Lucifer throwing away the note confused a lot of people, which is too bad, because I think it was a nice attempt at a little extra world-building. Lucifer didn't _physically_ travel to Hell, so how would he bring the note back? His only option was to memorize it. The thing with the jackets was similar--any _actual_ physical jackets were back on Earth the whole time. (The tricky part is explaining why Mom still looked like Charlotte, but oh well.☺)
I love Lucifer making this sacrifice (even after finding out what he has about Chloe), and I love how each person (Linda, Maze, Amenadiel, Dan, Ella, even Mom) helping in their own way to save Chloe. I love the emotional conflict for Lucifer : his brother when he goes back to Hell -- Tom Ellis plays the intensity and horror (of stabbing him over and over again) so damn well. And the peak of the episode, with the music and the urgency of it all, as they try to save Chloe and simultaneously bring Lucifer back... I love it. It's just such a good episode all around. ❤
Lucifer's soul traveled to hell, there was no way he could keep a piece of paper in his pocket. He simply read the ingredients and memorized them. Mum made a great sacrifice for Lucifer, she faced her greatest fear, returning to hell, but even though she was a great manipulator, her love for her son overcame her fear. I believe that Linda felt responsible for Lucifer's death, and that is why she offered to sacrifice herself and go to hell. The question is, why is Linda, who knows that it is guilt that drags souls to hell, is so sure that she will not go to heaven? What guilt does Linda carry in her soul?
"not back to hell... Miami?" Got me laughing. Amenediel as an angel has a way to make people at ease. The more innocent they are, the more they trust him immediately. The following episode is among my favorites for the whole show. Looking forward to your reaction to it.
Lucifer told Trixie he was the devil when they first met. She is a child and doesnt question it and accepts him as the devil. Amenadiel, being his brother, makes him an angel.
He didn't tell her he was the devil, only confirmed that his name was the same as the devil's. Like her name's the same as a hooggah's ;) Just because Maze showed her the face doesn't mean Trixie understands she is a demon. She assumed very early on that people like Lucifer and Maze are magicians who perform cool tricks and that is as much as a little girl can comprehend, and must know.
I'm with Lucifer on the whole "putting Chloe in his path" thing. Something a lot of people forget, don't think about, or actively ignore is that free will requires information. If you don't have all the information, you can't make a free decision. So if someone actively keeps information away from you -- like "she's blessed for this reason and I did it so you'd meet and fall in love" -- that's intentionally limiting free will, i.e. manipulation. And that's not okay, even if it's done for noble reasons.
I think you're a bit too absolut about this. Even nowadays it's still being debated what free will actually is. But none of the definition attempts I've heard so far require to have "all the information". If that were required, only an omnicient being could excert free will, i.e. only God (and presumably Goddess before she went to Hell). You have all the freedom to trust or not trust the information you've got and research or investigate any parts you're doubtful about. And you have the freedom to make decisions based on that partial knowledge, knowing that it is not necessarily complete or fully true. That seems like free will to me. Also, what makes you think God was "actively keep[ing] information away" from Lucifer? As far as we know he didn't tell Amenadiel to keep quiet about it, nor did he try to remove any evidence or hints (e.g. the photo in that bar was still hanging there). We also don't know that he intended for them to meet and fall in love. All we know is that he didn't directly tell Lucifer about it, but given the state of their (God + Lucifer) relationship, what would that have done? Lucifer would either have ignored the message without listening or, if he did listen, would in his typical rebellious mindset of "I'll do whatever you don't want me to do" went out of his way to avoid meeting Chloe. So telling him would only have influenced his decision more, made it less free. In the end, the biggest thing we never know, is the actual intention of all the people around us. Why do they do what they do, why do they tell us some things and not tell other things? We make assumptions about that all the time, often sufficiently correct to lead to more or less the same outcome, but sometimes woefully wrong, with catastrophic consequences. That risk of a misunderstanding is part of free will, and it's also why sometimes it's morally better to not tell something, or even to lie.
@@lukasr5867 Consider this simplified example: you are in a hallway that forks into two. As far as you know, the left path is booby trapped so that taking one step into it douses you with lighter fluid and sets you on fire. The other path leads to the outside. With that information, do you really have a free choice of where to go? If you stay where you are, you'll starve to death eventually. If you go left, you'll burn to death. Your only "choices", then, are "go right or die". Now, the booby trap *might* be fake. Likewise, the right path *might* be booby trapped. And staying in place, someone *might* come rescue you. But with the information you have, testing any of that out gets you killed. So given that risk/reward analysis, would you really call that a "free" choice when, as far as you can possibly know, all choices are suicide except one? The existence of a possible course of action is not, to me, the same as a free choice if your information says that action is unreasonably risky.
@@IceMetalPunk I would argue free will means you exercise a choice whether or not you have all the information or even accurate information. I can choose to step outside without a coat even if I don't know it's freezing - and trust me, I've done that!
Anna, if Dr. Linda is a psychiatrist (vs. a psychologist) she had to get an M.D. first, then specialize. (My BiL got his at Harvard Med.) IOW, she really is a doctor, though undoubtedly out of practice with the body. (I've discussed with my BiL how real shrinks have been reduced to little more than a psycho-pharmicologists nowadays. IMO a real waste of talent.) This episode jibes with my vision of Hell (vs. that of Dante). I recommend a B movies called *The Rapture.* Prurient, sometimes tedious, but sets up for an ending that will have you thinking for a long time. DMF says, "Check it out."
Her titles are MD, PsyD, PhD, MA, MPhil. Psychiatry would be part of her MD specialization and she later went on to study Psychology and Philosophy. I agree, she is probably out of practice, maybe never got a lot of experience in the field. She might even have surrendered her licence for that reason, this would not prevent her from working as a therapist.
Amenadeil= guardian angel. Lucifer tossed the paper as he had to memorise the method because it wouldn't come back to earth with him. His mum literally went to hell for her son, and also the 1 he loves but he can't forgive her for all of her manipulations before it. Please dont leave it so long before the next reaction!
The biggest inaccuracy was that you can’t shock when someone flatlines. You need a shockable rhythm, which are Ventricular Tachycardia and Ventricular Fibrillation. This is the biggest misconception in all series and movies.
You're gonna want to slap Lucifer upside the head at the beginning of the next episode, but hold back until the end. Trixie is either too trusting, or as many children do, sees/perceives past the superficial and senses that both Lucifer and Amenadiel are in fact Angels. Your musing about Dad doing this for both sons to learn something - and musing that it is 3.5 seasons until we find out the bottom line on Chloe? Can't say if your hunches are right or wrong, but they are interesting.
I love this episode. Lucifer does act like a spoiled child at times - ok a lot the time. Lol you keep asking great questions and they will be answered sooner or later or much later. Lol
Linda presents herself as a very practical person, but she's also super curious and very empathetic. I don't think she thought this one through all the way, but got swept up in all the supernatural sacrificing. She's the only one who knows that they're incredible beings and she's also the only one who knows how normal they really are. Their therapy sessions are nothing she hasn't seen in normal human families before. They have humongus egos (they might actually be entitled to as angels and gods) and zero self awareness, but their problems are completely normal. But then they think of solutions like "send me to hell!" and I think Linda loses her sense of reality a little bit in this.
Psychologists and psychiatrists are two different things Psychiatrists are MD, go through med school, specialize, etc; psychologists are not. Psychiatrists have script pads and can prescribe medication. Psychologists can't prescribe because they are not an MD doctor.
You ask so many good questions , just wait and watch , I don't recall any of your queries yet will go unanswered . That part of the fun in the writing and it just gets more intricate , sometimes frustratingly so , in a good way .
This arc of designer poisons is probably scientifically the weakest in the series (they do have some much stronger ones later that might appear fictionally based). Poisonings just don't develop this way - at M hours it's bleeding from nose, then seizures and something else at N, but insides are boiling exactly at 24 hours; even if you don't see/feel other symptoms, nasal bleeding after systemic injection already means significant internal damage which doesn't just go away once you've inactivated the poison with antidote. Defibrillators also work to stop the heart (this part was right) but not to restart its cyclic work (this is done by CPR after previous erratic rhythm is stopped) but this trope is so overused it's senseless to try excluding it... Hm... And that Hamilton/Washington reference from you was unexpected...
Lucifer throwing away the note confused a lot of people, which is too bad, because I think it was a nice attempt at a little extra world-building. Lucifer didn't _physically_ travel to Hell, so how would he bring the note back? His only option was to memorize it. The thing with the jackets was similar--any _actual_ physical jackets were back on Earth the whole time. (The tricky part is explaining why Mom still looked like Charlotte, but oh well.☺)
He's got near perfect memory, unless he gets distracted.
Trixie is always the most perceptive person in the room. Trust her instincts.
Wait for the next episode, he'll be the most Lucifer he's been in a while and it will be amazing
I think this episode was originally a mid season finale, so the resolution of it only came after the end of the year hiatus
I think my favorite line of Maize's, "oops." Said so contritely, lol! 😆😆😆
And my favourite "Maze!" from Linda sounds so motherly.
@@captbunnykiller1.0 Like the disappointed mother ROFL 🤣🤣🤣
I love Lucifer making this sacrifice (even after finding out what he has about Chloe), and I love how each person (Linda, Maze, Amenadiel, Dan, Ella, even Mom) helping in their own way to save Chloe. I love the emotional conflict for Lucifer : his brother when he goes back to Hell -- Tom Ellis plays the intensity and horror (of stabbing him over and over again) so damn well. And the peak of the episode, with the music and the urgency of it all, as they try to save Chloe and simultaneously bring Lucifer back... I love it. It's just such a good episode all around. ❤
Lucifer's soul traveled to hell, there was no way he could keep a piece of paper in his pocket. He simply read the ingredients and memorized them.
Mum made a great sacrifice for Lucifer, she faced her greatest fear, returning to hell, but even though she was a great manipulator, her love for her son overcame her fear.
I believe that Linda felt responsible for Lucifer's death, and that is why she offered to sacrifice herself and go to hell. The question is, why is Linda, who knows that it is guilt that drags souls to hell, is so sure that she will not go to heaven? What guilt does Linda carry in her soul?
Depends on her belief system
Though, sleeping with the devil would cause most to think that act would close the heaven doors for her.
"not back to hell... Miami?" Got me laughing.
Amenediel as an angel has a way to make people at ease. The more innocent they are, the more they trust him immediately.
The following episode is among my favorites for the whole show. Looking forward to your reaction to it.
I weep for Lucifer's mom when she's pulled away from the only place her dead son exits.
ya see, Uriel's special "power" was seeing patterns, and where do you think he got that ability from? - Dad, who also can see patterns thus Chloe.
Lucifer told Trixie he was the devil when they first met. She is a child and doesnt question it and accepts him as the devil. Amenadiel, being his brother, makes him an angel.
Well, that's assuming that she knows the lore i.e. that "the Devil" is a fallen angel. Where would she get that?
Most adults don't even make that connection that the devil is a fallen angel. So not surprising Trixie wouldn't make the connection.
He didn't tell her he was the devil, only confirmed that his name was the same as the devil's. Like her name's the same as a hooggah's ;) Just because Maze showed her the face doesn't mean Trixie understands she is a demon. She assumed very early on that people like Lucifer and Maze are magicians who perform cool tricks and that is as much as a little girl can comprehend, and must know.
And later in the season she asked Chloe "Is Lucifer a magician?" So no, at least by that point Trixie didn't consider Lucifer a real devil.
I'm with Lucifer on the whole "putting Chloe in his path" thing. Something a lot of people forget, don't think about, or actively ignore is that free will requires information. If you don't have all the information, you can't make a free decision. So if someone actively keeps information away from you -- like "she's blessed for this reason and I did it so you'd meet and fall in love" -- that's intentionally limiting free will, i.e. manipulation. And that's not okay, even if it's done for noble reasons.
I think you're a bit too absolut about this. Even nowadays it's still being debated what free will actually is. But none of the definition attempts I've heard so far require to have "all the information". If that were required, only an omnicient being could excert free will, i.e. only God (and presumably Goddess before she went to Hell). You have all the freedom to trust or not trust the information you've got and research or investigate any parts you're doubtful about. And you have the freedom to make decisions based on that partial knowledge, knowing that it is not necessarily complete or fully true. That seems like free will to me.
Also, what makes you think God was "actively keep[ing] information away" from Lucifer? As far as we know he didn't tell Amenadiel to keep quiet about it, nor did he try to remove any evidence or hints (e.g. the photo in that bar was still hanging there). We also don't know that he intended for them to meet and fall in love. All we know is that he didn't directly tell Lucifer about it, but given the state of their (God + Lucifer) relationship, what would that have done? Lucifer would either have ignored the message without listening or, if he did listen, would in his typical rebellious mindset of "I'll do whatever you don't want me to do" went out of his way to avoid meeting Chloe. So telling him would only have influenced his decision more, made it less free.
In the end, the biggest thing we never know, is the actual intention of all the people around us. Why do they do what they do, why do they tell us some things and not tell other things? We make assumptions about that all the time, often sufficiently correct to lead to more or less the same outcome, but sometimes woefully wrong, with catastrophic consequences. That risk of a misunderstanding is part of free will, and it's also why sometimes it's morally better to not tell something, or even to lie.
@@lukasr5867 Makes sense. To me, free will HAS to exist, or our choices would be meanlingless . . .
@@lukasr5867 Consider this simplified example: you are in a hallway that forks into two. As far as you know, the left path is booby trapped so that taking one step into it douses you with lighter fluid and sets you on fire. The other path leads to the outside. With that information, do you really have a free choice of where to go? If you stay where you are, you'll starve to death eventually. If you go left, you'll burn to death. Your only "choices", then, are "go right or die".
Now, the booby trap *might* be fake. Likewise, the right path *might* be booby trapped. And staying in place, someone *might* come rescue you. But with the information you have, testing any of that out gets you killed.
So given that risk/reward analysis, would you really call that a "free" choice when, as far as you can possibly know, all choices are suicide except one? The existence of a possible course of action is not, to me, the same as a free choice if your information says that action is unreasonably risky.
@@rowenatulley852 I never said free will doesn't exist. I said free will requires accurate information.
@@IceMetalPunk I would argue free will means you exercise a choice whether or not you have all the information or even accurate information. I can choose to step outside without a coat even if I don't know it's freezing - and trust me, I've done that!
Anna, if Dr. Linda is a psychiatrist (vs. a psychologist) she had to get an M.D. first, then specialize. (My BiL got his at Harvard Med.) IOW, she really is a doctor, though undoubtedly out of practice with the body. (I've discussed with my BiL how real shrinks have been reduced to little more than a psycho-pharmicologists nowadays. IMO a real waste of talent.)
This episode jibes with my vision of Hell (vs. that of Dante). I recommend a B movies called *The Rapture.* Prurient, sometimes tedious, but sets up for an ending that will have you thinking for a long time. DMF says, "Check it out."
Her titles are MD, PsyD, PhD, MA, MPhil. Psychiatry would be part of her MD specialization and she later went on to study Psychology and Philosophy. I agree, she is probably out of practice, maybe never got a lot of experience in the field. She might even have surrendered her licence for that reason, this would not prevent her from working as a therapist.
@@captbunnykiller1.0 Are those written somewhere (could have missed myself) or taken from s6 where Lucifer calls her PPE as well?
One good deed doesn't make up for the past. The mother going to hell doesnt make up for all the manipulation and lies, right?
Amenadeil= guardian angel.
Lucifer tossed the paper as he had to memorise the method because it wouldn't come back to earth with him.
His mum literally went to hell for her son, and also the 1 he loves but he can't forgive her for all of her manipulations before it.
Please dont leave it so long before the next reaction!
The biggest inaccuracy was that you can’t shock when someone flatlines. You need a shockable rhythm, which are Ventricular Tachycardia and Ventricular Fibrillation. This is the biggest misconception in all series and movies.
Been anxiously awaiting this one. Such a special episode.
you know i really really really love candy!.
hell, me too.
@Anna next episode will be a fun one. you're going to _love_ it!
You're gonna want to slap Lucifer upside the head at the beginning of the next episode, but hold back until the end. Trixie is either too trusting, or as many children do, sees/perceives past the superficial and senses that both Lucifer and Amenadiel are in fact Angels.
Your musing about Dad doing this for both sons to learn something - and musing that it is 3.5 seasons until we find out the bottom line on Chloe? Can't say if your hunches are right or wrong, but they are interesting.
Wait wait wait
it’s getting better the whole time 😂🎉
Love your reactions hahaha
I love this episode. Lucifer does act like a spoiled child at times - ok a lot the time. Lol you keep asking great questions and they will be answered sooner or later or much later. Lol
He is very much like his mother, that's why they don't get along.
Linda presents herself as a very practical person, but she's also super curious and very empathetic. I don't think she thought this one through all the way, but got swept up in all the supernatural sacrificing. She's the only one who knows that they're incredible beings and she's also the only one who knows how normal they really are. Their therapy sessions are nothing she hasn't seen in normal human families before. They have humongus egos (they might actually be entitled to as angels and gods) and zero self awareness, but their problems are completely normal. But then they think of solutions like "send me to hell!" and I think Linda loses her sense of reality a little bit in this.
This episode is soooo good! BUT THE NEXT INE IS EVEN BETTER (in my humble opinion;). Thanks for the reaction 😊
I love Maze so much!
If Linda is a psychiatrist, she did go to medical school. However, I'm not sure if that was explicitely stated in the series . . .
It was explicitly stated in this episode:
Linda: So what's my role?
Lucifer: You went to medical school...
Linda: A long, _long_ time ago!
@@xtifr Dang, I missed it!
Cool. Beer clouds just rolled in. Perfect 🍻
You’re doing well with those afterthoughts. God has a plan and that’s all I’m going to say. Great reaction 🤩
This episode is when i indeed saw mom not had "evil plan" to revenge lucifer
Psychologists and psychiatrists are two different things
Psychiatrists are MD, go through med school, specialize, etc; psychologists are not.
Psychiatrists have script pads and can prescribe medication.
Psychologists can't prescribe because they are not an MD doctor.
You ask so many good questions , just wait and watch , I don't recall any of your queries yet will go unanswered . That part of the fun in the writing and it just gets more intricate , sometimes frustratingly so , in a good way .
Ok next episode is a classic, you will love it because.
This episode was the mid-season finale. there was a three? month break between this episode and the next.
25:42 How would God know Lucifer would go to Los Angeles? People of earth have free will. Not a good plan.
I remember at this point I figured it out as you have the pieces to the puzzle just don't be Lucifer.
👋from🇨🇦!Well, Mom had no powers when hubby sent her to Hell and Lucy tortured her, and she said she'd do anything for her son...
This arc of designer poisons is probably scientifically the weakest in the series (they do have some much stronger ones later that might appear fictionally based). Poisonings just don't develop this way - at M hours it's bleeding from nose, then seizures and something else at N, but insides are boiling exactly at 24 hours; even if you don't see/feel other symptoms, nasal bleeding after systemic injection already means significant internal damage which doesn't just go away once you've inactivated the poison with antidote. Defibrillators also work to stop the heart (this part was right) but not to restart its cyclic work (this is done by CPR after previous erratic rhythm is stopped) but this trope is so overused it's senseless to try excluding it...
Hm... And that Hamilton/Washington reference from you was unexpected...
Apparently you, Anna, have never conversed with an angel. They're naturally trustworthy and disarming. 😉
Otherwise, as described by Yehezkel, they would be downright scary.
@@tatewakinew It can be difficult seeing them eye to eye to eye to eye to eye to...
i got a joint and a glass of sprite
Let's get it and can I give you a list of shows I got for you
Well, Luci is a girl's name, so it is just fitting that he behaves like a teenage girl!
Jayne is a girl's name.
Funny enough, Tom Ellis's twin sister is named Lucy.