PINNED: What do you think, is it common knowledge not-to prepare too early? Even if you are well aware of this technique, I find most players still begin their backswings too soon and this causes them to be less fluid with their stroke mechanics and inhibits their movement. If you are a recreational player, I would welcome hearing back from you after you have an opportunity to work on loading-up your back foot and implementing a very deliberate uni-swing. Did it help you, or was it more challenging? Something to bear in mind. Proper backswing technique needs to be adaptive/dynamic, to the specific circumstances of each shot being hit. For example, a ball hit harder and landing near the baseline will require the backswing to be more abbreviated to ensure you still strike the ball with proper technique in your hitting zone. If you enjoy these observations, please consider Subscribing to the channel and tap the notification bell to be notified when new videos are published.
This explains why I have issues with pushers and moonballers...I take my racquet back early because I have so much time and lose power and spin...thanks for the tip coach.
Bingo, wait and then coil and uncoil. Balls without much pace are harder to time and the ability to coil and uncoil becomes paramount to generate pace, plus it adds disguise to the shot. Even with a better timed uniswing it's still not easy to beat pushers, good luck and keep at it
The coach of my coach said: taking back early is the second best thing you can do. It's not the ideal model to follow, but it's still much much better than taking back late.
I like how you’re dispelling old notions that just stick because “that’s the way it’s done”. As a beginner rec player I’ve been watching everyone on yt repeat the same talking points instead of really analyzing the pros. They are pros for a reason.
Thanks. In all aspects of life people often repeat the same things they've heard or been taught without questioning it. Pros are pros for a reason, and you can learn both what to do and what not to do from them.
I could not agree more w this video. I hate the idea of prepare early or racquet back early. It will destroy fluidity. Took me two years to unlearn this terrible concept. Tennis is coil uncoil in one motion.
I think this is where Tiafoe's crazy forehand comes from. The relatively long complicated take-back stops him from taking the racquet back 'too early' and then getting stuck there. Tiafoe's motion is long, but it's smooth and continuous.
Depends on the club level you are playing (imi assuming everyone here is amateur). Maybe at a lower level when the ball goes really slow, it impacts in your strokes, but as you increase the level, and therefore the pace in the rallys, taking the backswing early helps a lot to prepare quickly to this "new" pace of playing. (This is my personal experience) since not everyone is capable of taking your swing back and hit in a brief moment, taking it early allows you to just push forward through the ball.
The title is a little click baity. The unit turn and the raised racket position right before the uni swing can already be considered as “taking the racket back early”. That part can’t be late. 😂I think what the channel owner means is that the actual hitting motion is a 2 stage process - unit turn and high take back and then the actual hitting motion.
When the ball is coming hard and fast, you have no choice but to swing early or else you will be late and error. Otherwise I don't disagree with you. But this notion is really at the beginner's level. Intermediate to advance players know this just by playing a lot and getting the sense for timing. I would argue that the neutral stance is used also for inside-in/inside-out forehands and not just for short balls.
Yes, those slow balls are the hardest to time! It is just like in music. It is much harder to time precisely two notes if there is a long space in between them than to time two notes that are close to each other.
What a wonderful analogy. When two advanced players are hitting the acoustics do sound like harmonic notes, opposed to less advanced players who sound like choppy karaoke ;-)
Omg, this time you really nailed it: you made me speechless, I don't know where to begin. So let's start with the target audience. It must be the very best pros in the world, and the advice is valid only for easy balls and practice sessions. Otherwise you wouldn't have shown only that as video footage. As soon as it gets difficult or the players are less that GOATs things will go south. Have you seen amateurs being late all the time as soon as they get a hard and deep ball? I have, lots of them, including my own children and some fellow colleagues. That's because they synchronize their takeback with the ball bounce. Because when fed balls that works perfectly. To break this rhythm you make them wait with the racquet taken back already. Instant improvement in timing is guaranteed. Moratoglu once said that when the ball bounces all perparation must be done. And he is damn right. So please, please please, with sugar on top: re-edit this video's title to "Advice for aspiring pros only" and everything is fine.
I can show you examples at every level 3.5 and up, and I will do exactly that in upcoming videos. Lower level players hit late because they have less developed technique and timing, not that they didn't get their racquet back early enough. At every level proper preparation before the ball bounces involves movement, positioning and the unit turn...but it certainly does not include the backswing and forward swing. When "Moratoglu once said that when the ball bounces all preparation must be done." he means exactly what I stated in this video and what I said above. You don't need to believe me, all you need to do pay close attention when watching any player with good timing and you will see an effective uni-swing, clearly distinct from the other aspects of proper preparation. To suggest only pros can execute their shots in this manner is wildly misguided. Tennis is a progression of skills and you'll see this at every level, just executed with less precision and technique. This is the way!
@TK-Tennis Well, you showed the goats in practice situations. And nothing else. Maybe your video selection makes the whole content look a little biased. I will wait for video footage of amateurs in tough rallies. That's when a technique has to prove its quality.
@@sebastiandomagala9233 Few people want to watch longer videos, so I need to be selective. You can just as easily watch matches from Pros, college players, 5.0's and 4.5's and you'll see the same thing with the vast majority of players who have discovered the best practice for proper timing and stroke execution
You could have delivered that without the mockery. Yes, there's a difference between pros and amateurs, and yes there's a difference between balling and match play. I agree the instructions towards amateurs shouldn't be merely taken from professional technique. Amateurs don't have the athletiscism to pull it off right away and they must go through a similar path as the pros did, if time permits. Most amateurs will land with a technique very remote from the pros. But without showing the ideal world, it's difficult to sketch a proper path. I wouldn't take any advice from Patrick M, btw, even if he's an established coach on the tour. That guy has the craziest of teaching ideas, even towards amateurs. But that's another discussion.
Similar to this I always note how smooth most of the pros are. They never set the racquet far back then run to the ball and hit it. They get the unit turn and maybe briefly pause but from there begin and flow right into the uni-swing. If the ball is slow, it seems they'll take a longer/bigger uni swing but slow and then accelerate. If the ball is coming on fast, the uniswing will still be smooth but shorter and still fast. When you watch the pros warm up, it isn't static dynamic. It's almost always smooth and flowing. And I agree if you used to think unit turn right into the back swing--wait for ball then hit, you lose flow and momentum.
That's exactly right. The pros backswing is dynamic and adjusts to the pace and depth of each shot being hit, thereby enabling them to hit each shot in their optimum contact zone. They are able to execute this to perfection due to their exceptional anticipation, timing and technique. When each of us have a "Hero day" we know what this feels like, even if it may not look like it ;-)
So the faster the ball’s coming, the earlier unit turn should be, and then your swing must be faster to catch up the bouncing ball. That’s my understanding and how I play the ball.
If the ball is traveling fast, it always implies that it will be landing deeper into the court and therefore the receiving player needs to promptly determine whether it's coming towards their backhand or forehand since they won't have to worry about moving forward too much. Once that determination is made, a natural turn towards that direction is made and in conjunction the unit turn happens simultaneously. (It would be weird to turn towards the ball and keep your hands facing forward preventing the unit turn). The swing should then either be faster if you plan to maintain a full backswing, or it could be a more measured/dynamic backswing that is more abbreviated to ensure you can still hit the shot in the proper contact zone. Each person swing pattern and how dynamic it is or is not is specific to each player. 👋
@@TK-Tennis I think the abbreviated swing is more seen on pro level especially since Agassi popularized the technique. It’s similar to return of serve and more importantly useful for hitting the ball on the rise.
Learning from the pros is good but it's also tricky because amateurs don't have the same athleticism, nor the proverbial 10K hours that went into perfecting stroke technique. Pros have a shorter swing, timewise, to generate more speed (=distance,
This is a fair point. For recreational players who do not have or no longer have a baseline of mobility and athleticism this may no longer be attainable. It can only be executed by players who can take relatively healthy swings at the ball with the ability to impart a fair amount of acceleration.
Ok, the pros, from experience, can read the ball well enough to know the height snd place of where they are going to contact the ball based on the incoming balls flight snd speed etc. they can time the ‘uniswing’ therefore. Most rec players do not have sufficient experience, eyes or reaction to do this. Therefore, an esrly take back is the necessary compensatory move.
You can do your backswing earlier, but many recreational players already take their racquet fully back before they even start moving (or while they're moving) which makes your movement slow and unbalanced making it harder for you to be in the correct position on time, while it also makes your strokes more rigid. But it depends on the player because there are many players that take their racquet back too late. But the biggest problem is that most players take their racquet back with one arm without turning the body.
Well stated. Those players who use only their arms are failing to implement a unit turn by simply turning their shoulders, and without that key aspect of preparation the rest of the biomechanics breaks apart.
Patrick Mouratoglou says the complete opposite. As does Stan Wawrinka and Boris Becker. Last Tuesday I tried Patrick's "prepare, move, execute" principle - and it worked like a dream all session long. CAVEAT: yt if full of viewers who want to consume bat-sh*t crazy tennis technique (or "tricks/tips") - so I don't blame you for feeding them.
Show me where he says the complete opposite. Moving, positioning and the unit turn are all proper fundamentals of proper preparation, taking the racquet back before the bounces is not. Keep and open mind and try it, I'm certain you'll see the benefits.
@@TK-TennisPM seeems to be teaching this to juniors. Just watch a video on his YT channel. Serena and rune do tgis early prep. Rune dont do it that far back. And he coached them both. Etcheverry do it too. I dont like it but you can obv play pretty good tennis with it
@@kwallin8136 Good point and thanks for bringing those example up. Serena is a perfect example of the "racquet back" early technique, as is Etcheverry. Most pros have flaws is some of their stroke mechanics and habits and they are able to overcome them due to the mass of repetition and perfecting their technique. I'm going to take a look at PM's channel to see for myself. Thanks for sharing these example, might come in handy as what to try and avoid for recreational players in future videos.
At 1:56 before ball lands on his court Federer completed his unit turn or the back swing .i.e called early preparation.this is the most dangerous video or immature video made for views with controversial title.pls don’t mislead
love the discussion, thanks, but I disagree with several things. There is definitely a backswing and a forward swing and it’s critical to differentiate them. in between them is the slot position where the racket drops in the modern FH, and flips in the next gen. Time in the slot position varies to match the incoming ball. This is a key advantage of the modern swing vs traditional swing; the play only has to synchronize the forward swing (from the slot forward) with the incoming ball and not from the beginning of the back swing which would be much harder to do. On Momentum, I hear about fluidity and not wanting the racket to stop moving. This is the real myth - you can’t “conserve momentum” in one direction when the racket moves in the opposite direction because at some point the racket’s momentum goes to zero as it changes direction. Most players have a millisecond pause in their motions for all swings. Finally, early prep is crucial. There is a reason why players can’t take a full swing on a serve return: your racket prep is not fast enough. Take a video of a 3.0 player playing a 4.0, or 4.0 playing 5.0 and you will see an inability for the lower-ranked player to adequately prep on faster shots. When a club player moves to a ball before preparing, he will usually misjudge the spacing and the take back will be late. The act of moving to the ball interferes with the player ability to prep the racket on time, (not talking about shots that require the player to run after the ball). So, I understand the argument, but I see other things going on here.
This video was not to suggest that there are not other important technical aspects of the stroke. It's simply a high level view of the most efficient timing of the ball at advanced levels and that the primary backswing does not start until the ball is in the bounce phase on hitters side of the court. A lower level players inability to promptly anticipate where the ball will bounce and where they need to position themself is a different topic, and without proper positioning is not executable without proper positioning. You bring up a good point on whether the racquet stops during the transition from backswing to forward swing. While I cannot argue for or against the physics and facts on whether this is true or not, ChatGPT indicates that there is not a full stop in the transition, and that there are additional biomechanics and kinetic chain effects taking place. From GTP (There is a much more detailed breakdown, but this is the summary): "In professional tennis, the racquet doesn't completely stop between the backswing and forward swing. Instead, it slows briefly during the transition but keeps moving. This smooth motion allows players to store energy in their body and create a powerful, efficient swing using the kinetic chain and racquet lag." Appreciate the constructive dialog 👋
@ yeah, I think it’s clear from the videos how the pros prep for their shots. I would say however that some of those clips are from practice sessions and not at the highest pace. When the pace is higher the racquet is often already back and into the slot position at the time of the bounce. My point was just to say that I do think early preparation a legit point emphasis, not necessarily because you want the player to take the racquet back as early as possible- especially in situations where it’s unnecessary, but because late preparation is common problem among amateur players in every racquet sport. Going back to momentum, fluidity, and swings, the racquet doesn’t necessarily have to stop moving in all directions, (stopped in space) for momentum to be lost. All we need to know is that the direction of the racquet reverses. For example, down and back, turned into forward and upward. The velocities passed through zero and therefore any kind of momentum in the racquet was lost. So it’s essentially a new swing at that point. This is why you can hit a forehand from the Pat The Dog position and it doesn’t require the back swing. Fluidity in today’s tennis game is a style not a fundamental.
@@mikechan231 While momentum is not conserved, if your racquet is still moving backwards when you start the forward movement (with your hips) some of that momentum will be stored as elastic potential in your muscles which activates the stretch shorten cycle more allowing you to accelerate your arm with more speed. But if you just start from the "pat the dog" position you do still avtivate the stretch shorten cycle and you can still hit close to the pace you would if your motion was smooth.
Great point-I should have covered this perspective in the video. The coiling and uncoiling motion enables the legs, core, shoulders, and arms to work together, creating a smooth transfer of kinetic energy.
@@tijgertjekonijnwordopgegeten I agree with this. The benefit of the racquet’s movement during the swing, is not from conserving the momentum of the racquet, (there by making it mechanically easier for the player) it’s how the racquet movement helps to stage the kinetic chain. I think it’s noteworthy to echo your sentiment that, with these modern set ups (PTD), players can start the KC from a near stand still, and so I still think movement from the early parts of the take back are a non factor for the forward swing. I also think this also eliminates some common tennis tropes about fluidity and “not stopping the racquet” from being requirements (key word requirements) of good technique. I was arguing this earlier, that these modern swings (like PTD and next-gen flip (Sinner)) let a player momentarily pause, or slow, their racquet movement without detriment to their swing. For example, compared the circular FH take back of the 60s-70s- 90% of that swing needs to be timed from the start of the take back, and the swing had to be continuous. If we look at Sinner’s FH swing, he can do his UTurn, racquet back earlier if he likes, and then with a slight torque of the hip to pre-stretch, (depending on when you want to categorize the start of his swing) he can initiate his fwd swing and get full power. This decoupling from the initial take back and option to delay (again, talking milliseconds) allows him to make more precise timing judgments over a shorter distance. All this is to say that modern tennis swings break all the long-held assumptions about technique.
This comment highlights an observation I see often. For very young kids (4-6 years old) playing with red balls, the primary verbal cue is often “Bounce, hit,” which is proper instruction. However, as players get older, the instruction shifts to “Racquet back,” which does more harm than good. The phrase “Racquet back” should be completely removed from tennis instruction lexicon.
Bro Bro Bro. What are you saying? when coaches say take the racket back early they don't mean your racket arm they mean turn your upper body. the issue is when starting out learning tennis, most people cant get their heads around this turn so most coaches just start with step in racket back. which is like the simplest way to explain it. as one progresses in tennis the information will change. the issue most club players stop training when they think they have enough to start playing points. all these things i have tried turning early is the best way, coil uncoil is difficult to master especially when playing against higher level players who hit hard and fast or with jumping top spin. frankly speaking after playing for 8 years there other parts of the stroke making that is more important.
horrible advice for amateurs!!! you talking about pro level tennis where they have almost perfect footwork moving efficiently to the ball with almost perfect eye hand foot coordination to track space the ball and length and width for that perfect forehand …they all started as kids 5 or 6 went to tennis academy full time with coaches doing special drills for footwork eye coordination etc. can an average joe able to achieve perfect timing footwork??? or is it early prep take back good enough? people got it be practical.
I have an upcoming video where I highlight 3.5 level players where they execute this technique in a similar manner. In fact, most players instinctively will track and swing in this manner "unless" they've formed the wrong "take back early" habit because of misguided teachings. This is not only for advanced players, it works effectively at all levels as it's the most natural way to approach hitting a ball. Now of course the lower the level players the more they struggle to anticipate the ball properly and therefore are challenged to position themselves properly, but that's a very different topic and taking the racquet back too early only exacerbates their inability to position themselves properly. I appreciate your view, but wholly disagree and will prove it to you with real-life footage in follow up videos. It's practical at all levels.
All the examples you show are already taking the racquet back quite early. Late takeback means starting the unit turn late, typically after the bounce, which ends up hitting the ball too close or even behind the body. So saying ‘early takeback is a myth’ is kinda misleading imo.
Watch some side view slow motion clips on UA-cam. You'll notice that the initial unit turn is responsible for the racquet coming back to the players side, but the actual backswing begins to happen as the ball is bouncing.
See Serena's too early preparation at the :22 mark of this video. Slow the footage down to 25% in the settings. ua-cam.com/video/DBVHAayboXA/v-deo.html
PINNED: What do you think, is it common knowledge not-to prepare too early? Even if you are well aware of this technique, I find most players still begin their backswings too soon and this causes them to be less fluid with their stroke mechanics and inhibits their movement. If you are a recreational player, I would welcome hearing back from you after you have an opportunity to work on loading-up your back foot and implementing a very deliberate uni-swing. Did it help you, or was it more challenging?
Something to bear in mind. Proper backswing technique needs to be adaptive/dynamic, to the specific circumstances of each shot being hit. For example, a ball hit harder and landing near the baseline will require the backswing to be more abbreviated to ensure you still strike the ball with proper technique in your hitting zone.
If you enjoy these observations, please consider Subscribing to the channel and tap the notification bell to be notified when new videos are published.
This explains why I have issues with pushers and moonballers...I take my racquet back early because I have so much time and lose power and spin...thanks for the tip coach.
Bingo, wait and then coil and uncoil. Balls without much pace are harder to time and the ability to coil and uncoil becomes paramount to generate pace, plus it adds disguise to the shot. Even with a better timed uniswing it's still not easy to beat pushers, good luck and keep at it
The coach of my coach said: taking back early is the second best thing you can do. It's not the ideal model to follow, but it's still much much better than taking back late.
hahahahahaha
I like how you’re dispelling old notions that just stick because “that’s the way it’s done”. As a beginner rec player I’ve been watching everyone on yt repeat the same talking points instead of really analyzing the pros. They are pros for a reason.
Thanks. In all aspects of life people often repeat the same things they've heard or been taught without questioning it. Pros are pros for a reason, and you can learn both what to do and what not to do from them.
I could not agree more w this video. I hate the idea of prepare early or racquet back early. It will destroy fluidity. Took me two years to unlearn this terrible concept. Tennis is coil uncoil in one motion.
💯 well stated and I should have referenced it in the manner. Glad you discovered the way, it also took me many moons to unlearn it
I’m still unlearning. This was spot on.
I think this is where Tiafoe's crazy forehand comes from. The relatively long complicated take-back stops him from taking the racquet back 'too early' and then getting stuck there. Tiafoe's motion is long, but it's smooth and continuous.
Great video
Depends on the club level you are playing (imi assuming everyone here is amateur). Maybe at a lower level when the ball goes really slow, it impacts in your strokes, but as you increase the level, and therefore the pace in the rallys, taking the backswing early helps a lot to prepare quickly to this "new" pace of playing. (This is my personal experience) since not everyone is capable of taking your swing back and hit in a brief moment, taking it early allows you to just push forward through the ball.
The title is a little click baity. The unit turn and the raised racket position right before the uni swing can already be considered as “taking the racket back early”. That part can’t be late. 😂I think what the channel owner means is that the actual hitting motion is a 2 stage process - unit turn and high take back and then the actual hitting motion.
When the ball is coming hard and fast, you have no choice but to swing early or else you will be late and error. Otherwise I don't disagree with you. But this notion is really at the beginner's level. Intermediate to advance players know this just by playing a lot and getting the sense for timing. I would argue that the neutral stance is used also for inside-in/inside-out forehands and not just for short balls.
Yes, those slow balls are the hardest to time! It is just like in music. It is much harder to time precisely two notes if there is a long space in between them than to time two notes that are close to each other.
What a wonderful analogy. When two advanced players are hitting the acoustics do sound like harmonic notes, opposed to less advanced players who sound like choppy karaoke ;-)
early take back is a cue to fix the problem of late take back in low level player. Pros do everything at the right time, not early not late.
You should show this video Patrick Mouratoglou. :)
"Mouratoglou offers private tennis lessons, lessons with him costs $7,500" 😂🤦♂️
Omg, this time you really nailed it: you made me speechless, I don't know where to begin.
So let's start with the target audience. It must be the very best pros in the world, and the advice is valid only for easy balls and practice sessions. Otherwise you wouldn't have shown only that as video footage.
As soon as it gets difficult or the players are less that GOATs things will go south.
Have you seen amateurs being late all the time as soon as they get a hard and deep ball? I have, lots of them, including my own children and some fellow colleagues. That's because they synchronize their takeback with the ball bounce.
Because when fed balls that works perfectly. To break this rhythm you make them wait with the racquet taken back already. Instant improvement in timing is guaranteed.
Moratoglu once said that when the ball bounces all perparation must be done.
And he is damn right.
So please, please please, with sugar on top: re-edit this video's title to "Advice for aspiring pros only" and everything is fine.
I can show you examples at every level 3.5 and up, and I will do exactly that in upcoming videos. Lower level players hit late because they have less developed technique and timing, not that they didn't get their racquet back early enough. At every level proper preparation before the ball bounces involves movement, positioning and the unit turn...but it certainly does not include the backswing and forward swing. When "Moratoglu once said that when the ball bounces all preparation must be done." he means exactly what I stated in this video and what I said above.
You don't need to believe me, all you need to do pay close attention when watching any player with good timing and you will see an effective uni-swing, clearly distinct from the other aspects of proper preparation.
To suggest only pros can execute their shots in this manner is wildly misguided. Tennis is a progression of skills and you'll see this at every level, just executed with less precision and technique. This is the way!
@TK-Tennis Well, you showed the goats in practice situations. And nothing else. Maybe your video selection makes the whole content look a little biased.
I will wait for video footage of amateurs in tough rallies. That's when a technique has to prove its quality.
@@sebastiandomagala9233 Few people want to watch longer videos, so I need to be selective. You can just as easily watch matches from Pros, college players, 5.0's and 4.5's and you'll see the same thing with the vast majority of players who have discovered the best practice for proper timing and stroke execution
You could have delivered that without the mockery. Yes, there's a difference between pros and amateurs, and yes there's a difference between balling and match play. I agree the instructions towards amateurs shouldn't be merely taken from professional technique. Amateurs don't have the athletiscism to pull it off right away and they must go through a similar path as the pros did, if time permits. Most amateurs will land with a technique very remote from the pros. But without showing the ideal world, it's difficult to sketch a proper path.
I wouldn't take any advice from Patrick M, btw, even if he's an established coach on the tour. That guy has the craziest of teaching ideas, even towards amateurs. But that's another discussion.
@@sebastiandomagala9233 you cann see me. i am not a porfessional player and did not play since 2020
Similar to this I always note how smooth most of the pros are. They never set the racquet far back then run to the ball and hit it. They get the unit turn and maybe briefly pause but from there begin and flow right into the uni-swing. If the ball is slow, it seems they'll take a longer/bigger uni swing but slow and then accelerate. If the ball is coming on fast, the uniswing will still be smooth but shorter and still fast.
When you watch the pros warm up, it isn't static dynamic. It's almost always smooth and flowing. And I agree if you used to think unit turn right into the back swing--wait for ball then hit, you lose flow and momentum.
That's exactly right. The pros backswing is dynamic and adjusts to the pace and depth of each shot being hit, thereby enabling them to hit each shot in their optimum contact zone. They are able to execute this to perfection due to their exceptional anticipation, timing and technique. When each of us have a "Hero day" we know what this feels like, even if it may not look like it ;-)
So the faster the ball’s coming, the earlier unit turn should be, and then your swing must be faster to catch up the bouncing ball. That’s my understanding and how I play the ball.
If the ball is traveling fast, it always implies that it will be landing deeper into the court and therefore the receiving player needs to promptly determine whether it's coming towards their backhand or forehand since they won't have to worry about moving forward too much. Once that determination is made, a natural turn towards that direction is made and in conjunction the unit turn happens simultaneously. (It would be weird to turn towards the ball and keep your hands facing forward preventing the unit turn). The swing should then either be faster if you plan to maintain a full backswing, or it could be a more measured/dynamic backswing that is more abbreviated to ensure you can still hit the shot in the proper contact zone. Each person swing pattern and how dynamic it is or is not is specific to each player. 👋
@@TK-Tenniseasier said then done.
@@xupac1379 LOL, yes it always is and i never suggested it was easy in execution ;-)
@@TK-Tennis I think the abbreviated swing is more seen on pro level especially since Agassi popularized the technique. It’s similar to return of serve and more importantly useful for hitting the ball on the rise.
Learning from the pros is good but it's also tricky because amateurs don't have the same athleticism, nor the proverbial 10K hours that went into perfecting stroke technique. Pros have a shorter swing, timewise, to generate more speed (=distance,
This is a fair point. For recreational players who do not have or no longer have a baseline of mobility and athleticism this may no longer be attainable. It can only be executed by players who can take relatively healthy swings at the ball with the ability to impart a fair amount of acceleration.
Ok, the pros, from experience, can read the ball well enough to know the height snd place of where they are going to contact the ball based on the incoming balls flight snd speed etc. they can time the ‘uniswing’ therefore. Most rec players do not have sufficient experience, eyes or reaction to do this. Therefore, an esrly take back is the necessary compensatory move.
You can do your backswing earlier, but many recreational players already take their racquet fully back before they even start moving (or while they're moving) which makes your movement slow and unbalanced making it harder for you to be in the correct position on time, while it also makes your strokes more rigid.
But it depends on the player because there are many players that take their racquet back too late.
But the biggest problem is that most players take their racquet back with one arm without turning the body.
Well stated. Those players who use only their arms are failing to implement a unit turn by simply turning their shoulders, and without that key aspect of preparation the rest of the biomechanics breaks apart.
Looking forward to your next video on why you can struggle in hitting the ball out in front! 😁
Patrick Mouratoglou says the complete opposite. As does Stan Wawrinka and Boris Becker. Last Tuesday I tried Patrick's "prepare, move, execute" principle - and it worked like a dream all session long. CAVEAT: yt if full of viewers who want to consume bat-sh*t crazy tennis technique (or "tricks/tips") - so I don't blame you for feeding them.
Show me where he says the complete opposite. Moving, positioning and the unit turn are all proper fundamentals of proper preparation, taking the racquet back before the bounces is not. Keep and open mind and try it, I'm certain you'll see the benefits.
@@TK-TennisPM seeems to be teaching this to juniors. Just watch a video on his YT channel. Serena and rune do tgis early prep. Rune dont do it that far back. And he coached them both. Etcheverry do it too. I dont like it but you can obv play pretty good tennis with it
@@kwallin8136 Good point and thanks for bringing those example up. Serena is a perfect example of the "racquet back" early technique, as is Etcheverry. Most pros have flaws is some of their stroke mechanics and habits and they are able to overcome them due to the mass of repetition and perfecting their technique. I'm going to take a look at PM's channel to see for myself. Thanks for sharing these example, might come in handy as what to try and avoid for recreational players in future videos.
At 1:56 before ball lands on his court Federer completed his unit turn or the back swing .i.e called early preparation.this is the most dangerous video or immature video made for views with controversial title.pls don’t mislead
No. He did not complete his back swing. 2:06 he starts his preparation, 2:11 he ends his swing
love the discussion, thanks, but I disagree with several things. There is definitely a backswing and a forward swing and it’s critical to differentiate them. in between them is the slot position where the racket drops in the modern FH, and flips in the next gen. Time in the slot position varies to match the incoming ball. This is a key advantage of the modern swing vs traditional swing; the play only has to synchronize the forward swing (from the slot forward) with the incoming ball and not from the beginning of the back swing which would be much harder to do. On Momentum, I hear about fluidity and not wanting the racket to stop moving. This is the real myth - you can’t “conserve momentum” in one direction when the racket moves in the opposite direction because at some point the racket’s momentum goes to zero as it changes direction. Most players have a millisecond pause in their motions for all swings. Finally, early prep is crucial. There is a reason why players can’t take a full swing on a serve return: your racket prep is not fast enough. Take a video of a 3.0 player playing a 4.0, or 4.0 playing 5.0 and you will see an inability for the lower-ranked player to adequately prep on faster shots. When a club player moves to a ball before preparing, he will usually misjudge the spacing and the take back will be late. The act of moving to the ball interferes with the player ability to prep the racket on time, (not talking about shots that require the player to run after the ball). So, I understand the argument, but I see other things going on here.
This video was not to suggest that there are not other important technical aspects of the stroke. It's simply a high level view of the most efficient timing of the ball at advanced levels and that the primary backswing does not start until the ball is in the bounce phase on hitters side of the court. A lower level players inability to promptly anticipate where the ball will bounce and where they need to position themself is a different topic, and without proper positioning is not executable without proper positioning.
You bring up a good point on whether the racquet stops during the transition from backswing to forward swing. While I cannot argue for or against the physics and facts on whether this is true or not, ChatGPT indicates that there is not a full stop in the transition, and that there are additional biomechanics and kinetic chain effects taking place.
From GTP (There is a much more detailed breakdown, but this is the summary): "In professional tennis, the racquet doesn't completely stop between the backswing and forward swing. Instead, it slows briefly during the transition but keeps moving. This smooth motion allows players to store energy in their body and create a powerful, efficient swing using the kinetic chain and racquet lag."
Appreciate the constructive dialog 👋
@ yeah, I think it’s clear from the videos how the pros prep for their shots. I would say however that some of those clips are from practice sessions and not at the highest pace. When the pace is higher the racquet is often already back and into the slot position at the time of the bounce. My point was just to say that I do think early preparation a legit point emphasis, not necessarily because you want the player to take the racquet back as early as possible- especially in situations where it’s unnecessary, but because late preparation is common problem among amateur players in every racquet sport.
Going back to momentum, fluidity, and swings, the racquet doesn’t necessarily have to stop moving in all directions, (stopped in space) for momentum to be lost. All we need to know is that the direction of the racquet reverses. For example, down and back, turned into forward and upward. The velocities passed through zero and therefore any kind of momentum in the racquet was lost. So it’s essentially a new swing at that point. This is why you can hit a forehand from the Pat The Dog position and it doesn’t require the back swing. Fluidity in today’s tennis game is a style not a fundamental.
@@mikechan231 While momentum is not conserved, if your racquet is still moving backwards when you start the forward movement (with your hips) some of that momentum will be stored as elastic potential in your muscles which activates the stretch shorten cycle more allowing you to accelerate your arm with more speed.
But if you just start from the "pat the dog" position you do still avtivate the stretch shorten cycle and you can still hit close to the pace you would if your motion was smooth.
Great point-I should have covered this perspective in the video. The coiling and uncoiling motion enables the legs, core, shoulders, and arms to work together, creating a smooth transfer of kinetic energy.
@@tijgertjekonijnwordopgegeten I agree with this. The benefit of the racquet’s movement during the swing, is not from conserving the momentum of the racquet, (there by making it mechanically easier for the player) it’s how the racquet movement helps to stage the kinetic chain. I think it’s noteworthy to echo your sentiment that, with these modern set ups (PTD), players can start the KC from a near stand still, and so I still think movement from the early parts of the take back are a non factor for the forward swing. I also think this also eliminates some common tennis tropes about fluidity and “not stopping the racquet” from being requirements (key word requirements) of good technique. I was arguing this earlier, that these modern swings (like PTD and next-gen flip (Sinner)) let a player momentarily pause, or slow, their racquet movement without detriment to their swing. For example, compared the circular FH take back of the 60s-70s- 90% of that swing needs to be timed from the start of the take back, and the swing had to be continuous. If we look at Sinner’s FH swing, he can do his UTurn, racquet back earlier if he likes, and then with a slight torque of the hip to pre-stretch, (depending on when you want to categorize the start of his swing) he can initiate his fwd swing and get full power. This decoupling from the initial take back and option to delay (again, talking milliseconds) allows him to make more precise timing judgments over a shorter distance. All this is to say that modern tennis swings break all the long-held assumptions about technique.
The biggest problem I think is that coaches and rec clinic coaches still chide people for not taking the racquet back early
This comment highlights an observation I see often. For very young kids (4-6 years old) playing with red balls, the primary verbal cue is often “Bounce, hit,” which is proper instruction. However, as players get older, the instruction shifts to “Racquet back,” which does more harm than good. The phrase “Racquet back” should be completely removed from tennis instruction lexicon.
Bro Bro Bro. What are you saying? when coaches say take the racket back early they don't mean your racket arm they mean turn your upper body. the issue is when starting out learning tennis, most people cant get their heads around this turn so most coaches just start with step in racket back. which is like the simplest way to explain it. as one progresses in tennis the information will change. the issue most club players stop training when they think they have enough to start playing points. all these things i have tried turning early is the best way, coil uncoil is difficult to master especially when playing against higher level players who hit hard and fast or with jumping top spin. frankly speaking after playing for 8 years there other parts of the stroke making that is more important.
Did you really "Bro Bro Bro" me 🤦♂️!
when coaches say take the racket back early they don't mean your racket arm they mean turn your upper body. Patrick sayes and showed in his video.
horrible advice for amateurs!!! you talking about pro level tennis where they have almost perfect footwork moving efficiently to the ball with almost perfect eye hand foot coordination to track space the ball and length and width for that perfect forehand …they all started as kids 5 or 6 went to tennis academy full time with coaches doing special drills for footwork eye coordination etc. can an average joe able to achieve perfect timing footwork??? or is it early prep take back good enough? people got it be practical.
I have an upcoming video where I highlight 3.5 level players where they execute this technique in a similar manner. In fact, most players instinctively will track and swing in this manner "unless" they've formed the wrong "take back early" habit because of misguided teachings. This is not only for advanced players, it works effectively at all levels as it's the most natural way to approach hitting a ball. Now of course the lower the level players the more they struggle to anticipate the ball properly and therefore are challenged to position themselves properly, but that's a very different topic and taking the racquet back too early only exacerbates their inability to position themselves properly.
I appreciate your view, but wholly disagree and will prove it to you with real-life footage in follow up videos. It's practical at all levels.
Looking forward to seeing this!
All the examples you show are already taking the racquet back quite early. Late takeback means starting the unit turn late, typically after the bounce, which ends up hitting the ball too close or even behind the body. So saying ‘early takeback is a myth’ is kinda misleading imo.
Watch some side view slow motion clips on UA-cam. You'll notice that the initial unit turn is responsible for the racquet coming back to the players side, but the actual backswing begins to happen as the ball is bouncing.
All the clips shown are of pro players and ok, I have seen the right movement. Now can you show me an example of the wrong movement?
See Serena's too early preparation at the :22 mark of this video. Slow the footage down to 25% in the settings. ua-cam.com/video/DBVHAayboXA/v-deo.html
I had a guy tell me long ago to get my racket back as soon as I knew what shot I was about to hit. His name is Rod Laver, I’ll listen to him thanks.