I've been so excited for you to review this movie for so long because (no pun intended) it's such a banger. It is such a masterpiece in so many different ways, evokes so many complex emotions and really leaves you thinking about the movie after it is done. I loved your psychological assessment of Fletcher at the end as well, and am so happy that you are getting into Psychology on your own time! It was my major in university and brain is one of the most fascinating organs there is, to me.
I watched almost all of you videos and it’s very noticeable that you have developed a great sense of movie analysis over time. Love your channel, cheers
40:35 - I have been doing that for years myself. I am fascinated with psychology and philosophy, and I have been thinking about and analyzing Whiplash for hours and hours. If you ever want to have a conversation about it, hit me up I would be happy to dive deep into the meaning of the story.
Never watched Whiplash myself, just seen the viral clips, so reacting to it with you was fun. This was also one of the more fun reactions I've watched from you, enjoyed it a lot keep it up :)
I actually played semiprofessionally in a Jazz Band for quite a few years myself (selectional orchestra in our state), the same as Andrew kind of at the beginning of musical college. What I noticed is that Fletcher is actually kind of similar to Andrews Dad as well. Often times in music (jazz) the players who didn't make it big themself became conductors in their future or teachers/conductors, so you could kind of say Fletcher didn't achieve his own dreams of becoming a big one himself the same as Andrew's dad gave up on writing. I also read a lot of comments (also below other videos) about this being a completely unrealistic situation and that something like this would never happen. I actually experienced situations of getting completely screamed at for not having a pen with me to note down something on my sheets. One time we we were near our yearly christmas concert. One of the bone players, the player behind me got literally kicked out right on the spot permanently from the band for f*cking up one section. Sometimes people don't realize how competitive this industry actually is. One of my professor once said: "If you can't play every sheet music that is getting handed to you at the age of 12 (he was talking about pianists), then you might as well give up completely. Everything that's coming after the age of 12 is only finding your own personal style."
This movie is actually based on my high school jazz band and Fletcher's character is based on a combination of former directors of that band. Damien Chazelle was in the same band some years ahead of me and while I have to say there's obviously some parts exaggerated for drama, I can confirm from personal experience in the band a lot of the foundations and concepts the movie shows are real. The charts they play (Whiplash, Cherokee, etc.), the names of the bands (Nassau, Studio Band), the names of the places and bands in the competitions they compete in, the music folders, etc. are all references to the high school and band.
I was hanging out with a cousin of mine and some of her friends. They all did color guard together and they were sharing stories of their coach who would compliment them and then tell them they were worthless 5 minutes later. He would keep them marching past time until it was perfect, until their feet were bruised from marching. He wouldn't let them use the bathroom. One of them got her lip sliced open just before a competition and instead of sending her to get stitches he stuffed a bunch of skin glue on her mouth to hold it together until after the show. They said that to this day when someone tells them they did a good job they won't believe them. I couldn't believe what I heard. It reminded me of this movie, which none of them had seen. I spoiled some parts of the movie for them to illustrate what kind of character Fletcher is, and they said that's exactly who their coach was. It's sick that there are people out there like that. I'm fine with high expectations and being pushed to the limit, but the abuse is completely unnecessary.
16:30 There are a few theories behind what happened to the folder. Least likely was Tanner hid it so he didn’t have to go on stage. The other theory was that Neiman sabotaged Tanner with the purpose of having his opportunity on stage to forcibly impress Fletcher. Another theory was Fletcher stole the folder to both; teach Tanner the responsibility of looking after your own folder, and to give Neiman a more legitimate reason to step up to the plate. It’s a mystery we wouldn’t get a definitive answer to.
You can look at the context of the film, to me it's incredibly obvious that Fletcher took the folder. Everything he does throughout the whole movie is to manipulate Niemann and bring out the best in him.
I think you are one of the only creators that actually understood the meaning behind Andrew's dad's expression at the end. Really refreshing to see you reactions
I started following you about a month and a half ago, and seen every video you have on a playlist, I have to say hands down you are by far one of my favorite UA-camrs. Every video you make is just amazing and I can't wait to see what else you make. ❤
I’ve always seen the ending as that Fletcher won. That look on Neiman’s dad’s face is a look of shock, fear, and sadness because Fletcher won. Fletcher was willing to put his students through hell to achieve the impossible, but what the movie is asking is “at what cost?”. That’s what Whiplash is about. How far are you willing to go to be the absolute best and when does your love for something turn toxic? Neiman is the next Fletcher. This is how men like Fletcher are made. It’s a viscous cycle and in 20 years Neiman will be doing to someone else what Fletcher did to him because, well, it worked.
I rarely comments but I always like watching Alex's reactions to movies. He's not just watching. I like his analyzations, thoughts and critical thinking about what to observe in the movie. Plus he goofs around. A perfect contrast that is entertaining to watch.
The thing I kinda love about this movie is that it's not a happy story. Obviously it's easy to see what Fletcher is doing is bad, but those final shots where Fletcher and Andrew smile at each other gives off happy ending vibes. But this is not a happy ending, the abuser won and Andrew is lost. I believe I heard that the script describes that shot of Andrew's father at the end as "He looks on in despair" which is just heartbreaking
My brother and I had music directors like this in different cities while in high school. Not to this extreme if hitting but kicking chairs, throwing music stands and yelling. And both directors knew each other.
Damn man! You gave an excellent analysis of this movie at the end! I've been studying anti-social personality disorders a lot lately and you fricken nailed it. Super impressed man!
The best word I can think of to describe this movie is *parable*. You can't take every, single detail of the music school at face value (because that would be disregarding the real world), but it also isn't so far off the rails that the music intelligentsia of the world have to come forward and say its 100% fiction (the way an astrophysicist might about Star Trek). Music school, jazz, academics, striving to accomplish a personal goal - that's all the backdrop of the movie. The characters and the situation around them is where the themes find expression. You can empathize with anyone on the screen or no one. But ultimately, where everyone ends up and why is where the subtext forms. That sounds like a parable to me. Also, I'm glad you got such enjoyment and intellectual stimulation out of this movie! It's very unique and its boldness should continue to be lauded and admired. If half of the movies made were as ambitious as Whiplash, I'd go broke collecting ticket stubs.
It’s basically a movie that uses music to portray an abusive relationship. The ending symbolizes how abuse victims reward their abusers by giving them what they want, hoping it will satisfy them, and end the abuse, which it doesn’t.
And also you see a bit of that with Andrew going to see Fletcher play after he was fired, showing how with abusers even when their victims are free they’re inevitably drawn back to them and when that happens they act nice and understanding to convince them to give them another chance and when they do they drop the act and go right back to abusing them
More physiological terror in this movie. Upswining doesn’t call for drums. So neimann didn’t even need to play and he panicked for essentially no reason
This movie triggers me so much. I was a violinist for 10 years and I was really really good. But the physical and verbal abuse? I refuse to play the violin ever again
Alex, since you liked whiplash you should definitely watch black swan, that movie is similar to whiplash in some way and it might also stress you tf out
@@joseantoniovargas6548nobody is denying this. But you also can’t deny that Fletcher was ultimately right even though he is so terrible. We can believe as well after the events of what we see that Andrew either does what Fletcher does and perpetuates the horrid teaching style of Fletcher or he goes down a dark path and ends up killing himself as well because he is so very lost
I really appreciated the little psych breakdown at the end of this reaction. It's added another layer to this video and is a great way to further internalize what we see before us. Hope it becomes a recurring thing in your videos considering you are putting your own personal time into learning about this. Great viddy Alex!
Man I must say, I loved your analysis at the end, it was on point! This is one of my favorite movies, and I'm about to see it again in a music theatre with a live orchestra playing the score during the projection
Man, this is seriously one of your best reaction videos ever. You try to understand and analyze every point of view. They're both complex characters and that's what many people don't get and just hate it. Thanks for this ❤
I've always heard good things about Whiplash but i never took the time to watch, a couple months ago I did and it did not disappoint. Definitely one of my favorite movies, I love the quote "I’d rather die drunk, broke at 34 and have people at a dinner table talk about me than live to be rich and sober at 90 and nobody remember who I was.”, it's something i go by
I don’t, bc he did the right thing though. Didn’t make her any promises or leading her on when he knew he would’t have the time. They only had a few dates so she was way better off with a boyfriend who gave his attention to her.
Everyone is saying it in the comments, but it is really cool to see you fully understand this movie, I feel like you're really turning into a movie buff. And the psychology stuff at the end? *chef's kiss*
Fletcher gave Andrew the carrot and stick approach where he basically bullied, berated and insulted him until he was almost at breaking point both physically and mentally and then turned around and gave him just enough carrot to make stay or reconsider leaving, goading him into trying harder. I had a similar experience with a teacher who very hard on his students, claiming he only wanted the best for us while I learned later that he only did it to feed his own narcissism and so that „his class“ would be the best.
Surprised you were able to catch so many nuances and themes like Fletcher’s motivations, Andrew’s family’s complacency, etc. on a first viewing. Usually takes a few watches to unpack all of those together.
You know what, I saw this movie earlier this year and I've your analysis at the end of the reaction has been so helpful when analysis is done on a movie it always makes the movie feel like it's a high quality masterpiece because it's not just people going around saying it's a good movie it's explained why like I've tried to do with my friends but you've made my perspective of the movie better so thanks man
Yes, he can actually play! And JK Simmons can actually conduct musicians, too! What a pitch perfect movie. Damien Chazelle is a sick filmmaker and writer.
I’ve been a drummer for 47 years and I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that if you bleed and get blisters, you are doing it wrong and your technique is terrible. This is all Hollywood. Still a great movie though.
Good lord, the Triad metaphor turns what would've been an already fun watch along into a beautiful, unique analysis. You make me want to do the same, so I can enjoy watching films myself. BRILLIANT WORK, you have a new subscriber!!
Society likes to "have it's cake and eat it too" when it comes to the Genius/ Greats of Musicians, Artists, Writers, Athletes... We want the talent and masterpieces they produce, but we don't want them to have dirty pasts, trauma, addictions or mental health issues. How many "Greats" have we pitied because they slowly killed themselves with alcohol, and drugs? Can we play devil's advocate and ask ourselves if maybe the depression, trauma, and mental divergence of these people play into what makes them so special? I will never glorify the unhealthy habits or say that you must be tortured in order to be Great, but we must admit that we as a species would never understand the limits to what humans can do if there were not conflicted, divergent individuals pushing out of the healthy norm.
Fletcher showing Neiman what to expect before he put him on drums, destroying the white shirt guy by convincing him that he's in the wrong before doing the same thing to Neiman, will always be one of my favorite details. I think this is one of the ways that Fletcher justify his actions, that atleast he gave him a warning.
This movie was EXACTLY what I thought it would be. There was no way I was watching it alone! Thank you for your reaction Alex. Your thoughts are on point! That man was awful to the human condition. But we all enjoy and admire seeing (and being) greatness and there is no denying that pressure creates diamonds, but at what cost? Figuring it out could give you whiplash! It's corny but true! 🌽😂
"They are going to be good friends." 🤣
lol 😂 😂
Ironically, if the movie had continued, I get the feeling that they potentially would have been as they then completely understood each other. But yes, the initial read by Alex was funny as hell.
Yeah, friends, lol
BIG LOL 😂😂😂
At that part I swear I said out loud "Oh Alex you're in for a shock"
During the “not quite my tempo” scene Andrew was perfectly on time, but fletcher was saying he wasn’t because he was immediately beginning to manipulate him
holy shit really? i have little to no knowledge on music, was it revealed or can you tell because you have music experience
@@sir.sleepsalot2711if you put the audio of neiman behind a metronome/click track, he’s perfectly on time with the clicks, but fletcher doesn’t actually care he wants to manipulate him. Think about when he said that one kid was off key and then later said he wasn’t actually off key but him not knowing that was just as bad
He made him doubt himself by asking if he was on time or not. He was on time, it's almost like being out of tune for that other guy
His tempo was on time (when he said to count at 215), but when he was playing with the rest of the band he was indeed rushing
@@jkitchen2003 correct
This is hands down one of my favorite J.K Simmons performances. I’ve seen genocidal villains in movies that were not nearly as sadistic as Terrence Fletcher
Did you watch Simmons in Oz? He is simply fantastic as a villain.
@@Testamentis whether its an abusive music teacher or the leader of the aryan brotherhood in a prison series, dude can just act
@@Luxray2000jk Simmons is such an iconic actor. Legendary status
My Favorite J.K. Simmons performance is Cave Johnson In Portal 2 lol
Or scary. JK Simmons is downright terrifying in this movie, like that’s insane. And I’m not easily scared.
I never noticed until now that during Andrew's first hazing, the core drummer looks confused as all hell because he's counting along and keeps giving Fletcher the side eye because even he knows Andrew is playing at the right tempo.
Actually, Andrew playing in ritght tempo only in first and the last attempt, in ALL attempts between he plays not in the tempo, starting on hi-hat instead snare drum. Just listening.
@@ZEMELYA93 Because Fletcher convinced him he was wrong, so he tried to change it, instead of being sure of himself like (maybe) Fletcher wanted 😵💫
And yet the drummer also knows he can’t speak up and say anything because he’ll have something thrown at his head
Fletcher is a total psycho who rules through fear
So much character work hidden right before your eyes in this movie, the popcorn scene with his dad avoiding conflict, the way Andrew falls down the stairs running to rehearsals foreshadowing the bigger accident later on in the movie, Fletcher very carefully manipulating Andrew by giving him just enough just to then take it all away. This movie is a whole experience
That's why it won five Oscars. And J.K. Simmons really deserved his.
None of that was hidden...
@@vaultboy1419 Four! Should have won five with best picture but what can you do.
and the way fletcher destroys his confidence by constantly giving andrew two choices or implies he wants him to do something then which ever choice he chooses or whether he does it or not, hes wrong either way. plus the fact fletcher purposefully mispronounces his name to undermine him right from the start and how andrew mentions the music in the pizza store before the pizza, foreshadowing him prioritizing his music career over her (or anything else). genuinely such a good movie
@@spencerwattamaniuk950it would have but unfortunately a better film beat it, birdman (or the unexpected virtue of ignorance) beautiful beautiful movie that also basically said fuck you to all the movie critics and was about the expression of art as a while
"You are hard to please dude". Alex figured out the movie in the first minute.
😂😂😂
He isn't hard to please, he just doesn't show that he's pleased
@@JB-jt6oq I mean he did at the end of the movie tho lol
@@JB-jt6oq um, no. hes hard to please. he is only pleased once he makes his own charlie parker.
"Four words you will never hear from the NFL" that demolished him
One of my favorite movie lines🤣
@@goldenageofdinosaurs7192 as someone who played D1 soccer, that shit cracks me up every time!
I wish I was that quick-witted
english is not my first language and im not really into NF. i beg for an explanation
He said "come play with us". Four words that the national football league would never use. He was annoyed because his family was more proud of mediocre athleticism than his professional level of musical education.@@elmurodolimov772
"His dad just lost his son to Fletcher" -fucking exactly. I really love how you broke the bigger & underlining themes down.
Right? This was one of the best short analysis of this movie I've ever seen!
Absolutely, excellent reaction
That Final Look was Not Being proud, That was the face of a Defeated man who just lost his son
His Dad was literally on the outside looking in with that expression at the end of the movie.
I think it was more his dad realizing the greatness of his talent and finally understood
Alex, just wanted to say this. The amount of detail that you got from this movie is just insane. You almost nailed all the themes and sub textual messaging that the film tried to convey. Big fan and much love❤
Yeah this film and the Dune analysis showed me that Alex is getting much better at critically analysing films. After seeing so much, it's nice to see
Wow, thanks! Super glad you enjoyed the video!!
ALMOST nailed???
@@M1cha3lP Lol, ok *absolutely nailed😅
@@alexhefnerstvmovievaultAI response hahahahah 😂
This movie feels designed to make you anxious and uncomfortable. Simmons deserved that Oscar.
Miles deserved one too imo
"The silence in this movie screams" - such a perfect summary
You understood the movie very early on. Teller's character was willing to do ANYTHING to be great, including going back to his abuser to earn his respect. The teacher wanted to find the next GREAT jazz player. Nothing more. The look the father gave through the door at the end was the realization that his son was lost to him.
I think it was the knowledge that Fletcher had won, but also just him comprehending the monster talent his son actually possessed. Because his father is so happy with the middle, he figured his son was ok with that level of effort towards life as well & seeing that his son had that level of drive & talent made him realize that he was essentially ‘seeing’ his son for the first time.
That's all interpretation, man
highly disagree; that scene to me was the father truly understanding his son for the first time.
@@deafheaven99I agree, I think his whole life his dad had his back, but this is the first time he actually saw him, the true and talented person his son is.
@@astaroth_68same his dad definitely understood in the end
39:09 - this is the best moment in the movie. His father finally saw his son for who he actually is and it terrified him, because Andrew is not this little meek boy who can't make eye contact with people and sits at a table quietly eating nasty overcooked fish, but a monster who just needed the proper guidance that his incompetent, uninspiring and complacent self could never give Andrew. Amazing writing.
I see him as an abuse victim turning back to his abuser and his father not being to happy about it
Alex: "I feel like they're gonna be best friends"
Me: "Oh..."
I started to laugh out loud when I heard that. Oh naive Alex
@@lesteraanholt2857Alex only sees the best in people, I love it
Finally a reactor that finally understood the villian won in this movie! His dads shocked face at the end realizing he lost his son and the bad guy of the story won
You literally didn’t watch the video 😂 they both won you fool. Andrew got what he wanted and strived for the entire movie. He understood the sacrifices required to be great, and he achieved it. His dad’s look was not just of horror, but also realisation that his son is not ordinary like him, and that his son is actually extraordinarily talented.
@@FlareDope Never have children.
@@Dogan_TM aint no way you said that with that profile picture lmfao. The irony is palpable
This is the one film where I've seen it said "the audience mistakes the ending as a success when it was actually the bad ending. Tellers character gave up his entire life to give Fletcher the happy ending"
I think calling it a bad ending is also reductive, it rubs all the nuance out.
This is a move about someone becoming a great drummer and by the end he has. If we look at La La Land, written around the same time also by Damien Chazelle, it also has an ending like this and calling the La La Land ending a bad ending is just wrong. Both characters achieve their dreams to say its a bad ending is just wrong.
That’s what I thought too until Alex analysis. From Andrew’s point of view, it’s also a « happy » ending. He strives for perfection and that’s what he got.
As opposed to "staying in your dad's arms and going home" is the good ending?
@@AMMS10 Have you heard about middle grounds? Between "staying in your dad's arm and going home" and going back to your abuser, you know.
It's both a good and bad ending, seeing it as totally bad removes the point of the movie.
“I have no musical talent whatsoever, about as much musical talent as a fish” Aha that means you’re good at scales! Thankyou, thankyou very much
😂😂😂😂😂
He also shouldn't have any issues staying in tune, since you can tuna fish
Maybe he can play bass
The ending is actually pretty tragic. The whole movie is about how much you need to sacrifice to be the best of the best. You hate Fletcher and his abusive teaching throughout the movie, calling him names and all. The fact is that Andrew would have never been on the level he is if it wasn't for Fletcher. Therefore the final look they exchange is basically "I was right, you fuck, I made you the best of the best and all the things I have done, including bullying a student to death, was worth it". A tragic end with a smile on everyone's face.
IMO it’s more about how sacrificing everything can make you the best at a detriment of your own health but that’s not necessarily the only nor the correct way. Fletcher ruins his students in hopes that one of the greats won’t back down, Andrew had that greatness within him all fletcher did was almost ruin his career as a musician.
Except on Andrew’s dad, who lost his son forever.
It's the son's responsibility to save his father from the belly of the beast.
Pinocchio, Star Wars, Back to the Future.
I don't think he lost his son. "That IS my son"
Was he fake crying about Sean when he told them about the "accident"
@@desertsn0wball I don't believe so, but people who reduce Fletcher to any mental condition would
This movie triggered some painful memories.
The strictest teachers are always those that can act the most friendly.
I clearly remember how after my friend was questioned and had to leave the classroom after it, my teacher asked:
"Why is she crying?
It's not like I bite."
I've gone through similar things in the past, and it's seriously dulled my interest in academia. I grew up with people saying I'd write a killer thesis, that any professor would be thrilled to have me as a student, but my thesis director's approach to research methodology was absolutely fucking bonkers. A Master's isn't that long; it's three years with maybe six months out of the whole lot dedicated to lectures, but my syllabus was crammed with so much required reading I had barely any time left for research. I remember snapping after a year, showing my syllabus to what would've been my second choice for a thesis director, and the guy basically went "Oh. You went with the other guy, right?"
I'd soon learn that my director was well known for pushing his students to their limits, if their thesis subject happened to fall in his favourite fields. He expected a Doctorate-level monography crammed in the same space as six Undergrad essays, which isn't nearly enough. He wasn't abusive, but he absolutely wasn't realistic. After I started losing track of my rewrites and edits and the times he told me to start over, I basically made the choice Neiman didn't make: I edited my last copy for typos, cleaned things out, and handed in a copy my director called "complete shit" to the review board.
There were three other professors on the board, and all of them felt like my director had pressured them. One of them started out nice, but kept catching withering glances from my lecturer - so her tone changed during the review. The other two caught the message - called it lacklustre.
I passed, barely, but I figured self-respect and mental health matter more than trying to reach some other guy's impossible goals of research-related thoroughness and decent penmanship. Ironically, I was writing a thesis on H.P. Lovecraft's own unrealistic expectations towards his works, his society - and his worldview in general. Another guy who nearly drove himself nuts trying to insurmountably seek out perfection.
@@McSquiddington the worst thing is that those kinds of teachers are always left to do whatever they want without consequences, because of their reputations as brilliant people. I was able to barely survive, but many others weren't so lucky and had given up.
This movie really is a phenomenal tale of how the strive for perfection can actually destroy your life, Andrew was willing to do anything to be the best drummer but at the cost of mentally draining himself of everything he had, he cut himself off from his girlfriend, distanced himself from his dad etc. He became a great drummer but at what cost? And I think the parallels are very strong because his dad and his girlfriend are just chill, everyday people who don’t think too hard about things and just go with the flow, they wanna teach him to be like that and become a normal person who just enjoys life again but they can’t because he’s too obsessive, in other words he’s just like Fletcher, Fletcher is kind of a showcase of what Andrew will be like if he stays on this path, and so it’s hard to tell if the movie ends on a positive note because you don’t know if you should be happy that he got Fletcher’s approval or sad because you’re essentially seeing another person be poisoned by obsessiveness
The drummer they reference as being the greatest of all time, died from a drug overdose while still rather young (late 20s or early 30s IIRC). The ending is hinting at the same ending for Andrew some years in the near future. Even the director of the film has publicly said that is what happens to that character after the film ends.
@@blacksheep_edge1412which Andrew was aware of and prepared for. He said it in the dinner table scene. He’s destined for greatness and he knows the consequences of that.
My father is a jazz musician and he routinely cut himself off from his family to the point of abuse. And for what? He never became the great jazz musician he always wanted to be. Instead he alienated himself from his entire family and my mother divorced his ass when I was young.
@@FlareDopethat doesn’t change the fact that he created a negative life around what could have easily been his passion and career without this.
@@blacksheep_edge1412Charlie Parker played saxophone, not drums. The drummer Andrew is listening to on the boombox in rehearsal, Buddy Rich, had a 50 year career,lived to nearly 70, and is considered the greatest jazz drummer of all time.
3:03 I’m glad you picked up on the popcorn scene. THIS is a masterclass in character development and screenwriting. SHOW don’t tell. The audience isn’t as stupid as studios like to think we are. His dad having no ambition, avoiding conflict, and never standing up for himself is all told directly via his actions instead of some character doing exposition work and telling us this.
J.K. Simmons is one hell of a performance in this movie. His acting was really scary and intense. He even won for Best Supporting Actor in Oscars, BAFTA Award, and Golden Globe. He's the right casting choice to play as an abusive teacher in this movie. This movie kick started my love of jazz music since I first watched it and it has always been one of my favourites of all time.
Turning Aaron into an editor/on-screen producer is a good idea. You two are like if a couple of gooch-loving brothers got separated at birth and then reunited at a drunkard's BBQ party.
this comment is elite
@@isaachorstmann9749 Your gooch is elite. Yes, I mean every word. Its a prize-winning gooch, I wanna put a frame on it and charge 69 bucks for admission. And 420 bucks if they want to slap it.
The fact that Alex’s fans have such a distinct sense of humor and vocabulary is genuinely so amazing to me😂💯
I’m the drunkard whose barbecue they met at. plot twist it was a gooch-off physique competition
Never thought I'd ever read the words "gooch-loving brothers".
I remember when this movie came out, my percussion director looked at us and said, "If I ever end up acting like the teacher in Whiplash, throw your sticks at me and walk out." He was obviously joking, but looking back with nearly 10 years of separation from it, I can see why no one would want to be like him. Mr.Wheeler you rocked, and no, you were never a Fletcher.
He wasn't a Fletcher and you're not a Neiman. Nobody knows you or your teacher even exists. Sometimes the ends do justify the means.
@@DrewDragoonBit harsh and reductive, don’t you think?
Plenty of people who are the best at what they do didn’t require any abuse to get there
@@DrewDragoonwhat have you done? Nobody knows who you are, and likely don’t have any skill set. Dork
None of you became world class musicians though, right ?
@@brichards9293I would rather there never be any “greats” in the world who were abused by Fletcher-like teachers if that meant them continuing to live.
Ooooh yeah. This is gonna be fun😈
Oh yeah. lol
Heyyyy, @funnylilgalreacts -- one of my favorite reactors popping up on another of my faves. I love it. I really enjoyed your reaction to this movie (including your nearly irrational love of J.K. Simmons, who deserves all the praise)
Oh, hi, Angela!
Lifelong percussionist, I still have scars on my hands from the endless hours I had to spend practicing for some parts of like an All-State or honor band because the music can get pretty insane to follow at certain levels of skill
Same! We always went with a band aid and then electrical tape over that. Also, you could use super glue to seal cracked fingertips.
After over 10 years, I'm still not convinced the callous on my left ring finger from traditional grip, will ever go away 😂
I’ll never forget having to keep bandaids on my left ring finger when I would play with traditional grip. Had callouses for years. I haven’t played in over a decade now.. I miss it.
I have holds in my palms for playing with 4 mallets so much
So why not just wear work gloves? You obviously can’t wear them during competition but why can’t you any other time?
The realest MVP in this film is the Bassist who actually follows Neimans cue for Caravan
Common bass player w
Bass player are always the best people
I think this is the best breakdown of Whiplash I've seen!!!
I watched professional drummers and psychiatrists break this down and I think the insights you provided edged out over them! The mediocre dad was something I never realized till you pointed out so that added a new level of depth for me, thanks!
I watched a breaksown of a professional drummer say that Miles Teller was on the right tempo when Fletcher was yelling if he was rushing or dragging. Fletcher did all that crap just to get in the kid's head.
You really understood this movie. Usually I find movie reactions pointless but really enjoyed your analysis on this one. 🕺🕺
I appreciate that! There was so much to talk about with this one.
You ever see a drummer go super saiyan?
The thing about Andrew's dad is that yeah, he might live a mediocre life, but he's happy. And in seeing his son, truly, for the first time at the end, seeing the perfection he is not only chasing, but achieving, he knows his son might attain the perfection he's trying for, but he'll never be happy.
You don't credit yourself enough about this, but you are (almost always) VERY good at realizing what is going on, even subtle things! That's why you are my favorite reactor!
The thing about Alex is that he is very clued in on certain aspects of the movies he watches, but hilariously clueless on others. It is amazing how completely he misses the point of so many scenes in the shows and movies he reacts to. But he was laser-focused on this one, more so than almost any I've seen from him.
@@debestcanadianSeriously, my mouth was wide open watching him perfectly analyze this movie and all the little subtleties that make it so amazing 😂
@@debestcanadian Nailed it lol. Sometimes he *completely* misses the mark because he's too busy talking and misses what's actually happening, which is hilarious
As a classical musician who went to a music conservatory and has had several teachers just like Fletcher, lemme tell you that this movie is just so spot-on. The not-quite praise mixed with degradation, the intense craving for their approval, even though you lowkey hate their guts, the constant breakdowns because you’re starting to doubt your own talent, etc. I know they probably didn’t mean for it to be that way, but Fletcher is just extremely triggering and for that reason, I’ve only ever watched it once. Brilliant movie and performances from everyone in it, though.
I have a similar background to you, and excepting the physical abuse it is all too accurate. And in the old days there was the abuse including the sexual abuse of students by power mad teachers.
As a palate cleanser for watching J.K. Simmons as this character I recommend Juno (2007), where he and Allison Janney are delightful.
Literally the only movie that I've personally ever seen where j.k Simmons played a nice character 😭
I agree fantastic flick... Allison Janey was fantastic with Margo Robbie in iTonya as well
@@fancyclan5679Lol, I, Tonya is the Whiplash of Allison Janney’s career. She also won an Oscar for her performance like JK Simmons.
@@arandomuser8131 He's basically nice in his bit part in Dark Skies, if a bit gloomy.
I'd say Birdman, it's great to see the 2014 award competitors because god what a fucking year for film
Triumphant ending but it’s far from a happy one. Wrote an article about it for CBR a few months ago. Wildly good movie. For music/drumming, also give a go to La La Land (same director, you’ll recognize some editing techniques) and Birdman (or The Unexpected Virtue of Ignorance). If you’re getting into psychology, Birdman would be right up your alley. Great reaction as always!
Birdman is a great pick. I would also suggest "Tar" for an excellent movie in the world of music
For anyone on the fence, joining the patreon is 100% worth it, the amount of content and effort Alex puts into it is fantastic. 10/10 Its so good.
No patreon is worth it lmfao have fun wasting your money bro
@@Joeysaladslover let people do what they wanna do lol, if they think its worth it, its worth it
how much did he pay you to say this? /j
I've been on his Patreon for a year now and all i can say is..... Have fun watching Clone Wars season 3 in a few weeks while we are currently in the middle of season 5.
Didn't think bc we can't actually see his reaction since the movie isn't on his screen
40:57 I see what your saying about his dad, but the way I saw it was the slight tension release made him realize the hard-work his son has put into this drumming career. Before at the dinner, they were bragging about football and thinking music was just a time passing hobby and the only way to be successful (at least in that family) was to be a big football star and they never understood the time, effort and determination that Andrew put into his music career.
The pressure to succeed in such a technical field encourages near-robotic levels of ability, and can drain the soul out of performing without the proper balance and people to help tether your perspective. In pursuit of perfection, it is easy to lose sight of how far you progress along the way, and ultimately, it's a dragon that you''l end up chasing forever. Passion can easily slip into obsession, and even if there isn't a Fletcher in your life influencing the way you approach your art, that Fletcher can just as easily exist within your own mind. Always remember where you came from in your pursuit for success and remember that art is about love and connection. Savor the process and the joy of creation, rather than what you think the rewards of your efforts will be. Never sacrifice integrity and well-being for results.
In many ways Fletcher is the perfectionists' own mind.
Yeah, i remember watching a video called "the misleading ending of whiplash" and there were quotes from the director of the film, "there's nothing redeemable about Fletcher" and if i remember correctly said "the ending is tragic because fletcher in the end gets what he wants" he went on to say that "Neiman would likely go on to be a great drummer but would meet an early end like Fletcher's other student" the director said this was inspired by the fact he had to deal with an abusive teacher as a jazz drummer also. The comments on the vid made good points too. The silence at the end tells you all you need to know, there was no applause, no outward validation. The look on the dad's face was that of horror, realizing he lost his son to Fletcher. And another comment i saw was 1 pointing out that these types of abusive relationships, those moments of happiness and relief are needed because those moments keep the person from running away from those toxic relationships. Also, at the end of the vid, the person made an excellent comparison to this and the crunch time of videogame developers. Cyberpunk 2077 had insane amounts of crunch and in the end it came out a broken mess and got taken off the playstation store for who knows how many months, the newer ratchet and clank game came out a masterpiece and there was 0 crunch time, whereas the witcher 3 came out great too but also had insane amounts of crunch so it being good made the crunch less noticeable which correlates to a situation like Neiman's, you go through an abusive teacher and you either come out of it incredible or you come out a broken mess that's not even good at what you do.
It’s not tragic. It’s tragic to you because you’re ordinary. This is a movie about greatness and the sacrifice required to be great. Andrew got what he wanted and what he strived for the whole film. He knows the consequences and the likely outcome of his life, he literally said it in the dinner table scene. “I’d rather die drunk, broke at 34 and have people at a dinner table talk about me, than live to be rich and sober at 90 and nobody remembered who I was.”
@@FlareDope Something people don't understand is that when they finally achieve their goals all their problems don't just disappear and all of their wants don't disappear either and some feelings remain despite their achievements. Sacrifices for your goals are great as long as they're reasonable but self destructive behavior will limit you to just your goals which effectively made Neiman a human drum set. He said that at the dinner table because he's young and hasn't realized that there is more to life than drumming
@@tunnelingkiller4677 imagine telling Messi as a kid “there’s more to life than football” - thats how ridiculous you sound.
@@FlareDope bait used to be believable
@@captainalieth my comment is not “bait” is common sense and logic, backed up with evidence from the movie. If i tell you the sky is blue are you gonna say “bAiT uSeD tO bE bElIeVaBlE”
The director himself has classified it as a "tragedy", the final look on his dad's face showing fear that Andrew has chosen the path of insatiable ambition despite the costs.
I’m so glad you brought up the Dark Triad and explained it too. The one exception I would like to interject would be, Andrew made the choices to return. Andrew already displayed his own version of Narcissistic and Machiavellian tendencies too. His choice of schools. How he treated family over dinner. How he treated his girlfriend. He never wanted to fit in. He wanted, what he wanted at any cost. Even his self respect. In my humble opinion, it was the perfect storm of personalities coming together in this movie. I 100% agree with your diagnosis of Fletcher, but Andrew doesn’t get off Scott free here. He played his part because he wanted to play his part. Just my two cents.
I feel like he had the potential for that personality at the start, but it's Fletcher that really turned him into it. As the saying goes, hurt people hurt people. It's a cycle of abuse and narcissism that self perpetuates.
He treated his family over dinner that way because they dismissed his talent and his achievements. Why remove context? Andrew wanted to achieve greatness, and that requires certain personality traits and sacrifices. Say what you want about him, but he achieved greatness. Meanwhile you are average. You’re an ordinary joe blogs.
@@FlareDope wow. I had no idea that I would incur such vitriol for merely expressing a point of view on the topic. I don’t know why my verbiage has brought out such ire from you on this thread. If you feel offended by my statement that is unfortunate. I was merely trying to participate in the discussion and offer an alternative perspective instead of dismissing someone else’s opinion or point of view. I didn’t know that merely participating in an open discussion would be met with such a dismissive attitude. For your sake, I will refrain from commenting on threads that you participate on. But, since I don’t know who we both follow on UA-cam, I guess I will just have to keep being myself. I will continue to make comments that are hopefully thought provoking and further open discussion. And you, I assume, will remain being … you. Either way, I wish you the best my friend. Peace be with you.
@@EricAntonsen-uz2tq Sorry buddy, the last part of my comment wasn’t meant seriously, I was joking. I appreciate and respect your perspective on the film. Apologies if you were offended and I wish you all the best.
@@FlareDope Thank You for clarifying your statement. Peace brother!
That analysis was FANTASTIC! I learned so much in such a short period of time. Thank you so much for that!
As for Fletcher, I have no problem with a teacher pushing my child. But if you EVER put hands on her …
Let’s just say we’re gonna have problems and I’m gonna need bail money.
That "teacher" should lose their job IMMEDIATELY. PERIOD. Fletcher looked to me like he was begging to lose his job.
I love this film. Fletcher reminds me of my father I grew up with (i.e. not a good dude), but the way Simmons and Teller act in this is so powerful and it totally doesn't have me lingering on my past experiences with an admittedly similar man. It may sound counterintuitive, but I get *energy* from this film, rather than feeling pulled down into the emotional mud by it. The way Chazelle explores passion in relation to abuse is so unique. Simmons so deserved the Best Supporting Actor for it.
One of my favorite movies of all time!
Fletcher is a sociopath. Anyone who thinks the end (1 in a million 'bird') justifies the means (pushing 999,999 people towards suicide) is insane just like Fletcher.
You'll never achieve anything of greatness.
@@DrewDragoon and you will?
@@DrewDragoon Never have children.
@@DrewDragoon Lol, Can't really call it "greatness" when you're 9 feet below the ground
@@DrewDragoonwas that supposed to be a magic spell you waved you're fingers for?
39:07 good job for pointing this out. the director said that this is the moment his father realizes that he has lost his son, and that fletcher won
Think this is the best analysis I’ve watched from your channel!
Keep going you’re doing an amazing job!!!!!!
Wow, thanks!
0:25 he’s the editor
HEE ISSSSS
WHAT THE FREAK
The thing you mentioned about half dark half light is actually all throughout the movie with green and yellow lighting. When I noticed this you really realize how amazing this was produced
I've been so excited for you to review this movie for so long because (no pun intended) it's such a banger. It is such a masterpiece in so many different ways, evokes so many complex emotions and really leaves you thinking about the movie after it is done. I loved your psychological assessment of Fletcher at the end as well, and am so happy that you are getting into Psychology on your own time! It was my major in university and brain is one of the most fascinating organs there is, to me.
I watched almost all of you videos and it’s very noticeable that you have developed a great sense of movie analysis over time. Love your channel, cheers
Wow, thank you!
@@alexhefnerstvmovievault When will you react to Top Gun: Maverick? Would really love to see you reacting to it!!!
40:35 - I have been doing that for years myself. I am fascinated with psychology and philosophy, and I have been thinking about and analyzing Whiplash for hours and hours. If you ever want to have a conversation about it, hit me up I would be happy to dive deep into the meaning of the story.
Never watched Whiplash myself, just seen the viral clips, so reacting to it with you was fun. This was also one of the more fun reactions I've watched from you, enjoyed it a lot keep it up :)
I actually played semiprofessionally in a Jazz Band for quite a few years myself (selectional orchestra in our state), the same as Andrew kind of at the beginning of musical college.
What I noticed is that Fletcher is actually kind of similar to Andrews Dad as well. Often times in music (jazz) the players who didn't make it big themself became conductors in their future or teachers/conductors, so you could kind of say Fletcher didn't achieve his own dreams of becoming a big one himself the same as Andrew's dad gave up on writing.
I also read a lot of comments (also below other videos) about this being a completely unrealistic situation and that something like this would never happen. I actually experienced situations of getting completely screamed at for not having a pen with me to note down something on my sheets. One time we we were near our yearly christmas concert. One of the bone players, the player behind me got literally kicked out right on the spot permanently from the band for f*cking up one section.
Sometimes people don't realize how competitive this industry actually is. One of my professor once said: "If you can't play every sheet music that is getting handed to you at the age of 12 (he was talking about pianists), then you might as well give up completely. Everything that's coming after the age of 12 is only finding your own personal style."
i love how you dont see fletchers smile at the end, even though u know he smiled, they dont show you, GOOSE BUMPS
This movie is actually based on my high school jazz band and Fletcher's character is based on a combination of former directors of that band. Damien Chazelle was in the same band some years ahead of me and while I have to say there's obviously some parts exaggerated for drama, I can confirm from personal experience in the band a lot of the foundations and concepts the movie shows are real. The charts they play (Whiplash, Cherokee, etc.), the names of the bands (Nassau, Studio Band), the names of the places and bands in the competitions they compete in, the music folders, etc. are all references to the high school and band.
I was hanging out with a cousin of mine and some of her friends. They all did color guard together and they were sharing stories of their coach who would compliment them and then tell them they were worthless 5 minutes later. He would keep them marching past time until it was perfect, until their feet were bruised from marching. He wouldn't let them use the bathroom.
One of them got her lip sliced open just before a competition and instead of sending her to get stitches he stuffed a bunch of skin glue on her mouth to hold it together until after the show.
They said that to this day when someone tells them they did a good job they won't believe them. I couldn't believe what I heard. It reminded me of this movie, which none of them had seen.
I spoiled some parts of the movie for them to illustrate what kind of character Fletcher is, and they said that's exactly who their coach was. It's sick that there are people out there like that. I'm fine with high expectations and being pushed to the limit, but the abuse is completely unnecessary.
16:30 There are a few theories behind what happened to the folder. Least likely was Tanner hid it so he didn’t have to go on stage. The other theory was that Neiman sabotaged Tanner with the purpose of having his opportunity on stage to forcibly impress Fletcher. Another theory was Fletcher stole the folder to both; teach Tanner the responsibility of looking after your own folder, and to give Neiman a more legitimate reason to step up to the plate. It’s a mystery we wouldn’t get a definitive answer to.
You can look at the context of the film, to me it's incredibly obvious that Fletcher took the folder. Everything he does throughout the whole movie is to manipulate Niemann and bring out the best in him.
Pretty in depth analysis for an ork 🤨
@@omnissiahGaspar part of dem Blood Axes clan innit
"That is not a healthy teacher/student relationship"
...
......
Brother, you ain't seen nothing yet
Wrestling coach in high school was just like this, anytime someone asks about what it was like I ask them have you seen the movie whiplash 😂
"Machiavelliant", a new word I had never heard. I love it! You have very intelligent vocabulary. I appreciate you b Alex 🙏
Look up 'Machiavelli' (if you haven't already). You'll find out who he was & what he was all about.
I think you are one of the only creators that actually understood the meaning behind Andrew's dad's expression at the end. Really refreshing to see you reactions
I started following you about a month and a half ago, and seen every video you have on a playlist, I have to say hands down you are by far one of my favorite UA-camrs. Every video you make is just amazing and I can't wait to see what else you make. ❤
I’ve always seen the ending as that Fletcher won. That look on Neiman’s dad’s face is a look of shock, fear, and sadness because Fletcher won. Fletcher was willing to put his students through hell to achieve the impossible, but what the movie is asking is “at what cost?”. That’s what Whiplash is about. How far are you willing to go to be the absolute best and when does your love for something turn toxic? Neiman is the next Fletcher. This is how men like Fletcher are made. It’s a viscous cycle and in 20 years Neiman will be doing to someone else what Fletcher did to him because, well, it worked.
I rarely comments but I always like watching Alex's reactions to movies. He's not just watching. I like his analyzations, thoughts and critical thinking about what to observe in the movie. Plus he goofs around. A perfect contrast that is entertaining to watch.
The thing I kinda love about this movie is that it's not a happy story. Obviously it's easy to see what Fletcher is doing is bad, but those final shots where Fletcher and Andrew smile at each other gives off happy ending vibes. But this is not a happy ending, the abuser won and Andrew is lost. I believe I heard that the script describes that shot of Andrew's father at the end as "He looks on in despair" which is just heartbreaking
My brother and I had music directors like this in different cities while in high school. Not to this extreme if hitting but kicking chairs, throwing music stands and yelling. And both directors knew each other.
God, seeing how hopeful you are about Fletcher being a good teacher is so funny. It’s like watching a jenga tower moments before it falls.
Damn man! You gave an excellent analysis of this movie at the end! I've been studying anti-social personality disorders a lot lately and you fricken nailed it. Super impressed man!
The best word I can think of to describe this movie is *parable*. You can't take every, single detail of the music school at face value (because that would be disregarding the real world), but it also isn't so far off the rails that the music intelligentsia of the world have to come forward and say its 100% fiction (the way an astrophysicist might about Star Trek). Music school, jazz, academics, striving to accomplish a personal goal - that's all the backdrop of the movie. The characters and the situation around them is where the themes find expression. You can empathize with anyone on the screen or no one. But ultimately, where everyone ends up and why is where the subtext forms.
That sounds like a parable to me.
Also, I'm glad you got such enjoyment and intellectual stimulation out of this movie! It's very unique and its boldness should continue to be lauded and admired. If half of the movies made were as ambitious as Whiplash, I'd go broke collecting ticket stubs.
It’s basically a movie that uses music to portray an abusive relationship. The ending symbolizes how abuse victims reward their abusers by giving them what they want, hoping it will satisfy them, and end the abuse, which it doesn’t.
That's a bit reductive and not totally accurate, but I see where you're coming from.
@@CertifiedSunset I didn’t mean to be reductive, and I know I was inaccurate. I’m sorry if I was offensive to you at all.
@@MrMindchild All's good
I get that perspective but to me it’s about greatness and the sacrifice required to achieve it. I think it’s a mix of both.
And also you see a bit of that with Andrew going to see Fletcher play after he was fired, showing how with abusers even when their victims are free they’re inevitably drawn back to them and when that happens they act nice and understanding to convince them to give them another chance and when they do they drop the act and go right back to abusing them
More physiological terror in this movie. Upswining doesn’t call for drums. So neimann didn’t even need to play and he panicked for essentially no reason
This movie triggers me so much. I was a violinist for 10 years and I was really really good. But the physical and verbal abuse? I refuse to play the violin ever again
“I have NO musical talents whatsoever” fuckin IMMEDIATELY critics how that one guy is strumming the bass😂😂
Alex, since you liked whiplash you should definitely watch black swan, that movie is similar to whiplash in some way and it might also stress you tf out
I LOVE how you understand this movie so quickly and accurately, fantastic reaction as always!!
WE GOT A HEART LETS GOOO!!! (Ima drummer also so this movie has a special place in my heart)
Fletcher is an abuser. The ends do not justify the means
It's both. Like Alex said.
@@KhilitSavla25 Leading one of your students to self deleting is where the line gets crossed and you should lose everything in my opinion
World isn't black and white, and will never be. So opinions should never be oversimplified
@@joseantoniovargas6548nobody is denying this. But you also can’t deny that Fletcher was ultimately right even though he is so terrible. We can believe as well after the events of what we see that Andrew either does what Fletcher does and perpetuates the horrid teaching style of Fletcher or he goes down a dark path and ends up killing himself as well because he is so very lost
@@IarwainBen-adar Nnnnope. Not how that works. Whatever 'right' you think he has is ultimately WRONG if it leads to people's suicide.
This movie was amazing the first time I watched it but now it makes me cry ambiguous tears on every rewatch.
I really appreciated the little psych breakdown at the end of this reaction. It's added another layer to this video and is a great way to further internalize what we see before us. Hope it becomes a recurring thing in your videos considering you are putting your own personal time into learning about this. Great viddy Alex!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Man I must say, I loved your analysis at the end, it was on point! This is one of my favorite movies, and I'm about to see it again in a music theatre with a live orchestra playing the score during the projection
Bro your review/breakdown of the movie at the end *chefs kiss*
The calculator line is one of my favorite lines from any film.
Same! I love it haha
Man, this is seriously one of your best reaction videos ever.
You try to understand and analyze every point of view. They're both complex characters and that's what many people don't get and just hate it.
Thanks for this ❤
I've always heard good things about Whiplash but i never took the time to watch, a couple months ago I did and it did not disappoint. Definitely one of my favorite movies, I love the quote "I’d rather die drunk, broke at 34 and have people at a dinner table talk about me than live to be rich and sober at 90 and nobody remember who I was.”, it's something i go by
I mean, that wasn’t really supposed to be inspirational…It’s something that Fletcher sees in people and exploits.
@@beefjezos2713you're not the one who decides what's inspirational
"It didn't not disappoint" 🤔
@@AutumnSun140 autocorrect got me again
That's really sad that somebody would be willing to give up half their lifespan just to impress other people.
You just earned yourself a subscriber man.
This guy is a fucking legend!!! You make movies look better than when we are watching it our self. This is awesome!
That's not passion nor dedication, that's just sick obsession :'( really felt bad for melissa's character
I don’t, bc he did the right thing though. Didn’t make her any promises or leading her on when he knew he would’t have the time.
They only had a few dates so she was way better off with a boyfriend who gave his attention to her.
Everyone is saying it in the comments, but it is really cool to see you fully understand this movie, I feel like you're really turning into a movie buff. And the psychology stuff at the end? *chef's kiss*
Fletcher gave Andrew the carrot and stick approach where he basically bullied, berated and insulted him until he was almost at breaking point both physically and mentally and then turned around and gave him just enough carrot to make stay or reconsider leaving, goading him into trying harder. I had a similar experience with a teacher who very hard on his students, claiming he only wanted the best for us while I learned later that he only did it to feed his own narcissism and so that „his class“ would be the best.
Surprised you were able to catch so many nuances and themes like Fletcher’s motivations, Andrew’s family’s complacency, etc. on a first viewing. Usually takes a few watches to unpack all of those together.
You know what, I saw this movie earlier this year and I've your analysis at the end of the reaction has been so helpful when analysis is done on a movie it always makes the movie feel like it's a high quality masterpiece because it's not just people going around saying it's a good movie it's explained why like I've tried to do with my friends but you've made my perspective of the movie better so thanks man
21:53 I'm SO glad you kept this in. Not many reactions I saw did, but I was always stunned by her acting here. I almost cry with her. 😅
So authentic.
Yes, he can actually play! And JK Simmons can actually conduct musicians, too! What a pitch perfect movie. Damien Chazelle is a sick filmmaker and writer.
00:10 :D Stewie Griffin too-cool whip
Cool Whip!! 😆
Wheat Thins
Coming from a drummer when practicing sometimes I rage that hard and want to smash my drum head but still I get it!!
I’ve been a drummer for 47 years and I can tell you with 100 percent certainty that if you bleed and get blisters, you are doing it wrong and your technique is terrible. This is all Hollywood. Still a great movie though.
Good lord, the Triad metaphor turns what would've been an already fun watch along into a beautiful, unique analysis. You make me want to do the same, so I can enjoy watching films myself. BRILLIANT WORK, you have a new subscriber!!
Society likes to "have it's cake and eat it too" when it comes to the Genius/ Greats of Musicians, Artists, Writers, Athletes... We want the talent and masterpieces they produce, but we don't want them to have dirty pasts, trauma, addictions or mental health issues. How many "Greats" have we pitied because they slowly killed themselves with alcohol, and drugs? Can we play devil's advocate and ask ourselves if maybe the depression, trauma, and mental divergence of these people play into what makes them so special? I will never glorify the unhealthy habits or say that you must be tortured in order to be Great, but we must admit that we as a species would never understand the limits to what humans can do if there were not conflicted, divergent individuals pushing out of the healthy norm.
This
Fletcher showing Neiman what to expect before he put him on drums, destroying the white shirt guy by convincing him that he's in the wrong before doing the same thing to Neiman, will always be one of my favorite details. I think this is one of the ways that Fletcher justify his actions, that atleast he gave him a warning.
This movie was EXACTLY what I thought it would be. There was no way I was watching it alone! Thank you for your reaction Alex. Your thoughts are on point! That man was awful to the human condition. But we all enjoy and admire seeing (and being) greatness and there is no denying that pressure creates diamonds, but at what cost? Figuring it out could give you whiplash! It's corny but true! 🌽😂
Speaking of psychopathy, you gotta watch No Country For Old Men
Yes! I second this. 👍