PINNED UPDATE: To clarify, the primary point in this video is that keeping your hands close and using an inside-to-outside swing path is the most efficient approach for a two-handed backhand when setting up for the shot. This swing path is shorter and allows for better movement and adjustment in case of slight misjudgments of the ball. I am not implying that the out-to-out backhand, with arms extended-popularized by Agassi, Djokovic and many other world-class players-cannot be highly effective. However, it is not the most efficient or optimized stroke pattern, as it inhibits movement and adaptability. if you are a recreational player with a 2HBH and you are struggling and looking for a potential solution, try the technique used by Navarro and Zverev.
It must be a great feeling to teach tennis, teachers are the only way can do any good. Some teachers devote their life to a student. I am Borgs age, I just learned that Borgs heart only beat 3o times a minute, no wonder Borg wore opponents down, but with today's players, Borg couldnt hit the ball with his long looping backhand. They changed string patterns in rackets to stop servers like Sampras from constantly blowing balls by players, but Sampras played terrible on clay. Players hit the ball too hard for injuries, I dont know if they an change the game for that. I think some of the top players are only want to win the majors, so to have less stress n their bodies. I love the way todays top players run around their backhand. The reason fans dont like Djokovic & Sinner so much is that they ONLY stand at the baseline & pound the ball, but that takes perfect timing to hit the ball only inches above the net. Many people dont know this, players need to hit their forehand, when they SOMETIMES hit the ball, they sometimes have the racket head, always straight up, just brushing up on the ball doesnt give power. I watch pros in slow motion that when they hit the ball, they'll SOMETIMES turn the top of their racket head slightly forward when hitting the ball, aiming the ball a little higher over the net, so to give them power, they do the same on short half volleys. The top 3 tennis players ever, Federer, Djokovic, & Nadal, in their lifetime, only won 52% of the points they played, when they needed to, it was usually break points on games & sets, was usually made the difference in winning. I have noticed that the top players rarely get into long rallies, unless they both feel really great that day, sometimes I believe before a match, that some players tell each other to get the match over quickly. One guy was telling that we probably wont see any men players over 25 years old win a major tournament. I think that a girl should be taught the drop shot as her major shot, because women run slower to the ball. Alcarez is incredible on clay at the French Open, you'd think he'd get into long rallies, but after 2 or 3 points, he gets the points over with. He's the same way at Wimbledon. Alcarex drop shots his opponent to the net, then he puts up beautiful rainbow overheads over his opponent.
This is funny as hell!!! A UA-camr with 1k subscribers criticizing a 21 year old world class 4 time grand slam winner’s backhand, and have the balls (no pun intended) to compare him to a player who has ZERO grand slams. Every successful player has their own style which works for them.
@@GeneralRock114, just because Zverev has no Grandslams doesn't mean the point he's making about his hands being close to his body relating to movement and balance isn't valid. I think he's making very valid points about the two handed backhand.
Djokovic has a straight arm take back vs zverev’s bent arm take back and his backhand is one of the best in history. Alcatraz’s issue is not because the racket is far from his body but rather his take back is very compact, perhaps too compact that he needs to exert too much effort to generate power. Djokovic and sinner take their back hand all the way back and this allows them to more efficiently use leverage from hips and torso to generate power
Djokovic encounters the same issue on his "setup" backhand. Watch how often he has to slightly lunges into the shot during contact. I'm not suggesting his backhand is not world class, only that the out to out technique is not the most efficient way to approach a 2HBH for players who don't have the opportunity to hone their techniques for decades and tens of thousands of hours.
@@TK-Tennis With much respect there's something missing in your Djokovic's backhand analysis. If so (and apart of the hundreds of hours invested in practice) 2 things: 1. Djokovic has proven he's had the most consistent and winnershot backhand in 20 years. If there would have been a flaw in that shot, for as tiny as it be, it certainly wouldn't have let him perform at the utmost. 2. Given that consistency and winning shots speak tons of how outstandingly Djokovic's backhand has been, it can't be all. He also has excelled consistently for 20 years in every kind of intricate passing shot by that side. For the above reasons, there must be something you haven't technically figured out in the 2 backhanded stroke aside from comparing Alcaraz and Zverev.
It’s only that they extend them too early Zverev and Navarro both extend their arms straight they just only do it the second before they start their swing .
I have always found that something was a bit off with Alcaraz technique. I usually described it as “too physical” without being able to tell exactly why. This analysis cleared that up. Once he prepares with the extended arms and stops the movement, he has wasted the kinetic energy that lead there and has to restart, but now he can only use shoulder rotation. This requires more effort because he starts with zero angular speed and has to rotate a lot of mass far away from the pivot point (shoulder). What’s worse, his body almost falls to the left because the extended arms have rotated to the right (conservation of linear and angular momentum). He can get away with it because he’s strong and young, but the gesture is not as efficient as it could be and is likely to cause shoulder injury. Note that on the one hand backhand, it is almost mandatory for the arm to complete the extension right before the impact, not much earlier.
Yes this is what I was thinking when watching and to me it seems like it doesn't allow him to properly load his legs and put his weight through the ball.
Good point, and that would likely come organically if he adapted his backswing by keeping his hands close during the preparation phase. Keeping your hands close has enormous benefits in terms of improved movement and positioning.
@@TK-Tenniswhy doesn’t he just be more compact with his backhand like Zverev? Surely by now his team has seen his weaknesses. Isn’t this an easy part to fix?
@@NeillGonz he could be using a flatter grip allows him to get away with it, I use the continental grip for my one hand backhand and swing low to high using the edge of the racquet for the pronation, it gives effortless pace and is good on difficult low balls to dig them all out of the ground. I use that for both the slice backhand and normal flat backhand... and that's what I use for the normal to low balls. .
Yeah. Agree with the assignment of Carlos backhand. My son has the same issue with his backhand. Glad you pointed this out , now we can try and work on it.
👍It's very common for young players to fall into this habit, since many top pros utilize this style. Obviously it can work, but it's less efficient and effective than the in-to-out technique. Have him watch Zverev, Navarro, or Hingis in the past.
Greatly said, though I think many people will say that there is nothing wrong with this technique as djokovic who arguably has the greatest backhand of all time uses this. But the point is that as recreational players we are not djokovic or alcaraz, it's like how you're not supposed to copy fed's volleys, how you're always taught to never swing on the volley but you see top players go for seemingly impossible drive volleys all the time but we are not them. its like how for some people they can calculate large numbers in their head so they don't use a calculator, but for those who are unable to do it because it takes so much talent and practice, its much better to use a calculator. same thing applies here, just because djokovic is good with it, doens't mean we will be good with it. and what's said in the video is a great analysis of this, as recreational players, we are much better off trying to learn from zverev's forehand
it's like the fact that fed used a 340 raquet, and as recreational players trying to use a 340 raquet would kill our arms and ruin our game, but that doens't we're not saying that raquet is bad, it's just not the best idea for most players, same goes for the backhands here
Totally on point. I try to focus my content mostly towards recreational players and what they should versus shouldn't emulate from the pros. What Joker is able to do with 30+ years of training does not transfer to weekend warriors, while some things pros do can transfer more easily
Interesting. As great a player as Carlitos is, physics is still physics and applies to everyone. So he might improve his already excellent BH by optimizing the physics. Can you do a video on Holger Rune's Forehand? I think he might be doing something akin to this on that groundstroke.
That's right, biomechanics and kinetic energy transfer rules the day. Working on a video for Holger Rune, although I'm not sure there is much to criticize on his forehand. It is a bit mechanical and maybe not ideally fluid, but it's pretty darn elite nonetheless. His haphazard strategy and shot selection is the bigger issue.
Can you do an analysis on how Fritz' fh exploited Zverev's bh all year long? It's VERY unusual to have an "average good" player being the one guy to find a "weakness" on an almost universally-perceived "flawless" shot like Sasha's bh.
Yes thought the same. But he is aware. First noticed it in Paris. Beijing maybe. Earlier in the week he said this: “That’s a good eye!,” Alcaraz said to the reporter who spotted the change. “I am a player who makes changes without working on them. I didn’t speak to Juan Carlos or anyone else. I just started to feel comfortable doing it.
Even though he's refined his technique for years, both he and Sinner being young have shown the ability to adapt and change. Carlos made a big change to his serve last year and maybe he will make a change to his backhand as well 🤞
@TK-Tennis it's a good sign. Willing to change is the quality of the best. No surprise the results they have when they change things that don't work as they wish.
For me it also works much better with arms close to my body in the preparation phase. Though I dont think it is a mistake to have your arms stretched. Djokovic has also his arms stretched and his backhand is rock solid.
Djokovic has the same issue on his "setup" backhand where he loses balance when he slightly misjudges the ball, as did players like Agassi in the past. I'm suggesting it's a mistake for recreational players to copy this technique since they don't have endless hours to practice and hone their skills/positioning. I'm also suggesting Carlos would suffer fewer unforced errors on this wing if he optimized the initial portion of his swing 👋
@@TK-Tennis I agree with you! This year I started to relearn my backhand and I tested every arms position imaginable. Some trainers actually claim you have to have your arms stretched. I think you should use whatever feels the most comfortable for you. Having my arms close to my body feels like a one unit which gives me so much more confidence in my preparation. I feel very safe with my arms close to my body and I feel exposed with my arms stretched. I dont know maybe it is even mental. Generally I think you should not feel any strain and fully stretching your arms goes against this principle. I could not play like that with my arms stretched but if it works for some people I see no reason why they could not do that. Dont fix what isnt broken.
@@kkarx 👍Like you, I had to relearn it myself over the years. The arms away being a detriment is less noticeable the younger the player is due to better movement and faster arm/hand speed. That's right, don't fix whats not broken. But if players are struggling, the inside-out motion is more efficient due to it's shorter swing path and the benefits it provides in positioning/movement.
I did the same for decades-mimicking Agassi's backhand and making it work. That was until I started losing hand and racquet head speed, which left me often late on shots and high balls became a nightmare. It quickly became clear that the inside-out technique is far more efficient overall. A Courier-style grip and backhand is truly something to admire! 😉
Good point. Is this valid for the one handed BH as well? As a one hander I find it natural to begin with hands close on the takeback, something to do with the non-hitting hand on the racqust throat.
Yes 100%, but then there are also exceptional one-handed backhands (Think Gasquet) where players are fully extended with an out-to-out 1-hander as well. Keeping the hands close is "always" more efficient because the swing path is shorter and it also keeps the center of gravity closer which promotes better movement. With that said, I think the benefits of keeping your hands closer is a "little less" important because the 1-hander is a more fluid and agile shot to begin with.
Djokovic's doesn't look as "stiff" as Alcaraz so they are and must be different even so they're "outside -outside". Besides Djokovic's is considered much better 2 handed backhand than Zverev's.
Interesting video . I think the takeaway from this bideo is too not extent the arms straight too early . I have an issue with my backhand that i do not straighten my arms out at any point in my two handed backhand . I have been working with a coach on getting my arms straight on the takeback . The reference point being point the racket towards the back fence . I can hit some massive backhands now when i get my arms fully back which is fun and i'm hoping to keep improving .
That's a good point. The inside-out technique (forehand and backhand) done poorly can have a side effect where players "chicken arm" the shot when they position themselves too closely to the ball thereby preventing them from extending their arms into the shot. Another side effect is players will fail to extend their arms far enough back. These are both common side effects players need to be aware of. Great comment!
I am not sure how much Alcaraz will be able to change his technique moving forward since it is so ingrained. However, you make a very excellent and important point in that recreational players should try an emulate players with the best technique. For example, to play with strokes like Dimitrov and not try and copy Fabrice Santoro or even great talents and athletes such as Kyrgios because while it works for them, it wont work for you. 😆
You are probably right. It's a fairly significant change and without any real off-season it's essentially impossible to make dramatic changes to something they've been doing for their entire lives. That was exactly the point I was trying to make, that Rec players should try to emulate the most efficient and biomechanically friendly strokes.
To me, some facts of your analysis are not wrong and can apply to average players, however, the whole point of the BH comparison makes no sense... Every single player has a different style and therefore different biomechanics for every shot and movement of the game. The backhand takeback varies from player to player and the difference between an elite and an average shot relies after all on the power, precision and consistency. I would NOT say that Alcaraz's BH is not elite... Rewatch some of his highlights in very important matches and you will see how scary and how big this shot really is! If you can defeat Novak on BH to BH rallies, then it means your BH is pretty special! Moreover, if you take what you just pointed out on Carlitos' BH issues, that would mean that Djokovic's BH is problematic as well, because just like Carlos he doesn't hold his hands as close to his body when preparing the shot unlike Zverev, and he also tends to pivot earlier when seeing a ball coming to his BH, similar to Carlos in this video. Plus, Zverev is a huge guy, 6 feet 6 inches tall, Carlos is 6''2 top, so the fact that he brings his racket head so far up close to the back of his head on his BH prep is usually not recommended because this can slow you down when have fast balls coming. But hey, this all depends on what type game you're looking for (more offensive, to the net, defensive, baseline, etc.) and so many different styles out there! That's what makes the sport so interesting:)
Carlos’ backswing is reminiscent of Andy Roddick’s but Carlos has a better hand grip position. His arms are too stiff and straight to have the right level of control but even so, Carlosmhas one of the top backhands in the game.
No way! The internet is full of self-appointed technical experts telling us how all-time greats are "wrong". Carlos has his hands a similar distance from the body as Agassi - though stiffer setup, it's true - and that's good enough for me..
@@danguee1 I did not say wrong, I said less efficient and not the most effective mechanic to optimize movement/positioning. If you have 20+ years to practice you will make it work too, but as a recreational player if you want to make it a little bit easier on yourself then mimick players like Navarro and Zverev.
Alcaraz’s backhand is definitely top 10 in the world and perhaps even top 5. I think what TK-tennis is pointing out is that there is a delta between Carlitos’s top attributes (forehand, movement and variety) and his backhand. It is like comparing an A+ to an A. His backhand in my opinion is technically perfect, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t ways to make it better. Carlitos would probably be the first to tell you that.
@@tenniswithandy Very well stated. While I don't use scripts, maybe you can help me with the talking points 🙂. Although on the "setup backhand" in particular, I may not agree with the top 10 backhands in the world ;-)
While alcaraz does have some insufficiencies in his backhand, I don't think its because of the out/out. Djok also has his arms extended in the same way on the bounce. I rewatched slow mo of djok's just to be sure of this. Its more so he doesnt racket drop enough for natural acceleration and relies on more athleticism
Joker encounters the same issue on his "setup" backhand. I simply suggesting is slightly less efficient and not the most ideal technique and that Rec players should avoid emulating it.
I figured someone would mention that ;-). It's true, Sinner also has an out to out swing with the hands away from his body with arms extended, but for that matter there are dozens of pros who utilize this same technique. As world class fit athletes they have the hand and racquet speed and years of practice to develop this technique into world class backhands. My point is that it's not the most effective stroke mechanic and for Alcaraz specifically it's a liability. Great comment and thanks for tuning-in.
One other observation, is that Sinner does not setup in the same manner as Alcaraz. Sinner has one fluid swing where he takes the racquet back as the ball bounces and then smoothly but immediately takes his backswing and immediately transitions into his forward swing in one fluid motion. This allows Sinner to keep his movement more natural and not get stuck in place like what happens to Carlos.
@@TK-TennisIn my opinion, the reason Sinner can get away with it is because he allows the ball to come to him unlike Alcaraz who doesnt hold his load up as long which you suggested. What happens as a result is that it creates a hitch or what I call a snatch at the ball when his opponent hits a slightly slower shot central during a quick pace rally on quick courts
99.99% of coaches in all sports, not just tennis, are “below” the athletes they are coaching. They are good at teaching and coach fundamentals, not necessarily have the athleticism and such to play anywhere near the person they are coaching level
With exception to Novak, I've never seen anyone else hit a sliding open stance two-hander for a 100mph passing shot up the line. Seems a bit ridiculous to not include this backhand in the elite category.
That's true. I was only focused on his "setup" backhand to highlight its specific liability. I did have it in my notes to mention how this does not apply to his running/sliding backhand, because in those cases his backhand technique is different. I should have covered that aspect to highlight how in those cases his running prohibits him from taking the racquet back too early and therefore he stays in a more natural running position (hands close) and then his backswing and forward swing happen in one single motion. His running backhand is elite, his setup backhand not so much.
Gee, just watch backhand instructions from Rick Macci. What Carlos is doing is just a "next-gen" backhand, and you can see the same in Sinner, Tiafoe, Kyrgois, Rublev, Khachanov, and Agassi, who "created" it. It doesn't use gravity as much but instead uses a bigger lag created by the left hand pushing down. There are plenty of details on this on UA-cam.
I am not disagreeing with you. You are saying that once one starts their swing, one should start close to their body, then connect with straight arms, but Chris Evert doesnt keep the rackett close to the body, nor does Connors, or Alverez, the best 2 handers in the worldMy opinion. Once Alverez. Jimmy Connors., Chris Evert & me hits the ball, our arms are as straight as a board for maximum power, just like a baseball hitter. Djokovic dont make contact to hit his backhand with straight arms, so I think that Djokovic & others can hit very good with a one hand backhand like many one handers that hit close to their body. . Chris Evert hit with the straightest arms & wrists. A 2 hander with his arms bent a lot dont get much power. Watch Navarro & Zverev hit the ball with loose bending wrists, Connors, &especially Chris Evert swing with wrists that dont bend when they swing, thats why I think they are the best 2 handers. . Djokivic hits real high as head shots, has to have his wrists bent. Two handed top spinners dont hit with straight arms. If Borg was playing today, his long looping backhand wouldnt be fast enough against todays players. His is a video of Chris Evert that hits like Alverez with her arms extended out on the start of her backhand, notice that Martina backhand is very close to her body with little power.
As I think you alluded to, the biggest difference is the racquet head speed in todays game is vastly higher than it was in prior generations. Keeping the hands close and swinging in-to-out allows for a much more fluid swing with naturally faster swing speeds and therefore a more fluid motion to impart topspin. You can even simulate this by trying practice swings with a racquet using both techniques and you'll notice how much easier it is to whip the racquet head. With enough practice anyone can make the out-to-out swing work effectively, but I'm suggesting from it's simply easier and more efficient to follow Zverev and Navarro's technique.
@@TK-Tennis Martina is underrated and it seems crazy to say that. 9 slams finals and 5 slam victories but very few people talks about how great she was to live and win during the era of Serena, Venus, KIm and Justine and her BH was one of her big weapons - great mechanics = power, accuracy and consistency.
He made a fairly major adjustment to his service motion last year and it's a fairly major improvement. I do expect to do many many more of these style videos, thanks for watching
Dude, the arrogance of your assessment is the only takeaway from this “content”. One shot evaluations? Teaching amateurs from the flaws in an alien being from another planet? And you missed the only noticeable difference. Alcaraz - closed stance. Zverev - open stance. Del Potro and Fernando- both straight arm takeaways on their forehands. Probably the two biggest in history.
PINNED UPDATE: To clarify, the primary point in this video is that keeping your hands close and using an inside-to-outside swing path is the most efficient approach for a two-handed backhand when setting up for the shot. This swing path is shorter and allows for better movement and adjustment in case of slight misjudgments of the ball.
I am not implying that the out-to-out backhand, with arms extended-popularized by Agassi, Djokovic and many other world-class players-cannot be highly effective. However, it is not the most efficient or optimized stroke pattern, as it inhibits movement and adaptability.
if you are a recreational player with a 2HBH and you are struggling and looking for a potential solution, try the technique used by Navarro and Zverev.
It must be a great feeling to teach tennis, teachers are the only way can do any good. Some teachers devote their life to a student. I am Borgs age, I just learned that Borgs heart only beat 3o times a minute, no wonder Borg wore opponents down, but with today's players, Borg couldnt hit the ball with his long looping backhand. They changed string patterns in rackets to stop servers like Sampras from constantly blowing balls by players, but Sampras played terrible on clay. Players hit the ball too hard for injuries, I dont know if they an change the game for that. I think some of the top players are only want to win the majors, so to have less stress n their bodies. I love the way todays top players run around their backhand. The reason fans dont like Djokovic & Sinner so much is that they ONLY stand at the baseline & pound the ball, but that takes perfect timing to hit the ball only inches above the net. Many people dont know this, players need to hit their forehand, when they SOMETIMES hit the ball, they sometimes have the racket head, always straight up, just brushing up on the ball doesnt give power. I watch pros in slow motion that when they hit the ball, they'll SOMETIMES turn the top of their racket head slightly forward when hitting the ball, aiming the ball a little higher over the net, so to give them power, they do the same on short half volleys. The top 3 tennis players ever, Federer, Djokovic, & Nadal, in their lifetime, only won 52% of the points they played, when they needed to, it was usually break points on games & sets, was usually made the difference in winning. I have noticed that the top players rarely get into long rallies, unless they both feel really great that day, sometimes I believe before a match, that some players tell each other to get the match over quickly. One guy was telling that we probably wont see any men players over 25 years old win a major tournament. I think that a girl should be taught the drop shot as her major shot, because women run slower to the ball. Alcarez is incredible on clay at the French Open, you'd think he'd get into long rallies, but after 2 or 3 points, he gets the points over with. He's the same way at Wimbledon. Alcarex drop shots his opponent to the net, then he puts up beautiful rainbow overheads over his opponent.
This is funny as hell!!! A UA-camr with 1k subscribers criticizing a 21 year old world class 4 time grand slam winner’s backhand, and have the balls (no pun intended) to compare him to a player who has ZERO grand slams. Every successful player has their own style which works for them.
@generalrock114 I think because he knows for recreational players it’s harder to pull off the alcaraz style backhand
@@GeneralRock114, just because Zverev has no Grandslams doesn't mean the point he's making about his hands being close to his body relating to movement and balance isn't valid. I think he's making very valid points about the two handed backhand.
thanks, how about forehand take back then? should keep elbow straight or close to body which means curved elbow?
Djokovic has a straight arm take back vs zverev’s bent arm take back and his backhand is one of the best in history. Alcatraz’s issue is not because the racket is far from his body but rather his take back is very compact, perhaps too compact that he needs to exert too much effort to generate power. Djokovic and sinner take their back hand all the way back and this allows them to more efficiently use leverage from hips and torso to generate power
Djokovic encounters the same issue on his "setup" backhand. Watch how often he has to slightly lunges into the shot during contact. I'm not suggesting his backhand is not world class, only that the out to out technique is not the most efficient way to approach a 2HBH for players who don't have the opportunity to hone their techniques for decades and tens of thousands of hours.
@@TK-Tennis With much respect there's something missing in your Djokovic's backhand analysis. If so (and apart of the hundreds of hours invested in practice) 2 things:
1. Djokovic has proven he's had the most consistent and winnershot backhand in 20 years. If there would have been a flaw in that shot, for as tiny as it be, it certainly wouldn't have let him perform at the utmost.
2. Given that consistency and winning shots speak tons of how outstandingly Djokovic's backhand has been, it can't be all. He also has excelled consistently for 20 years in every kind of intricate passing shot by that side.
For the above reasons, there must be something you haven't technically figured out in the 2 backhanded stroke aside from comparing Alcaraz and Zverev.
so many pros do that straigh-arm takeback. it's hard to believe this is a fundamental problem.
It’s only that they extend them too early Zverev and Navarro both extend their arms straight they just only do it the second before they start their swing .
I have always found that something was a bit off with Alcaraz technique. I usually described it as “too physical” without being able to tell exactly why. This analysis cleared that up. Once he prepares with the extended arms and stops the movement, he has wasted the kinetic energy that lead there and has to restart, but now he can only use shoulder rotation.
This requires more effort because he starts with zero angular speed and has to rotate a lot of mass far away from the pivot point (shoulder). What’s worse, his body almost falls to the left because the extended arms have rotated to the right (conservation of linear and angular momentum).
He can get away with it because he’s strong and young, but the gesture is not as efficient as it could be and is likely to cause shoulder injury.
Note that on the one hand backhand, it is almost mandatory for the arm to complete the extension right before the impact, not much earlier.
Good analysis! The stop and go movement with arms extended is more abrupt and not as fluid as it could be.
Yes this is what I was thinking when watching and to me it seems like it doesn't allow him to properly load his legs and put his weight through the ball.
Good point, and that would likely come organically if he adapted his backswing by keeping his hands close during the preparation phase. Keeping your hands close has enormous benefits in terms of improved movement and positioning.
@@TK-Tenniswhy doesn’t he just be more compact with his backhand like Zverev? Surely by now his team has seen his weaknesses. Isn’t this an easy part to fix?
@@NeillGonz he could be using a flatter grip allows him to get away with it, I use the continental grip for my one hand backhand and swing low to high using the edge of the racquet for the pronation, it gives effortless pace and is good on difficult low balls to dig them all out of the ground. I use that for both the slice backhand and normal flat backhand... and that's what I use for the normal to low balls.
.
Nex gen v modern backhand.nothing wrong just a different technique
Super helpful thanks !!!
Yeah. Agree with the assignment of Carlos backhand. My son has the same issue with his backhand. Glad you pointed this out , now we can try and work on it.
👍It's very common for young players to fall into this habit, since many top pros utilize this style. Obviously it can work, but it's less efficient and effective than the in-to-out technique. Have him watch Zverev, Navarro, or Hingis in the past.
Greatly said, though I think many people will say that there is nothing wrong with this technique as djokovic who arguably has the greatest backhand of all time uses this. But the point is that as recreational players we are not djokovic or alcaraz, it's like how you're not supposed to copy fed's volleys, how you're always taught to never swing on the volley but you see top players go for seemingly impossible drive volleys all the time but we are not them. its like how for some people they can calculate large numbers in their head so they don't use a calculator, but for those who are unable to do it because it takes so much talent and practice, its much better to use a calculator. same thing applies here, just because djokovic is good with it, doens't mean we will be good with it. and what's said in the video is a great analysis of this, as recreational players, we are much better off trying to learn from zverev's forehand
it's like the fact that fed used a 340 raquet, and as recreational players trying to use a 340 raquet would kill our arms and ruin our game, but that doens't we're not saying that raquet is bad, it's just not the best idea for most players, same goes for the backhands here
Totally on point. I try to focus my content mostly towards recreational players and what they should versus shouldn't emulate from the pros. What Joker is able to do with 30+ years of training does not transfer to weekend warriors, while some things pros do can transfer more easily
Oscar Wegner has a great tip on the 2HBH….track the ball with you top or non-dominant hand as if you were going to catch it.
Interesting. As great a player as Carlitos is, physics is still physics and applies to everyone. So he might improve his already excellent BH by optimizing the physics.
Can you do a video on Holger Rune's Forehand? I think he might be doing something akin to this on that groundstroke.
That's right, biomechanics and kinetic energy transfer rules the day. Working on a video for Holger Rune, although I'm not sure there is much to criticize on his forehand. It is a bit mechanical and maybe not ideally fluid, but it's pretty darn elite nonetheless. His haphazard strategy and shot selection is the bigger issue.
@ Rune’s FH just looks a little weird to me. I look forward to your video analysis!
Excellent analysis
Can you do an analysis on how Fritz' fh exploited Zverev's bh all year long?
It's VERY unusual to have an "average good" player being the one guy to find a "weakness" on an almost universally-perceived "flawless" shot like Sasha's bh.
Yes thought the same. But he is aware. First noticed it in Paris. Beijing maybe. Earlier in the week he said this:
“That’s a good eye!,” Alcaraz said to the reporter who spotted the change. “I am a player who makes changes without working on them. I didn’t speak to Juan Carlos or anyone else. I just started to feel comfortable doing it.
Even though he's refined his technique for years, both he and Sinner being young have shown the ability to adapt and change. Carlos made a big change to his serve last year and maybe he will make a change to his backhand as well 🤞
@TK-Tennis it's a good sign. Willing to change is the quality of the best. No surprise the results they have when they change things that don't work as they wish.
Do you have an analysis of Sinner's backhand, forehand and dropshot? Would you say the backhand slice is currently a weakness for Sinner?
It’s called early preparation, nothing wrong with that at all…
Then you will love my upcoming video "Why preparing early is the biggest myth in tennis? ;-)
@@TK-Tennis hahah will wait for it 🙂
For me it also works much better with arms close to my body in the preparation phase. Though I dont think it is a mistake to have your arms stretched. Djokovic has also his arms stretched and his backhand is rock solid.
Djokovic has the same issue on his "setup" backhand where he loses balance when he slightly misjudges the ball, as did players like Agassi in the past. I'm suggesting it's a mistake for recreational players to copy this technique since they don't have endless hours to practice and hone their skills/positioning. I'm also suggesting Carlos would suffer fewer unforced errors on this wing if he optimized the initial portion of his swing 👋
@@TK-Tennis I agree with you! This year I started to relearn my backhand and I tested every arms position imaginable. Some trainers actually claim you have to have your arms stretched. I think you should use whatever feels the most comfortable for you. Having my arms close to my body feels like a one unit which gives me so much more confidence in my preparation. I feel very safe with my arms close to my body and I feel exposed with my arms stretched. I dont know maybe it is even mental.
Generally I think you should not feel any strain and fully stretching your arms goes against this principle. I could not play like that with my arms stretched but if it works for some people I see no reason why they could not do that. Dont fix what isnt broken.
@@kkarx 👍Like you, I had to relearn it myself over the years. The arms away being a detriment is less noticeable the younger the player is due to better movement and faster arm/hand speed. That's right, don't fix whats not broken. But if players are struggling, the inside-out motion is more efficient due to it's shorter swing path and the benefits it provides in positioning/movement.
Apart from the odd separation you point out, it makes it look more stiff and indeed it is.
Good analysis. It’s a bit like the skater rotation. The closer the arms the faster the rotation.
Amazing analogy, I wish I would have used that.
Excellent video. A whole series of these for the top players would do well.
Thanks. So many ideas, don't know where to start 👋
Sinner, Carlos, Fritz all do this. 😂
Yes true, but with critical variations where they don't suffer the same issue where it inhibits their movement
Cool video. I make the same mistake actually. Straight arms but also a f*ed up Courier-style grip.
I did the same for decades-mimicking Agassi's backhand and making it work. That was until I started losing hand and racquet head speed, which left me often late on shots and high balls became a nightmare. It quickly became clear that the inside-out technique is far more efficient overall. A Courier-style grip and backhand is truly something to admire! 😉
you'd have a stroke analyzing norrie's backhand
I may just need to do that to drive my point home, the video not having a stroke ;-)
Good point. Is this valid for the one handed BH as well? As a one hander I find it natural to begin with hands close on the takeback, something to do with the non-hitting hand on the racqust throat.
Yes 100%, but then there are also exceptional one-handed backhands (Think Gasquet) where players are fully extended with an out-to-out 1-hander as well. Keeping the hands close is "always" more efficient because the swing path is shorter and it also keeps the center of gravity closer which promotes better movement. With that said, I think the benefits of keeping your hands closer is a "little less" important because the 1-hander is a more fluid and agile shot to begin with.
Djokovic's doesn't look as "stiff" as Alcaraz so they are and must be different even so they're "outside -outside".
Besides Djokovic's is considered much better 2 handed backhand than Zverev's.
can you do analysis on Matteo Berrettini's backhand
Only if I can do his serve at the same time ;-)
Interesting video . I think the takeaway from this bideo is too not extent the arms straight too early . I have an issue with my backhand that i do not straighten my arms out at any point in my two handed backhand . I have been working with a coach on getting my arms straight on the takeback . The reference point being point the racket towards the back fence . I can hit some massive backhands now when i get my arms fully back which is fun and i'm hoping to keep improving .
That's a good point. The inside-out technique (forehand and backhand) done poorly can have a side effect where players "chicken arm" the shot when they position themselves too closely to the ball thereby preventing them from extending their arms into the shot. Another side effect is players will fail to extend their arms far enough back. These are both common side effects players need to be aware of. Great comment!
I am not sure how much Alcaraz will be able to change his technique moving forward since it is so ingrained. However, you make a very excellent and important point in that recreational players should try an emulate players with the best technique. For example, to play with strokes like Dimitrov and not try and copy Fabrice Santoro or even great talents and athletes such as Kyrgios because while it works for them, it wont work for you. 😆
You are probably right. It's a fairly significant change and without any real off-season it's essentially impossible to make dramatic changes to something they've been doing for their entire lives. That was exactly the point I was trying to make, that Rec players should try to emulate the most efficient and biomechanically friendly strokes.
The difference in this particular shot is also that Zverev play open stance which gives him more balance.
True, which also reinforces the point that movement is less inhibited with Zverev's stoke mechanics.
But the Alcaraz backhand works well when he hits open stance.
He is still young, and he will get better. Sinner is the complete package right now, but Alcaraz and Sinner will be the new Nadal and Djokovic.
To me, some facts of your analysis are not wrong and can apply to average players, however, the whole point of the BH comparison makes no sense... Every single player has a different style and therefore different biomechanics for every shot and movement of the game. The backhand takeback varies from player to player and the difference between an elite and an average shot relies after all on the power, precision and consistency. I would NOT say that Alcaraz's BH is not elite... Rewatch some of his highlights in very important matches and you will see how scary and how big this shot really is! If you can defeat Novak on BH to BH rallies, then it means your BH is pretty special!
Moreover, if you take what you just pointed out on Carlitos' BH issues, that would mean that Djokovic's BH is problematic as well, because just like Carlos he doesn't hold his hands as close to his body when preparing the shot unlike Zverev, and he also tends to pivot earlier when seeing a ball coming to his BH, similar to Carlos in this video. Plus, Zverev is a huge guy, 6 feet 6 inches tall, Carlos is 6''2 top, so the fact that he brings his racket head so far up close to the back of his head on his BH prep is usually not recommended because this can slow you down when have fast balls coming. But hey, this all depends on what type game you're looking for (more offensive, to the net, defensive, baseline, etc.) and so many different styles out there! That's what makes the sport so interesting:)
Carlos’ backswing is reminiscent of Andy Roddick’s but Carlos has a better hand grip position. His arms are too stiff and straight to have the right level of control but even so, Carlosmhas one of the top backhands in the game.
Ben Shelton as well 👍
Great video! It takes a lot of courage to criticize a stroke of one of the greats in our age. 😊
Speaking truth the greatness ;-)
No way! The internet is full of self-appointed technical experts telling us how all-time greats are "wrong". Carlos has his hands a similar distance from the body as Agassi - though stiffer setup, it's true - and that's good enough for me..
@@danguee1 I did not say wrong, I said less efficient and not the most effective mechanic to optimize movement/positioning. If you have 20+ years to practice you will make it work too, but as a recreational player if you want to make it a little bit easier on yourself then mimick players like Navarro and Zverev.
Alcaraz’s backhand is definitely top 10 in the world and perhaps even top 5. I think what TK-tennis is pointing out is that there is a delta between Carlitos’s top attributes (forehand, movement and variety) and his backhand. It is like comparing an A+ to an A. His backhand in my opinion is technically perfect, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t ways to make it better. Carlitos would probably be the first to tell you that.
@@tenniswithandy Very well stated. While I don't use scripts, maybe you can help me with the talking points 🙂. Although on the "setup backhand" in particular, I may not agree with the top 10 backhands in the world ;-)
While alcaraz does have some insufficiencies in his backhand, I don't think its because of the out/out. Djok also has his arms extended in the same way on the bounce. I rewatched slow mo of djok's just to be sure of this. Its more so he doesnt racket drop enough for natural acceleration and relies on more athleticism
Joker encounters the same issue on his "setup" backhand. I simply suggesting is slightly less efficient and not the most ideal technique and that Rec players should avoid emulating it.
but now compare with sinner's backhand and you will see that sinner also does this
I figured someone would mention that ;-). It's true, Sinner also has an out to out swing with the hands away from his body with arms extended, but for that matter there are dozens of pros who utilize this same technique. As world class fit athletes they have the hand and racquet speed and years of practice to develop this technique into world class backhands. My point is that it's not the most effective stroke mechanic and for Alcaraz specifically it's a liability. Great comment and thanks for tuning-in.
One other observation, is that Sinner does not setup in the same manner as Alcaraz. Sinner has one fluid swing where he takes the racquet back as the ball bounces and then smoothly but immediately takes his backswing and immediately transitions into his forward swing in one fluid motion. This allows Sinner to keep his movement more natural and not get stuck in place like what happens to Carlos.
@@TK-TennisIn my opinion, the reason Sinner can get away with it is because he allows the ball to come to him unlike Alcaraz who doesnt hold his load up as long which you suggested. What happens as a result is that it creates a hitch or what I call a snatch at the ball when his opponent hits a slightly slower shot central during a quick pace rally on quick courts
i think his weakness is more of forehand rather than backhand. His forehand is too wristy and sometimes very unstable
makes less errors of this side tho?
He's doing it so he can get his wrist flick, focusing on the snap vs. the roll.
Very similar to Roddick’s flaw
Carlos backhand is down the line with body behind the shot, zvrev is cross court falling back a bit
Even though I don't like it when people whose skills are below yours criticize you, what he said is true.
99.99% of coaches in all sports, not just tennis, are “below” the athletes they are coaching. They are good at teaching and coach fundamentals, not necessarily have the athleticism and such to play anywhere near the person they are coaching level
What is your ATP ranking? Are you better than Alcaras?
I also noticed this! Was kind of shocking to see this in such a big level match. Glad you made a video about it.
I struggle to take anyone’s analysis seriously when they say “Zerev”.
I struggle to take commenters seriously when they conflate tennis instruction with pronunciation proficiency ✌️
I wouldn´t mimick any of the two.
My backhand is one handed anyway.
2:22
I should have such flaws...
Isn't Cam Norrie the most extreme example of this?
That gull wing stroke needs to be in a category all it's own! 😜
With exception to Novak, I've never seen anyone else hit a sliding open stance two-hander for a 100mph passing shot up the line. Seems a bit ridiculous to not include this backhand in the elite category.
That's true. I was only focused on his "setup" backhand to highlight its specific liability. I did have it in my notes to mention how this does not apply to his running/sliding backhand, because in those cases his backhand technique is different. I should have covered that aspect to highlight how in those cases his running prohibits him from taking the racquet back too early and therefore he stays in a more natural running position (hands close) and then his backswing and forward swing happen in one single motion. His running backhand is elite, his setup backhand not so much.
Gee, just watch backhand instructions from Rick Macci. What Carlos is doing is just a "next-gen" backhand, and you can see the same in Sinner, Tiafoe, Kyrgois, Rublev, Khachanov, and Agassi, who "created" it. It doesn't use gravity as much but instead uses a bigger lag created by the left hand pushing down. There are plenty of details on this on UA-cam.
reminds me little bit Roddicks flaw.
Yes, and also similar to Blake Shelton and dozens of other players with the same technique.
I am not disagreeing with you. You are saying that once one starts their swing, one should start close to their body, then connect with straight arms, but Chris Evert doesnt keep the rackett close to the body, nor does Connors, or Alverez, the best 2 handers in the worldMy opinion. Once Alverez. Jimmy Connors., Chris Evert & me hits the ball, our arms are as straight as a board for maximum power, just like a baseball hitter. Djokovic dont make contact to hit his backhand with straight arms, so I think that Djokovic & others can hit very good with a one hand backhand like many one handers that hit close to their body. . Chris Evert hit with the straightest arms & wrists. A 2 hander with his arms bent a lot dont get much power. Watch Navarro & Zverev hit the ball with loose bending wrists, Connors, &especially Chris Evert swing with wrists that dont bend when they swing, thats why I think they are the best 2 handers. . Djokivic hits real high as head shots, has to have his wrists bent. Two handed top spinners dont hit with straight arms. If Borg was playing today, his long looping backhand wouldnt be fast enough against todays players. His is a video of Chris Evert that hits like Alverez with her arms extended out on the start of her backhand, notice that Martina backhand is very close to her body with little power.
As I think you alluded to, the biggest difference is the racquet head speed in todays game is vastly higher than it was in prior generations. Keeping the hands close and swinging in-to-out allows for a much more fluid swing with naturally faster swing speeds and therefore a more fluid motion to impart topspin. You can even simulate this by trying practice swings with a racquet using both techniques and you'll notice how much easier it is to whip the racquet head. With enough practice anyone can make the out-to-out swing work effectively, but I'm suggesting from it's simply easier and more efficient to follow Zverev and Navarro's technique.
You missed the point that they do hit with straight arms they just only extend them fully just before they start the swing .
Zverev backhand is harder to time
martina hingis BH > emma navaro
An excellent comparison! Hingis backhand was flawless and exactly represents the benefits of this technique
@@TK-Tennis Martina is underrated and it seems crazy to say that. 9 slams finals and 5 slam victories but very few people talks about how great she was to live and win during the era of Serena, Venus, KIm and Justine and her BH was one of her big weapons - great mechanics = power, accuracy and consistency.
I'd say the serve is more flawed. Video please
He made a fairly major adjustment to his service motion last year and it's a fairly major improvement. I do expect to do many many more of these style videos, thanks for watching
Very perceptive.
Dude, the arrogance of your assessment is the only takeaway from this “content”. One shot evaluations? Teaching amateurs from the flaws in an alien being from another planet? And you missed the only noticeable difference. Alcaraz - closed stance. Zverev - open stance. Del Potro and Fernando- both straight arm takeaways on their forehands. Probably the two biggest in history.
Bs
Not sure you know what your talking about bud. Nice try
Luckily for you I am sure ;-) if you play, go out on the court and try it for yourself, then you'll be sure.
Thats funny giving advice to best top 3 player while being amateur😊
Amateurs can see technical flaws. Are you telling me that you can't see any technical flaws in any of the strokes of Frances Tiafoe?
@@Monaleenian Lol, great example.