Very good presentation of a deceptively simple concept: that arcs should not be nice, graceful curves, but instead should have plenty of ups and downs for a good drama! Thanks, Carl.
I found this interesting. I explicit create needs/wants/arcs for all my characters (either up front or during the first draft) but I've never thought about the pace of that change.
I kinda wanna take this idea and use it in a different way! I'm writing a love story and I think it'd make for a fun exercise to look back on my planned chapters and chart where each of the two main characters move on a scale between "I love you" and "I hate you" chapter by chapter.
With the proactivity arc, how would it be viewed if the character started off somewhere in the middle, to then move down and have flashes of up-lines that appeared more and more often to finally be fully proactive around the 3rd act?
Am I the only one that doesn't plan character arks? Or I mean, how do you all really plan them. I'm more like I push my characters to do stuff and then I adapt them based on that. I never did plan an actual ark, never told myself I'm going to write an ark and so far I do hope I never tell me to do that. =) Maybe I'm wrong, but for me it worked to be flexible and to just push my characters forward the way I think they'll act. Things happen, things to them or someone else and they change. IDk=0
I've been mostly pantsing, but I went from a pantsed rough draft used as a skeleton of a plan to crystalize off of, and... mostly pantsing the writing as I go along. Generally, I just let the characters flow how I feel they would naturally, and allow the events to shape and change them as the story progresses. I did run into one issue though, when several chapters in, I looked at one sub-character and found them to be... boring? Everyone else had a clear want to strive for, where they just kind of existed. So I went back, and figured better who they are, and what they want, and adjusted a few prior scenes accordingly. I find them much more interesting now, and using that core want allows me to more naturally explore other aspects of their character, hopefully avoiding them being one-note. So the only real "planning" I guess was when I looked back and realized something was lacking. Other than that, I like to just let things flow as they will.
@@DeckerShadoGaming Yeah, run into that too, the feeling of monotony or boredom. What I did is I looked at a few scenes, and created some new ones. I made those scenes the way they were originally, then I stopped and asked myself how can I make this worse for everyone... and just did that. So I'm something like: Hey! This scene is cute (I like to write pretty scenes), now let's add some disaster and pain. Good, WE DID IT! No we didn't. Add more, and make it even worse. Hurt more, cry more, stuff like that. The trick is not to do this with every scene; that way, we can get too much weird realism or just a depressing story, but it works for important ones. I usually maim my characters physically, mentally, or both, which allows for some growth or downfall.
Looking at Hamlet, you lacks for most of the play proactivity and only gets to do what they want to do at the very end. Guess that is a boring play, someone should tell Shakespeare.
@@aix83 Well, Brandon Sanderson just pointed out that Dune is also just Hamlet, and he is not wrong, Paul is also just waiting around until finally doing something.
Very good presentation of a deceptively simple concept: that arcs should not be nice, graceful curves, but instead should have plenty of ups and downs for a good drama!
Thanks, Carl.
Hmmmm! It makes sense to me! I like veering into odd territory with characters, so it's cool to see the arc in that way. :D
Arc, snarc. Where's the cat?
🤣
I found this interesting. I explicit create needs/wants/arcs for all my characters (either up front or during the first draft) but I've never thought about the pace of that change.
I kinda wanna take this idea and use it in a different way! I'm writing a love story and I think it'd make for a fun exercise to look back on my planned chapters and chart where each of the two main characters move on a scale between "I love you" and "I hate you" chapter by chapter.
Please tell us that the cat is OK. The cat sets your videos apart from the Herd.
With the proactivity arc, how would it be viewed if the character started off somewhere in the middle, to then move down and have flashes of up-lines that appeared more and more often to finally be fully proactive around the 3rd act?
Or the character must sacrifice likability to earn skills.
Am I the only one that doesn't plan character arks?
Or I mean, how do you all really plan them. I'm more like I push my characters to do stuff and then I adapt them based on that. I never did plan an actual ark, never told myself I'm going to write an ark and so far I do hope I never tell me to do that. =)
Maybe I'm wrong, but for me it worked to be flexible and to just push my characters forward the way I think they'll act. Things happen, things to them or someone else and they change. IDk=0
I've been mostly pantsing, but I went from a pantsed rough draft used as a skeleton of a plan to crystalize off of, and... mostly pantsing the writing as I go along. Generally, I just let the characters flow how I feel they would naturally, and allow the events to shape and change them as the story progresses.
I did run into one issue though, when several chapters in, I looked at one sub-character and found them to be... boring? Everyone else had a clear want to strive for, where they just kind of existed. So I went back, and figured better who they are, and what they want, and adjusted a few prior scenes accordingly. I find them much more interesting now, and using that core want allows me to more naturally explore other aspects of their character, hopefully avoiding them being one-note.
So the only real "planning" I guess was when I looked back and realized something was lacking. Other than that, I like to just let things flow as they will.
@@DeckerShadoGaming Yeah, run into that too, the feeling of monotony or boredom. What I did is I looked at a few scenes, and created some new ones. I made those scenes the way they were originally, then I stopped and asked myself how can I make this worse for everyone... and just did that.
So I'm something like: Hey! This scene is cute (I like to write pretty scenes), now let's add some disaster and pain.
Good, WE DID IT!
No we didn't.
Add more, and make it even worse. Hurt more, cry more, stuff like that.
The trick is not to do this with every scene; that way, we can get too much weird realism or just a depressing story, but it works for important ones. I usually maim my characters physically, mentally, or both, which allows for some growth or downfall.
Looking at Hamlet, you lacks for most of the play proactivity and only gets to do what they want to do at the very end. Guess that is a boring play, someone should tell Shakespeare.
Well, as someone who is not a big fan of shakespare, I'll take on this task myself, since no one else dares to.
then again Hamlet has a duration of 2h while fantasy novels frequently get to 24
@@aix83 Well, Brandon Sanderson just pointed out that Dune is also just Hamlet, and he is not wrong, Paul is also just waiting around until finally doing something.
The only cat present is the one in the frame...🐈🥲