It's still strange to me that they didn't merge this backgrounds together - thematically this would work (and in 5e it was pretty much that). Also Crafter should 100% give you +20% price to sell items too - that's basicaly how bargaining proficiency worked in old editions.
@@tnaivel WIth modern sensibilities this comment is hilarious, because that's exactly what businesses do nowadays, give each other massive discounts. It's beneficial for both sides because it lets them stifle competition and make more profits simultaneously. First rule of business, if you're planning to compete you're already losing.
@@dandereninja4750 I actually like what they did with the Aasimar. I felt they were losing out at having to choose between the Radiant and Necro aspects. Now it fits more closely as an Angelic figure. This will definitely be the class I choose.
@@AdellRedwinters oh, agreed, for sure. Like my games will be fine, but im going to have to spend another edition's worth of time explaining to people that yes, you *can* in fact use a custom background.
@@bigdream_dreambig there technically are. Strixhaven, Bigby's Glory of the Giants, Planscape, and Dragonlance have proto-origin feats that function in the same capacity. And im sure more will come that will get the official "origin" label.
@@AdellRedwinters It shouldn't just have been in the PHB, it should have been the defaut, like it was in one of the UA's. I really think they should have made the custom background the default, with what is basically some examples as backgrounds listed. But that is just my opinion.
• Free origin feat • +2, +1 / +1, +1, +1 • 2 skills • 1 tool proficiency • 50 GP • RP background decided as wished Et voila, custom backgrounds. Wizards can hire me any day now. Anyway, this is how I'll exclusively be playing it at my tables & I'll suggest this to ever DM where I'm a player
FYI: The four missing combinations for Ability Scores are: Strength, Constitution, Intelligence Strength, Constitution, Charisma Strength, Wisdom, Charisma Dexterity, Intelligence, Charisma You can build whatever background you want with these but in the sense of what we've already got, i thought of Laborer, Athlete, Cultist and Courtier in that order.
Thanks for doing this! Also, interesting that Strength, Con, and Charisma is one of the missing combinations. This is particularly rough for paladins, since they are already MAD and now have no way to get their three stats to 16 at level 1 using only the existing backgrounds. A hidden nerf to the class that already got hit with a pretty staggering change.
Why did they stop at 16 and not have all possible combinations? It really wouldn’t have been that much more work and just seems really weird to not have them. Especially with the eff you to Paladins by not having Str Con Cha and instead having Acolyte with the three mental stats
If you are building a paladin using point-buy, and you want all three stats to have the same value, a background with those attributes would save one point. Hardly a crippling blow, and if there was such a background and you couldn't live without that combination then it would mean every paladin you ever make would have to be from the same background. If you take a background that has two of those three, take a +2 in one of them and +1 in the other, then does it matter that it didn't have the other one available for you to not take? Especially if opening up your choice of backgrounds also opens up which origin feats you can take.
@@travisworks1791 i really feel like all these backgrounds are just sample and there isn’t a table that won’t let you mix and match, they are the most balanced mechanic to homebrew in the edition (not saying origin feats are, just backgrounds)
Why does Ermit gives a bonus to charisma? "I've spent numerous years alone in the middle of nowhere only interacting with animals of course I'm good with people"
There's some potential here, especially with respect to the kinds of things Charisma saves tend to work for, mostly things like self assertion and confidence. But, this is more a problem with how D&D has been pretty shaky and inconsistent on what Charisma is, and the weird relationship Charisma and Wisdom have in terms of thematics.
I am 100% going to run custom backgrounds and also, because players often like to put things together themselves, I'm probably going to make a bunch of additional pre-made backgrounds for each of my homebrew worlds and send those to the players. The one good thing about the way they're doing it is that they're formulaic, so it will be very easy to create new ones without worrying you're making something unbalanced.
Honestly...they are backgrounds, I think I'd let players outright custom craft them. Ask them to make it thematic rather than min-maxy, but just let them custom make it
The weird constraints on these backgrounds are gonna lead to some weird sudden trends. Suddenly a bunch of clerics grew up on a farm or in the middle of literally nowhere, and every wizard was breaking into vaults to steal their spellbook.
@@DukeTrout I think lots of these are fun combos to think about, maybe a noble cleric is from a city like the vatican with some veey heavy religious culture throughout, but they're a noble and not an acolyte because they worked as an emissary for contact with other regions? Stuff like that is really interesting, but the weird constraints are ginna make certain combos weirdly common if you disallow customised backgrounds.
Agreed. Sure, it might be fun when the first Monk used to be a sailor, but when EVERY ONE of the next 10 monks was? The new background rules are bad and this is just one reason why (see my other comment on other ones), but at least WotC explicitly says you can flavor your background any way you want, so if I play a Monk without customization, my "Sailor" background will be flavored as a baby left on the monastery doorstep, or something similar.
Toril's deities derive power from the numbers of their faithful. When you consider the most common profession in a preindustrial society, it should make perfect sense that most clerics were born to farm families. Most people were born to farm families, because the overwhelming majority of families were farmers. Just because Chauntea doesn't throw weight around doesn't mean they're not the most powerful of the gods.
All this lack of customization just makes the Human species better than ever, since they get one extra origin feat (not tied to backgrounds - this is how you can easily get Magic Initiate (Wizard) ), one extra skill (also not tied to background - making up for the fact backgrounds will usually have one skill you'll be bad at because it's powered by a stat you might not increase), and one free Heroic Inspiration per long rest (which you can choose to use after you roll, unlike the new Lucky feat). It's weird that the playtest not only had background customization rules, but a customized background was the default option (I'd wager people were satisfied with that version). This is still at least workable, though, since most (impactful) origin feats appear in two different backgrounds.
I’ve been a real fan of the majority of the 5.24 changes so far, but this one really doesn’t work for me. I think they dropped then ball by not including customization options in this book. I adored the flexibility Tasha’s offered with ability scores and this feels like a real step backwards. I want to choose my boosted stats and my Feat!
Someone and I mean someone during this ENTIRE PROCESS had to say this was a horrible idea. Attaching ability scores and origin feats to backgrounds locks you into picking only certain backgrounds.....seriously.
It feels like the same problem they noticed with races from the old 5e rules, where people were only picking certain races for certain classes/multiclasses because they needed the right ability scores. Except now it's worse because they also provide specific feats. I don't like to be negative but I really don't know how this got published the way it is
@@sketchyfox7368 There are only 7 Str Origins, compared to 9 Dex/Wis or 8 Con/Int, so its best to not take away Str from Noble. The good aspect of it is that now Paladin and Noble have more Synergy and it feels appropriate Hermit is not excusable they should change its name to Mender or Doctor
Someone at Wizards really loves the "skilled" feat - not only does it show up so often here, more or less killing otherwise decent backgrounds, but it's also 'recommended' for the human racial feat.
Is it really that bad though? Many classes get barely any skills, so getting 3 extra skills is far from a bad feat. It's just that alert and musician are so overpowered.
@@Lumpyrox1412 I honestly like it. I feels bad being a wizard with like 3 skill proficiencies. I guess the usefulness of this depends on your gm though.
I do like this change to backgrounds...for a player who has never built a character in dnd. Having all of that customization could be a lot for a first-time player to parse through. However, after a player's first time making a character, I would just tell them "Hey, these backgrounds are just guidelines. You can customize them however you want, including the stats, feat, skills, etc."
“tHiNk oF tHe NoObS” is a bad excuse for the awful changes in 2024. Clerics and sorcerers need their level 1 subclasses, because not all clerics are healers and gods are varied and you need to show that with at least first level domain features, and sorcerers need level 1 subclasses for things like divine soul so they can have divine spells and be a healer. As for backgrounds, they absolutely should have custom background be in PHB. If you think that will somehow be an issue for newbies, then it can recommend new players not to use it. But those of us who aren’t new, or who have played for a couple months even, should have access to custom background without needing dm permissions
@@captainrelyk moving cleric and sorcerer subclasses to third level is more about balance than being "noob" friendly. They presented it as being a change so that new players don't have analysis paralysis when looking at 1st level, but we all know that it was just changed to nerf a 1st level dip. All I'm saying is it will be easier for a first time player to use the pre-made backgrounds, and for everyone else, including you and me, it will be easy to just make our own backgrounds, with or without the dmg. There is even a rule in the phb itself that, if you use an old background from a previous book, you give it whatever asi's you want and swap the ribbon feature for an origin feat. So right there printed in the phb is your custom backgrounds.
This is why you both present these premade packages and a custom option in the bare rules. Hiding it away in the dmg will only cause conflict and confusion
@@MaMastoast There is a custom option in the base rules, it's just not referred to as a custom option. If you use a background from a previous book, you can put your ASIs wherever you want, and you replace the ribbon feature with an origin feat.
@@MaMastoast you have 16 backgrounds with the same core features just changing around, anyone without the rules can move two gears on their brains to come up with the background they want
They could just have the template "1 origin feat, ASIs, 2 skills" and have the backgrounds as SUGGESTED backgrounds. NO ONE would be mad at that, but now we all have to talk with the DM about it beforehand.
I'm a little concerned for folks who *don't* talk to their DM during character creation. I mean, I'm sure the tables we've played at were different, but I've never seen the DM as some enemy that I need to trick or outwit when making my character, and when DMing, I'm usually trying my hardest to help the players feel like awesome heroes.
@@bearcat1868 I'm not saying I want to surprise my DM. I just don't like to ask my DM for any favors and want to do things by the book. If I want to use this rule set this is a favor I have to ask.
The original custom background was also an optional rule that the DM needed to allow. That and this would both just be session 0 things at most tables.
This feels kind of dumb. I was only able to rationalize removing stats from race because it would allow more options, but now it's all my fighters are farmers instead of all my fighters are half orcs, but for the same reason.
@@agilemind6241 Do they though? Outside of elf, orc and tiefling? Certainly seems not really possible with autognomes, thri-kreen, plasmoids, warforged, centaurs... you see where I'm going with this. Also the designers call these different selections "Species", so it's kind of difficult to argue that they're not in fact different species.
I really anticipated each background giving a choice between two origin feats. This way really shoehorns in which backgrounds will be used most. Time to play with a party of Smooth Criminals.
Right, and no cleric would ever pick Acolyte since why would you want magic initiate: cleric if you're a cleric? Sage is the best option for most clerics
@@rogen8094 For (essentially) an extra first level slot. Not the best choice, but not horrible. That said, yes, Sage is just better, and the 'free first level slot' would apply more to Sage Wizards or Guide Druids than Acolyte Clerics - Sage and Guide at least has useful stat spreads.
"Takes the Acolyte background" My new PC: And they were raised by wolves, and have lived in the wilderness ever since. DM: 'Why acolyte though?' Me: '...because mechanics." DM: '...'
They are an acolyte trained by the wolves, worshiping an unknown moon deity. They have a strange fondness for rabbits, cheese, and conspiracy theories for some reason.
I’m definitely leaning towards custom backgrounds if a player wants them. A simple +2 +1 or 3x +1, pick an origin feat, pick 2 skills, pick a tool, get 50 gp. Make a cohesive backstory that explains your choices.
Yay! Catching this within the first half hour after it's made public! Good morning Chris! I really love your videos on the new book because you're showing us the mechanics where a lot of people are giving general overviews! All of your hard work is so appreciated, much love! 💜 have a great weekend and I hope your family time was awesome!
As I understand it, you can technically customize backgrounds by selecting an old background not in the 2024 PHB. If you do this, you assign your +2 bonus to any one attribute and your +1 to a second attribute. Or you can do a +1 to three different attributes. Then you select any origin feat that you would like, unless the old background provides you with a starting feat already. I could be wrong, but I seem to recollect Jeremy Crawford mentioning this alternative.
Honestly I hate this new system. If old characters felt restrictive because of racial stat bonuses if you didn't allow the Tasha's customized rule, this feels worse. Some of these backgrounds have weird ability spreads and as you have mentioned, not all the original feats were made equal. If I was considering the 2024 rules before, this has killed them for me.
I figure DMs who have optimizers as players might have to supervise a tiny bit of customization, but even optimizers aren’t getting anything super insane from background optimization (unless the whole party optimizes the hell out of the options). I feel like most groups can probably allow for complete customization without issue
@@jugglejunk that's not a custom background. Custom Background means constructing a background using the Custom Background template/rules. You have "slots", like one skill choice, one origin feat slot, set ability score increases etc.
@@floofzykitty5072 there are some guidelines for porting over old backgrounds this would most definitely cover Strixhaven thoo the Ravnica ones are way more powerful if you give them a feat on top of the extra spells known
With what's presented so far, I think this is absolutely true. When new books start coming out with new backgrounds and new origin feats to pick from, it might be good for the DM to be able to grab the reigns a little bit.
A thought: Scribe’s a solid choice for an Eldritch Knight or Psi Warrior going with finesse weapons. Extra skills plays nicely with Tactical Mind, as the proficiency bump is likely to leave you closer to success when you use the feature, so you won’t have to roll as high to turn failure to success, and Calligrapher’s supplies mean scroll scribing. The other hidden gem here is Guide, because you can get Shillelagh with INT on your Eldritch Knight. And that is tempting.
@@WakkowolfI’m playing an EK based a bit off of my first 5e pc, who was also an EK. Wanna see how the lifting of school restrictions and the new war magic play in practice. I’m going Scribe though because I want to dual wield with the new dual wielding. Do a zillion attacks
Three options for ASIs is better for your primaries, though. Just try being a Dragonborn Cleric of Bahamut. 15 WIS is rough when you really wanted to take War Caster at level 4.
@@AnaseSkyrider If that Cleric was an Acolyte, then all but a +2 to WIS are pretty much useless to him. A dragonborn cleric can, at least, bonk pretty hard, and many Cleric spells (especially buffs and heals) don't really care about WIS anyway. To be fair, I give everyone a bonus feat at level 1 at my table, specifically because there are so many character concepts that desperately need a specific feat to work.
@@theodorehunter4765 I mean, not really. He was a Life Cleric, so not even martial weapons. No fighting style. No real weapon feats to increase damage. Doesn't really bonk hard.
Does anyone else feel that the Backgrounds listed really push potential characters into cookie-cutter archetypes? I'm having a similar reaction to this as I had to the 4E Essentials range, where they took a system that had begun to really open up character options with the xxxx Power books, and brought it crashing back down to super vanilla concepts. I hope I'm wrong and the customising rules are as flexible as Treantmonk suspects, but that's my sense.
I like the idea of what they were going for with backgrounds, but it missed the mark. They solved the race/class combo issue with Tasha's, and then recreated the exact same problem with backgrounds in 2024! And to make matters worse, this limitation significantly limits the backstories your players can make for their character. Arrrrggghhhhh.
Exactly! This is a huge step backward in what they were supposedly trying to achieve. Having to coordinate with other players about what classes everybody was playing was one thing, and you could have different subclasses or something if you both really wanted to play the same class. But now, you also have to check what backgrounds everybody's using, because you could literally have redundant feats, skill proficiencies, and tool proficiencies, that you cannot customize or swap. And the backgrounds are tied to ability scores too, so it really limits what backgrounds are feasible for your character. Just an awful system. But hey, this gives them room to add more backgrounds later and charge you $2 each for them. Microtransactions, baby!
Players can allways invent what ever backround story they want… So it does not limit at all… This is good for new players. Simple, chose what ever backround sounds good and after that make changes to you character sheet and you are good to go!
This is so annoying. They literally took one of the worst parts of the 2014 rules that THEY THEMSELVES got rid of in Tasha’s, and brought it back worse than ever- just slapped onto backgrounds this time instead of race. I hate this so much.
If my group uses the new rules, we will definitely take these piecemeal. Everything will be swappable. Also, the Dungeon Dudes talked about the removal of the TBIFs (Traits, Bonds, Ideals, Flaws), which I liked to have on my sheet, even if I typically made my own.
it is good to note in the new phb theres a sidebar about using past backgrounds and races and how you simply choose what you want for asi, skills and feat and also get the background's past feature so its technically more powerful and customizable to just use past backgrounds
@@caosisaac You could also go Human, since they get an additional origin feat of their choice. As an example, be a Human Monk, take Tavern Brawler for your Human feat, Guide as your background, take whichever attribute buffs you want since Dex/Con/Wis is all good for Monks, grab your two favorite Druid cantrips and favorite level 1 Druid spell, and you're off to a pretty good start.
@@CivilWarMan that's still forcing me to be a guide though; and a human on top of that. My current 2024 monk is an aasimar acolyte 4 elements monk that worships talos and shows devotion to the god of storms and destruction through combat. So reformatting to fit the new bg i'd be losing my dex bonuses and replacing tavern brawler for magic initiate unless i also changed my race to human. Either way my current character cannot exist with these rules when it was perfectly viable in the playtest.
I'm pretty sure I saw a video that had JC say that you could pick an old background and you just choose a +2 and +1 or 3 +1 stat improvements and an origin feat. This should be pretty customisable, maybe even more customisable than custom origin background depending on what you want.
So then what, they expect players to sift through multiple PHBs and compare the new 2024 backgrounds versus the old 2014 ones in case they want to customize? Why not just make all of the backgrounds customizable?
@20storiesunder They removed everything that was flavour from the Background aside the names? The flavour is in the little ribbon abilities, not mechanics. 🤔 Similar issue with the Ranger. The mechanics are fine, most of the weak ribbon abilities that made the Ranger's flavour as a class are gone, "replaced" by Spells.
I appreciate the clear intro and nuances about how we can and should be able to customize backgrounds, notably to fit a different world, culture, backstory, etc.
The way backgrounds work now, I like that. The way it has worked with the backgrounds presented... nope, not a fan. This is too constraining. I know there will be rules on modifying it in the DMG, but that fells like something that should have been in the PHB, since it is a *player* issue. Personally, I've already talked with my DM, and when/if (yeah, still an IF) we try out the new stuff in a campaign I'll be playing a Dancer Bard, with background of 'Shrine Maiden.' Fits in with the Acolyte, right? Yeah, mostly, except it is important to the character that she was in a temple to the goddess Mielikki (forests), and very must wasn't a *priestess,* as a shrine maiden she was a glorified maid who cleaned the temple, prepared food, and only participated in the rituals as a dancer. Hence 'magic initiate Druid' instead of 'Magic Initiate Cleric.'
Yeah these suck. They suck hard. They may as well have left these pages in the book blank because I will never use these at my table, nor join a table that enforces them. If a DM insists on using these I will simply not join their games, and I will encourage others not to join their games. These are so anti-fun and make creativity and optimization go away (and not even particularly powerful optimization!) Why would a wizard that only ever trains to be a wizard not be able to put points into relevant scores like dexterity and also get the only feat for the "wizard" class? Was really hoping that rules as written would finally not need heavy doses of home-brew/supplementary books to make core-features work. To be clear, I don't care if a player CHOOSES to use them, or a dungeon master ALLOWS for their use, but if someone ENFORCES their use then that's "ew, gross, dont touch me with it".
I actually wish backgrounds didn’t matter for optimization and we could go back to having Roleplay centric features. How is an acolyte guaranteed to get lodging at a temple now? How is a sage supposed to know where to find information if they fail to recall knowledge? How is a noble supposed to be able to meet with other nobles
In games I DM, I will just give players BOTH their origin feat AND the 2014 background feature of their choice. More fun, more flavor, and it comes up rarely so it's not in any way overpowered.
Temples aren't any less inclined to shelter their marketing team, nobles aren't going to forget how much they dislike having to spend so much time with one another or how gossip is the only thing that redeems it. You may simply want to make a note for yourself to the effect that if the sage you're consulting isn't aware of libraries, you don't need a different background so much as you need a different sage.
It was so easy to make that template you made in the end as RAW and then use this 16 as just quick examples. They just had to balance the origin feats against each other, not even against all feats. Its beyond me why make such a closed design when an open design would be way better and maybe even easier.
Thanks for the video Chris. Imho, ASI, if not in the species, should be in the classes, not in the backgrounds. Another thing: it would have been nice to have the chance to choose between two different origin feats in each of the backgrounds. 🤷🏻♂️
There's 20 possible permutations of 3 attributes, but there are only 16 backgrounds. It's missing backgrounds for (STR/CON/INT), (STR/CON/CHA), (STR/WIS/CHA), and (DEX/INT/CHA). My OCD hates this a lot.
Kind of crazy. Hard to imagine everyone not ignoring the ability scores on these. I'm assuming it's so that there's a lot of room for new backgrounds, and also just power creep general.
This is a garbage change. Pigeonholing players into only ever picking certain backgrounds and playstyles is stupid. Hiding behind "flavor is free." Is stupid. Oh cool I'm a fathomless warlock but I wasn't a sailor. I was a random merchant mechanically. On top of that, I can't wait to not get Magic Initiate on Arcane Trickster or Eldritch knight, AKA THE CLASSES WHO WANT IT.
Just let us do any stat with any background They minimized "optimal stat picks" with tashas and they backpedaled Atypical character archtypes are great, dont punish us for them
Mechanical backgrounds couldn't be a way of hiding ability score improvements behind a paywall, in random loot boxes. That's not the future of a VVT, right?
I don't like how this works... It's going to funnel *ALL* characters into the handful of backgrounds with good Feats... I think I'm gonna give the starting Feats and Attribute Bonuses the Tasha's Treatment, and let them go anywhere...
Yeah, I think I hate tying the Ability Score boosts to the Backgrounds. And also tying Origin Feats to the Backgrounds. Looks like it's custom Backgrounds or bust.
With all the push to "diversify" the species, it seems odd to me that they have gotten so rigid on the backgrounds by locking a single feat into each background. For example, locking the "Healer" into the "Hermit" feat--feels like there could be a few other likely thematic matches for a lone hermit out in the woods living with nature (e.g. Magic Initiate Druid among others). Also, some of them seem to "fight" what should be a natural combination. A studious Wizard who has read everything he could find about the lost city of Magicopolis would seem to be a natural fit for Sage... but by forcing that background to take "Magic Initiate: Wizard" disincentives that choice. So the most "studious" class is unlikely to take the most academically oriented background. I understand they wanted to direct the "theme" or "feel" of backgrounds, but given all the push to open up and diversify certain aspects of character creation they have gotten oddly stingy here.
They always had that, even in the 2014 PHB. Every new player I've ever played with just chose a pre-made background, and didn't even know you could customize them because they didn't read that section of the book.
The new backgrounds are horrible. It reintroduced the problem from before TCOE. It’s also limited, why can’t there be sages who study nature or religion, or entertainers who entertain using illusions or sword juggling instead of music? It also punishes players for playing unique characters that defy tropes and rewards players for playing tropes. Players who play the same soldier fighter or sage wizard are rewarded, but players who want to make unique characters like a pirate wizards or merchant barbarians are punished. Heck, even backgrounds that make sense like wanting to be an acolyte zealot barbarian, are punished. This is horrendous and awful for any TTRPG to do. Playing weird and unique character concepts should be rewarded not punished. This feels more like a video game then a ttrpg
Final alternative to me, ignore the race and backgrounds from 2024 and use normal racial sets from previous version.. I bet as part of their digital addons they will have new background for purchase at some point.. And noticably missing Magic Initiate Bard Sorcerer Warlock
The new PHB just has rules for using older backgrounds (and species) because this is still one edition according to WOTC. So just find a pre-2024 background and use that because it allows you to add ability scores and an origin feat as you see fit (unless it has a feat already like Wildspacer from Spelljammer gets Tough) with no DM fiat. There's several dozen pre-existing background choices in 5E so far.
I know the neat thing is to try to be constructive and as positive as posible when critizing. And here comes the BUT: The way they handled this is just a plain NO THANKS. And now a real thank you for your videos.
I think the question for our table is whether Beyond has the customization option built in or if it will be very rigid at launch. We're starting a new campaign between the PHB and DMG releases so we can't really wait.
I "love" having to pick a specific background to play the build I want to play, having narrow options to decide things about my character's backstory for mechanical benefits really fits the idea of making whatever character you want to make. 😐
I’m putting together a warlock with the new rules, got Acolyte just for magic initiate (cleric)….but hurts that it doesn’t have DEX or CON. Better than that I need to be a healer or a musician, neither fits well on my build.
Honestly my most hated change in the entire phb. All backgrounds feel so tropey and inflexible. No room for creativity. All acolytes are like this, and all sailors are like that. And some of these backgrounds are so bad that you have to hamstring yourself if you have an interesting character concept that fits with that background. Only going to play with custom backgrounds, for sure.
The most annoying thing about this is that the book allows you to build your own background by choosing a legacy background. The *VAST* majority of characters are going to be heavily encouraged to pick older backgrounds since they’ll actually get to use the mechanics they want.
Honestly, I would just make every feat give a +1 to one stat if you pick it at Level 4+, but not give the +1 if you pick it at level 1, and then make every feat available at Level 1. This way, if you want a feat like, say, Crusher on your Battlesmith Artificer or for your sling-focused Ranger or Magic Stone user but you don't want the +1 STR/CON, you could take it at Level 1 and skip the attribute increase, and not feel like you've wasted something.
As a counter point, magic initiate is way more powerful for casters than martials. So with backgrounds restricting MI to caster-centric backgrounds, that isn't a very balance-oriented change
This helps none of that. The only thing that these backgrounds do is make building the character you want to play finicky and awkward. The origin feats are low powered enough already and dont need additional restrictions. You could allow a player to choose any combination of those feats with any ability scores they like and it would still be significantly less powerful than the custom lineage from 5e (which despite being more powerful never seemed to regularly break the game).
I don't see it. It is not like they balanced the top tier background feats by reducing how many skills they got in the background or something. So if the stats that align with the alert or musician feats work for your class you just get the bennies, but if they don't you get shifted into a worse feat choice.
These are painfully over-designed. The most fundamental aspect of design-any kind of design-is solving user/player problems. These backgrounds just make more problems. Epic fail.
The lack of customization from the get-go when we've already gotten used to doing such is a big step back. Starting a new campaign soon and I'm house ruling the players can mix and match choices for backgrounds to suit their builds and character ideas.
I miss the exclusive features the 2014 backgrounds gave to the character, it was the most interesting part of it. You could not have those with feats, and the character really felt like an Outlander, a Pirate or a Archeologist
@@thomasquesada7248 Outlander provides food for the entire party during travels. When playing with encumbrance rules, saves a LOT of weight in rations and food and water. No foraging checks! Playing an exploratory campaign, our party explored a lot of tombs and temples. The Archeologist feature automatically gave a lot of background info about these locations without the need of history checks. It is most role-play flavor? Yes. Weaker than a single feat? Absolutely. Still, it was nice to have this as suggestions for DMs and players to use in these situations or create their own.
I really dislike how reductive these backgrounds feel. The optimal choices mean you lean into clichéd choices (e.g. criminal rogue). GMs should ignore the WOTC council as removing custom backgrounds was a stupid decision.
I am certain you are right about the DMG guidelines, first because that was how it was in the UA, and second that is how this new PHB recommends adapting older 5E book Backgrounds.
For me, one of the fun parts of designing a character was choosing where I wanted my ability score increases, what I wanted for my background skills and background feature (now origin feat), and what I wanted for my tools/languages, and then coming up with a single narrative background that pulled all that together into something that made sense as a cohesive whole. If my DM doesn't allow me this flexibility in the future, I'm going to be *VERY* disappointed.
Even after homebrewing, having only 10 origin feats is going to be pretty boring after a while. I wish they would've made all feats available as origin feats but without the +1 ability modifier
So, when you get to 100k subs… is another one shot (with colby, dungeon dudes and maybe others) coming our way? Maybe playtesting the 2024 player rules? I sure hope so!
wow, what a trash system. really makes you feel bad for roleplaying a background, and getting hamstrung. why do this when tasha's loosened up the backgrounds to be whatever you want within some guidelines. say i wanted to play a barbarian that has come to be an angry boy because his monastery, where he grew up as an acolyte, was raided and destroyed. congratulations on the nothing from your background! at that point it is just a label.
The thing is, these are FAR too restrictive to be reasonable. It is like they gave 0 thought to having a reasonable spread of a abilities for character concepts.
The cynicql explanation of head-scratchingly nonsensical rules is that WotC is building in planned obsolescence to encourage people to buy later books that fix these bugs.
These aren’t Scores attached to races; these are scores attached to Backgrounds, which does make more sense. Having wholly flexible ability scores attached to custom lineages was a bit too anti-thematic. I like how now you can still be any race with the abilities you want, but your background choice has to match, like your life choices affected who your character is and what you want them to be.
@@thebigfriendlygoliath But then why do I still get better mechanical customization choices in the 2014 handbook? I had so many ways to make either very optimized builds or otherwise very bizarre builds that no longer are possible because of this dumb pigeon-holed system that only lets wizards either have appropriate stats or feats but never both.
@@theonlyone3532 there’s no denying there’s a mechanical nerf that comes with the thematic fidelity and power-creep regulation. From the response I wouldn’t be surprised if most people keep using the old system, at least until Custom Backgrounds are better spelled out in the new DMG, but I actually have a couple handfuls of new characters I’d like to try that I don’t think I necessarily would have considered under the old rules. That said, I do very much agree that pigeonholing players that severely can be counterproductive and anti-creative, especially with the Feats; I think allowing total starting feat flexibility is more than reasonable.
This is the only devastating part of the new PH... They took the poor versatility issue from races and put it in backgrounds (that is arguably worse because most of the players now will tend to have the same BACKSTORY if they play the same class). Realistic background options for every class are now 3-4 and there are a lot of conflicts with species traits etc. On top of that, there are at least 2 feat options (crafter, savage attacker) that are way worse than every other. That make your options even less... For fixing this poor versatility problem, first of all I think they should print at least 30 backgrounds instead of 16 and put more choices in them. 3 choices for your +2 ASI and the last +1 put it wherever you want. Furthermore they should put AT LEAST 2 choices for origin feat in every background and 3-4 choices for skill profs, to pick two of them. Last but not least I really don't like that they remove character traits, bonds, flaws etc because they were a really nice way, especially for new players, to take some ideas for backstories, character creation, personality etc. I think with these new background rules they bring back a big versatility problem, that TCoE had fixed...
My first 2024 campaign will be phb only. Honestly it's fun to make things work, perhaps less optimal builds but can lead to some interesting ideas. Easy on new dms too. However after the first campaign I'll be doing custom backgrounds for sure.
@@20storiesunder my group was gonna do that for the vecna campaign we are about to start but treemonks video about the 700%over base line build spooked the dm. Cant blame him for backtracking though , 2024 needed more time in the oven imo.
@@tomtom7955 Couldn't your dm just tweak or ban the one problem spell that causes this lol. Which is likely due to a missed typo. Y'all need to get off the white paper and play the dang game xD
@@20storiesunder thats exactly what were doing nerfing the elemental spell and no 2014 bladesinger, with more changes as needed im sure. But thats not playing the new phb RAW which was our original intention. Ive been running and playing games for a long time, since the tail end of 2e, i have no issue tweaking rules but none of my groups have played 5e exactly like the book bc we are all for the most part experienced ttrpg players and dms, so the thought was lets give wotc a chance this time before "fixing" stuff bc maybe its not broken, but alas that appears not to be the case.
@@tomtom7955 I don't know what to tell you, if 2-3 things needing to be tweaked from a system containing hundreds of class options is too big a hurdle to hop on over then I guess that's that. Sounds silly to me.
@@20storiesunder I went into this assuming good faith but i can see your still triggered bc I called you out for saying saying 10 background feats is confusing for new players... Thats okay you can purposely misconstrue what I'm saying, it doesn't make me look bad it makes you look foolish....
"Here's Dance Bard cause all Bards aren't musicians."
Backgrounds: "all entertainers are musicians."
Maybe your dancing isn't entertaining?
@@TreantmonksTemple Mine sure as heck is.
Aren't dancers musicians? What are they dancing to?
The dance group “Stomp” enters the chat.
Can't wait to make my clog dancing MMA fighting Orc Bard 😂😂😂! AKA Clark Griswald from European Vacation. "The Barovian Brawler"
All of my Wizards are Criminals now
😂 wizards really are criminals or scholars, there is no in between 😂
How many wizards committed crimes against humanity for us to end up with half the monster manual. Seems fitting.
Just have a setting where spellbooks are illegal. Et Voila, all wizards are criminals by definition.
It's more common than you'd think. Haven't you heard the tale of the cabal of wizards who tried to steal the OGL?
Based on my experience, they always have been 😅
The fact that artisans get the feature that makes purchasing mundane items cheaper while merchants do not is an enormous laugh.
I guess artisans shop around for supplies and merchants don't want to give a discount to a competitor? Maybe?
The Merchant Guilds probably agreed giving each other discounts was probably a bad business model.
Let crafters earn that labor fee I guess, lol
It's still strange to me that they didn't merge this backgrounds together - thematically this would work (and in 5e it was pretty much that).
Also Crafter should 100% give you +20% price to sell items too - that's basicaly how bargaining proficiency worked in old editions.
@@tnaivel WIth modern sensibilities this comment is hilarious, because that's exactly what businesses do nowadays, give each other massive discounts. It's beneficial for both sides because it lets them stifle competition and make more profits simultaneously. First rule of business, if you're planning to compete you're already losing.
I didn't think of that, that's funny!
I really feel like they should have listed the feats as "Suggested Feats", because this really pigeonholes so much and stifles creativity
This is my only real issue with the new backgrounds. As long as you can make a flavorful reason for a different feat, why not?
Yep. I agree those feats should only have been suggestions. Looks like they are going the cookie cutter way.
As if 5e people didn't pick the optimal 5e background for their class and forgot about background completely.
It’s better than the mess that is Aasimar which was just cobbled together and not given any sort of test among the player base.
@@dandereninja4750 I actually like what they did with the Aasimar. I felt they were losing out at having to choose between the Radiant and Necro aspects. Now it fits more closely as an Angelic figure. This will definitely be the class I choose.
Custom Backgrounds it is! Its just a goody bag really, the ASI spread, a tool, an origin feat, 2 skills, and 50 gp. Easy-peasy.
I wish there were more origin feats, though...
Custom REALLY should have been in the PHB, now you're gonna have DMs who just say no to it or won't know it exists.
@@AdellRedwinters oh, agreed, for sure. Like my games will be fine, but im going to have to spend another edition's worth of time explaining to people that yes, you *can* in fact use a custom background.
@@bigdream_dreambig there technically are. Strixhaven, Bigby's Glory of the Giants, Planscape, and Dragonlance have proto-origin feats that function in the same capacity. And im sure more will come that will get the official "origin" label.
@@AdellRedwinters It shouldn't just have been in the PHB, it should have been the defaut, like it was in one of the UA's. I really think they should have made the custom background the default, with what is basically some examples as backgrounds listed. But that is just my opinion.
• Free origin feat
• +2, +1 / +1, +1, +1
• 2 skills
• 1 tool proficiency
• 50 GP
• RP background decided as wished
Et voila, custom backgrounds. Wizards can hire me any day now. Anyway, this is how I'll exclusively be playing it at my tables & I'll suggest this to ever DM where I'm a player
Very good choice and thanks for the template too. I will only ever follow this at my tables as well.
Okay
Yes, this was the playtest version.
It's not hard. It seems like they didn't want everyone to just pick the same ASI, skills and feat.
@@broomemike1 But people will do this anyway. Idk just seems very reductive to make these garbage backgrounds to try to get players to try new things.
@@Nom2421 New players might get overwhelmed, its fine like this. Not like its that hard for the long time players to make it open ended.
FYI: The four missing combinations for Ability Scores are:
Strength, Constitution, Intelligence
Strength, Constitution, Charisma
Strength, Wisdom, Charisma
Dexterity, Intelligence, Charisma
You can build whatever background you want with these but in the sense of what we've already got, i thought of Laborer, Athlete, Cultist and Courtier in that order.
Thanks for doing this!
Also, interesting that Strength, Con, and Charisma is one of the missing combinations. This is particularly rough for paladins, since they are already MAD and now have no way to get their three stats to 16 at level 1 using only the existing backgrounds. A hidden nerf to the class that already got hit with a pretty staggering change.
So paladin and eldritch knight are sad, cause they MAD.
Why did they stop at 16 and not have all possible combinations? It really wouldn’t have been that much more work and just seems really weird to not have them. Especially with the eff you to Paladins by not having Str Con Cha and instead having Acolyte with the three mental stats
If you are building a paladin using point-buy, and you want all three stats to have the same value, a background with those attributes would save one point. Hardly a crippling blow, and if there was such a background and you couldn't live without that combination then it would mean every paladin you ever make would have to be from the same background. If you take a background that has two of those three, take a +2 in one of them and +1 in the other, then does it matter that it didn't have the other one available for you to not take? Especially if opening up your choice of backgrounds also opens up which origin feats you can take.
@@travisworks1791 i really feel like all these backgrounds are just sample and there isn’t a table that won’t let you mix and match, they are the most balanced mechanic to homebrew in the edition (not saying origin feats are, just backgrounds)
Why does Ermit gives a bonus to charisma?
"I've spent numerous years alone in the middle of nowhere only interacting with animals of course I'm good with people"
There's some potential here, especially with respect to the kinds of things Charisma saves tend to work for, mostly things like self assertion and confidence.
But, this is more a problem with how D&D has been pretty shaky and inconsistent on what Charisma is, and the weird relationship Charisma and Wisdom have in terms of thematics.
Yeah... I'm going to run custom backgrounds lol
For sure
Maybe I'm weird, but I'll enjoy playing with the puzzle pieces... for at least a few months. I can see it stifling creativity in the future
@@rehdfhdhj i too enjoy the puzzle pieces aspect. but, as a DM, im gonna let my players pick what they like.
I am 100% going to run custom backgrounds and also, because players often like to put things together themselves, I'm probably going to make a bunch of additional pre-made backgrounds for each of my homebrew worlds and send those to the players.
The one good thing about the way they're doing it is that they're formulaic, so it will be very easy to create new ones without worrying you're making something unbalanced.
Honestly...they are backgrounds, I think I'd let players outright custom craft them. Ask them to make it thematic rather than min-maxy, but just let them custom make it
So we went from all the wizards being gnomes to all wizards being criminals. Not the change I saw coming
The weird constraints on these backgrounds are gonna lead to some weird sudden trends. Suddenly a bunch of clerics grew up on a farm or in the middle of literally nowhere, and every wizard was breaking into vaults to steal their spellbook.
Thank you! Yeah, this leads to some pretty strange combos. Valor Bards who grew up in a circus, sailor monks, Noble clerics, etc.
@@DukeTrout I think lots of these are fun combos to think about, maybe a noble cleric is from a city like the vatican with some veey heavy religious culture throughout, but they're a noble and not an acolyte because they worked as an emissary for contact with other regions? Stuff like that is really interesting, but the weird constraints are ginna make certain combos weirdly common if you disallow customised backgrounds.
@@Cassapphic I feel it's gonna get old pretty fast
Agreed. Sure, it might be fun when the first Monk used to be a sailor, but when EVERY ONE of the next 10 monks was? The new background rules are bad and this is just one reason why (see my other comment on other ones), but at least WotC explicitly says you can flavor your background any way you want, so if I play a Monk without customization, my "Sailor" background will be flavored as a baby left on the monastery doorstep, or something similar.
Toril's deities derive power from the numbers of their faithful. When you consider the most common profession in a preindustrial society, it should make perfect sense that most clerics were born to farm families. Most people were born to farm families, because the overwhelming majority of families were farmers. Just because Chauntea doesn't throw weight around doesn't mean they're not the most powerful of the gods.
All this lack of customization just makes the Human species better than ever, since they get one extra origin feat (not tied to backgrounds - this is how you can easily get Magic Initiate (Wizard) ), one extra skill (also not tied to background - making up for the fact backgrounds will usually have one skill you'll be bad at because it's powered by a stat you might not increase), and one free Heroic Inspiration per long rest (which you can choose to use after you roll, unlike the new Lucky feat). It's weird that the playtest not only had background customization rules, but a customized background was the default option (I'd wager people were satisfied with that version). This is still at least workable, though, since most (impactful) origin feats appear in two different backgrounds.
I’ve been a real fan of the majority of the 5.24 changes so far, but this one really doesn’t work for me. I think they dropped then ball by not including customization options in this book. I adored the flexibility Tasha’s offered with ability scores and this feels like a real step backwards. I want to choose my boosted stats and my Feat!
Someone and I mean someone during this ENTIRE PROCESS had to say this was a horrible idea. Attaching ability scores and origin feats to backgrounds locks you into picking only certain backgrounds.....seriously.
Yeee prefer Pathfinder's idea to this one.
@@Amdor Looking at the backgrounds...I think Farmer is the ONLY one that increases Str & Con.....gonna be a lot of fighters with farming background.
It feels like the same problem they noticed with races from the old 5e rules, where people were only picking certain races for certain classes/multiclasses because they needed the right ability scores. Except now it's worse because they also provide specific feats. I don't like to be negative but I really don't know how this got published the way it is
The Party Monk: Yeah I was a sailor, our ship was called Moon. Why is everyone laughing?
why are you everywhere in crpgs and rpgs and dnd xD ?
@@IDontKnowYouWhoAreYou Good question. I should get a hobby.........wait.
@@Vagran lol
Why in the world does hermit get a bonus to charisma
And a noble gets a bonus to strength
@@sketchyfox7368 There are only 7 Str Origins, compared to 9 Dex/Wis or 8 Con/Int, so its best to not take away Str from Noble. The good aspect of it is that now Paladin and Noble have more Synergy and it feels appropriate
Hermit is not excusable they should change its name to Mender or Doctor
Someone at Wizards really loves the "skilled" feat - not only does it show up so often here, more or less killing otherwise decent backgrounds, but it's also 'recommended' for the human racial feat.
Skilled is decent for rogues (especially soulknifes) for out of combat, otherwise yeah, not great, but at least a half feat.
Is it really that bad though? Many classes get barely any skills, so getting 3 extra skills is far from a bad feat. It's just that alert and musician are so overpowered.
@Kitusser
I don't think it's that bad. I think it's just the people who are reluctant to take any option that doesn't boost damage saying that.
@@Lumpyrox1412 I honestly like it. I feels bad being a wizard with like 3 skill proficiencies.
I guess the usefulness of this depends on your gm though.
@@Kitusser yeah that’s totally a factor too
I can already tell this is going to be homebrewed to hell and back to be fixed.
I do like this change to backgrounds...for a player who has never built a character in dnd. Having all of that customization could be a lot for a first-time player to parse through. However, after a player's first time making a character, I would just tell them "Hey, these backgrounds are just guidelines. You can customize them however you want, including the stats, feat, skills, etc."
“tHiNk oF tHe NoObS” is a bad excuse for the awful changes in 2024. Clerics and sorcerers need their level 1 subclasses, because not all clerics are healers and gods are varied and you need to show that with at least first level domain features, and sorcerers need level 1 subclasses for things like divine soul so they can have divine spells and be a healer.
As for backgrounds, they absolutely should have custom background be in PHB. If you think that will somehow be an issue for newbies, then it can recommend new players not to use it. But those of us who aren’t new, or who have played for a couple months even, should have access to custom background without needing dm permissions
@@captainrelyk moving cleric and sorcerer subclasses to third level is more about balance than being "noob" friendly. They presented it as being a change so that new players don't have analysis paralysis when looking at 1st level, but we all know that it was just changed to nerf a 1st level dip. All I'm saying is it will be easier for a first time player to use the pre-made backgrounds, and for everyone else, including you and me, it will be easy to just make our own backgrounds, with or without the dmg. There is even a rule in the phb itself that, if you use an old background from a previous book, you give it whatever asi's you want and swap the ribbon feature for an origin feat. So right there printed in the phb is your custom backgrounds.
This is why you both present these premade packages and a custom option in the bare rules. Hiding it away in the dmg will only cause conflict and confusion
@@MaMastoast There is a custom option in the base rules, it's just not referred to as a custom option. If you use a background from a previous book, you can put your ASIs wherever you want, and you replace the ribbon feature with an origin feat.
@@MaMastoast you have 16 backgrounds with the same core features just changing around, anyone without the rules can move two gears on their brains to come up with the background they want
They could just have the template "1 origin feat, ASIs, 2 skills" and have the backgrounds as SUGGESTED backgrounds. NO ONE would be mad at that, but now we all have to talk with the DM about it beforehand.
I'm a little concerned for folks who *don't* talk to their DM during character creation. I mean, I'm sure the tables we've played at were different, but I've never seen the DM as some enemy that I need to trick or outwit when making my character, and when DMing, I'm usually trying my hardest to help the players feel like awesome heroes.
@@bearcat1868
I'm not saying I want to surprise my DM. I just don't like to ask my DM for any favors and want to do things by the book.
If I want to use this rule set this is a favor I have to ask.
The original custom background was also an optional rule that the DM needed to allow. That and this would both just be session 0 things at most tables.
@@devontyler2504 in 2014. Custom background was not an optional rule. it was on the same level as prewritten backgrounds.
This feels kind of dumb. I was only able to rationalize removing stats from race because it would allow more options, but now it's all my fighters are farmers instead of all my fighters are half orcs, but for the same reason.
Yes, I think it wasn't about removing them from race for added flexibility. It was a move to insist that Nurture>nature.
@@broomemike1 which could be argued is kind of ridiculous when you're directly comparing different species
@@elliotbryant3459 Except they aren't really different species since they can and do procreate with each other.
@@agilemind6241 Do they though? Outside of elf, orc and tiefling? Certainly seems not really possible with autognomes, thri-kreen, plasmoids, warforged, centaurs... you see where I'm going with this. Also the designers call these different selections "Species", so it's kind of difficult to argue that they're not in fact different species.
>kind of
No, this is entirely dumb
I really anticipated each background giving a choice between two origin feats. This way really shoehorns in which backgrounds will be used most. Time to play with a party of Smooth Criminals.
Right, and no cleric would ever pick Acolyte since why would you want magic initiate: cleric if you're a cleric? Sage is the best option for most clerics
@@rogen8094 For (essentially) an extra first level slot. Not the best choice, but not horrible. That said, yes, Sage is just better, and the 'free first level slot' would apply more to Sage Wizards or Guide Druids than Acolyte Clerics - Sage and Guide at least has useful stat spreads.
"Takes the Acolyte background"
My new PC: And they were raised by wolves, and have lived in the wilderness ever since.
DM: 'Why acolyte though?'
Me: '...because mechanics."
DM: '...'
Three monks meet eachother and reflect on how weird it is that they're all sailors
They are an acolyte trained by the wolves, worshiping an unknown moon deity. They have a strange fondness for rabbits, cheese, and conspiracy theories for some reason.
@@z-leigh6554 Can't wait for all my players to come up with exactly these sort of contrived backstories.
The RAW backrounds lapse right back into the illusion of choice you spoke of earlier
I really hate this change! Custom backgrounds should have stayed in the PHB
I’m definitely leaning towards custom backgrounds if a player wants them.
A simple +2 +1 or 3x +1, pick an origin feat, pick 2 skills, pick a tool, get 50 gp. Make a cohesive backstory that explains your choices.
Literally what the wizards dev team did
@@kevoreilly6557 KEKW
Yay! Catching this within the first half hour after it's made public!
Good morning Chris! I really love your videos on the new book because you're showing us the mechanics where a lot of people are giving general overviews!
All of your hard work is so appreciated, much love! 💜 have a great weekend and I hope your family time was awesome!
Thank you! Yes, I had a great visit with family.
As I understand it, you can technically customize backgrounds by selecting an old background not in the 2024 PHB. If you do this, you assign your +2 bonus to any one attribute and your +1 to a second attribute. Or you can do a +1 to three different attributes. Then you select any origin feat that you would like, unless the old background provides you with a starting feat already. I could be wrong, but I seem to recollect Jeremy Crawford mentioning this alternative.
Honestly I hate this new system. If old characters felt restrictive because of racial stat bonuses if you didn't allow the Tasha's customized rule, this feels worse. Some of these backgrounds have weird ability spreads and as you have mentioned, not all the original feats were made equal. If I was considering the 2024 rules before, this has killed them for me.
I figure DMs who have optimizers as players might have to supervise a tiny bit of customization, but even optimizers aren’t getting anything super insane from background optimization (unless the whole party optimizes the hell out of the options). I feel like most groups can probably allow for complete customization without issue
Alright I think I'll pick 1 of the old backgrounds like 1 from Strixhaven or Ravnica then.
Agree. None of the starting feats are so good that it will break a build
@@jugglejunk that's not a custom background. Custom Background means constructing a background using the Custom Background template/rules. You have "slots", like one skill choice, one origin feat slot, set ability score increases etc.
@@floofzykitty5072 there are some guidelines for porting over old backgrounds this would most definitely cover Strixhaven thoo the Ravnica ones are way more powerful if you give them a feat on top of the extra spells known
With what's presented so far, I think this is absolutely true. When new books start coming out with new backgrounds and new origin feats to pick from, it might be good for the DM to be able to grab the reigns a little bit.
So... We're gonna have nothing but seafaring monks and criminal wizards. Kinda lame.
Is there no Vehicle (Land or Sea) proficiency, because Sailor, Merchant, and Wayfarer should have them.
A thought: Scribe’s a solid choice for an Eldritch Knight or Psi Warrior going with finesse weapons. Extra skills plays nicely with Tactical Mind, as the proficiency bump is likely to leave you closer to success when you use the feature, so you won’t have to roll as high to turn failure to success, and Calligrapher’s supplies mean scroll scribing. The other hidden gem here is Guide, because you can get Shillelagh with INT on your Eldritch Knight. And that is tempting.
Eldritch Knight with Shillelagh is the *first* character I started making with this new book. I'm really excited to see how it plays out in a group.
@@WakkowolfI’m playing an EK based a bit off of my first 5e pc, who was also an EK. Wanna see how the lifting of school restrictions and the new war magic play in practice. I’m going Scribe though because I want to dual wield with the new dual wielding. Do a zillion attacks
Amazing that backgrounds are now more restrictive than races were in 2014.
Three options for ASIs is better for your primaries, though. Just try being a Dragonborn Cleric of Bahamut. 15 WIS is rough when you really wanted to take War Caster at level 4.
THIS so much.. this is one of the worst thing in the new book BY FAR.
@@AnaseSkyrider If that Cleric was an Acolyte, then all but a +2 to WIS are pretty much useless to him.
A dragonborn cleric can, at least, bonk pretty hard, and many Cleric spells (especially buffs and heals) don't really care about WIS anyway.
To be fair, I give everyone a bonus feat at level 1 at my table, specifically because there are so many character concepts that desperately need a specific feat to work.
@@theodorehunter4765 I mean, not really. He was a Life Cleric, so not even martial weapons. No fighting style. No real weapon feats to increase damage. Doesn't really bonk hard.
Does anyone else feel that the Backgrounds listed really push potential characters into cookie-cutter archetypes? I'm having a similar reaction to this as I had to the 4E Essentials range, where they took a system that had begun to really open up character options with the xxxx Power books, and brought it crashing back down to super vanilla concepts.
I hope I'm wrong and the customising rules are as flexible as Treantmonk suspects, but that's my sense.
I’m getting a lot of 4e vibes from some of these parts of 2024, which really irks me.
I don't mind the new backgrounds, But I would have prefered they made at least 2 different backgrounds for each feat
I like the idea of what they were going for with backgrounds, but it missed the mark. They solved the race/class combo issue with Tasha's, and then recreated the exact same problem with backgrounds in 2024!
And to make matters worse, this limitation significantly limits the backstories your players can make for their character. Arrrrggghhhhh.
arguably every monk grew up on the high seas now LOL
Exactly! This is a huge step backward in what they were supposedly trying to achieve. Having to coordinate with other players about what classes everybody was playing was one thing, and you could have different subclasses or something if you both really wanted to play the same class. But now, you also have to check what backgrounds everybody's using, because you could literally have redundant feats, skill proficiencies, and tool proficiencies, that you cannot customize or swap. And the backgrounds are tied to ability scores too, so it really limits what backgrounds are feasible for your character. Just an awful system.
But hey, this gives them room to add more backgrounds later and charge you $2 each for them. Microtransactions, baby!
Players can allways invent what ever backround story they want…
So it does not limit at all…
This is good for new players. Simple, chose what ever backround sounds good and after that make changes to you character sheet and you are good to go!
Flavor is free. If you don't like the story of a background, then change it.
@@ilovethelegend he was a sailor in the Village People.
This is so annoying. They literally took one of the worst parts of the 2014 rules that THEY THEMSELVES got rid of in Tasha’s, and brought it back worse than ever- just slapped onto backgrounds this time instead of race. I hate this so much.
If my group uses the new rules, we will definitely take these piecemeal. Everything will be swappable.
Also, the Dungeon Dudes talked about the removal of the TBIFs (Traits, Bonds, Ideals, Flaws), which I liked to have on my sheet, even if I typically made my own.
it is good to note in the new phb theres a sidebar about using past backgrounds and races and how you simply choose what you want for asi, skills and feat and also get the background's past feature
so its technically more powerful and customizable to just use past backgrounds
RAW this makes humans stronger.
2014 your feat choice was among the best feats in the game. Origin feats are weak in comparison so being able to choose one is not nearly as powerful.
Monk with tavern brawler & grappler is gonna be crazy
Too bad you gotta be a sailor to do that.
@@caosisaac Yeah they basically forced monks to be sailors at this point. "My uhh, monastery is a boat. Yeah..."
@@3of6mylovebe creative
Moron
@@caosisaac You could also go Human, since they get an additional origin feat of their choice. As an example, be a Human Monk, take Tavern Brawler for your Human feat, Guide as your background, take whichever attribute buffs you want since Dex/Con/Wis is all good for Monks, grab your two favorite Druid cantrips and favorite level 1 Druid spell, and you're off to a pretty good start.
@@CivilWarMan that's still forcing me to be a guide though; and a human on top of that. My current 2024 monk is an aasimar acolyte 4 elements monk that worships talos and shows devotion to the god of storms and destruction through combat. So reformatting to fit the new bg i'd be losing my dex bonuses and replacing tavern brawler for magic initiate unless i also changed my race to human. Either way my current character cannot exist with these rules when it was perfectly viable in the playtest.
I'm pretty sure I saw a video that had JC say that you could pick an old background and you just choose a +2 and +1 or 3 +1 stat improvements and an origin feat. This should be pretty customisable, maybe even more customisable than custom origin background depending on what you want.
It's just objectively better than what they presented in the 2024 PHB. With pretty artwork taking up page space too.
Except JC also said if it was updated in 2024, we HAVE to use it. So my zealot barbarian HAS to use 2024 acolyte instead of 2014 acolyte
Yes, as long as older material is used, you can just pick an old background and customize it.
So then what, they expect players to sift through multiple PHBs and compare the new 2024 backgrounds versus the old 2014 ones in case they want to customize? Why not just make all of the backgrounds customizable?
By default, always pick the knight background. You get to pick your origin, feat, your stats, and have three NPCs.
Worst part of this new phb.
I agree! I don’t know why they didn’t add custom backgrounds. Everything else is more customizable, but they went backwards here
Naaah I'm loving it. So much flavour from the backgrounds
@@airone8893seems like an easy homebrew. Pick background but decouple feat and ability score. Feel like most tables will end up doing this.
@20storiesunder They removed everything that was flavour from the Background aside the names?
The flavour is in the little ribbon abilities, not mechanics. 🤔
Similar issue with the Ranger.
The mechanics are fine, most of the weak ribbon abilities that made the Ranger's flavour as a class are gone, "replaced" by Spells.
@@zTom_ Where's the ranger coming from, we're talking about the backgrounds..
Bad idea on steroids.
I could probably live with the background effecting feats OR ability scores. But both is too much.
I appreciate the clear intro and nuances about how we can and should be able to customize backgrounds, notably to fit a different world, culture, backstory, etc.
The way backgrounds work now, I like that.
The way it has worked with the backgrounds presented... nope, not a fan. This is too constraining.
I know there will be rules on modifying it in the DMG, but that fells like something that should have been in the PHB, since it is a *player* issue.
Personally, I've already talked with my DM, and when/if (yeah, still an IF) we try out the new stuff in a campaign I'll be playing a Dancer Bard, with background of 'Shrine Maiden.' Fits in with the Acolyte, right? Yeah, mostly, except it is important to the character that she was in a temple to the goddess Mielikki (forests), and very must wasn't a *priestess,* as a shrine maiden she was a glorified maid who cleaned the temple, prepared food, and only participated in the rituals as a dancer. Hence 'magic initiate Druid' instead of 'Magic Initiate Cleric.'
Yeah these suck. They suck hard. They may as well have left these pages in the book blank because I will never use these at my table, nor join a table that enforces them.
If a DM insists on using these I will simply not join their games, and I will encourage others not to join their games. These are so anti-fun and make creativity and optimization go away (and not even particularly powerful optimization!) Why would a wizard that only ever trains to be a wizard not be able to put points into relevant scores like dexterity and also get the only feat for the "wizard" class? Was really hoping that rules as written would finally not need heavy doses of home-brew/supplementary books to make core-features work.
To be clear, I don't care if a player CHOOSES to use them, or a dungeon master ALLOWS for their use, but if someone ENFORCES their use then that's "ew, gross, dont touch me with it".
Nice job getting rid of those pesky "mother may I" -rules.
I actually wish backgrounds didn’t matter for optimization and we could go back to having Roleplay centric features. How is an acolyte guaranteed to get lodging at a temple now? How is a sage supposed to know where to find information if they fail to recall knowledge? How is a noble supposed to be able to meet with other nobles
In games I DM, I will just give players BOTH their origin feat AND the 2014 background feature of their choice. More fun, more flavor, and it comes up rarely so it's not in any way overpowered.
Temples aren't any less inclined to shelter their marketing team, nobles aren't going to forget how much they dislike having to spend so much time with one another or how gossip is the only thing that redeems it.
You may simply want to make a note for yourself to the effect that if the sage you're consulting isn't aware of libraries, you don't need a different background so much as you need a different sage.
It was so easy to make that template you made in the end as RAW and then use this 16 as just quick examples. They just had to balance the origin feats against each other, not even against all feats.
Its beyond me why make such a closed design when an open design would be way better and maybe even easier.
Thanks for the video Chris.
Imho, ASI, if not in the species, should be in the classes, not in the backgrounds.
Another thing: it would have been nice to have the chance to choose between two different origin feats in each of the backgrounds.
🤷🏻♂️
There's 20 possible permutations of 3 attributes, but there are only 16 backgrounds.
It's missing backgrounds for (STR/CON/INT), (STR/CON/CHA), (STR/WIS/CHA), and (DEX/INT/CHA).
My OCD hates this a lot.
You are not alone. I was literally just about to open a spreadsheet to figure out exactly this. For once, I'm glad I read the comment section first.
This.
Cries in Paladin
Str/con/int and str/con/cha is 100% missing on purpose as a balance measure
Kind of crazy. Hard to imagine everyone not ignoring the ability scores on these. I'm assuming it's so that there's a lot of room for new backgrounds, and also just power creep general.
This is a garbage change. Pigeonholing players into only ever picking certain backgrounds and playstyles is stupid. Hiding behind "flavor is free." Is stupid. Oh cool I'm a fathomless warlock but I wasn't a sailor. I was a random merchant mechanically.
On top of that, I can't wait to not get Magic Initiate on Arcane Trickster or Eldritch knight, AKA THE CLASSES WHO WANT IT.
Just let us do any stat with any background
They minimized "optimal stat picks" with tashas and they backpedaled
Atypical character archtypes are great, dont punish us for them
Mechanical backgrounds couldn't be a way of hiding ability score improvements behind a paywall, in random loot boxes. That's not the future of a VVT, right?
I've thought it over and concluded that each background should offer a choice of two or three origin feats.
I don't like how this works...
It's going to funnel *ALL* characters into the handful of backgrounds with good Feats...
I think I'm gonna give the starting Feats and Attribute Bonuses the Tasha's Treatment, and let them go anywhere...
I can't wait to pick farmer.
Yeah, I think I hate tying the Ability Score boosts to the Backgrounds. And also tying Origin Feats to the Backgrounds. Looks like it's custom Backgrounds or bust.
I'll just say, just put 3 point where you want (if you give a reason) takes that skills and choose a Origin feat
With all the push to "diversify" the species, it seems odd to me that they have gotten so rigid on the backgrounds by locking a single feat into each background. For example, locking the "Healer" into the "Hermit" feat--feels like there could be a few other likely thematic matches for a lone hermit out in the woods living with nature (e.g. Magic Initiate Druid among others). Also, some of them seem to "fight" what should be a natural combination. A studious Wizard who has read everything he could find about the lost city of Magicopolis would seem to be a natural fit for Sage... but by forcing that background to take "Magic Initiate: Wizard" disincentives that choice. So the most "studious" class is unlikely to take the most academically oriented background. I understand they wanted to direct the "theme" or "feel" of backgrounds, but given all the push to open up and diversify certain aspects of character creation they have gotten oddly stingy here.
Seems they wanted to have clear, easy to use for newer player options for onboarding, even if making custom options isn't a big problem
They always had that, even in the 2014 PHB. Every new player I've ever played with just chose a pre-made background, and didn't even know you could customize them because they didn't read that section of the book.
The new backgrounds are horrible. It reintroduced the problem from before TCOE. It’s also limited, why can’t there be sages who study nature or religion, or entertainers who entertain using illusions or sword juggling instead of music?
It also punishes players for playing unique characters that defy tropes and rewards players for playing tropes. Players who play the same soldier fighter or sage wizard are rewarded, but players who want to make unique characters like a pirate wizards or merchant barbarians are punished. Heck, even backgrounds that make sense like wanting to be an acolyte zealot barbarian, are punished. This is horrendous and awful for any TTRPG to do. Playing weird and unique character concepts should be rewarded not punished. This feels more like a video game then a ttrpg
Mechant should get the crafter feat. Mechanically its the only one that really makes sense for that discount.
Final alternative to me, ignore the race and backgrounds from 2024 and use normal racial sets from previous version.. I bet as part of their digital addons they will have new background for purchase at some point.. And noticably missing Magic Initiate Bard Sorcerer Warlock
The new PHB just has rules for using older backgrounds (and species) because this is still one edition according to WOTC. So just find a pre-2024 background and use that because it allows you to add ability scores and an origin feat as you see fit (unless it has a feat already like Wildspacer from Spelljammer gets Tough) with no DM fiat. There's several dozen pre-existing background choices in 5E so far.
That's what I was thinking too, that sidebar basically allows fully customized backgrounds.
I know the neat thing is to try to be constructive and as positive as posible when critizing. And here comes the BUT: The way they handled this is just a plain NO THANKS. And now a real thank you for your videos.
I think the question for our table is whether Beyond has the customization option built in or if it will be very rigid at launch. We're starting a new campaign between the PHB and DMG releases so we can't really wait.
I "love" having to pick a specific background to play the build I want to play, having narrow options to decide things about my character's backstory for mechanical benefits really fits the idea of making whatever character you want to make.
😐
I’m putting together a warlock with the new rules, got Acolyte just for magic initiate (cleric)….but hurts that it doesn’t have DEX or CON.
Better than that I need to be a healer or a musician, neither fits well on my build.
Honestly my most hated change in the entire phb. All backgrounds feel so tropey and inflexible. No room for creativity. All acolytes are like this, and all sailors are like that. And some of these backgrounds are so bad that you have to hamstring yourself if you have an interesting character concept that fits with that background.
Only going to play with custom backgrounds, for sure.
The most annoying thing about this is that the book allows you to build your own background by choosing a legacy background. The *VAST* majority of characters are going to be heavily encouraged to pick older backgrounds since they’ll actually get to use the mechanics they want.
Criminal wizard gang rise up.
All humans, grab your guitars, and let's take over the world!
I actually think this helps balance the feat-power creep we were getting from a free feat + feats being all half feats.
Honestly, I would just make every feat give a +1 to one stat if you pick it at Level 4+, but not give the +1 if you pick it at level 1, and then make every feat available at Level 1.
This way, if you want a feat like, say, Crusher on your Battlesmith Artificer or for your sling-focused Ranger or Magic Stone user but you don't want the +1 STR/CON, you could take it at Level 1 and skip the attribute increase, and not feel like you've wasted something.
@@TheRealmDrifterIf all the feats are included, even pre 2024 I bet it would be unbalanced as Heck.
As a counter point, magic initiate is way more powerful for casters than martials. So with backgrounds restricting MI to caster-centric backgrounds, that isn't a very balance-oriented change
This helps none of that. The only thing that these backgrounds do is make building the character you want to play finicky and awkward.
The origin feats are low powered enough already and dont need additional restrictions. You could allow a player to choose any combination of those feats with any ability scores they like and it would still be significantly less powerful than the custom lineage from 5e (which despite being more powerful never seemed to regularly break the game).
I don't see it. It is not like they balanced the top tier background feats by reducing how many skills they got in the background or something. So if the stats that align with the alert or musician feats work for your class you just get the bennies, but if they don't you get shifted into a worse feat choice.
Pre-build background have the same place as pre-generated characters. It's an option, but should not be the default
These are painfully over-designed. The most fundamental aspect of design-any kind of design-is solving user/player problems. These backgrounds just make more problems. Epic fail.
Definitely not spending my money on this shite. No offense. Thank you for the review, though!
The lack of customization from the get-go when we've already gotten used to doing such is a big step back. Starting a new campaign soon and I'm house ruling the players can mix and match choices for backgrounds to suit their builds and character ideas.
Why do hermits get a bonus to charisma? They are defined by their lack of social interaction.
Acolyte is good for an Abjuration Wizard. You get access to a healing spell and you want your wisdom as a back up save.
So every player in your party is now going to be a criminal or an entertainer lol What a joke!
I miss the exclusive features the 2014 backgrounds gave to the character, it was the most interesting part of it.
You could not have those with feats, and the character really felt like an Outlander, a Pirate or a Archeologist
Yup. Very sad to see they've basically watered down all the flavour in the new books.
I'm gonna allow players to pick a (legacy) background feature.
Nah they were completely useless and the vast majority of the time just allowed you to do something you could have just roleplayed
I think some players were able to make really good RP use out of these, but most just were left idle on the character sheet.
@@thomasquesada7248 Outlander provides food for the entire party during travels. When playing with encumbrance rules, saves a LOT of weight in rations and food and water. No foraging checks!
Playing an exploratory campaign, our party explored a lot of tombs and temples. The Archeologist feature automatically gave a lot of background info about these locations without the need of history checks.
It is most role-play flavor? Yes. Weaker than a single feat? Absolutely. Still, it was nice to have this as suggestions for DMs and players to use in these situations or create their own.
Why does an artisan get a 20% discount on purchases but not a merchant?
Charlatan, noble, and scribe all give skilled feat? How boring!
Skilled seemed to be "We don't know what feat fits, so put in skilled."
I really dislike how reductive these backgrounds feel. The optimal choices mean you lean into clichéd choices (e.g. criminal rogue). GMs should ignore the WOTC council as removing custom backgrounds was a stupid decision.
Not only that... These backgrounds feel like they create traps for new players?
I am certain you are right about the DMG guidelines, first because that was how it was in the UA, and second that is how this new PHB recommends adapting older 5E book Backgrounds.
I realise they kinda promised a custom option in the dmg, but tying everything together in the core rules like this is a major step backwards imo
For me, one of the fun parts of designing a character was choosing where I wanted my ability score increases, what I wanted for my background skills and background feature (now origin feat), and what I wanted for my tools/languages, and then coming up with a single narrative background that pulled all that together into something that made sense as a cohesive whole. If my DM doesn't allow me this flexibility in the future, I'm going to be *VERY* disappointed.
Even after homebrewing, having only 10 origin feats is going to be pretty boring after a while. I wish they would've made all feats available as origin feats but without the +1 ability modifier
That's not a bad house rule.
So, when you get to 100k subs… is another one shot (with colby, dungeon dudes and maybe others) coming our way?
Maybe playtesting the 2024 player rules? I sure hope so!
wow, what a trash system. really makes you feel bad for roleplaying a background, and getting hamstrung. why do this when tasha's loosened up the backgrounds to be whatever you want within some guidelines. say i wanted to play a barbarian that has come to be an angry boy because his monastery, where he grew up as an acolyte, was raided and destroyed. congratulations on the nothing from your background! at that point it is just a label.
Their want to force you to buy new backgrounds as they release them. That's literally the only reason, profit.
All background should have given an option of two feats, pick one. Even if some of them is Tough AND X. Obviously I'll allow my players to do custom.
The thing is, these are FAR too restrictive to be reasonable. It is like they gave 0 thought to having a reasonable spread of a abilities for character concepts.
The cynicql explanation of head-scratchingly nonsensical rules is that WotC is building in planned obsolescence to encourage people to buy later books that fix these bugs.
So disappointed with this change - was a big fan of the scores (and feats) being removed from races in Tashas and this feels like a step backwards...
These aren’t Scores attached to races; these are scores attached to Backgrounds, which does make more sense. Having wholly flexible ability scores attached to custom lineages was a bit too anti-thematic. I like how now you can still be any race with the abilities you want, but your background choice has to match, like your life choices affected who your character is and what you want them to be.
@@thebigfriendlygoliath But then why do I still get better mechanical customization choices in the 2014 handbook? I had so many ways to make either very optimized builds or otherwise very bizarre builds that no longer are possible because of this dumb pigeon-holed system that only lets wizards either have appropriate stats or feats but never both.
@@theonlyone3532 there’s no denying there’s a mechanical nerf that comes with the thematic fidelity and power-creep regulation. From the response I wouldn’t be surprised if most people keep using the old system, at least until Custom Backgrounds are better spelled out in the new DMG, but I actually have a couple handfuls of new characters I’d like to try that I don’t think I necessarily would have considered under the old rules. That said, I do very much agree that pigeonholing players that severely can be counterproductive and anti-creative, especially with the Feats; I think allowing total starting feat flexibility is more than reasonable.
This is the only devastating part of the new PH... They took the poor versatility issue from races and put it in backgrounds (that is arguably worse because most of the players now will tend to have the same BACKSTORY if they play the same class).
Realistic background options for every class are now 3-4 and there are a lot of conflicts with species traits etc. On top of that, there are at least 2 feat options (crafter, savage attacker) that are way worse than every other. That make your options even less...
For fixing this poor versatility problem, first of all I think they should print at least 30 backgrounds instead of 16 and put more choices in them. 3 choices for your +2 ASI and the last +1 put it wherever you want. Furthermore they should put AT LEAST 2 choices for origin feat in every background and 3-4 choices for skill profs, to pick two of them.
Last but not least I really don't like that they remove character traits, bonds, flaws etc because they were a really nice way, especially for new players, to take some ideas for backstories, character creation, personality etc.
I think with these new background rules they bring back a big versatility problem, that TCoE had fixed...
My first 2024 campaign will be phb only. Honestly it's fun to make things work, perhaps less optimal builds but can lead to some interesting ideas. Easy on new dms too.
However after the first campaign I'll be doing custom backgrounds for sure.
@@20storiesunder my group was gonna do that for the vecna campaign we are about to start but treemonks video about the 700%over base line build spooked the dm. Cant blame him for backtracking though , 2024 needed more time in the oven imo.
@@tomtom7955 Couldn't your dm just tweak or ban the one problem spell that causes this lol. Which is likely due to a missed typo.
Y'all need to get off the white paper and play the dang game xD
@@20storiesunder thats exactly what were doing nerfing the elemental spell and no 2014 bladesinger, with more changes as needed im sure. But thats not playing the new phb RAW which was our original intention. Ive been running and playing games for a long time, since the tail end of 2e, i have no issue tweaking rules but none of my groups have played 5e exactly like the book bc we are all for the most part experienced ttrpg players and dms, so the thought was lets give wotc a chance this time before "fixing" stuff bc maybe its not broken, but alas that appears not to be the case.
@@tomtom7955 I don't know what to tell you, if 2-3 things needing to be tweaked from a system containing hundreds of class options is too big a hurdle to hop on over then I guess that's that.
Sounds silly to me.
@@20storiesunder I went into this assuming good faith but i can see your still triggered bc I called you out for saying saying 10 background feats is confusing for new players... Thats okay you can purposely misconstrue what I'm saying, it doesn't make me look bad it makes you look foolish....
So are races just meaningless now? 🤨