TFS: How to Narrow a Ford 8.8 Part 1 - Strip Down
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- Опубліковано 25 бер 2018
- The Ford 8.8 is quite possibly the most DIY friendly rear axles out there. You can find them everywhere in dozens of options and forms, and thy are cheap to mod and replace parts on. In this episode, Justin is narrowing one.
Part 1 is all about the strip down and measurements.
Part 2 is here:
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Step by step guide to strip down and measure
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Followed your instructions and tips. Narrowed my 8.8 and now it's part of a tri-angulated 4 link in my 55 Nomad. Thanks man...
Just a tip for welding cast iron, or any weldable cast metal for that matter. Pre heat the piece with a torch. Get er good n hot. It will help the weld cool slower which reduces the chance of cracks
That was exactly my thoughts when I saw him welding the tubes to the pumpkin. It's actually cast steel but the composition off the metal is unknown. some people heat the pumpkin up with a torpedo type heater and let it gradually cool moving the heater farther away from the pumpkin in 15 minute intervals at a time.... 😎
Seen 100s of the 8.8s welded with every type of welder and NO CRACKS>.. so the steel STEEL its made up of is very good.. So dont worry about heating it up.. It will be fine.
Black Box if it’s thicker then your thumb atleast take the chill off.
correct sir
I always lay a basic beed, let it crack then go over it again HOT. Welded every type of cast steel imaginable with that method and it works like a charm. the sides of your weld never crack its always right down the center and if it doesnt crack weld it again anyways.
Just my hillbilly 2 cents.
I used two hose clamps instead of the tape because it gives a better edge to cut to. It works very well.
the old ford van 9 inch was a beauty as well. It was sooo offset that you could easily shorten it and use it in a pinto or vega. A perfect fit. We were doing this when i was 15 years old
This dude ROCKS! Knows his stuff, very articulate, and fun to watch! Not to mention those rows of dimes he's laying with the welding tips! Nice work Justin!! Happy New Year 2019 :)
Great video Justin, exactly what I've been looking for too!
You do an excellent job of explaining and teaching, Thank You!
For marking a cut line I like to use my big tube cutter and just run it around the axle a few times. It puts a perfect score line every time and it will always be square. We all have our own little tricks and that's just one of mine.
Ridgid # 423 is perfect.
There you go!
I destroyed a wheel of my Dear Daddy's once.Cutting bent fork tubes into.Didnt like that hardened CHROME! It cut both/but ,ruined that cutter.wheel
309 filler rod works absolutely great for just about anything disimalar especially structural. Aluminum bronze works great when not. What a great video thanks Justin ...
Jason
It's definitely a go-to filer for me. Thanks for watching!
Except that aluminum-bronze is now classed as brazing and not welding. 309/309L were specifically designed for dissimilar metal welding.
Mike Ford correct! You get a gold star.. but who said welding or brazing? Just said it’s great for dissimilar. You aren’t wrong that it’s for brazing though. Brazing is great with Alu bronze for anything non structural as stated. We said the same thing
Filler 309 contains nickle which is ductile and thus prevents cracking. You can use even higher content and nickle base fillers when welding cast iron. If you're going to weld something like a bracket to a cast housing you can prep the surface with a layer of nickle base filler and then weld the bracket onto that.
"nickel", not "nickle", knucklehead.
Knuckelhead*
nickelhead !!!
whats with the fancy words anyway?.... ductile?.. seriously nucklebuck....
Yup...an old timer trick i learned was that if your unsure of the metal type use 309 rod...ive welded stainless to galvanized with 309 flawlessly!!!
A wrap-a-round will make your life a lot easier when cutting pipe.
Thank you, great video. One small suggestion I learned in my hobby shop, please do not take my suggestion as any hit on your talent, this video taught me plenty! So here it is, you like me have a nice collection of welders behind you likely $1000s worth... My point is for time management in my shop I now sport 3 angle grinders. $50 each, one for cut off wheel, one for grinding, one for a wire wheel. Have all three saves me time, which in-turn money. Just a thought. YOU have made skill MAN. thank you again.
Totally agree on grinders. Even for home use, I've got half a dozen HF $10 angle grinders with assorted wheels and brushes. Yeah, they're not as long lasting as name brands, but they don't have to be when you only use each one 1/6 of the time. Also found it handy to cut short the cords and put plugs on, they all live together in their own toolbox without tangling. I just use one retractable cord for them all.
fun fact. the 8.8 has different length axle tubes because ford actually made an 8.8 the same width as what you cut. thy put it in rangers and explorers. they just put two of the shorter tubes in for the skinny version. if anyones looking for them any explorer will have them or any ranger with a 4.0
Also look for a Ranger with a torsion bar front suspension. It has the 8.8.
I used to do a lot of 9 inch Ford rears , both to narrow and to install Grand National spindles when a full - floating rear was needed. I have the luxury of owning a full machine shop ( including a lathe big enough to handle a full sized rear and tubes ) but most of the time I found it faster and easier to just cut the tubes with a pipe cutter. With a good pipe cutter you get square cuts and a bevel. Because I was doing this kind of work for some of the local racers as well as myself I built an alignment / welding fixture that was a real time saver. It was made from cold rolled round stock , the first part was clamped in the carrier saddles and was a reducer for a round bar just slightly smaller than the id of the tubes. The ends of the shaft were bored and tapped for different ends for however the tubes were to be finished. This setup even was center drilled so the whole thing could be put in the lathe and checked with a dial indicator.
To clean the tube, axle housings, I took a few washers, a 5/8ths wooden dowell rod, and a screw, screwed the washers to the end of the rod and wrapped a few paper towels around it. Then, utilizing the square edge of the washer, raked the inside of the tube. Got it pretty clean. Sure beat trying to stick an arm down in there.
Walker Ashcraft I usually just wipe it out after cutting it. Whatever gets the job done best for the person doing the job is the right way 👍
I have done a few rear diff mods. I like to drill the welds remove the tube from housing shorten then press in realine tube and rewelded back up.
8.8
Sloppy Mechanics I'm surpised you didn't tell him to just cut off the leaf spring mount
The denmah has spoken
BETTER A 9 INCHS......NO DAMN C CLIPS........
The truck/SUV 8.8's are offset diff. The Mustang ones are centered and shorter but only have 28 spline vs the Truck 31.
I put one of these 8.8 under my jeep trussed with the Artec kit and 4.88 gears. Huge improvement over the stock Dana 35 and an upgrade over a Dana 44
Great video.
Make great videos about TIG welding!
Have smiled where you have marked the dimensions. It's true that you can do it with a ruler.
On our work we make it easier, we have a plastic strip (long: 100 cm, wide: 3-5cm, thick: 1-1.5mm). As you take the measure and marks the spot, then the plastic strip is wrapped around it and if the stripes are exactly on top of each other. you can draw with a pen along the edge.
Then the other measure is drawn and that's the same way. so you have the quick measure to raustrennen what you need.
Greetings from Germany
Awesome! Just found your page and it’s going to help me so much. Good quality work. Keep it up
Great directions. Great video. You have a good way with words, too.
pipe cutter works great and the cut is perfectly straight. Do that for my driveshafts too
I was gonna say this. I use the cutter to put a groove and then I sink the bandsaw in it. It tends to follow the groove.
I was sceptical til he pulled out the 309's. It's a happy medium between the two parent metals carbon content, roughly that is.
Hey, Thanks for this video, I might just be doing the same thing for an 8.8 for a 57 chevy pickup in the future (depending on if I decide to get an independant rear end or not. Hey, what I wanted to ask is, Where do you buy / how do you make your assembly table you have there in the foreground? Thanks awesome work dude
I've never owned a Ford 8.8 or intend to or intend to cut the tubes, but this was cool/informative to watch.
Excellent choise of the 309 filler! I can't TIG weld but I know this stuff very well from MIG welding. Ofcourse it's originally intended to weld steel to stainless steel but it has many more uses. The shop were I used to work used a lot of 309 Mig welding to create a hardened surface area when we ran out of the special electrodes.. Bit of a backyard solution but it did the trick. This was mostly done for a lot of wear plates where abrasive stuff went through pipes 24-7.
Nice!!
Just changed my alarm from 4am to 4.25am so I could watch an old Fabricator video.
No matter what I do this magical man has it all laid out
Everlast sell sweet TIG/Plasma for a very reasonable price.
Also, pre-heating cast helps to mitigate weld cracking. In some circumstances, its absolutely necessary.
Same thing for chopping out 3", if you want a wider axle cut and put in 3" on the other side to match the length and use 2 left side axles. But what tube thickness and diameter for that section. Jeeps often do an 8.8 swap but they are a bit narrow.
Easy trick to taking off the spring pads that is much easier than what you did. Cut them right down the middle fore to aft, then take a pry par and pry one side up from the cut you just made. Then take the biggest adjustable wrench you have, and use that the work the piece back and forth until it breaks off. Do the same for the other side. You will be left with just the weld to grind down.
Works on everything but GM multileaf spring seats. They have a spot weld in the center you have to grind off before you can work the seat until it breaks off.
Great idea to use the other axele It makes the centre in the centre now it might launch straight down the strip with even axles if you only need few more inches if not just need to get axles made up to fit great job I have a spare one at home with a lsd centre I could use the late model wheels if I did it to my car no spacers just put the late model plate to mount the rear brakes and deeep dish wheels will fit nicely thanks mate 👍
Good details. It's a big amount of work for a small job!
Maybe a bit unnecessary but I have the axles shot blasted clean before cutting and welding but oh so much nicer to work on super clean and rust free axles. It takes about an hour and a few bucks worth of media but makes everything that much easier to do. The secret to good welds is the prep. Welding needs spotless clean joints. Blasting gets muck out of the metal pores and gaps.
Andrew Wilson
Agreed. The first thing I do on any project is make sure it’s clean. I realize it’s not possible or practical in some situations but working on clean parts is so nice.
Why not use the 3 inch 3150 bearing out of the 9inch 31 spline and eliminate the clip eliminate, now you have 9 inch ford caliper capacity and the correct bearing, just a thought.
Hi, great video, one question, doesn't that change the side angle of the drive shaft? Will it be too much of a change for a drag racing application? In other words the drive shaft is no longer in the center of the chassis but to one side? Thanks.
I've used a tubing cutter to make a witness line when I need to cut tubing square. Just a few twists makes a great line!
I rebuilt a many of these. I worked at the city garage in Mobile AL. We worked on all of the city's cop cars.
Freakin love the videos. I just applied for my first LLC. The info you provide has been priceless. Thank you sir
I think I would have used a horizontal band saw to cut the axle tube. It would have saved marking all around the tube. I can cut square or rectangle tube with an angle grinder (had to cut 42 pieces of 2"x3" 11 ga tube for the CNC plasma table before we got a decent horizontal band saw) but round stock sucks for marking and cutting. We had to cut some 6" sch 40 pipe a while back. We had some scrap left over and , just screwing around, we rotated a cutt 180 degrees and cut a thin slice off. The thin part was .015" and the thick part was .031". About 0.001" per 1 inch is closer than you can cut with a angle grinder on round stock.
would it be beneficial to preheat the assembly before welding?
once again, you are a brilliant man.
Donnie
Your calm tone is awesome.. “ you line needs to be exactly the same.. “ no shit” and yes you do neeeeed to mention that.. lol excellent work** you da man!!!
Hey man, great video. What amps do you run this at? And what size tungsten /309 filler? 3/32?
Strike a line down the tube with a piece of angle iron so that the clock of the tube does not change.
Maybe this will be in part two.
Try big hose clamps instead of tape. You can get them right on the mark it's much faster and they won't melt when you make the cut
i welded my tubes to my housing with ni-55 stick rod with the flux knocked off, worked a treat and wetted into the housing/tube like butter, excellent stuff to work with.
Why did you knock the flux off?
@@phlodel i knocked the flux off because i was tig welding the tubes together and didnt want the flux to contaminate my weld, had i been stick welding i would have just used the rods as normal.
@@Cervan Sorry. I didn't catch the TIG part. Why don't you just get nickle TIG wire?
It would be good if you could cover the fabrication of the 4 link and maybe a video on squaring the axle to the chassis 👍
Underrated bro your work here is very awesome
Thanks for this series, I did it and it’s not that bad
could you do the same process to widen a shortened rear end as an example? widen it by 2-3" for each side?
The best way to determine how much the axle tube needs shortening is to measure the difference between the long drive shaft and the short drive shaft, this difference is how much the axle tube needs shortening. The best way to mark two parallel lines around the axle tube is to cut a strip of thin sheet metal to the exact width needed wrap it tight around the axle hold in place with a jubilee clip then scribe a line around both sides. Then cut the tube off against the inside edge of both scribe lines, the axle will now be cut square and at the correct length needed.
Great video, super informative. Your the This Old House informative interesting version of what the car market needs. Small tip for anyone who can’t tape straight for shit like myself, buy a pipe wrap and draw a continuous line around the wrap where you’ll be cutting.
U need a wrap around. Also would love to see what the dial says.
I would imagine placing the weld outside the suspension mounting point would be best. That way you eliminate twisting loads on the weld under accel
🤔 One less force to contend with.👍
Get a jig, the aluminum bushings, ground an polished shaft and new housing ends then narrow it where u want it. That's what I did. I put 9 inch housing ends on mime that way no more c clips.
I like to use some steel angle scribe an index line along the tube before i cut, makes it real easy to line up the tube when its time to weld it up
I narrowed an 8.8 differential for my ‘66 Mustang. Bought custom axles from Moser. I took out 2 1/8” per side. Tip: Rent a pipe cutter. It’s fast and accurate. BTW, I used INNER pipes to align it. Pictures upon request.
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Would like to see this, have a Volvo Amazon I'd like to put an 8.8 on since the bolt pattern is 4.5
You are a Master of measuring man
Just a couple suggestions from one welder fabricator to another, cutting the brackets off the tubes, Its much easier to use an actual grinding wheel, probably a 4inch in your case to gouge most of the weld out. The ginding wheel is obviously much stronger and you can make a few light passes over it following the high side of the weld then as it gets deeper you can buzz the top lip off to either use the cutting wheel to finish, or sometimes your lucky enough to just wack it off with min effort. Also, welding any cast iron its best to heat it with a torch first, even out past the main area but concentrated mostly on the welding area. If its somthing thats going to be structual and really need to be rugged, after your finished welding depending on what it is, give it a min to cool so it isnt red anymore and pack as much sand on it and around the area as possible. It'll make it cool slower and less prone to cracking.
When marking where to cut, mark one side and then cut a piece of posterboard or heavy paper, in your case, 2 7/8" wide x 8-10 inches long and wrap it around the axle. Align the ends and mark along sides of paper.
Hi from New Zealand,
Another tip when using grinders uses ear protection and respiration protection. I'm a nurse have cared for truck and trailer loads of mechanics, engineers, carpenters, and builders. One thing they all have in common they are deaf and have chronic respiration problems.
For the axle tube to center casting has anyone used bronze, seems to me it would fill the bill nicely.
I’m just starting to look at axle narrowing. What about using a piece of heavy paper that’s exactly the cut amount , wrap it around and then spray paint over it. Should leave a perfect tube behind?
At 14:12 did anyone else have flashbacks of Grasshopper branding himself to become Caine?
I could almost hear the skin sizzling - lol.
You got me.
Is that diff supposed to be bone dry? 1:20
amazing, work, buddy
Great video. Just curious, why not preheat the cast unit?
I'm cutting a 7.5 down on both sides to where the tubes are only 9" long any advice before I do it
So lets say I want to widen it. Could I just take the short side put some tube in, weld it, and use 2 long side axles?
308 Stainless? Wow, I was not expecting that... Ford used quite an interesting alloy with that rear end. I will say TIG welding on stainless is a blast! I was just a beginner at it and I was laying down pretty welds. Not sure about corrosion resistance though. But hey, stainless is tougher than mild at least.
Awesome video
Subscribed💪🏻
Im really hell-bent on removing the plugs and pressing out the axle tube. I really just want to try it on a scrap axle. What did you use to get the plugs out? Also, you mention 3 triangulated plugs, What about the 4th large plug on the side of the cover. Does that need to come out too? Thanks
If the axle housing was originally built with the pinion off center, the way you just modified it, it is not on center any more. (That is why one axle was longer in the first place.)
If your new axle goes into a truck, you are golden, but if it is going into a car, the driveshaft will hit the side of the tunnel.....especially with 2 or more in the car.
The pinion is not centered on for 8.8 rear ends, that is why one axle is longer than the other
@@Redtooth75 I covered that: I switched a word by mistake. Thanks
Could you weld the tubes to the housing with SilBro?
I use a Ridged Pipe cutter that gets the cut square and perfect easy peazy!
You have at least 10 welders\ plasma cutters behind you. wow. Do you use them all??
Tim Z Sure do. I switch up regularly and they all get used in our TIG Classes here at the shop.
you haven't considered preheating the cast to 600 to 800 degree's (using a temperature pen to determine the heat) prior to the weld? as far as i know that's a routine practice when welding cast. I agree using stainless rod does help prevent cracking too.
Considered, noted, calculated, never done. Theres a ton of factors and it has been determined that it is not necessary on this diff.
What was that rear axle going into and what was the flange to flange measurement when you done
I have an old lincoln G8000 that I have a miller suitcase wirefeeder hooked to, and an antique profax spoolgun for aluminum both of those feeders can push a clean bead with SS wire, 4043 or 5356 alum., with either CC or CV, and I can tig just the same using the CC as well as scratch start my plasma torch....all you need is AMPerage to melt metal and it ultimately doesn't matter to the metal which type of current you use whether AC or DC the metal isnt that picky it will melt practically the same with either it rarely puts up much resistance once you created a contact...
Best DIY axle out there. Cheap too.
Hi justin, i need a suggestion or helpful tip. Im narrowing the same rear axle and i forgot one of the most important steps, the "clocking reference mark". What can i do to get it clocked correctly again?
just have a quick question for you I'm working on an Explorer in 02 with an 8.8 737 rear end I need to know if all the axle shafts are the same length and all of the 8.8 and also in diameter just having a hard time finding one but there's quite a few at the Wreckers I'm just having a hard time finding the right one if any help would be appreciated the one I have is bent
The pinion is still in the middle between the flanges when this is done?
Im sure you have your prefered ways but I would rather than using tape to lay out the cut lines, use a good pipe cutter. It will give you a perfectly aligned score all the way around. Great video and explanations!
What type filler rod did you use to tig the tubes back together? Great job
ER70S-2
Are both the calipers on the back of the axle? If so what did it come out of?
Just curious, why wouldn't you remove axel tube from center section then cut and reinstall? No weak spots, no seams to dodge.
Howard Hudson Its an interference fit which requires a very large press or specialty tools. It's not something mkpst people can do in their garage or small shop.
Could the tubes be welded with a stick welder and be ok
@2:14 - Yup, easy as pie you say - on the bench. I had to do mine in the dark, on my back, in the snow, in negative 23 degrees, lol. Damn thing shit a bearing seal. :)
Cool video in the 1970s my Dad had a 1967 Mustang Fastback 289 he was always going to junkyards to buy Ford rearends to swap in and out of that Mustang eventually he got the correct gearing he wanted which I believe came out of a LTD my Dad wasn’t a professional trained drag racer but he did time his speeds and times getting onto the same highway on ramps which he timed to get a better speed at keep in mind the Mustang was our family car and as a young boy I thought it was cool to feel him “punch” the accelerator he had also grown up in a very rural area of Upstate New York so when we went to visit my Grandparents the old Man love racing on the rural roads he grew up driving on and knew pretty well he loved that Mustang for those rides and often borrowed a Chevy 2 with a SBC in it my Grandfather used as his daily driver that one had a 3 on the Floor and could leave rubber in all 3 gears my Dad would say put on your seat belt and we go out and haul ass for a while the coolest Ford rear modification I know of was a guy I know took one and put it into a old Ferrari he bought with a blown engine and installed all Ford running gear he wanted to keep the Ferrari rims on the car so he machined the two axles to fit into the Ford rear ironically over 35 years later the car was trying to be put back to factory specs under its newest ownership and that guy was tracked down for any input on original parts many of which he did know of the whereabouts or who he sold them to apparently that specific car had some historical significance to Ferrari collectors and he was dibbed the guy that tried to ruin the car his take was completely different as he bought a non running car , made it run ,and drove it for years without the high maintenance costs associated with the brand BTW the guy is my Uncle and he is a West Point graduate and retired Aerospace Engineer u,u.S. retired AirForce and Commercial Pilot he did the machining himself on his Lathe in his home
That's awesome
Forgive my ignorance, cutting down 1 side only, does this mean that at factory width the prop shaft was on an angle from the gearbox centreline to the diff centre
this is all great. But where the hell do you get the shorter axle rods from?
How many Amps did you have the TIG machine set to? Size of 309? Would it be helpful to pulse tig to lessen the heat effect? Thanks.
Great tutorial, thankyou, Cheers :-)
How about a pipe cutter there ones big enough and you can check your mesurement after one reverlution
dude has a wall of welders behind him, one them has to be a plazma cutter also?
You need to get a wrap around from the gangebox .com to make your marks on the tube
Please don`t get any pipeliners involved in the comments. They are a bunch of cocky know-it-alls who run their their mouths because they think running 6010 downhill is the pinnacle of welding.
I have a question, I’m currently shopping around for a IRS diff, the Ford Explorer and expedition have them , but I’m wondering if simply narrowing a solid rear axle would be more solid than the aluminum IRS diff case ? Or that just to much work for nothing ?
Ive done a BUNCH of 8.8 axle swaps, gear swaps, bearing swaps. And definitively the best tool for removing AND installing the C-clip/axle retainer is a small magnet. I have a el cheap-O little inspection mirror with a magnet at the end of the telescoping handle that has seen more rears than ..... well you get it. lmRo! Get er Done! Oh $hit! Also, what brand of paint pen do you use?????
I narrowed an 8.8 Ford. Special ordered new axles from Moser. Came out great.
@Mark Bartmanski, I installed it in my ‘66 Mustang fastback that I am retromodding.
@Mark Bartmanski, sure. I rented a big pipe cutter and cut out 2 1/8” off the middle of each side, narrowing it to OEM width. I ordered Moser axles. The rear end came out of an ‘86 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe. 3.55 gears and disc brakes. I cut away all of the unused suspension stuff and welded on leaf spring perches. I precisely unturned the pinion nut, counting the turns. Remove the carrier and replaced the bearings, putting the shims back exactly as they came off. Put in new pinion bearing, seal and crush washer, and installed the pinion nut the exact same 13 1/4 turns. Took several pictures.