An uneven head tube bearing seat was a major headache for me. A headset boring was exactly what I needed and I could not find a single shop in Toronto that even knew what I was talking about when I asked for service to have my headset bored, which is a 52mm 45 degree surface. Ultimately my frame was shipped all the way back to the manufacturer in Italy for the repair to be done at the factory, which was a four month turnaround. This was for a Basso frameset. I wish there was a bike shop as competent as yours in Toronto.
It might be worth searching for an independent mechanic? In my Australian city I know there’s at least a couple. I’ve found bike shops variable with the mechanical side. Plus they prefer to work on bikes they sold you.
Worse is when You have the knowledge and skills but cant use them and the bike shop operates only on " FAASTEEER " and " MOOOORE " and You as a passionate bike mech try to make things work the best you can in this chaos... Fantastic vidoe tho and I love to work like this !
As a bike shop myself, the problem is bike shops can't just focus on the high end consumers. Some places get lucky and get to do mostly high end stuff, like these guys, but most shops get the kid bringing in a 16 inch kids bike from pick-your-department-store, and they came in with a flat tire that is cracked and dry rotting and the tube is missing trying to tell us all they need is air. That's the true problem. Trust me, if I was working on Treks and Canyons and Bassos, and Factors and all the rest, I would have all those tools...... but the majority of people don't know or acknowledge or refuse to have services done even if these things DO need done. I have customers who refuse all the time to get a new chain. I always tell them that it will end up costing way more if they don't get a new chain. I had one customer leave my shop after such a conversation, his chain broke about a week later and he came in blaming us and left us a scathing review. The only time we touched his chain was with a Pedro's chain wear indicator. He was changing his bars from one size to another and getting new tapes while at it. We always do a general check on any bike that comes in on headsets, stem bolts, and seatpost bolts, wheel fastenings, and brake wear. Anything that could turn real bad real quick. So the chain is one thing we often throw into that mix. So that's the reason most shops don't do this level of perfection. Because of the customers themselves.
@ramsden35 I would LOVE to be that kind of shop, but unfortunately, most people, at least in Portland Oregon and surrounding areas, don't want that kind of high level perfectionist work because they don't understand that's what is causing them so many problems in addition to ordinary wear. It's truly a sad combination. We have the solution but they think we are trying to scam them. Honestly it's the manufacturer who should be charged for this type of work, especially on new bikes!
As a small independent bike workshop myself here in Norway I have exactly the same problem. I don't know how to tackle the whole QC problem reaching the customers without shoving it down their throat. I've considered posting my favourite mapdec videos and a select few other channels on my webpage as I wouldn't get close to making such good videos myself. But maybe even a mapdec video could look scammy or, "just another opinion" to the untrained eye. I'm not sure.
As a pro mechanic, our job is to help the customer achieve the experience they want. It takes serious talent and skills to keep the local restaurant dishwasher guy riding his only transportation reliably and affordably. AND, it takes a different, more expensive, and equally legitimate set of skills and tools to help the local dentist keep his fleet of S-Works bikes all running better than "factory". Paul is helping keep the discussion active and informed for those of us dealing with those higher end issues. Thanks.
Great video, thanks Paul. I bought an SL7 in April. 1,000 miles later and it’s started creaking. This is my first carbon bike and very different from what I am used to working on. I took your advice and fitted a set of FF riot 44s. Lovely wheel set. Now I have, thanks to you again, the knowledge to carry out a complete rebuild of my bike. Already found the battery held in the seat post with electrical tape. No wonder the bike builder omitted to sign his name on the release form. Watching you work, it is very rare to see such attention to detail, brilliant Paul, let’s hope you are settling new standards for the bike building industry to follow. Best wishes to you all at Mapdec Alan.
This man is an absolute trove of knowledge. Great video. I feel like relatively simple jobs are getting harder and harder for little to no benefit. I'm looking at you, headset internally routed cables. It's not hard to imagine a future where the hydraulic fluid comes up from the mounting bolts into the caliper, to eliminate the absolutely evil cable and make mundane jobs that much harder.
When I worked at a bike shop in the early 80s, it was standard practice to face chase and maybe ream high end frames. At that time the bikes didn’t come complete to us and we built the wheels and installed parts chosen by the customer. But we also checked wheels, hubs, bbs, headsets eats on production bikes too. We would bang out headsets that were pressed in already but we cleaned and greased hubs and bbs because we found many bikes were not well set up from the factory. Cables were pulled and greased and housings cut to length as they weren’t fixed to brakes and derailleurs. Most shops did that too in the Vancouver area. I don’t think that is done much anymore.
It was common practice to do all those checks as standard. We didn't write a big long list of grievances and give it to the customer with a big total at the bottom. It was just the way it was done. This guy has taken all those aspects that were just part of the normal checks done and monetized each individual aspect and them blamed the manufacturer for the costs. And can I ask exactly why he is greasing the outside of a sealed bearing on a carbon to steel interface? It's laughable. So many points to raise in that short video.
@@JUST-TAP-IT-IN well. We charge for it when it’s not a bike we sold. If we sold the bike, these checks are just standard. It’s a shame other shops don’t do it. I think you mean grease on the headset bearings. Simple, corrosion resistance. They are just chromium steel and will rust up pretty fast. It’s pretty common practice. Enjoy the rest of the channel.
There’s something very hypnotic about watching an expert do something to an incredibly elite level whether it’s bikes, the piano, a Swan Lake solo , reciting Shakespeare, riding a wave or laying bricks. Fantastic stuff as usual. 👍👍👍
It’s such a bummer, that you don’t get frames in a state like this from the manufacturers. And finding a LBS with your standard is hard. If it wasn’t for brexit, I would buy my frames from you, but with the headaches with customs here in germany, it doesn’t make sense. Thank you for this awesome content!
I agree! I would like to get my Time bike build by you. But from what I learned about Time the frame should be perfect without need of facing any surfaces. Great video!
@@diyanaraeesah5633 I thought about that. But it is tracked how you enter and leave the country. There will be questions about why you are leaving by bike.
Another helpful and confidence-building video - maybe not so much in attempting any of these procedures ourselves, but for fostering more informed cyclists, and better equipping us to engage in conversations with mechanics about our repairs. Thanks so much!
Time and time again I'm thinking that a video with a breakdown of all the types of grease and what to use them for, what to avoid etc., would be amazing
Because of QC I left carbon and now riding a USA handmade Ti frame. Had a Cervelo S5 ( 2016 Model ) and the rear dropout was so much out of spec that the wheel was never straight in the frame. Rode it like that for 10K miles and the frame cracked at the bb area. Replaced under warranty during the pandemic. Got the new frame and sold it on the same day for over MSRP because of the shortages! Used that money and got myself a nice Moots.
Honestly, this is all very interesting and eye opening. I agree there should be more QC on these products. In reality and having worked in a many shops, the real world solution is to send it back for warranty, not to sort it out in-shop and waste labor cost doing these fixes.
yeah... you'll know how long that takes, how much kick back you get, and how much it irritates customers though. Also, there is no guarantee the brand will fix it, even if they agree they just send another frame with a different fault. I honestly believe is is the absolute responsibility of the dealer to supply the quality final product to the end user. Thats what the sale of goods act says. If brands wish to also be dealers, then they need to better with their QC.
Paul excellent vid illustrating the perennial problem 👍 and the practicalities of how to mitigate it. Here’s the rant………..we all know the frame should have arrived within spec and fully flatted in the first place. The core issue is at present they need more than a tweak (bit different from the past) and that means workshop time, skills and cost and customers are (justifiably) frustrated having paid eye-watering amounts for the bike / frame in the first place. Manufacturers leave either the LBS (who are duty bound to supply a safe bike of merchantable quality) or more often the customer to foot the costs. Unfair to the LBS AND the customer. I was always taught fix issues and explain them to the customer, going so far as to return the worn / broken parts to said customer for inspection / education. It’s helpful to offer the remedial service you do (as there are few practical alternatives at present). Suggest customers voting with their feet and wallet is the only dynamic that can change that situation. Potential solution independent (ie: you) documented and formalised PDI on new frame builds for customers so equipping them with the means to either reject frames as unmerchantable or provide a basis to recoup all remedial costs from manufacturers through the legal system. You can continue to add value by fixing problems as now but also arm customers to recoup all their additional costs , including the cost of your time to inspect and produce the PDI report. Customers’ choice in all this. 🤔
It’s a service we are considering offering. The logistics is the main pain point. Thanks Kevin. I long for the day when a bike frame arrives with a full QC report
Sorry that’s taken so long. I’ve been pulled away with a load of email and web hosting issues. Back in the workshop on Friday. Life of a business owner. 🫣
Hi Paul enjoyed the video. You re tapped the bottom bracket threads and faced the shell but did not show us this bit because of what you said were comments from arm chair mechanics. Since i have watched your channel you have always encouraged people to offer opinions. It is not surprising that some of these you not agree with. You will never please everyone. However if you believe in what you are doing then be confident. You seem to have a successful business in a difficult market. Make the argument and then we the watchers can make our mind up. Do not be dragged into a slanging match. Thanks Thanks
Cheers Simon. I am getting used to the idea that as the channel grows the quality of the comments we get will also start to range in quality. There are some amazing viewers here who really add value with their comments and I would do well to remember that.
@@Mapdec well said Paul. Do not get into arguments with those people who do not agree with you. They are simply never going to believe in your philosophy of going the extra mile. Maybe with no real engineering or performance improvements but just taking pride in and believing in what you do. Do not get into arguments with people who are never ever going to come around to your way of thinking. Of course your trying to sell stuff you're a business. You think look and time are great and tell people you're not forcing anyone to buy anything. The watching public are free to look at other information and make their own decision. Keep up the good work. If you can run a successful business in this market you must be doing a lot of things right.
Great video , very informative - thanks. My only question would be why grease the outside of the headset bearings? In my experience this would just collect dirt. As a bike mechanic I really appreciate your content - thank you!
Thanks for the video! It prompted me to check my Time ADHX and I noticed no spacer was needed on the drive side, so I removed it. This should improve the chainline. I replaced the cheap Enduro ceramic bearings in the Rotor BB with NTN ones, using a plastic top cap to adjust from 25mm to 24mm. I’m not sure if they’re genuine NTN, so I’ll order some from Hambini when I can. I love that my Time has no creaks, except for the poorly designed Deda Superbox computer mount, which creaks constantly. I call my stem the "rain catcher" because it lets rain go straight to the headset bearing. I’ll likely replace that soon.
Woah. Hang on. There is some odd stuff in here. You replaced a Ceramic sealed bearing with a chromium steal, non sealed bearing? Why would you do that? What do you mean your stem catches rain? The Superbox stem top is no different. The cable guide might let water in, but it slopes and the route water would have to take would mean a lot of effort for rain water to make it down to the headset. The top cover seal would be much more vulnerable. The chainline for sram is 45mm how far out was it before?
@@Mapdec The replacement have full contact seal, they are NTN 6805LLU. I replaced them as the enduro (rotor ceramic bearing) are notchy already (1000km they were already bad, at 3000km they don't turn properly and started polishing the crank shaft). The only reason I got the ceramic was because the standard Rotor bottom bracket was out of stock. My crank is a Shimano 105 12 speed, without the spacer the chain line is around 45mm now (center of the frame to middle of the 2 chainring). Before it was 47mm with the 2mm spacer. I think the water come from that big opening where the cable comes out. I have now removed that piece an went fully integrated in the stem. We have some rain storm here, so water ingress is always an issue. I will keep an eye on it an see if water stopped going in.
Wouldn’t the other issue be with the smaller facing size be a potential for “Jacking” out the bonded sleeve when tightening BB? Very interesting how this isn’t a standard dimension. Nice job with the detail explanations on all locations.
Another great video thanks. Can I ask your advice for how to smooth the inside of a steel 31.6 seat tube? It’s very tight to get the dropper post to slide down - ended up needing grease which then leads to slipping issues.
@@Mapdeccheers not heard of a seatpost reamer! Will look into that for my home workshop (i.e. the kitchen), or see if LBS has one. Thanks for all the videos - I learn a lot from you for my home mountain bike builds / maintenance.
Thank you for the clear jargon free explanations of these things yet again! My BMC team machine was built by the bike shop (a chain store!) - do you have any tips on verifying that these steps were done correctly when they assembled it, without having to fully disassemble the bike?
I remember getting my Time ADHX and thinking, that's the first frame in years in which the axles go in and through without needing any sort of micro adjustment.
@@Mapdec there is a myth about using “normal” grease on raw carbon parts like the headset cups. ( although embedded in epoxy ) there are greases that exist that label themselves as “for carbon componentes” like the Massi grease. The urban myth is that certain greases will degrade the carbon.
even they are not always perfect. I think the best question to ask is what dealers do good QC? Argon18, Pivot, Rocky Mountain, Trek are probably among the most consistently ok. Although I think Trek are up there because of the training they give dealers.
Ride wrap only lasts one year , though . Hard to get it totally bubble free . Older bicycles need "made to order" which I have to make with a signwriter friend's assistance .
Ive been riding for 8yrs and ive changed 3 inner tubes and can index my gears, so I know what im talking about..... I've concluded that the bike industry is 20% Taiwan/Chinese factory, 80%Marketing buzzwords and BS sprinkled with 21%import tax. My Giant Revolt Adv Pro E-Tap came out the box with its wheels out of true and shifter bent....I think the consumers expectations are clouded by the 80% weather it be a Pinerello or a Halfords bike😏😉
20:05 What grease are you using? I just got the Mobil XHP 222, but I don't think I will use it. That grease smell strong (and I park my bike inside). I'm using the Finish Line premium grease which is ok, but I would like something more water resistant.
The tarmac SL8 Expert comes fitted with a SRAM dub bottom bracket fitted as standard be interested to find out what dimension Specialized faced the frame to.
This worries me. I have ordered a new 105 level Merida carbon road bike, due In October. Its coming from a big chain supplier in Australia who sell lots of low-mid bikes. I guess I'm going to have to talk to them in advance and make my expectations they check these things.
RE: SRAM bottom bracket in an Specialized SL8 frame. If they're not facing the bottom bracket correctly for the diameter of the bearing housing shouldn't Specialized be doing a recall on all their bikes sold with SRAM bottom brackets?
guess that depends how bad it is, or how old it is. Fresh out the box with lots of problems, we would just return it. A couple of minor problems we would fix. Most big problems are discovered once the bike has been ridden though
I've worked in QA for aboot 20 years now... I can garuntee, the inspectors are doing thier bit.... an then when a problem is found, there's a manager or director saying 'naaaaah let it go it'll be fine'............
@@Mapdec nope. Alu foundry industry. But, yeah thats a great idea. With the silly cost of bikes nowerdays I reckon a lot of people would! I doubt the big bike companies would let it happen though :'D
I always love your work, but it's INSANE that Dogmas and S-Works frames need these kind of work. Literally insane. I wish people stopped paying for overpriced bullshit like this. For the prices of these bikes they better be mechanically 99.999999% perfect otherwise just buy directly from chinese factories for 1/5 of the price. For the same if not better quality control. Ridiculous.
@@Mapdec It's Hambini's fault!! I'm exaggerating a bit from frustration, my preferred option has always been my local bike shop just for the community. But it's getting harder and harder to support the manufacturers..
It’s an interesting one. Worthy of a podcast. Frame for frame there is little in it. But Cofidis have few sponsors of trick bits to bring the weight down. The stock Corima wheels for example.
Every time i watch one of these videos there are so many laughable points raised and solutions found and most of them are designed to extract the maximum parts and labour time out of every customer. Unfortunately most people are ignorant of the fine details and because this guy delivers his discourse in a confident way with an upper class register he fools most of the people all of the time. Hambini is another one that dazzles with technical speak but his execution on video is also laughable in so many instances.
Probably best if you get back into your armchair, if you don't have the skills you can't comment. You can choose if you like, a worthless warranty on frame that creaks, or a professional willing to fix it. When I say professional, I mean someone with practise and skill, as well as insurance, reputation and accountability. Do you realise that for the customers I serve, it is easier for them to contact me, than it is for the brands of bicycle they buy. It is also their own choice and most often riders come to us after their dealers and brands refuse to help, or can't help. What a stupid comment.
Why is there issue with anyone about what he does with the frame. Clearly the owner of the frame has given Paul permission. Secondly the frame set replacement would take months and still may have issues. Clearly Paul is showing us flaws in frames that we didn’t know about so look at it as being educational.Paul this is great build and thank you for sharing your experiences as always a great UA-cam channel and in person he’s great guy also.
An uneven head tube bearing seat was a major headache for me. A headset boring was exactly what I needed and I could not find a single shop in Toronto that even knew what I was talking about when I asked for service to have my headset bored, which is a 52mm 45 degree surface. Ultimately my frame was shipped all the way back to the manufacturer in Italy for the repair to be done at the factory, which was a four month turnaround. This was for a Basso frameset. I wish there was a bike shop as competent as yours in Toronto.
What the actual F. That’s crazy!!
It might be worth searching for an independent mechanic? In my Australian city I know there’s at least a couple. I’ve found bike shops variable with the mechanical side. Plus they prefer to work on bikes they sold you.
The quality of craftsmanship both at making this video and bicycle maintenance is just insane. Bravo!
Thank you. Credit to Chris and JD for the video quality.
I wonder how many other mechanics/shops operate with this level of knowledge skill? Amazing to watch.
Worse is when You have the knowledge and skills but cant use them and the bike shop operates only on " FAASTEEER " and " MOOOORE " and You as a passionate bike mech try to make things work the best you can in this chaos... Fantastic vidoe tho and I love to work like this !
As a bike shop myself, the problem is bike shops can't just focus on the high end consumers. Some places get lucky and get to do mostly high end stuff, like these guys, but most shops get the kid bringing in a 16 inch kids bike from pick-your-department-store, and they came in with a flat tire that is cracked and dry rotting and the tube is missing trying to tell us all they need is air. That's the true problem. Trust me, if I was working on Treks and Canyons and Bassos, and Factors and all the rest, I would have all those tools...... but the majority of people don't know or acknowledge or refuse to have services done even if these things DO need done. I have customers who refuse all the time to get a new chain. I always tell them that it will end up costing way more if they don't get a new chain. I had one customer leave my shop after such a conversation, his chain broke about a week later and he came in blaming us and left us a scathing review. The only time we touched his chain was with a Pedro's chain wear indicator. He was changing his bars from one size to another and getting new tapes while at it. We always do a general check on any bike that comes in on headsets, stem bolts, and seatpost bolts, wheel fastenings, and brake wear. Anything that could turn real bad real quick. So the chain is one thing we often throw into that mix. So that's the reason most shops don't do this level of perfection. Because of the customers themselves.
Interesting insight thank you. I wish my experience was different, alas it wasn’t.
@ramsden35 I would LOVE to be that kind of shop, but unfortunately, most people, at least in Portland Oregon and surrounding areas, don't want that kind of high level perfectionist work because they don't understand that's what is causing them so many problems in addition to ordinary wear. It's truly a sad combination. We have the solution but they think we are trying to scam them. Honestly it's the manufacturer who should be charged for this type of work, especially on new bikes!
As a small independent bike workshop myself here in Norway I have exactly the same problem. I don't know how to tackle the whole QC problem reaching the customers without shoving it down their throat. I've considered posting my favourite mapdec videos and a select few other channels on my webpage as I wouldn't get close to making such good videos myself. But maybe even a mapdec video could look scammy or, "just another opinion" to the untrained eye. I'm not sure.
As a pro mechanic, our job is to help the customer achieve the experience they want. It takes serious talent and skills to keep the local restaurant dishwasher guy riding his only transportation reliably and affordably. AND, it takes a different, more expensive, and equally legitimate set of skills and tools to help the local dentist keep his fleet of S-Works bikes all running better than "factory". Paul is helping keep the discussion active and informed for those of us dealing with those higher end issues. Thanks.
Thanks. The wrenches on the DeliverRoo modified Amazon bikes are amazing.
Great video, thanks Paul. I bought an SL7 in April. 1,000 miles later and it’s started creaking. This is my first carbon bike and very different from what I am used to working on. I took your advice and fitted a set of FF riot 44s. Lovely wheel set.
Now I have, thanks to you again, the knowledge to carry out a complete rebuild of my bike. Already found the battery held in the seat post with electrical tape. No wonder the bike builder omitted to sign his name on the release form.
Watching you work, it is very rare to see such attention to detail, brilliant Paul, let’s hope you are settling new standards for the bike building industry to follow.
Best wishes to you all at Mapdec Alan.
nice wheels.. The Sl7 holds the Di2 battery in with 2 rubber grommets.
The pitfalls of Direct-to-Consumer become more acute
Thanks again! Simply the best bike content on youtube!
Wow, thanks!
This man is an absolute trove of knowledge. Great video.
I feel like relatively simple jobs are getting harder and harder for little to no benefit. I'm looking at you, headset internally routed cables. It's not hard to imagine a future where the hydraulic fluid comes up from the mounting bolts into the caliper, to eliminate the absolutely evil cable and make mundane jobs that much harder.
Thank you John
His videos are def❗️nitely Great🤘🤘
This is why my clients love my "in - house" builds in preference over foreign country assembly .
When I worked at a bike shop in the early 80s, it was standard practice to face chase and maybe ream high end frames. At that time the bikes didn’t come complete to us and we built the wheels and installed parts chosen by the customer. But we also checked wheels, hubs, bbs, headsets eats on production bikes too. We would bang out headsets that were pressed in already but we cleaned and greased hubs and bbs because we found many bikes were not well set up from the factory. Cables were pulled and greased and housings cut to length as they weren’t fixed to brakes and derailleurs. Most shops did that too in the Vancouver area. I don’t think that is done much anymore.
So right. People think I am mad for doing this now. It’s just how it always was.
@@MapdecWhen a customer is spending big money on a bike, it needs to be as perfect as possible including for any future parts changes.
It was common practice to do all those checks as standard. We didn't write a big long list of grievances and give it to the customer with a big total at the bottom. It was just the way it was done. This guy has taken all those aspects that were just part of the normal checks done and monetized each individual aspect and them blamed the manufacturer for the costs. And can I ask exactly why he is greasing the outside of a sealed bearing on a carbon to steel interface? It's laughable. So many points to raise in that short video.
@@JUST-TAP-IT-IN well. We charge for it when it’s not a bike we sold. If we sold the bike, these checks are just standard. It’s a shame other shops don’t do it. I think you mean grease on the headset bearings. Simple, corrosion resistance. They are just chromium steel and will rust up pretty fast. It’s pretty common practice. Enjoy the rest of the channel.
There’s something very hypnotic about watching an expert do something to an incredibly elite level whether it’s bikes, the piano, a Swan Lake solo , reciting Shakespeare, riding a wave or laying bricks. Fantastic stuff as usual. 👍👍👍
Wow, thanks!
It’s such a bummer, that you don’t get frames in a state like this from the manufacturers. And finding a LBS with your standard is hard. If it wasn’t for brexit, I would buy my frames from you, but with the headaches with customs here in germany, it doesn’t make sense.
Thank you for this awesome content!
🙏
I agree! I would like to get my Time bike build by you.
But from what I learned about Time the frame should be perfect without need of facing any surfaces.
Great video!
Why dont you catch a plane to UK but then ride a bike back. Its doable
@@diyanaraeesah5633 I thought about that. But it is tracked how you enter and leave the country. There will be questions about why you are leaving by bike.
@@raphindahouse Because you just bought an expensive bike, so you have no money to take the plane back!
Another helpful and confidence-building video - maybe not so much in attempting any of these procedures ourselves, but for fostering more informed cyclists, and better equipping us to engage in conversations with mechanics about our repairs. Thanks so much!
Glad it was helpful!
Cracking video, great to geek out to.
And also why I'd never buy direct-to-consumer. The LBS is essential imo
Time and time again I'm thinking that a video with a breakdown of all the types of grease and what to use them for, what to avoid etc., would be amazing
If I can ever think of a way to make that slightly interesting
Another brilliant video - thx, and keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
Thanks Paul, another great Video!
Glad you enjoyed it
I'd like to build my own bike one day but then i see a video like this and realise how so many things could go wrong.
Depends how perfect you want it. Some people really don’t mind the odd creak or rattle and never notice. Others hear and feel everything.
Because of QC I left carbon and now riding a USA handmade Ti frame. Had a Cervelo S5 ( 2016 Model ) and the rear dropout was so much out of spec that the wheel was never straight in the frame. Rode it like that for 10K miles and the frame cracked at the bb area. Replaced under warranty during the pandemic. Got the new frame and sold it on the same day for over MSRP because of the shortages! Used that money and got myself a nice Moots.
Sadly a familiar story. Congratulations on the Moots. Nice.
@@Mapdec Thank you sir!
Nice tan lines Paul. Glad you are getting some time on the trails, as well as on the tools.
It’s been pretty challenging this summer.
Honestly, this is all very interesting and eye opening. I agree there should be more QC on these products. In reality and having worked in a many shops, the real world solution is to send it back for warranty, not to sort it out in-shop and waste labor cost doing these fixes.
yeah... you'll know how long that takes, how much kick back you get, and how much it irritates customers though. Also, there is no guarantee the brand will fix it, even if they agree they just send another frame with a different fault. I honestly believe is is the absolute responsibility of the dealer to supply the quality final product to the end user. Thats what the sale of goods act says. If brands wish to also be dealers, then they need to better with their QC.
Paul excellent vid illustrating the perennial problem 👍 and the practicalities of how to mitigate it. Here’s the rant………..we all know the frame should have arrived within spec and fully flatted in the first place. The core issue is at present they need more than a tweak (bit different from the past) and that means workshop time, skills and cost and customers are (justifiably) frustrated having paid eye-watering amounts for the bike / frame in the first place. Manufacturers leave either the LBS (who are duty bound to supply a safe bike of merchantable quality) or more often the customer to foot the costs. Unfair to the LBS AND the customer.
I was always taught fix issues and explain them to the customer, going so far as to return the worn / broken parts to said customer for inspection / education. It’s helpful to offer the remedial service you do (as there are few practical alternatives at present). Suggest customers voting with their feet and wallet is the only dynamic that can change that situation. Potential solution independent (ie: you) documented and formalised PDI on new frame builds for customers so equipping them with the means to either reject frames as unmerchantable or provide a basis to recoup all remedial costs from manufacturers through the legal system. You can continue to add value by fixing problems as now but also arm customers to recoup all their additional costs , including the cost of your time to inspect and produce the PDI report. Customers’ choice in all this. 🤔
It’s a service we are considering offering. The logistics is the main pain point. Thanks Kevin. I long for the day when a bike frame arrives with a full QC report
So glad to see you mention swerving white Lithium grease. Such crap!
Love this channel, I learn so much from videos like this.
another really useful good video - thankyou & indeed please more ' perfect installation ' ones - great channel !
Thanks, will do!
Thanks for sharing this knowledge. It’s also good for LBS mechanic to learn from your video. Great job 👏 👍🙏
Thank you.
Another great video 👍 Looking forward to getting my Boardman back with the bottom bracket issue sorted. 🚴♀️👍
Sorry that’s taken so long. I’ve been pulled away with a load of email and web hosting issues. Back in the workshop on Friday. Life of a business owner. 🫣
Great vlog, thank you for sharing your knowledge and details of what to look for. Many thanks.
Fantastic video, very helpful!
Hi Paul enjoyed the video. You re tapped the bottom bracket threads and faced the shell but did not show us this bit because of what you said were comments from arm chair mechanics. Since i have watched your channel you have always encouraged people to offer opinions. It is not surprising that some of these you not agree with. You will never please everyone. However if you believe in what you are doing then be confident. You seem to have a successful business in a difficult market. Make the argument and then we the watchers can make our mind up. Do not be dragged into a slanging match. Thanks Thanks
Cheers Simon. I am getting used to the idea that as the channel grows the quality of the comments we get will also start to range in quality. There are some amazing viewers here who really add value with their comments and I would do well to remember that.
@@Mapdec well said Paul. Do not get into arguments with those people who do not agree with you. They are simply never going to believe in your philosophy of going the extra mile. Maybe with no real engineering or performance improvements but just taking pride in and believing in what you do. Do not get into arguments with people who are never ever going to come around to your way of thinking. Of course your trying to sell stuff you're a business. You think look and time are great and tell people you're not forcing anyone to buy anything. The watching public are free to look at other information and make their own decision. Keep up the good work. If you can run a successful business in this market you must be doing a lot of things right.
Enjoyed that, always learning thanks Dec 👍🏻
🤷♂️
Great work mate!
Never ceases to amaze me, just how shit the build and QC is on so called high end frames!
This is bike knowledge Gold. Many thanks for this marvellous content 🇫🇮😎
Thanks Dean
Fantastic help, thanks a lot!
Great video , very informative - thanks.
My only question would be why grease the outside of the headset bearings? In my experience this would just collect dirt.
As a bike mechanic I really appreciate your content - thank you!
Just for an amount of corrosion resistance.
Thanks for the video! It prompted me to check my Time ADHX and I noticed no spacer was needed on the drive side, so I removed it. This should improve the chainline. I replaced the cheap Enduro ceramic bearings in the Rotor BB with NTN ones, using a plastic top cap to adjust from 25mm to 24mm. I’m not sure if they’re genuine NTN, so I’ll order some from Hambini when I can. I love that my Time has no creaks, except for the poorly designed Deda Superbox computer mount, which creaks constantly. I call my stem the "rain catcher" because it lets rain go straight to the headset bearing. I’ll likely replace that soon.
Woah. Hang on. There is some odd stuff in here. You replaced a Ceramic sealed bearing with a chromium steal, non sealed bearing? Why would you do that? What do you mean your stem catches rain? The Superbox stem top is no different. The cable guide might let water in, but it slopes and the route water would have to take would mean a lot of effort for rain water to make it down to the headset. The top cover seal would be much more vulnerable. The chainline for sram is 45mm how far out was it before?
@@Mapdec The replacement have full contact seal, they are NTN 6805LLU. I replaced them as the enduro (rotor ceramic bearing) are notchy already (1000km they were already bad, at 3000km they don't turn properly and started polishing the crank shaft). The only reason I got the ceramic was because the standard Rotor bottom bracket was out of stock.
My crank is a Shimano 105 12 speed, without the spacer the chain line is around 45mm now (center of the frame to middle of the 2 chainring). Before it was 47mm with the 2mm spacer.
I think the water come from that big opening where the cable comes out. I have now removed that piece an went fully integrated in the stem. We have some rain storm here, so water ingress is always an issue. I will keep an eye on it an see if water stopped going in.
Wouldn’t the other issue be with the smaller facing size be a potential for “Jacking” out the bonded sleeve when tightening BB? Very interesting how this isn’t a standard dimension. Nice job with the detail explanations on all locations.
Thanks for this high quality content! Love it!
Thank you so much.
Another great video thanks. Can I ask your advice for how to smooth the inside of a steel 31.6 seat tube? It’s very tight to get the dropper post to slide down - ended up needing grease which then leads to slipping issues.
Most shops will have a seatpost reamer. Great for removing burrs, rust and muck.
@@Mapdeccheers not heard of a seatpost reamer! Will look into that for my home workshop (i.e. the kitchen), or see if LBS has one. Thanks for all the videos - I learn a lot from you for my home mountain bike builds / maintenance.
Very professionnal!
Thank you for the clear jargon free explanations of these things yet again!
My BMC team machine was built by the bike shop (a chain store!) - do you have any tips on verifying that these steps were done correctly when they assembled it, without having to fully disassemble the bike?
We discussed this at length today and we have a video planned. Thanks for the idea.
I remember getting my Time ADHX and thinking, that's the first frame in years in which the axles go in and through without needing any sort of micro adjustment.
I'm pretty sure Thomson is really good at quality control; same with Chris King🤘🤘
I wasn’t complaining, you’ve only had it a couple of days so no worries.
Great video.!! Thanks for sharing :)
Great vid what’s your opinion on using normal grease rather than specific carbon grease for the headset etc?
Why would you put carbon grease in the headset? Genuine query for you. Does the manual for the frame or headset bung ask for it?
@@Mapdec there is a myth about using “normal” grease on raw carbon parts like the headset cups. ( although embedded in epoxy ) there are greases that exist that label themselves as “for carbon componentes” like the Massi grease. The urban myth is that certain greases will degrade the carbon.
Problem bikes direct from the factory are sent without any quality checks such as this thus the issues we all encounter!
Which brands do you think consistently have the best QC? Besides Time and Look, of course 😉
even they are not always perfect. I think the best question to ask is what dealers do good QC? Argon18, Pivot, Rocky Mountain, Trek are probably among the most consistently ok. Although I think Trek are up there because of the training they give dealers.
@@FreekaPista I saw that. it would make an interesting podcast. I blame the wheels...
Its a shame Trek include gimmicks like the isospeed. IMO, no amount of QC and customer service can make the inevitable hassle of those worthwhile.
@@joegiro4433 BB90, anyone?? Rgr
Merci!
Thank you 🙏
Ride wrap only lasts one year , though . Hard to get it totally bubble free . Older bicycles need "made to order" which I have to make with a signwriter friend's assistance .
What I see lot is Carbon Fork Flatmounts being scewed for a plethora of reasons. Never seen it with Steel Forks.
Ive been riding for 8yrs and ive changed 3 inner tubes and can index my gears, so I know what im talking about.....
I've concluded that the bike industry is 20% Taiwan/Chinese factory, 80%Marketing buzzwords and BS sprinkled with 21%import tax.
My Giant Revolt Adv Pro E-Tap came out the box with its wheels out of true and shifter bent....I think the consumers expectations are clouded by the 80% weather it be a Pinerello or a Halfords bike😏😉
Good work on the inner tubes. Such wisdom in this post.
@@Mapdec 😄I'm downplaying my ability and experience...I fitted some pedals too, with grease on the threads. Feel free to take as your next video 😉👍
20:05 What grease are you using? I just got the Mobil XHP 222, but I don't think I will use it. That grease smell strong (and I park my bike inside). I'm using the Finish Line premium grease which is ok, but I would like something more water resistant.
For the BB? The red one? This is an assembly grease rather than a bearing grease. In this case it was Maxima Assembly Grease
Paul have you tried contacting Specialized about the facing of the bottom bracket?
I don’t have a line of contact for them.
The tarmac SL8 Expert comes fitted with a SRAM dub bottom bracket fitted as standard be interested to find out what dimension Specialized faced the frame to.
Nice video again. I wish I had of those tools. I‘m pretty sure my bikes are nowhere near perfectly faced 😊 Thanks for the great content
Thanks for watching!
Canyon has a consistently garbage qc for a brand that doesn't have bike shops to take care of their bikes haha
Yep, it is about time we had more of them on the channel.
There is good reason to buy from and support your local bike shop!
This worries me. I have ordered a new 105 level Merida carbon road bike, due In October. Its coming from a big chain supplier in Australia who sell lots of low-mid bikes. I guess I'm going to have to talk to them in advance and make my expectations they check these things.
RE: SRAM bottom bracket in an Specialized SL8 frame. If they're not facing the bottom bracket correctly for the diameter of the bearing housing shouldn't Specialized be doing a recall on all their bikes sold with SRAM bottom brackets?
Yep.
It would be interesting to find out if pro team mechanics do all this on race bikes.
Oh god yes. To the nth degree.
So all the extra work getting the frame into industry tolerances will cost the customer how much extra?
guess that depends how bad it is, or how old it is. Fresh out the box with lots of problems, we would just return it. A couple of minor problems we would fix. Most big problems are discovered once the bike has been ridden though
Please open a training centre in the USA
🥰 better get the UK one open first
If this level of extra check was done at the manufacturer and took this time the costs would go up by another 20%
Sadly very correct.
hmm I learned alot. Maybe help fix my brother's Garneau headset that keeps coming loose
nice
How much time did you spend on prepping the S-works to be as ready as a Time right out of the box?
about 90 mins
18:43 and everyone in europe and north america took that personally
What's the reason not to use the white lithium grease?
Clogs, separates, dries out, attracts dirt.
@@Mapdec bugger, I use it for everything.. 😞
I've worked in QA for aboot 20 years now... I can garuntee, the inspectors are doing thier bit.... an then when a problem is found, there's a manager or director saying 'naaaaah let it go it'll be fine'............
Have you done QA on bikes? I would love to speak to someone that does.
@@Mapdec nope. Alu foundry industry. But, yeah thats a great idea. With the silly cost of bikes nowerdays I reckon a lot of people would! I doubt the big bike companies would let it happen though :'D
We should seriously bring these jobs to the manufacturer. Or charge them for it.
Sadly they are a brick wall to the issues they cause.
I cannot wait for cc's comments..........................
🥱
Out of curiosity - why do you find the all purpose white grease disgusting?
Because it clogs, dries out, collects dirt and separates.
Why is white lithium grease not ideal?
Clogs, dries out, separates and collects dirt.
I always love your work, but it's INSANE that Dogmas and S-Works frames need these kind of work. Literally insane. I wish people stopped paying for overpriced bullshit like this. For the prices of these bikes they better be mechanically 99.999999% perfect otherwise just buy directly from chinese factories for 1/5 of the price. For the same if not better quality control. Ridiculous.
Totally agree, well almost. I’m not totally on board with the direct from China thing.
@@Mapdec It's Hambini's fault!!
I'm exaggerating a bit from frustration, my preferred option has always been my local bike shop just for the community. But it's getting harder and harder to support the manufacturers..
Perversely, all this does is raise my doubts about my local bike mechanics and my bike's safety.
Ah, Cannondale on a thumbnail. Coincidence?
Actually, just what we had to hand, the thumbnail with the SL8 was out of focus.
Shame you didn't have a Look to hand. I wonder why 😂
@@abedfo88 waiting for stock.
Me, pounding in every crankset I've owned with a mallet: 🦍🔨
Well, I now know what brand I'm not buying.
Unfortunately, even premium frames like the Dogma can have poor quality control.
Don't use sram, use shimano, problem solved ^^
Just a different set of problems.
Gazz .. your thining.
Or you just buy a Time :)
I would trust an S Works Tarmac straight out the factory without touching it.
Good luck with that. I haven’t seen a good one yet.
See cofidis didn't like their tour look bikes too heavy !!!! New bikes are poor quality control for the high price
It’s an interesting one. Worthy of a podcast. Frame for frame there is little in it. But Cofidis have few sponsors of trick bits to bring the weight down. The stock Corima wheels for example.
Just a shame the frame has no more warranty.
Oh dear. You can join the clueless club too. There is another channel out there just for you.
Every time i watch one of these videos there are so many laughable points raised and solutions found and most of them are designed to extract the maximum parts and labour time out of every customer. Unfortunately most people are ignorant of the fine details and because this guy delivers his discourse in a confident way with an upper class register he fools most of the people all of the time. Hambini is another one that dazzles with technical speak but his execution on video is also laughable in so many instances.
Specifications are specifications. If you have superior solutions, please publish them and share your knowladge.
I wonder how many warranties this guy voids lol
Probably best if you get back into your armchair, if you don't have the skills you can't comment. You can choose if you like, a worthless warranty on frame that creaks, or a professional willing to fix it. When I say professional, I mean someone with practise and skill, as well as insurance, reputation and accountability. Do you realise that for the customers I serve, it is easier for them to contact me, than it is for the brands of bicycle they buy. It is also their own choice and most often riders come to us after their dealers and brands refuse to help, or can't help. What a stupid comment.
There's definitely at least one tool in your armoury.
Hilarious that he's got his facing tool in his thumbnail too.
@@abedfo88 your point?
Why is there issue with anyone about what he does with the frame. Clearly the owner of the frame has given Paul permission. Secondly the frame set replacement would take months and still may have issues. Clearly Paul is showing us flaws in frames that we didn’t know about so look at it as being educational.Paul this is great build and thank you for sharing your experiences as always a great UA-cam channel and in person he’s great guy also.
i could use a good ream job