G36 Heat Stress Test
Вставка
- Опубліковано 15 вер 2024
- The lore surrounding the G36 rifle is that its polymer receiver will shift under moments of heat stress, including assertions that 10MOA of deviation will occur after only 60 rounds fired. This claim was refuted and won by H&K in the German courts but, as always, the lore continues.
In this video we test two TommyBuilt T36 clones, one of them being built from an actual German parts kit, the other being all American parts, in an attempt to get to the bottom of this issue.
Special thanks to InRange supporter Steven for loaning his German parts kit build T36 to us for this project.
InRange is entirely viewer supported:
/ inrangetv
Regarding the elevation wheel turning in the video:
The elevation axis was locked with the lock screw, and yes, hat wheel was spinning on the axis but was moving itself, not the elevation adjustment. The wheel must be impinging upon the vice itself with the lock screw loosened for that wheel to effect elevation adjustment, it was merely spinning loosely and did *NOT* effect the rest.
So, I believe there is not smoke without fire. I totally convinced by your test, but it is really interesting what other things can potentially impact accuracy on possibly multiple occasions during real battle. Maybe some more rounds through the barrel or may be multiple heating and cooling or maybe impact while heated can break something too easily. Really curious in that g36 controversy. Thanks for video!
Did Nathan who did the Faxon videos start his own company? Or simply move on to something else.
You should test an AUG as well as it is also heavily polymer.
If HK was worried they could supplied the German military with the MG36.
My question is what is the impact of Karl hiking five miles, legging it half a mile with 100 pounds of kit and then dumping 60 rounds?
Should be a good indication if its the rifle or combat stress.
I fear this is a myth in the same realm as the M1 "ping of death": no matter how many times you disprove it, people won't believe you because "they don't say it for nothing."
I wounder how many has shoot more then one type of military selectfire rifle. I don´t think many have tested shooting the weapon in a rigg. I have heard pepole talk about a weapon they never shoot. even a round from.
I've never heard of the ping of death myth. What's that one about?
i dont have channel is the name of this there are no videos some FUDDlore about the distinctive *ping* giving away the position of an American soldier and telling the enemy that someone had run out of ammunition.
@@6Northwoods2 I assume, he is talking about the M1 Garand, which would eject a metal clip with a loud ping when empty. They myth is that enemy soldier would hear it and kill them while reloading. The truth is that it wasn't an issue as you are rarely alone on a battlefield and even though the ping is noticeable, it probably won't be heard over gun fire and explosions on a WW2 battlefield.
@@fangk.7367 I can see how people might think that, thanks.
And *that* is exactly what InRange does best!!!
Shouldn't be so rare: people being objective and honest, but look at the time: it's today.
Similar reaction. I'm English so have certain cultural responses. Some I can put aside but you tell me that the L1A1 is *not* a glorious rfile then my national justification reflex goes "La la la! Can't hear you!" Much like anything M4/M16 platform related to you lot...
And no, I don't insist that the L85 A1 is a good rifle. It was shit. A2? Sound enough. Right hand charging? We still do the same with bolties so why is that wrong?
Agreed, if only HK would make some of these rifles locally or that damn “sporting purposes” line got removed so we can have more of these wonderful rifles available here in the states.
BOTR and InrangeTV are the gun myth busters and I love it
Is that a Swiss M18 helmet in your avi? Cool!
Was a German army soldier 2006-2010.
That dual optic wasn't ever as cool as the people who designed it thought it was.
Fortunately after basic, they gave us the proper updated rifle where we could clamp our own optics on a top mounted rail.
It was a big step when it was introduced, but today it's outdated.
Grüße von einem ex Soldaten
The problem with the optics is primarily the speed of advancement in the field. Like a cell phone five years ago, by the time you get it there is already a much better one out.
It will likely plateau and then it could be unheard of to have soldiers placing their own optics instead of using the integrated ones.
Wtf. We're you serving in the EGB, that you had rails on your G36's at home?
I was in Afghanistan 2019 and I still had to carry the G36A0.
When you ever had a "Durchschlageübung" and tried to get a target view trough the G3s 400m aperture, while being wet from swimming through the rine, you want a dual sight, because it's too expensive and your G36 takes the boat, so you do not need to swim one armed :)
It is nicer than the iron sights on the G3, tough.
I've been serving for nearly 4 years now (bundeswehr) and most experienced Guys (mostly Grunts with at least +8 years) I talked to were satisfied with the G36, many even love it (even the ones who were on deployment)
I also love it, almost never had a malfunction with it (except blank rounds, those things are worse than a Zip pistol)
I remember that one time we spend hours with adjusting rifles in our Platoon, and the next day we shot at targets 400m away, most of us hit with 1-3 rounds which was phenomenal
The G36 is accurate if adjusted correctly and in overall a very good & fantastic assault rifle, there are only minor things which suck:
The Magazines shape which make it harder to pull & put them back in the pouches while also needing bigger pouches and thus more space for them (just compare m4 with g36 standard mags)
The Optics, the main one is small for todays standards and a bit weak (its reticle is perfect tough) and dont get me started on the red dot
Big, bulky, heavy, small lense & big dot which is not comatible with NVG
My conclusion: Keep the G36 system but its desperately needs to be modernized
But the ministry doesnt care, they simply want to waste money on a completely new rifle instead of unsing said money, to upgrade it
Its all about image, get a new modern rifle no matter how dumb that decision is, and all the normies will think youre competent and that "at least he's doing something"
The US military has put out a lot of requests to replace the AR platform, guess what’s still in service now. Even when the Marines switch to the HK, it’s essentially a piston AR. The biggest tragedy is that the G36 never got the aftermarket support and advancement it deserved to make it a modern weapon platform.
But isn't it cheaper to replace the whole rifle system, now. Rather than giving them a service life upgrade, and then changing the rifle system later down the line?
@@Orcawhale1 you forget that its not all about the cost to replaye it but also the what changes with it, new wepon parts in reserve, new training, the logistic alone is a beast in its own.
@@SonsOfLorgar I'm pretty sure G36 mag wells for STANAG mags already exist since it's a modular part and would make it much more attractive as an export gun.
@@NoNamePDG True, but asfaik they are already using it in their special forces and as a DMR, so i doubt it will be that big of a problem.
Test is inaccurate, not in German soil with actual Bundeswehr present.
Needs official Sachverständiger on site to verify test results.
TUV sagt NEIN?
MacGyverGuy Of cause you need original air from Hammelburg.
@@levoGAMES you are god damn right
And you need a Notar on site.
Yes this was what I always thought too, if the polymer started to melt within 60 round mag dumps then it wouldn’t have been accepted for service in the first place. The companies and militaries like to put the firearms through grueling testing to simulate the worst conditions in combat, and an issue as serious as the polymer melting would have not been overlooked for the duration of the G36’s service. Also to add that polymer technology has improved a lot during the Cold War, we have the capacity to make well built polymer systems as we see today in other militaries.
Good plastic can take 100+C no prob.
I could see it being a bad batch of plastic in one specific rifle that squeaked by quality control. But not a systemic malfuction to the whole produciton run.
It's just corruption, dudes. New arms contracts aren't going to sign themselves.
It could be that if you get the barrel hot a hundred times, then the polymer melts.
@@Seth9809 Or if you shoot the gun until it fails (something far beyond the expected duty cycle which might reasonably start melting things, like full auto mag-dumping hundreds of rounds), then it shoot it again without replacing the broken parts, it fails quickly.
As a german I realy hope someone shows this to our ministry of defence
well, it has been well established that the accuracy problems were mostly due to a bad ammo batch
Noooo I wanna see what happens with hk433.
In Spain we still use g36 anyway and probably we will for too long
@@arielgarcia5065 lol no, there is plans for santa barbara and HK to start soon with the HK433 for spain soon, but it has stopped due to NATO watching at the 6.5mm american trials
@@tommihommi1 I am a 100% sure that that wasn't the Problem. It was mostly PR and Press how pushed the allegeations against the G36. The G36 is built just as the BW wanted it, it was never designed to be a Battlerifle or even go into war, it was a time of peace back then.
Facts have no place in lobbying and politics
How dare you advise us not to tithe to the church of H&K.
The church of HK has been intellectually bankrupt since the late 90s. Their top products are now cost-and-complexity-added variants (not even necessarily improvements) on American designs. They weren't even willing to stoop to THAT until the German government told them "We want an AR platform, not an HK platform". Not saying the Americans rule the roost in all regards (after all, we buy all our machine guns from the Belgians), but surely that should have served as a wakeup call for them...
@@gastonbell108 Thats just...false. On so many levels. Yikes.
@@gastonbell108Nah, it was the Bits and Muricans that went to HK and said "fix our gun please?" Resulting in L86A2 and HK416.
Well, not really, but it goes to show how easy it is to twist reality into whatever bs you want it to be...
@@gastonbell108 Thats... so wrong I don't know where to start.
@@gastonbell108 Piston based rifles aren't "added complexity". They're simply the superior system, and all the world armies have/are adopting them
It's always funny how fast 30 rounds can disappear even in semi-auto.
Not to my wallet, it ain't!
@@Bubben246 facts
People think it's "a lot" when all they watch is Hollywood trash with infinite magazines and zero malfunctions. "30" can quickly turn to "29, accidentally charged the weapon twice" "24, discounting the light primer strikes", or even "zero because an out-of-battery detonation absolutely shattered the mag". Shit happens; it isn't always due to you but it's also almost never at a convenient time. Keep a butt-ton of mags, KEEP THEM LOADED, learn how to maintain them, and practice practice practice your reloads-- top-off, combat, from empty, snap-cap mixed, 2-3-2, etc. Just because your lovely little bangstick has 30 right now does NOT mean that is a guarantee or a certainty. Drilling for accidents will help your reaction time if a problem presents itself outside of a practice-friendly environment.
That’s a fully auto semi automatic.
@@scottcped
With a 30 magazine clip.
I'd love to see an accuracy test from more guns! dump 60-90 rounds and compare possible zero-shifting, flyers etc. Would be very interessting to see changes through the generations of the same gun.
I love transparent magazines. The rounds are like "yay, I'm next!".
Your avatar suites perfectly for this comm 😂👍
I read this in Randys voice ;
Why would you have had a thorough cleaning job on that gun?
Did you, I dunno, drop it in the mud, or something? 😂
Sleeping Insomiac they did a mud test with it
what kind of a monster would drop a g36 in the mud?
@@nemdenemam9753 InRange is the monster that we need, not the one we deserve.
@@nemdenemam9753 H&K, because apparently it's part of their routine testing...
There were similar reports from the US army in Afghanistan, where they mag dumped on full auto as enemy was trying to get into their COP/FOB to the point that rifles "melted" and failed. No rifle is designed to do mag dumps at cyclic continuously, and even actual MGs will struggle to survive that.
We normally had to change the barrel on our MG3's after two belts (200 rounds) of continious fire.
@@AldanFerrox We got trained on 150 rounds for a barrel change.
Let me tell you tho, the armory is not happy when you dump 600+ rounds through one in 30 seconds...
@@Chrinik We were also told to change after 150 rounds, but our commander said that changing after 200 rounds was good enough.
There's videos of H&K mag dumping the G36 until it gets set on fire. Cmags too, God knows how many rounds it ate.
@@AldanFerrox It's funny that they teach you same things as before in wehrmacht. 😀
Nice test! I served in Bundeswehr and fired over 100 rounds during a combat training with the G36 within short time. Probably 30 of those in full auto mode. I was still able to easily hit targets 250 - 300 m at the end of the training. Personally I have never experienced any problems with this rifle. Fully agree with your conclusion. Horrido, Martin 👊🏼💪🏼
Spoke to numerous soldiers in the Lithuanian armed forces who use G36KA4 and an older G36KV1 as the standard issue rifle for at least 15 years now . The conclusion is unilateral - it's an excellent rifle. Soldiers love it and praise its reliability. Did ask about the shift of impact issue in Germany due to overheating, the guys don't even know what to say because never experienced anything like it.
The whole G36 controversy was purely political in nature, people who actually use it love the thing.
No it wasn't. The ammunition used by the soldiers added to the heat of the country + full auto fire caused stoppages. This test was using different ammo and not in bursts while firing in the shade. They found out the problem and corrected it.
Im pretty sure it was a first generation issue that they fixed after finding out about it.
No matter if there was something to it or what caused it if yes, i think the reason for the blow up was that the G36 was acquired with a service time of 20 years in mind. Those 20 years were over in 2016. Of course the german small arms industry starts getting restless feet when they expected a new opportunity to snatch a giant contract, but when the time comes near, it doesn't look as if their cronies in the MoD can actually get away with it.
In the pre-Russia-invaded-Ukraine climate in Germany, they needed to have a good story to sell the public the idea of acquiring a new rifle. Especially with the Bundeswehrs well earned reputation in Germany to swallow one of the largest military budgets in the world whole and still not being able to have a single helicopter flight worthy.*
*For comparison: in 2017 UK had a military budget of 47 bn, Germany one of 44 bn, France of 57 bn. UK has 2 working aircraft carriers, France has one aircraft carrier, Germany in the same year estimated the Bundeswehr cou!d actually use something between 30%-70% of its vehicles (land, air and sea), the rest was defect. Please don't start with underfunded Bundeswehr crap. It's not underfunded, the money is simply leeched off.
I think the funniest story in modern small arms procurement is the British government sticking with their locally produced SA80 and going through like 3 different iterations because it was a flaming piece of shit. Until they finally decided to pay HK $3K per rifle to develop the A3 variant at which point they ought to have just bought a G36 or AR15 variant to begin with.
With Ursula involved, how would anyone believe it was political??? 😆
574 comments and nobody brought up that he wasn't using issue German ammo? What happened to you Internet? You used to be needlessly pedantic.
I pretty sure I counted 31 rounds in one of the magazines. Completely invalid test.
Zero use of the neato locking lugs on mags, no techno music bumping softly in the background, and I don't see a SHRED of flecktarn on his person. 0/100, test invalid, reported to Stasi Central Command, made a #cancelled post on my gun Insta, cried into my licensed HK416 airsoft gun while blaring Kraftwerk so _mütter_ can't hear me.
lol
He is reloading a gun slower then a soldier would do, which means gun has more time to cool down.
And also he is not on full auto (runs away)
@@argumasch663 One of the main reasons for the problems with the G36 was called the quality of German ammunition. So the comments about the test are quite correct. The claims about the" Best " carbine are completely ridiculous.
Thank you for using Ballistol, it is the best stuff ever made period. Danke aus Deutschland.
@@MrCarGuy Never heard that it would be good for dry environments. It was made in Germany for Germany. And we are nothing like Arizona. I have never found anything better, except if you need special things like thick fat or such.
@@MrCarGuy But nothing smells like it....hmmmm....pine needle-y goodness.
But yes, the amount of stuff you can use Ballistol for is amazing. Clean gun? Check.
Then use the same can to clean your dogs ears? Check.
XP
@@MrCarGuy jup, it is too liquid and vaporizes too quickly for an efficient lubricant in most cases, but is has an astonishing range of possible uses, e.g. sealing the wound if you stuck a fishing hook in your finger, making a stuck bicycle lock go again, silencing screeching screws in your bedframe, cleaning any kind of metal parts....
Plus the premium smell.
Great content as always. To anyone interested in the reliability part of the equation, I recommend watching video footage of a destruction test done at H&K in the 90s (here on YT under "G36 900 rounds full auto fire until failure test"). They put 900 rounds from 100-round beta mags through the rifle in under 4 minutes without a malfunction. If there really was a significant issue with the polymer, you'd expect that rifle to have turned into a puddle of molten plastic on the floor.
@Craig Koehler a lot of people were and some still are saying something along those lines. Just to be clear, I'm not saying Karl was saying anything of the sort here or anywhere else.
really cool video, but thats more a reliability than an accuracy test.
@@oluenionloppu true, edited the post to be more clear on that.
Thank you for transferring everithing into the metric system - it is really convinient
I'd love to hear that 1 hour conversation with Tom at TommyBuilt.
FINALLY a REAL and scientific test proving all the BS is just that. And yes, Tommy is an awesome guy. I have a feeling his sales will take another jump with this video out there now.
No, this is not scientific. Everything he said was very plausible, and I think the results are *likely* somewhat representative. But a sample size of one german barrel is not science. You always need a control group. That particular barrel could be much worse, or much better, than what is representative. Having served with both a G3, an MP5 and a G36 I actually think this particular barrel was either somewhat to the crappy side or wind conditions fucked with him. Had he done one or two more groupings, with all first shots being consistently low I'd be fully convinced. But then again, I only used one myself, and he does have a point that this barrel may in fact be past its intended service life. But we can only speculate until we compare at leas a handful of parts kits against an old-new stock barrel.
Umm. Sorry, but this is not a "scientific test", simply because of the small sample size. However: It is a test done as accurate and proper as possible for a private person, who doesn't have access to a hundred rifles and a hundred-thousand rounds of ammunition.
And ironically enough, it's still a better test than anything else out there so far.
@@lyxar777 Technically, it's still scientific in that the test can be recreated. You should still take it with a grain of salt though, because like you said, small sample size. I don't think sample size disqualifies something from being scientific, just limits its overall accuracy.
Scientific? He didn't track most of the rounds he fired, especially when heat is not fully spreaded. Some gun manufacturer and military test their rifle from first shot to the last, so they know what is the maximum deviation possible.
I heard it was due to thinner walled casings that sink less heat thereby putting more into the barrel.
Thumbs up for Celsius reading :D
@@shakingmyhead7707 Too bad the F system is not as systematic and consistent as C. The more minute measurements argument for which is "better" is also awful since decimals exist, and most people will not feel a difference in 1F or 0.5C if we're talking about how the numbers feel. I like my chilly temp to be 0-15C, warm 16-24, and hot 25+.
@@castform57 I felt like there wasn't a enough range in numbers while living in Europe for 3 years. Most cars thermostats didn't go into decimals either. Either way it doesn't matter unless you're a scientist.
@@castform57 I see you are a fellow big brain. I'd like to add, if metric was standardized during the time of The Founding Fathers, we wouldn't be using the "Standard"(English Imperial System).
@@shakingmyhead7707 You know, Celcius is metric...there are literally thousands of steps between each degree of Celcius if you want to be more "minute", Farenheit is a scale based on human body temperatures...I take the more accurate, scientifically usable Celcius scale than some arbitrary one some dude came up with meassuring his wife...
Or we could convert everything to Kelvin.
Celsius masterrace
Apparently UA-cam unsubscribed me from this channel so just seeing it now... Thanks
Today on Mythbusters, guess starring Karl Cassarda, we test the age old myth of the "Melty G36"
It had never occurred to me that they re-painted these targets inbetween shooting sessions; I always wondered if they bought new ones but it sounded weirdly complicated and expensive.
Interesting!
Yeah steel targets get totally fucking abused. Most people only get rid of them when the target is totally ruined
Is there a chance we can we get a InRangeTV interview with TommyBuilt? That sounds like it would be a great Q&A format style video like the Faxon interview.
As the chap was willing to chat for an hour perhaps he was already aware of the channel so odds on an in-depth may be short
I second this notion
Karl really scraping the barrel for excuses to mag dump the G36 :D
I served in the german army between 1996 and 2000. Never been to a real combat zone, all range training only. Nobody ever shoot back on us, i am not a veteran and cant say how this rifle performes in real combat. But man, i loved that rifle.
If you served in the military, you are a veteran. Thank you for your service to your country.
they did it, the mad lads actually did it
Not actual G36's, otherwise this would be a valid response. Stress testing a discount G36 is no jaw dropping feat my friend.
@@michaeljohnsonbaugh7962 these tommybuilt guns are extremely expensive, there's nothing discount about them.
@@michaeljohnsonbaugh7962 they could get the very first G36 ever off the line, hell, handcrafted and personally delivered to Karl, and people would still be saying it's an invalid test.
Victini0510 exactly
@@tommihommi1 Compared to an original, they are discount. Ntm this it could be gassed differently due it being a reproduction semi auto. Bit overpriced imo
Question more out of curiosity. Is there more heat from the mag dump than letting the gun absorb heat from the desert sun for an extended period of time? If so, then this question is a moot point. The question itself arises from Ian's video clarifying that the scandal reports heating of 1 side of the gun from it laying on the ground for an extended period of time, and an officer states a general property of polymers that gets taken out of context. And later that assumption was expanded to include ammo dump heat ups.
The guns where already at 37°C desert ambient temperature, nice and warn. This looks like a wrost case scenario.
@@Biker_Gremling Fully agree. The wonderful Arizonan desert did its job! :)
you can even see how the gun lies there one side up in the sun
@@Biker_Gremling A black gun gets a lot hotter than ambient air temperature from direct sun exposure, hardly "Worst case scenario"
Go shoot 2 magazines from a frozen AKM as fast as you can, in Siberian or Alaskan winter solstice temps, and put your bare hand on the front trunnion area, inside the receiver. Tell me what you feel.
I used the G36 back in 98/99 and 2000. Accuracy never was a problem. The rifle was accurate and reliable under all circumstances. The only thing that bothered me was the fact that it wasn´t quite as rugged as the G3, which I used before. I also liked the combination of red dot sight and scope.
I had G36 model KV2 made in 2006 in Germany. And it was awesome. I did overheat it many times and it did work perfectly. In five years of use I never ever had a jam or any sort of problem with live ammo. Even when its sandy muddy wet it was flawless.
Barrel life is 50000 shots. Then it needs to be replaced.
A very capable and reliable rifle.
Ahh our combat tupperware
That´s the kind of Tupperware Party I would participate.
Wot bout the Austrian Tupperware *cough* g_l_o_c_k
As i've commented before.
These guns, minus the horrendously long barrel, the magazines and the optic, are fantastic.
The complaints about ''not hitting jack'' from people who went on deployment with these, are mostly trackable to straight up not zeroing the rifles, the horrible optics and mirage from heat in deployment regions or human failure.
Thanks to InRange, 9 Hole and Steven for helping to clarify the ''cloud of misinformation'' arround the gun.
Vergelt's Gott and have a nice day!
Magpul makes G36 mags and there is also a replacement magwell for AR mags
I've heard that German soldiers only ever got to fire a couple rounds in training, which was why they had accuracy problems. Just what I heard though.
@@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts I know. I used the replacement Magwell and ran Gen 2 PMAG's and Lancers. Worked just fine.
Honestly the long barreled G-36s should have been phased out of deployment use, the KA2 version with the new rail is more than sufficient for combat use in the modern era, instead of literally rifles their dads could have used in basic training.
And alot of the troops that are suspected to engage in alot of combat (EGB, KSK, Paratroopers etc.) are issued new Ks with optics rail and have absolutely zero problems.
Keep the long guns for parade, training and as surplus. Give them new barrels and slowly upgrade them with rails if you must...probably more cost effective than what we are doing now.
Greetings, former German Panzergrenadier.
If the G36 got the same treatment of tech advancement and aftermarket development the current AR had compared to the original M16 that was adopted by the military, it would be a very competitive weapons platform.
i agree. With their upgrades, HK even managed to turn the l85 into a usable plattform.
Modern barrel, the aforementioned rails already in use and the magazine conversion piece that allow it to be issued with PMags/EMags would make it a very competitive rifle.
wasn't it eventually discovered that it was the ammo that was causing the intial accuracy issues? sounds very familiar to 1st gen m16
I have never heard of that.
It was most likely the solders being inacurate and blaming the tool
First gen M16 ....jam, could be fatal
Issue was fix shortly but the stupid myth still stick
Same for AK indestructible and no cleaning required myth
@@MyH3ntaiGirl I'd still say that a poorly maintained AK will work more reliably than a poorly maintained M-16...
But yeah, an AK can fail if not cared for, much like any other machine.
yeah, there was something that the ammo supplier got reprimanded for providing sub-par ammo to the army on a number of occasions.
I never had failure of the gun during my 8 years of service. And we all were used to the double optics. Never had any problems with my 36.
That badass old school carry handle/ optic is so cool it might have reduced thermometer reading. Jokes aside, anyone stateside that has used the G36 has fallen in love with it for a reason. Great content here, Karl.
This was covered by the What Would Stoner Do series and your interviews with Faxon. Green Mountain Barrels are also high quality and reasonably priced. So we know what processes Faxon uses in barrel manufacturing. I wonder what processes Green Mountain uses for their barrels? Great video and keep up the good work.
G36 accuracy was an inside job.
it quite literally is?
@@CKshouta yup
5.56 can't melt G36 trunnions.
I mean, odds are HK will get the contract for its replacement. Coinki of a goddamn dink.
@Falk M it better have suffered from them illegally exporting firearms to dodgy conflict zones, but instead, everyone picked up on the accuracy BS....makes you wonder...
If there's one thing to learn from this _"G36 innacuracy story"_ , is how powerful medias and word-spreading online can be. And how quickly it can tarnish the reputation something ( but sadly it could be somebody) based on baseless allegations/ misrepresented information.
I'm glad that InrangeTV as a channel strives to debunk misconceptions and remains as objective as possible, and moreover, fosters critical thinking.
It's corruption.
Who benefits from replacing the G36?
The media are obviously a part of it. "Only what goes through the media can be considered truth."
Interestingly the media talked hours about the inaccuracy of the rifle but noone gave a fuck when the court proved that the rifle was flawless.
Stories about things working seem less interesting than over exaggerated stories about bRokEn equipment.
It was a strategy made by politicans who wanted a new rifle. How can you justify investing into new weaponry? Make the current equipment look worse.
Thanks a lot to patreon supporters for making this illuminating and educating video possible
Shout out to this man for the pronunciation of „Bundeswehr“!
Fantastic stuff as always Karl! Thank you for continuing to bring us informative and entertaining vids like these and helping to kill off some of those really stupid old myths.
I love you guys!! Thank you for this vid..... I've been waiting a long time for this.
I am from Germany and this issue (which first came up in 2013) caused a huge discussion in the german Media in 2015.
Heckler & Koch (the producer of the G36) apolagized for the issue and fixed it rather quickly by redeveloping some of the inner parts of the G36 (I am not to much into weapons, so i can not tell which parts exactly had to be fixed or replaced). The G36's of the german milatry (Bundeswehr) got replaced by now and are fully functional. Unfortunetly a court said, that it was the fault of the Bundeswehr to buy this low quality weapons, so the Bundeswehr had to fully pay the replaced weapons to Heckler and Koch, even though Heckler & Koch were the one to fuck it up.
The german G36 in the video is obviously a model from 2015 or earlier.
Nah. I think the reality of the issue is more or less the same as the M4 - it's not a light support weapon but when used as one you run into problems. What you did here was good to give perspective.
This is basically it. If you use a G36 or M4 on a sustained firing schedule like a SAW, you will likely have problems eventually. But that has happened in events like the Battle of Wanat. The G36 will likely fair worse because polymer doesn't handle heat as well as aluminum.
It's actually amazing that a youtube channel does a more accurate and reliable test than the fucking bundeswehr.
Any plans to repeat the test with more "heating"? I would imagine shooting one group, then dumping 30, then doing the group again, then another 30 rounds, another group, until you have 10 or more groups would be interesting to see the shifting of the group over rising temperature.
It sounds like a nice idea, but are you willing to pay for the ammunition and the extra magazines?
There's so much you can do, but ultimately it will fall outside the design parameters of this gun (and honestly a lot of the AR platforms). These rifles weren't meant to be mag dump guns, that's what machine-guns are used for.
But also, Karl cited a claim of a massive shift in aim after 60 rounds fired.
Though if anyone wants to see magdumps, IV8888 had those videos.
The barrel of his AR-15 was glowing red hot after dumping 5 mags.
ua-cam.com/video/BSizVpfqFtw/v-deo.html
@@JeKramxel True, but that's what the German media critic is about. The concern is, that if you use what is pretty much a semi-automatic rifle with fully automatic trigger as a light machine gun or squad automatic weapon, the precision drops significantly and you can't use the thing as a DMR rifle any more. I only suggest to do what the other party considers "totally normal usage" and see wether, under these conditions, the error is reproduceable and in what manner. Also I have concerns about letting the rifle "cook" after the magdump. I'm not a gun guy but I've worked with metal a bit, and as far as my experience goes, the more uneven you heat a piece of metal, the bigger the heat deformation is.
Thanks for this tests InRangeTV! You showed it and you said it, no problems at all. And yes, on the barrell production of your two rifles are 20-30 years of production, material and experiences difference (barrell from the '90s vs. a barrell from today).
Nevermind, I said that (the G36 have no problems) under many videos and now, after years, a channel like you shows it to the world. Thanks!
I wish we could take this video effectivly against the old defence minister and shows it in the world press too.
Greetings from Germany! 🇩🇪
honestly you are the biggest and most Informative "Weapon in depth" Channel on YT and you still dont have a Sponsor?
Don’t want one. Thank you for the kind words, though! :)
Inrange is sponsored...by patreon supporters.
Only Dixie Waste Management...
Love sitting down enjoying a cup of coffee and an inrange vid pops up in my feed. Great video Karl, keep it up!
+1 for talking in imperial AND metric units 👍
Thank You Steven, Karl, Tommy built and All the sponsers! 👍👍👍🇺🇸
Finally, the time has come
Thank you very much four this Video.
I'm just a German and i use the G36 in my 23month Service in the Bundeswehr German Army.
I Shot in my Time "2006-2008" more than 1000 rounds with the G36 in range from 20 to 550 Meter and in my opinion its a great Combat rifle.
I dont now why the German press hate oure troops and our Equipment.
thanks for the metric conversion !
I'd also like to thank Tom and Steven for making this fascinating video possible.
All hail the German Combat Tupperware!!
Having served with both a G3, a G36 and an MP5 I'll second that in a heart beat. The G3 is heavy as fuck, but a relentlessly accurate hard hitter. The G36 feels like a toy gun the first time you pick it up, but man does it grow on you fast. So yeah, like Tupperware is top notch stuff when it comes to plastic utensils the G36 is top notch stuff when it come to polymer rifles.
I mean if it's effective
When I see the G36 with this optic, I immediately said "The Classic"
Sniper mains are not good people
The second mag of thirty only had twenty-nine rounds in it. Test: invalid. Nice try, German propaganda
I knew it. From my own experience in the german army with this rifle, I knew when the controversies came up, that it was bogus. Does the rifle have issues? Yes, nothing is perfect, but not to the claimed degree.
It was a political move to justify getting a new rifle adopted, you have to convince the german public it's nessecary or they will ask why fix what isn't broke and spend money that isn't needed...
H&K even offered to provide new, heavier and better barrels, which would have probably fixed even the old rifle issues, but the MOD denied.
Pretty much any service rifle goes through improvements in it's life...and while the G36 has "improved versions" they appear to be mainly parts kits, some grunts are still running around with literally 30 year old rifles, cause they still "work".
So a possible "G36A3" or whatever number we are on now, could have the new flat-top rail, new barrel made to new specs out of new materials, fix some ergonomic stuff, you know, the usual.
Spent the last half of the vid trying to figure if you were wearing AO lunar replica shades or not?
What a milestone for InRange to reach - this is a very relevant modern topic, one I'm excited to see covered by the professional attitude on the channel.
Another quality parcel of content! Loved it.
My time as a Fallschirmjäger in the Bundeswehr was during the change from the G3 to the G36. While I preferred the 7,62mm calibre to the 5,56mm, the G36 was in my experience very pleasant to shoot with. Only thing I disliked was the optics, same as being said in the video.
Thanks for using meters, centimetres and Celsius.
Danke schön, InRange. Maybe now they'll stop dissing one of the best rifles in service.
Per the comments, I'd say that's not likely.
@@InrangeTv There will always be those who believe the earth is flat and the G36 melts, unfortunately.
Oh and of course, wool jackets can stop .30 Carbine.
I cannot speak for everyone, But I'd like to see more factual videos about firearms for you. It's enjoyable.
Not former Bundeswehr but I had the opportunity to shoot the issued G36K (Kurz variant) with the standard BW dual optic system several times back in 2013. As long as you take time to adjust for zeroing, the gun is more than fine. Some aspects of the system are definitely aged, especially the optic, but the claims of the gun "melting" or otherwise becoming useless are nothing but a fantasy. It could use some modernisation work, but it doesn't need to be replaced.
Tommy does amazing work.
Talked to a contractor in Afghanistan about his G36k and his main complaints were that the fore end was too slick and the optic was garbage, and some problem with the magazines that he didn't elaborate on. The consensus among his guys was essentially that it was an okay rifle, but they preferred the m4 pattern with an acog we carried.
This has not been sufficiently heat tested, unless the testing was done by Al Pacino.
Say 'Wie gehts!' to my little friend!
Karl, thanks for restoring the trust in our german craftsmanship. Greetings from lower saxony, Germany.
Just waiting for the "ITS NOT THE EXACT SAME POLYMER THO!!!!!" comments
I only had to scroll down about a dozen comments to find one of those.
To be fair, certain polymers deal with heat significantly better than others, if it's a similar spec polymer then it shouldn't matter either way though.
@@williambell7763 It's still Polyamide 6.6
I love your brand of casual professionalism, Karl
ohhh, I'm looking forward to watching this
Finally some on who mentioned stress releiving related to barrel accuracy
Dieser Kommentarbereich ist jetzt Eigentum der Bundesrepublik Deutschland!
Jawohl, Herr Hauptfeldwebel!
das ist korrekt!
Verstanden!
Sichern der Kommentarsektion, "Gefällt mir" knopf Sturmreif schießen, "GMN-Knopf" decken. Ich will mindestens zwei MG auf der Videobeschreibung sehen, Zack Zack, Kameraden, das ist hier kein Ponyhof!
@@Chrinik Kommentarsektion gesichert! Gefällt mir Knopf steht ab sofort unter ihrem Kommando! GMN Knopf wurde durch unsere Scharfschützen ausgeschaltet und wir haben zwei Kaliber 50 M2 auf der Videobeschreibung klar zum Gefecht Herr Oberleutnant!
In the Spanish Army we use our version of the G36, but the barrels are made in Spain (Trubia), with our barrels, that heat stress is non existant, but is due to specifications.
Spanish range of temperatures are quite different than germans, ours are quite higher, so, our barrels are designed to withstand the heat.
Former German Soldier here, the claims are nonsense, we yeeted 6 magazines in a short time through the gun and we still hit our target within the margin of error. Quite a lot of Videos handled this topic and I don't recall anyone ever coming to the conclusion that the claims are justified. The only thing I would say that needs to be changed on the Bundeswehr variant is the Atrocious optics and rail system and replace it with one similar to the American T36 variant and it would be a better gun. It's nice to have those two scoped if needed but they are really, really bad, if you don't look precisely straight into the optics you won't see anything, with glasses you are borderline fucked from the start.
german here. After talking to a couple of german soldiers, the biggest problem of the g36 is that the stocks break from time to time after some riot control practices. Other than that they are loved for the mild recoil and light weight. Nobody had accuracy problems.
Man, it's almost as if HK knows what they are doing...
Dont be silly some guy living in his Moms basement knows more than the whole of the H&K company. After all he has shot 33000 rounds in a combat sim. Pizza eating slobs know best.
In my basic training in the Bundeswehr I had a g36 that went through like 20 recruits a year... with all the abuse first time handlers can offer to a rifle. I got a very good grouping with it after i was allowed to dump two mags down range.
I'm rather looking forward to what the replacement of the g36 will be.
I remember watching Alex C with tfb TV test this a few years ago with a "real" full auto g36 and and he came to a very similar conclusion. I really want one of those t36s that or a bren 2.
The T36 is great. I posted it early, but I love mine. Beats and AR any day in my book. And anything beats an AK in my book. The only thing that is close to the T36 would be the original Windham Bushmaster ACR (sadly sold mine years ago) but I would take a Bren as an equal to the ACR and the T36. Although I want two more T36's (a C and a K) before I get the Bren.
@@stagalgiz1097 I was looking at getting one but I've heard they are a bit ammo sensitive. Low powered Tula is def a no go. What has your experience been like?
Side note I just was able to snag a Bren 2. It's lovely lol
Honestly is makes sense that heat related accuracy issues would stem more from the design and metallurgy of the barrel than any movement or deformation of the trunnion. If there was a issue with the trunnion it would become apparent with every shot, or after a much higher volume of fire (more than 200 rounds minimum). But if you are dumping that much ammo through a rifle like this that quickly, you have bigger issues than group size.
This was a great test. I think it would carry over to testing other platforms as well. I know I’d love to see things like SCAR 16, AK-74, M4a1, LMT MRP, etc tested like this.
I luckily never had to shoot with a 5.56. Always 7.62x51! My G3 was made in 1956. Only the "plastic" parts were renewed and if I remember correctly the barrel was changed. I served my year of "Grundwehrdienst" in 2000/2001. And I have to say this old gun shot with me an average shooter quite good groups. Never missed a target at 200m (my largest distance were 600m).
I once shot a MG3 in "single round mode" (also 7.62x51) and with it I shot even better groups than with the G3! Single round mode is, for those who don't know it, when the feeding belt is propagated with one round and one round left and so on. At the end of the day your arms and shoulders do know what they've done. ;-)
Your conclusion is correct so far as I know (I'm not an expert on this field, but did a lot of research out of interest).
I don't know how the lead sled adjustments work but you can see on the second rounds of testing on the german guns when loading a mag he moves the big wheel at the front. Then at 12:10 as he fires the wheel turns more and more. Could this have affected the point of impact by moving the gun up or down slightly?
Good observation.
Hes still using the sights
@Ryan Yarnevich Not really, it was a valid question. That movement in the rig was extreme.
@Ryan Yarnevich Scheiße*
Mr mysterious he’s still using the sights but if the gun itself moved up or down a tiny bit then the point of impact would be off because of it his sight picture has nothing to do with how the gun is positioned.
Thanx Karl!!! A few points here: After reading the whole story in the German Wikipedia, my summary is as follows: There were rumours about a massive loss of precision at 200 meters after firing 90 rounds in quick succession. Because of that, the last part of the delivery of G36s to the German Bundeswehr was stopped temporarily. After lots and lots of testing, a German court decided that HK did not break the contract. In it was stated "the G36 has to be precise in single-shot mode" - it did not say "has to be precise after a lot of full-auto fire". Furthermore, HK complaint about an unfair comparison to an MG36, which obviously has a heavier barrel and therefore can take more heat before it warps. Additionally, it was mentioned that the G36-contract was done with HK because the Minister of Defence back then, Mr. Volker Kauder who wanted it because he is from the same state as HK is. Sounds familiar? That deal was set up like the ones in the US regarding the M16 back then or the F22 now (and a gazillion others) - things like that don't lead to anything positive, I'm afraid.
How come I see two G36, but not too Karls? : /
It was actually one G36 but only half a Karl
Both karls are sitting in the same spot
It's a karlspiracy
@@elijahaitaok8624 Yes, the second Karl is in a quantum superposition.
you idiot, the other Karl is filming
Thank you for showing the "Knallstock" so much love. A lot of soldiers throughout the world trust in that thing. That trust should not be broken by false information.
But this test wasn't done in Afghanistan, therefore, it doesn't count
And it wasn't shot by a German soldier! German ministry of defence categorically rejects this Yankee test and stands by its original decision and findings!
"Let's give it a while to sink in...."
(5 seconds later)
Picks up thermometer to check
Well if you wait too long the rifle cools again, making the excersise moot...
I will accept my patreon thank youse here. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing the T36 in a match, compared to the HK416.
Probably worth pointing out that the Green Mountain barrel blank used for the US gun is button rifled whereas the German barrel is cold hammer forged (AFAIK). According to the aforementioned Faxon interviews a CHF barrel cannot be fully stress-relieved the way a button barrel can, which can also help explain the difference in shift.
There is no controversy, has been resolved loooong time ago already
There are still enough idiots wanting to debate over the G36
FuckinAntiPope truth. MAC posted a poll awhile back asking a choice between Steyr AUG and G36, and having had some experience with G36- qualified gold Schutzenschnier in 2012- I prefer the rifle I know and am comfortable with an said so. Pissed off asshat decided I was an attention seeker and decided to try and school me for three days. Ridiculous.
Checking POI shift is a standard test by Rob Ski (an Army sniper) with the AK Operators' Union.
He runs three 30rd mags, and the AKs always shift zero, but not significantly