I've always wanted to see a demonstration of what proper gear-to-gear contact looked like- you raised my comfort level with this procedure immensely- thanks!
this is about the 20th vid ive watched and by far the most helpful. really liked that 0.010 of shim = 0.007 of movement comment, probably saved me another hour of googling...
Very informative, I’m gonna be doing the gears for my car myself and been watching video after video, I’m still psyching myself out on it and this video did bring my comfort level to were I feel I can do it myself.
o crap ive been watching videos on YT for hrs and i got to say you used the less professional tools and you are the one that got the closes to getting the right pattern nice game me inspiration to do mine on my own
I would think, a contact pattern, would tell you more about whether you have your ring and pinion aligned correctly, even than checking backlash with a gauge.
good video where are your spider gears? and what about the lube? i just took one apart and the bearings had failed, no shims just 2 thick spacers. there was evidence the lube had broken down, all the surfaces were coated with black sludge and the lube was quite thin. should i doubt synthetic ? 140w
Summit racing sales a crush washer that easily crushes. I personally used it twice with no issues. Used my impact while holding the socket and bumped it a little at a time until it was perfect. Otherwise you need two people to do the job.
I didn't know you could do set up, with no crush sleeve at all . I don't think I would bother with the dial indicator, if I had to hold it by hand, I'd have to make sure I hadn't had any coffee, before trying that. I found the same thing you did, about checking the backlash, without having the carrier torqued down, and it makes sense, because when torqued, it's going to force the ring gear further into the pinon.
i had my 1996 grand marquis gs for 10 years now i got it back in 2011 and i never changed the gear oil but i have the gear oil but now i have play in my differential cause when i put it in reverse it makes a clunking sound and when i put it in drive it makes another noise but other than that it rides fine my differential isn't making any noise but i want that clunking sound to stop every time i put it in gear so i want to know what i have to do to fix that problem i don't want to buy another rear end
No need put pinion in freezer. Just heat the bearing will do. I used an old milk can an put the bearing on top while heating with my torch. I used my left hand to slowly turn the bearing so the heat is applied all around the inner bearing center.
@@alcyon2sp freezing the pinon wont hurt the heat treatment of the metal, Over heating the bearing will. So freezing the pinion just gives you the ability to do the same thing at a lower temp vs just heating the bearing, just a safer way to do it.
Beautiful demo and professional work. I have a 9" I am swapping the full spool out for a Yukon Trac-Lok differential. Would Yukons torque specs for the ring gear be different then Ford's 97 ft pound torque specs? I have the spanner adjuster and not the shims. Question? How did you set the carrier bearing preload? Thanks for sharing, appreciate your dedication to excellence. Cheers from Motown!
thanks for the upload. ive removed my pinion seal and have a slight side to side movement of the pinion itself. if i replace the crush sleave do i have to reset the backlash or just the pinion preload? thanks
I'm an idiot. While disassembling the differential the oil was sludge which distracted me from marking the left and right side bearing cap. Is there a way to determine which cap goes on the left and which goes on the left?
As long as they are still in the groups they started in and weren't combined / mixed together, it should be obvious if you switch sides. Way too loose, or way too tight. I have a checklist set up to measure and write down each pack-up of shims as I remove them. Hope this helped.
Hey +neutered10mm mechanic changed the pinion seal on my 8.8 by removing the pinion nut without counting threats or caring about the preload, then he putted it back on with a impact wrench making it so tight that the wheels wouldn't even spin, then he loose the nut up and torque it back in, now the gears whine in between 30 to 40 mph, what should I do at this point? re-install the pinion with a new installation kit (washe, crush-sleeve and barings) ?
I'd remove the nut, crush washer and seal and then replace them ... you might be able to get by without redoing the seal though ... check for leaks first. Replace the crush washer and nut and torque to spec and you should be good to go. The whine is most likely from the pinion depth going to shit once he over torqued the nut and over crushed the washer. It's possible to do that in-vehichle without dropping anything, but it's a total PITA and I'd highly recommend a lift as getting enough torque to crush that washing under the vehicle on your back will be next to impossible.
Narciso Veloz you are going thane a lot of noise. You will hear a constant humming sound when driving and the faster you go it will humm louder. Also you will hear a clunking sound when starting and stopping. Not good. This is a precision piece of equipment and I would suggest that someone who specializes in diffe do the work. It's not something you want to be throwing together. You shouldn't do what this guy did either. You need to press the bearings on properly and not hammer it period. His paint pattern is not the best. It will wear faster.
Correct, but keep in mind that not everyone has a press or the means to pay someone to do the job. It's possible to do this in your driveway if need be, but you must get the pattern good before proceeding. 2 years on now and not an issue with my locker, which works wonders in soft sand and snow. I'll more than likely be replacing it with a Torsen LSD next year as the lunchbox locker it a bit noisy in parking lots and doesn't like to release traction and chirps the tires around slow corners on dry pavement ... again, mostly in parking lots and shopping centers.
@@robpeters5204 I have had numerous Ford F150s over the years. Two things are a constant: 1. After lifts and tires, I always get 8-10 MPG, and 2. Every one of them - including the 2010 I have now have so much slop in the drivetrain that it sounds like a bowling ball rolling loose in the bed. The next Diff rebuild / re-gear I do will hopefully improve both of those problems. Thanks for the great video series.
I was replacing them with a lunchbox locker, but having them in for this setup isn't required. They add no resistance to affect the setting without the axles in.
Well I set my pinion preload at 20 foot pounds and when I set everything back in there just to check the ring gear won't move it's really hard is that suppose to happen or am I setting it too tight..
Please tell me that 20 FOOT Pounds was a typo ... it's supposed to be around 20 INCH pounds and would definitely explain your issues if that wasn't a typo.
+John Solar 283 ™ Factory manual and a class or two about 20 years ago ... haven't touched a ring & pinion since, but once I started reading the shop manuals it all came back to me.
+heavylead1961 LOL, no kidding! The most time consuming is the shim shuffle if you don't nail it out of the gate. I'm just glad that my pinion shim was spot on right off though as getting to replace it and then redoing the preload is also time consuming.
neutered10mm 4 things i won't do...welding, gas lines in the house, cement, and rear ends!!! and the reason i won't do them is i have to take them to someone that knows what they are doing, because they charge me double for fixing my f- ups LOL
There are a lot of resources for this, but it should be included in the ring/pinion sheet when you get them new. Here is a good starting point (for this particular ring/pinion maker) www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/set-up-specs/ (0.011" - 0.016") but keep in mind that differs from the Ford Racing spec in their race ring install guide here performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-4209-8.pdf (0.008" - 0.012") ... so it's really dependent on the manufacturer of the diff components. IIRC, I used a Yukon Gear setup and their specs are here www.yukongear.com/downloads/manuals/yukon_general_installation_instructions.pdf
Thank you for you respond and the web info I have the information that I need .... I’m doing by my self the ring & and pinion actually I’m upgrading my diff gears on a Hummer H2 you video and others are really helping me a lot thank you again I’m doing a front locker too .! Keep the posting
@@Georgehanes-GJH105775 I have used wood before a time or two, but I was wondering why you wouldn't use a shorter piece of wood that would offer the cushion but with more control of the piece than that long 2x4. Just an observation.
@@rickdebacker100 I agree with you on that. Laying a shorter piece sideways lets you tilt the longer ends a little better, and absorbs some, but less of the impact. Personally I prefer the edge grain to be in contact over end grain due to less sawdust, but instead usually just use a bearing press with a brass plate/aluminium pipe as a little cusion. If a bearing press isn't an option the first is a happy compromise, add that 12$ aluminium pipe so you don't risk bending the bearing cage if the wood deforms too much and you aren't using an old bearing in between. I have '2" OD x 1/8" Wall 6061 T6 ALUMINUM Round Tube 24" long Seamless 1.75 ID' in my ebay purchase history that I think I've with my bearing press to do the carrier bearings and/or the pinion bearings of a few of these 8.8s, if you have access to a bearing press this will make it easy.
As a guy who builds differentials for semi trucks for a living I am almost sick watching this video. Your pattern is way to far on the outside for one. You have way too much backlash. Never ever grind the inside of your bearings and don't use a piece of wood to seat your bearings! Do not put your pattern paint on until your backlash is within spec. It is always best to use more oil than not enough. Whether a gear seat is new or used you must check for burs. Use a deadblow not a regular hammer. And actually put the micrometer on the tooth! With a stand so it won't be moving. Good effort, bad planing
It calls for 8-16 backlash! Stick to Semi trucks. As the Ford Factory knows how they want it done. Not to mention this will wear in out towards the heel!
cjay mac i can not find your bad ass ford 8.8 diff rebuild video, it looks like your channel is blank because you spend your time just talking shit about other peoples helpful videos... i do agree he needs to use a micrometer stand, but 0.010 backlash is spot on. not all diffs have the same backlash the semi trucks you work on. the gears were probably (hopefully) ground down just setup bearings, he did say at the end to press on the bearings
As someone who runs a rebuilding facility and 22+ years building both light duty and semi differentials that pinion could have definitely been a little deeper (and a little lower on the drive side). Patterns should be checked with resistance, always. As far as grinding the ID of bearings, I have a huge drawer dedicated to them (for setup purposes only) that I use without a crush sleeve until depth is set and I'm ready for final assembly. The bearing cones (with the cages and bearings removed) all have a cut in them to use as bearing pressing tools for both pinion and carrier bearings that I use to press on the new bearing cones on without causing any stress to the new bearings. I would never use wood to drive them on, I use press plates with a press or hammer after a minute on a bearing heater. Some light duty rears are shimmed underneath the bearings so we have to keep test bearings for that purpose.
@@nicholasd4838 man I loved the bearing heater at my last job. Made things so much easier. I'm not trying to bash anyone but I've used hot oil bath in a pinch...would be better than bfh and wood.
I was thinking the same about the depth of the pattern. Exactly what change (direction) in shims will increase the depth without sacrificing the other factors? Thank you in advance.
Great video, I'm glad to see there is someone else who does car maintenance stuff on their reloading bench.
You sir deserve an award or something. That was the best explanation I've seen. Thank you.
I've always wanted to see a demonstration of what proper gear-to-gear contact looked like- you raised my comfort level with this procedure immensely- thanks!
Finally!!! A video without all the BLAH BLAH BLAH!! Right to the point, good views!! THANKS!!!
This video helped me rebuild my differential & set the pinion preload correctly. Thank you for taking the time to create this.
Ditto on all the prior positives. I also respect how clean you are when working.
this is about the 20th vid ive watched and by far the most helpful. really liked that 0.010 of shim = 0.007 of movement comment, probably saved me another hour of googling...
Very informative, I’m gonna be doing the gears for my car myself and been watching video after video, I’m still psyching myself out on it and this video did bring my comfort level to were I feel I can do it myself.
awesome video, very well done and informative. I'll still find a shop to rebuild mine... but atleast now I know more than I did on how it all works
one of the better gear set vids on youtube.
For a person that didnt know what backlash was to know exactly what it is now video was excellent ...and well explained ...🍺🍺
i heat the bearings 200 degrees in the oven, that little expansion doesn't hurt the bearing makes it easier to put on
How come you didn't use the microwave? ---Just kidding.
@@frankpaya690 , makes for a great fireworks display when you do!! 😂
o crap ive been watching videos on YT for hrs and i got to say you used the less professional tools and you are the one that got the closes to getting the right pattern nice game me inspiration to do mine on my own
I would think, a contact pattern, would tell you more about whether you have your ring and pinion aligned correctly, even than checking backlash with a gauge.
I love the reloading items in the background !
good video where are your spider gears? and what about the lube? i just took one apart and the bearings had failed, no shims just 2 thick spacers. there was evidence the lube had broken down, all the surfaces were coated with black sludge and the lube was quite thin. should i doubt synthetic ? 140w
Preload on the pinion is 18-22 inch/lbs I believe. Also the main caps are between 97-102 ft/lbs.
Life saver award goes to.... 👏
Summit racing sales a crush washer that easily crushes.
I personally used it twice with no issues.
Used my impact while holding the socket and bumped it a little at a time until it was perfect.
Otherwise you need two people to do the job.
I didn't know you could do set up, with no crush sleeve at all . I don't think I would bother with the dial indicator, if I had to hold it by hand, I'd have to make sure I hadn't had any coffee, before trying that. I found the same thing you did, about checking the backlash, without having the carrier torqued down, and it makes sense, because when torqued, it's going to force the ring gear further into the pinon.
super nice work
Extremely helpful!
Glad it was helpful!
Learnt Lots thank you very much ! Skål 🍺🍺🍺
i had my 1996 grand marquis gs for 10 years now i got it back in 2011 and i never changed the gear oil but i have the gear oil but now i have play in my differential cause when i put it in reverse it makes a clunking sound and when i put it in drive it makes another noise but other than that it rides fine my differential isn't making any noise but i want that clunking sound to stop every time i put it in gear so i want to know what i have to do to fix that problem i don't want to buy another rear end
put the carrier in the freezer for a few hours and the bearing in a 200deg oven and it will slide right on without a press or beating on it
No need put pinion in freezer. Just heat the bearing will do. I used an old milk can an put the bearing on top while heating with my torch. I used my left hand to slowly turn the bearing so the heat is applied all around the inner bearing center.
@@alcyon2sp freezing the pinon wont hurt the heat treatment of the metal, Over heating the bearing will. So freezing the pinion just gives you the ability to do the same thing at a lower temp vs just heating the bearing, just a safer way to do it.
@@DBLDREW i used a laser thermometer to check the temp.
@@alcyon2sp not saying it cant work your way, just saying its a smaller window for error because you need to go to a higher temp to get the expansion.
Beautiful demo and professional work. I have a 9" I am swapping the full spool out for a Yukon Trac-Lok differential. Would Yukons torque specs for the ring gear be different then Ford's 97 ft pound torque specs? I have the spanner adjuster and not the shims. Question? How did you set the carrier bearing preload? Thanks for sharing, appreciate your dedication to excellence. Cheers from Motown!
Whats that gear on top of the ring gear, mine fell off and was wobbling around but I can’t find that replacement gesr
It’s called the ABS tone ring. It is used to detect rear lockup.
Hello +neutered10mm, what is the pinion pre-load without the crush sleeve in order to test for backlash & tooth pattern before final re assemble?
Should be aware that, carrier/centre bearing preload is also adjusted with the adjusting nuts.
if you put the new bearing in the oven for a bit it will drop right on there
Is this a Torsen style diff?
thanks for the upload. ive removed my pinion seal and have a slight side to side movement of the pinion itself. if i replace the crush sleave do i have to reset the backlash or just the pinion preload? thanks
Sounds like you needed to replace the bearings.
I'm an idiot. While disassembling the differential the oil was sludge which distracted me from marking the left and right side bearing cap. Is there a way to determine which cap goes on the left and which goes on the left?
As long as they are still in the groups they started in and weren't combined / mixed together, it should be obvious if you switch sides. Way too loose, or way too tight.
I have a checklist set up to measure and write down each pack-up of shims as I remove them. Hope this helped.
Hey +neutered10mm mechanic changed the pinion seal on my 8.8 by removing the pinion nut without counting threats or caring about the preload, then he putted it back on with a impact wrench making it so tight that the wheels wouldn't even spin, then he loose the nut up and torque it back in, now the gears whine in between 30 to 40 mph, what should I do at this point? re-install the pinion with a new installation kit (washe, crush-sleeve and barings) ?
I'd remove the nut, crush washer and seal and then replace them ... you might be able to get by without redoing the seal though ... check for leaks first. Replace the crush washer and nut and torque to spec and you should be good to go. The whine is most likely from the pinion depth going to shit once he over torqued the nut and over crushed the washer. It's possible to do that in-vehichle without dropping anything, but it's a total PITA and I'd highly recommend a lift as getting enough torque to crush that washing under the vehicle on your back will be next to impossible.
Hey thanks for the quick replay +neutered10mm we will try that. Mind me asking again, what would be the torque spec? I have a 07 mustang stock.
Why are you checking backlash without torquing the caps?
Exactly
Tell me what would happen if you leave it a little loose. And installed it in the car? Please let me know.
Narciso Veloz you are going thane a lot of noise. You will hear a constant humming sound when driving and the faster you go it will humm louder. Also you will hear a clunking sound when starting and stopping. Not good. This is a precision piece of equipment and I would suggest that someone who specializes in diffe do the work. It's not something you want to be throwing together. You shouldn't do what this guy did either. You need to press the bearings on properly and not hammer it period. His paint pattern is not the best. It will wear faster.
Correct, but keep in mind that not everyone has a press or the means to pay someone to do the job. It's possible to do this in your driveway if need be, but you must get the pattern good before proceeding. 2 years on now and not an issue with my locker, which works wonders in soft sand and snow. I'll more than likely be replacing it with a Torsen LSD next year as the lunchbox locker it a bit noisy in parking lots and doesn't like to release traction and chirps the tires around slow corners on dry pavement ... again, mostly in parking lots and shopping centers.
@@robpeters5204 I have had numerous Ford F150s over the years. Two things are a constant: 1. After lifts and tires, I always get 8-10 MPG, and 2. Every one of them - including the 2010 I have now have so much slop in the drivetrain that it sounds like a bowling ball rolling loose in the bed. The next Diff rebuild / re-gear I do will hopefully improve both of those problems. Thanks for the great video series.
You just had to use the 2x4 dude
Why didn't you use the original shim
How did you find the pinion depth that’s the most confusing part for me
El_De_La_Lobo check out the previous vlog prior to this one: ua-cam.com/video/FdsvQ2iVXzE/v-deo.html
What about the spider gears
I was replacing them with a lunchbox locker, but having them in for this setup isn't required. They add no resistance to affect the setting without the axles in.
Well I set my pinion preload at 20 foot pounds and when I set everything back in there just to check the ring gear won't move it's really hard is that suppose to happen or am I setting it too tight..
All new bearings also
sounds like it
Please tell me that 20 FOOT Pounds was a typo ... it's supposed to be around 20 INCH pounds and would definitely explain your issues if that wasn't a typo.
BTW, if this isn't a typo, you have over-crushed the crush washer and have to redo this step replacing the washer with a new one.
Well you got that down
+John Solar 283 ™ Factory manual and a class or two about 20 years ago ... haven't touched a ring & pinion since, but once I started reading the shop manuals it all came back to me.
don't ya wish it only took 11:37 to do that lol
+heavylead1961 LOL, no kidding! The most time consuming is the shim shuffle if you don't nail it out of the gate. I'm just glad that my pinion shim was spot on right off though as getting to replace it and then redoing the preload is also time consuming.
neutered10mm 4 things i won't do...welding, gas lines in the house, cement, and rear ends!!! and the reason i won't do them is i have to take them to someone that knows what they are doing, because they charge me double for fixing my f- ups LOL
Where can I found specs for the backlash
There are a lot of resources for this, but it should be included in the ring/pinion sheet when you get them new. Here is a good starting point (for this particular ring/pinion maker) www.differentials.com/technical-help-2/set-up-specs/ (0.011" - 0.016") but keep in mind that differs from the Ford Racing spec in their race ring install guide here performanceparts.ford.com/download/instructionsheets/FordInstShtM-4209-8.pdf (0.008" - 0.012") ... so it's really dependent on the manufacturer of the diff components. IIRC, I used a Yukon Gear setup and their specs are here www.yukongear.com/downloads/manuals/yukon_general_installation_instructions.pdf
Thank you for you respond and the web info I have the information that I need .... I’m doing by my self the ring & and pinion actually I’m upgrading my diff gears on a Hummer H2 you video and others are really helping me a lot thank you again I’m doing a front locker too .! Keep the posting
what app did you use?
Which vehicle was this differential from?
2002 Mercury Mountaineer. Sorry for the super late reply but figured it would help others.
Why did you use the wood? I have done hundreds of bearings never did that ever.
Won't warp, bend or mar the bearing, though there is a risk of bits of wood getting in the bearing.
@@Georgehanes-GJH105775 I have used wood before a time or two, but I was wondering why you wouldn't use a shorter piece of wood that would offer the cushion but with more control of the piece than that long 2x4. Just an observation.
@@rickdebacker100 I agree with you on that. Laying a shorter piece sideways lets you tilt the longer ends a little better, and absorbs some, but less of the impact.
Personally I prefer the edge grain to be in contact over end grain due to less sawdust, but instead usually just use a bearing press with a brass plate/aluminium pipe as a little cusion. If a bearing press isn't an option the first is a happy compromise, add that 12$ aluminium pipe so you don't risk bending the bearing cage if the wood deforms too much and you aren't using an old bearing in between.
I have '2" OD x 1/8" Wall 6061 T6 ALUMINUM Round Tube 24" long Seamless 1.75 ID' in my ebay purchase history that I think I've with my bearing press to do the carrier bearings and/or the pinion bearings of a few of these 8.8s, if you have access to a bearing press this will make it easy.
As a guy who builds differentials for semi trucks for a living I am almost sick watching this video. Your pattern is way to far on the outside for one. You have way too much backlash. Never ever grind the inside of your bearings and don't use a piece of wood to seat your bearings! Do not put your pattern paint on until your backlash is within spec. It is always best to use more oil than not enough. Whether a gear seat is new or used you must check for burs. Use a deadblow not a regular hammer. And actually put the micrometer on the tooth! With a stand so it won't be moving.
Good effort, bad planing
It calls for 8-16 backlash!
Stick to Semi trucks. As the Ford Factory knows how they want it done. Not to mention this will wear in out towards the heel!
cjay mac i can not find your bad ass ford 8.8 diff rebuild video, it looks like your channel is blank because you spend your time just talking shit about other peoples helpful videos...
i do agree he needs to use a micrometer stand, but
0.010 backlash is spot on. not all diffs have the same backlash the semi trucks you work on.
the gears were probably (hopefully) ground down just setup bearings, he did say at the end to press on the bearings
As someone who runs a rebuilding facility and 22+ years building both light duty and semi differentials that pinion could have definitely been a little deeper (and a little lower on the drive side). Patterns should be checked with resistance, always. As far as grinding the ID of bearings, I have a huge drawer dedicated to them (for setup purposes only) that I use without a crush sleeve until depth is set and I'm ready for final assembly. The bearing cones (with the cages and bearings removed) all have a cut in them to use as bearing pressing tools for both pinion and carrier bearings that I use to press on the new bearing cones on without causing any stress to the new bearings. I would never use wood to drive them on, I use press plates with a press or hammer after a minute on a bearing heater. Some light duty rears are shimmed underneath the bearings so we have to keep test bearings for that purpose.
it shouldnt be clicking like that should it? I would buy a new axle and not mess with factory settings thanks...
@@nicholasd4838 man I loved the bearing heater at my last job. Made things so much easier. I'm not trying to bash anyone but I've used hot oil bath in a pinch...would be better than bfh and wood.
Right off.. that's wrong
No body explains the shim correctly
Too much backlash and drive side pattern is riding too high needs to be deeper.
I was thinking the same about the depth of the pattern. Exactly what change (direction) in shims will increase the depth without sacrificing the other factors? Thank you in advance.
where did you get the torque wrench beam and which one I need to get inch pounds 0-70? and I have the magnetic dial indicator
Autozone ... I think it was around $20-$25.
you need some brake grease for it for max coverage of the specks.
@@nicparker3809 You mean for checking the pattern on the Ring gear? Thanks