In defense of cheap guitars I just returned a $1100.00 PRS SE Pauls guitar that had a ground issue, a nasty overlooked and cleared over finish issue which is a bad start. The most unbelievable problem was 12 out of 24 frets were high when checked with a Fret rocker. That is close to unbelievable! They set it up high it seems hoping to hide that..
Looking forward to your next video! To fix the bridge, couldn't you just recess the footprint a bit? Maybe even put a slight slope on it, away from the headstock. As for the headstock, I would just recess the footprint for the clamp. And potentially drill a hole through it towards the north and put a screw in. Or have some type of retention to pull the nose of it down.
Yes. In fact, I had to do that on the Eart GW2-pro guitar that had this same exact hardware. You end up having gaps under the neck and the bridge, which reduces the stability and the sustain of the instrument. The replacement bridge fixes the issue completely. Video soon. :)
I had a hunch everything you are saying would be the case! I just returned the 2nd Latitude Cardinal I bought off Amazon. They have their own serious issues. Necks are pretty good but that is it. The body cavity was cut wrong and the cable connector will not tighten in place. A very obvious mistake and both had that issue. The bridge is installed to high and there is no height adjustment. The body needs to be milled lower to get the bridge to where the height adjuster will do anything. As you said there were built by people that know very little about how a guitar works. Both the ones I tried were the back ones. Perhaps they know that are the problem ones and cut the price for that reason. I have no way of knowing. Two showing the same problems was enough for me.
Hey Chris, im curious, with all the nice guitars you have, what is it that you see in these cheap (and often terrible) guitars that compells you to buy them? Project aspect?
I am always curious and hopeful that someone will make an affordable guitar that is worth having. I also like to help people make informed decisions when purchasing a guitar. And, I do love a challenge of making a cheap guitar play better with mods, as a hobby.
I have mine sorted out more or less. The input jack had to go! POP POP! One pickup was off to one side and I had to remount it. But I mi\ust say its better than the Latitude Caedinal that sells for way more.
Any updates on this Leo Jaymz? I'm jonesing for a Strandberg but can't / won't afford one for a while. This Leo Jaymz has the design elements of the Strandberg, along with the five-way blade switch capability. It's got everything I want except for the multi-scale thing. It seems like a guitar with which I can dip my toes in the headless water. I'm just kind of waiting on how your upgrades went.
I scrapped this project... Just not a good enough quality to bother spending the amount of time, effort and money on... The frets were wonky, the neck was unstable, etc... I'd recommend you try to find a used Eart headless, if you want a decent quality inexpensive 1st headless.
I also bought one of these, but with a flame maple top. Absolute firewood. Design is great, but the execution is worse than bottom shelf. Here are some of the issues: zero fret was making contact with some strings and not others. With that fixed, upper frets still won't intonate because they are spaced incorrectly. Pickups were too high, so they fretted out past the 19th fret. When I tried to lower them, the neck pickup screw came through the back of the body. When I tried to remove the pickup screws, they broke off in the body. The bridge was wayyy too far forward, when I moved it back, it exposed a huge crack in the top veneer under the bridge. Frets were nowhere near level, so I fixed that. After 90+ hours of work, the guitar feels pretty good in the hands but sounds like a piece of trash.
I’ve been through 6 of these so far and they all have been messed up. The first two were the brown ash body version which is beautifully done but the bridge was mounted too far towards the neck and they could not have proper intonation set. I next switched to the purple/blue model you have in your video and the paint jobs were completely different. One was a beautiful transition color and the other was almost black. Both of these had their pickup routes too far towards the low E side of the guitar and the strings didn’t line up with the pole pieces (which I can see in your model also). Then I switched to the green burst model and neither of them matched colors and they both had their bridges mounted too far towards the high E side of the guitar which put the high E string very close to the edge of the fretboard. I communicated the issues with Leo Jaymz and they said they knew they had production problems and told me to go buy a guitar from someone else.
I got 3 of them they were all the same, i got a birl one first when they were $189. they had a bunch of colors then i got 2 of the brown and red ash ones and they have the same issues. They think the nut is where the strings should lay but with a zero fret the strings need to lay over it or the intonation will be all out of whack. I prefer a zero fret the sustain is better then with the nut. But the nut prevents string roll if bending close to the zero fret these are issues the steinberger has.
I almost bought one. Every day I checked for new reviews to see if it was worth it. In the end I just bought another NK. If they end up fixing the issues in a revised model I may scoop one up
Stunning look BUT why a fat fender square neck joint on a moderne headless guitar ? And why the jack socket is on the side for thigh sitting ? That stupid.
Pause at 0:36 .....I noticed that the string spacing (when viewed over the entire fretboard at the 24th fret) looked like the high E might tend to fall off the fretboard during bends. Also, now look at the low E string (at the 24th) This looks like it has way too much playing space on the fretboard. Now look at the bridge pickup. All the strings are hovering over the lower end of the circular pole pieces. In conclusion, it looks like the bridge was installed incorrectly, hence why the strings are all playing further lower in comparison to the center of the entire fretboard. Of course, this is only an issue if the high E string falls off the neck during soloing / vibrato. Just my observation.
IMO this bridge design is ok, it just needs to sit at a slight angle to give the saddles a better brake angle and the head piece needs to be a tad lower so it also can have a better brake angle. These guitars are just rushed the same factory is probably cranking out several models of the leo james guitars so they cant spend alot of time on all of them. At this price im sure they are selling a TON of them too. I like the other bridge better with the little crank tool that attaches on the side. The ball at the headstock and winding it at the bridge imo thats a better design. I adjust the tuners with a guitar pick i only use the tool to string it up then its fine tune with a pick
Chris, those are infact stainless steel frets! They simply just aren’t polished, think about it! Nickel strings are gonna scratch like crazy against a hard material (stainless steel) compared to a material as soft as those strings (nickel). Aka, unpolished frets are gonna have a lot of friction, but ss frets will have even more so, do to it being a harder material.
The zero fret issue is down to the nut slots which can simply be cut lower which will mean the strings sit on the zero fret. The break angle of the bridge could also possibly be fixed with mods to increase that break angle. There is always things that can be done to fix things just like the frets if they have high points & that can be an issue on even expensive guitars. Even people who don't have the knowledge should at least have a go at look at fixing issues as they at least learn how things are made & knowledge is useful in going forward.
After buying 3 of these and doing mods to all 3 ive come to the conclusion that the best mod you can do is cut the nut slots deeper then raise the zero fret. The zero fret is the same size fret as the rest and it cant be like this. The zero fret needs to be slightly taller or it buzzes bad. How i fixed mine was first i removed the nut then the zero fret pops out pretty easy. Then i used strips of foil tape and raised the zero fret with 2 thin layers. I pushed the zero fret back in and it raised the string height just enough that the string buzz went away. I think ill try and find a new zero fret this is the true way to fix it. I just wanted to see the least i needed to do to get it playable
I agree with triax. If you bought this as an assembled guitar ready to play, then sure, those design flaws are unacceptable. I'm going to buy the kit. I've been working with wood for 50 yrs and none of those problems scare me. I appreciate the video, gives me information I may need.
Had those cheap tuners on an AliExpress guitar I got. It's terrible. I prefer the licensed by KD on my Eart or Volgoa. The guitar looks nice but not with that bridge. The Eart is a great guitar, the Volgoa needed lots of work.
I got this one: www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLNJQ7FJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details Excellent quality, but it doesn't come with its own mounting screws.
There are lots of improvements: lack of headstock means much better balance, lack of extra string length above the nut means much better tuning stability, usually more ergonomic, much lighter without separate machine heads, easier to transport, if they are well made they have amazing sustain and they Look awesome!
Not really. Shimming the neck will not change the angle of the string coming off the saddle enough. It gets the strings closer to the frets and with an angled shim will change the angle of the string in front of the saddle. To really fix it, the bridge itself also needs an angle shim in the front of the bridge. I had to do all of that to my Eart GW2-pro. Not ideal. IMO changing to a better bridge is the best option.
Did you ever do a second video? I can not find one on your site. Your dead on with the things wrong with the guitar. Those are not stainless frets. The bridge is riding on the head of the bottom mounting plate screws. You need to use a counter sink drill bit and change the screws to flat head drywall screws. This guitar is so nice, but it is a mess. Leo Jaymz name should not be on it. I's just bad quality control and bad workman ship. I have this guitar and you can not buy this unless you know how to work on guitars.
That is a car crash of a guitar! I bought a cheap headless guitar last year and it had the other type of bridge which was actually pretty sweet despite the bad reviews… the finish on it was laughable but way better than yon thing… did you ever sort your one?
REALLY? there was problems? On a $179 dollar prebuilt kit guitar? Nooooo that can't BE!!!! Decent pickups these days are starting close to $150 for the set and you were expecting what for $179?
Of course I expect issues at this price.... But a guitar at ANY price should at a minimum, be playable once its tuned. Wouldn't you agree? Otherwise, its not a guitar is it? More of a decorative piece. I'm simply trying to help people understand what they will get, should they decide to buy one. Thanks for watching!
@@ChrisTompkins-Music-And-Gear Well no not really.. Its a musical instrument that requires precision and skill to make properly. Most normal thinking people understand and grasp this concept. They wouldn't expect to be handed something for nothing which is basically the level things like this have become. On the other hand the people selling stuff like this understand and pray on the silly humanz we have these days that don't get that concept and will gladly hand you anything you are willing to pay for to you.
You're certainly not wrong. But, the whole point to why I make videos of these guitars, is to show people what you can expect to get, when you buy one of these. If enough people find this video, it might prevent someone from pulling the trigger. Since I am a capable guitar tech, I know I can fix most of the issues these will have and often turn duds into something totally acceptable and have fun along the way. If this video helps anyone, I'm good with that. There have been some helpless duds that I've demoed over the years, but mostly some righteous gear. If you look at my channel, you'll see that I do this for even high end guitars and everything in between. I appreciate your point of view. Thanks!
@@ChrisTompkins-Music-And-Gear maybe you got a dud, I ordered the diy AX model everything seems fine. Pretty cool you don't need to solder anything it's all plug in
In defense of cheap guitars I just returned a $1100.00 PRS SE Pauls guitar that had a ground issue, a nasty overlooked and cleared over finish issue which is a bad start. The most unbelievable problem was 12 out of 24 frets were high when checked with a Fret rocker. That is close to unbelievable! They set it up high it seems hoping to hide that..
prs se koreans were better
The way it was buzzing at the bridge I thought you might have a headless sitar lol. Love your honesty though and look forward to your fixes and mods.
Thanks for the heads up..good info...
Thanks for the info. Good review
Looking forward to your next video!
To fix the bridge, couldn't you just recess the footprint a bit? Maybe even put a slight slope on it, away from the headstock.
As for the headstock, I would just recess the footprint for the clamp. And potentially drill a hole through it towards the north and put a screw in. Or have some type of retention to pull the nose of it down.
Yes. In fact, I had to do that on the Eart GW2-pro guitar that had this same exact hardware. You end up having gaps under the neck and the bridge, which reduces the stability and the sustain of the instrument. The replacement bridge fixes the issue completely. Video soon. :)
I bought one, absolutely loved it. My brother played the heck out of it.
Ty for the review I almost bought one !!!
I had a hunch everything you are saying would be the case! I just returned the 2nd Latitude Cardinal I bought off Amazon. They have their own serious issues. Necks are pretty good but that is it. The body cavity was cut wrong and the cable connector will not tighten in place. A very obvious mistake and both had that issue. The bridge is installed to high and there is no height adjustment. The body needs to be milled lower to get the bridge to where the height adjuster will do anything. As you said there were built by people that know very little about how a guitar works. Both the ones I tried were the back ones. Perhaps they know that are the problem ones and cut the price for that reason. I have no way of knowing. Two showing the same problems was enough for me.
Hey Chris, im curious, with all the nice guitars you have, what is it that you see in these cheap (and often terrible) guitars that compells you to buy them?
Project aspect?
I am always curious and hopeful that someone will make an affordable guitar that is worth having. I also like to help people make informed decisions when purchasing a guitar. And, I do love a challenge of making a cheap guitar play better with mods, as a hobby.
What bridge were you looking at ordering for it?
🤘🤘🤘Super!
I have mine sorted out more or less. The input jack had to go! POP POP! One pickup was off to one side and I had to remount it. But I mi\ust say its better than the Latitude Caedinal that sells for way more.
Any updates on this Leo Jaymz? I'm jonesing for a Strandberg but can't / won't afford one for a while. This Leo Jaymz has the design elements of the Strandberg, along with the five-way blade switch capability. It's got everything I want except for the multi-scale thing. It seems like a guitar with which I can dip my toes in the headless water. I'm just kind of waiting on how your upgrades went.
I scrapped this project... Just not a good enough quality to bother spending the amount of time, effort and money on... The frets were wonky, the neck was unstable, etc... I'd recommend you try to find a used Eart headless, if you want a decent quality inexpensive 1st headless.
I also bought one of these, but with a flame maple top. Absolute firewood. Design is great, but the execution is worse than bottom shelf. Here are some of the issues: zero fret was making contact with some strings and not others. With that fixed, upper frets still won't intonate because they are spaced incorrectly. Pickups were too high, so they fretted out past the 19th fret. When I tried to lower them, the neck pickup screw came through the back of the body. When I tried to remove the pickup screws, they broke off in the body. The bridge was wayyy too far forward, when I moved it back, it exposed a huge crack in the top veneer under the bridge. Frets were nowhere near level, so I fixed that. After 90+ hours of work, the guitar feels pretty good in the hands but sounds like a piece of trash.
I’ve been through 6 of these so far and they all have been messed up. The first two were the brown ash body version which is beautifully done but the bridge was mounted too far towards the neck and they could not have proper intonation set. I next switched to the purple/blue model you have in your video and the paint jobs were completely different. One was a beautiful transition color and the other was almost black. Both of these had their pickup routes too far towards the low E side of the guitar and the strings didn’t line up with the pole pieces (which I can see in your model also). Then I switched to the green burst model and neither of them matched colors and they both had their bridges mounted too far towards the high E side of the guitar which put the high E string very close to the edge of the fretboard. I communicated the issues with Leo Jaymz and they said they knew they had production problems and told me to go buy a guitar from someone else.
U did an Amazon review?
I got 3 of them they were all the same, i got a birl one first when they were $189. they had a bunch of colors then i got 2 of the brown and red ash ones and they have the same issues. They think the nut is where the strings should lay but with a zero fret the strings need to lay over it or the intonation will be all out of whack. I prefer a zero fret the sustain is better then with the nut. But the nut prevents string roll if bending close to the zero fret these are issues the steinberger has.
I almost bought one. Every day I checked for new reviews to see if it was worth it. In the end I just bought another NK. If they end up fixing the issues in a revised model I may scoop one up
Me 2, I have the yellow Green tempest. It needed so much neck work. It sounds great . I'm not sure
Stunning look BUT why a fat fender square neck joint on a moderne headless guitar ? And why the jack socket is on the side for thigh sitting ? That stupid.
You can shim the neck to increase the saddle height. The rest, you gotta be working.
Pause at 0:36 .....I noticed that the string spacing (when viewed over the entire fretboard at the 24th fret) looked like the high E might tend to fall off the fretboard during bends. Also, now look at the low E string (at the 24th) This looks like it has way too much playing space on the fretboard. Now look at the bridge pickup. All the strings are hovering over the lower end of the circular pole pieces. In conclusion, it looks like the bridge was installed incorrectly, hence why the strings are all playing further lower in comparison to the center of the entire fretboard. Of course, this is only an issue if the high E string falls off the neck during soloing / vibrato. Just my observation.
Honestly you get what you pay for be grateful you can afford that cause some people can't
I was gonna buy the color change one. I got the leo jaymi tempest. It need neck work .neck humbucker DON'T WORK lol .
IMO this bridge design is ok, it just needs to sit at a slight angle to give the saddles a better brake angle and the head piece needs to be a tad lower so it also can have a better brake angle. These guitars are just rushed the same factory is probably cranking out several models of the leo james guitars so they cant spend alot of time on all of them. At this price im sure they are selling a TON of them too. I like the other bridge better with the little crank tool that attaches on the side. The ball at the headstock and winding it at the bridge imo thats a better design. I adjust the tuners with a guitar pick i only use the tool to string it up then its fine tune with a pick
Chris, those are infact stainless steel frets! They simply just aren’t polished, think about it! Nickel strings are gonna scratch like crazy against a hard material (stainless steel) compared to a material as soft as those strings (nickel). Aka, unpolished frets are gonna have a lot of friction, but ss frets will have even more so, do to it being a harder material.
Did you ever mod this thing out? Just curious how it turned out. Thanks!
I have not. Likely won't tbh... Too many other projects taking precedence over it.
Can you recommend a lefty headless guitar that might play well out of the box that isn't crazy expensive?
Check out Agile guitars or Eart guitars.
The zero fret issue is down to the nut slots which can simply be cut lower which will mean the strings sit on the zero fret. The break angle of the bridge could also possibly be fixed with mods to increase that break angle. There is always things that can be done to fix things just like the frets if they have high points & that can be an issue on even expensive guitars. Even people who don't have the knowledge should at least have a go at look at fixing issues as they at least learn how things are made & knowledge is useful in going forward.
After buying 3 of these and doing mods to all 3 ive come to the conclusion that the best mod you can do is cut the nut slots deeper then raise the zero fret. The zero fret is the same size fret as the rest and it cant be like this. The zero fret needs to be slightly taller or it buzzes bad. How i fixed mine was first i removed the nut then the zero fret pops out pretty easy. Then i used strips of foil tape and raised the zero fret with 2 thin layers. I pushed the zero fret back in and it raised the string height just enough that the string buzz went away. I think ill try and find a new zero fret this is the true way to fix it. I just wanted to see the least i needed to do to get it playable
I agree with triax. If you bought this as an assembled guitar ready to play, then sure, those design flaws are unacceptable. I'm going to buy the kit. I've been working with wood for 50 yrs and none of those problems scare me. I appreciate the video, gives me information I may need.
One thing I have learned about headless is that cheap hardware doesn't fly. Especially the bridge. If they are trash, ruins the whole instrument.
That Strandberg shape has really become a thing.
Had those cheap tuners on an AliExpress guitar I got. It's terrible. I prefer the licensed by KD on my Eart or Volgoa. The guitar looks nice but not with that bridge. The Eart is a great guitar, the Volgoa needed lots of work.
Are you still planning to do a follow-up to this video?
Maybe. I've kinda put it on the back burner, so I can focus on some other projects. It may just end up as wall art.
I'm not sure those 2 pieces of "walnut" on the neck make any difference at all in term of strengh...
May I ask what replacement bridge you used?
I got this one:
www.amazon.com/dp/B0BLNJQ7FJ?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
Excellent quality, but it doesn't come with its own mounting screws.
Cool
Will you ever do the video on why headless guitars are an improvement?
Just a travel guitar.
Lighter and shorter
There are lots of improvements: lack of headstock means much better balance, lack of extra string length above the nut means much better tuning stability, usually more ergonomic, much lighter without separate machine heads, easier to transport, if they are well made they have amazing sustain and they Look awesome!
Maybe one day. Right now I have a bunch of gear to do demo's with.
If you get a good one they are great. Light weight and easy to handle in every way. Good cheap ones is the hard part right now..
could you not shim the neck fixing the action and the break angle in one fell swoop?
Not really. Shimming the neck will not change the angle of the string coming off the saddle enough. It gets the strings closer to the frets and with an angled shim will change the angle of the string in front of the saddle. To really fix it, the bridge itself also needs an angle shim in the front of the bridge. I had to do all of that to my Eart GW2-pro. Not ideal. IMO changing to a better bridge is the best option.
Did you ever do a second video? I can not find one on your site. Your dead on with the things wrong with the guitar. Those are not stainless frets. The bridge is riding on the head of the bottom mounting plate screws. You need to use a counter sink drill bit and change the screws to flat head drywall screws. This guitar is so nice, but it is a mess. Leo Jaymz name should not be on it. I's just bad quality control and bad workman ship. I have this guitar and you can not buy this unless you know how to work on guitars.
No 2nd video. I scrapped this as a project.
That is a car crash of a guitar!
I bought a cheap headless guitar last year and it had the other type of bridge which was actually pretty sweet despite the bad reviews… the finish on it was laughable but way better than yon thing… did you ever sort your one?
No. This thing is trash...
Sad that such bad instruments exist!@@ChrisTompkins-Music-And-Gear
Amazon link cause i'm a masochist
LOL!!
www.amazon.com/dp/B0BW8QQ9JK?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1
What the crap dude. You paid 189.00! Why you started by saying you had high hopes. And then go into griping 😂
REALLY? there was problems? On a $179 dollar prebuilt kit guitar? Nooooo that can't BE!!!! Decent pickups these days are starting close to $150 for the set and you were expecting what for $179?
Of course I expect issues at this price.... But a guitar at ANY price should at a minimum, be playable once its tuned. Wouldn't you agree? Otherwise, its not a guitar is it? More of a decorative piece. I'm simply trying to help people understand what they will get, should they decide to buy one. Thanks for watching!
@@ChrisTompkins-Music-And-Gear Well no not really.. Its a musical instrument that requires precision and skill to make properly.
Most normal thinking people understand and grasp this concept. They wouldn't expect to be handed something for nothing which is basically the level things like this have become. On the other hand the people selling stuff like this understand and pray on the silly humanz we have these days that don't get that concept and will gladly hand you anything you are willing to pay for to you.
You're certainly not wrong. But, the whole point to why I make videos of these guitars, is to show people what you can expect to get, when you buy one of these. If enough people find this video, it might prevent someone from pulling the trigger. Since I am a capable guitar tech, I know I can fix most of the issues these will have and often turn duds into something totally acceptable and have fun along the way. If this video helps anyone, I'm good with that. There have been some helpless duds that I've demoed over the years, but mostly some righteous gear. If you look at my channel, you'll see that I do this for even high end guitars and everything in between. I appreciate your point of view. Thanks!
I am NOW UNSUBCRIBED
Unfortunately you get what you pay for.
It's $179 and you expected gold lmao
No. But a playable guitar for sure!
@@ChrisTompkins-Music-And-Gear maybe you got a dud, I ordered the diy AX model everything seems fine. Pretty cool you don't need to solder anything it's all plug in