That’s nice of you to say! I know exactly what you mean, I had a similar realization about 0-crossing when I was watching an ARTFX stream where he was talking about noise sine basses. That feeling of brain gates unlocking is the best. Glad you found it helpful!
Quick tip: use a triangle wave instead of a sine and have that’s running through a LPF with a tight filter envelope. Same setup as a sine kick but with that added step. A lot of the harmonics you’re referring to are coming from a triangle. I also find layering a really tight bandpassed pink noise with the nonlinear filter running a drive algorithm can give you a really nice organic click that layers into the kick perfectly. Also, now that Shaper is out try that on your kicks with the Concave shape. Turn DC off and drive it pretty hot. When I launch my YT I’ll do a video on it.
Will update the description, thanks for letting me know Peter! Snare: 1drv.ms/u/s!AonhoPPUFh3siMJJwbmQ5Z2GR8EpHg?e=aAw3NT Kick: 1drv.ms/u/s!AonhoPPUFh3siMNAqxyzLMDqCf8N0Q?e=YhSXPy Sorry for the broken links. I am currently just linking my cloud backup for my preset library which I guess can change when I re-organize. I'll need to figure out something more permanent for future videos.
Man, the trick where you isolated the harmonics to just the rising/falling sections of the waveform, and kept them away from the crests, do you know how to do this outside of Phase Plant using effects?
Yes it's doable outside Phase Plant - although since it requires parallel processing you might need to use your DAW to do the routing as I don't know of many synths outside of Phase Plant that offer this type of parallel processing. But there are (at least) two ways to do it. The first way is by saturation the harmonics with the fundamental and then removing the fundamental. Chain 1: Fundamental Chain 2: Copy of Fundamental + Harmonics -> distortion -> high pass filter Chain 1 and chain 2 get added together in parallel and then processed as desired. The other way is with amplitude modulation. I haven't done this outside ableton, but I've heard of ring modulators with a side chain input that can do this. Essentially when the crest of the wave is high you want the AM/RM to lower the volume of the harmonic. And when the crest of the wave is low the AM/RM lets the full harmonic pass through. I'm not sure if I am able to be very helpful with these replies since I don't know what tools you would be using. Let me know if it works or if you get stuck, I am curious about how this would be implemented outside Phase Plant.
@@astrobearmusic1977 I've been messing around with the Melda MAmp and MRingModulator plugins as they have sidechain input, no luck yet. In fact I am getting the opposite, the harmonics are more prominent on the wavforms peaks!
@@F4xP4s sounds like you are halfway there though! I think the sidechain input needs to be processed so that it’s peak occurs during the zero crossing of the fundamental. In the video I made a separate oscillator for this which is 1 - absolute_value(fundamental). Or in audio engineering terms it is rectified and then dc offset is added. It seems like it could be a bit of a pain if the ring mod doesn’t have this built in. I’ve been getting into building custom effects with Max4Live and am thinking of trying to implement this effect so you just put the fundamental as the sidechain input and it automatically works (rectifier and dc offset is built in). If I get it working I’ll let you know. Do you use Ableton by any chance?
@@astrobearmusic1977 Yes, I use Ableton, not dug much into M4L but I do want to! I like the sound of what you are describing. I've been doing a bit of research and I'm wondering if some sort of window function could work? i.e., the window occurs at every zero crossing and allows a certain amount of the waveform through up to a certain amplitude threshold either side - no idea how to implement this though! Just a thought, but I'm doodling a few ideas of how I'd want the processed sidechain signal to look like and some hypothetical parameters that can adjust the resultant form. Parameters could include a lower and upper threshold, and some sort of graphical representation would be handy too! I think it would be useful to have an oscillator modulator with adjustable frequency etc. (perhaps even go as far as a full blown synthesis engine for wacky sound design, like different waveforms and FM etc.) and an audio sidechain input to.
you can do more or less the same thing by running your fundamental and your harmonics into a clipper and optionally taking out some of the fundamental with a low shelf
hello everyone, here I have a problem when I do my kick drums... when I hit a key, the attack of the kick is never the same... (as if I had random phase. ..however the setting seems correct: 0⁰+-0) .... small clarification, for the pitch envelope I use a bpm delink curve... I can't find the solution to my problem
I mean the quickest solution is going to be to render one sample out and throw it in a sampler, assuming you aren’t intending to automate anything else throughout the track. As far as actually solving the root cause it might lie in the software itself and require phase plant devs to rework things.
It could possibly have to do with dithering/UA-cam’s compression especially since those kicks are basically redlining. But honestly I am not sure - nothing is intentionally random in the phase plant patches including the oscillator phase start. And of course the two kick channels have different variation - but I think you are noticing differences each time it hits?
@@astrobearmusic1977 Yeah I noticed a slight difference in the transient each time it hit (for both channels individually). Do you hear it too? I was curious if you're random phase wasn't set to 0 or something, thanks for clarifying that
@@daniel-jerrehianI do notice it although it is subtle - you have keen ears I rendered out the audio and the samples phase cancel so seems it’s definitely something downstream. Now you have me very curious to chase down the cause.
@@astrobearmusic1977 heheh I’m on my personal account but I’m an artist and sound engineer too. That’s good you tested that they cancel, I wonder what it is then? Playing normal songs on UA-cam doesn’t cause that so it’s something with your video
@@daniel-jerrehian have the same reaction, it's like there is a randomisation of the phase (a bit like in serum random phase) where sometimes the samples doesn't start at zero
just get SP Drummer, and pitch up a snare hit, then layer it under the synth snare you made, you wont get the sound close unless you mix the two, they have a tutorial where they show you 100% how they make snares in the Patreon, sign up just for that for the month its worth it!
Totally I am on their patreon and know I’m using completely different tools/methods. I guess it’s more of a walkthrough of how I reverse engineer fundamentals of drums using noisia as an example. The perfect snare sample would really complete this. I use addictive drums, do you think that can get there as well?
@@4chan-Crypto awesome! AD does offer mixing different mics like top/bottom snare - but I’m sure there are other differences. I will check it out later thanks for the rec mate!
Kick 2 is good - but it’s more of a UI difference than a functional difference. Not that UI isn’t important for creativity, but it’s kind of like saying you should use Cubase if you want to sound like Noisia, when really any DAW will do the trick.
Yeah it would be great if we could share more easily. Minimal audios platform looks like they might be headed that way although I haven’t tried it. Happy to send you the preset if you are interested though.
Yeah clipping on the master bus could cause some subtle differences, especially if there were any reverb sends, EQs, or limiters in the chain on a drum bus or master bus. I would say there is potentially good things and bad things for clipping pre-limiter, pre-EQ, and pre-reverb-send, so it’s good to have both methods in your toolkit and use them as suits the sample / song. Since I was trying to make a patch I can just drop in without rendering, I just clipped on the patch itself for convenience.
@@astrobearmusic1977 Fair point. But, what I mean is that I think it's more effective to have an unclipped Kick/Snare mixed with the rest of the track, possibly a bit too hot, then clip it at the end during mastering. I think that results in a more cohesive alround track. There are no rules though, each to their own!
@@F4xP4s Yeah good point, clipping with a full mix will give a different result as well and you could say it is a more “cohesive” way to clip. Since I was looking at snares from Noisia’s sample pack rather than from a mastered song , it would seem they clip their samples at some stage unmixed from the master. But whatever gives you the best results! For another point of reference I remember watching an AHEE video where he analyzed a skrillex project in excruciating detail and found that skrillex clips at several stages, like track level - bus level - master level. And I think there were even several stages of busses that each got clipped.
@@F4xP4sissue with this method is you introduce intermodulation distortion on the peaks, and you’ll cause a sort of pumping even with clipping. Follow the clip-to-zero method by Baphometrix. Solid approach.
honestly, probably the best video on kick drums i've seen, the 0-crossing processing, lets say, unlocked a lot of gates in my brain
That’s nice of you to say! I know exactly what you mean, I had a similar realization about 0-crossing when I was watching an ARTFX stream where he was talking about noise sine basses. That feeling of brain gates unlocking is the best. Glad you found it helpful!
Quick tip: use a triangle wave instead of a sine and have that’s running through a LPF with a tight filter envelope. Same setup as a sine kick but with that added step. A lot of the harmonics you’re referring to are coming from a triangle. I also find layering a really tight bandpassed pink noise with the nonlinear filter running a drive algorithm can give you a really nice organic click that layers into the kick perfectly. Also, now that Shaper is out try that on your kicks with the Concave shape. Turn DC off and drive it pretty hot. When I launch my YT I’ll do a video on it.
Im waiting for a particular tutorial 😀
Hey man, brilliant tutorial. Please can you share the phase plant preset, the posted link is stale. Thanks again!
Will update the description, thanks for letting me know Peter!
Snare: 1drv.ms/u/s!AonhoPPUFh3siMJJwbmQ5Z2GR8EpHg?e=aAw3NT
Kick: 1drv.ms/u/s!AonhoPPUFh3siMNAqxyzLMDqCf8N0Q?e=YhSXPy
Sorry for the broken links. I am currently just linking my cloud backup for my preset library which I guess can change when I re-organize. I'll need to figure out something more permanent for future videos.
Thanks for the updated links, however when I load the presets into a new updated install of phase plant they are empty, not sure why?
Big up! Great vid.
Thanks mate!
What's the name of the spectrum at the top?
Check out minimeters. It does all the metering at the top bar and is only 10 bucks!
My only complaint with it is that you can’t freeze/zoom in.
Psyscope by fx23 is also very sick, it has freeze and all that and you can vieuw layers
@@rbw9692 oh wow this tool looks super useful. Thanks for the rec!
Man, the trick where you isolated the harmonics to just the rising/falling sections of the waveform, and kept them away from the crests, do you know how to do this outside of Phase Plant using effects?
Yes it's doable outside Phase Plant - although since it requires parallel processing you might need to use your DAW to do the routing as I don't know of many synths outside of Phase Plant that offer this type of parallel processing.
But there are (at least) two ways to do it. The first way is by saturation the harmonics with the fundamental and then removing the fundamental.
Chain 1: Fundamental
Chain 2: Copy of Fundamental + Harmonics -> distortion -> high pass filter
Chain 1 and chain 2 get added together in parallel and then processed as desired.
The other way is with amplitude modulation. I haven't done this outside ableton, but I've heard of ring modulators with a side chain input that can do this. Essentially when the crest of the wave is high you want the AM/RM to lower the volume of the harmonic. And when the crest of the wave is low the AM/RM lets the full harmonic pass through.
I'm not sure if I am able to be very helpful with these replies since I don't know what tools you would be using. Let me know if it works or if you get stuck, I am curious about how this would be implemented outside Phase Plant.
@@astrobearmusic1977 I've been messing around with the Melda MAmp and MRingModulator plugins as they have sidechain input, no luck yet. In fact I am getting the opposite, the harmonics are more prominent on the wavforms peaks!
@@F4xP4s sounds like you are halfway there though! I think the sidechain input needs to be processed so that it’s peak occurs during the zero crossing of the fundamental. In the video I made a separate oscillator for this which is 1 - absolute_value(fundamental). Or in audio engineering terms it is rectified and then dc offset is added. It seems like it could be a bit of a pain if the ring mod doesn’t have this built in.
I’ve been getting into building custom effects with Max4Live and am thinking of trying to implement this effect so you just put the fundamental as the sidechain input and it automatically works (rectifier and dc offset is built in). If I get it working I’ll let you know. Do you use Ableton by any chance?
@@astrobearmusic1977 Yes, I use Ableton, not dug much into M4L but I do want to!
I like the sound of what you are describing. I've been doing a bit of research and I'm wondering if some sort of window function could work? i.e., the window occurs at every zero crossing and allows a certain amount of the waveform through up to a certain amplitude threshold either side - no idea how to implement this though!
Just a thought, but I'm doodling a few ideas of how I'd want the processed sidechain signal to look like and some hypothetical parameters that can adjust the resultant form. Parameters could include a lower and upper threshold, and some sort of graphical representation would be handy too!
I think it would be useful to have an oscillator modulator with adjustable frequency etc. (perhaps even go as far as a full blown synthesis engine for wacky sound design, like different waveforms and FM etc.) and an audio sidechain input to.
you can do more or less the same thing by running your fundamental and your harmonics into a clipper and optionally taking out some of the fundamental with a low shelf
By the way you can turn off the fades on clip edges in preferences if you want
Thank you so much!!! That will save me a lot of time
@@astrobearmusic1977 Anytime man, sick video :)
hello everyone, here I have a problem when I do my kick drums... when I hit a key, the attack of the kick is never the same... (as if I had random phase. ..however the setting seems correct: 0⁰+-0) ....
small clarification, for the pitch envelope I use a bpm delink curve... I can't find the solution to my problem
I mean the quickest solution is going to be to render one sample out and throw it in a sampler, assuming you aren’t intending to automate anything else throughout the track.
As far as actually solving the root cause it might lie in the software itself and require phase plant devs to rework things.
How come the transient of the two kick channels sounded different each time during the demo at 1:30?
It could possibly have to do with dithering/UA-cam’s compression especially since those kicks are basically redlining. But honestly I am not sure - nothing is intentionally random in the phase plant patches including the oscillator phase start.
And of course the two kick channels have different variation - but I think you are noticing differences each time it hits?
@@astrobearmusic1977 Yeah I noticed a slight difference in the transient each time it hit (for both channels individually). Do you hear it too?
I was curious if you're random phase wasn't set to 0 or something, thanks for clarifying that
@@daniel-jerrehianI do notice it although it is subtle - you have keen ears
I rendered out the audio and the samples phase cancel so seems it’s definitely something downstream. Now you have me very curious to chase down the cause.
@@astrobearmusic1977 heheh I’m on my personal account but I’m an artist and sound engineer too. That’s good you tested that they cancel, I wonder what it is then?
Playing normal songs on UA-cam doesn’t cause that so it’s something with your video
@@daniel-jerrehian have the same reaction, it's like there is a randomisation of the phase (a bit like in serum random phase) where sometimes the samples doesn't start at zero
just get SP Drummer, and pitch up a snare hit, then layer it under the synth snare you made, you wont get the sound close unless you mix the two, they have a tutorial where they show you 100% how they make snares in the Patreon, sign up just for that for the month its worth it!
Totally I am on their patreon and know I’m using completely different tools/methods. I guess it’s more of a walkthrough of how I reverse engineer fundamentals of drums using noisia as an example. The perfect snare sample would really complete this. I use addictive drums, do you think that can get there as well?
@@astrobearmusic1977 SP Drummer has the most control, i.e split between, top and bottom / tones of the snare, i think AD drums can't do that!
@@4chan-Crypto awesome! AD does offer mixing different mics like top/bottom snare - but I’m sure there are other differences. I will check it out later thanks for the rec mate!
No link to their patreon? They have tutorials on how they do everything.
Will add the link!
Good man
awesome video!
Pro tip: use the Plugin Kick 2 which was used many times by noisia to create their kick sounds
Kick 2 is good - but it’s more of a UI difference than a functional difference. Not that UI isn’t important for creativity, but it’s kind of like saying you should use Cubase if you want to sound like Noisia, when really any DAW will do the trick.
This is so helpful thank you SO much!😊
Happy to hear you found it helpful!
U got a great channel mate keep goin
I appreciate the support! Trying to keep up with weekly tutorials - and honestly having a lot of fun doing it.
Imho task horizon are on top in terms of audio engineering in the dnb scene
Thanks for the recommendation!
@@astrobearmusic1977 ua-cam.com/video/hGmE-mgpBfg/v-deo.html
nice one!
Thank you!
elite tutorial!!
if only this plugin could load all the presets other people made and shared, you'd have thousands of kick drums and snares
Yeah it would be great if we could share more easily. Minimal audios platform looks like they might be headed that way although I haven’t tried it. Happy to send you the preset if you are interested though.
The clipping most probably occurs on the master bus
Yeah clipping on the master bus could cause some subtle differences, especially if there were any reverb sends, EQs, or limiters in the chain on a drum bus or master bus. I would say there is potentially good things and bad things for clipping pre-limiter, pre-EQ, and pre-reverb-send, so it’s good to have both methods in your toolkit and use them as suits the sample / song. Since I was trying to make a patch I can just drop in without rendering, I just clipped on the patch itself for convenience.
@@astrobearmusic1977 Fair point. But, what I mean is that I think it's more effective to have an unclipped Kick/Snare mixed with the rest of the track, possibly a bit too hot, then clip it at the end during mastering. I think that results in a more cohesive alround track. There are no rules though, each to their own!
@@F4xP4s Yeah good point, clipping with a full mix will give a different result as well and you could say it is a more “cohesive” way to clip. Since I was looking at snares from Noisia’s sample pack rather than from a mastered song , it would seem they clip their samples at some stage unmixed from the master. But whatever gives you the best results!
For another point of reference I remember watching an AHEE video where he analyzed a skrillex project in excruciating detail and found that skrillex clips at several stages, like track level - bus level - master level. And I think there were even several stages of busses that each got clipped.
I recall Nik saying in a tutorial they barely clip the master
@@F4xP4sissue with this method is you introduce intermodulation distortion on the peaks, and you’ll cause a sort of pumping even with clipping. Follow the clip-to-zero method by Baphometrix. Solid approach.