Piotwor it's tough because only certain elements of the Army back then where serious about looking for an M16 M4 replacements. When the testing was being finalized the upper chains of command looked out were like whay are we doing this for because the Army didn't really come out with a requirement for rifle replacement and there lies the huge problem.
I remember in the 1st Ghost Recon, there was a character who carried one of these and she was quite badass! The OICW was supposed to be the next generation, with dial0able ranges for grenade airburst and lots of other cool stuff, but it never really got out of the prototype stage. Some reasons were valid, others were BS like always. The XM-8 is a cool sci-fi looking gun. No question. The only thing that comes closer to that in my real life experience is the Kriss Vector.
@@dwrdwlsn5 In Ghost Recon 1 the character specialists Will Jacobs (unlocked after the first mission) and Lindy Cohen (the woman you're talking about) carried the OICW. It was a pretty OP gun; could fire in single shot, 3-round burst, full auto + the 6 shot grenade launcher.
I remember the XM-8 from Battlefield Bad Company 2. It basically took the place of the m16 as the default U.S. assault rifle and I thought it always looked fascinating.
@pabloac524 It's also in the first bad company, but interestingly the HK416 is the standard US service rifle there, being replaced by the XM8 in 2. Which is funny because the USMC did end up using an HK416 (M27 IAR) as standard.
The problem with the 90's weapons systems was they where overly ambitious. Take the OICW and the XM8 as examples they wanted this perfect weapons. System that could be anything when in reality it was not the case.
ghost recon on ps2 had the oicw, it was all I played with eventually lol that thing was fun in game, I can't imagine how much more fun it would be irl.
I remember seeing the XM8 in old shooting games. It was all the rage to put in the "new" assault rifle. The XM8 wasn't adopted and everyone forgot about it. I was really suprised to see it in 2012's Call of Duty.
peter who? No, ZombieRus is from Russia. He is the most popular Battlefield player/reviewer and he has a good content in Russian about Battlefield universe.
Every time I see the XM-8, I see it's design legacy in the Scorpion Evo carbines. They have a very similar appearance externally anyways. I always wondered if it had been adopted where things would be today in the world of small arms. But, Malaysia has adopted them in some capacity so it's nice to see they still live on.
So YOU are the bastard in the bathroom cubicle who spends half a fucking hour on his phone instead of letting me take shit! Damnit, man! Although, honestly, if we had better bathrooms in my workplace, I would probably do it every now and then to compensate for all those minutes I spend working and don't get paid.
In my office, we have 2 bathrooms for the entire floor :v (70+ people - which is actually agaisnt belgian regulations), the after lunch hour is a nightmare :v.
Steven Li meh... maybe when I've found another job :v, in the meantime, I'm getting a shitton of money for minimal work, I'm not really complaining (that much)...
6 років тому+17
With 58 "O-kay" in 22:16, this vid has a Isokpm (Ian saying o-kay per minute) of 2.6. (Still the best channel on UA-cam ofc.)
Man.. I sure do love your videos, Ian. The content is a smooth blend of consistently stellar information and concise story telling. Thank you (and whatever crew you may or may not have) for all the hard work. This video series truly gives me another thing on the list of things to look forward about my day. Also, I like it more and more when you and Mr. Vickers do segments together. The chemistry there is definitely leveling out.
Got to looking up this rifle again and wish it would have done more. I actually got to shoot one years ago in '06 during a weapons expo in Germany. Also shot the detachable grenade launched launcher, XM307 AND XM312. Didn't realize at the time how lucky we were to even see them and now I search my stuff for the pictures of me holding it.
The first time I saw this gun was in Crysis, tho they did call it the SCAR in the game.... But I went looking for that gun and found the XM-8 development, which blew my mind! I think this is one of the most beautiful and elegant assault rifles ever designed. Thanks for the info, i was looking for some more about it!
Between this and the ACR, as well as the 416 which were all supposed to replace the M4 at one point or another in the early GWoT, they found themselves in all the video games and on future weapons when I was a kid. This inspires some nostalgia.
I remember when there were these pamphlets being passed around to some of us that had the XM8 and all it's potential variants. It had the standard with different barrels, marksman, lmg, a pdw looking one and some other variants. The pics were all cpu rendered. It also had the specs and descriptions of materials. I think it might have had an exploded parts view also. I have no idea why they gave them to us. Maybe to generate interest or something. Man, I haven't thought about that in years.
As a soldier now retired there were many promising developments expected, The Future Combat Systems, The RAH-66, The Crusader and of course the OICW/XM-8 program, I was at a minimum expecting the XM-8 to be fielded along with the long promised NLOS-C component of the FCS (I was artillery) but instead we stuck with the M4 and an upgraded M109 as the M109A7. Very disappointing how military developments go, The Air Force, Marines and Navy at least get their overpriced F-35...
To be fair, it's hard to adopt anything for the US military due to it's size and stockpile, for example, if you want to replace said Self Propelled Gun, you would need not just the one being used, but you'd need another two to hit the stockpile, some for training, then another two worth in parts, same thing with rifles and other such stuff, this is why the M4 will never leave service, there are more rifles then men to wield them, so to replace them would be basicly throwing away rifles that never see service, we had this problem with the M14 [We still have hundreds of thousands of M14s just sitting in warehouses.]
Redneck Fury I can see a future for all that unused weapons and equipment in my country: we have a lot to 'clean' (wink, wink) that this will do the work.
These programs were all designed to fail and be replaced in a few years by others. It's more profitable to develop systems than to actually finish them.
He overcame his injuries (lots of stupid loads carried long distance which ruined his poor knees and at least 3 helicopter crashes including one very bad one IIRC) and started Crossfitting RXin to his abilities a few years back. He has a video explaining why he 'got fat' and what he was doing about it a few years back I think.
oh yes one of my favorite prototypes, i played a ton of battlefield bad company and i loved this gun i was so sad to find out it never really made it, i think some country in south america or aisa uses it though
mimim yep that's quite true as PASKAL also operate a G36 in their inventory so it's quite logical choice for parts interchangeable with each other. I've seen G36 rifleman version. Almost as long as M16A1. I do know they had different variants in their arsenal but I don't know the specifics variants.
burst is no good it kicks you off point of aim and it's over before you recover. auto you can hose and only lose the second and thirdish rounds before you fight it back on target for the rest of the mag or whatever you want.
As an owner of an X-M8 Airsoft AEG, even as an airsoft thing, it was bigger and bulkier than I had anticipated. But the one I ordered was a cheap chinese manu and the thing was just very poorly constructed. What I didn't realize at the time was that the X-M8 in real life was effectively a g36 internally, and I couldn't appreciate that the X-M8 i ordered was just a g36 body conversion I got my fair share of "tags" with that thing, was a LOT of fun to lug around and get asked questions about it both on and off the field
There is no way a foreign / non-"military complex" company will get a contract for a major item like a standard service rifle. Same was seen how the military complex killed off the Dragon Skin body armor company (Pinnacle Armor), because it got known it was better then the interceptor body armor and dragon skin was given to VIP's but not the soldiers.
Really cool insight. I had completely forgot about the XM8. Didn’t realize the effect it had on the aftermarket AR platform accessory industry, because that’s essentially its own industry now. Really cool “forgotten weapon”
That's because one of the US army officials in charge of the project actually _asked_ HK to see if they could make it look kind of like the stuff from that movie. Ian even mentions it in one of his other videos about this gun.
HK got 27 Million dollars to reskin and improve the G36. They were actually paying video game companies to feature it. The XM8 is a key example of government wasteful spending. Army Marksmanship Unit shooters I spoke with at the time said their SDM M16A4 builds dramatically out shot the DMR variant of the XM8
Rule #1 of getting development money from the crusty old Generals at AMC: Make it look like some sci fi shit that they saw in 60's comics, and they will fork over millions for you to develop it. They really need to stop letting old officers who haven't held their own weapon in decades decide what grunts should have to work with. *edit* And don't forget to add the words Joint, Integrated, Force Multiplier, Warrior, Enhanced, or Lightweight (for an M88 Hercules) to the name, and you're in like sin.
Great video great gun, love a good crossover episode with Larry. BTW anyone else notice Larry using both pronunciations for "carbine" in the same sentence at 16:40?
So it's an "old" version of the Israeli Tavor? (They also designed the outer shell first and then made the internals fit that and it didn't turn out all that well (that's why IDF Special Forces don't want to surrender their M16s as far as I know!)) Still, great looking piece :)
My first exposure to the XM8 was when I played Metal Gear Solid 4. I thought it was pretty neat how the different members of Rat Patrol had their own variations of the weapon.
I remember the XM-8 mainly from the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter games (PC Version), which had it being the US service rifle in the "future" of 2013-14, I also think it was the starting basis for the US Service rifle in Crysis, the SCAR
I remember shortly after leaving Army Basic Training the first stories of this new system started showing up in Army Times and thinking it was pretty impressive compared to my M16A2 but after constant upgrades to our unit's armory by the time I left active duty 4 1/2 years later the XM8 looked like a joke compared to my M4A1 with all the bells and whistles.
Yeah thats the thing, the M4 can do everything this does with a few upgrades at a much lower cost. i mean a M4 costs the army like 650 per gun, these where looking to be in the thousands per unit for an initial contract
It makes me wonder if the XM8 wasn't the real kick off to the explosive growth of the AR-15 accessory marketplace, somebody saying "There's got to be a way to do more with this existing platform we can already get dirt cheap"
Definitely an interesting design with a lot of potential. I think the gun industry has mastered the basic infantry rifle with the M4 design at least when it comes to ergonomics and outside modular attachments. It won't be until ammunition is revolutionized into something like cartridgeless ammunition, energy or a rail gun comes into play and becomes heavily reliable do I see it possible to replace the AR-15/AK platforms. Even then I would not be surprised if those future weapons maintain the same ergonomic design functions of those rifles.
What I don't get about Larry Vickers is how can someone as knowledgeable and interesting as himself run what is basically a clickbait/gun porn channel. I'd rather watch him talk for half an hour than a 4 minute video of him shooting an exotic firearm.
Agreed, his videos are complete trash, not sure why he takes it that direction. I was surprised to enjoy this video, I usually avoid anything with Larry Vickers in it.
Krieger22FS But making longer, more informative videos would only HELP that - it's pretty clear that a lot of us just right here would be more inclined to check out his content if it actually had more content. A guy shooting a gun in slow mo doesn't make me more likely to purchase his for profit work, and the people that just want to see gun porn on UA-cam aren't exactly the type to drop 3 digits on a hystorical firearms book and spend a few hours reading it.
His classes are excellent. You get a lot of one on one attention. Because the class size is extremely small. As well, you hear some cool stories. Believe it or not, Larry is a very humble and super nice guy. A for his YT video's, he does have awesome slow mo, when other popular channels didn't have it. Larry is sponsored by many manufacture's and if YT revenue stopped today, it wouldn't have an affect on his sources of income. It was Daniel Defense who threw Larry a bone that kick started his career in what he does today. He provides manufactures like H&K and FN (to name a few) input on new firearm(s) design. Some of the features on the new FN-509 came from Larry and other people like him.
This is so weird... Last week, I said to my self "it would be really cool if Ian could take a look at the XM8," and now a week later, my wish is fulfilled! :O
The thing is though like with any rifle are they really much better then an AR or AK? The answer is always not better enough to make it worth it. The AR and AK platforms are still getting updates and developments on them even now it's unlikely any other platform will do anything any better then those two. Even if a platform has potential the problem is is it really worth it spending the time and effort developing a new platform instead of further developing already tried and true platforms.
This was adressed in the video. The only reason why this entire argument is even possible is because both rifles have had so much development time and like it was said, if you had given this rifle 2 more years back in 2002 it would probably have been a better platform and weapon than the AR15. Everything requires time to develop, we have just come to a point now where the AR15 platform has so much to offer on the open market, that there really isn't a reason to choose something else.
The US have always been extremely sluggish because of exactly that reason being brought forward and while it is not unreasonable, it should not hold as much relevance as was given to it. In this case, luckily, the market for AR15's picked up and there is more choice and adaptability than ever, however there are plenty of historical examples of exactly this line of thinking being to the detriment of the US forces.
Well, there are some difference, I owned an AR before, and tried a SCAR in shooting range once, and I was surprised by the recoil and vibration control on SCAR, the AR already has very little recoil, but the recoil on SCAR is just almost non exist, it is just a semi auto version, but I believed that if I can shoot it in full auto, I can easily handle the recoil and still keeps a decent accurcy with it. I tried AR with different muzzle brakes, some can reduce more recoil, but the vibration is still no where close to SCAR level.
From what I remember the early G36s had warm hand guard problems too. That was easily fixed though by replacing them with later models that had additional shielding inside. So I don't think that would have been hard to fix on this one. it's probably the same issue since it's basically the same gun at the base.
I was around Aberdeen proving ground, small arms section when this was being evaluated early 2002. IIRC the front grip overheating was a much bigger issue than Larry Vickers makes it out to be. You could get burnt firing off a magazine, or maybe two. The rest of the problems it had were pretty minor in comparison IIRC. Larry reminds me of other product sales guys in the business (sic). On the other hand, GD making the XM312 definitely had an easier time of it; there was much political pressure behind not cancelling that program in the face of a long string of failures in testing.
That man I would love to sit down with and pick his brains on. Especially with regards to this. Though the history/process I'm familiar with is a bit different. The OICW programmed was canned due to the cost, something over $10,000 a unit, per soldier. That was just too expensive at the end of the day. So what they did was the separated the elements out, the grenade launcher element and the assault rifle element. This element became the foundation of the XM8 package, which was a modular, end user customisable package. As said, it came in carbine, rifle, AR and marksman form. Even a version of without a stock, almost PDW version. Still, I wish it had the time and money. It could have been something. Even set up like that. Also, the hand guard, thanks for the new info. It's been difficult to get more of it.
There Be Game It was expensive, way too heavy and the 20mm grenade launcher was underwhelming. The standalone version was to be made in 25mm but even that lacked the power to reliably kill even infantry apparently. AFAIK the project is scrapped, but the Canadians are looking at something similar with a three round 40mm grenade launcher or 12 gauge semiautomatic up top.
Interesting, think I need to refresh myself on some parts of it. I remember it being described as heavy, but the info didn't specify to what degree. I won't argue there though. If I remember it correctly, it was damned bulky just visually. Don't suppose you have some links to what the Canadians are thinking about?
There Be Game I don't remember where but I remember reading that one of the reasons for scrapping the OICW project was that they felt the need to develop lighter materials for the combination of grenade launcher and rifle to be an alternative. I found this regarding the Canadians: www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/en/dynamic-article.page?doc=the-evolution-of-the-smart-gun/i5xyz550 www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/11/canadas-armed-forces-future-weapon/ Edited for clarification.
Bringer of Storms The XM-25 was apparently well received among soldiers in Afghanistan that were willing to trade an M4 for one. However malfunction rates and a contract dispute between Orbital ATK and H&K over the latter not delivering units has probably killed it for good.
EricTheCleric It famously flooded the media in the early 2000s as a futuristic rifle, which got everyone excited for a gun that would never be released to anyone, adding to its already exotic mystique.
He mentions that it was the first Rifle built with modularity for attachments in mind. It basically did for gun accessories and attachments what the Model T did for cars.
Yea, he went on ad nauseum about how great it was and how much potential it had - but then didn't go any further than saying that it was reliable because it's basically a G36 and it was very modular. ...and I'm sitting here thinking "am I supposed to be surprised that the army went M4 instead of this then?"
I don't know if you were into guns in the early 2000's, but if you were, you'd know this gun was everywhere. It was on TV, in magazines, and all sorts of media showing US soldiers in Iraq with experimental prototypes. There was so much hype around it, then...poof. Gone.
>US Army doesn't want picatinny
>US Army hates the proprietary mounts they requested
>20 years later MLOK is all the rage
The XM8 deserved better
Piotwor it's tough because only certain elements of the Army back then where serious about looking for an M16 M4 replacements. When the testing was being finalized the upper chains of command looked out were like whay are we doing this for because the Army didn't really come out with a requirement for rifle replacement and there lies the huge problem.
Xm8 got selected by the Malaysian military for it's special forces so it did end well.
Edgar Olivares MLOK just got selected:)
It was a g36 basically good thing we did not apot this
The G36 is a perfectly reliable weapon, all malfunctions are due to a lack of military funds
I remember when this gun was the "future" of all firearms, and also in every video game possible.
My inner child still thinks it's so gorgeous.
Me too.
i hope you cna somewhat meke or get this gun in call of duty modern warfare 2022
I remember in the 1st Ghost Recon, there was a character who carried one of these and she was quite badass!
The OICW was supposed to be the next generation, with dial0able ranges for grenade airburst and lots of other cool stuff, but it never really got out of the prototype stage. Some reasons were valid, others were BS like always.
The XM-8 is a cool sci-fi looking gun. No question. The only thing that comes closer to that in my real life experience is the Kriss Vector.
@@dwrdwlsn5 In Ghost Recon 1 the character specialists Will Jacobs (unlocked after the first mission) and Lindy Cohen (the woman you're talking about) carried the OICW. It was a pretty OP gun; could fire in single shot, 3-round burst, full auto + the 6 shot grenade launcher.
@@madgavin7568 Yep. Been a long time, but I have good memories from that game.
I remember that in bad company
YEAH Buddy!! Bad company was awesome!
People still play it on Xbox and PC. Amazing game
One of my favorite games of all time. I played medic with the XM8 LMG
And every game from around that time.
john m I remember, that Bad Company 2! I used the XM-8 all the time in that game. Good game, good times!
I remember the XM-8 from Battlefield Bad Company 2. It basically took the place of the m16 as the default U.S. assault rifle and I thought it always looked fascinating.
Same here! Love that game!
Me too lol, loved the game
@pabloac524 It's also in the first bad company, but interestingly the HK416 is the standard US service rifle there, being replaced by the XM8 in 2. Which is funny because the USMC did end up using an HK416 (M27 IAR) as standard.
Remember the first time I saw this was on Mail Call with the late R. Lee Ermey showing it off back in 06' :,(
GreenManAiming rip ermey
;_;7
Goddammt Ermey you spastic!
Rest in Piece Sir!
Miss ya gunny
Don’t feel bad guys, the gunny had to go. Who else was going to escort Former First Lady Bush to Heaven’s gate?
The OICW project... Because the Army wanted a Grenade Launcher with an undermounted Assault Rifle.
Airburst grenade launchers got cancelled in this year :(
Deawoo made the K11.
The problem with the 90's weapons systems was they where overly ambitious. Take the OICW and the XM8 as examples they wanted this perfect weapons. System that could be anything when in reality it was not the case.
@@808INFantry11X
OICW, OCSW, Future Combat Systems, Land Warrior, etc.
ghost recon on ps2 had the oicw, it was all I played with eventually lol that thing was fun in game, I can't imagine how much more fun it would be irl.
Car designers be like: it needs more curves
Has to be aerodynamic
When you throw it at the enemy.
Who needs efficiency when you can have eFISHiency?
Sloped armour is great against incoming Armour Piercing shell.... oh wait.
Player Review and sponsors , lot of sponsorship logo paint on it.
I remember seeing the XM8 in old shooting games. It was all the rage to put in the "new" assault rifle.
The XM8 wasn't adopted and everyone forgot about it.
I was really suprised to see it in 2012's Call of Duty.
BO2?
@@rosaliesicalag5225 Try Ghost Recon 2
Mobius one engage
@@rosaliesicalag5225It's depicted as the M8A1
BEST CROSSOVER EVER!
Вот это встреча.
о вы из англии
ZOMBIERUS Рад видеть тебя ZOMBIERUS.
Yeah, like one the best gun channels meet one of the worst. Larry Vickers is great, but his channel is almost unwatchable.
peter who? No, ZombieRus is from Russia. He is the most popular Battlefield player/reviewer and he has a good content in Russian about Battlefield universe.
Dope shirt.
C&Rsenal didnt expect to see you here
MultiCockta The meeting of the Gun Jesus’s
Every time I see the XM-8, I see it's design legacy in the Scorpion Evo carbines. They have a very similar appearance externally anyways. I always wondered if it had been adopted where things would be today in the world of small arms. But, Malaysia has adopted them in some capacity so it's nice to see they still live on.
KRAUT SPACE MAGIC!
Quick Poll: Which looks more like a fish, the XM8 or the F2000?
EdM240B Shit, probably the XM8.
How dare you dispute the hegemony of the combat tuna !
Yes.
When it has the integrated sight cover the FN F2000 looks like a jet ski.
ARX is the ultimate fish gun
I dream that one day I'll see a real G11 prototype on this show, and then I would die in peace.
Alex Geveling check H&Ks Instagram and Facebook
Same bro!
Let's up the ante: real G11 prototype. With ammo. Larry and Ian put it through its paces.
THE MOMENT ITS APPROACHING
ua-cam.com/video/QGKcvM2Hh4g/v-deo.html
Well... Time for a 20 minutes poop break from work I guess...
Kozmik Cat boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that's why I "poop" on company time rofl
So YOU are the bastard in the bathroom cubicle who spends half a fucking hour on his phone instead of letting me take shit! Damnit, man! Although, honestly, if we had better bathrooms in my workplace, I would probably do it every now and then to compensate for all those minutes I spend working and don't get paid.
In my office, we have 2 bathrooms for the entire floor :v (70+ people - which is actually agaisnt belgian regulations), the after lunch hour is a nightmare :v.
Kozmik Cat why not report your company for that come on, the govt there isn't that corrupt right
Steven Li meh... maybe when I've found another job :v, in the meantime, I'm getting a shitton of money for minimal work, I'm not really complaining (that much)...
With 58 "O-kay" in 22:16, this vid has a Isokpm (Ian saying o-kay per minute) of 2.6.
(Still the best channel on UA-cam ofc.)
Calle Söderberg I was gonna count and you beat me to it, I’m a year too late
I remember owning an airsoft version of this 10+ years ago, RIP fish.
You just keep on delivering.Thanks.
The fact Larry V works on this site just adds massive kudos. Thanks Larry and Ian for your knowledge.
Keep in mind the G36 plastic site mount was a massive fail re combat and melting site mounts.
My trust in the US Army's decision re combat rifles is restored.
Hmmmm.. zeroing a red dot laser is very simple. You don't even need a live fire range if the day sight is zeroed. Seriously.
Man.. I sure do love your videos, Ian. The content is a smooth blend of consistently stellar information and concise story telling. Thank you (and whatever crew you may or may not have) for all the hard work. This video series truly gives me another thing on the list of things to look forward about my day.
Also, I like it more and more when you and Mr. Vickers do segments together. The chemistry there is definitely leveling out.
Got to looking up this rifle again and wish it would have done more. I actually got to shoot one years ago in '06 during a weapons expo in Germany. Also shot the detachable grenade launched launcher, XM307 AND XM312. Didn't realize at the time how lucky we were to even see them and now I search my stuff for the pictures of me holding it.
The first time I saw this gun was in Crysis, tho they did call it the SCAR in the game....
But I went looking for that gun and found the XM-8 development, which blew my mind!
I think this is one of the most beautiful and elegant assault rifles ever designed.
Thanks for the info, i was looking for some more about it!
Between this and the ACR, as well as the 416 which were all supposed to replace the M4 at one point or another in the early GWoT, they found themselves in all the video games and on future weapons when I was a kid. This inspires some nostalgia.
The HK416 is now the standard infantry rifle for the U.S. Marines, as the M-27.
gotta love when a southern guy talks about guns or race cars, always sound pretty convincing with whatever they're talking about.
Except when they talk about that whole states rights issue.
Ah yes, the legendary fishgun..
Hadrodon Hash tactical tuna, thank you very much.
No, that's the FN F2000
This was being teased about replacing the M4 when I was in basic, back in 2005.
Nice catch! Where'd you go fishing??
Germany my friend
I remember when there were these pamphlets being passed around to some of us that had the XM8 and all it's potential variants. It had the standard with different barrels, marksman, lmg, a pdw looking one and some other variants. The pics were all cpu rendered. It also had the specs and descriptions of materials. I think it might have had an exploded parts view also. I have no idea why they gave them to us. Maybe to generate interest or something. Man, I haven't thought about that in years.
Nice, I love fishing Ian you should do more fishing videos.
Almost Forgotten weapon. Thank for another great video.
As a soldier now retired there were many promising developments expected, The Future Combat Systems, The RAH-66, The Crusader and of course the OICW/XM-8 program, I was at a minimum expecting the XM-8 to be fielded along with the long promised NLOS-C component of the FCS (I was artillery) but instead we stuck with the M4 and an upgraded M109 as the M109A7. Very disappointing how military developments go, The Air Force, Marines and Navy at least get their overpriced F-35...
To be fair, it's hard to adopt anything for the US military due to it's size and stockpile, for example, if you want to replace said Self Propelled Gun, you would need not just the one being used, but you'd need another two to hit the stockpile, some for training, then another two worth in parts, same thing with rifles and other such stuff, this is why the M4 will never leave service, there are more rifles then men to wield them, so to replace them would be basicly throwing away rifles that never see service, we had this problem with the M14 [We still have hundreds of thousands of M14s just sitting in warehouses.]
Redneck Fury I can see a future for all that unused weapons and equipment in my country: we have a lot to 'clean' (wink, wink) that this will do the work.
Honestly, I'm glad they didn't adopt the XM8. It might have been an improvement, but not enough of one to justify it.
These programs were all designed to fail and be replaced in a few years by others. It's more profitable to develop systems than to actually finish them.
Not as long as tax payer money gets pumped into the development process.
Omfg, is that Vickers tactical? Holy shit he loss a LOT of weight. Looking good m8...
Not m8, xm8.
Justanotherconsumer ayyy lmao
He overcame his injuries (lots of stupid loads carried long distance which ruined his poor knees and at least 3 helicopter crashes including one very bad one IIRC) and started Crossfitting RXin to his abilities a few years back. He has a video explaining why he 'got fat' and what he was doing about it a few years back I think.
@@cryhavoc999 holy fucking shit 3 chopper crashes ? Wow the guy is a machine
oh yes one of my favorite prototypes, i played a ton of battlefield bad company and i loved this gun i was so sad to find out it never really made it, i think some country in south america or aisa uses it though
chris speligene somebody else suggested it's in use by malaysian special forces.
mimim yep. Malaysian PASKAL definitely can be proud to be the only operator of XM8 and had a lot of trigger fingers behind it.
mimim yep that's quite true as PASKAL also operate a G36 in their inventory so it's quite logical choice for parts interchangeable with each other. I've seen G36 rifleman version. Almost as long as M16A1. I do know they had different variants in their arsenal but I don't know the specifics variants.
I’m glad somebody finally said it. The G36 style ambi charging handle requires you to have smaller hands to get under that optics rail.
Gentlemen thank you so much for this video. It's always great to hear from someone who was directly involved in the process.
My middle name's "Not Safe"...well, actually it's Gordon..but errr...
Rags i actually thought you were fake. Do you like this kinda stuff?
Go. Away.
well hello there rags
Good doggo
Hey new guy where'd you get that gun? It looks slightly less crappy than the one you had before
Great interview
I love these nerding out sessions with Larry.
Such well spoken and knowledgeable men
This weapon wound up being at least mostly finished, its in service in Malaysia, the Navy I believe.
4 round burst assault rifle. Bursts can be fired in quick succession.
I just heard XboxAhoy's sound saying this...
burst is no good it kicks you off point of aim and it's over before you recover. auto you can hose and only lose the second and thirdish rounds before you fight it back on target for the rest of the mag or whatever you want.
great info as always gents
US Army: hey guys, we're gonna adopt this cool new rifle we got HK to make for us
Politicians, lobbyists and other manufacturers: yeah, about that...
As an owner of an X-M8 Airsoft AEG, even as an airsoft thing, it was bigger and bulkier than I had anticipated. But the one I ordered was a cheap chinese manu and the thing was just very poorly constructed.
What I didn't realize at the time was that the X-M8 in real life was effectively a g36 internally, and I couldn't appreciate that the X-M8 i ordered was just a g36 body conversion
I got my fair share of "tags" with that thing, was a LOT of fun to lug around and get asked questions about it both on and off the field
My phone is evil.
On a related note: YES!! Yes honey, I need this very expensive rifle. Yes indeed.
Larry is so softly spoken...I really have to strain my ears to hear him.
I don't know how you put up with Larry, super full of himself. Keep it up dude!
I've been waiting to see an episode on the XM8. That gun was everywhere in video games for a few years and then just vanished.
Looks fucking great though
If it lost all the of the silly polymer housing, yes it would.
Oh man. I saw a pic of this rifle once and its futuristic design really stood out to me. Now I know what it is! Thanks!
There is no way a foreign / non-"military complex" company will get a contract for a major item like a standard service rifle.
Same was seen how the military complex killed off the Dragon Skin body armor company (Pinnacle Armor), because it got known it was better then the interceptor body armor and dragon skin was given to VIP's but not the soldiers.
Beretta ?
Dragon skin failed miserably in testing, afaik the "VIPs" who wore it only did because they acquired it themselves.
I know I'm not the only one enjoying seeing you treo working together!
Love y'alls collaborative video's!
Larry’s voice is really soothing for some reason.
Heh, I think he needs to learn an indoor voice and stop shouting
Nice job getting ahold of one of these Ian. Did not expect to see this
Really cool insight. I had completely forgot about the XM8. Didn’t realize the effect it had on the aftermarket AR platform accessory industry, because that’s essentially its own industry now. Really cool “forgotten weapon”
It looks like a gun out of "Starship Troopers" movie
Joao Liduario that's what I always thought and why I always loved it!
Joao Liduario The Morita assault rifles from the Starship Troopers films are bullpup config Ruger Mini-15s
Got to have those space guns.
That's because one of the US army officials in charge of the project actually _asked_ HK to see if they could make it look kind of like the stuff from that movie. Ian even mentions it in one of his other videos about this gun.
Larry is looking great. It's always cool to see my favorite gun people get together for stuff like this.
great to see Larry on your channel!
I mean it does get bonus points for looking cool
God damn, Larry's voice is powerful. Just seeing Ian interrupt him is scary.
HK got 27 Million dollars to reskin and improve the G36. They were actually paying video game companies to feature it. The XM8 is a key example of government wasteful spending.
Army Marksmanship Unit shooters I spoke with at the time said their SDM M16A4 builds dramatically out shot the DMR variant of the XM8
Great Video. I love watching you and Larry Vickers. You two are premier experts in the field and share so much information. And I really enjoy it.
Rule #1 of getting development money from the crusty old Generals at AMC: Make it look like some sci fi shit that they saw in 60's comics, and they will fork over millions for you to develop it. They really need to stop letting old officers who haven't held their own weapon in decades decide what grunts should have to work with.
*edit* And don't forget to add the words Joint, Integrated, Force Multiplier, Warrior, Enhanced, or Lightweight (for an M88 Hercules) to the name, and you're in like sin.
Two of my favorite channels together discussing a delightful specimen. Way to go, gentlemen!
IMO still the best looking battle rifle ive ever seen in my life including video games. Wish it could of been perfected and used.
Function over form. Can't forget that.
Great video great gun, love a good crossover episode with Larry. BTW anyone else notice Larry using both pronunciations for "carbine" in the same sentence at 16:40?
Nice one. I was hoping Ian would take it apart to show the inner workings though, even if not all parts are original. Maybe for a next video?
I've been waiting for a video like this for quite some time. Very excited. Thank you
The virgin SCARH < the *_Chad_* XM8
i could listen this guy for hours
So it's an "old" version of the Israeli Tavor? (They also designed the outer shell first and then made the internals fit that and it didn't turn out all that well (that's why IDF Special Forces don't want to surrender their M16s as far as I know!))
Still, great looking piece :)
tactical tuna
No, they didn't. Also, the Tavor has long replaced the M4 in front line troops, it reserve troops that still use the M4a1.
I love how he’s describing p-cap in great length rather than just showing it on the rifle sitting between them.
You have no idea how long I've waited for this.
You will never beat the AR/M16/M4 build. It's going to be with us for a long, long time
My first exposure to the XM8 was when I played Metal Gear Solid 4.
I thought it was pretty neat how the different members of Rat Patrol had their own variations of the weapon.
I remember the XM-8 mainly from the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter games (PC Version), which had it being the US service rifle in the "future" of 2013-14, I also think it was the starting basis for the US Service rifle in Crysis, the SCAR
I remember shortly after leaving Army Basic Training the first stories of this new system started showing up in Army Times and thinking it was pretty impressive compared to my M16A2 but after constant upgrades to our unit's armory by the time I left active duty 4 1/2 years later the XM8 looked like a joke compared to my M4A1 with all the bells and whistles.
Yeah thats the thing, the M4 can do everything this does with a few upgrades at a much lower cost. i mean a M4 costs the army like 650 per gun, these where looking to be in the thousands per unit for an initial contract
It makes me wonder if the XM8 wasn't the real kick off to the explosive growth of the AR-15 accessory marketplace, somebody saying "There's got to be a way to do more with this existing platform we can already get dirt cheap"
This is perhaps one of you'r most interesting documentarys.
Definitely an interesting design with a lot of potential. I think the gun industry has mastered the basic infantry rifle with the M4 design at least when it comes to ergonomics and outside modular attachments. It won't be until ammunition is revolutionized into something like cartridgeless ammunition, energy or a rail gun comes into play and becomes heavily reliable do I see it possible to replace the AR-15/AK platforms. Even then I would not be surprised if those future weapons maintain the same ergonomic design functions of those rifles.
I was waiting for this episode for so so so so so soooo long!!! Thank you Ian I love you.
What I don't get about Larry Vickers is how can someone as knowledgeable and interesting as himself run what is basically a clickbait/gun porn channel.
I'd rather watch him talk for half an hour than a 4 minute video of him shooting an exotic firearm.
Same here. His videos feel like they're trailers for full-length videos that don't actually exist.
Agreed, his videos are complete trash, not sure why he takes it that direction. I was surprised to enjoy this video, I usually avoid anything with Larry Vickers in it.
It's to sell the training classes, books and DVDs which do involve Larry talking for hours. And have a higher profit margin than YT ad revenue.
Krieger22FS But making longer, more informative videos would only HELP that - it's pretty clear that a lot of us just right here would be more inclined to check out his content if it actually had more content. A guy shooting a gun in slow mo doesn't make me more likely to purchase his for profit work, and the people that just want to see gun porn on UA-cam aren't exactly the type to drop 3 digits on a hystorical firearms book and spend a few hours reading it.
His classes are excellent. You get a lot of one on one attention. Because the class size is extremely small. As well, you hear some cool stories. Believe it or not, Larry is a very humble and super nice guy. A for his YT video's, he does have awesome slow mo, when other popular channels didn't have it. Larry is sponsored by many manufacture's and if YT revenue stopped today, it wouldn't have an affect on his sources of income. It was Daniel Defense who threw Larry a bone that kick started his career in what he does today. He provides manufactures like H&K and FN (to name a few) input on new firearm(s) design. Some of the features on the new FN-509 came from Larry and other people like him.
This is so weird... Last week, I said to my self "it would be really cool if Ian could take a look at the XM8," and now a week later, my wish is fulfilled! :O
The thing is though like with any rifle are they really much better then an AR or AK? The answer is always not better enough to make it worth it. The AR and AK platforms are still getting updates and developments on them even now it's unlikely any other platform will do anything any better then those two.
Even if a platform has potential the problem is is it really worth it spending the time and effort developing a new platform instead of further developing already tried and true platforms.
This was adressed in the video. The only reason why this entire argument is even possible is because both rifles have had so much development time and like it was said, if you had given this rifle 2 more years back in 2002 it would probably have been a better platform and weapon than the AR15.
Everything requires time to develop, we have just come to a point now where the AR15 platform has so much to offer on the open market, that there really isn't a reason to choose something else.
Even at the date of proposal, it was a bit much to suggest. The simple logistics of the change were stacked against acceptance.
The US have always been extremely sluggish because of exactly that reason being brought forward and while it is not unreasonable, it should not hold as much relevance as was given to it. In this case, luckily, the market for AR15's picked up and there is more choice and adaptability than ever, however there are plenty of historical examples of exactly this line of thinking being to the detriment of the US forces.
Well, there are some difference, I owned an AR before, and tried a SCAR in shooting range once, and I was surprised by the recoil and vibration control on SCAR, the AR already has very little recoil, but the recoil on SCAR is just almost non exist, it is just a semi auto version, but I believed that if I can shoot it in full auto, I can easily handle the recoil and still keeps a decent accurcy with it. I tried AR with different muzzle brakes, some can reduce more recoil, but the vibration is still no where close to SCAR level.
Robert McNamera would like to disagree
Sad to think this gun has probably been destroyed.
"Marvels Avengers infinity war is the most ambitious crossover event" *this video
Viktor you think getting two gun nuts to sit down and talk about an awesome gun for under an hour is harder than to make a crossover movie?
*smh*
@@F1fan4eva Still better than watching that outdated movie
I played with this gun in arma2, always wondered about its heritage. Looking forward to Larrys vid.
From what I remember the early G36s had warm hand guard problems too. That was easily fixed though by replacing them with later models that had additional shielding inside. So I don't think that would have been hard to fix on this one. it's probably the same issue since it's basically the same gun at the base.
They make a excellent team.
Wow I never knew, Larry's inside voice is indistinguishable from his outside voice..
man I love your videos, so much information to absorb that I never knew before
I was around Aberdeen proving ground, small arms section when this was being evaluated early 2002. IIRC the front grip overheating was a much bigger issue than Larry Vickers makes it out to be. You could get burnt firing off a magazine, or maybe two. The rest of the problems it had were pretty minor in comparison IIRC. Larry reminds me of other product sales guys in the business (sic). On the other hand, GD making the XM312 definitely had an easier time of it; there was much political pressure behind not cancelling that program in the face of a long string of failures in testing.
You finally got your hands on one!
That man I would love to sit down with and pick his brains on. Especially with regards to this.
Though the history/process I'm familiar with is a bit different. The OICW programmed was canned due to the cost, something over $10,000 a unit, per soldier. That was just too expensive at the end of the day. So what they did was the separated the elements out, the grenade launcher element and the assault rifle element.
This element became the foundation of the XM8 package, which was a modular, end user customisable package. As said, it came in carbine, rifle, AR and marksman form. Even a version of without a stock, almost PDW version.
Still, I wish it had the time and money. It could have been something. Even set up like that.
Also, the hand guard, thanks for the new info. It's been difficult to get more of it.
There Be Game
It was expensive, way too heavy and the 20mm grenade launcher was underwhelming. The standalone version was to be made in 25mm but even that lacked the power to reliably kill even infantry apparently. AFAIK the project is scrapped, but the Canadians are looking at something similar with a three round 40mm grenade launcher or 12 gauge semiautomatic up top.
Interesting, think I need to refresh myself on some parts of it.
I remember it being described as heavy, but the info didn't specify to what degree. I won't argue there though. If I remember it correctly, it was damned bulky just visually.
Don't suppose you have some links to what the Canadians are thinking about?
There Be Game
I don't remember where but I remember reading that one of the reasons for scrapping the OICW project was that they felt the need to develop lighter materials for the combination of grenade launcher and rifle to be an alternative.
I found this regarding the Canadians: www.drdc-rddc.gc.ca/en/dynamic-article.page?doc=the-evolution-of-the-smart-gun/i5xyz550
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2015/02/11/canadas-armed-forces-future-weapon/
Edited for clarification.
Thanks muchly.
Bringer of Storms The XM-25 was apparently well received among soldiers in Afghanistan that were willing to trade an M4 for one. However malfunction rates and a contract dispute between Orbital ATK and H&K over the latter not delivering units has probably killed it for good.
Amazing ...!!
The amount of knowledge between the two of you is mind boggling
Thank you
Larry speaks in vague terms and I'm still not sure what makes this gun special or interesting, other than being rare and submitted in military trials.
EricTheCleric it looks like a fish
EricTheCleric
It famously flooded the media in the early 2000s as a futuristic rifle, which got everyone excited for a gun that would never be released to anyone, adding to its already exotic mystique.
He mentions that it was the first Rifle built with modularity for attachments in mind.
It basically did for gun accessories and attachments what the Model T did for cars.
Yea, he went on ad nauseum about how great it was and how much potential it had - but then didn't go any further than saying that it was reliable because it's basically a G36 and it was very modular.
...and I'm sitting here thinking "am I supposed to be surprised that the army went M4 instead of this then?"
I don't know if you were into guns in the early 2000's, but if you were, you'd know this gun was everywhere. It was on TV, in magazines, and all sorts of media showing US soldiers in Iraq with experimental prototypes. There was so much hype around it, then...poof. Gone.
This was really pleasant to watch. Thx for sharing your insights of it.
Stop saying OK, just say K. It saves your vocal chords for audiobook recording, Christmas Carol singing etc.
I could listen to these two conversate for hours
Good to see Larry in better shape!
Excellent video. I grew up fascinated by the OICW and subsequent split into the xm8 and grenade launcher. Very informative and interesting. Thank you.
Epic. Love this format with Mr Vickers. 👍