when replacing the turbos on your N54 you should always replace the oil lines to your turbos, the lines will over time get restricted, if not changed you can starve the turbos of oil. you should also always inspect and check for exessive play in the shaft of your new turbos before installing. one of the 17t turbos i received was junk and i had to fight to get them to replace it, didnt take no for an answer. the seller wanted me to still install it and give it a try. the wheel was hitting the housing, had to file a claim to get the seller to take it back.
I went with v4 11 blades and VRSF relocated inlets and outlets. I’ve even purchased OEM wastegate actuators because I simply don’t trust VIV hardware. I just know that the v4 manifold design is superior to the v3 and believe it would be good for the platform to test and contribute to the knowledge pool for those looking to make power on a “budget”. I’ll be installing everything soon and will document the entire process on my channel along with draggy info. Stay tuned! Thanks for all you do Andrew!
@@ZeroTo60Tube the OEM wastegates we’re about $40 USD each from FCP Euro and the 19t v4 11 blades retail on eBay for about $1800 USD. I’ll be sure to document everything on my channel starting from individual product unboxing, install, and review!
RB GF 17T's on my 08 e92 335xi making 640whp. Spool very well. Positive boost comes in just after 2000 rpms and have the full 27 psi at 4000 rpms. If you floor the car at 2500 rpms, MHD logs show 3 psi of boost by the time your foot is flat. Very responsive in my opinion.
@@n54_GOAT just full bolt ons and all maintenance fully up to date (aka index 12's etc) outside of that it's the mentioned turbos from Rob Beck, fuelit 650+ lpfp and a throttle body injection plate with a 250cc and a 500cc fuel injector that comes on at 10 an 20 psi. Daily driven an abused. Just change the oil. 😊
Rob makes some great stuff, really the only proven solution for upgraded twins imo. The Twos (15T) are an amazing DD turbo, mine are making right under 500whp on a conservative 93 tune and hit full 21psi at 2800. The lag is there if you are used to stockers, but they really don't run out of steam up top
@@deadlyassassin240 I plan to get the Rb twos … Rob said to wire him the money and do business through email. Is this trustworthy? You think the 2 plus would fit in 535xi 2008?
feedback on those China turbos .some of the newer versions seem to not make boost past 5-6 k, likely due to inlets collapsing , worse with a stock filter box
Vivs inlets are an issue on 1 series ,there is less clearance in between firewall and block specially on automatics ,i always use a relocation kit when doing 1 series since I learned that it was an issue,never had that issue on 3 series ,also laggy 19t = shitty wastegates from viv ,im making it a common practice to order new ones from fcpeuro and that solves the issue ,but main issue is the volute on the 19ts ,too small ,hence the reason i asked viv to make the v4s ,also viv has been around for a long time ,i bought their turbos for the first time im 2018 but not until 2020 I installed them on my car !!!
@BMW1M use the stiffer inlet then ,it should resolve your issue ,also keep in mind back pressure is a know factor on these turbos ,over 500whp the back pressure figures are almost 2 to 1 as you climb up the range of power ,(reason zero to 60 cooled their engine), the flow max turbos resolved that issu lowering it to less than 1/1 factor making it more efficient 😉
I ran my 19t 6+6 V3s for about 2 years (summer + winter) 30k km or so. Had no issues hitting boost, no smoke. Maybe I just got lucky but I also only ran them at about 20psi during their life in my car.
Thanks for keeping the content going with all going on don’t know if this will help with the current issues but Turbo lab America on UA-cam rebuilds tubos for a living and has found some questionable issues with several different 17t’s in which in his opinion contributed to premature failures also mentions taking a few steps to making them last a lot longer like I said I don’t know if this would help this situation but might be worth checking out
I have watched his videos on them and so I totally inspected my 17t's when I got them for the very troubles he was pointing out. I only got mine just over two months ago and I'm thinking that VIV or the manufacturer whomever they are saw that too and listened as none of the troubles were there on mine and it even looked like they had made sure they weren't there. IMHO.
Andrew, in the dawn of MHD antilag, I found a video from Street FX channel explaining brake boosting. Was looking to learn more about it and found that vid lower on the search list, didn't know you were involved and was drawn in by the informative title. Once I heard your intro I was thrilled. The vid told me exactly what I wanted to know and was well presented. Just wanted to thank you for your commitment, I know times are tough for you right now but I'd like to think that it is slowly improving. Creating an account to buy you a coffee right now. Cheers from New England
I've been around the automotive "block" thats for sure...... :P Hopefully find somewhere to live on that block soon. Thanks for your support and kinds words. It does not go un noticed.
I have been running Robs Game finishers 17ts for about 16k miles making 500whp (dynojet) on only 15psi. This is done on 93 octane as well but will definitely see what they can do with port injection and the reflex plus soon.
How much did you pay for the game finishers if you don’t mind me asking. Seems to be the best route because the China turbos aren’t proven to higher mileage
Rob has been in the game longer than anyone else. His new turbos are the good. The RBS I had were quite an old design and where the Re manufactured ones. Would like to the gf in the flesh
@@ZeroTo60Tube you see him in the forums a lot but you find more UA-cam content on pure turbos. I’d like to see UA-cam content based on RB turbos, dyno runs and follow ups🙏🏾
my 19t are also a bit laggy. boosting from low but full boost not until 4000rpms. I did find with my NTT outlets they are leaky as and I cannot get get the system to hold pressure when trying a boost leak. I have also been doing everything for 8 months +. changed a heap. kinda sucks. 6+6 blades 19t
just this afternoon 20.20 psi in 3rd gear pull at 3858 rpm . wastegate is dropping at this rpm so tune needs some tweaks to keep it closed and reach higher but that's the best I have ever had so far.
I got the 17t from ViV back in 2020 after seeing your channel. They have held up great so far I’ve had them on for over a year (20,000km) running around 24 psi with vrsf inlets and JSR tune. Pretty good bang for your buck if they don’t blow up lol
335is N54 DCT here, my DAW 19T come on around 2800 RPM and I have beat on them 1/4 and half Mile for 3 years and still holding boost and running great!
@BMW1M I have never tracked the car and only driven it on nice days. I should state that I change the oil in this car about every 1500 miles or about 2400 KM. Anyway love your car and want to see more of it on the channel. Peace from the USA .
10:25 spooling characteristics are different . More blades equals faster spooling down low but drop off in horsepower up top, while less blades means more lag down low, but extra horsepower up top. I’d say I’ve seen high resolution photos of many after market inlets and the spacing of them differ. Not sure that it would make much of a difference in the end that there were some scrapes on the housings versus new ones that have much more spacing between the blade and housing . Just my opinion.
Runing 19T's 6+6 VIV V3's on a 2007 335i manual with 3.08 ratio diff(openstock), 93oct + Meth(BMS kit) 99% VP M1 through CP activating at 8psi. SPEC STG 3+ clutch. Dyno 555whp with Jb4+MHD BEF HybridsRace, map3(autotune). 25psi max. Have done 8000 miles hitting the crap out of them, No smoke, pulls frikin hard (need SF Bushings harder). This my fun car so theres no mercy on those turbos. 100mph in 3rd gear easy at 6k rpm. 140mph in 4th at 5k rpm. By 3800 rpm in 3rd gear im at 20psi, and 22psi at 4000 (limited by me to 22 in 3rd). 4t & 5th gear reach 25 psi at 4200rpm.
I do this work my self. So for $1200 that I paid, and the misc stuff, cant beat that if you do the job yourself. But if your going to pay money for this work, specially at a shop were your just a customer(no consideration) i would say go with the DA Flow Max's Plus if you can strech the budget. Beware that DA's are at $2800 US already, so deciding going Single at that point would be like, fuck it, lets do this. Remember the pro is, replacing a top muonted bad turbo is simple down the road if your going to stay with the car long term. At the end do what ever the fuck you want, its your money right?😃😃😄😄
What inlets are your running? I have the same Viv v3 19t 6+6 turbos. Haven’t installed them yet and I have the viv inlets and outlets. After watching the video I’m thinking if I should scrap the viv inlets and go with vsrf or something.
I installed VRSF 2" stock location Inlets. They feel reinforced but I always have the doubt if they try to collapse under WOT. If I was to do It again, i would go with ARMMotosports Relocated Inlets Kit. Little pricier, but its stated that they permit aditional 60hp because less restriction apart from less chance of colapsing and killing the turbo. I installed VRSF 2" outlets too. I have a single 3.5" exhaust from DP's.
Just installed some viv 19t on my e90 at first they where laggy but after doing a smoke test found out I had a vacuum leak and boost leak. Fixed and now make full boost by 3500 rpm
Im current running ebay FAPO 19ts on the mhd stage 2+ ots map and when starting at around 2500 rpm I am at full boost (~18.6 psi) by 3500 rpm. I would imagine that would be improved with a custom tune and port injection but I hope this info still helps some of you guys!
Soooo interestingly an OTS map will overboost like crazy with hyrbrids. You can think of it as 80% wgdc on stock turbos wont even hit 18psi. But 80% wgdc on 17ts will hit 27psi. The DME is controlling them like they are stock turbos. Commanding wgdc for the small stockers but getting heaps more boost. You can kill your turbos pretty quickly with OTS maps. Just a heads up. If you fuel system is handling it, the motor will be fine. But keep an eye on throttle closures. The DME cant see why the turbos are making so much boost so it shuts the throttle to tame boost. On the flip side if you are feeling dangerous, run v5 e40 OTS with stock tmap and be faster than 95% of custom tuned hybrid cars out there :P
@@ZeroTo60Tube Thank you for the reply!! Through my experience the mhd v5 lacks the torque as well as top end compared to the v10. My 60-130 on the v5 was a low 8 and on v10 i managed a 7.82. Im currently running the 3.5 bar sensor and on the v5 its hitting 20.5-20.8 psi (according to the sensor who knows if its true) and 17-19 psi on v10. At low rpm and boost its hotting 80% wgdc and at 18psi the wgdc is around 40-50%. Im currently running 2 walbro 450s and no PI. Love the channel by the way!!! Keep up the amazing work!
V5 is the kill map. But if you have a 3.5bar map sensor, it will be the throttle closure map. Put your stock tmap back in and let it rip. Stock tmap hides the boost from the DME and avoides the throttle closures. You will do a low 6 second 100-200 on v5 e40. But be careful, it hits about 26/27psi on 17ts
@@ZeroTo60Tube Before i switch back would there be any reason that it feels slower/the same on the stock tmap? Ive checked for boost leaks and pressurized the system and havent found any leaks.
I have 17T VIV turbos 6+6 on my n54 swapped hatch. Mine has always been 1psi under target. Boosts fine set around 23-25psi. Have got around 9,000km on them now. Definitely spools later than my stock mhd 2+ tuned coupe. Takes till 3500 for full boost like you mention in video. Only issue I've had was tuner had to increase wgdc more than others. And couple times I've had oil leaking around the chra drain area very small and slow then stops.. strange. I have VRSF inlets and their outlets ( modified for RHD ).
My 17t 6+6 blades come in 2500rpm. Feel great. The Arashi dynamics turbos look interesting, 19t td04hl. They actually have there specs on the website. Wonder how they would match up to flow max's
My 19t and inlets are going strong about 6 months in at MHD 2+ and now I have a custome tune and my boost hits in around 2800 or earlier but I rarely floor it before 3000 rpm
I had viv 19t 6+6 first time it blew off after 2k miles and I made them send me a new turbos with discount , I put on them about 6k miles right now but I didn’t tune it to yet for 24psi it’s running 17psi right now
Great content love the B.S. Tell it like it is don't hold back.. About the second turbo hest soak? Perhaps the turbo waste gate wasn't set correctly and it caused the ecu to try and hit its target but couldn't adapt and be sluggish?
Just got to the end of the video, I’ve been. Talking to my tuner Chris trying to figure out an issue when we just swapped To a bit more aggressive file at 64/6500 I loose all boost and all power, sometimes misfire sometimes let out and get back in it in next gear all good, he mentioned inlet collapse possibility going to go check it out asap probably make a video out of it, thanks for the heads up!
Oshhhh hopefully thats your problem. If the filters flow enough air you wont get inlet colapse. but if the filter is restriction at some point they will shut closed.
Sup guys!! I have a 2009 n54 running 17ts, fbo, vrsf inlet and outlets.. car feels super fast on 91 feels like it’s on e85.. 18psi.. I heard it’s best to keep it under 25 psi with these
My stock turbo WG aren’t sealing anymore If I wasn’t chasing big HP and wanted quick spool and low down torque with reliability would you stick with new Mitsubishi OEMs?
My 19t’s spool way faster than the stock ones did, But I only had a JB4 and charge pipe with stock turbos. I did relocated inlet, outlets, intercooler, and downpipe when I did the 19t’s
I’ll be honest, I don’t know stock turbo spool values because everything I watch or read is upgrade stuff. I’m at 12-13psi by 2500 rpm’s 18-20ish by 3500, I was like 6-8 on stock turbos at 2500, I had very minor wastegate rattle from the front turbo and 126k miles when I got the car. The lag difference after catlless dp’s is huge. All of these quoted numbers are with JB4 in tune 5 adaptive, which out performs all the other options on my car, and I’m not diving into custom tuning until I spend on some other preventative upgrades. Relocated inlets help with spool time a lot compared to upgraded inlets also.
I have 17t's and was thinking of upgrading to 19t's. My goals are about 600hp at so because I know that the internals are not dependable beyond that. So do the 19t's have that much more lag than the 17t's?
Also have 19t, just 480hp and the lag is terrible it goes just after 4500 like a bullet tho but the rear turbo touched a side and is gone🥲 Any recomendation on what to put in?
I'm curios to hear more about Scott's 19T's and what you guys conclude with those. I know we kinda talked about how mine were laggy. This weekend while I was having my morning cup of coffee I went back over the build sheet the previous owner had given me to see if there was anything that stood out to me and there wasn't really. BTW... love my new Zero to 60 coffee cup and thanks for the IG follow... Any way, like I said, they start to pull hard after 4k and currently if its not broken, then I'm not going to mess with it. Plenty of other maintenance stuff to do first. The more reading I've done though, the more I'm starting to think they're just laggy. My big question is why are they single turbo levels of lag though. Still haven't found an answer that quite satisfies me.
I think and this is a big assumption, there is a production run where they have messed something up. Scotts spool like a single turbo. Donest matter how you drive it, you aint doing much under 4000rpm. With the flowmax you can wind the pedal on the right way and get them spooling in the 3000 range. This is how the china 19t should be. Hopefully we work it out. At least the conversation has started. Oh and thanks for the support with mug, nice to know im not the only one out there with one now haha
@@ZeroTo60Tube Yeah, I'm not sure where the castings and parts for all these 19T's are coming from. I'm sure theres multiple sources, but theres a good chance that a lot of them are coming from China. I mean, just about everything comes from there these days. I cant wait to see where this conversation goes and I hope that it sheds some light on whats going on here. The coffee mug is my new favorite and I'm happy to support you guys in any way I can. I know how things are, I'm a content creator my self, just in a different space. I want to see you get a new shop and live the dream man.
Mine are the same man iv got the 6+6 19t on my 7th revision with jsr hopefully something he can make better for me. Pulls good once its moving but not nearly as snappy as stockers
@@n54nz2 Yeah, once I hit boost my car moves, but up until then its kinda meh. I raced an E92 M3 that had a bit of a jump on me. Didn't hit boost until I was on his rear bumper, but as soon as I did it was like he was standing still. Its a night and day difference once that boost hits. Its just waiting for it to hit feels like an eternity. lol
Also it got mentioned that the N54 community has had issues with many rear turbo failures. I believe I understand why the rear always has issues first . Some of the vendors thought it was due to the drains not being big enough. I disagree. I believe that the rear turbo get suffocated with oil. If you don’t drain your oil before changing the turbos, you will see what I’m talking about. Remove the drain plug/hose from the front turbo. No oil will leak out. Now remove the rear turbo drain at the motor and you will have a massive amount of oil come out. What does that mean? It means that the front turbo can drain freely but the rear will have to fight to drain. It’s blocked, the oil cooks in the line and CHRA. It also exacerbated when the front end lifts and all the oil shifts to the rear. I went single turbo and chose to connect the drain to the front location. Others have chosen the rear for their bottom mounts and have had similar issues in older threads. 🤷🏻♂️ Go single and choose the front drain or customize a dual drain for the front and connect both turbos to it.
Im spewing wrote a massive reply and internet dropped off. Ill add to this later if i get time. but are you sure the oil drains are blocked when the motor is running?
Zero To 60 , I’d say there are some instances when it could be exacerbated when it’s on. There is no dipstick, an owner gets a low oil light , adds oil. Hard pull , oil to the rear pan, sits and idles and gets suffocated. I would think it would happen less on a course than straight line quarter mile. It’s up to you to add the information. I know oil flows out when off, which means I verified the rear can bake after hard drives and all the 6.5 quarts of oil drains down. It would be hard for me to video and prove the same scenario since I don’t have twins and would have to essentially run a rear turbo dry (no oil supply) while unplugging the rear drain line( or block off) while the car is on. I hope that makes sense.
@@chrisrobles2012 I havent put a lot of thought in to recently. But made the assumption back in the day oil must not be at the oil drains when the motor is running. You dont loose that much oil when you pull the lines before draining the oil. It might be 500ml to a litre. But you are right at times corning etc oil will make its way up there. But not for long. I kind of think a lot of smoky turbo issues are PCV related. So many people mess around with catch cans and external PCV, instead of just fitting new parts that we know work. I feel a twin car, needs stock PCV for decent crank case vacuum. Single car, doesnt matter at all. Who needs crank case vacuum on a single.
I knew a circuit race guy who kept blowing tirbos on a RB30ET. On the dyno the cause was identified as a uni air filter with no internal cage collapsing and chocking the inlet! Seen inlets collapse on a land rover TD5 as well of all things. Cheers 🍻
Hey Andrew, love your content man. I also have a 09 e90 auto with flow max plus turbos with vrsf inlets and outlets. I'm dialing in the 93 tune with jsr and my wgdc hits %65 towards redline on 17psi in 3rd and 18psi in 4th. I don't have a boost leak because my boost does not drop off. Was wondering what your wgdc looks like on your e90. Thanks
This is a log on the flowmax car when i fixed the boost leak. Its not great cos the dme has gone from compensating for a leak to not needing to. But gives you an idea. datazap.me/u/zeroto60tube/v8-leak-fixed?log=0&data=3-21-29
@@ZeroTo60Tube what inlets are you using on the e90? I'm using the vrsf 2inch oem location. I don't have any kinks other than the fact I do believe the rear inlet is somewhat tight/pinched against the fire wall. I'm kind of paranoid with the rear inlets being tight against the firewall like that. Want to ask you if that's normal with your experience with n54s/inlets. Because on my e92 17t car I had relocated inlets and never had to worry. Don't want to have my rear flow max plus turbo blow from overworking.
Hey, love ya work, being new to BMW it would be so good to make some connections of mechanics who can do stuff that I don’t know needs doing, especially here on the Sunny Coast, I’ve a 2011 e93 n55, which is such a joy to drive and also a great sense of anxiety when not driving, cheers
On DAW 2+ 775s I make boost at 2000rpms and hit full boost at like 3500 which is 20psi at the moment. But I have had issues with smoke that haven't come back in a while, but I am making about 100hp less than I was about a year ago...I'm not sure what's up with that. On the dyno in 4th gear I made 23 psi and 11 degrees of timing and spun 598hp, 573tq. Put that log into log dyno and it came up at 620hp and like 680tq, but that was just a brief spike. Now I do a log dyno and I'm getting 490hp and 520tq. Haven't taken it to the dyno but the car is also running a full second slower 100-200 times
I used to mess wiht log dyno, but i have given up completely with it. You cant get any useable consistancy. The dragy on the other hand. Thats fine for working this out. A full second is a big hit. Is the car still hitting the same boost, WGDC and timing it was on the dyno?
@@ZeroTo60Tube same load request, not getting 23 psi in 3rd. Only reaching 21. Wgdc is same if not less, timing is 13 degrees but having huge timing drops on gear change. I do believe the fuel I have bad, but I'll try getting better fuel and running it again. I think I'll be heading to the track on Friday so we'll see how it goes. I did overlay the 2 logs on the app with same parameters and the difference was still 100hp and 130tq
Hi Guys my 19tees did about 10k kilometers then lost one tubine blade , I noted a humming sound so I immediately pulled the turbos , i sent pics to viv and they said they will send me 1 new core, all well very nice but never received it, but to kill waiting time I measured up the turbine wheels and got a fresh set from Mamba tec and fitted them , regarding the spool i have full power at 2800rpm and been running great since , some info on these 19tees they use a 9 blade TD 04L turbine and a TD04 HL comp wheel Best regards
I have the Vargas F-RB Turbos and they are vary impressive! I know Vargas has a dark past and oddly enough this is the exact reason why I chose VTT, through their failures and criticism from others I believe it’s made them one of the best turbo venders. It’s very unfortunate that a lot of their customers got caught in the crosshairs of those failures
While I can’t comment on their stuff directly, I’m sure there is merit in what you are saying. It’s been a bit of the Wild West for turbo venders. So many failures caused by user error and the manufacturer gets lumped with it
@@ZeroTo60Tube So True…There’s definitely the operator error side of the argument. Customers over achieving the limits of the turbo,bad maintenance upkeep, wrong performance upgrades to accommodate a turbo of this caliber, installation error, wrong/bad tune, etc… list goes on, for sure! Cars gotta be on point if you want it to be as reliable as “reliable” gets in the performance car world
How you bro. Huge fan of your work. Got some questions. With dig racing and not rolls. Which trans is better the 7 speed or 8 speed. And as for the turbos the flow maxes being big turbos how’d they do with racing off dig?
The 8hp is the way to go for dig and I thinks it’s quicker for rolls as well, mind you not much in it for rolls. Flowmax’s are wild from a dig. 2500rpm start with the 8hp and it blows the semi slicks off effortlessly, it’s making too much power at 2500 and the 8hp in 2nd.
@@ZeroTo60Tube another question in relation to weight.. If you wanna build a fast n54 you advise the sedan and 135i? Or does the weight really matter less
@@tronn_carter I have a bootleg perrin exhaust fatback with it. But definitely sounds amazing the turbo spool compared to stock is much more noticeable in sound
Is Scott's car able to hold PSI in the intake the way you tested for boost leaks? I ask because my 19t's cannot no matter how much I try and locate leaks I can't seem to find them .
@BMW1M First drive i wasnt pushing it too hard. Suddenly i was getting 0 boost and could hear rattling. Just started it today(cold start) the wastegate was basically screaming.
Looking to upgrade my twins, I’m thinking RB turbos(can’t remember what specific ones). I want to get around 450whp with emphasis on quick spooling. Is RB my best bet for that? I don’t wanna get China turbos but also don’t wanna spend more than 3k
@@335kai7 Flow Max +. they spool too fast in an auto. I have mine wound down under 4000rpm. You will effortly blow semi slicks off if you run them hard down low. They will also break a motor pretty easy too. they flow a lot of air.
@@335kai7 Have a chat to shawn from DAW. I quite like the Plus for the top end, but im pushing 700whp. One thing to keep in mind, when i started my goal was only 500whp. Most people keep moving the goal posts, cos after a couple of months of 500whp it will start to feel slow
Waiting to get my bmw 335i back with 17t turbos, got vrsf upgraded turbo inlets to go with it, only looking to push about 475 whp. Would that be a good target for some reliability?
I hate to be that guy, but reliabilty comes down to how much you put in the to car. If everything was new (injectors, water pump, hoses, radiatior, trans cooler, throttle body, map sensor, plugs, coils and so on), you would be pretty good with a decent fuel system at 475whp for a while. But if the car is 10+ years old and you have only replaced failed parts to this point, simply do not expect reliability.
Nothing new, its been daily driven, i will try and get down to visiti him and do a proper review. He lives 2 hours away from me or i would have done it sooner.
Its youtube blocking auto blocking the link due to spam. A new video will get hit with 10-20 links in the first 2 hours normally, so links when a video is fresh always get pulled. Thats said eventually it will show in my spam folder.
@@ZeroTo60Tube No worries i just want to show my logs to the people to show the 19ts are not to bad cheap power... But it all comes down the the tunner and the right set up. Ive been using ken for a few years now. Now all the JB4 People have seen the light
Hey come on ive never had one issue with the AIC its old school but works if i got a reflex for free i would have one and there V3 19ts Hey Euro day just gone not one BMW out there could even beat my on a hurt motor in fact i didn't lose a race that day fastest 335i n54 out that day..
@@tighematthew haha, hey im running the aic in the flowmax it works!!! The worst part about euro day, was people dont know your motor is hurt! You would have to be 50-100hp down on where it should be. Have you done a 100-200 with the motor like this yet?
Very interesting. Something I am curious on is that I've bought my now two month old 17t turbos from ebay and I bought them in a package that included the inlets with them. The inlets are the exact same ones you just showed in this video. They say "1st Racing" on them as well with the re-enforcement in them. They turbos spool up very strong down low at about 2500 RPM or so maybe even earlier. They are so far working perfect (About 1500 KM driven so far) I am, though having INSANE boost leak troubles. Trying to identify where and how the boost is leaking has been crazy. I even bought a different better quality charge pipe from ARM because my ebay cheapies were not sealing right at the intake with the added boost. I also bought the ones that utilize the stock diverter valves because I was convinced the TIAL knock off BOV was leaking as well. Of course the stock Diverter valves can't really handle anything over about 19 or 20 lbs boost and I've been using them like BOV's venting to atmosphere while I'm waiting for my upgraded dual BOV's to arrive off ebay. Meanwhile I've still got huge leak troubles. However I have been using an upgraded 5' stepped intercooler with the factory clip on type connectors to and from the in and out because I took the advice of some video folks that buying the 7.5 intercooler would be a mistake back when I had the OEM turbos still in and now I can't afford to buy that larger intercooler after spending the cash on the turbos. LOL. I am now suspecting that my car is leaking (Always under load while driving and not while revving standing still) at those connections. So after seeing a video from a guy who claims he fixed his boost leak on his 535i by using the white thread sealer tape for air and hydraulic lines etc to upgrade the factory sealing on those clip end connections I'm going to try it today as well. Here's hoping! I also have seen where a guy is using larger after market silicone tubing and just clamping them to his clip on type ends of his 5' stepped intercooler and he says they never leak and he's using the 17t ebay turbos too! But he's having oil leaking trouble at the oil connections on his. I will try this next as I won't have any cash for a long time to spend on $600 plus dollar 7.5 intercooler. (Canadian Dollars) .And don't forget to upgrade your spark plugs to the one or two step colder ones when you do the turbo upgrade. Oh and I've been running MHD with 93 oct fuel.
I honestly have had the 1 boost leak and it was at the connector to the upgraded intercoler. The O ring inside can potentially slip out if it's groove... I still have the OEM Diverter valves and they have held up well for nearly 2 years with 20psi peak. Just so you know, they are probably stronger than people suggest. I ordered stringer ones just in case but haven't bothered.
@@Rvssvlle90 I just got my new ones in the mail last week and I'll have them in in the next day or two along with replacement vacuum lines. Thanks for the tip and I'm hoping it's the same for me!
@@cocko1135 Well that's something to go by. I've got my car ready to try and fix the "O" type ring (on mine it's actually a soft type of rubber attached to the outlet going to and from the intercooler. So I'm going to use the sealing tape to try and make them work right like they should again. Here's hopin! Thanks for the help!
@@friguy4444 best of luck Greg. Be wary of the O ring because it can snag when placing the piping over it and when that happens it will roll out if the V groove and then not seal properly. A little oil on the O ring first and then wiggle on works for me. Have fun mate.
I just got 2021 viv t17 hybrids delivered and it appears they where balanced by turbo technics in the uk? anyone had the same? also the balance shaft has a little play but I guess it will adjust with oil pressure once installed
Everyone has exactly the same balance sheet, its so BS on vivs behalf. Turbo Technics have addressed this fake balance sheet on their facebook page. However in short Turbo Technics do make balance machines for shops, however the machine auto updates the shop name during calibration. So its either a fake sheet, or the machine they are using is not calibrated. Juding by how much it looks like a photocopy, im guessing its just a fake copy of a different balance sheet.
@@ZeroTo60Tube oh 😅..hey on the exhaust blade it looks like it was grinded down a little where the nut bolts on to the shaft, where yours like that too? thanks again for the answers your content is gold good sir.
@@liberatorofminds.3159 Yes yes, the china turbskis are balanced. But just not on a legit turbo technics machine. I just dont like that they try and decieve people.
@@ZeroTo60Tube I got them installed but changed the actuators with original BMW parts I noticed that the Chinese actuators close full at around 11inHg and bmw's around 7, bmw seem to close faster under vacuum, anyways I got them adjusted before installing acording to turbolabs video and now I have wastegate rattle when decelerating very annoying, I already double checked everything hoses even changed the boost solenoids, Is it rattleing because of the downpipes?flow vs (cat backpressure), or should I change the actuators back? sorry to bother you boss.
Watched this for the first time on my iPad, not Apple TV, the links, Wow I know you mention them but don’t access them from the Apple TV please tell the viewers
I wont touch that. Most of the tuners on the platform dont understand it, i definitely dont want to join the group of people learning on customers cars lol
Damn, I dissapear for a month due to work and a huuuuge laod of content and things happened. Best of luck with getting there, we are not that many of a number but we care, I´ll go check the cofee later Glad to see how the outcome came about with the turbos, its always nice to see reviews in long term with things that were all the blast at some point, have you thought of the review of the dkg with xhp that never came?
Man, that is something i should have done. Now my box needs a clutch, im looking forward to pulling it apart and getting to see how the dual clutches work.
From my research these china 17t,19t aren't actual size they advertise. They pull compressor wheels/maps are from oem replacement turbos for Volvo/Saab they already manufacture. So these compressor wheels are engineered for minimum and operational capacity for those vehicles. All they do is manufacture the n54 chra housings /manifolds. ..and slap in inferior gaskets/thrust bearings .. which cause insufficient oil distribution..pushing seals under load etc That they get away with..but we also need to be aware of the fact were over boosting and abusing the hell out of them lol Not out rite bashing the options they provide but you have to totally rebuild the unit before install ....(seals, thrust bearing, c clips) $65 x 2 from turbo lab of America rebuild kit(Amazon) and 2hrs rebuilding , check drainage and coolant ports for obstructions to flow. Also always new coolant and oil drainage lines should be... used factory lines can bend and effect flow causing failure. Stick to oem inlets till you get relocated aluminum inlets. Silicone are waste of money. Also id upgrade oil cooling capacity 19 row oil cooler with AN fittings. Enlarged exhaust back pressure will cause problems as well. They're different tier and longevity of these 17t/19t turbo. Ebay/Viv 0-6mos-1yr there fun to have once you know your keeping it under 600hp but it'll be one season tops lol. Anything higher and your in a race programing with discretionary funding lol MY 2 Cents .... stack your money to get a mid mount or top mount in the mean time the seasons going lol
I have been pushing my Pure 600’s 17psi(low boost) since June of last year. I’m on an e50 mix but will be turning up the boost when I go PI in a couple months. No issues so far with them🙌🏻🔥
I brought my 17ts from a guy in China about 3 months before you guys. And my Chinese guy disappeared off the face of the earth. Never read my WhatsApp messages or answered calls too. Mine are still going strong about 35,000kms down.
I have the VIV 11 blade 17T which the internet claims are the worst and will fail, that said its been fine for 6 months so far. I do however have re enforced vrsf inlets, mine are hardly working hard at 20psi, but still enough to beat some expensive machines, check my channel for 135i vs GTR and GR Supra 😉 the spool is good, 20psi by 3400rpm, feels as responsive down low as oem turbos, stock DI is limiting and these cars love a good ethanol mix.
I have viv 17t with there inlets running good but I haven’t been hitting full boost cuz my boost solinoids aren’t opening my wastegates enough my wgdc is 25 and it should be around 50 😂
Runing 19T's 6+6 VIV V3's on a 2007 335i manual with 3.08 ratio diff(openstock), 93oct + Meth(BMS kit) 99% VP M1 through CP activating at 8psi. SPEC STG 3+ clutch. Dyno 555whp with Jb4+MHD BEF HybridsRace, map3(autotune). 25psi max. Have done 8000 miles hitting the crap out of them, No smoke, pulls frikin hard (need SF Bushings harder). This my fun car so theres no mercy on those turbos. 100mph in 3rd gear easy at 6k rpm. 140mph in 4th at 5k rpm. By 3800 rpm in 3rd gear im at 20psi, and 22psi at 4000 (limited by me to 22 in 3rd). 4t & 5th gear reach 25 psi at 4200rpm.
Thought about them as a cheap solution to the TTE600‘s here in europe, here at us nobody realy gave the 17T‘s a chance so no user reports of them :/ you were fascinated and now yeah 🥲🥲
So Andrew did you sell the Flow Max car already? If not are you still going to sell it? I really wish you wouldn't if so. I was looking forward to seeing that baby doing some roll racing and fun stuff after the build was all done. In the end it's your car and you can do what you like. But that's what I'd love to see. No matter, I love the other car too! LOL.
I havent sold the flowmax car, a lot of people expressed how much they want to see more of it. However i really do need to sell it. Then again it all depends on of getting some companies to advertise on the channel
I’m really puzzled to why a M1 owner would install China shit on such a nice car?? I understand why the channel does/did as it was the foundation to the channel. Anyway all the best with finding a new location, I’m sure with the determination you guys have you’ll make something happen 🤘
@@ZeroTo60Tube you must have been pushing it to its limits. You should be able to do 600 horsepower and not have to worry about blowing the block or sending a rod through it
when replacing the turbos on your N54 you should always replace the oil lines to your turbos, the lines will over time get restricted, if not changed you can starve the turbos of oil. you should also always inspect and check for exessive play in the shaft of your new turbos before installing. one of the 17t turbos i received was junk and i had to fight to get them to replace it, didnt take no for an answer. the seller wanted me to still install it and give it a try. the wheel was hitting the housing, had to file a claim to get the seller to take it back.
I went with v4 11 blades and VRSF relocated inlets and outlets. I’ve even purchased OEM wastegate actuators because I simply don’t trust VIV hardware. I just know that the v4 manifold design is superior to the v3 and believe it would be good for the platform to test and contribute to the knowledge pool for those looking to make power on a “budget”.
I’ll be installing everything soon and will document the entire process on my channel along with draggy info. Stay tuned! Thanks for all you do Andrew!
Please let us know how it plays out. What is the all up cost at retail for viv v4 and replacement wastegates? Roughly
@@ZeroTo60Tube the OEM wastegates we’re about $40 USD each from FCP Euro and the 19t v4 11 blades retail on eBay for about $1800 USD. I’ll be sure to document everything on my channel starting from individual product unboxing, install, and review!
Need that update man
@@tronn_carter updates?
Update coming soon guys! Car has been running fantastically.
I've had Pure Stage 2 Hi Flows over 5 yrs ago...they still running like the day I bought them. still running 27 psi.
RB GF 17T's on my 08 e92 335xi making 640whp. Spool very well. Positive boost comes in just after 2000 rpms and have the full 27 psi at 4000 rpms.
If you floor the car at 2500 rpms, MHD logs show 3 psi of boost by the time your foot is flat. Very responsive in my opinion.
Whats your setup?
@@n54_GOAT just full bolt ons and all maintenance fully up to date (aka index 12's etc) outside of that it's the mentioned turbos from Rob Beck, fuelit 650+ lpfp and a throttle body injection plate with a 250cc and a 500cc fuel injector that comes on at 10 an 20 psi. Daily driven an abused. Just change the oil. 😊
Rob makes some great stuff, really the only proven solution for upgraded twins imo. The Twos (15T) are an amazing DD turbo, mine are making right under 500whp on a conservative 93 tune and hit full 21psi at 2800. The lag is there if you are used to stockers, but they really don't run out of steam up top
@@deadlyassassin240 cool, 09 e90 335xi here with RB2+ and PI. Haven't dynod it yet.
@@deadlyassassin240 I plan to get the Rb twos … Rob said to wire him the money and do business through email. Is this trustworthy? You think the 2 plus would fit in 535xi 2008?
feedback on those China turbos .some of the newer versions seem to not make boost past 5-6 k, likely due to inlets collapsing , worse with a stock filter box
Vivs inlets are an issue on 1 series ,there is less clearance in between firewall and block specially on automatics ,i always use a relocation kit when doing 1 series since I learned that it was an issue,never had that issue on 3 series ,also laggy 19t = shitty wastegates from viv ,im making it a common practice to order new ones from fcpeuro and that solves the issue ,but main issue is the volute on the 19ts ,too small ,hence the reason i asked viv to make the v4s ,also viv has been around for a long time ,i bought their turbos for the first time im 2018 but not until 2020 I installed them on my car !!!
@BMW1M use the stiffer inlet then ,it should resolve your issue ,also keep in mind back pressure is a know factor on these turbos ,over 500whp the back pressure figures are almost 2 to 1 as you climb up the range of power ,(reason zero to 60 cooled their engine), the flow max turbos resolved that issu lowering it to less than 1/1 factor making it more efficient 😉
Rb Game finishers of the best turbos on the planet!!
I ran my 19t 6+6 V3s for about 2 years (summer + winter) 30k km or so. Had no issues hitting boost, no smoke. Maybe I just got lucky but I also only ran them at about 20psi during their life in my car.
Thanks for keeping the content going with all going on don’t know if this will help with the current issues but Turbo lab America on UA-cam rebuilds tubos for a living and has found some questionable issues with several different 17t’s in which in his opinion contributed to premature failures also mentions taking a few steps to making them last a lot longer like I said I don’t know if this would help this situation but might be worth checking out
I have watched his videos on them and so I totally inspected my 17t's when I got them for the very troubles he was pointing out. I only got mine just over two months ago and I'm thinking that VIV or the manufacturer whomever they are saw that too and listened as none of the troubles were there on mine and it even looked like they had made sure they weren't there. IMHO.
Andrew, in the dawn of MHD antilag, I found a video from Street FX channel explaining brake boosting. Was looking to learn more about it and found that vid lower on the search list, didn't know you were involved and was drawn in by the informative title. Once I heard your intro I was thrilled. The vid told me exactly what I wanted to know and was well presented. Just wanted to thank you for your commitment, I know times are tough for you right now but I'd like to think that it is slowly improving. Creating an account to buy you a coffee right now. Cheers from New England
I've been around the automotive "block" thats for sure...... :P Hopefully find somewhere to live on that block soon. Thanks for your support and kinds words. It does not go un noticed.
Positive thoughts Andrew the new workshop will happen it just takes time.
I have been running Robs Game finishers 17ts for about 16k miles making 500whp (dynojet) on only 15psi. This is done on 93 octane as well but will definitely see what they can do with port injection and the reflex plus soon.
How much did you pay for the game finishers if you don’t mind me asking. Seems to be the best route because the China turbos aren’t proven to higher mileage
@@illwil1005 I bought it for about $3300 shipped to my door when they first came out. Rob offers a discount if you pay by check or money order.
Rob has been in the game longer than anyone else. His new turbos are the good. The RBS I had were quite an old design and where the Re manufactured ones. Would like to the gf in the flesh
@@ZeroTo60Tube you see him in the forums a lot but you find more UA-cam content on pure turbos. I’d like to see UA-cam content based on RB turbos, dyno runs and follow ups🙏🏾
my 19t are also a bit laggy. boosting from low but full boost not until 4000rpms. I did find with my NTT outlets they are leaky as and I cannot get get the system to hold pressure when trying a boost leak. I have also been doing everything for 8 months +. changed a heap. kinda sucks. 6+6 blades 19t
Pretty much exactly the same as scotts expeirence.
just this afternoon 20.20 psi in 3rd gear pull at 3858 rpm . wastegate is dropping at this rpm so tune needs some tweaks to keep it closed and reach higher but that's the best I have ever had so far.
Me too, exhaust helps. The best outlets are modified factory ones
I've had the 11 blades 19Ts VIVs for almost a year now and 6000 km, tuned to 20 psi on 94 pump gas, no issues thank God.
What rpm do you get on full boost
Love this channel, it gives alot of information on n54 platform! Don't stop! ❤
I've had my 17t's for four and a half years now and never been a problem and have done over 60k on them.
I got the 17t from ViV back in 2020 after seeing your channel. They have held up great so far I’ve had them on for over a year (20,000km) running around 24 psi with vrsf inlets and JSR tune. Pretty good bang for your buck if they don’t blow up lol
That’s perfect! Did you go 6+6 or 11 blades
335is N54 DCT here, my DAW 19T come on around 2800 RPM and I have beat on them 1/4 and half Mile for 3 years and still holding boost and running great!
@BMW1M I have never tracked the car and only driven it on nice days. I should state that I change the oil in this car about every 1500 miles or about 2400 KM. Anyway love your car and want to see more of it on the channel. Peace from the USA
.
Are the 17t reliable replacements for a daily driver with, lets say, Stage 2 MHD tune? New 2 inch inlets etc etc. No further mods.
No reliable with a stage 2 tune, you need a custom tune for hybrids or they will overboost.
10:25 spooling characteristics are different . More blades equals faster spooling down low but drop off in horsepower up top, while less blades means more lag down low, but extra horsepower up top.
I’d say I’ve seen high resolution photos of many after market inlets and the spacing of them differ. Not sure that it would make much of a difference in the end that there were some scrapes on the housings versus new ones that have much more spacing between the blade and housing . Just my opinion.
That aligns with everything i have read or heard.
Runing 19T's 6+6 VIV V3's on a 2007 335i manual with 3.08 ratio diff(openstock), 93oct + Meth(BMS kit) 99% VP M1 through CP activating at 8psi. SPEC STG 3+ clutch.
Dyno 555whp with Jb4+MHD BEF HybridsRace, map3(autotune). 25psi max.
Have done 8000 miles hitting the crap out of them, No smoke, pulls frikin hard (need SF Bushings harder). This my fun car so theres no mercy on those turbos.
100mph in 3rd gear easy at 6k rpm. 140mph in 4th at 5k rpm.
By 3800 rpm in 3rd gear im at 20psi, and 22psi at 4000 (limited by me to 22 in 3rd).
4t & 5th gear reach 25 psi at 4200rpm.
I do this work my self. So for $1200 that I paid, and the misc stuff, cant beat that if you do the job yourself.
But if your going to pay money for this work, specially at a shop were your just a customer(no consideration) i would say go with the DA Flow Max's Plus if you can strech the budget.
Beware that DA's are at $2800 US already, so deciding going Single at that point would be like, fuck it, lets do this.
Remember the pro is, replacing a top muonted bad turbo is simple down the road if your going to stay with the car long term. At the end do what ever the fuck you want, its your money right?😃😃😄😄
What inlets are your running? I have the same Viv v3 19t 6+6 turbos. Haven’t installed them yet and I have the viv inlets and outlets. After watching the video I’m thinking if I should scrap the viv inlets and go with vsrf or something.
I installed VRSF 2" stock location Inlets. They feel reinforced but I always have the doubt if they try to collapse under WOT.
If I was to do It again, i would go with ARMMotosports Relocated Inlets Kit. Little pricier, but its stated that they permit aditional 60hp because less restriction apart from less chance of colapsing and killing the turbo.
I installed VRSF 2" outlets too.
I have a single 3.5" exhaust from DP's.
@@robertlopez3477 Thanks for the info!
Just installed some viv 19t on my e90 at first they where laggy but after doing a smoke test found out I had a vacuum leak and boost leak. Fixed and now make full boost by 3500 rpm
6+6?
@@ashleys7416 yes 6+6 v3
Where were your leaks coming from
Im current running ebay FAPO 19ts on the mhd stage 2+ ots map and when starting at around 2500 rpm I am at full boost (~18.6 psi) by 3500 rpm. I would imagine that would be improved with a custom tune and port injection but I hope this info still helps some of you guys!
Soooo interestingly an OTS map will overboost like crazy with hyrbrids. You can think of it as 80% wgdc on stock turbos wont even hit 18psi. But 80% wgdc on 17ts will hit 27psi. The DME is controlling them like they are stock turbos. Commanding wgdc for the small stockers but getting heaps more boost. You can kill your turbos pretty quickly with OTS maps. Just a heads up. If you fuel system is handling it, the motor will be fine. But keep an eye on throttle closures. The DME cant see why the turbos are making so much boost so it shuts the throttle to tame boost. On the flip side if you are feeling dangerous, run v5 e40 OTS with stock tmap and be faster than 95% of custom tuned hybrid cars out there :P
@@ZeroTo60Tube Thank you for the reply!! Through my experience the mhd v5 lacks the torque as well as top end compared to the v10. My 60-130 on the v5 was a low 8 and on v10 i managed a 7.82. Im currently running the 3.5 bar sensor and on the v5 its hitting 20.5-20.8 psi (according to the sensor who knows if its true) and 17-19 psi on v10. At low rpm and boost its hotting 80% wgdc and at 18psi the wgdc is around 40-50%. Im currently running 2 walbro 450s and no PI. Love the channel by the way!!! Keep up the amazing work!
V5 is the kill map. But if you have a 3.5bar map sensor, it will be the throttle closure map. Put your stock tmap back in and let it rip. Stock tmap hides the boost from the DME and avoides the throttle closures. You will do a low 6 second 100-200 on v5 e40. But be careful, it hits about 26/27psi on 17ts
@@ZeroTo60Tube I tried the stock sensor too on the v5 but i need to try again just to make sure!
@@ZeroTo60Tube Before i switch back would there be any reason that it feels slower/the same on the stock tmap? Ive checked for boost leaks and pressurized the system and havent found any leaks.
I have 17T VIV turbos 6+6 on my n54 swapped hatch. Mine has always been 1psi under target. Boosts fine set around 23-25psi. Have got around 9,000km on them now. Definitely spools later than my stock mhd 2+ tuned coupe. Takes till 3500 for full boost like you mention in video.
Only issue I've had was tuner had to increase wgdc more than others. And couple times I've had oil leaking around the chra drain area very small and slow then stops.. strange.
I have VRSF inlets and their outlets ( modified for RHD ).
What did you have to do for them to fit rhd?
My 17t 6+6 blades come in 2500rpm. Feel great. The Arashi dynamics turbos look interesting, 19t td04hl. They actually have there specs on the website. Wonder how they would match up to flow max's
@BMW1M is that bad? I dunno
My 19t and inlets are going strong about 6 months in at MHD 2+ and now I have a custome tune and my boost hits in around 2800 or earlier but I rarely floor it before 3000 rpm
I always enjoy more information about turbos!
I really wanna hear about what other people have experienced.
I hope you will! 😁
I had viv 19t 6+6 first time it blew off after 2k miles and I made them send me a new turbos with discount , I put on them about 6k miles right now but I didn’t tune it to yet for 24psi it’s running 17psi right now
which version
Having the inlet problem on mine twins currently! Didn’t notice it until I turned up the boost
Great content love the B.S. Tell it like it is don't hold back.. About the second turbo hest soak? Perhaps the turbo waste gate wasn't set correctly and it caused the ecu to try and hit its target but couldn't adapt and be sluggish?
Just got to the end of the video, I’ve been. Talking to my tuner Chris trying to figure out an issue when we just swapped To a bit more aggressive file at 64/6500 I loose all boost and all power, sometimes misfire sometimes let out and get back in it in next gear all good, he mentioned inlet collapse possibility going to go check it out asap probably make a video out of it, thanks for the heads up!
Oshhhh hopefully thats your problem. If the filters flow enough air you wont get inlet colapse. but if the filter is restriction at some point they will shut closed.
just the video i wanted to see lol thanks for the update about Scotts car and ebay turbos
Well hopefully we can make some sense of everyone experience
17t wheel is bigger on the exducer so faster exit speeds on the 17t. The Viv 19t is slow to spool 19t 11 blade slightly helps.
Got any real world expeirence on where they are coming on?
@@ZeroTo60Tube I run the 19t 6+6 exhaust was a must but still very slow to spool will send you 👍
thanks man, will check it out
Sup guys!! I have a 2009 n54 running 17ts, fbo, vrsf inlet and outlets..
car feels super fast on 91 feels like it’s on e85.. 18psi.. I heard it’s best to keep it under 25 psi with these
Loving the content. Keep it up !!!
My stock turbo WG aren’t sealing anymore
If I wasn’t chasing big HP and wanted quick spool and low down torque with reliability would you stick with new Mitsubishi OEMs?
My 19t’s spool way faster than the stock ones did, But I only had a JB4 and charge pipe with stock turbos. I did relocated inlet, outlets, intercooler, and downpipe when I did the 19t’s
I’ll be honest, I don’t know stock turbo spool values because everything I watch or read is upgrade stuff. I’m at 12-13psi by 2500 rpm’s 18-20ish by 3500, I was like 6-8 on stock turbos at 2500, I had very minor wastegate rattle from the front turbo and 126k miles when I got the car. The lag difference after catlless dp’s is huge. All of these quoted numbers are with JB4 in tune 5 adaptive, which out performs all the other options on my car, and I’m not diving into custom tuning until I spend on some other preventative upgrades. Relocated inlets help with spool time a lot compared to upgraded inlets also.
I have 17t's and was thinking of upgrading to 19t's. My goals are about 600hp at so because I know that the internals are not dependable beyond that. So do the 19t's have that much more lag than the 17t's?
Also have 19t, just 480hp and the lag is terrible it goes just after 4500 like a bullet tho but the rear turbo touched a side and is gone🥲
Any recomendation on what to put in?
I'm curios to hear more about Scott's 19T's and what you guys conclude with those. I know we kinda talked about how mine were laggy. This weekend while I was having my morning cup of coffee I went back over the build sheet the previous owner had given me to see if there was anything that stood out to me and there wasn't really. BTW... love my new Zero to 60 coffee cup and thanks for the IG follow... Any way, like I said, they start to pull hard after 4k and currently if its not broken, then I'm not going to mess with it. Plenty of other maintenance stuff to do first. The more reading I've done though, the more I'm starting to think they're just laggy. My big question is why are they single turbo levels of lag though. Still haven't found an answer that quite satisfies me.
I think and this is a big assumption, there is a production run where they have messed something up. Scotts spool like a single turbo. Donest matter how you drive it, you aint doing much under 4000rpm. With the flowmax you can wind the pedal on the right way and get them spooling in the 3000 range. This is how the china 19t should be. Hopefully we work it out. At least the conversation has started.
Oh and thanks for the support with mug, nice to know im not the only one out there with one now haha
@@ZeroTo60Tube Yeah, I'm not sure where the castings and parts for all these 19T's are coming from. I'm sure theres multiple sources, but theres a good chance that a lot of them are coming from China. I mean, just about everything comes from there these days. I cant wait to see where this conversation goes and I hope that it sheds some light on whats going on here.
The coffee mug is my new favorite and I'm happy to support you guys in any way I can. I know how things are, I'm a content creator my self, just in a different space. I want to see you get a new shop and live the dream man.
Mine are the same man iv got the 6+6 19t on my 7th revision with jsr hopefully something he can make better for me. Pulls good once its moving but not nearly as snappy as stockers
@@n54nz2 Yeah, once I hit boost my car moves, but up until then its kinda meh. I raced an E92 M3 that had a bit of a jump on me. Didn't hit boost until I was on his rear bumper, but as soon as I did it was like he was standing still. Its a night and day difference once that boost hits. Its just waiting for it to hit feels like an eternity. lol
Also it got mentioned that the N54 community has had issues with many rear turbo failures.
I believe I understand why the rear always has issues first .
Some of the vendors thought it was due to the drains not being big enough.
I disagree.
I believe that the rear turbo get suffocated with oil. If you don’t drain your oil before changing the turbos, you will see what I’m talking about. Remove the drain plug/hose from the front turbo. No oil will leak out. Now remove the rear turbo drain at the motor and you will have a massive amount of oil come out.
What does that mean?
It means that the front turbo can drain freely but the rear will have to fight to drain. It’s blocked, the oil cooks in the line and CHRA.
It also exacerbated when the front end lifts and all the oil shifts to the rear.
I went single turbo and chose to connect the drain to the front location. Others have chosen the rear for their bottom mounts and have had similar issues in older threads.
🤷🏻♂️
Go single and choose the front drain or customize a dual drain for the front and connect both turbos to it.
Im spewing wrote a massive reply and internet dropped off. Ill add to this later if i get time. but are you sure the oil drains are blocked when the motor is running?
Zero To 60 , I’d say there are some instances when it could be exacerbated when it’s on. There is no dipstick, an owner gets a low oil light , adds oil. Hard pull , oil to the rear pan, sits and idles and gets suffocated. I would think it would happen less on a course than straight line quarter mile.
It’s up to you to add the information. I know oil flows out when off, which means I verified the rear can bake after hard drives and all the 6.5 quarts of oil drains down.
It would be hard for me to video and prove the same scenario since I don’t have twins and would have to essentially run a rear turbo dry (no oil supply) while unplugging the rear drain line( or block off) while the car is on.
I hope that makes sense.
@@chrisrobles2012 I havent put a lot of thought in to recently. But made the assumption back in the day oil must not be at the oil drains when the motor is running. You dont loose that much oil when you pull the lines before draining the oil. It might be 500ml to a litre. But you are right at times corning etc oil will make its way up there. But not for long. I kind of think a lot of smoky turbo issues are PCV related. So many people mess around with catch cans and external PCV, instead of just fitting new parts that we know work. I feel a twin car, needs stock PCV for decent crank case vacuum. Single car, doesnt matter at all. Who needs crank case vacuum on a single.
I got 17t 6x6 with the vrsf relocation kit. Mine comes on at 2.7.
I knew a circuit race guy who kept blowing tirbos on a RB30ET. On the dyno the cause was identified as a uni air filter with no internal cage collapsing and chocking the inlet!
Seen inlets collapse on a land rover TD5 as well of all things. Cheers 🍻
Its definitely a thing, I remember a guy used to work for us, had the problem on a stock jeep. rubber inlet went soft and would collapse under laod.
Hey Andrew, love your content man. I also have a 09 e90 auto with flow max plus turbos with vrsf inlets and outlets. I'm dialing in the 93 tune with jsr and my wgdc hits %65 towards redline on 17psi in 3rd and 18psi in 4th. I don't have a boost leak because my boost does not drop off. Was wondering what your wgdc looks like on your e90. Thanks
This is a log on the flowmax car when i fixed the boost leak. Its not great cos the dme has gone from compensating for a leak to not needing to. But gives you an idea. datazap.me/u/zeroto60tube/v8-leak-fixed?log=0&data=3-21-29
@@ZeroTo60Tube what inlets are you using on the e90? I'm using the vrsf 2inch oem location. I don't have any kinks other than the fact I do believe the rear inlet is somewhat tight/pinched against the fire wall. I'm kind of paranoid with the rear inlets being tight against the firewall like that. Want to ask you if that's normal with your experience with n54s/inlets. Because on my e92 17t car I had relocated inlets and never had to worry. Don't want to have my rear flow max plus turbo blow from overworking.
Hey, love ya work, being new to BMW it would be so good to make some connections of mechanics who can do stuff that I don’t know needs doing, especially here on the Sunny Coast, I’ve a 2011 e93 n55, which is such a joy to drive and also a great sense of anxiety when not driving, cheers
Shoot me an email I’ll hook you up with Jake.
On DAW 2+ 775s I make boost at 2000rpms and hit full boost at like 3500 which is 20psi at the moment. But I have had issues with smoke that haven't come back in a while, but I am making about 100hp less than I was about a year ago...I'm not sure what's up with that. On the dyno in 4th gear I made 23 psi and 11 degrees of timing and spun 598hp, 573tq. Put that log into log dyno and it came up at 620hp and like 680tq, but that was just a brief spike. Now I do a log dyno and I'm getting 490hp and 520tq. Haven't taken it to the dyno but the car is also running a full second slower 100-200 times
I used to mess wiht log dyno, but i have given up completely with it. You cant get any useable consistancy. The dragy on the other hand. Thats fine for working this out. A full second is a big hit. Is the car still hitting the same boost, WGDC and timing it was on the dyno?
@@ZeroTo60Tube same load request, not getting 23 psi in 3rd. Only reaching 21. Wgdc is same if not less, timing is 13 degrees but having huge timing drops on gear change. I do believe the fuel I have bad, but I'll try getting better fuel and running it again. I think I'll be heading to the track on Friday so we'll see how it goes. I did overlay the 2 logs on the app with same parameters and the difference was still 100hp and 130tq
Hi Guys my 19tees did about 10k kilometers then lost one tubine blade , I noted a humming sound so I immediately pulled the turbos , i sent pics to viv and they said they will send me 1 new core, all well very nice but never received it, but to kill waiting time I measured up the turbine wheels and got a fresh set from Mamba tec and fitted them , regarding the spool i have full power at 2800rpm and been running great since , some info on these 19tees they use a 9 blade TD 04L turbine and a TD04 HL comp wheel
Best regards
I have heard a few stories off lazy wArranty which is a shame. Everything been ok since?
@@ZeroTo60Tube Hi Andrew sorry for the late reply, yes been perfect for the last 4k kilos, running E30 now hopefully egt’s will be a bit lower 🙏🏻
I have the Vargas F-RB Turbos and they are vary impressive! I know Vargas has a dark past and oddly enough this is the exact reason why I chose VTT, through their failures and criticism from others I believe it’s made them one of the best turbo venders. It’s very unfortunate that a lot of their customers got caught in the crosshairs of those failures
While I can’t comment on their stuff directly, I’m sure there is merit in what you are saying. It’s been a bit of the Wild West for turbo venders. So many failures caused by user error and the manufacturer gets lumped with it
@@ZeroTo60Tube So True…There’s definitely the operator error side of the argument. Customers over achieving the limits of the turbo,bad maintenance upkeep, wrong performance upgrades to accommodate a turbo of this caliber, installation error, wrong/bad tune, etc… list goes on, for sure! Cars gotta be on point if you want it to be as reliable as “reliable” gets in the performance car world
I went with rb turbos. Bullet proof so far. 15k miles 25 psi
@BMW1M rb 2s. With I went with 2+ so I wouldn't have to run as much boost.
@BMW1M I love them, zero turbo lag and I'm beating cars I shouldn't be with these.
Yewww, Great garage haha, Love this video & awesome content on upgraded turbz.
Look familar hey?
How you bro. Huge fan of your work. Got some questions. With dig racing and not rolls. Which trans is better the 7 speed or 8 speed. And as for the turbos the flow maxes being big turbos how’d they do with racing off dig?
The 8hp is the way to go for dig and I thinks it’s quicker for rolls as well, mind you not much in it for rolls. Flowmax’s are wild from a dig. 2500rpm start with the 8hp and it blows the semi slicks off effortlessly, it’s making too much power at 2500 and the 8hp in 2nd.
@@ZeroTo60Tube thanks 8hp it is. So in this regard what turbo would be advisable if you do races from dig and also useable for the street? 17ts maybe?
@@ZeroTo60Tube another question in relation to weight.. If you wanna build a fast n54 you advise the sedan and 135i? Or does the weight really matter less
My 19t eBay 11 blades feel great. Peak power around 4 to 5k and just like u said it feels stock at the low end spooling up already at 2k
How do they sound?
@@tronn_carter I have a bootleg perrin exhaust fatback with it. But definitely sounds amazing the turbo spool compared to stock is much more noticeable in sound
Thanks you bro for shere feedback 🙏
Is Scott's car able to hold PSI in the intake the way you tested for boost leaks? I ask because my 19t's cannot no matter how much I try and locate leaks I can't seem to find them .
Yeah he can’t find any leaks either. But I’d still going through the car continually.
Running mhd stage 2 on 17ts. Litterally drove 20miles with these cheaper i lets and think the turbo blew. Is this possible?
@BMW1M First drive i wasnt pushing it too hard. Suddenly i was getting 0 boost and could hear rattling. Just started it today(cold start) the wastegate was basically screaming.
Hey great vid!!
Looking to upgrade my twins, I’m thinking RB turbos(can’t remember what specific ones). I want to get around 450whp with emphasis on quick spooling. Is RB my best bet for that? I don’t wanna get China turbos but also don’t wanna spend more than 3k
RB has been around the longest. I’m very happy with my flow Max’s. But speak to some venders and see who you get along with the best
@@ZeroTo60Tube do you have the regular flow maxes or the flow max+? Also, do they spool fast? Thanks
@@335kai7 Flow Max +. they spool too fast in an auto. I have mine wound down under 4000rpm. You will effortly blow semi slicks off if you run them hard down low. They will also break a motor pretty easy too. they flow a lot of air.
@@ZeroTo60Tube so I’m not trying to go for big power, under 500wheel, should I go with the regular flow maxs or the pluses? Thanks for the help
@@335kai7 Have a chat to shawn from DAW. I quite like the Plus for the top end, but im pushing 700whp. One thing to keep in mind, when i started my goal was only 500whp. Most people keep moving the goal posts, cos after a couple of months of 500whp it will start to feel slow
Waiting to get my bmw 335i back with 17t turbos, got vrsf upgraded turbo inlets to go with it, only looking to push about 475 whp. Would that be a good target for some reliability?
I hate to be that guy, but reliabilty comes down to how much you put in the to car. If everything was new (injectors, water pump, hoses, radiatior, trans cooler, throttle body, map sensor, plugs, coils and so on), you would be pretty good with a decent fuel system at 475whp for a while. But if the car is 10+ years old and you have only replaced failed parts to this point, simply do not expect reliability.
@@ZeroTo60Tube 🎉
Any update on the blue 135i with the 45 swap?
Nothing new, its been daily driven, i will try and get down to visiti him and do a proper review. He lives 2 hours away from me or i would have done it sooner.
Pretty sure cheap ebay inlets are what killed my rear 17t on my e82. Almost positive my inlet was collapsing at 5.5k RPM with anything over 22psi.
Seems common. A few people have mentioned it now.
Try swapping Scott's intercooler
He has vrsf race.
How come it doesn't let you post a log in the comments.. mine makes 21psi at 3500 not lagging to much
Its youtube blocking auto blocking the link due to spam. A new video will get hit with 10-20 links in the first 2 hours normally, so links when a video is fresh always get pulled. Thats said eventually it will show in my spam folder.
@@ZeroTo60Tube No worries i just want to show my logs to the people to show the 19ts are not to bad cheap power... But it all comes down the the tunner and the right set up. Ive been using ken for a few years now. Now all the JB4 People have seen the light
Pshhhh you are still using that old AIC you're not one of the cool kids yet! Hey also you have the V4 viv dont you?
Hey come on ive never had one issue with the AIC its old school but works if i got a reflex for free i would have one and there V3 19ts Hey Euro day just gone not one BMW out there could even beat my on a hurt motor in fact i didn't lose a race that day fastest 335i n54 out that day..
@@tighematthew haha, hey im running the aic in the flowmax it works!!! The worst part about euro day, was people dont know your motor is hurt! You would have to be 50-100hp down on where it should be. Have you done a 100-200 with the motor like this yet?
Full spool at 2800 rpm 19 tees viv pulling very hard and healthy 👌🏻👌🏻
That’s awesome!
Nugget garage dyno i see, the hoff is a cool guy.....just subd to your channel 0-60, i like it
Thanks for checking it out man!
Very interesting. Something I am curious on is that I've bought my now two month old 17t turbos from ebay and I bought them in a package that included the inlets with them. The inlets are the exact same ones you just showed in this video. They say "1st Racing" on them as well with the re-enforcement in them. They turbos spool up very strong down low at about 2500 RPM or so maybe even earlier. They are so far working perfect (About 1500 KM driven so far) I am, though having INSANE boost leak troubles. Trying to identify where and how the boost is leaking has been crazy. I even bought a different better quality charge pipe from ARM because my ebay cheapies were not sealing right at the intake with the added boost. I also bought the ones that utilize the stock diverter valves because I was convinced the TIAL knock off BOV was leaking as well. Of course the stock Diverter valves can't really handle anything over about 19 or 20 lbs boost and I've been using them like BOV's venting to atmosphere while I'm waiting for my upgraded dual BOV's to arrive off ebay. Meanwhile I've still got huge leak troubles. However I have been using an upgraded 5' stepped intercooler with the factory clip on type connectors to and from the in and out because I took the advice of some video folks that buying the 7.5 intercooler would be a mistake back when I had the OEM turbos still in and now I can't afford to buy that larger intercooler after spending the cash on the turbos. LOL. I am now suspecting that my car is leaking (Always under load while driving and not while revving standing still) at those connections. So after seeing a video from a guy who claims he fixed his boost leak on his 535i by using the white thread sealer tape for air and hydraulic lines etc to upgrade the factory sealing on those clip end connections I'm going to try it today as well. Here's hoping! I also have seen where a guy is using larger after market silicone tubing and just clamping them to his clip on type ends of his 5' stepped intercooler and he says they never leak and he's using the 17t ebay turbos too! But he's having oil leaking trouble at the oil connections on his. I will try this next as I won't have any cash for a long time to spend on $600 plus dollar 7.5 intercooler. (Canadian Dollars) .And don't forget to upgrade your spark plugs to the one or two step colder ones when you do the turbo upgrade. Oh and I've been running MHD with 93 oct fuel.
Same bro check your boost solinoids I cooked mine
I honestly have had the 1 boost leak and it was at the connector to the upgraded intercoler. The O ring inside can potentially slip out if it's groove...
I still have the OEM Diverter valves and they have held up well for nearly 2 years with 20psi peak. Just so you know, they are probably stronger than people suggest. I ordered stringer ones just in case but haven't bothered.
@@Rvssvlle90 I just got my new ones in the mail last week and I'll have them in in the next day or two along with replacement vacuum lines. Thanks for the tip and I'm hoping it's the same for me!
@@cocko1135 Well that's something to go by. I've got my car ready to try and fix the "O" type ring (on mine it's actually a soft type of rubber attached to the outlet going to and from the intercooler. So I'm going to use the sealing tape to try and make them work right like they should again. Here's hopin! Thanks for the help!
@@friguy4444 best of luck Greg. Be wary of the O ring because it can snag when placing the piping over it and when that happens it will roll out if the V groove and then not seal properly. A little oil on the O ring first and then wiggle on works for me. Have fun mate.
I just got 2021 viv t17 hybrids delivered and it appears they where balanced by turbo technics in the uk? anyone had the same?
also the balance shaft has a little play but I guess it will adjust with oil pressure once installed
Everyone has exactly the same balance sheet, its so BS on vivs behalf. Turbo Technics have addressed this fake balance sheet on their facebook page. However in short Turbo Technics do make balance machines for shops, however the machine auto updates the shop name during calibration. So its either a fake sheet, or the machine they are using is not calibrated. Juding by how much it looks like a photocopy, im guessing its just a fake copy of a different balance sheet.
@@ZeroTo60Tube oh 😅..hey on the exhaust blade it looks like it was grinded down a little where the nut bolts on to the shaft, where yours like that too? thanks again for the answers your content is gold good sir.
@@liberatorofminds.3159 Yes yes, the china turbskis are balanced. But just not on a legit turbo technics machine. I just dont like that they try and decieve people.
@@ZeroTo60Tube well I'll slap'em on and see how it goes thanks again 🙏✌️
@@ZeroTo60Tube I got them installed but changed the actuators with original BMW parts I noticed that the Chinese actuators close full at around 11inHg and bmw's around 7, bmw seem to close faster under vacuum, anyways I got them adjusted before installing acording to turbolabs video and now I have wastegate rattle when decelerating very annoying, I already double checked everything hoses even changed the boost solenoids, Is it rattleing because of the downpipes?flow vs (cat backpressure), or should I change the actuators back? sorry to bother you boss.
Watched this for the first time on my iPad, not Apple TV, the links, Wow I know you mention them but don’t access them from the Apple TV please tell the viewers
I'm from Taiwan, will you adjust the MHD map?
My turbo is 19T
He does not do tunes.
I wont touch that. Most of the tuners on the platform dont understand it, i definitely dont want to join the group of people learning on customers cars lol
I had 17T at 32 Psi and they ran hard and they blew up finally after 2k racing only miles
My 19T grenaded the same day they got installed
What fuel were you running? Also how did your motor stay together? Any ideas what timing you were pushing.
Damn, I dissapear for a month due to work and a huuuuge laod of content and things happened.
Best of luck with getting there, we are not that many of a number but we care, I´ll go check the cofee later
Glad to see how the outcome came about with the turbos, its always nice to see reviews in long term with things that were all the blast at some point, have you thought of the review of the dkg with xhp that never came?
Man, that is something i should have done. Now my box needs a clutch, im looking forward to pulling it apart and getting to see how the dual clutches work.
From my research these china 17t,19t aren't actual size they advertise. They pull compressor wheels/maps are from oem replacement turbos for Volvo/Saab they already manufacture. So these compressor wheels are engineered for minimum and operational capacity for those vehicles. All they do is manufacture the n54 chra housings /manifolds. ..and slap in inferior gaskets/thrust bearings .. which cause insufficient oil distribution..pushing seals under load etc That they get away with..but we also need to be aware of the fact were over boosting and abusing the hell out of them lol
Not out rite bashing the options they provide but you have to totally rebuild the unit before install ....(seals, thrust bearing, c clips) $65 x 2 from turbo lab of America rebuild kit(Amazon) and 2hrs rebuilding , check drainage and coolant ports for obstructions to flow. Also always new coolant and oil drainage lines should be... used factory lines can bend and effect flow causing failure. Stick to oem inlets till you get relocated aluminum inlets. Silicone are waste of money. Also id upgrade oil cooling capacity 19 row oil cooler with AN fittings. Enlarged exhaust back pressure will cause problems as well.
They're different tier and longevity of these 17t/19t turbo. Ebay/Viv 0-6mos-1yr there fun to have once you know your keeping it under 600hp but it'll be one season tops lol. Anything higher and your in a race programing with discretionary funding lol
MY 2 Cents .... stack your money to get a mid mount or top mount in the mean time the seasons going lol
I have been pushing my Pure 600’s 17psi(low boost) since June of last year. I’m on an e50 mix but will be turning up the boost when I go PI in a couple months. No issues so far with them🙌🏻🔥
Sounds great!
Hey Andrew so we are flipping early N20s with timing chain problems, kits are dirt cheap in US because of class action. They get great gas mileage
Sounds great!
I brought my 17ts from a guy in China about 3 months before you guys. And my Chinese guy disappeared off the face of the earth. Never read my WhatsApp messages or answered calls too. Mine are still going strong about 35,000kms down.
I wonder if it was the same guy I got mine through. I ordered mine late March or April yesterday.
I’m running 32 psi on 17t and mine are fine but now I’m noticing I’m loosing a pound or 2 from the hit
32psi is good effort. What timing are you running at that boost level?
I have the VIV 11 blade 17T which the internet claims are the worst and will fail, that said its been fine for 6 months so far. I do however have re enforced vrsf inlets, mine are hardly working hard at 20psi, but still enough to beat some expensive machines, check my channel for 135i vs GTR and GR Supra 😉 the spool is good, 20psi by 3400rpm, feels as responsive down low as oem turbos, stock DI is limiting and these cars love a good ethanol mix.
keep it up brother
Thank you, I will
However… well We still never worked it out. 🤣🤣 FELT!
Скажите пожалуйста что выбрать
11 или 6+6 blade?
@BMW1M то есть Китай не нужно покупать?
Мне больше для передвижения по городу
@BMW1M спасибо за совет 😁
I have viv 17t with there inlets running good but I haven’t been hitting full boost cuz my boost solinoids aren’t opening my wastegates enough my wgdc is 25 and it should be around 50 😂
I'm really hoping to hear if someone out there has had a good experience with the 11 blade 19t's.
Runing 19T's 6+6 VIV V3's on a 2007 335i manual with 3.08 ratio diff(openstock), 93oct + Meth(BMS kit) 99% VP M1 through CP activating at 8psi. SPEC STG 3+ clutch.
Dyno 555whp with Jb4+MHD BEF HybridsRace, map3(autotune). 25psi max.
Have done 8000 miles hitting the crap out of them, No smoke, pulls frikin hard (need SF Bushings harder). This my fun car so theres no mercy on those turbos.
100mph in 3rd gear easy at 6k rpm. 140mph in 4th at 5k rpm.
By 3800 rpm in 3rd gear im at 20psi, and 22psi at 4000 (limited by me to 22 in 3rd).
4t & 5th gear reach 25 psi at 4200rpm.
Ive been running mine for a year and zero issues, no smoke, running 20psi. 11 blade 19t
Getting ready to install mine shortly. 19t v4 11 blade on an 07 6MT e92. Follow to see how it goes! I will be documenting everything!
I love mine I’m only on 18psi boost on off shelf MHD and my car rips. 2” inlet and outlets are Berger stock airbox with k&n filter
@@michaelhawk187 nice! So they’re performing well on the OTS map?
If you wish to sell them am interested
so i shouldn't get 17T's now? my stock turbos are blown :/
Allow about 100 hours of research to start to understand turbos.
Thought about them as a cheap solution to the TTE600‘s here in europe, here at us nobody realy gave the 17T‘s a chance so no user reports of them :/ you were fascinated and now yeah 🥲🥲
What do you recommend me???... 17t o 19t?
I like my 17ts.
So Andrew did you sell the Flow Max car already? If not are you still going to sell it? I really wish you wouldn't if so. I was looking forward to seeing that baby doing some roll racing and fun stuff after the build was all done. In the end it's your car and you can do what you like. But that's what I'd love to see. No matter, I love the other car too! LOL.
I havent sold the flowmax car, a lot of people expressed how much they want to see more of it. However i really do need to sell it. Then again it all depends on of getting some companies to advertise on the channel
17t 6 Blades or 11 Blades??????
@BMW1M You recomend 19t v3 o 17t? Saludos from argentina n54 4 life ! ❤️
I just gotta say I’m running my 17ts at 28psi idk how they are alive still lol @n54doc
First as always ❤️🙏🏻
Beat me by 8 seconds 😂 Dammit
I’m really puzzled to why a M1 owner would install China shit on such a nice car?? I understand why the channel does/did as it was the foundation to the channel. Anyway all the best with finding a new location, I’m sure with the determination you guys have you’ll make something happen 🤘
Well now I'm not sure I want to get these because you literally said you went through two engines. I don't want to replace engines just to go faster
Make it 3. Making over 500hp with 6 cylinders will never be reliable.
@@ZeroTo60Tube you must have been pushing it to its limits. You should be able to do 600 horsepower and not have to worry about blowing the block or sending a rod through it