I've been trying to make "Metal Gear Solid" missions in Arma for a few years, so maybe I can share some details. It's true that "magical hit spotting" works across groups, it's worked like this for a long time, but last time I checked, line of sight blocked it (I was complaining on BI forums to AI developers, with a video showing a magical 80m distance). This doesn't seem to be the case anymore and the shooter is revealed regardless of LoS. I've tried hacking this (forgetTarget on the same frame), but there's no easy way. A quick comparison on v2.02 I recorded just now: ua-cam.com/video/CRak9Xil69M/v-deo.html From it, you can also see that "headshots" are very situational, the magical spotting doesn't apply, but audibleFire of the CfgAmmo (reduced by the CfgWeapons suppressor) does, which is what I tweak in my arma-additions ( github.com/freghar/arma-additions/blob/master/addons/misc_tiny_configs/suppressors/config.cpp - used to be much neater when BI had reasonable class inheritance), so that at least headshots are reliably silent, especially indoors on multi-story buildings. Couple that with low "camouflage" / "audible" of a CfgVehicles soldier (or setUnitTrait these days) and you can have a pretty feasible Splinter Cell style mission - ua-cam.com/video/wWKtZHvHcyY/v-deo.html (the player soldier also has reduced footstep/gear sounds). One curious thought is that the magical hit spotting does differ between CfgAmmo used, so maybe there is some tunable to be tuned. "dangerRadiusHit = 12;" is pretty obviously not it (unless it gets multiplied), so maybe it is calculated from "hit", which would suck. Regarding ACE Medical: yes, I've reported this years ago, github.com/acemod/ACE3/issues/4215 , and it has been finally fixed quite recently, though I like to remove the HandleDamage EH from AI on my stealth missions anyway: github.com/freghar/arma-additions/blob/master/addons/editor_extensions/remove_ace_eh/fn_setupClassEH.sqf Anyway, good luck!
So I did a quick test and the "magical hit spotting" is indeed unfortunately based on the "hit" value of CfgAmmo, however there does seem to a magical value there - default for 6.5mm is 10, and down to 6.3 it does alert everyone in 80m, but hit=6.2 does not alert anyone, even as close as 2m (after setting dangerRadius* and audibleFire to very low values). Weird. ... edit: It's based on target receiving damage, github.com/freghar/arma-additions/issues/27 .
8:51 Notice that knowsAbout doesn't immediately drop. So conceivably, the entire EAST side 'knows' that something fishy is going on at this location concerning myself. That is an example of the AI information sharing outside modded control. Also worth noticing that the AI does not 'hear' doors opening.
Awesome! Thanks for testing this out since I always wondered about detection with lambs. Would it be much more different with CF_BAI (and Re:CamoSys) added to the mix since they respectively make nearby foliage and uniforms effective? Despite CF_BAI extending AI to human view range, of course. I can vouch that non-headshots on enemies can allow them to info-share around them. Though if I were to disable Lamb's info-sharing in CBA would it give a scenario similar to the second half of the video even if those enemies were in the same group?
How does implementing lambs effect these testing? If there is say a 3 man patrol all taken out with headshots would they communicate that information to another group “X” distance away?
That's a good question. The LAMBS Communication feature is timed and subject to suppression. In other words: you wouldn't even need to instantly kill them, just adequately suppress them until you dispatch the enemy.
@@HAL90000 Keep in mind that this is written for a specific scenario with a named 'group1'. YT comment field may also distort code: [] spawn { while {true} do { sleep 0.1; hintSilent format ["knowsAbout: %1 Distance: %2m", east knowsAbout player, ((leader group1) getHideFrom Player) distance player]; }; }; end
I've been trying to make "Metal Gear Solid" missions in Arma for a few years, so maybe I can share some details.
It's true that "magical hit spotting" works across groups, it's worked like this for a long time, but last time I checked, line of sight blocked it (I was complaining on BI forums to AI developers, with a video showing a magical 80m distance). This doesn't seem to be the case anymore and the shooter is revealed regardless of LoS. I've tried hacking this (forgetTarget on the same frame), but there's no easy way.
A quick comparison on v2.02 I recorded just now: ua-cam.com/video/CRak9Xil69M/v-deo.html
From it, you can also see that "headshots" are very situational, the magical spotting doesn't apply, but audibleFire of the CfgAmmo (reduced by the CfgWeapons suppressor) does, which is what I tweak in my arma-additions ( github.com/freghar/arma-additions/blob/master/addons/misc_tiny_configs/suppressors/config.cpp - used to be much neater when BI had reasonable class inheritance), so that at least headshots are reliably silent, especially indoors on multi-story buildings.
Couple that with low "camouflage" / "audible" of a CfgVehicles soldier (or setUnitTrait these days) and you can have a pretty feasible Splinter Cell style mission - ua-cam.com/video/wWKtZHvHcyY/v-deo.html (the player soldier also has reduced footstep/gear sounds).
One curious thought is that the magical hit spotting does differ between CfgAmmo used, so maybe there is some tunable to be tuned. "dangerRadiusHit = 12;" is pretty obviously not it (unless it gets multiplied), so maybe it is calculated from "hit", which would suck.
Regarding ACE Medical: yes, I've reported this years ago, github.com/acemod/ACE3/issues/4215 , and it has been finally fixed quite recently, though I like to remove the HandleDamage EH from AI on my stealth missions anyway: github.com/freghar/arma-additions/blob/master/addons/editor_extensions/remove_ace_eh/fn_setupClassEH.sqf
Anyway, good luck!
So I did a quick test and the "magical hit spotting" is indeed unfortunately based on the "hit" value of CfgAmmo, however there does seem to a magical value there - default for 6.5mm is 10, and down to 6.3 it does alert everyone in 80m, but hit=6.2 does not alert anyone, even as close as 2m (after setting dangerRadius* and audibleFire to very low values). Weird. ... edit: It's based on target receiving damage, github.com/freghar/arma-additions/issues/27 .
LAMBS is a fantastic piece of work. So glad someone is diving deep into the AI like you are. Keep up the fine work!
Glad to see you again.
There's a so nice video. It opens a lot of possibilities for me in the mission creation.
That’s very interesting, never knew the AI was this in-depth.
Thank you for this video, will help me on my antistasi run.
8:51 Notice that knowsAbout doesn't immediately drop. So conceivably, the entire EAST side 'knows' that something fishy is going on at this location concerning myself. That is an example of the AI information sharing outside modded control.
Also worth noticing that the AI does not 'hear' doors opening.
ha that typical arma moment @1:34 casual to instant supression of your area after 1 round
That's why you drop in LAMBS_Suppression module as well. Which wasn't featured in this test. ;)
LAMBS AI makes me say yes
Awesome! Thanks for testing this out since I always wondered about detection with lambs.
Would it be much more different with CF_BAI (and Re:CamoSys) added to the mix since they respectively make nearby foliage and uniforms effective? Despite CF_BAI extending AI to human view range, of course.
I can vouch that non-headshots on enemies can allow them to info-share around them. Though if I were to disable Lamb's info-sharing in CBA would it give a scenario similar to the second half of the video even if those enemies were in the same group?
How playable is this in single player?
How does implementing lambs effect these testing? If there is say a 3 man patrol all taken out with headshots would they communicate that information to another group “X” distance away?
That's a good question. The LAMBS Communication feature is timed and subject to suppression. In other words: you wouldn't even need to instantly kill them, just adequately suppress them until you dispatch the enemy.
What is this mode?
Very interesting. By the way, how do you show the debug information of the top right corner?
Just a simple script written for this testing scenario.
@@KenMikkelsen Excuse my ignorance, but whats the script in question?
@@HAL90000 Keep in mind that this is written for a specific scenario with a named 'group1'. YT comment field may also distort code:
[] spawn {
while {true} do {
sleep 0.1;
hintSilent format ["knowsAbout: %1
Distance: %2m", east knowsAbout player, ((leader group1) getHideFrom Player) distance player];
};
};
end
@@KenMikkelsen Thanks a lot!