HK XM-8: What Was it and Why? (With Larry Vickers)
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- Опубліковано 19 кві 2018
- Larry Vickers has the closest thing most any of us will ever have to a true XM-8 rifle, and has more than a little trigger time on the original XM-8 rifles. So, I asked him to explain what the rifle was and why it failed to become the new American service rifle. It's a fascinating story that will give you a lot of insight into the state of rifle development over the last 20 years!
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I remember the XM-8 from Battlefield Bad Company 2. It basically took the place of the m16 as the default U.S. assault rifle and I thought it always looked fascinating.
Same here! Love that game!
Me too lol, loved the game
@pabloac524 It's also in the first bad company, but interestingly the HK416 is the standard US service rifle there, being replaced by the XM8 in 2. Which is funny because the USMC did end up using an HK416 (M27 IAR) as standard.
>US Army doesn't want picatinny
>US Army hates the proprietary mounts they requested
>20 years later MLOK is all the rage
The XM8 deserved better
Piotwor it's tough because only certain elements of the Army back then where serious about looking for an M16 M4 replacements. When the testing was being finalized the upper chains of command looked out were like whay are we doing this for because the Army didn't really come out with a requirement for rifle replacement and there lies the huge problem.
Xm8 got selected by the Malaysian military for it's special forces so it did end well.
Edgar Olivares MLOK just got selected:)
It was a g36 basically good thing we did not apot this
The G36 is a perfectly reliable weapon, all malfunctions are due to a lack of military funds
I remember when this gun was the "future" of all firearms, and also in every video game possible.
My inner child still thinks it's so gorgeous.
Me too.
i hope you cna somewhat meke or get this gun in call of duty modern warfare 2022
I remember in the 1st Ghost Recon, there was a character who carried one of these and she was quite badass!
The OICW was supposed to be the next generation, with dial0able ranges for grenade airburst and lots of other cool stuff, but it never really got out of the prototype stage. Some reasons were valid, others were BS like always.
The XM-8 is a cool sci-fi looking gun. No question. The only thing that comes closer to that in my real life experience is the Kriss Vector.
@@dwrdwlsn5 In Ghost Recon 1 the character specialists Will Jacobs (unlocked after the first mission) and Lindy Cohen (the woman you're talking about) carried the OICW. It was a pretty OP gun; could fire in single shot, 3-round burst, full auto + the 6 shot grenade launcher.
@@madgavin7568 Yep. Been a long time, but I have good memories from that game.
Ah, I remember back when this thing was in every shooter back when they thought it was going to replace the AR.
Followed by the FN Scar and the Bushmaster ACR :)
I remember the XM8 being in Ghost Recon 2 lol
It should have
Bad Company 2 baby
@@christopherson93 That's my exact memory of the XM8 too. It was so cool and futuristic looking compared to any other gun I had seen yet.
"Ok"
- Ian McCollum 2018
What the shit else are you supposed to say? It's Larry Vickers. "Oh, you busted a dude out of prison in Panama in '89 ahead of the invasion? Ok. You're part of the reason some really stellar weapon systems that US uses today exist? Ok."
"interesting"
@Jo Ke same LMAO
@@docwhiskey996 You can just nod. There's no requirement to say anything
Ian said OK as I read the comment and I laughed so suddenly I spat on my screen.
I remember that in bad company
YEAH Buddy!! Bad company was awesome!
People still play it on Xbox and PC. Amazing game
One of my favorite games of all time. I played medic with the XM8 LMG
And every game from around that time.
john m I remember, that Bad Company 2! I used the XM-8 all the time in that game. Good game, good times!
"9/11 was an explosion." Phrasing, Larry, phrasing!
But was he wrong?
Why are you booing? I'm right!
Quick better PULL IT before anyone notices...
Buck Flacks word to much smoke
@@hikikimori >Pretty weird how none of the Jewish employees were there that day
they were busy dancing mb
and Silverstein himself had a dermatologist appointment
that doctor saved his life, indeed
The OICW project... Because the Army wanted a Grenade Launcher with an undermounted Assault Rifle.
Airburst grenade launchers got cancelled in this year :(
Deawoo made the K11.
The problem with the 90's weapons systems was they where overly ambitious. Take the OICW and the XM8 as examples they wanted this perfect weapons. System that could be anything when in reality it was not the case.
@@808INFantry11X
OICW, OCSW, Future Combat Systems, Land Warrior, etc.
ghost recon on ps2 had the oicw, it was all I played with eventually lol that thing was fun in game, I can't imagine how much more fun it would be irl.
Remember the first time I saw this was on Mail Call with the late R. Lee Ermey showing it off back in 06' :,(
GreenManAiming rip ermey
;_;7
Goddammt Ermey you spastic!
Rest in Piece Sir!
Miss ya gunny
Don’t feel bad guys, the gunny had to go. Who else was going to escort Former First Lady Bush to Heaven’s gate?
Car designers be like: it needs more curves
Has to be aerodynamic
When you throw it at the enemy.
Who needs efficiency when you can have eFISHiency?
Sloped armour is great against incoming Armour Piercing shell.... oh wait.
Player Review and sponsors , lot of sponsorship logo paint on it.
I remember playing with this gun in ghost recon as a kid. My dad was in the defence industry at the time and was sure that this was the next service rifle of the US army. I thought it was so cool.
I remember seeing the XM8 in old shooting games. It was all the rage to put in the "new" assault rifle.
The XM8 wasn't adopted and everyone forgot about it.
I was really suprised to see it in 2012's Call of Duty.
BO2?
@@rosaliesicalag5225 Try Ghost Recon 2
Mobius one engage
@@rosaliesicalag5225It's depicted as the M8A1
How many adult films do I have to be in to afford one?
42 straight films 4 gay films and 1 where you let a horse pee on you
infinity
Depends if you got the hook up with Lisa Ann and Asa Akira.
Well, Ian (& Karl) are on Pornhub now so maybe he could answer...
Mike Phelps lol really?
I've always been interested in unicorn guns like the WA2000, G11, XM8, Colt LMG, etc
How about the Steyr ACR? That's a system I would've liked to see get somewhere.
XM29 OICW
@@Joshua_N-A That was in the Half Life 2 Beta. I wish it was in the final game.
Every time I see the XM-8, I see it's design legacy in the Scorpion Evo carbines. They have a very similar appearance externally anyways. I always wondered if it had been adopted where things would be today in the world of small arms. But, Malaysia has adopted them in some capacity so it's nice to see they still live on.
The other cool thing about the XM8 was that it had a common receiver, meaning you could adapt between carbine, CQB, sharpshooter & LMG variants by just swapping the barrel & handguards around.
Something that one was able to do with the M-16 in the late 1960's. Excepting oddities like the open bolt LMG variant of the M-16 (Where the FCG and bolt carrier is a bit different), changing configurations is quite simple.
The Stoner 63 and 63A would like a word or seven. Same principle, just a handful more parts to play with. Yet it predates the XM8 by roughly 40 years.
The m4 is easy enough to modify and they already have it in the system.
Xanatos712 and you can do the same thing with an AR, just swap uppers to fit your needs
That was a feature carried over from its parent - the G36. The fact that gets ignored is that you need a special mandrel and wrench to remove the barrel.
BEST CROSSOVER EVER!
Вот это встреча.
о вы из англии
ZOMBIERUS Рад видеть тебя ZOMBIERUS.
Yeah, like one the best gun channels meet one of the worst. Larry Vickers is great, but his channel is almost unwatchable.
peter who? No, ZombieRus is from Russia. He is the most popular Battlefield player/reviewer and he has a good content in Russian about Battlefield universe.
OMG, never expected the XM-8 would show up
Yeah talking about a moon rock.
TheDabadu
In other words, you had forgotten about this weapon?
I indeed did ;)
no one expects the XM-8 inquisition!
Got to looking up this rifle again and wish it would have done more. I actually got to shoot one years ago in '06 during a weapons expo in Germany. Also shot the detachable grenade launched launcher, XM307 AND XM312. Didn't realize at the time how lucky we were to even see them and now I search my stuff for the pictures of me holding it.
Between this and the ACR, as well as the 416 which were all supposed to replace the M4 at one point or another in the early GWoT, they found themselves in all the video games and on future weapons when I was a kid. This inspires some nostalgia.
The HK416 is now the standard infantry rifle for the U.S. Marines, as the M-27.
When I went to basic training in 2006 I remember there was posters in the chow hall of a squad of soldiers carrying XM-08
scavengerpro88 thats when i went ft sill E 1/19th
1tough0mbre Hey, my basic was with D battery 1/19th at Sill in 1990. The chow hall pics had tabbed soldiers with M16A2s, warpaint and boonie hats. There was also a pic of an SF ODA all carrying FAL rifles.
1tough0mbre I went to Fort Knox.
I went to Basic at Fort Knox in 2004. Was surprised later on when I returned as a NCO for unit movement training several years later and found out they did away with Basic there.
They'd seen their kids cartoons and they wanted their space guns. 🤣
Larry's like billy mays but with guns
But wait! Theres more
Ronco ⬆️
Have you seen Chris Costa tho? He even looks like Billy Mays.
@@LoganC1988 NOW how much would you pay?
KRAUT SPACE MAGIC!
I remember this in MGS4. Hideo Kojima figured this was going to be the US Army’s new rifle in the near future. Never happened. 10 years later and we’re still using M4s.
Now they went backwards and chose the SIG m5 that weighs over 11lbs with a suppressor and recoils like a 30-06 with its new bi metal cartridges, seems totally stupid. Great DMR rifle concept, dumb rifle to replace the M4/M-16
Dope shirt.
C&Rsenal didnt expect to see you here
MultiCockta The meeting of the Gun Jesus’s
With 58 "O-kay" in 22:16, this vid has a Isokpm (Ian saying o-kay per minute) of 2.6.
(Still the best channel on UA-cam ofc.)
Calle Söderberg I was gonna count and you beat me to it, I’m a year too late
I dream that one day I'll see a real G11 prototype on this show, and then I would die in peace.
Alex Geveling check H&Ks Instagram and Facebook
Same bro!
Let's up the ante: real G11 prototype. With ammo. Larry and Ian put it through its paces.
THE MOMENT ITS APPROACHING
ua-cam.com/video/QGKcvM2Hh4g/v-deo.html
When I’m designing a rifle that doesn’t use the 5.56
(Chuckles)
I’m in danger
Good joke. Also, that's for good reason.
Future Weapons reference?
@@mementomori2839 there is alot of thought to rid the military of 5.56 but it's just nothing really ever came of it because every round no matter in terms of superiority had its detractors which in the grand scheme of things didnt really make it all that superior
For the time being the it's going to be hard to do without the 5.56
@@808INFantry11X Current "assault rifle" or standard light infantry rifle doctrine, and "assault rifles" or "intermediate calibre" rifles have been tailored around the use of the 5.56, and there hasn't really been any development otherwise since the 60s. 5.56 is thoroughly entrenched within the military establishment in the US, so they are at loath to spend money and logistical effort on adopting a new round which - up until recently - had to conform to the standard of the current small intermediate calibre rifles, their current doctrine, as well as the standards of the 5.56 itself.
It's lovely to see you both so passionate about preserving and sharing information with others.
I remember owning an airsoft version of this 10+ years ago, RIP fish.
You just keep on delivering.Thanks.
The fact Larry V works on this site just adds massive kudos. Thanks Larry and Ian for your knowledge.
Keep in mind the G36 plastic site mount was a massive fail re combat and melting site mounts.
My trust in the US Army's decision re combat rifles is restored.
Hmmmm.. zeroing a red dot laser is very simple. You don't even need a live fire range if the day sight is zeroed. Seriously.
Love seeing Ian and Larry together, such a crazy amount of knowledge flows out of these videos!
I was the prototype machinist that made the hard parts, cut three lenses out of a bigger one, molds for the rubber buttons, and some assembly tools. I was told that when they tried to put 5000 rounds thru it, it caught on fire and the man shooting it tried to put it out buy slapping it and the plastic stuck to his hand and was burned very badly. I don't know if it's true, but that's what I was told.
"Hopes for G11 rising"
MrSharpClaw i will never give up hope...
Makes you wonder what happened to all the test guns they sent to the US and german militaries
Watch "The Armourors Bench" ;)
Terrance Petsas for the XM8, Malaysia bought them and actually issue them. No idea why.
lattimore27 I'm joining the Malaysian military then
The first time I saw this gun was in Crysis, tho they did call it the SCAR in the game....
But I went looking for that gun and found the XM-8 development, which blew my mind!
I think this is one of the most beautiful and elegant assault rifles ever designed.
Thanks for the info, i was looking for some more about it!
Gentlemen thank you so much for this video. It's always great to hear from someone who was directly involved in the process.
Man.. I sure do love your videos, Ian. The content is a smooth blend of consistently stellar information and concise story telling. Thank you (and whatever crew you may or may not have) for all the hard work. This video series truly gives me another thing on the list of things to look forward about my day.
Also, I like it more and more when you and Mr. Vickers do segments together. The chemistry there is definitely leveling out.
Ah yes, the legendary fishgun..
Hadrodon Hash tactical tuna, thank you very much.
No, that's the FN F2000
This was being teased about replacing the M4 when I was in basic, back in 2005.
Love seeing Larry and Ian doing these vids together. Great content guys, absolutely incredible.
I remember this being all the rage in like mid 2000s games
Quick Poll: Which looks more like a fish, the XM8 or the F2000?
EdM240B Shit, probably the XM8.
How dare you dispute the hegemony of the combat tuna !
Yes.
When it has the integrated sight cover the FN F2000 looks like a jet ski.
ARX is the ultimate fish gun
Well... Time for a 20 minutes poop break from work I guess...
Kozmik Cat boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I "poop" on company time rofl
So YOU are the bastard in the bathroom cubicle who spends half a fucking hour on his phone instead of letting me take shit! Damnit, man! Although, honestly, if we had better bathrooms in my workplace, I would probably do it every now and then to compensate for all those minutes I spend working and don't get paid.
In my office, we have 2 bathrooms for the entire floor :v (70+ people - which is actually agaisnt belgian regulations), the after lunch hour is a nightmare :v.
Kozmik Cat why not report your company for that come on, the govt there isn't that corrupt right
Steven Li meh... maybe when I've found another job :v, in the meantime, I'm getting a shitton of money for minimal work, I'm not really complaining (that much)...
gotta love when a southern guy talks about guns or race cars, always sound pretty convincing with whatever they're talking about.
Except when they talk about that whole states rights issue.
These guys are great together. Always happy to see a crossover.
Nice catch! Where'd you go fishing??
Germany my friend
Bad Company 2 flashbacks
I know I'm not the only one enjoying seeing you treo working together!
Love y'alls collaborative video's!
Love the cross over videos you do with Larry Vickers, there're always top notch and your expertise goes together like peanut butter and jelly.
Nice, I love fishing Ian you should do more fishing videos.
Almost Forgotten weapon. Thank for another great video.
I love these nerding out sessions with Larry.
Great Video. I love watching you and Larry Vickers. You two are premier experts in the field and share so much information. And I really enjoy it.
I remember when there were these pamphlets being passed around to some of us that had the XM8 and all it's potential variants. It had the standard with different barrels, marksman, lmg, a pdw looking one and some other variants. The pics were all cpu rendered. It also had the specs and descriptions of materials. I think it might have had an exploded parts view also. I have no idea why they gave them to us. Maybe to generate interest or something. Man, I haven't thought about that in years.
As a soldier now retired there were many promising developments expected, The Future Combat Systems, The RAH-66, The Crusader and of course the OICW/XM-8 program, I was at a minimum expecting the XM-8 to be fielded along with the long promised NLOS-C component of the FCS (I was artillery) but instead we stuck with the M4 and an upgraded M109 as the M109A7. Very disappointing how military developments go, The Air Force, Marines and Navy at least get their overpriced F-35...
To be fair, it's hard to adopt anything for the US military due to it's size and stockpile, for example, if you want to replace said Self Propelled Gun, you would need not just the one being used, but you'd need another two to hit the stockpile, some for training, then another two worth in parts, same thing with rifles and other such stuff, this is why the M4 will never leave service, there are more rifles then men to wield them, so to replace them would be basicly throwing away rifles that never see service, we had this problem with the M14 [We still have hundreds of thousands of M14s just sitting in warehouses.]
Redneck Fury I can see a future for all that unused weapons and equipment in my country: we have a lot to 'clean' (wink, wink) that this will do the work.
Honestly, I'm glad they didn't adopt the XM8. It might have been an improvement, but not enough of one to justify it.
These programs were all designed to fail and be replaced in a few years by others. It's more profitable to develop systems than to actually finish them.
Not as long as tax payer money gets pumped into the development process.
Two of my favorite channels together discussing a delightful specimen. Way to go, gentlemen!
I've been waiting for a video like this for quite some time. Very excited. Thank you
Omfg, is that Vickers tactical? Holy shit he loss a LOT of weight. Looking good m8...
Not m8, xm8.
Justanotherconsumer ayyy lmao
He overcame his injuries (lots of stupid loads carried long distance which ruined his poor knees and at least 3 helicopter crashes including one very bad one IIRC) and started Crossfitting RXin to his abilities a few years back. He has a video explaining why he 'got fat' and what he was doing about it a few years back I think.
@@cryhavoc999 holy fucking shit 3 chopper crashes ? Wow the guy is a machine
oh yes one of my favorite prototypes, i played a ton of battlefield bad company and i loved this gun i was so sad to find out it never really made it, i think some country in south america or aisa uses it though
chris speligene somebody else suggested it's in use by malaysian special forces.
mimim yep. Malaysian PASKAL definitely can be proud to be the only operator of XM8 and had a lot of trigger fingers behind it.
mimim yep that's quite true as PASKAL also operate a G36 in their inventory so it's quite logical choice for parts interchangeable with each other. I've seen G36 rifleman version. Almost as long as M16A1. I do know they had different variants in their arsenal but I don't know the specifics variants.
Amazing ...!!
The amount of knowledge between the two of you is mind boggling
Thank you
Great crossover, always good to see channels working togheter, and also with a fine gun
An artistic rifle? Perhaps, but the '21 Thompson SMG is the epitome of art deco...
Desire to know more intensifies.
Loving the collaborations with Larry. More please :)
Larry is looking great. It's always cool to see my favorite gun people get together for stuff like this.
Don't get me wrong, great interview and I love your stuff Ian and I know this is your channel, but I think it would have been interesting to have had Karl get in on this interview too. Probably would have gone on for a hour or so then as well lol.
I'm sorry. If it is over 40 minutes, I'm reluctant to click. Can sit and listen to some, but RARELY is there 40 minutes of content in the package. TV programs have professionals and better editing. YT is generally blathering and unfocussed. All due respect to Ian. He gets to the point.
I don't know how you put up with Larry, super full of himself. Keep it up dude!
Nice job getting ahold of one of these Ian. Did not expect to see this
Great video! Always full of great info. I'd love to see Vickers go more into depth on the development of the HK45.
This weapon wound up being at least mostly finished, its in service in Malaysia, the Navy I believe.
great info as always gents
I was waiting for this episode for so so so so so soooo long!!! Thank you Ian I love you.
Really cool insight. I had completely forgot about the XM8. Didn’t realize the effect it had on the aftermarket AR platform accessory industry, because that’s essentially its own industry now. Really cool “forgotten weapon”
"All this modularity stuff you see now, all started with this gun." COUGH COUGH
People looked at the Stoner in its time and said "huh, what a novel design"
People looked at the XM8 and thought "how can I best copy that?"
thank you based Eugene Stoner
Stoners always deserve love
It's funny that the AR-15/M16 fell into the Modularity niche accidentally. Stoner took that and ran with it on the Stoner 63.
Stoner 63 My thoughts exactly.
Oh
My
God
Two parts of the holy Gun Trinity
Who is the 3rd one?
Soshykin
The Holy Ghost is Colonel Jeff Cooper
who's third?
Is the third Hickock45?
The father, the son, and the holey range target?
Been waiting on this for so long and at last its here, nice job Ian
Awesome collaboration!
My phone is evil.
On a related note: YES!! Yes honey, I need this very expensive rifle. Yes indeed.
hey ian...thanks for this awesome video. Can u get your hands on a "Rheinmentall Steyr RS556"?
It's basicly a pricy german Ruger SR556 Takedown.
great to see Larry on your channel!
This was really pleasant to watch. Thx for sharing your insights of it.
Didn't a country in Asia actually adopt the XM8?
Connor English Malaysia, in very limited numbers.
It was adopted by the Malaysian PASKAL,the Malaysian naval special warfare unit
raiden z what do you mean
Didn't Singapore also get them in limited numbers as well?
Joe Blow I don't think they adopted them.The only known country to adopt the xm8 is Malaysia
US Army: hey guys, we're gonna adopt this cool new rifle we got HK to make for us
Politicians, lobbyists and other manufacturers: yeah, about that...
man I love your videos, so much information to absorb that I never knew before
Great interview
I remember this from BFBC:2
That man I would love to sit down with and pick his brains on. Especially with regards to this.
Though the history/process I'm familiar with is a bit different. The OICW programmed was canned due to the cost, something over $10,000 a unit, per soldier. That was just too expensive at the end of the day. So what they did was the separated the elements out, the grenade launcher element and the assault rifle element.
This element became the foundation of the XM8 package, which was a modular, end user customisable package. As said, it came in carbine, rifle, AR and marksman form. Even a version of without a stock, almost PDW version.
Still, I wish it had the time and money. It could have been something. Even set up like that.
Also, the hand guard, thanks for the new info. It's been difficult to get more of it.
There Be Game
It was expensive, way too heavy and the 20mm grenade launcher was underwhelming. The standalone version was to be made in 25mm but even that lacked the power to reliably kill even infantry apparently. AFAIK the project is scrapped, but the Canadians are looking at something similar with a three round 40mm grenade launcher or 12 gauge semiautomatic up top.
Interesting, think I need to refresh myself on some parts of it.
I remember it being described as heavy, but the info didn't specify to what degree. I won't argue there though. If I remember it correctly, it was damned bulky just visually.
Don't suppose you have some links to what the Canadians are thinking about?
There Be Game
I don't remember where but I remember reading that one of the reasons for scrapping the OICW project was that they felt the need to develop lighter materials for the combination of grenade launcher and rifle to be an alternative.
I found this regarding the Canadians: www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/en/dynamic-article.page?doc=the-evolution-of-the-smart-gun/i5xyz550
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/11/canadas-armed-forces-future-weapon/
Edited for clarification.
Thanks muchly.
Bringer of Storms The XM-25 was apparently well received among soldiers in Afghanistan that were willing to trade an M4 for one. However malfunction rates and a contract dispute between Orbital ATK and H&K over the latter not delivering units has probably killed it for good.
Epic. Love this format with Mr Vickers. 👍
Excellent video. I grew up fascinated by the OICW and subsequent split into the xm8 and grenade launcher. Very informative and interesting. Thank you.
Looks fucking great though
If it lost all the of the silly polymer housing, yes it would.
My middle name's "Not Safe"...well, actually it's Gordon..but errr...
Rags i actually thought you were fake. Do you like this kinda stuff?
Go. Away.
well hello there rags
Good doggo
Hey new guy where'd you get that gun? It looks slightly less crappy than the one you had before
Oh man. I saw a pic of this rifle once and its futuristic design really stood out to me. Now I know what it is! Thanks!
What a great video, thanks for posting Ian
Nice one. I was hoping Ian would take it apart to show the inner workings though, even if not all parts are original. Maybe for a next video?
It looks like a gun out of "Starship Troopers" movie
Joao Liduario that's what I always thought and why I always loved it!
Joao Liduario The Morita assault rifles from the Starship Troopers films are bullpup config Ruger Mini-15s
Got to have those space guns.
That's because one of the US army officials in charge of the project actually _asked_ HK to see if they could make it look kind of like the stuff from that movie. Ian even mentions it in one of his other videos about this gun.
Excellent content and presentation. Larry at his best.
This gun is amazing looking :) and good to know now more about it! Thanks for the informative and awesome video (as always)!
4 round burst assault rifle. Bursts can be fired in quick succession.
I just heard XboxAhoy's sound saying this...
burst is no good it kicks you off point of aim and it's over before you recover. auto you can hose and only lose the second and thirdish rounds before you fight it back on target for the rest of the mag or whatever you want.
I mean it does get bonus points for looking cool
Terrific info from two great guys. Thanks!
I look forward to more of these in the future.