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The Coffin of Andy and Leyley and Lazy Shock Content
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- Опубліковано 18 сер 2024
- Shock Value is dead. It died a horrible death after being run over by a sarcastic comedian with no filter and then beaten in an alley by a crappy Unreal 2 developer. It is survived by its children, Politically Incorrect and Unwoke, who did not attend the funeral because they thought it sounded quote "a bit gay."
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00:00 - Disclaimer
00:55 - Introduction
06:48 - The Coffin of Andy and Leyley
24:20 - Analysis
31:11 - Frank Murdoch - Loser With A Gun
33:09 - All Edge and No Point
37:51 - Vanilla Soccer Moms Pretending To Be Edgy
45:03 - Credits
#postal #thecoffinofandyandleyley #hatred
The actual plot twist for me was the fact that Andrew may not be as normal as I thought he'd be
The kind of abuse we see Andrew put through would mess with anyone's head
agreed@@LilianOrchard
@@LilianOrchardtrue
The kind of abuse Andy went through would fuck around with anybody’s head lmao
Who, especially with trauma, is normal?
andy saying “Would you tie your hair up in a ponytail for me” was actually the scariest thing to come out of this entire game. fucking kill me
real, also nice hello charlotte pfp
fr omg💀💀 (also Hello charlotte pfp)
If only we had more scenes like that, but God forbid this game's writer uses subtlety.
As he said when he was younger, she straight up burrowed her way into every aspect of his life, even subtly changing his preferences and making her an object of his desire, absolutely sick and I feel so bad for the dude 😭
@@RushWheeler "I know writers who use subtext. They are all cowards"
The "over my dead body!" part of this video recently popped into my head so here's a fun(?) fact: Ashley would not be able to get pregnant even if she tried because a starved body doesn't have enough energy to build a proper uterine lining. It's actually kind of weird to me that she would even suggest that, because they were stuck in the apartment long enough for her to stop getting a period, but I guess that's just because the dev probably didn't research that beforehand.
(Source: me, a former anorexic and period-haver)
Well I didn't know that either, so thanks for such an educational comment
I hope you're doing better, girl
proud of you for that "former"
that makes sense but i never thought of that!
I hope you are doing well. Great job overcoming that problem!
as someone who suffered from that kind of abuse and manipulation, I only got out of it when I was the one realizing that they were not good for me, and Andrew never got that "realization" because he was stuck with Ashley since they were kids, so he never got to know what is like to be without Ashley. At my mind the abuser was someone who needed help, and I needed to help them getting what they wanted, kinda like Andrew was stuck taking care of Ashley. Even with outside help I still did'nt believed my friends and just wanted to help, Andrew needs to realize for himself that Ashley is a bitch. Anyway still not the best portray of that kind of situation lol.
Finally someone else who recognizes the abuse. Good take, thanks!
@@LilianOrchard Okay but... are we really just letting him off the hook for participating in murder?? I feel like regardless of how deep in the manipulation you are, there has to be a line where your conscience and body just won't let you. Somewhere between torturing a little girl and _eating someone._
@annacastro2855 The story puts their relationship in the forefront and uses their crimes as a vector to highlight Ashley's abuse, so playing whataboutisms like this is just missing the point.
@Lily_Orchard
Yeah. Imo, I liked Asmon stream for his narration and the shear frequency of manipulative technique being used.
@@himesilvaDude, people have been manipulated in real life to literally off themselves. Manipulation is literal brainwashing a person to think differently for the abusers benefit. He did all of that because he was brainwashed into thinking it was the only way to survive and to feed his sister. She guilt trips him into taking care of her so of course he'll want to keep her fed.
“Would you tie your hair up in a ponytail for me” was easily the most unsettling thing this whole game and it gave me chills. I actually felt bad for Andrew up until that point. (I still do but after that I just pity him)
I believe that this should’ve been a tragedy instead of horror (it’s too boring to be scary.) At least with a tragedy you’ll see the main characters die and get closure from it
What the tying up your hair in a ponytail thing mean?
@@toasty404yt That Andrew wanted the girl to look like Ashley.
@@HaHaHaHolowence 🤮
I was just about to get this on Steam. Saved me $8.00. Anyone want to save me more money and tell if 'Your Turn to Die - Death Game by Majority' is also shit, or is that one legit?
@kode-man23 can’t really comment on whether or not it’s ONLY “shock horror”, but I find the characters in YTTD neat and the concept is kinda fun. Definitely better than whatever was going on in this game
I haven't seen live footage of someone's suicide, but I did see a boy at my summer camp impale his foot on a picket.
It really isn't entertaining at all watching another person be injured and writhe in pain.
I wonder if people thinking movie gore is equal to real injuries is correlated to people thinking violent videogames make people more violent.
If they saw someone actually dying, I think they'd realize than no amount of Postal could make someone actually go through with murder unless they had a strong reason for it already.
I’ve injured myself bad enough often enough to know injuries are super disturbing irl. I’ve cut off finger nails, given myself 2nd degree burns that got infected, torn my foot open on a protruding nail, had really deep cuts that needed stitches. They’re not fun once you come face to face with them for real.
I’m kind of thankful that I only had to look as deep as Internet Archive for the footage. If there’s an angle which actually shows him falling to the ground, I’d be staying awake a lot later tonight.
No fucking kidding, we may be pretty awful people at times, but I think there is enough of God's light in us to prevent the worst of it. Shock entertainment is just whelps being whelps
As someone who has seen people ending it no amount of violent games could prepare you to see someones life get snuffed out like that. I've played video games for over 8 years, and no amount of violence and hate could actually come close to seeing the real thing.
I'm in a nursing highschool in europe, and trust me nothing in videogames compares to real life gore. Even it's a 1:1 to one copy nothing will recreate the feeling you get when a patient tells you in gruesome detail how they got the injury.
To paraphrase a bad website, when you're shocking all the time, the only truly shocking thing left is wholesome normalcy.
Tbh this legit just made me realize the best part of Berserk.
Even with all the taboo stuff it actually takes seriously, the little wholesome moments with the characters and seeing Guts, one of the most tragic characters, smile are just made that much better. The doom and gloom with the dangling carrot of Guts getting happiness kept me invested and more willing to endure the disturbing elements… if this makes any sense.
Basically a spark of hope in the darkness kinda vibe…
this might have been why Undertale did so well
@@NuclearDuckie02 yeah, and just like how a movie thats non-stop action or non-stop jokes can get grating so can non-stop shock value. It's like eating a meal where it's nothing but sour: no sweet or savory, no textural contrasts, just a big bowl of lemon pulp. It gets boring after awhile and you need some contrast like adding wholesomeness in with the shock value, adding calm bits to the action, or adding something with emotional weight in between all the jokes.
When thinking about how shock value has fallen, my mind goes to the movie Funny Games. It's a filmed sold as a torture porn about a family being held hostage by two home invaders, but the twist is that there's barely any torture in the movie. There's nearly no violence or gore shown on screen, no nudity, the villains are so cartoonishly evil it's borderline boring, and when the big moments happen, they linger on the actual shock the characters are feeling long enough to make you feel uncomfortable. It's a movie designed to make you feel dirty about watching movies about watching people being tortured. There are literally moments where the villain turns to the camera and calls you the viewer a sick fuck for watching this. That's how you actually do shock value, not by going "oh they might fuck" for 4 hours.
I love funny games. Michael Haneke especially stated he wanted violence to be unconsumable. That he disliked violence and therefore decided to make it like this. Its designed as an Anti-Horror film. Nothing about it is supposed to be fun. And it really succeeds at that. The time where the shot lingers for what feels like minutes on the victims just grieving and breaking is borderline unbearable. Ironically its more horrifying than most "real" horror films.
Funny Games is one of my favorite films because when I initially watched it I was the exact target audience, an edge lord trying to watch the worst of the worst whenever I could. I hated it at the time because I felt talked down to but years later I realize it was just holding a mirror up to me and asking “Is this really what you want to spend your time watching?”, and for that the film is very personal and special to me
Any one see the Vacancy movie. With its bonus feature featuring snuff films that were filmed almost realistically? God that was a find after watching the movie..
but then the game doesnt really do that for 4 hours lol, its really not that involved in the story
@@FruitJesus i never said they weren't goofy. What I meant was they didn't have any depth in terms of why they were doing what they were doing. The only explanation is because movies like these have characters who do this. The one time have give any kind of back sotry to them, the guy says it was a lie immediately after. And when they leave the movie for a good 30 minutes, it becomes really boring and aimless because most of these movies make their villains the most interesting part.
Honestly, it feels like the developer had leaned more into the protagonists being left to starve in quarantine and/or seeing a demonic ritual occur, it might've actually been able to hit the horror notes it claims to be aiming for. Add in more focus on the outright neglect inflicted by the parents, and definitely expand on the tidbit of their mother's age in relation to theirs that was teased, and you definitely have a story more horrifying than what's presented.
I'd say blending up your own parents and eating them is pretty scary but that's just me
The true horror of the game is not the starving or the demonic ritual, those are elements that merely support the narrative and help reinforce the core point of it, which is the toxic co-dependency, taboo sexual desires, repressed feelings and total disregard for their lives of those who don't fit into the ambitions that each sibling has in regards to the other. The demonic ritual only seems like an excuse to introduce the visions to the future, which allows the main characters to predict the many outcomes that their relationship can take if they go down a certain path... Either they fully indulge in the messed up dynamic they have and finally go to bed together for more than just sleeping, or they kill each other to get rid of all the tension and differences that they keep dealing with when they try to move forward in life together.
The only reason why people consider this to not be terrifying it's because they don't care about the characters, reducing them to a projection of an incest fetish that we owe to social media and cancel culture... If instead of approaching this game with the mentality that it's about incest, they did it with the mentality that it's a horror story about two mentally deranged siblings (or just went in completely blind), the narrative would hit way harder, specially because the incest doesn't becomes a thing until the second episode, which takes place after Andrew and Ashley are no longer starving, and feel more comfortable with each other, but now must face their neglectful parents and the fact that there's someone out there who wants them dead.
@@cristalido3640 honestly, it still doesn’t really work. Especially when every horror moment is offset by ‘quirky’ writing and the same comedic instrumental playing. The only time it got close was with the scenes in Andrew’s subconscious near the end of Chapter 2 (it’s genuinely great, it gives a glimpse into their past and shows how even before, their relationship was actively destroying their lives, yet even in that, that same destruction reinforced their relationship.) But even then, it failed to maintain this momentum immediately after and therefore didn’t work for me. I’ve read several other works, albeit in different mediums, that discuss this subject and its consequences better (Specifically the recovery, trauma, and guilt associated). I feel if it weren’t for specific writing choices this game would be able to delve into the topic more. Their strong suit is definitely in depicting their dynamic (not a fan of quips but it works well for their characters) but aside from that, I feel it fails to deliver.
As someone much smarter than me has said, you don’t get brownie points for including sensitive topics, you have to actually deliver.
(Also side note: the flashbacks seen through Andrew’s subconscious conflict with the latter half of your point. Their thoughts/feelings existed even before the events of Ch. 2)
@@cristalido3640 the problem with this game isnt the incest or the caniblisim . Its problem is that the dev sucked at story telling and being scary or unsetelling. You say people dont care about the characters, the game gave us no reason to. The only reason you would care about them is 1- you find them atractive 2- you want to be one of them. So yea, no. The game sucks ass cuz its not a good horor game
@@cristalido3640mf I've seen you fight for this game on 2 different videos, like bro it's not thay srs💀💀
Fun fact: Postal 2 had a *HUGE* following in Poland in the 2010's, mainly thanks to the polish dubbing.
I pretty sure it is popular in post-soviet in general. Many folk still bring up it here.
You can have a strong stomach and still find something utterly reprehensible. I don't puke at gore, but I don't go around the internet parading that I wish there was more gore or fetishizing literal serial killers. I feel bad for the families of the victims who have to deal with these fuck shit idiots who think murderers are sexy.
"The main fundamental difference between a serial killer and a genocidal dictator is an army of yes-men" Word.
Makes sense. A lot of the worst war criminals were either murderers, deviants, or criminals before getting put into a position of power. Oskar Dirlewanger for example was so bad even the SS thought he was too violent and psychopathic, and he got started as a sexually deviant psychopath before he joined the Nazis, the SS recruited a ton from prisons, and a bunch of other dictators have wholesale enlisted convicted criminals into their armies and/or police force.
"What are you doing, step bro with fewer steps?" is a genius line on many levels.
Fewer steps
@@LilianOrchard Damn. How'd I miss that.
If I jump down the stairs that’s fewer steps to die
I did not care for The Coffin of Andy and Leyley, it incests upon itself.
How dare you be funnier than me on my own video
@@LilianOrchard I've honestly been making that joke for a while on other videos and places and you're the first person to actually tell me it's funny lol
You have made my day
guess you could say that this joke is taboo.
@@JohnnyJohnJohnsonits probably because we get the reference and its original. So yeah...its funny.
As absurd Ashley sounds to many people, I actually dated a girl when I was about 18 for a year, and god... Bad parenting can fuck people up real bad (abusive father and not caring mother). We broke up after a year because of that.
Edit: before anyone asks, NO she wasn't that kind of crazy, but my point stands
Yeah sadly for as cartoonish and asburd as she is, my own sister is three times worse
I hate that the two main characters have the exact same names as my sister and her boyfriend. They are NOT related by the way
Oh that must be a nightmare
Show them this video! It'd be funny!
Oh naur 💀
My condolences to the two of them T-T
Ohhhhh...
Thank you for the vocabulary lesson, I legit thought trauma bonding was just bonding over a shared traumatic event.
Wait it's not?
@@marseillejohfr
it’s like a strengthened bond that an abuser and an abuse survivor can have with eachother. when someone abuses you you can feel more bonded to them than before in a twisted way just because of how our brains work, and vice versa
@@LongfurbyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyOh dang really? I thought trauma bonding was when an abuser made you feel trauma and then comforted you after that trauma in an attempt to make you form a "bond" with them
yeah, i loved the game myself but i do sort of wish people would stop explaining it away as “it’s horror! it’s supposed to be shocking!” and i even kind of wish it hadn’t been marketed as horror to begin with.
it has a creepy setting and spooky elements, but the emphasis for me (as a survivor, at least, so obviously their relationship stuck out to me) was how disturbing their dynamic is and how their parents clearly fucked the twins up royally. it should have been labeled a psychological thriller, if anything, but to me it comes off as more of a ‘case study on abuse featuring demons and dark humor’.
all that being said, nemlei did a very good job with showcasing a truly toxic relationship, in which both parties are unhealthily reliant on each other and simultaneously despise each other. very well done. i don’t even mind the incest myself, because it’s very much framed as a consequence of their relationship. ashley and andrew are so messed up that there is literally NO boundary between siblings, friends, or lovers, which is super common in abusive households.
You don't have to censor words like that on UA-cam, just a friendly tip
@@LilianOrchard oh thank you! i always get worried about that lol, i’ve been comment flagged out the wazoo everywhere else😭
I remember people got mad at me for saying the game isn't horror, just mildly disturbing. The only "horror" in that game is the incest
so well said. i didnt go into this game expecting a horror game but more of a psychological thriller and i indeed was content with what the game had to offer. (albeit ashley got so annoying throughout the game but the subtlety of andrew's fucked up-ness is what made me go through the mess.)
43:30-43:38
"Incest coded"? "Sibling coded"
What codes??? This was just BEING THE THING!
This is basically the argument about movie ratings but with imoutos. For context, the movie Dunkirk was apparently criticized for being a PG-13 movie about WW2. Because the consensus at the time was that any war movie worth making had to be R-rated, to show dismembered limbs, pools of blood and sailor cussing. Saving Private Ryan was basically the standard. But after the movie came out, it was praised to high heaven, along with me and my sister watching it for the intensity. It wasn't as gory as Saving Private Ryan, but that's not what made it terrifying. It was the sound editing, the lack of dialogue, the atmosphere, the desperation, the drone of a Stuka, the putter of a Spitfire after getting shot, the sudden explosion in the hull of a ship as it drowns hundreds of British soldiers. And as a certain theoretical physicist said while drunk, "Turns out you don't need to swear. You can hurt someone's feelings just as well without them."
AND ANOTHER THING...
I don't know if anyone cared to remember, but you know that mission No Russian from Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2? That was in 2009, and it was controversial for the fact that it gave the player the ability to play the role of a terrorist in a Russian Airport and start WW3. You know, debates about violent video games, blah blah blah. Anyhow, 14 years later, they rebooted the franchise and made a new timeline. They redid No Russian in Modern Warfare III ('23) and it was a disappointment. You play as a passenger framed as a suicide bomber with no agency, and rather than cause WW3, or even the in-world version of the Ukraine War, evidence of the attack is scrubbed and war is averted. Why? Part of it is because the people that originally made the No Russian decision, from the executives to the programmers, are no longer in Activision. And all you're left with is spineless, art-numb moneymen who only see video games as the fertile ground for a quasi-legal casino. So they can't have anything too controversial that'll scare the parents. Nevermind the fact that many of the parents are the gamers of yesteryear, who grew up, got jobs, married, have kids, and spend their free time thinking about the good ol' days when CoD was good.
TLDR: The people who made TCA&L are no different in artistic pursuit than the suits in a AAA games corporation. They're not in it for the art. They're not even in it to shock people. They're just playing the Capitalism game. And considering how they got you to buy their turd, all I can say is GG.
your part about those types of people who claims about being into edgy story, but are actually into rather sanitized stuff, being a cause for why stories have been getting blander over the years, has finally put to words as to the issues I was having in a lot of media as of late.
“Like a potter head got really into Black Butler”
Thank you for an absolutely perfect description
What is black butler?
@@Tuna-gu9unIt's a manga and anime, quite a classic
@@klamacz47 Yeah wanted to include that too but the scenes in there are really weird and just fuel that gross fantasy
Ah, so a perfect description then
The girl literally looks like my sisters old Total Drama OC. So you were exactly spot on in her description.😂
15:40 when you said this line I instinctively raised my finger to start skipping, like it was an actual ad. Forget the fight or flight response, you triggered my "skip ad" response
"It's just "what are you doing, Step-Bro" with less steps."
That one made me spill my coffee. Incredible line.
This is a problem that I have with extreme horror and splatterpunk. They literally do not try at all, the majority are waste of a good concept and their fans are obsessed elitists that think that it is the true essence of the horror genre. It like seeing people praising a romance movie for being just a continuous horribly acted sex scene for the entire runtime.
I just love how as soon as I read your last sentence, my brain *automatically* jumped to Fifty Shaded because of how fucking poorly it was written.
I watched ManlyBadassHero play this. Every time a cringey or lazy line was said, I took a shot.
What fucking dimension am I in
oh god please get to a hospital
If you're still alive to type this, you're probably the honorary president of Czechia by now
Friend of mine coined stories like these as "a pornography with knives". Heavy sexual undertone despite how fucked up it is (sometimes literally) with a killer off to the side making a bloody mess.
I don't think that pornography is known for exploring taboo relationships, repressed sexual feelings manifested in an unhealthy co-dependency, childhood neglect or possesiveness... Usually, "porn" involves surface level narratives that only aim to satiate your lust for revenge, violence or sex.
@@cristalido3640 which seems to be the right description for the game
@@cristalido3640 Sounds like this game to me, since the brunt of it really *is* just a surface level narrative surrounding Ashley *really* wanting to fuck her brother
I feel like it’s probably a damning sentiment on this game, that the single thing that surprised me about it throughout this entire video was Ginger’s art at the end. Love to see it.
The incest part wasn't a shock. It was hinted from the very start but it still rightfully churns my stomach.
💀
Another example of shock not being scarieness is the analog horor series "the painter"
The series was just
Date and time
Corps found with painting
Disturbing deskription of body
Scary painting
And that was fine but when the creator got critesised for doing the same thing over and over he just started making it more disturbing to make it more shocking
plus the horse and cory getting backlash but that can count for the disturbing body description.
I do agree with what you're saying. I think a problem with shock value media is that it can't really explore any of the ideas brings up because that would mean devoting a good chunk of the story to the "Shocking" element which means it wouldn't have that "gotcha" twist. It would be like if in Doctor who they kept the Daleks really vague and then near the end went "ha I bet you didn't think these guys were actually SPACE NAZIS!"
Going from Lily's description of the game, I would have thought it was absurdist/lolrandom-comedy instead of shock horror
That probably would have been 30x better than the game actually is
the coffin of badrew and midmid
That's the laziest play on words ever. 10/10
Tbh the coffin of Blandy and LeyLame sounds a bit better
I get people roast me
I had never heard of this game before but I'm so fascinated by the response it got. Despite having some really fucked up subject matter I kept a straight face throughout your whole retelling bar some good laughs and that one line from Andrew where he asks his gf to put her hair in a ponytail.
It goes to show how horror as a genre is actually really hard to pull off meaningfully. You can easily startle audiences with jumpscares or gross them out by having gore or incest but to truelly make someone uncomfortable? You have to put in work to make the subject meaningful and recognisable. I'm honestly struggling to to think of media branded as "horror" that has genuinely left an impact. I think some select episodes of Black Mirror with stories about real societal vices did (and even that the emphasis is on some) but other than that? Only non-fictional documentaries about true crime actually hit, usually because of that banality of evil you talked about.
Yeah, for the longest time I thought I just didnt like horror untill I realized that most horror I encountered up to this point just wasn't very good lol.
But then I listened to TMA and was like huh, horror can be good.
@@7OwlsWithALaptop I just hate gore too much to get into most horror. And if it's not gore it'll usually be just suspense and a jump scare or two. Stuff like the skeleton key just put me on edge for a payoff that wasn't worth the extended anxiety.
I can get into TMA and scary games though. I don't know why games don't bother me as much as movies do. Maybe it's because the gore is simulated, or because there usually isn't as much gore unless you lose?
@@untitled-gv3qp also proll that in most video videogames yoiu can look away or otherwise react, while movies you ust have to watch and the gore scenes are usually very drawn out
What does it mean when Andrew asks his girlfriend to put up her ponytail?
@@toasty404yt Basically it's supposed to be shocking because it shows that he's trying to get his GF to look more like his sister. It's a sign that he's turning just as weird and creepy as his sister.
The "Would you put your hair up in a ponytail for me?" line JUST clicked. oh my god.
With the things coming out that we know now, really changes rhe tone of the video.
What do you mean?
@user-ol4dl9ks2o In a recent video, I was forced to come out with the fact that when I was a teenager, my sister blackmailed and sexually abused me for a year.
@Lily_Orchard I hope that you can heal, and I'm sorry you were forced to come out about that. Sending peace your way my friend.
This reminds me of a kid in highschool I knew who, when he wasn’t bragging about his long jump skills (but he would jump over people so it’s edgy), would dead pan look at you and ask, in vivid detail, if you wanted to be violently murdered and mutilated. We all just kind of ignored him or gave him an indifferent “cool story bro”.
That in turn reminded me of something I think Neil deGrasse Tyson said about the flat earth movement. Before the internet these people existed and we used to just ignore them or treat them as the village crazy person; not someone whose dangerous to the the community but someone you didn’t want to interact with for very long. But with the internet these people can talk to each other and build a following around their shared ideas. In their new echo chamber these people convince each other that they’ve uncovered some great secret that “good and proper society” doesn’t want to face or admit; but reality is most people are indifferent or only mildly turned off by whatever issue they have decided to “champion”.
HE JUMPED OVER PEOPLE AHLKSHLSKAHLKAH I know it's supposed to be edgy but it's so funny 'cause i just imagine, like, a cartoony spider-man kangaroo casually hopping over people during recess and everyone just accepts that as a daily occurence
ok yea I think turning to the shock factor to garner attention really shows that they need support or validation. Maybe therapy or compassionate education. I mean, i've been there, where thinking something shocking or taboo will be able to rattle the world. But I've learned that it actually indicates a turbulent mind or isolated mental state.
This all reminds me of a Cracked article from years ago talking about all the edgelord comedians complaining about how they can't make rape jokes anymore. It turns out what turns people off isn't rape-related humor in itself, but using rape as a punchline in the name of being edgy for the sake of being edgy with no real wit behind it.
Coffin of Andy and LeyLey feels like a Wattpad or AO3 story written by an edgy teen and I honestly think anyone who finds this game disturbing has to be very young. Tbh the only game that's ever genuinely disturbed me is Saya no Uta.
Weirdly enough I was thinking about that game during this video
Yeah, it kinda gave me the feeling that the people calling it “the best game of the year/one of a kind” just didn’t spend much time on Ao3.
As someone who was an edgy teen who wrote poorly written smut in eighth grade for Wattpad (all those many moons ago), I have been so desensitized to taboo content over the years. It's gotten to the point where going on Wattpad for any lewd content seemed dull and drab, and that's what introduced me to AO3. Andy and LeyLey is quite literally the 2014 Wattpad smut of "horror" games. In all actuality, I've read AO3 stories with a lot of similar points as Andy and LeyLey and found them more disturbing than this game could fathom dreaming of ever being.
moral of the story? Parents need to keep a better fucking eye on their kid's internet search history because shit like this game at developing ages can royally fuck up a child's perception of what's just "hush hush" and what's actually morally wrong.
"Made a sexy thirst trap drama show of cannibal serial killers." I thought you meant Hazbin Hotel for a second but that's amazon..
I was actually thinking about God Bless America a few days ago. I really enjoyed that movie when I watched it as a teenager who was still comprehending themes and nuanced story telling, and I feel like I'll still enjoy it now with more context about it then it just being a black comedy about killing people. Thanks Lilly, I don't know where my pea sized brain would be without you.
Honestly when I first heard about Andy and Leyley it really just sounded like it was trying too hard. Having seen your summary of it I can now say that I was wrong, the game doesn't even try at all.
Trying to hard would be interesting
It may not be as shocking as people say or live up to what everyone says about it, but I got into it blind before it became mainstream-ish and just like it for what it is cause the story is something I can’t look away from. Frankly, I’m also waiting for Andrew to kill Ashley.
Also there are actually two instances of cannibalism. The one you mentioned and in chapter 2 when they turn their parents’ corpses into soup and eat it. Yea still not that many, but still worth mentioning.
12:44 HELP not the American Psycho audio 😂
Fittingly enough that movie is a perfect example of dark humor used well, since the whole point is that the main character thinks that he's some master serial killer edgelord when he's actually just a total loser who can't handle any ounce of scorn or criticism. And of course people missed the point and are calling him an inspiration. It's hilariously pathetic.
I'm reminded of a quote by Red from Overly sarcastic productions:
"it's not a bad thing to put bad things in fiction, and not every story with bad things in it needs a "don't try this at home" disclaimer on the title card. Stories don't need to be realistic, or healthy, or emotionally well-adjusted, or good examples for real-world behavior - they just need to be interesting."
The problem with TCOAAL wasn't the fact that it had incest. it was the fact that it didn't do anything with it. it didnt explore any of the trauma bonding, or the mental states those 2 were in. It just said "look, Incest, isn't that shocking" and expected that to make up for a lack of compelling story or good gameplay.
Creators could've leaned into psychological horror where Andrew worked to escape his deranged sister. Possibly even realize how neglectful their parents were and be forced into a situation where he uses them as meat shields to escape Ashley before eventually killing her too
That would require actual writing skills and an in-depth understanding of psychology.
But that's not how Andrew sees it, he is pretty much ok with murder and has same psychopathic mind. Even if I think more would be better fleshed out, what you propose goes against what he is in design and I do think him being passive and in many ways for it is more interesting subject.
@mikhaelgribkov4117 what I was thinking, they're both screwed in the head and it's everyone else whose in danger by them. Made me remember why I don't like villian protags or "anti heroes" lot of the time they're just villains the writer calls a hero for the sake of it just so they can avoid consequences
I think it's more interesting that rather than escape her Andrew still let's her tag along because she is the only person he can talk to
There is a scene in one route where Andrew explains that he can't leave her. No matter how much he wants to leave, he's already too codependent on her. And the same route foreshadows that he'll try to kill her in a future chapter
my main critism towards this game is that it would be tenfolds better if it actually took its lead situation (incest) seriously. ashley and andrew blatantly groping eachother, and incestous jokes towards eachother, ends up making the breaking point of the game less of a serious issue that you should care about and more of a joke.
edit: these interactions are literally written in a comedic light which basically guides the viewer into taking the situation as a joke until things actually do get heated. also, looking back at what I said, ashley not taking the situation seriously is in character for her though.
I'm honestly looking forward to see whether chapter 3 fixes this problem or not. probably not, considering the whole 'nemlei doxxing' situation.
tdlr: this game has a problem with tone control
41:19 funnily enough, understanding that consumers' stated desires can be different from their real desires is part of a concept that is taught in marketing classes (my source: i took one such class this semester.)
I find it. VERY disturbing that those people who say there’s not enough gore in the Dahmer series, we get it you got big boy pants and you stank like them too, but please don’t disrespect those who were actually fallen victim to it.
And also the degenerates that were into this game solely cause of the characters, touch grads
> horror game about "taboo topics"
> ask the creator if it's a cannibalism game or an incest game
> creator is confused
> pulls up diagram showing what is cannibalism and what is incest
> they laugh and say "it's a good game sir"
> buy it
> it's incest
they took fatherless and motherless behavior too literally
TW: Dark subject materials and making it interesting in writing (last comment I PROMISE)
In a lot of fiction and writing analysis classes I had back in the day, we were taught to analyze how the authors portray an overlooked perspective in a new way (literally called "making new" or "making strange".) Cuz you're absolutely right! Evil is banal and boring, so to honestly portray it, you often have to remind ppl of how awful it is often thru reasserting the overlooked ppl's inner humanity.
It's why a lot of Toni Morrison's novels hit so many Black women so hard -- the very terrible trauma of anti-Blackness in the US was portrayed as an active choice rather than a natural inevitability. This what ppl say when they mean "decolonize your writing" -- watch out for your the BS you were taught and take some time for some actual introspection when discussing dark subjects , esp in why they deserve be villified in the first place. You become better ppl that way
Actually I remember an interesting (re: really stupid) sentiment while the owl house was airing and how they wanted the series to be aged up... just so the characters can say "die" and "kill" and say swears.
Like you get the idea that Belos is a colonialist and doesn't even view the witches as people from the sheer callousness of Belos' character and how he is fully willing to torment and damn them but just because they very clearly wanted Belos to say the very obvious part out loud just so they can feel like grown ups if only for that one hypothetical clip they would have posted everywhere as a sign of "mature storytelling"
"missed the point so hard you impaled yourself on a rock" gonna be using this from now lmao
It’s weird how considering how much back lash it supposedly got, I’ve only seen positive things surrounding this game. Fanart, comments, gameplay, reviews. This is the first video I’ve seen actually criticizing it.
The backlash is mostly people getting snarky on Twitter, which the fanbase took extremely personally
@@LilianOrchard well to be fair a lot of that snark takes the form of people accusing others of being incest supporters so i wouldn't blame them for taking it personally
@wontonschannel Well that's kinda what happens when you loudly and proudly declare how much you love the incest game.
"'what are you doing step-bro' with fewer steps"
ok that was clever
this game made me feel like I went back to my middle years of listening to Creepypasta stories (Like Jeff the Killer, Jane the Killer, Slenderman, etc...) on UA-cam.
*Dances to caramelldansen over Ashley's corpse*
Oh, good times.
That's the vibe I got from the first look and demo lmao
Except, it's a creepypasta fanfic made by a teen who's still exploring their sexuality and ended up dumping it all over the damn thing fro the lulz
Ashley got huge 2014 creepypasta oc vibe doesn't she lol
@@gloomydxlllegit multiple times i've thought that fanart of this game was 'jane the killer' fanart, like a new wave of creepypasta fans just hopped on board
Honestly of all people, I didn't expect YOU to review this game
I do as the Patrons command
Question, at the end why is Ashley laying down in The Family Guy Fall Position? Did Andrew finally leave “game end” his abuser or did she get hit by a back of Nickels?
So that's what they needed their mom's credit card for.
“You’re supposed to say you love me too”
“I do! Now fuck off!”
Okay that got me 😂
24:27 Was the jab at the art style really necessary? It's quite nice. It's very clean and easy to read, the poses and compositions are competent and decently dynamic, and the sparse color use makes the images pop. It's an exceedingly fitting art style for the game's tone and themes. I couldn't think of an art style that could suit the game better than this one.
A bad game does not a bad art style make. The art direction for this game is great. If anything, it's too good for what the game's worth
It wasn't a jab, it was a neutral description
TW: Racism, cannabilism
Also, thanks for pointing out the racism and melodramatic creepiness of the Dah/mer crowd cuz a) he was essentially the boogie man for a lot of Black parents back in the day (and esp for Black LGBT+ folks) and b) calling this ppl fools for their fetish brings me some peace so genuinely thanks for that. There's just a whole history of ppl in US (and abroad) using Black and brown bodies for various terrifying means and the fact that some folks on Tikitiy Tok just tee-hee'd or thirsted after it drove me off the app for a bit. (You can make a fanclub for a terrible person but not take their victims seriously, eh world?). They deserve to be revealed as the absolute losers they are.
So yeah, thanks for that y'all. Made my night :)
The Dahmer series was just hard to get through in general because so much focus was placed onto how much he was getting off to these murders- can we (collective) be really surprised that there were groupies jacking it to this series when _that_ was the tone it decided to set?
I was wondering what the racism part was about. Then again I probably should have expected that when most of the time black people are only conditionally involved in various media.
lol
Bro what?
@@bieciebro everyone is conditionally involved, it's called a contract
I think the main problem isn't that Nemlei refuses to write Ashley with the same subtlety as Andrew; rather, this premise just wasn't meant to go on this long. There's only a chapter 2 and 3 because the game blew up in popularity. All of Ashley's cards have been on the table since the first flashback, because the first flashback was the turning point of the game. And even though it's now just "the first flashback," Nemlei can't exactly put it back in the box, so Ashley has nowhere to go but to keep escalating into absurdity.
I went into this game completely blind (heard the jokes about incest but thought that was just the community memeing), and it seems that it was for the better. I didnt have any expectations at all and enjoyed the fucked up story the game was telling.
the point about bud dwyer is the realest thing ever, one of my first shock videos ive ever seen, still haunts me, hollywood gore is just blood
The only reason I am still looking forward for the upcoming episodes is Andrew tbh. I have been in a similar situation as him with an ex "best" friend of mine and it made me realize alot about myself. I know it will never happen but part of me wishes Andrew to realize that too lmao, it is getting a bit unsettling seeing how he might feel the same way towards his sister. But I do like the decay ending so far.
I do agree that I wish we had seen more from Ashley but if they look deeper some might even pity Ashley because of how neglected she was since birth with the mom leaving it to Andrew. Overall, I can see why some people don't like this game. But as for people like me, I will have my judgement once all episodes are released.
I didn’t know this game existed until I saw a pic of Ashley last week and listening to you describe the “story”, I thought that these two characters need some mental health treatment.
I mean, that's the point of the story, they do need to, but they don't because of they have no desire to do so, even if it destroys them.
One thing ive seen in the horror community is the romanticism of abuse becoming WAAAAY to common. Horror games and content ofc will have many disturbing topics. Incest canibalism ext can be one of them, but if its executed incorrectly, thats when its an issue. Lots of people seem to get angry when you say this point, and this opinion that the execution of abuse (incest in this case) isnt good in this game. Its becoming too common to see people making romantism of abuse DISGUISED as horror game/content. Maybe you can argue this wasnt the intent of this game specificly, but like i said at the end of the day, you can make a disturbing horror content, but if you dont execute it right, you got a problem.
I actually really like this game and this is the first negative review I've genuinely enjoyed, well done
I haven't played it but even with this review the game looks pretty fun.
It's so strange. Through the review, I was basically nodding my head 80% of the time, thinking "oh yeah", "totally", "true", except at the parts when Lily calls the game dull or boring.
I guess it ultimately comes down to different taste?
it's gotta be a taste thing here, I personally don't have a single bad word to say about TCAL but its obvious why others do@@gaiusjuliuscaesar8450
@@gaiusjuliuscaesar8450 maybe "the game is bad because shallow" vs "the game is good because entertaining characters"
For real. This video makes plenty of excellent points i can't bring myself to disagree with, but i still went through that game like it was fucking candy, and you can bet i'll be back for more when chapter 3 drops.
I'm now wondering about my own media literacy though, because as fun as it is, the game undermines its own premise from beginning to end, and i appear to have the sensibilities of a grade schooler when it comes to this kind of writing. I thought i was more observant than average when it comes to this, but now i'm not so sure.
Obviously, i can like what i like, i don't need anybody's permission, but i want to write a story of my own, so i'm not happy to hear i'm more narratively challenged than i was planning on being. This is a very horny, very edgy game, and the fact that i am even remotely equipped to tune into the frequency it's on has convinced me that i need to get normaler, and that i should seek the help of a third therapist.
The art style of Andy and Leyley is cool but the game is pretty f%cked up
As a teen who has read a bunch of Itchio visual novels, I can recognize why some people play games like the Coffin of Andy and Leyley throughout its entirety even though they don't like it.
Shock media is comparable to Disney remakes in the sense that they rely upon the lack of critical thinking from the audience to realize that there is no substance once you take their marketing appeal (edginess, nostalgia), I have read dozens of visual novels that contained bad writing, shallow characters and anime tropes for the sake of considering myself "mature" enough to handle their "dark" topics, and even though most of them were trash I read them until the end under the pretense of the Sunken Cost fallacy. It has took me until this year to realize the value of abandoning stories that aren't worth my time and effort.
As a teen I had felt that it was my obligation to give every story I encountered an opportunity, a chance to leave a good impression upon, but as I grew up I have began to appreciate the value of recognizing and filtering the media that I find enjoyable and discard the media that I don't. I am in favor of people being more selective with the media they consume in order to avoid wasting their time engaging in stories that leave them empty-handed
I am regularly worried that I might be one of those maladjusted sadsacks due to all the messed up stuff I write on a regular basis. Either as part of a personal writing project or for the tabletop games I run for my friends. But looking at a game like this, i think I am actually far more well adjusted than I thought.
Because for all the disturbing content I include in my projects, I understand that shocking content should not take up the entirety of the narrative. You get numb to it after a point if you do. A "shocking moment" should be sparsely included, if at all. Have happy, feel good moments for the most part until you hit your audience with gut punch for an intense roller coaster of emotions.
And when you do have a shocking moment in a narrative, let the moment be a result of the actions of your antagonists. So you can get an emotional payoff for when they get their teeth kicked in for causing the shocking moment. And there is a difference between a villain and a villain protagonist. If you've got a villain protagonist committing regular atrocities, you get these types of games. And we know how history will look back on titles such as these.
ah, i get ya. As a maladjusted sadsack myself, who likes to sneak in disturbing content into my works as a way to reconcile being in a bad mental/emotional state, I've also worried about it becoming superficial.
Then I realized I wasn't great at writing shocking moments,, if everything was shocking... so I thought, okay, what if we pull a REVERSE-horror and set it out to be shocking and disturbing and depressing and gory but then it slowly just gets more wholesome and humanizing? And the post-Lord-of-the-Flies level realization where the weight of your actions is real, but also means something because the characters should mean something to you, and not like overinflated (like a below-adequate horror flick)??
Good point about how history looks at villain protagonists if they're portrayed in a flattering light :// and how it's only the antagonists who get their 'teeth kicked in' but usually not the villain protagonists. That's definitely something I've been wrangling with too.
What's honestly shocking to me is that the incest route is supposedly the 'happy' route/ending so far. In decay route, when the player supposedly thinks that it's a good thing Andrew is going to kill Ashley and finally get rid of the toxicity in his life, he's more broken and depressed than ever. Meanwhile in.....*that* vision, he's confident and bold. Even with choices that only enables the incest ending, it results in the siblings being at their happiest. Yeah, it's fucked up, but I think decay route also tells us one thing that burial route does not. Andrew just can't cut off the source of the problem, even if he knows Ashley fucked him up. It's been over 20+ years with her, and vise versa for her side too. Psychological, children get use to a certain routine/way of life after living it for the majority of their lives, which is what the Graves siblings have been doing. Just being with each other. They are both beyond the point of fixing and accepted being with each other is what makes them happy and sane, even if it's toxic and fucked up. The difference is that Andrew has shame, while Ashley doesn't
Another thing I'll point out about Andrew is yeah, he's down bad for his sister. And yeah, he hates himself for it. But when the only woman in your life that you've had a 'stable' relationship with has been your sister, biology takes over...
It's only really "happy" on the surface. People can seem happy in abusive relationships, especially when one of them is an abuser getting what they want. Speaking from experience, it's not really "happiness" when you just become a stepford smiler.
Furthermore, the idea that he couldn't just get rid of Ashley and recover is extremely bleak. Again speaking from experience, abuse doesn't permanently damage or taint you. This idea that recovery is impossible past a certain point just flat out isn't real.
shoutout to ginger snap for the phenomenal art of dead ashley
The funny bit is, even though it does seem a03 inspired
I've seen better fanfiction on AO3. This doesn't just feel like AO3 this feels like kinktober which are explicitly designed with the purpose of being relatively bland this this feels like it would be tagged on A03 with the tag porn without plot
Or maybe it wouldn't. There is no barrier to entry on a03
And now there's no barrier to entry on anything. Whoopee
Well, it's not authors first game so maybe?
Eh, saying that there's better AO3 fanfics isn't a high bar. There's plenty of talented writers and great fics. Lots of published authors also write fanfics.
The folgers coffee ad reference is INSANITY
I remember when my sister was obsessed with the Dahmer series and begged me to watch it with her. I watched one episode and wasn't able to watch anymore. I wondered why she liked it so much. Your videos a pretty good explanation
So, this is basically "I'm 14 and this is deep" - the game
Maybe it's the inner Andrew supporter in me but I think when Andrew says "They'll take you away from me!!" I always thought that was him trying to convince Ashley to bury whatsherface but the interpretation of him a little obsessed with Ashley more then we thought Is a little creepy that the "normal" character is more twisted before the game's time even happened
Andrew had responsibility for Ashley forced into him by his mother, so the damage is already starting to be done.
I just hope everything ends up better then how it started but it's an RPG maker horror game so I wouldn't put the most faith in them becoming better people
I thought the game would be like cooking companions and I was SO wrong...
Monster prom is more edgey then this game and its a meme party dating sim.
Glad to see we didnt have to relive 2023 to fet the video out...unless
Is it really that edgy? It's more casually comedic with sometimes real whiplash depending on the route.
@@mikhaelgribkov4117 oh it's a great comedy it's more when you start looking at the secret routes
i've got friends who will defend this game to their dying breath and would probably block me if i told them the things in here so i'm just really happy to see someone saying all these things i've been thinking and expand on them way better than i ever could
THIS OMG
Istg this is also like the only UA-cam video that actually shows the game’s flaws… everyone else who made a review sings its praises and it makes me want to puke
This reminds me of what John Waters talked about bad taste in media:
"To me, bad taste is what entertainment is all about. If someone vomits watching one of my films, it's like getting a standing ovation. But one must remember that there is such a thing as good bad taste and bad bad taste. it's easy to disgust someone; I could make a ninety-minute film of people getting their limbs hacked off, but this would only be bad bad taste and not very stylish or original. To understand bad taste one must have very good taste. Good bad taste can be creatively nauseating but must, at the same time, appeal to the especially twisted sense of humor, which is anything but universal."
Given that his shlock filled sleeze fests are actually clever critiques about 70's white cishet dominated society from working class LGTBQ+ lens, this man knows what he talks about. And it's something these games lack. Because they are ultimately made out of someone who'se promoting status quo trying to be edgy but who doesn't want to subvert the current order in any way.
No matter what anyone says, I feel these two are incredibly written. Really excited to see future games from this developer.
shit's about to get fuckyyyyy
I heavily disagree with the take that Ashley isn't realistic or she's "cartoonishly evil". I'm thankful you haven't met people like her yourself but speaking from experience there's definitely people out there exactly like her.
I started watching gameplay of this game and couldn't get past part one because of how much she reminded me of someone in my past.
No there really isn't. Where there are are mentally ill people with far more going on who have hurt you and so therefore you have built up this cartoonish idea of them in your head. An understandable coping mechanism, mind, but not something that is indicative of reality.
I've not got clean hands here. My own sister is quite similar to Ashley, but I remain consciously aware of the fact that there's more going on in her head than pure malice. I have to consistently remind myself of that.
Honestly, the game has potential, but it seems like it's confused between being a fun, clearly exaggerated depiction of taboo subjects and a down-to-earth, serious depiction of such subjects. So it never goes fully in either direction and seems like it's condoning the incestuous relationship.
It's not condoning it, it's romanticizing it. The entire purpose of it is for the shallow enjoyment of the audience.
It kinda bugs me that "eating out of the garbage" is on the list of stuff Ashley did; that's a move of desperation, and stands in contrast to the rest of the list. But it's too far down and not close enough to the end of said list to be like the "arson, murder, and jaywalking" trope, at least as I read it.
If eating out of the garbage can’t be on the list for that reason then cannibalism would have to be taken off the list too. So it’s gotta stay on the list.
@@baydiaci mean, eating the cultist was out of desperation, eating their parents in ep2 was decidedly not
ive done that too
Young justice (the grim dark DC cartoon about lovable youngsters, who don't deserve the bad things happening to them) just made me sad
Honestly, the issue with it is that it tries to be "52" comic with no clear end point or main leads in mind, which makes quite boring at times with no point in mind.
Crazy how some fetish sprinkled over a slop can make the crowds either weep or scream from excitement for a simple reason of them being THAT boring and predictable
Saying this as the same boring person, who watched the critique content for a shock factor and OPPOSITION, rather than for an interesting commentary and discovering a new field of view on 1 THING
Honestly, this video gave me some strength to reflect, so mucho kudos for that❤
Edgy media fans when you show them one depressing soviet movie.
Did you... read my mind? because this is EXACTLY what I've been thinking of since i played this game
Really liking this kinda format
Also i love how "eating out of the garbage" is a valid reason to be murdered in your sleep lmao
Incredibly underated video, I could not find any content that citizised this game. I feel calling this "Game" any form of art is shameless at best.
I would care more but elden ring DLC was announced and something happened in my brain and now Im playing elden ring again
Also fun fact did you know The coffin of andy and leyley costs $10, that is 16% of elden ring, so that price tag should give me an experience worth 16% of elden ring. I don't think I need to spell out the rest...
I'm not sure "An experience worth 16% of Elden Ring" is a good metric, because that accurately describes dying of bowel cancer.
@@LilianOrchard Sorry, did I miss something in the joke? Sorry if I'm dumb.
No, I was just being cheeky. I'm on record multiple times that FromSoft makes the worst action games on the market today.
I've never been able to put my irrational hatred of this game into words and I think you perfectly encapsulated all I could have said (but can't because I'm a big softy). The art's nice though. I hope the artist behind this does choose to make something less... this in the future.
tbf, given the subject matter, I would say your hatred is plenty rational.
I wish more people spoke out about it being mid
i read the disclaimer and the only things that creeped me out was the infanticide and incest. i dont know why those 2 are on the same level for me
bro im the same, i think it also isnt helped by the fact i have 3 brothers all of which are younger than me lol
yeah I find it legit so weird when stuff like this is treated as a joke or when people are like "oh lol you consider that gory I wanted it to be even worse" like 💀 idk it just feels like stuff like this _shouldn't_ be taken lightly and _shouldn't_ be seen as a joke??? but ok lol
edit: also can someone explain the ponytail thing I literally do not get it 😭
Ashley wears her hair in a ponytail
@@felicityb93 OH 💀 welp thanks for letting me know-
To be fair, I didn't get it at first, until I thought what it can mean and it hit me like when Mark from Invincible said "Sometimes". Honestly, I would put this and Invincible comic in "Cynical as hell black comedy made by people who are competent, but who really stuck themselves in the place of cynicism". And I can respect that, because Invincible show is so fake and boring in how "it improves the story" that I started appreciating cynical nature of original way more.
I completely understand this, though I did enjoy looking at the watchthrough.
This game would heavily benefit a longer run time to give more explanation and depth so I can actually care about these characters, as for the most part we're just thrown right in with absolutely no reasons
This type of shock horror isnt even new. Mogeko Castle did the same incestuous omg murder and blood thing over a decade ago, AND the visuals are better
Mogeko castle is still such a weird feverdream that I cannot believe actually happened.