I had this awkward battle yesterday in my ark royal A sub Was hunting me around the whole map i couldnt do anything but Spot him And he couldnt do anything to me because he couldnt catch up when he was diving 😅 It was awkward but fun I mean i wouldnt mind having a deapthcharge squadron that i can fly around with or make it manually
The whole CV vs sub thing doesn't really bother me to begin with. If a DD/sub or heck even the other CV goes after me when I play CV I feel it's actually beneficial for my team. They contribute nothing to their team while you can strike where your team's fighting and push the engagement in their favor. Maybe they could add something like a tactical squadron with ASW but even then idk that it's necessary. The average sub has very little battle impact so adding additional pressure from anywhere in the map isn't gonna help. Of course there's the odd sub player that can be a nightmare but those are rare.
I think it is because dropping whatever you are doing for a CV means leaving your squadron which takes over a minute to return to the CV. It gets worse when much of that squadron has been damaged by AA. Automating the ASW planes was a necessary move on Wargaming's part since CVs can't control their carrier while flying planes, meaning that the game needs to do it for them.
CV's don't have much of a way to deal with submarines. Except an automatic DCP that lasts for 1 whole minute. Meanwhile, Dutch cruisers have literally no means of dealing with subs.
ecept a dcp and guns to fight subs when they are on the surface while CVs have only secondaries and maybe he bomber. BUT YES all ships should have anti sub weapons
@@Mer4ydin i don't think WG will do this it's like to them its asking give all ships radar to counter DDs ofc they don't do that iv seen a pattern in which most ships that don't have sonar have ASW but the ones that do don't get ASW since they can spot subs
@@doomguy.23frommars60 teh ships i have seen without any for of anti sub weapon are the netherland cruiser line, hybrid ships and CVs. So even ships with sonar have an ASW your radar comparison is lacking one Point I was talking about a way to fight subs not counter or spot them.
@@doomguy.23frommars60 do DDs have any way to attack you while you can do nothing about it? DDs don't have homing torpedoes, in order to both spot and damage you they need to become visible themselves. Meanwhile subs can sonar ping, torp and spot you, and still remain undetected. Steffen is right, every ship needs to be able to damage any other ship, otherwise there is no counterplay. Dutch cruisers having no depth charges is shit design.
As a quality of life improvement for CVs, I'd have preferred the addition of fighter consumable support for low tier carriers. God knows low tier surface ships need cover support since they have virtually no AA, and yet CVs have no ability to help. Now, with regards to ASW for CVs, I'm ok with this as long a it provides some sort of counter play whereas there isn't any right now. I just don't think it needs to be automated, since carriers already get auto DCP and other hand held features.
Make aa and secondary in our control. We can switch back and forth. If u get disconnected from the game then a low to mid level bot take your ship over.
Next patch: CVs have automated evasive maneuvers and automated strike squadrons. Patch after: CVs can now leave the match without penalties and still get rewards
Seriously, just give CVs the option of switching one of their squadrons for depth charge squadrons! Manually control these planes to effectively and accurately hunt subs! But no, even MORE handholding for THE most protected ship type in the game. Meanwhile, surface ships like battleships and cruisers are still struggling to locate the damn subs in the heat of battle, let alone use their limited range airstrikes to even try to engage them...if there's any ships that should be getting auto DC airstrike, it's the warships that are DIRECTLY IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE, NOT CVs!!
The CV use to carry ASW specific fixed wing aircraft and these days ASW helicopters. Fixed wing relied on radar and magnetic anomaly detection (MAD), or sonar buoys that were both passive and active and would be dropped in a pattern, helicopters used dipping active sonars.
What wargaming should really do is replace the rocket squadrons with ASW squadrons, the carrier player controls them and can press a key to set a sonobuoy line that will detect subs and ships at all depths when they cross it, a MAD that detects subs at periscope depth, and a depth charge attack. However, a sonobuoy line/MAD cannot be used at the same time as dropping depth charges, meaning that if the carrier player wants to attack submarines, they have to lose vision on them and hope they hit. (Maybe add a cooldown between depth charging a sub and the sonobuoy working again so the carrier can’t just toggle between the 2). Maybe British and US high-tier CVs can get planes with dipping sonar that detects them at all depths but the aircraft are really slow while using them, and German, Japanese, and Soviet CVs can have more sonobuoys drop out when using the sonobuoy line to simulate them not having dipping sonar during WW2. (Or give Nakhimov helicopters that do everything above but are slow and fragile because all I want is to be able to pilot a squadron of Ka-29s in a WW2 game) Removes the annoyingness of the rocket aircraft and replaces them with a squadron so the CV focuses on detecting the submarine while the team can sink the sub once it’s detected.
@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev I would add a forth dedicated squadron for asw make it a slow moving heavily armored flying boat or patrol aircraft kind of like the hornets b25s and has the mad system it has to drop, then the player has to cycle weapons systems for the depth charges, one thing that would be interesting for US and UK is you could opt for an attack squadron with a reduced rocket load but have 2 mini depth charges that again you cycle through to use. Historically speaking allied navies did use this tactic of loading up fireflies, avengers or even f4fs with the mixed rocket depth charge loadout in conjunction with patrol aircraft to hunt enemy subs. They would have one or 2 aircraft flying low scanning the surface for a periscope or silhouette have the squadron drop depth charges to force the sub to the surface then finish it off with rockets. The Russians and super carriers like you said could get asw helicopters/gyrocopter with dipping sonar but have to do it 3 times around a sub and then could drop a short range asw torp but the squadron would be extremely fragile and wouldn't used in a offensive capacity strictly defensive.
@@billschara6856 I mean ww2 era is subjective when half the russian line that existed is built post war because russias metallurgy tech couldn't let them mass produce steel plate thicker than 5in and let's not forget a good chunk of the European dd line was built late to post war, and united states is a post war refit of midway, along with Forrest sherman that was built post war and Austin if it would have been built.
@@strykerk992 Yeah the thing is, with RTS CVs these mechanics would be really easy to implement, just a new squadron type that searches for submarines and one that drops depth charges (just like real life), but since the CV rework you can't operate several squadrons at once so it throws the entire "historically accurate aerial ASW" thing out the window as it has to be with 1 squadron only.
Reflects real world capability. USNI News has a very long article on it. I still maintain that subs should not be part of a surface engagement. Nimitz Grey Papers have numerous battle if Midway dispatches reminding US Commabders that there are friendly subs in the area and not to attack them.
@@Flomotion8000 more like 3 CVs mains complaining and WG will immediately listen and the players complaining about CVs and Subs, they won't, it's how it's, this's not the first time
@@jabaited You're just biased, as many are toward CVs. Won't say CVs are perfect the way they are. But there is a disproportionate amount of complaining about CVs compared to how bad they actually are. And the complains _about_ CVs led to one of the most significant gameplay changes ever since WoWS is out of beta. And again you might like or dislike the current state of CVs, what WG achieved at least is that they significantly decreased the impact a CV has on a match. Before the rework a good CV player easily dominated the entire match if the other CV wasn't as good. Now a CV can still do a lot, but just one thing at a time. Harass one ship, or keep a DD spotted or whatever. And the haters will still say they are OP and broken, but that's nothing but biased BS. A BB can delete a cruiser with one salvo, and without detonation RNG that is. Try that in a CV.
@@Flomotion8000 Bias of what? CVs are absolutely unfair, that's why only 1 or 2 per games, BBs can detonate cruisers , so what, that doesn't mean a class has no restrictions on how long they can attack, how far they can attack, long damage control, take no risk except losing planes which can be regenerate, can spot every others class without risking themself, has the best AAs while everyone else struggle to dodge , good concealment without any commander skills or upgrades, ...and now automatic ASW while everyone else had to take their time and observation to take out subs, this class is toxic for this game and you're coping by saying it's "not bad". They took this class out of both Clan Battle and Tournament because WG knew this class is absolutely bullshit, but still trying to justify their existence, and somehow getting players like you trying to defend this
@@Flomotion8000 Question yourself, since the CVs rework, how much they had gave to CVs? Free planes regenerate, super long damage control, free Catapult aircraft, automatic damage control, massive all around neft to every ships AAs except CVs, improve CVs concealment, ... automatic ASW. CVs is the most privilege and CVs mains got their ass carry by WG themself, don't cope on this class requirements or skills to play, it's absolutely bullshit from WG
As a CV player, i understand why they make it automated, becauce the CV is the only class in game that is almost never at his ship but i also understand that the other classes have to stop what they´re doing and focus on the sub so why doesn´t the CV has to do the same. Because now the CV can just continue to stike other ships because he cant do anything against the sub manuelly. What i would like to see is that the ASW Planes work like the tactical squads from Hybrids or super CVs, they are ready every minute or so just like the normal airstrike from BBs and also having 2 squads, they drop like the british dive bombers. They also can´t spot other ships just like the normal ASW planes but are controled manuel just like the normal plane squads from the CV. (sorry for any gramatical errors, english isn´t my first language)
I wish it was like battkestations midway where you outfit and fly dive bombers with depth charges. Also you're English is fantastic. Better than some natives. 👍
My CV ASW weapon so far has been just running them over... funniest thing... I agree, automatic ASW for CVs makes no sense, if anyone is adept at managing planes, that''s a CV player... no need to hold it's hand
I understand where you are coming from Mountbatten, but I think that an AI-controlled ASW is likely to underperform. If the carrier had its own power over the ASW it might prove to be more effective. I think an AI ASW gives the sub more of a chance to strike. So personally I think a consumable that is AI controlled in this instance is better than one that is controlled by the player entirely for balance purposes. On another note, I do hope that the range for this ASW consumable is rather low so the sub has a chance to hit the CV with conventional torps. Even as a person who plays CVs fairly regularly, it's always fun having to deal with challenges.
Oh btw. From now on its possible to go into a match as a cv and get up to two kills just by automated ASW. Sorry i dislike the class already but it gets worse over time xD
I 100% agree here. I feel like I’m good with the ASW planes, and I enjoy playing CVs. I actually was down to a 1v1 CV vs sub about a week ago and there wasn’t much I could do. I hit him when he surfaced, but couldn’t do much. I would love the Airstrike, and I want to fly it.
back then CV was a class where you must hooooooldddd and controooll all your armaments now CV is just playing world of warplanes at low tier XD man... such change
I think the best option is to open a new fighter plane just for ASW, attack only within a limited area (BECAUSE OF FUEL if you need an excuse to stay fair with the BB's ASW range), and put it in player control and not automatically. The carrier should CONTROL of the planes. I believe the rework was amazing but I still wish that the fighters that patrol and shoot down other aircraft should be controlled by the player like they used to be, not automatic, just like the carrier should have ASW planes, it's ridiculous a battleship and a cruiser have ASW aircraft and an aircraft carrier do not. I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF AUTOMATING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS. Opnion of a Main Cv player. Players hate aircraft carriers now and before the rework, but they are part of this naval battle scenario, just like we have radar, sonar, we have planes and anti-aircraft guns, players don't feel it. As they shoot down planes, they feel that it is possible to fight in some way, but when a carrier comes beyond the limit of its AA, it fires EVERYTHING in a single salvo and leaves unharmed, the feeling of powerlessness reigns. Even though it is a MAIN CV; I believe Nakhimov is unfair to his mechanics.
Subs and CV's, ruin game. Was sailing my BB near a friendly CV soon to be under attack from enemy DD. The CV was calling for assistance and telling me to block the DD torps. I laughed and said I was old school and continued to fire at a target 20 km away instead of the DD 7 km away. Lost track on my target and the DD had 'sadly' sunk the CV before I got my guns turned around, oh well.
I think that your mention of "lack of team play" is the key problem. My favorite ship is Oland (2000 ++ games in her), that makes me an odd ball yep I know but, I can fight CV's quite well and I very often "protect my CV" and yes I forfeit many points in not being selfish and (wasting time?) running across the map to protect my teammates (CVs included). If a submarine or DD gets loose near my CV (or any of my teammates) and I'm anywhere within "I can get there in time" distance, then I go "to get there". Teams that protect their CV win games, some teams over protect their CVs and lose: there's a correct balance of "team play". There is no "I" in "team" is a dominant factor within this game and that's what (seemingly) most players ignore or don't construe. Pan Euros can fight off or at least deter air attacks so Pan Euro players should position to help their team in using their strengths. Lightning is a great sub hunter so if playing Lightning you should be highly aware of where the submarines are and you should respond/position to counter them if possible. Yes transit + hunting time costs you potential farming points and you may not end up rating high on the leader board at games end but again, there is no "I" in "team". "I strive to win!" And you????? I'm not saying that the game itself doesn't need a hella lot of work and nor am I saying that all is well and balanced but "team play" or that is "lack of team play" constitutes the major problem. The game is what the game is and it's up to us (the players) to figure out the proper tactics to use as per the particular ship that you/we are playing and I see that as the predominant problem! I play radar games differently, I play CV games differently, I play Submarine games differently, I play differing maps differently, I change my playstyle if I'm (we're) outnumbered, etc... "Adapt to differing situations or die", the same thing goes for game changes: ""Adapt and Team-Up" as per the duties that your particular ship can best perform "Within Your Team"! Reiteration: Yes WoW is screwing up the game, they are clueless "non-players" that are making rules without understanding of the game! """Just like Politicians!""" lol Dutch_Tiger
man CVs having to use evasive maneuvers to avoid nearly undogable attacks from a different ship? man where have i heard that complain... i got some good advice from the forums a while back "just dodge"
Better way to fix CV's issues. 1. At the beginning of a match, CVs can't launch planes until 3 enemy ships have been spotted. This gives time for surface ships to deploy, DD's to do their job and then airstrikes are called in. 2. Out of the three planes the CV players get, one of the planes is a spotter/ASW plane. The spotter plane has increased ability to spot, takes less AA DM, but the only ordinance it can drop is ASW. This means a loss of one type of plane. I do not think that hurts CV's that much as there is usually one type of plane you don't use that much anyways. This could help the balance.
It always bothered me that of all classes the one that actually has aircraft has no depth charge dropping planes. I mean if a BB can call them in, why can't anyone else. So its an improvement at least. All classes in the game should have reasonable means of hurting any other. The one thing I don't like about this change would be the automatic part. There is too much going on automatically already and it should depend on a player's skill and intention what is happening or not happening and how.
@Tim van der Velden What's weird about that? Two ships that can't hurt each other make no sense. Or at least one can't hurt the other. Subs can hurt CVs. And if you put aside your hate for CVs you will have to admit, it's weird how it is now. And I guess you meant to say other ships can't hurt CVs. But that's obviously not the case. Many BBs can hurt the CV a lot from very far away as long as it is spotted. But that is no different from any other class. Need to see it to shoot it.
@Tim van der Velden CVs were only nerfed after the rework before the rework 1 CV could 1 vs 15 and casualy 100 to 0 every ship in ONE attack run. now they are getting a defensiv tool to have counterplay against subs. Sure i would like it to be at my disposal and not automated.
@Tim van der Velden I agree with you that DDs suffer from being spotted by CVs. But that's a tough thing to balance. It shouldnt be god-like, but still planes spotting ships in general makes sense. And WG did listen to complaints by DD players for that exact thing. Rocket planes were nerfed into the ground. Currently spotting a DD is all a CV can reliably do. Damaging it was easy with rockets, now is close to impossible if the DD pays any attention. Some dive bombers are still good at hitting DDs, but that's it. And then there are those DDs with insane AA. Doesnt make any sense that Halland has better AA than Montana imo, but ohwell ... guess from a game-play balance perspective it kinda makes sense.
I don't want automated consumables, but just that you can switch cv and squadron at any time without calling them back (as the captain usually is always present on the ship. Or use this so CV players are forced to abandon strikes or run risk of getting high damage applied to their ship.
I 100% agree with you that they babysit the CVs too much. I don't flat out hate CVs but I do wish my AA and defensive AA consumable actually did a bit more (maybe actually stop a strike for once) but I miss the old spirit of the RTS CVs where I had to use my fighters and counter the enemy CVs planes while also making strikes. They need to change the fighter mechanic so its more active (maybe let me launch fighters or something that I can control and strafe their planes) as well as a dedicated squadron to deal with subs.
I feel like they did that so that CV plays do not USE Depth charge Planes to Scout Enemies, BASICALLY ! saving their ATTACK planes and giving a massive advantage overall, You have to think it in a different perpective mate, A CV without PLANES is a FLOATING FLANK, And I just Imagine CV players USING Depth charge planes as a SCOUT and REVEALING Planes for your team then Use the Sight advantage to Focus ships with their attack planes, therefore ending up losing less planes, so basically that will be a MASSIVE buff for overall plane health pools.
The only bis disadvantage of a cv is that its very hard tunnel visioned and now people argue that this is the reason why the cv get an automated feature???
It makes sense, all WG decisions have been based on gameplay time, CVs won't get controlled fighters because then they could actually fight other CVs, so if the other player is less skilled they'd get shut out and stop playing CVs. So naturally they won't get an ability that would allow them to hunt subs. We wouldn't want sub players to have an "adverse" game experience like dealing with CV attacks.
note that if your cv gets a kill on a sub from the auto airstrike, the destroyed ribbon will appear but never count towards missions or your kill record. oh and the reason the airstrike was needed is because sub could just hang off the cv at a 1km range and torps away until dead. this was utterly stupid and needed to be dealt with - I also agree that cv would be better with maybe a tactical consumable anti sub flight that runs like the tacticals on superships
i can understand why they are making it automated, cause unlike other ships as a cv player you are nearly all the time controling planes and not your ship so interruppting your flight and do it from your ship is hard. I would prefer if you can call the depth charge from your actual squadron (either in a form of seperat squadron or like a consumabel with point and klick) and not automated. As a CV main i prefer the aktiv hunting over the passiv system cause if i want to assist my team in hunting a sub or defending myself against it.
@@EvoraGT430 literally i play both cvs and surface ships and the amount of time i need to plan my strikes against submarines is extremely small lmfao braindead flambass fan
@@EvoraGT430 i know that but that was not what i meant with my words. CV players have to recal planes so in the worst case an entire attack run is lost 1-2 minutes downtime and complete new paths arfe needed to attack and then he must spot and do all actions a normal surface ship must do but after launching the air strike a normal ship can go right back into action and fight while a cv must relaunch planes and worst case it is its main dmg source which needs to return before beeing send out again. Worst case you are bound to your ship without the ability to dmg any other ship exept the sub while surface ships can still fight between launching the airstrikes or dropping the depth charges.
AS CV main i would have no problem control dmg party, or subplanes manually. BUT we have to get first some button to switch betweern contrl planes and ship... You can´t compare time lost when you switch gun/charges with surface ship with CV when you have to call of your planes.
As both a CV player as Sub player, this is dumb... Just give one of the plane squads (or create on just for that) a secondary hability to drop low damage depth charges.
I find it amusing when the sub goes after the CV and usually they end up failing miserably. Too reliant on homing torpedoes that don't end up homing cuz of the carriers ten year DCP. I also laugh when the CV starts complaining about nobody helping them and being utterly helpless. Welcome to World of Surface Ships.
it is to offset the fact that the surface airstrike is airborn and you cannot control the ship or another squadron simultaneously. From that perspective, it makes sense ... however, WoWs should allow any squadron or ship to be used at any time (just shift back and forth while the ramainder stays on auto pilot), OR let the bombers and strafing take care of subs, which, by the way, I was under the impression was the exact reason for the strafing component in the attack aircraft in the first place?
I know this post is a little old news now, but this actually makes perfect sense. Unlike every other class, CVs spend a period of time not actually at, and in control, of their ship while they are flying their planes. If a submarine comes into range of a CV while he is out making a strike, he might not even notice. Subs are quite the credible threat to CVs and with their different gameplay the automated depth charge planes make perfect sense, just as do automated fighters and damage control. Admittedly, the length of the automated damage control is a bit excessive. Also, having played both a sub and a CV, the automated planes can be deadly, unless you know what you are doing as the sub commander.
so your saying CVs wouldn't be able to counter subs? huh why does that sound familiar? oh right because nothing can counter CVs and while every other class has to just accept death CV players once again get everything handed to them.
@@Archmagos_Faber You can certainly counter CVs. I have had entire flights shot down before I can get a strike off. Just group up for mutual AA defense. I had a San Diego savage a pair of my flights just the other day, and I didn't go near that area again until my team had killed the San Diego. It is the ships that go alone that are the easier pickings when you are playing a CV. See a group of ships when playing a CV, you stay away unless there is nothing left, then you start picking away at the extremities.
unfortunately you can't always stay near team mates, DDs can't spot effectively if they are attached to a CC and a CC can't support DDs if they are hiding with BBs, so effectively there is either no true counter for most ships or extremely passive and boring gameplay. @@WVGato
I would like having a small flight of maybe 2 or 4 ASW planes equipped with depth charges with a similar aiming reticle as the dive bombers. CVs historically carried some degree of ASW armaments, usually in the form of ASW planes.
Have they thought about making it so you can leave your planes and return to your ship temporarily? Then you could deal with the sub, while your planes stay flying around. Then you can return to your planes? Would that be an okiedokie way to do it?
I have a suggestion that might solve this problem if they're implementing an automatic depth charge or anti subsystem maybe that shouldn't make it automatically launch but we should get a ping on the CVS or a radar we have to activate and if it finds a sub at launches one of the anti-sub planes at it basically use their idea but at a manual used to it
How would anyone be surprised at this? Have to protect one of the “protected” classes. The only surface class that can’t detonate even though they were full of highly flammable AVIATION fuel. Their fires last forever right, since the larger the ship, the longer fire duration right? Nope, fires get put out almost immediately it seems. The near guarantee of a strike getting off by planes is awesome when the surface ships can have some awesome rng where their shells fly off the map or nowhere near where the aim was, inexplicably fall short, etc. Spotting, nothing else needs to be said there. Hey, what’s not to like by surface ship players, and we should all be happy that cvs get another advantageous perk.
I've been playing more CVs recently and I want to see CVs be able to control their DCP and fighters with their U and I keys it would be a lot more fun and engaging to be able to micro manage more things on your ship. Could also lengthen CV burn times (and reduce the DPS of fires) and bring back the mechanic where CVs can't launch planes when on fire so they have to manage their DCP properly.
i personaly think its about time since cv's were the most common ship to kill subs but i agree that it shuldnt be automated carrier players have to drop what there doing anyway to try and dogde torps and find the sub with are normal planes anyway
Sea Lord, I play Submarines a lot (over 700 games in U-2501 alone) killing a cv is childsplay for any sub for one reason: I HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR DCP! At max range I ping them (they usually don`t move ...) then I normal torpedo them with the long range torps. If the cv starts moving those miss,if not: free damage. When I have reloaded I am within 8km usually and their DCP is in cooldown since I activated it (I do tell my team the enemie's CV's DCP is down don`t want to hog all that potential fire farm). With or without homing hitting them is simple and I can flood them for a pretty decent amount of time. Cv's need help.... from me... :D (automatic is bullshit people love to learn and become GOOD at something, automatic is boring and bland). I agree with Dutch ships and hybrids needing some kind of depth charge device.
If they want to keep it a consumable why not make it a selection in the port between fighters and ASW like how cruisers either take Hydro or AA support but it's a selection per squadron.
Hainvg it auto would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that you can press F to recall the current flight. If you couldn't do that and had to use the current planes first before you go back to the cv then ok but since you can it doesn't make sense.
it's both good and bad. It means a CV player can't use manual drop to predict the movement, so the sub can dodge the drops if they understand the AI But it also means the CV can just do random maneuvers and ignore the sub, since it auto targets. Can't wait for a super-CV class that launches 10 automatic planes with 5 torpedoes each at enemies within 15km.
I feel like they could fix subs so easily if they just made it so that every subsequent ping the submarine makes causes the sonar markers to become more accurate, until they stop pinging for a certain amount of time, giving time for the surface ships to evade before another ping comes their way, and to stop submarines from infinitely ping spamming you with impunity.
There will be more cv players on eu with the transfer from cis , would love a button for switching between carrier and plane steering also auto asw is stupid
heck they could just give CV a plane squardon like they use to attaque but only atc as ASW ( maybe to powerfull if they can visit the map? ) also i saw asw strike beeing deleted by1 or 2 bb near they sub too.
Graff zeppelin that has cruiser guns hah Although a better option would be a point to click while fying a squadron like a fighter consumable but unlimited obviously
Very helpfull, new lpayer here with a question or 2. Do you have a video on air to air combat or tips? What would the order of priority for air strikes? Thanks again love your channel!
It isn't that CVs can't be bothered to manually operate ASW planes. Wargaming's design philosophy for CVs is they don't want them controlling the hull and the planes at the same time. That's why the CV dam con works automatically. They're just doubling down on that design concept. CV players never wanted that. Wargaming imposed it because they see it as a handicap. I agree though, what's going to happen is the automatic ASW will be inaccurate or hyper accurate.
This is why battlestations midway was better. Other than fact it was overall more fun than wows you could change loadout on dive bombers to depth charges. Could've at least had a special squadron manual control with depth charges.
the problem with your thought of "bothering a cv player" is that it takes time to fly from point at to point b, you can't just send aircrafts and head back to ship to do counter measures, the aircraft will automatically return and your stuck at doing nothing but counter the sub. sure WG could give automatic flying between a and b, but that will never happen.
WeeGee is missing a HUGE opportunity by not giving CV players access to player-controlled ASW aircraft which, by the way, existed in real life and played a pivotal role in both theaters of operation in WW2. Highly disappointed.
Completely agree that CVs should be able to handle their own ASW planes like everyone else - as well as Dutch needing it to be balanced. The other day I was in a match where my ASW planes hit the sub 17 times followed by a team member in a DD hitting 6 so 23 overall hits in a tier 8 match - sub was still alive. Forgive me but that is NOT balanced...
So when everyone else complains about undersea cancer.... nothing happens. When sky cancer players complain about undersea cancer, oh poor baby, have auto defense
My problem with CVs is the constant spamming of fighters to keep you lit forever. You can get spotted and killed within the first minute of the game while still moving from the spawn point. Fighters should get a bigger cooldown, and not be usable immediately.
yeah, Nakhimov is supposed to have full squadron strikes to change the types of planes (because you SHOULD run out of them) but actually you can be able to spam just fighters dealing 25K per strike and being so fast that AA can't even react (like you can go 2 fighter strikes, one skip bomber and you have fighters again XD). Not to mention that every squad of Nakhimov is broken, the fighters are just the most
Juts give me way to switch Ship/Airplanes and I will do it manually. I miss so much planekills because triggering AA sector requires me to be at the ship controls, like 1 of 10 cases or less
Interaction between CV, Sub and ship is so terrible at the moment. CV players need to be given an option to set up their Captain build, All Attack (no fighter escort) Most damage / High risk / low spotting. Balanced attack (swap out 2 attack planes for 2 fighter escorts) Medium Damage / Medium risk / medium spotting. protected attack (swap out 4-5 attack planes for 4-5 fighter escorts) Low Damage / Low risk / high spotting. Attack planes base spotting gets nerfed, Fighter escorts buff spotting and have increased survivability. CV's get short range depth charged airstrikes. Surface ships get Manuel fighter control captain perk (works like Manuel secondaries) If you have fighters equipped as a consumable, you can click on the incoming squadron and send your fighters to direct intercept >10km, if CV has Escorts they will try to engage interceptors. Subs need a surface maneuver consumable, diesel and battery combines and buffs rudder and speed on surface to escape. while on the surface depth charges won't effect them, only main guns and secondaries. This gives a Sub player a choice, hide or run depending on the situation. I wish they would add dynamic environments, tidal reefs and shallows (allows shallow draft ships access to short cuts) rain squalls, (low clouds that work like thunderstorms cross the map) which block vision from the air given surface ships the occasion hiding spots from CV's. There just a couple of thoughts to make the class interaction tighter.
in reality CV should be played in coop, one that fly the squardon and attaque and one that drive the ship, and maybe some gameplay around replenish plane etc
It's funny how they jump on this, but not for the ships that don't have any asw. With that I've dev stuck a sub with an airstrike, 10 bombs hit it! I don't know why they don't just have it that the cv can change the payload of bombers or torp planes to drop depth charges on subs. CV's run everyone else's game might as well ruin the subs day as well.
I wonder if this has something to do with scripting. Perhaps the cv script for planes has unlimited range and therefore the depth charge planes would have unlimited range. There is probably some wonkey script line that has a dependency for range they cant change or something.
Making the asw automated doesn't fix the issue. All it takes is a skilled sub player to dodge bot controlled ordinance. Weegee should've made it manual
wargamming's approach to the CV strike on subs make sense as a compromise, CV players want airstrikes as an air group that can kill subs everywhere on the map, subs want cv's to have no ability to damage them, just having a defensive strike capability is a fair compromise, as it is not an airgroup automating it is reasonable... lets be frank it probably will not be that accurate, so lets not stress. By automating it cv players will have no / much less ability to synchronise the attacks / spotting of their airgroups with the ASW airstrike which is fairer for the sub.
as far as we know, it will track the sub exactly from what they've said right? off memory at least. If so then regular ships should get it too as well as manual ones
So you keep saying their dcon lasts for minutes .. it doesn’t. It’s a 60 second base .. that’s a minute. I’d rather they had put in a swap for dive bombers to change the load out of your next launched squad to depth charge dive bombers. Carriers in ww2 were actively using asw thru their air power btw.
As a cv player I understand why it is auto as we arnt with the hull much at all. Every cv player wants anti sub planes. Make it a 4th type of plane. Or better yet get rid of the dam sub!
AA is RNG I like what you said let us control the drops most good cv players us DC to Hump the sub when they come up they get ramed killed letting us aim makes us deadly with depth charges making it auto helps the sub !
ugh I miss old cvs for this reason...sure it was rts looking yet it required more strategy and situational awareness. capital ships arne't meant to be easy to understand, they require to challenge your situational awareness or be punished for it if this game held to this standard. when playing against a cv as ss, I pray the cv doesn't find me and keep me submerged, I try my best to not ping and use only conventional or non pinged torps. cv aircraft ngl is my worst enemy cause spotting. unless I get up close and shotgun with conventional torps or do it from long range conventional torps(not that different from torp dd ngl). not pinging has increased my survivability at the cost of torp hit rate which isn't a bad trade.
![[UA] NAVI проти G2 Esports | Blast Premier Fall Final](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QWlIm4FGESQ/mqdefault.jpg)
A CV that cant sink a Sub and a Sub that cant sink a CV. Now THATS what i call historical gameplay xD
Unless you recall Archerfish that sunk Shinano ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Not true, and this game was never supposed to be realistic.
Guess they’re finally going after the fact I only have been using submarines to harass and snipe CV’s.
The only valuable use and tactics for subs in the game
Busted.
Brother, as a fellow player who uses this tactic thank you for your service
Will try this tactic when i play again, cannot wait to ruin a CV's day
As a BB main, I salute you
I had this awkward battle yesterday in my ark royal
A sub Was hunting me around the whole map i couldnt do anything but Spot him
And he couldnt do anything to me because he couldnt catch up when he was diving 😅
It was awkward but fun
I mean i wouldnt mind having a deapthcharge squadron that i can fly around with or make it manually
need slow benny hill theme?
@@kaollachan as long as it’s loud and everyone can hear it 😂
or same as fighter consubmable, just smaller patrol area to ASW planes
All these years later and CV's are still an issue. We knew this back in Beta.
The whole CV vs sub thing doesn't really bother me to begin with. If a DD/sub or heck even the other CV goes after me when I play CV I feel it's actually beneficial for my team. They contribute nothing to their team while you can strike where your team's fighting and push the engagement in their favor. Maybe they could add something like a tactical squadron with ASW but even then idk that it's necessary. The average sub has very little battle impact so adding additional pressure from anywhere in the map isn't gonna help. Of course there's the odd sub player that can be a nightmare but those are rare.
Yup exactly lol, keep moving while their CV does no DMG and i do 200k in my nakhimov lol
Shooting down 7 or more aircraft in a game is too much fun, it should be illegal. heh.
I think it is because dropping whatever you are doing for a CV means leaving your squadron which takes over a minute to return to the CV. It gets worse when much of that squadron has been damaged by AA. Automating the ASW planes was a necessary move on Wargaming's part since CVs can't control their carrier while flying planes, meaning that the game needs to do it for them.
Finally a rational post!
CV's don't have much of a way to deal with submarines. Except an automatic DCP that lasts for 1 whole minute.
Meanwhile, Dutch cruisers have literally no means of dealing with subs.
They have one thing against them
Look evil at them and hope you get ignored 😅
ecept a dcp and guns to fight subs when they are on the surface while CVs have only secondaries and maybe he bomber. BUT YES all ships should have anti sub weapons
@@Mer4ydin i don't think WG will do this it's like to them its asking give all ships radar to counter DDs ofc they don't do that iv seen a pattern in which most ships that don't have sonar have ASW but the ones that do don't get ASW since they can spot subs
@@doomguy.23frommars60 teh ships i have seen without any for of anti sub weapon are the netherland cruiser line, hybrid ships and CVs. So even ships with sonar have an ASW your radar comparison is lacking one Point I was talking about a way to fight subs not counter or spot them.
@@doomguy.23frommars60 do DDs have any way to attack you while you can do nothing about it? DDs don't have homing torpedoes, in order to both spot and damage you they need to become visible themselves. Meanwhile subs can sonar ping, torp and spot you, and still remain undetected. Steffen is right, every ship needs to be able to damage any other ship, otherwise there is no counterplay. Dutch cruisers having no depth charges is shit design.
As a quality of life improvement for CVs, I'd have preferred the addition of fighter consumable support for low tier carriers. God knows low tier surface ships need cover support since they have virtually no AA, and yet CVs have no ability to help.
Now, with regards to ASW for CVs, I'm ok with this as long a it provides some sort of counter play whereas there isn't any right now. I just don't think it needs to be automated, since carriers already get auto DCP and other hand held features.
Not that they would anyway.
Make aa and secondary in our control. We can switch back and forth.
If u get disconnected from the game then a low to mid level bot take your ship over.
Next patch: CVs have automated evasive maneuvers and automated strike squadrons.
Patch after: CVs can now leave the match without penalties and still get rewards
I agree with this would also love to control the depth charge planes
This also protects subs, because good CV players with actual asw would make subs non existent
When two broken gameplay features meet 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
[Duel of the Fates plays loudy in background|
Seriously, just give CVs the option of switching one of their squadrons for depth charge squadrons! Manually control these planes to effectively and accurately hunt subs!
But no, even MORE handholding for THE most protected ship type in the game. Meanwhile, surface ships like battleships and cruisers are still struggling to locate the damn subs in the heat of battle, let alone use their limited range airstrikes to even try to engage them...if there's any ships that should be getting auto DC airstrike, it's the warships that are DIRECTLY IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE, NOT CVs!!
The CV use to carry ASW specific fixed wing aircraft and these days ASW helicopters. Fixed wing relied on radar and magnetic anomaly detection (MAD), or sonar buoys that were both passive and active and would be dropped in a pattern, helicopters used dipping active sonars.
What wargaming should really do is replace the rocket squadrons with ASW squadrons, the carrier player controls them and can press a key to set a sonobuoy line that will detect subs and ships at all depths when they cross it, a MAD that detects subs at periscope depth, and a depth charge attack. However, a sonobuoy line/MAD cannot be used at the same time as dropping depth charges, meaning that if the carrier player wants to attack submarines, they have to lose vision on them and hope they hit. (Maybe add a cooldown between depth charging a sub and the sonobuoy working again so the carrier can’t just toggle between the 2). Maybe British and US high-tier CVs can get planes with dipping sonar that detects them at all depths but the aircraft are really slow while using them, and German, Japanese, and Soviet CVs can have more sonobuoys drop out when using the sonobuoy line to simulate them not having dipping sonar during WW2. (Or give Nakhimov helicopters that do everything above but are slow and fragile because all I want is to be able to pilot a squadron of Ka-29s in a WW2 game)
Removes the annoyingness of the rocket aircraft and replaces them with a squadron so the CV focuses on detecting the submarine while the team can sink the sub once it’s detected.
@@AUsernameWeShallMarchToKiev I would add a forth dedicated squadron for asw make it a slow moving heavily armored flying boat or patrol aircraft kind of like the hornets b25s and has the mad system it has to drop, then the player has to cycle weapons systems for the depth charges, one thing that would be interesting for US and UK is you could opt for an attack squadron with a reduced rocket load but have 2 mini depth charges that again you cycle through to use. Historically speaking allied navies did use this tactic of loading up fireflies, avengers or even f4fs with the mixed rocket depth charge loadout in conjunction with patrol aircraft to hunt enemy subs. They would have one or 2 aircraft flying low scanning the surface for a periscope or silhouette have the squadron drop depth charges to force the sub to the surface then finish it off with rockets. The Russians and super carriers like you said could get asw helicopters/gyrocopter with dipping sonar but have to do it 3 times around a sub and then could drop a short range asw torp but the squadron would be extremely fragile and wouldn't used in a offensive capacity strictly defensive.
can't have that for WW2 era, but bombs work, straffing works, and torpedo bomber bays could be loaded with depth charges
@@billschara6856 I mean ww2 era is subjective when half the russian line that existed is built post war because russias metallurgy tech couldn't let them mass produce steel plate thicker than 5in and let's not forget a good chunk of the European dd line was built late to post war, and united states is a post war refit of midway, along with Forrest sherman that was built post war and Austin if it would have been built.
@@strykerk992 Yeah the thing is, with RTS CVs these mechanics would be really easy to implement, just a new squadron type that searches for submarines and one that drops depth charges (just like real life), but since the CV rework you can't operate several squadrons at once so it throws the entire "historically accurate aerial ASW" thing out the window as it has to be with 1 squadron only.
I have had so much fun with submarine poppinng up an point blanking me without warning or any way to reply that i forgot CV's were in the game @.@
Reflects real world capability. USNI News has a very long article on it. I still maintain that subs should not be part of a surface engagement. Nimitz Grey Papers have numerous battle if Midway dispatches reminding US Commabders that there are friendly subs in the area and not to attack them.
Would have preferred a sub spotter automation with a "tactical" depth charge squad.
Yea cause more spotting is what cvs need.
I guess CVs mains complaining and WeeGee instantly gave them help again
In fact its usually people complaining _about_ CVs, not CVs complaining.
@@Flomotion8000 more like 3 CVs mains complaining and WG will immediately listen and the players complaining about CVs and Subs, they won't, it's how it's, this's not the first time
@@jabaited You're just biased, as many are toward CVs. Won't say CVs are perfect the way they are. But there is a disproportionate amount of complaining about CVs compared to how bad they actually are. And the complains _about_ CVs led to one of the most significant gameplay changes ever since WoWS is out of beta. And again you might like or dislike the current state of CVs, what WG achieved at least is that they significantly decreased the impact a CV has on a match. Before the rework a good CV player easily dominated the entire match if the other CV wasn't as good. Now a CV can still do a lot, but just one thing at a time. Harass one ship, or keep a DD spotted or whatever. And the haters will still say they are OP and broken, but that's nothing but biased BS. A BB can delete a cruiser with one salvo, and without detonation RNG that is. Try that in a CV.
@@Flomotion8000 Bias of what? CVs are absolutely unfair, that's why only 1 or 2 per games, BBs can detonate cruisers , so what, that doesn't mean a class has no restrictions on how long they can attack, how far they can attack, long damage control, take no risk except losing planes which can be regenerate, can spot every others class without risking themself, has the best AAs while everyone else struggle to dodge , good concealment without any commander skills or upgrades, ...and now automatic ASW while everyone else had to take their time and observation to take out subs, this class is toxic for this game and you're coping by saying it's "not bad". They took this class out of both Clan Battle and Tournament because WG knew this class is absolutely bullshit, but still trying to justify their existence, and somehow getting players like you trying to defend this
@@Flomotion8000 Question yourself, since the CVs rework, how much they had gave to CVs? Free planes regenerate, super long damage control, free Catapult aircraft, automatic damage control, massive all around neft to every ships AAs except CVs, improve CVs concealment, ... automatic ASW. CVs is the most privilege and CVs mains got their ass carry by WG themself, don't cope on this class requirements or skills to play, it's absolutely bullshit from WG
As a CV player, i understand why they make it automated, becauce the CV is the only class in game that is almost never at his ship but i also understand that the other classes have to stop what they´re doing and focus on the sub so why doesn´t the CV has to do the same. Because now the CV can just continue to stike other ships because he cant do anything against the sub manuelly. What i would like to see is that the ASW Planes work like the tactical squads from Hybrids or super CVs, they are ready every minute or so just like the normal airstrike from BBs and also having 2 squads, they drop like the british dive bombers. They also can´t spot other ships just like the normal ASW planes but are controled manuel just like the normal plane squads from the CV. (sorry for any gramatical errors, english isn´t my first language)
Thats what i meant in my comment
And it wouldnt make any difference for me in my playstyle
I wish it was like battkestations midway where you outfit and fly dive bombers with depth charges.
Also you're English is fantastic. Better than some natives. 👍
My CV ASW weapon so far has been just running them over... funniest thing... I agree, automatic ASW for CVs makes no sense, if anyone is adept at managing planes, that''s a CV player... no need to hold it's hand
I understand where you are coming from Mountbatten, but I think that an AI-controlled ASW is likely to underperform. If the carrier had its own power over the ASW it might prove to be more effective. I think an AI ASW gives the sub more of a chance to strike. So personally I think a consumable that is AI controlled in this instance is better than one that is controlled by the player entirely for balance purposes. On another note, I do hope that the range for this ASW consumable is rather low so the sub has a chance to hit the CV with conventional torps. Even as a person who plays CVs fairly regularly, it's always fun having to deal with challenges.
The fact that it's automated might make it easier to dodge for the sub, similar how the cv dodges flak which is automated.
Yes the CV's have become the "protected" class in the game. They don't need any more help!
Oh btw. From now on its possible to go into a match as a cv and get up to two kills just by automated ASW.
Sorry i dislike the class already but it gets worse over time xD
They should rename this game into World of Warplanes and Submarines and make a new game called World of Warships
Yes please!
I 100% agree here. I feel like I’m good with the ASW planes, and I enjoy playing CVs. I actually was down to a 1v1 CV vs sub about a week ago and there wasn’t much I could do. I hit him when he surfaced, but couldn’t do much. I would love the Airstrike, and I want to fly it.
back then CV was a class where you must hooooooldddd and controooll all your armaments
now CV is just playing world of warplanes at low tier XD
man... such change
I think the best option is to open a new fighter plane just for ASW, attack only within a limited area (BECAUSE OF FUEL if you need an excuse to stay fair with the BB's ASW range), and put it in player control and not automatically. The carrier should CONTROL of the planes. I believe the rework was amazing but I still wish that the fighters that patrol and shoot down other aircraft should be controlled by the player like they used to be, not automatic, just like the carrier should have ASW planes, it's ridiculous a battleship and a cruiser have ASW aircraft and an aircraft carrier do not. I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF AUTOMATING AIRCRAFT CARRIERS. Opnion of a Main Cv player.
Players hate aircraft carriers now and before the rework, but they are part of this naval battle scenario, just like we have radar, sonar, we have planes and anti-aircraft guns, players don't feel it. As they shoot down planes, they feel that it is possible to fight in some way, but when a carrier comes beyond the limit of its AA, it fires EVERYTHING in a single salvo and leaves unharmed, the feeling of powerlessness reigns.
Even though it is a MAIN CV; I believe Nakhimov is unfair to his mechanics.
yup make them have to manually bomb the subs just like with the rockets and bomb/skip bombs
Subs and CVs are just a pain in the ass to deal with
could be used as a alternate bomber load out. like changing from HE to AP
A cancer class vs a different cancer class
Subs and CV's, ruin game. Was sailing my BB near a friendly CV soon to be under attack from enemy DD. The CV was calling for assistance and telling me to block the DD torps. I laughed and said I was old school and continued to fire at a target 20 km away instead of the DD 7 km away. Lost track on my target and the DD had 'sadly' sunk the CV before I got my guns turned around, oh well.
The hero we deserve
I think that your mention of "lack of team play" is the key problem. My favorite ship is Oland (2000 ++ games in her), that makes me an odd ball yep I know but, I can fight CV's quite well and I very often "protect my CV" and yes I forfeit many points in not being selfish and (wasting time?) running across the map to protect my teammates (CVs included). If a submarine or DD gets loose near my CV (or any of my teammates) and I'm anywhere within "I can get there in time" distance, then I go "to get there". Teams that protect their CV win games, some teams over protect their CVs and lose: there's a correct balance of "team play". There is no "I" in "team" is a dominant factor within this game and that's what (seemingly) most players ignore or don't construe.
Pan Euros can fight off or at least deter air attacks so Pan Euro players should position to help their team in using their strengths. Lightning is a great sub hunter so if playing Lightning you should be highly aware of where the submarines are and you should respond/position to counter them if possible. Yes transit + hunting time costs you potential farming points and you may not end up rating high on the leader board at games end but again, there is no "I" in "team". "I strive to win!" And you?????
I'm not saying that the game itself doesn't need a hella lot of work and nor am I saying that all is well and balanced but "team play" or that is "lack of team play" constitutes the major problem. The game is what the game is and it's up to us (the players) to figure out the proper tactics to use as per the particular ship that you/we are playing and I see that as the predominant problem!
I play radar games differently, I play CV games differently, I play Submarine games differently, I play differing maps differently, I change my playstyle if I'm (we're) outnumbered, etc...
"Adapt to differing situations or die", the same thing goes for game changes: ""Adapt and Team-Up" as per the duties that your particular ship can best perform "Within Your Team"!
Reiteration: Yes WoW is screwing up the game, they are clueless "non-players" that are making rules without understanding of the game! """Just like Politicians!""" lol
Dutch_Tiger
man CVs having to use evasive maneuvers to avoid nearly undogable attacks from a different ship? man where have i heard that complain...
i got some good advice from the forums a while back "just dodge"
Better way to fix CV's issues. 1. At the beginning of a match, CVs can't launch planes until 3 enemy ships have been spotted. This gives time for surface ships to deploy, DD's to do their job and then airstrikes are called in. 2. Out of the three planes the CV players get, one of the planes is a spotter/ASW plane. The spotter plane has increased ability to spot, takes less AA DM, but the only ordinance it can drop is ASW. This means a loss of one type of plane. I do not think that hurts CV's that much as there is usually one type of plane you don't use that much anyways. This could help the balance.
It always bothered me that of all classes the one that actually has aircraft has no depth charge dropping planes. I mean if a BB can call them in, why can't anyone else. So its an improvement at least. All classes in the game should have reasonable means of hurting any other. The one thing I don't like about this change would be the automatic part. There is too much going on automatically already and it should depend on a player's skill and intention what is happening or not happening and how.
@Tim van der Velden What's weird about that? Two ships that can't hurt each other make no sense. Or at least one can't hurt the other. Subs can hurt CVs. And if you put aside your hate for CVs you will have to admit, it's weird how it is now.
And I guess you meant to say other ships can't hurt CVs. But that's obviously not the case. Many BBs can hurt the CV a lot from very far away as long as it is spotted. But that is no different from any other class. Need to see it to shoot it.
@Tim van der Velden CVs were only nerfed after the rework before the rework 1 CV could 1 vs 15 and casualy 100 to 0 every ship in ONE attack run. now they are getting a defensiv tool to have counterplay against subs. Sure i would like it to be at my disposal and not automated.
@Tim van der Velden I agree with you that DDs suffer from being spotted by CVs. But that's a tough thing to balance. It shouldnt be god-like, but still planes spotting ships in general makes sense. And WG did listen to complaints by DD players for that exact thing. Rocket planes were nerfed into the ground. Currently spotting a DD is all a CV can reliably do. Damaging it was easy with rockets, now is close to impossible if the DD pays any attention. Some dive bombers are still good at hitting DDs, but that's it.
And then there are those DDs with insane AA. Doesnt make any sense that Halland has better AA than Montana imo, but ohwell ... guess from a game-play balance perspective it kinda makes sense.
They should let the CV players control the depth charge planes IMO
I would propose an ASW tac squad for CVs. That way we can control the planes like, y'know, planes from a CV. No handholding, no stupid gimmicks.
I don't want automated consumables, but just that you can switch cv and squadron at any time without calling them back (as the captain usually is always present on the ship. Or use this so CV players are forced to abandon strikes or run risk of getting high damage applied to their ship.
I 100% agree with you that they babysit the CVs too much. I don't flat out hate CVs but I do wish my AA and defensive AA consumable actually did a bit more (maybe actually stop a strike for once) but I miss the old spirit of the RTS CVs where I had to use my fighters and counter the enemy CVs planes while also making strikes. They need to change the fighter mechanic so its more active (maybe let me launch fighters or something that I can control and strafe their planes) as well as a dedicated squadron to deal with subs.
I feel like they did that so that CV plays do not USE Depth charge Planes to Scout Enemies, BASICALLY ! saving their ATTACK planes and giving a massive advantage overall,
You have to think it in a different perpective mate, A CV without PLANES is a FLOATING FLANK,
And I just Imagine CV players USING Depth charge planes as a SCOUT and REVEALING Planes for your team then Use the Sight advantage to Focus ships with their attack planes, therefore ending up losing less planes,
so basically that will be a MASSIVE buff for overall plane health pools.
The only bis disadvantage of a cv is that its very hard tunnel visioned and now people argue that this is the reason why the cv get an automated feature???
Only CV simps argue that.
Finally man I thought they will never add it
It makes sense, all WG decisions have been based on gameplay time, CVs won't get controlled fighters because then they could actually fight other CVs, so if the other player is less skilled they'd get shut out and stop playing CVs. So naturally they won't get an ability that would allow them to hunt subs. We wouldn't want sub players to have an "adverse" game experience like dealing with CV attacks.
note that if your cv gets a kill on a sub from the auto airstrike, the destroyed ribbon will appear but never count towards missions or your kill record. oh and the reason the airstrike was needed is because sub could just hang off the cv at a 1km range and torps away until dead. this was utterly stupid and needed to be dealt with - I also agree that cv would be better with maybe a tactical consumable anti sub flight that runs like the tacticals on superships
i can understand why they are making it automated, cause unlike other ships as a cv player you are nearly all the time controling planes and not your ship so interruppting your flight and do it from your ship is hard. I would prefer if you can call the depth charge from your actual squadron (either in a form of seperat squadron or like a consumabel with point and klick) and not automated.
As a CV main i prefer the aktiv hunting over the passiv system cause if i want to assist my team in hunting a sub or defending myself against it.
Surface ships have to stop doing what they're doing if they're attacked by a submarine, too. Screw CVs.
@@EvoraGT430 literally i play both cvs and surface ships and the amount of time i need to plan my strikes against submarines is extremely small lmfao braindead flambass fan
@@EvoraGT430 i know that but that was not what i meant with my words. CV players have to recal planes so in the worst case an entire attack run is lost 1-2 minutes downtime and complete new paths arfe needed to attack and then he must spot and do all actions a normal surface ship must do but after launching the air strike a normal ship can go right back into action and fight while a cv must relaunch planes and worst case it is its main dmg source which needs to return before beeing send out again.
Worst case you are bound to your ship without the ability to dmg any other ship exept the sub while surface ships can still fight between launching the airstrikes or dropping the depth charges.
AS CV main i would have no problem control dmg party, or subplanes manually. BUT we have to get first some button to switch betweern contrl planes and ship... You can´t compare time lost when you switch gun/charges with surface ship with CV when you have to call of your planes.
As both a CV player as Sub player, this is dumb... Just give one of the plane squads (or create on just for that) a secondary hability to drop low damage depth charges.
I find it amusing when the sub goes after the CV and usually they end up failing miserably. Too reliant on homing torpedoes that don't end up homing cuz of the carriers ten year DCP. I also laugh when the CV starts complaining about nobody helping them and being utterly helpless. Welcome to World of Surface Ships.
it is to offset the fact that the surface airstrike is airborn and you cannot control the ship or another squadron simultaneously. From that perspective, it makes sense ... however, WoWs should allow any squadron or ship to be used at any time (just shift back and forth while the ramainder stays on auto pilot), OR let the bombers and strafing take care of subs, which, by the way, I was under the impression was the exact reason for the strafing component in the attack aircraft in the first place?
I know this post is a little old news now, but this actually makes perfect sense. Unlike every other class, CVs spend a period of time not actually at, and in control, of their ship while they are flying their planes. If a submarine comes into range of a CV while he is out making a strike, he might not even notice. Subs are quite the credible threat to CVs and with their different gameplay the automated depth charge planes make perfect sense, just as do automated fighters and damage control. Admittedly, the length of the automated damage control is a bit excessive. Also, having played both a sub and a CV, the automated planes can be deadly, unless you know what you are doing as the sub commander.
so your saying CVs wouldn't be able to counter subs? huh why does that sound familiar? oh right because nothing can counter CVs and while every other class has to just accept death CV players once again get everything handed to them.
@@Archmagos_Faber You can certainly counter CVs. I have had entire flights shot down before I can get a strike off. Just group up for mutual AA defense. I had a San Diego savage a pair of my flights just the other day, and I didn't go near that area again until my team had killed the San Diego. It is the ships that go alone that are the easier pickings when you are playing a CV. See a group of ships when playing a CV, you stay away unless there is nothing left, then you start picking away at the extremities.
unfortunately you can't always stay near team mates, DDs can't spot effectively if they are attached to a CC and a CC can't support DDs if they are hiding with BBs, so effectively there is either no true counter for most ships or extremely passive and boring gameplay. @@WVGato
I would like having a small flight of maybe 2 or 4 ASW planes equipped with depth charges with a similar aiming reticle as the dive bombers. CVs historically carried some degree of ASW armaments, usually in the form of ASW planes.
Have they thought about making it so you can leave your planes and return to your ship temporarily? Then you could deal with the sub, while your planes stay flying around. Then you can return to your planes? Would that be an okiedokie way to do it?
I have a suggestion that might solve this problem if they're implementing an automatic depth charge or anti subsystem maybe that shouldn't make it automatically launch but we should get a ping on the CVS or a radar we have to activate and if it finds a sub at launches one of the anti-sub planes at it basically use their idea but at a manual used to it
How would anyone be surprised at this? Have to protect one of the “protected” classes. The only surface class that can’t detonate even though they were full of highly flammable AVIATION fuel. Their fires last forever right, since the larger the ship, the longer fire duration right? Nope, fires get put out almost immediately it seems. The near guarantee of a strike getting off by planes is awesome when the surface ships can have some awesome rng where their shells fly off the map or nowhere near where the aim was, inexplicably fall short, etc. Spotting, nothing else needs to be said there. Hey, what’s not to like by surface ship players, and we should all be happy that cvs get another advantageous perk.
My most hated class, gets stronger against, my second most hated class. I'm not sure how to feel about it...
Now come on we all know what WoW's is like. They won't put ASW planes on a carrier, it will be ASW Helicopters lol
I've been playing more CVs recently and I want to see CVs be able to control their DCP and fighters with their U and I keys it would be a lot more fun and engaging to be able to micro manage more things on your ship. Could also lengthen CV burn times (and reduce the DPS of fires) and bring back the mechanic where CVs can't launch planes when on fire so they have to manage their DCP properly.
like the good old cv rts times
They knew you would be awake then so they gave you a heads up
i personaly think its about time since cv's were the most common ship to kill subs but i agree that it shuldnt be automated carrier players have to drop what there doing anyway to try and dogde torps and find the sub with are normal planes anyway
Sea Lord, I play Submarines a lot (over 700 games in U-2501 alone) killing a cv is childsplay for any sub for one reason: I HAVE CONTROL OVER THEIR DCP!
At max range I ping them (they usually don`t move ...) then I normal torpedo them with the long range torps. If the cv starts moving those miss,if not: free damage.
When I have reloaded I am within 8km usually and their DCP is in cooldown since I activated it (I do tell my team the enemie's CV's DCP is down don`t want to hog all that potential fire farm).
With or without homing hitting them is simple and I can flood them for a pretty decent amount of time. Cv's need help.... from me... :D (automatic is bullshit people love to learn and become GOOD at something, automatic is boring and bland).
I agree with Dutch ships and hybrids needing some kind of depth charge device.
If they want to keep it a consumable why not make it a selection in the port between fighters and ASW like how cruisers either take Hydro or AA support but it's a selection per squadron.
Hainvg it auto would make sense if it wasn't for the fact that you can press F to recall the current flight. If you couldn't do that and had to use the current planes first before you go back to the cv then ok but since you can it doesn't make sense.
That was my immediate thought also.
I would like a CV split set up for support purposes like laying smoke or depth charge runs or high altitude recon
it's both good and bad.
It means a CV player can't use manual drop to predict the movement, so the sub can dodge the drops if they understand the AI
But it also means the CV can just do random maneuvers and ignore the sub, since it auto targets.
Can't wait for a super-CV class that launches 10 automatic planes with 5 torpedoes each at enemies within 15km.
I feel like they could fix subs so easily if they just made it so that every subsequent ping the submarine makes causes the sonar markers to become more accurate, until they stop pinging for a certain amount of time, giving time for the surface ships to evade before another ping comes their way, and to stop submarines from infinitely ping spamming you with impunity.
There will be more cv players on eu with the transfer from cis , would love a button for switching between carrier and plane steering
also auto asw is stupid
The f**k? As if automatic dama-con and fighters weren't boring and stupid enough already...
heck they could just give CV a plane squardon like they use to attaque but only atc as ASW ( maybe to powerfull if they can visit the map? )
also i saw asw strike beeing deleted by1 or 2 bb near they sub too.
Everyone should get the automated ASW plains then
Graff zeppelin that has cruiser guns hah
Although a better option would be a point to click while fying a squadron like a fighter consumable but unlimited obviously
next cv buffs:
spreadsheet said *cv survivabillity is too low when engaged with other ships
so we erased that citadel armor of cvs lads*
Very helpfull, new lpayer here with a question or 2. Do you have a video on air to air combat or tips? What would the order of priority for air strikes? Thanks again love your channel!
It isn't that CVs can't be bothered to manually operate ASW planes. Wargaming's design philosophy for CVs is they don't want them controlling the hull and the planes at the same time. That's why the CV dam con works automatically. They're just doubling down on that design concept. CV players never wanted that. Wargaming imposed it because they see it as a handicap. I agree though, what's going to happen is the automatic ASW will be inaccurate or hyper accurate.
This is why battlestations midway was better. Other than fact it was overall more fun than wows you could change loadout on dive bombers to depth charges. Could've at least had a special squadron manual control with depth charges.
the problem with your thought of "bothering a cv player" is that it takes time to fly from point at to point b, you can't just send aircrafts and head back to ship to do counter measures, the aircraft will automatically return and your stuck at doing nothing but counter the sub. sure WG could give automatic flying between a and b, but that will never happen.
WeeGee is missing a HUGE opportunity by not giving CV players access to player-controlled ASW aircraft which, by the way, existed in real life and played a pivotal role in both theaters of operation in WW2. Highly disappointed.
Well, people don’t use auto pilot on their CVs so they do need the handholding
Completely agree that CVs should be able to handle their own ASW planes like everyone else - as well as Dutch needing it to be balanced. The other day I was in a match where my ASW planes hit the sub 17 times followed by a team member in a DD hitting 6 so 23 overall hits in a tier 8 match - sub was still alive. Forgive me but that is NOT balanced...
:USS Yorktown has entered the chat:
So when everyone else complains about undersea cancer.... nothing happens. When sky cancer players complain about undersea cancer, oh poor baby, have auto defense
My problem with CVs is the constant spamming of fighters to keep you lit forever. You can get spotted and killed within the first minute of the game while still moving from the spawn point. Fighters should get a bigger cooldown, and not be usable immediately.
yeah, Nakhimov is supposed to have full squadron strikes to change the types of planes (because you SHOULD run out of them) but actually you can be able to spam just fighters dealing 25K per strike and being so fast that AA can't even react (like you can go 2 fighter strikes, one skip bomber and you have fighters again XD). Not to mention that every squad of Nakhimov is broken, the fighters are just the most
That's why Midway is the best -_-
Just drop your 6 HE bombs if sub is at periscopic depth or surface and 1 or 2 should hit
Juts give me way to switch Ship/Airplanes and I will do it manually. I miss so much planekills because triggering AA sector requires me to be at the ship controls, like 1 of 10 cases or less
Interaction between CV, Sub and ship is so terrible at the moment.
CV players need to be given an option to set up their Captain build,
All Attack (no fighter escort) Most damage / High risk / low spotting.
Balanced attack (swap out 2 attack planes for 2 fighter escorts) Medium Damage / Medium risk / medium spotting.
protected attack (swap out 4-5 attack planes for 4-5 fighter escorts) Low Damage / Low risk / high spotting.
Attack planes base spotting gets nerfed, Fighter escorts buff spotting and have increased survivability.
CV's get short range depth charged airstrikes.
Surface ships get Manuel fighter control captain perk (works like Manuel secondaries) If you have fighters equipped as a consumable, you can click on the incoming squadron and send your fighters to direct intercept >10km, if CV has Escorts they will try to engage interceptors.
Subs need a surface maneuver consumable, diesel and battery combines and buffs rudder and speed on surface to escape. while on the surface depth charges won't effect them, only main guns and secondaries. This gives a Sub player a choice, hide or run depending on the situation.
I wish they would add dynamic environments, tidal reefs and shallows (allows shallow draft ships access to short cuts) rain squalls, (low clouds that work like thunderstorms cross the map) which block vision from the air given surface ships the occasion hiding spots from CV's.
There just a couple of thoughts to make the class interaction tighter.
I just want old CVs, like pre-player controlled aircraft CVs.
I feel sorry for that Vladi in the beginning. Blasted by a CV and a SUB.
in reality CV should be played in coop, one that fly the squardon and attaque and one that drive the ship, and maybe some gameplay around replenish plane etc
Because CVs are magical 🙂
It's funny how they jump on this, but not for the ships that don't have any asw. With that I've dev stuck a sub with an airstrike, 10 bombs hit it! I don't know why they don't just have it that the cv can change the payload of bombers or torp planes to drop depth charges on subs. CV's run everyone else's game might as well ruin the subs day as well.
Yeah... but those cv players paid good money killing the rest of us off
they are trully the professional elite class
I wonder if this has something to do with scripting. Perhaps the cv script for planes has unlimited range and therefore the depth charge planes would have unlimited range. There is probably some wonkey script line that has a dependency for range they cant change or something.
I'm ok with the automatic sub aiming. It's not like it will hit anything.
So a CV which already risks little gets another way to defend itself automatically. Can we coddle some other classes as much as this?
Making the asw automated doesn't fix the issue. All it takes is a skilled sub player to dodge bot controlled ordinance.
Weegee should've made it manual
wargamming's approach to the CV strike on subs make sense as a compromise, CV players want airstrikes as an air group that can kill subs everywhere on the map, subs want cv's to have no ability to damage them, just having a defensive strike capability is a fair compromise, as it is not an airgroup automating it is reasonable... lets be frank it probably will not be that accurate, so lets not stress. By automating it cv players will have no / much less ability to synchronise the attacks / spotting of their airgroups with the ASW airstrike which is fairer for the sub.
as far as we know, it will track the sub exactly from what they've said right? off memory at least. If so then regular ships should get it too as well as manual ones
@@fdmct Well from what they said in the dev blog it will only hurt subs that don't know the WASD trick.
So you keep saying their dcon lasts for minutes .. it doesn’t. It’s a 60 second base .. that’s a minute.
I’d rather they had put in a swap for dive bombers to change the load out of your next launched squad to depth charge dive bombers.
Carriers in ww2 were actively using asw thru their air power btw.
As a cv player I understand why it is auto as we arnt with the hull much at all.
Every cv player wants anti sub planes.
Make it a 4th type of plane.
Or better yet get rid of the dam sub!
Get rid of both. CVs and Subs are a cancer to this game
AA is RNG I like what you said let us control the drops most good cv players us DC to Hump the sub when they come up they get ramed killed letting us aim makes us deadly with depth charges making it auto helps the sub !
ugh I miss old cvs for this reason...sure it was rts looking yet it required more strategy and situational awareness. capital ships arne't meant to be easy to understand, they require to challenge your situational awareness or be punished for it if this game held to this standard.
when playing against a cv as ss, I pray the cv doesn't find me and keep me submerged, I try my best to not ping and use only conventional or non pinged torps. cv aircraft ngl is my worst enemy cause spotting. unless I get up close and shotgun with conventional torps or do it from long range conventional torps(not that different from torp dd ngl). not pinging has increased my survivability at the cost of torp hit rate which isn't a bad trade.