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Culture is a dangerous thing to speak of these days.. just telling why and how brutal the world was, and would be without modern "rules" and "rule keepers" is just begging for cancelation.
@@KiithNaabal a lote of hate on shadiversity's book, for describing a society who forces women to have sex(unbeknownst to the protagonist). But it's something that has happened again, and again, even today in some countries... And without ruling and gatekeeping would happen again multiple times in the future. (Which is a scary thought).. And he (not only for that, but certainly also for this) gets Alot of hate for just describing a dark tendency in humen history thougout his book. Not to mention how many movements there have been to try and change old movies, because they weren't appropriate. And in my country multipe things have changed names because of this. Like the cream bun, which name was inappropriate.. so yes we can write about everything.. but not always everything, certainly not in a cultural perspektive.
I always mention Tom Bombadil when I talk about the book to a person who has only seen the movies or if someone argues that ALL movie adaptations are worse than the original books...
The worst example of an info-dump I ever came across was in a story where the main character wakes up to find his village under attack by bandits. He grabs his bow and runs outside, crouching down behind the wheel of a burning wagon to see what’s going on. The writer then started to tell me about the character and world. It was a real ‘You have to be kidding me!’ moment.
I just ran a dnd session where the players ask the first person they talked to about the world. Since I wasn't sure how much info the character had access to. I rolled for insight, a litteral nat 20. As much as I didn't want to I info dumped a whole bunch of info about the multiple factions vying for power, the instability of the kingdom and the gang like affiliation system used to identify both allegiance and turncoats. I was atleast vague on the details a traveling merchant couldn't possibly know even if he gets a nat 20.
@@adamtideman4953 Thats the same situation but funnier transition. I don't want to transition from the action. Please keep the action going or dont start it in the first place :/
It sounded like the Romans were less interested in the past as much as they were with preserving the Republic. "Remember your ancestors" doesn't mean "Do whatever they did in the past" it meant "We already fought for a republic once; don't let it go to waste"
Agreed, I think our host here is slightly overinterpreting it. And I also think anyone who goes on Lex Friedmans podcast is a little suspect. I write a lot of op-eds against an infrasteucture project in my home town, called Lynetteholm, and have often ended them by saying "Lynetteholm delenda est". My reference there is older than between the two Brutuei(?) but I would laugh if a historian said that this means I was obsessed with the antique past on a personal level. (Or, I am a nerd, but not in like a spiritual sense)
@@nicholaswoollhead6830 What's wrong with Lex Fridman? Also, your example is kinda apples and oranges. Could someone use the deeds of an ancestor of yours from 500 years ago to compel you to betray and kill a friend of yours? Can you even name any ancestors of yours from 500 years ago and would their socio-political legacy matter to you even if you could? If not, then I think the anecdote is a good example of how deep those traditions ran with the Romans.
a better example would be, that the romans where so obsessed with the word king, that they came up with tons of different names meaning basically the same thing yet not the same thing, so that you were not called out as a king, and now we have all these different words in different languages, Tsar, Kaiser, Emperor, Dictator, Principes (First Citizen) etc.
Tolkien didnt publish any of his worldbuilding stuff in his lifetime, his son and grandson did that. He seemed to hate people searching for lore outside of the fiction itself
@Rynewulf haha exactly! I would feel the same if anyone wanted to read my unstructured, unfunny, blocks of endless paragraphs that amounts to an insane timeline/dry history text book. BUT LET ME KEEP THAT. Tbf, Tolkien's worldbuilding is of course a masterclass in linguistics itself. So I'm glad the heirs of Tolkien published it (if they hadn't, I bet oxford would have done the same and made it accessible as published diaries or letters available only upon academic request, beyond the public reach).
It's essentially the only way to ensure a well developed story. Most game devs, comic artists, and series showrunners have said in interviews in the past that whatever you see in their final product is barely 20% of what was brainstormed in pre-production. Some of the main characters were once just background furniture only to be upgraded to the forefront because there was something about them that just worked. Entire locations, events in history, characters, and plot points are sketched out, most never seeing their way into the product, or if they do, they are altered and used in other places. I've personally sketched out a world region, with places and cultures, outlining thousands of years of history, and the entire story that will actually make it into my final product will only be set in 5% of that map, with less than 10% of the characters involved, and after 95% of the events have already taken place, where the main character is mainly uncovering the mystery. A friend even laughed that I made enough plot for five games, but will only use enough to fill a short story. Not all of it is actually good. Some of it needs to be left out to make room for better narratives.
@Rhynewulf No, he didn't.... Tolkien planned to publish the silmarillion... He even pitched it to his publisher before LotR, they just werent interested.
11:50 That reminds of a scene in C. S. Lewis’s _Narnia: The Horse and His Boy_ where the main character had grown up in a fishing village. This was the description when he saw mountains for the first time: “Om the far side of it were huge blue things, lumpy but with jagged edges, and some of them with white tops.” Which feels like exactly how someone who has never seen them would describe mountains.
@@naomistarlight6178Oh Ive felt that, and had the inverse of telling disbelieving people how flat, wet and near the sea everything is around here. (And recently had a bad netflix sports thing show snowy mountains in the background of my area, when we almost dont even have mountains in the country)
@@Tubalcain422not big rocks. Many coasts have huge rocks. Mountains aren't just an enormous rock. They are dirt and many, many rocks, some very small. I think if someone hadn't seen mountains before they might not understand them. Maybe not today with tv and movies. Today it would be difficult to grow up not exposed to many pictures of mountains.
I have this theory I've been forming, that everyone wanted to tell stories at one point in their lives, but for some reason that want was hidden for some reason. To this day, I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want to write in some capacity
Sounds like the seeds to a cool story. A person does a genealogy search which triggers, conveniently, 23 related people who have a historical connection. Throw in some Romeo and Juliet, toss in a touch of Hatfield and McCoy, and let the stew simmer...
Either 22 other senators or 60-ish or so other senators. Caesar had 23 stab wounds inflicted upon him (one of them by Brutus), while there were about 60 known members of the conspiracy to remove Caesar from power. I also don't like how this historian seems to not acknowledge any other motives Brutus might have had to act against Caesar, such as him being an optimate and having been a close friend to the arch-conservative Cato (the guy who rather disemboweled himself than live in a world with Caesar in power). Also "friend" is not quite the right term when his mother was Caesar's mistress.
I'm a programming teacher. It seems the rules of not overwhelming the pupils also applies to fantasy. Also imagine a baby learning how reality works: first we have the MOM-context: mom is a smiling face giving you food and comfort, then the baby come to learn the arm-and-feet context, when not hungry and not asleep there are four funny things that you can wave, jerk around, touch things and grasp them. All knowledge acquisition should go outwards from situation to situation, so that the person conquers them one by one by testing and learning on how to achieve effects in that situation. There should be an entry point from one situation to the next one, so that things don't become overwhelmingly complex.
I think with programming, the biggest hurdle isn't the rules, but the terminology and lack of awareness of "why we do things" a.k.a. best-practices. Hence you only really learn both through trial-and-error and experience. Like, I still remember being a junior and not even knowing how to read documentation. Yeah. So I think that might apply to fantasy writers (or any) too: They might see this advice (best-practices), but not fully understand it due to the terminology.
"All knowledge acquisition should go outwards" makes me think of Vygotsky's Zone of Proximal Development. I have found that to be a very simple, but shockingly effective, way to think about teaching any subject to any person. Sounds like you think in a very similar way. 😊
Yep. Some of the hardest bits of learning are encountering things you don't have many ins to. This can happen if you skipped steps... like I did a language immersion program, and never learned the language, so I went into like grade ten math barely having learned the prior several years (I passed, but that's about all), so there were significant gaps in my understanding that I needed to cross to get good results that others didn't. Or I got very annoyed that I just felt like I had no idea about economics. Like, stuff would happen with policy or whatever, and I'd basically have no real opinion, because I knew I just didn't know anything about the subject. I'd read about it, but I'd basically just have to take things at face value. It took dozens of hours of reading about economics before things started to click over from "I know what this says, but I don't really understand" to feeling like I was starting to have a grasp of what I was reading about. It's sort of like when learning to ride a bike, there's that first stage where you have no idea what's going on, then there's a stage where you know enough to make decisions about how to control the bike, but it's basically a very mentally active process that's prone to error, and then at some point it "clicks" and you can just ride the bike. There's a gap between ignorance and knowledge, and then a similar gap between knowledge and understanding.
A great example is Iron Man. He has built the Arc Reactor before in big and retained that knowledge. And then he has to build it small enough for his chest. As a weapons manufacturer and designer, he has the knowledge to build the first armed iron suit. He builds on that with a better Arc Reactor and iron suit. Iron suit fails due to icing and he reevaluates his options due to past de-icing solution of his military satellite (and later uses the same problem on the villain). Equipping the iron suit in a pinch isn't feasible, so he manages to stuff a self-assembling iron suit into a suitcase. Still too cumbersome, so he has his suit come to him. Ultron introduces swarm tactics, so he takes that idea and makes it his own. He builds on knowledge and failures.
Wow that first piece of advice is solid. I was always obsessed with filling the gaps of my world and lore, and realize that the enigma of the world begs readers to keep reading
I agree. I personally like to fill the gaps as well, but more for personal Knowledge. Readers don't necessarily have to know Everything I know. I can use my Knowledge when it's relevant. A good Example that explained this for me was from Another video about Magic Systems. The idea was that people are tempted to Lay out the full Magic System in their World. But by doing this, Magic becomes more like science than Magic. Magic is Magic because you can't explain Everything. People in your World might not know fully how it Works either. It's Supernatural even to them and that's why it Works.
The filled gaps are for you, the writer, to help you write your story not for the reader. That’s your secret between you and the reader that you gatekeep and you only pass out keys to the reader when they’re ready. But keep those details as they become useful to reference later!
Had a hard time letting go of that habit of filling the gap. It’s like I want the reader to have all the info at once 😅 might have to re write a few of my early chapters who had too many info dumps. Sometimes it’s best to let the reader enter your world with many questions , wich could or could not be answered(that’s why you make sequels or lexicon at the end of the book)
I really wish i had a writing class like this when i was a kid. I remember completely missing the mark on a writing assignment because it was just a massive info dump and it had no plot. But instead of cultuvating that imaganation and desire to world build, it was like "no this is wrong. you need to start over"
Re: point 5: I mean, third person omniscient is a valid writing perspective - though if it suddenly pops up in what's otherwise third person limited, then yeah, that could be a problem.
Depends. Some writers (Orson Scott Card especially) use chapter openings to write from unique perspectives to give understanding that viewpoint characters either don't have or wouldn't make sense to give. Usually the perspective is of a character, but the concept extends to whatever you'd like. The thing is you've got to be consistent with it. If your chapters are heft enough, and you do it every chapter, the reader gets into a certain cadence that can even draw them deeper into the story. Doing it at random can have the opposite effect. I personally like opening a chapter with a poem in omniscient perspective that either clarifies something important in the previous chapter, or foreshadows something coming in the next chapter.
I agree. Take the writings of Lord Dunsany, HP Lovecraft, even Tolkien himself, there are passages and entire stories of objective descriptions. It depends on how it is done. I think specifically limiting descriptions to only POV-subjective based, can feel contrived. There are how characters see things, but, also, how things objectively are in a world. So, it would make more sense to have objective descriptions of a world interacting with character subjective descriptions of it. Both should organically occur in a story.
I sometimes give an existing personality to the 3rd person omniscient view. Personality from a certain character featured in that chapter, usually by the end of the paragraph, like a bit of quip, optimistic or pessimistic remark about certain things that happen in that chapter.
I occasionally use third person omniscient when there is no other way to convey information that is necessary, or I would need to add something boring as an excuse to introduce the element the audience needs to know. Sometimes it's better to keep the flow of the story and throw it in sparingly.
The deer hunting example reminds me of something I’m currently writing in a story, in which a king’s brother jumps on the back of a large boar to try and kill it while it’s injured. It’s unsafe, but I choose to treat that as a character moment that proves how reckless and wild he is. The other characters admonish him for it, too.
@lancenwokeji6349 Tad Williams writer of Otherland and Memory Sorrow and Thorn. Excellent fantasy author. Excels at giving characters their own voice and tying together 100 story threads into an insane conclusion. Also likes to use dream imagery. GRRM once met him at a convention while he was writing Memory Sorrow and Thorn and demanded that he HURRY UP AND FINISH. It was that series that made him believe that a story like ASoIaF could succeed.
One trick I use is to ask myself "why did I include that?" It just helps me conceptualise what the characters are doing to their environment or what the environment is doing to the characters.
On the topic of Roman cultural norms, they had some really fascinating ones. Like, they were obsessed with the idea of how important it was to use your own words - any profession that required people to use somebody else's words (actor, public herald, etc.) would be a very low-status profession, and it would have been scandalous for a politician to have speechwriters, they way that they all do now. Studying history in real depth is great for world-building, because you get a ton of examples of wildly different societies that were nevertheless real ways that humans can live.
It’s funny because whilst there were things in Roman culture that we’d look at as barbaric now, this idea about owning the words you say would probably be a really good thing to bring back to the modern day
A really interesting thing is that I've heard them described as almost deathly afraid of kings, to the point that anyone who tried to gather too much power would likely be killed, and even when they had Emperors, they'd be kept in check, to a degree. Notice how no one ever called themselves a king, because that would guarantee that you'd be deposed, and killed.
My favorite example of bad logistics is the Kaminoans from Star Wars's Bad Batch. There is no reason why they wouldn't back up Jango's DNA. Not only is DNA everywhere, but it can be digitized, and probably needs to be so for the cloning process. As a bio-informatitian, this broke the immersion for me.
Ah. Yeah, I can see that but my disenchantment came from the over saturation of gimmick aliens and tree houses for bucktooth teddy bears. Return of the Jedi was sadly only the beginning of the end.
Another example is Star Trek redoing the periodic table in "Rascals" - I didn't see the episode, but a "Transonic" series of elements? Do your research, the periodic table is everywhere…
@@benjystrauss2524 well besides the fact that there have been so many writers, there's been a lot of retconning and ignoring of stuff in the more recent years because Disney basically said fuck the books established Galore
Point 3 makes me think of Dragon Age: Veilguard. Classic High-Fantasy setting, but the writers could only see it from a modern viewpoint: Modern jargon and vernacular; modern sarcastic, quippy dialogue; and strange things like a pirate guild that doesn't actually steal or pillage???
Same thing with Transformers One. The modern slang and mode of speech killed it for me (along with no modulation on their voices so they just sound like.... people, and not giant robots). Don't even get me started on Failguard and the other DEI slop flops of 2024
As a writer, I wanted to quickly give my most sincere thanks for content creators like yourself who share your knowledge and experiences. It made being a writer possible for me. I don't have the money, or the time, to pursue a formal education in creative writing. Videos like this are my classroom. Thank you!
Michael Ende in "Neverending Story" (not the movie) has the phrase "But this is a different story and shall be told at another time." spread out numerous times over his novel. The second part of the book is actually all about world building, because Bastian has to literally build the world anew and gets tangled up in the outcomes of his worldbuilding.
@@naomistarlight6178 Penguin books has the Neverending Story in the "Puffin Clothbound Classics" edition. Another edition is from Dutton Books for Young Readers.
I wanna add my two cents as an aspiring writer. I've written almost three novels, so far, and I’m working on several others. 1. Trying to fill every gap Mystery is such an effective, compelling tool that captivates and draws a lot of readers (or viewers/listeners, depending on the medium). This also gives writers some freedom to make adjustments to their worlds as they write and build and flush! I totally agree here. 2. Parallel worldbuilding I partially agree with this one. I do think that “parallel worldbuilding” can actually be a good thing if done properly, but this might be a bit difficult, especially for less-experienced authors (including me!). 3. Trapped in present norms This is one of the toughest ones for me. I often find myself writing my characters as a bit too “contemporary.” My stories often have a more tongue-in-cheek attitude, which can make managing this slightly more challenging since you want to connect with the audiences of today and tomorrow. I’m hoping to get better at this as I write more. 4. Not writing convincing logistics This can be a bit tricky, but fortunately we live in the age of the internet. It’s generally not difficult to learn A LOT about a subject and to even get details fact-checked in your story by people who are extremely knowledgeable in what you’re writing about. I’d say this resource is such a valuable tool that should definitely be taken advantage of. 5. Objective descriptions Not every story needs this. I agree that it can totally enhance an immersive experience and conveyance of character and environment, but this approach isn’t a demand of all stories. I like it, though, and try to use this when I can in my stories. Of course, if a story is written in first-person, then this should totally be used. In third-person, it really depends on style and intent. 6. Static world I really like this one. In the stories that I write I try to make certain events slowly change broad areas and a couple of really big events change entire continents. This is a fun writing tool to play with for sure. 7. Boring infodumps I do think there are ways to write interesting infodumps, but you want to avoid droning on and on. And yeah, boring info dumps whether they’re short or long are… well, boring. It’s also generally just more fun to not dump information but to provide it slowly over time as it’s wanted/needed. 8. Cultural monoliths I agree with this. I’m generally not a fan of the “elves and orcs” fantasy worlds (excluding Tolkien), but it’s not nearly so bad if there’s well-written diversity in these races (which, funnily enough, Tolkien didn’t really do!). HOWEVER, with our modern culture, I feel that some people see this as an opportunity to insert their agenda and shoehorn politics and current social commentary into their story in a jarring, inelegant way. The point can be taken too far, too, though. In real life, we only have humans as examples. Elves and orcs (just as very simple examples) should have a different form of diversity than we do. Otherwise, they’re basically just humans who look a bit different. I feel like over-homogenization of races could have actually made this list, too. 9. Feeling like you need to know everything I found this a little amusing, actually. I love building the world as I write. Like you, I tend to outline and define a lot about my world(s) before I begin writing, but I’m sort of reading and learning about my story as I write. That makes it more exciting for me, too! I didn’t plan on writing this much. But I found this really fun and a nice thought experiment. I liked your list and it gave me stuff to think about. Thanks! Gonna check out more of your videos for sure. Hopefully I won’t spend so much time writing any more long comments, though. haha
I teach creative writing in high school. Avoiding objective descriptions is a great point I don’t hammer much, but will now. It both makes the world and narrative feel more realistic, and also provides important characterization via narration.
I think a lot of this came from reading Tolkien as kids but Tolkien regularly uses Gandalf or Elrond or Aragorn to describe things to the hobbits. An Angel, an ancient Elf who was THERE when it happened or one of the most well educated Men in Middle Earth. He pnly gives tiny bit of info when a character like that is not there (like at the crossroads, or discussing the Barrow downs mound in the appendices not the story).
8:50 Another example of this, from a musician's perspective, is a small book I dropped that didn't understand instruments. They had a whole page or two describing the band "Dragging bows across their trumpets", "playing a whole song in one breathe on their violin" - stuff that makes zero sense to anyone with basic music knowledge. Or even in movies when they have live diegetic music and the mix includes instruments that aren't even there
Also even in a woodwind or brass instrument you do breathe into, one breath for an entire song makes no sense. I play clarinet. Instruments mostly need a whole hell of a lot of breath per note. There's no way you'd get out more than a few notes. Just stretches my suspension of disbelief too much, even if it were the right type of instrument.
Honestly that sounds like it must have been a joke, satire. I sincerely doubt that someone who knows enough about a trumpet or violin to even mention it has not also seen how it’s played. Seems like that author may have been cheeky, or trying to convey something about the ineptitude of those musicians.
Great video Jed, number 1 really is so important, and it ties into something else that is important as well, trust that your readers can understand without having every little thing spelled out to them.
I've gotten feedback on my first chapter from a tiny handful of strangers and this seemed to be something people were incapable of considering. It was weird. I was giving details where you read between the lines and people are like, explain more! I'm just sitting here like... explaining more is not the point!! Use your deductive reasoning skills!!
@@t3amtomahawk There were some who understood the assignment. It was a huge relief cause I was like... am I writing this shittily or do these guys just suck at reading between the lines?? 🤣😭
Just noticed how in your bookshelves, you have them with spine facing outwards, exept for the books you authored, which have their front cover facing out instead. Gotta say, nice little easter egg lol
I just started to write my book, and your list has already pointed out a couple problems I have. Thank you for doing this video. I never had much confidence, but I love how you are not just explaining, but give examples.
When you described your initial hunting scene, I was immediately taken aback by how unrealistic it was. That was an excellent use of a mistake to teach others. Thanks!
About trapped in present norms, that was one of my biggest gripes with Aragon. Despite being a kid living with his poor blacksmith uncle, the MC's living conditions and morning routine had little difference from a kid in Midwest America.
The image of the floating citadel with the waterfalls in the sunshine comes to mind. Where tf does all the damn water come from? Does the citadel have a portal to the Elemental Water Realm somewhere? Are the waterfalls all an illusion? It certainly looks cool as a fantasy dreamscape, but you open some serious opportunities for ruining your suspension of disbelief.
My favorite loredump style is from the Wheel of Time novel. Robert Jordan's loredumps were always so simple and easy to digest and fitted into the current events of the story, without holding it back.
@@tomjoyce7037But the competition is just a pitch for the concept of the world, most of the points brought up in this video are how to approach it narratively
A thing i've noticed that i'm doing a lot with my world building, is that many of the cultures i present are in the middle of some revolutionary change, or at a pivotal moment regarding their prosperity etc. I don't know why, but i just find it exciting to throw my characters into a shaky foundation.
The world is never static, hence why. There's a coup, a natural catastrophe, a civil war, a famine, an emigration crisis, an immigration crisis, a political protest, etc. happening all around the world at any given time. Most of the world lives on a shaky foundation and even a utopia would be rifed with problems. That's conflict. That's drama. That's interesting.
As an amateur, who wants to become a good writer, and who is still in school and knows absolutely nothing about how to build a fantasy world or how to probably write, I often feel lost at where and how I begin to learn. Especially when all of my time goes to learning other things. Even though a lot of scenes, characters and ideas flutters in my head the idea of actually writing it often gets me so demotivated that I don't write -- even though I desperately want to. I feel like it becomes a battle between what I want to do, and what I actually can (or cannot) do. But then I watch one of your videos, and you explain things so well! Your explanations and your obvious passion rubs off, and suddenly it all gets a bit easier. Thank you so much for this! It is such a big help. I'm not sure if you have a video for people like me who often feels demotivated, but I would love some advice if you have any, because I want to create these stories, but it's just too difficult sometimes. Again thanks a lot for all these amazing videos and everything!
I remember being a little like this, in the sense that I was reluctant to put pen to paper unless what came out was worth keeping. But the truth is, a lot of the value from writing comes from the process itself, just getting it out there. That stays with you - you learn something, even if you throw the whole draft away. Resist the temptation to be precious about making it good first time, just write some words and see where it takes you. It might be mostly crap; but it's never wasted time. And you can keep anything you like; there'll be time for editing tomorrow.
@Novodantis I will remember this thank you! I guess I am a perfectionist, which sometimes keeps me from doing things because I fear failure or something that isn't as perfect as I imagined it. But I will keep this in mind, and hopefully continue for a long long time. I am full of ambitions, but I will make sure to never let those ambitions stand in my way of growing and learning. (:
The first step is to read. Generally speaking, at some point you will feel like "this is really cool, I wonder what would happen if the story went like this instead?" and there comes the impetus to write. Then you have to write. It's going to be bad, but until you've written, you don't know about writing. It's only once you've got some experience writing that you will be better able to analyze what other writers are doing when you read, and be able to take advantage of learning about the craft of writing. I'd also encourage an iterative view of creation. You're not writing the finished product, you're writing the first draft. If it's bad, you can try again. There's also an idea that's put most succinctly about drawing, that goes something like: "everyone has a thousand bad drawings in them, and it's only after you draw them that you'll start to draw kind of okay drawings." Basically, you're going to be bad at things when you start. Sucking is part of the process. No amount of agonizing over it is going to let you avoid sucking.
In my book, I actually used an infodump to my advantage. My main character was being thrust into his first tutoring lesson alongside several other established students, and the tutor started to grill the students about various political and geographical things, allowing me to basically dumb a lot of reader interest information into the text, while at the same time having my main character panicking about how many terms and names were being thrust upon him in a matter of minutes.
I did a bit where the characters were going through tutorial videos, getting small tidbits about how the shields work on their ship (which they stole), weapons, etc, and getting frustrated because they're trying to figure out how to lock the doors for privacy. It's a sci-fi story, granted, but I still thought it made for a funny scene. Debating on an edit going back and poking fun at the 'as you all know' trope and having a video go "Doors function as a way to partition a space" and the character getting super exasperated and go "I KNOW WHAT A DOOR IS TELL ME HOW TO LOCK IT"
Reminds me a bit of that part in the beginning of Fourth Wing where Mc recites her nation’s history to herself to calm her down while being in a life or death situation. I didn’t really retain much of the info dumped but I still thought it was a pretty nice way of info dumping (especially since she’s a passionate scribe, so it tells us something about her character as well)
if i may, i think point 5 should also take into consideration WHAT the reason for the character being there is. true, a thief would look for "targets" but, if he got into the inn to avoid being captured, he would look for a place to hide. likewise, if he just got into town after a few days of travel, he might subconsciously pay more attention to the smell of food or to where the most "comfy looking seat" is
So I bought The Thunder Heist- finished it today. And oh my God. I've always been a bit of a skeptic on whether his advice works, but it TOTALLY DOES. Without spoiling, the ending was so well built up, I want to know more about Prowlerak, and what Gabine did to earn herself the death sentence. Would highly recommend. Keep up the good work
Yo I almost forgot about that place even though I read the book. They sounded evil asf I want to see more of them. I want to know more about them and Kef’s crew too.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it. At this stage, the plan is to return to the Twisted Seas once I've finished my current project (the sequel to Kingdom of Dragons).
@@Jed_Hernejust found your channel mate, is there any chance there will be any audiobooks on audible? I saw you only had one so far but written several so was wondering if more are coming! Don't get me wrong just one audiobook is still huge!
I’m not gonna spoil anything, but you should read The Sailor’s Gambit if you want to see more of Prowlerak. It’s a prequel novella set in the Twisted Seas universe that follows Kef on an adventure. It’s a quick read and I think you’ll like it if you enjoyed The Thunder Heist.
1:38 Good, we're on the same page. Was scared for a sec. I like knowing the "truth", and the percieved truths, even if the audience doesn't know. Helps me stay consistent, the roots that determine the leaves.
I think you've saved me from wasting my time. I was just embarking on a huge writing project I've been mapping out. Having watched your video I realise I will never be able to match people's expectations. I'm going to to just delete it all and go back to punching the clock. Thank you.
The biggest thing I learned about worldbuilding is we usually apprach it backwards. I was admiring the mystery that Horizon Zero Dawn is built around and trying to figure out how to do something even a fraction thst powerful myself. I even searched for tips to create mystery which mostly went nowhere. Eventually I figured out its not about creating mystery, it's about having the discipline not to sabotage the mystery. Most writers who created as interesting a concept for their world would be eager to share it with the audience ASAP. "In te not too distant future, self-replicating machines were created, then so now you play as a hunter in a post-postapocalyptic world populated by machines!" Which sure it's a cool concept but it cuts the throat of the setting's opportunity to offer a deep mystery to unravel. Instead they showed us just enough to hook us but kept all the awesome stuff hidden, and the mystery just happens. And some great writing makes it pop of course!
I would like to add that not only is the world-building backwards, it's not taking any steps forward. We're not specific enough. Honestly, I think the mystery in Horizon Zero Dawn is... anticlimactic and self-sabotaged from the get-go due to them treating literally everything as a grand mystery revelation. SPOILERS BELOW Let me ask you, when you learned in the "twist" the machines are actually terraformers, did you go "Yoooooo holy shiiiiiiiiiit?!?!?!"? I doubt it. You probably went "Oh neat, that makes sense, I guess." It's not a factoid that changes how you see the world. And terraforming? That's a pretty boring and vanilla purpose for the machines. It's right up there with "to kill all humans/life" for robots. Now imagine if instead of that being the big twist of the entire game, knowing the purpose of the machines is terraforming is common knowledge. It's not a mystery at all and the tribes actively USE the machines to terraform their landscapes. THIS would explain how they've been able to build grand cities and such despite having stone-age technology and wisdom. Instead, the mystery is now solely about WHY the robots are terraforming and why they're animalistic. I think now the mystery is more focused on far more interesting questions and keeps the player/viewer engaged in things that won't have anti-climactic reveals to. And personally, the question of "what is the purpose of the machines?" isn't as compelling as "why were they created for that purpose?"
@jesustyronechrist2330 lol it's worse than that. There were some quests I hadn't completed so after the reveal about what the project was I want back to do them before passing the point of no return. And then without the mystery motivating me, I DNFed the game lol. But at the same time, it seems pretty obvious they are terraforming. I certainly never got the feeling from the worldbuilding and gameplay that the animal-like robots were the bad guys in the story. I'd say though, that a mystery doesn't have to be great to motivate the audience. I was pretty sure what the project was for a long time. There weren't a lot of options available, especially given the clue of the post apoc game world. It's kinda the real world of the Matrix just not as ugly. But fiction doesn't have to be the greatest thing ever as long as it's decently well written, reasonably interesting to read, and gives a sense of progression, and fresh enoughnot to be a chore. The other thing is the most comortably fun thing to read, watch, or play is something that's like 90% derivative, based on what we already like, but just fresh enough to be interesting. And that's what's going to reach a mass audience. There is a thrill to finding something that feels really original though. Those tend to be more niche thpugh.
I'm very sceptical of stories that rely too much on plot twists and mystery boxes. Unless the anticipation towards the twist you already know is as good as the surprise, the story works exactly once.
It's funny you mention Horizon because I immediately thought of that game when this video talked about "trapped in present norms". I think the main character, Aloy suffers from this. We see that she was raised in isolation by one guy who acts very serious all the time. So why does Aloy act like a Gen Z teen when she gets older? Where did she get her sense of humor? Those things aren't genetic. She doesn't act anything like someone who grew up in that world. It completely took me out of the story. I think it would have been a better idea to make her more naive and curious like Ariel from The Little Mermaid rather than a copy of Ellie from The Last of Us which also had the same "trapped in present norms" problem.
@KilledByKangaroo dunno. I have no idea what a gen z teen acts like. I was a Gen X teen who grew up in the woods with very limited social contact until I was 12, and only very spradic access to TV until I was 17. Homeschooled, one brother, occasionally visiting a few other homeschool kids 2 miles away, and cousins a few times per year being my only contact with other kids, and I didn't notice anything that seemed alien about her actions. More broadly though, the range of ondividual personality variation is vast. There are individuals we have recods of in various times in history whose attitudes could be seen as anachronistic if they weren't historical figures. One can't really say any individual's attitudes are anachronistic, only if the overall culture is.
So this was a crazy recommendation to get, as I am just finally reaching the final editing stages of my first book. I was actually expecting this to just completely destroy all my progress by telling me I did everything wrong. But I really enjoyed how you explained everything without this becoming a 1 hour video, and how most of this didn’t just explain how things were wrong, but also how to correct those things.
I stumbled on to avoiding most of these mistakes because I usually kept the backstory in my head as to *why* something was a certain way, but only mentioned it if it was necessary at that moment to the reader. This also gives me the flexibility to change something if a better idea comes along to modify it, and I'm not contradicting something I wrote.
I am so glad I came across you I am writing a story and all the world building videos are about d&d. It’s really annoying that I can never find an author in this field. TYSM
10:32 "In most cases you should not be trying to write a guide book that objectively describes your world. You are writing about a character's subjective experience of that world." I think this applies to Sci-Fi as well and is why I had such a problem with the Three Body Problem trilogy, and *especially* Death's End. There are pages upon pages upon pages of "This happened, and then this happened and then this happened which caused this nation to respond like this and then they did this" and it's like man I don't care about any of this because I'm not seeing how this impacts our characters in any way whatsoever.
Yeah, I have very conflicting opinions about the Three Body Problem; on the other hand, the good parts were superb, you know, the moments when the story actually progressed and there happened something. But then the other half of the books were so boring exposition and info dumbs that I was almost rotting by brains out. They are still good books, especially the last one is awesome, and I do recommend them, but don't really worry about skipping a boring page or two, honestly. You'll know when the story picks up again.
@ my favorite example of pointless exposition was during Dark Forest when that wall facer spends like 2 hours talking about this complex dead man’s switch that he developed to destroy New York, and went into crazy detail about it, only to get on a helicopter and immediately tell someone “oh yeah I was just lying”
This is going to help me massively. I only started writing in January 2024. I have seen an improvement already, but I need to keep writing, keep learning, keep integrating advice out there into my craft and I hope to have something that will hold up against a very critical industry. I can't wait to find out the prospect of what the future might think about my future story telling.
That last tip, hit the my main problem with my writing. I love adding details and lore I'd want to bring up and use in other stories of this world, but I havent't even finished the first story.
That is another mistake new writers make, and it's an easy trap to fall into. The biggest drawback is that you can paint yourself into a corner without a way out if your world building is too detailed.
This "know your real world stuff" - advice to fantasy writers feels so basic, but it isn't spoken about NEARLY enough. Tolkien wasn't able to write one of the best stories ever written because he was "talented" or "allowed himself to write what he felt like" or "had an amazing technique no one has been able to recreate". No, Tolkien was able to write his masterwork because he had a long lifetime's worth of real world experience and knowledge. He studied literature, linguistics, mythology, folklore, theology and history for his entire life. He also fought in a world war. Tolkien's wealth of knowledge and INSIGHT into real things gave him the edge he needed to write a book no one has been able to surpass since. At least, not in the genre he began.
You have NO IDEA how excited I was to see Greg Aldrete show up in your video. He was one of my professors in college, who I had for an Intro to Western Civilization course. For Halloween my freshman year, I walked in dressed up as him (jeans, tennis shoes, button down shirt, suit coat, glasses). I had the entire class of 300 people go silent like I was about to start class. Professor Aldrete walks in and goes to start class, and looks right at me in front row, completely losing his train of thought.
This was great to listen to! It helped as a gauge to make sure I'm going the right direction with my writing and It is encouraging to know that I avoided most, if not all of these. Thank you for the advice!
I'm a video game storywriter/designer, and this helps with this as well, not just novels. Playable versus Text, it doesn't matter, worldbuilding is amazing and this was really helpful
Man I’m glad I found this channel. As a freshly beginning fantasy writer, I’m finding this advice very helpful. Keep up the good work. Also to anyone curious, the name for my series is The Tales of Midistria.
I've never been interested in writing anything , but this video helped me understand why i like some books so much : they're not making any mistakes and it creates an immersive , interesting and overall great reading experience . Thanks a lot !
A static world can definitely work amazingly for specific situations. In the game Hollow Knight, the kingdom of Hallownest has fallen, and nothing has changed since the “infection,” which devastated Hallownest. This static world works amazingly to make Hallownest feel forgotten and lifeless.
Thank you for this video. I literally just started my first draft of a fantasy series I’ve been developing in my head for around a decade now, and this will be a helpful guide for me as I write
I’ve only recently started writing and what I love to do is outline and leave parts open to have more imagination in. This has been great as I outline I leave it to be loose so that I can go and add a whole new idea and it’d be just fine.
Thanks for the videos, they’re helping me to write my first Fantasy novel. I hope one day I can get it published but for now I’m just enjoying the creation of the story I want to tell after decades of being just a reader.
Having as complete a history as possible is never a bad thing. It can open whole other plots and characters and give what you do have far more depth. You probably won't ever put all of it into your book, but they are there for you as the author. Plus, if some fan comes along and asks about something so vague and inconsequential most everyone doesn't care or totally missed it, and you as the author can give a concise and easy answer, then you are a Cool Author!
As someone who's interested in writing, but hasn't started yet, this was definitely interesting! I'm super interested in giving writing a try and world building is one of the things that interests me the most.
A really good example of avoiding 'trapped in present norms' is Roland from the Dark Tower series by Steven King. He just feels like he really belongs in that world, and it's accentuated so much more by how he interacts with the characters from our own world. It's great!
I am a person with adhd and someone who will daydream stories when i should be working on school and I've been wanting to write them down on paper or a document and share them with friends i have encountered many problems trying this so i eventually stumbled here than you mr Jed Herne for giving me a urge to actually try and solve those problems
I think for point 2, you could think of it like "horizontal vs. vertical" worldbuilding. As per your example, a person of a lower class wouldn't know much amount magic besides the basics, but they have a unique view of how society is organized, and maybe they despise floating islands because their family was destroyed when one fell. Every character can offer a horizontal slice of how the world is, and putting them together will tell you everything you need to know.
You know, i usually skip over sponsor bits, but gawddajm, i want that book! I can't afford that book by any stretch of the imagination, but i *really* want it!
I watch a lot of worldbuilding stuff---or listen to it, rather---as I write; I have been pretty unimpressed with most of it... it's either inapplicably general, or worthlessly specific: stuff like "worldbuilding tip #1: don't do it badly! for example, let's say you have a magic system built on the idea of absorbing special runes; in this case, make sure the runes have the correct angles between the vertical stems & horizontal extensions"... ...but these videos are actually useful & interesting. Thanks!
Many of these tips are very helpful to new writers, and many I learned the hard way during my years if practice, but in all my time writing I have discovered one very crucial part of building a believable world. A lot of writers do like to info dump whether they give a brief history lesson on certain places or people, of the main character explains everything that's going on to you or why it's happening, or (and most annoyingly) characters having a conversation and just casually info dumping everything they have no real reason to discuss because they already know and live in their world. If you want to build a good world learn to "drip-feed" it to the reader (similar to what Jed was talking about in the second mistake). Just tell your story and reveal certain plot points and crucial details whenever they're necessary. The reader might not have a full grasp on your world in the first or second chapter or maybe even the third, but that's okay. The reader is meant to not know in the beginning as they've just been introduced to your world and characters. They'll be eager to read through your book to find out more. Slowly build your world piece by piece from beginning to end. My stories have become all the better for it. I hope my inane rambling made sense.
My favorite thing to do about world building to avoid dumping too much info on the reader is taking Tolken's approach and basically writing my world's "bible"; basically just a book of the whole world and its creation and history and how it works. Not only is it nice for the readers who want to know more, but it's also a good guide for me, and a good way to sort out my thoughts so I dont leave any huge potholes or add something unnecessary
This is such a fascinating concept to me because I always felt like Tolkien said way too fucking much about Minor stuff in his stories like there was a whole chapter on gnome tobacco habits
I agree sooo much with point 6.. things have to change over the course of the story. Some natural disasters, some political uproar, some sort of societal shift, more technical innovations, if the story spans over years or decades, mabye even centuries or millenia. It's so important. I love the feeling, that i get when i reread a beloved story and i think to myself. "Oh yeah, things used to be like that, i remember"
Thanks for dropping this before the contest. I’ve already prepared my entries for rounds 1 & 2, now I just need to watch this, finish my final pitch, get a haircut, and record the videos. I appreciate you doing this contest at all, it’s reinvigorated my passion for my story again after I hit a rut 20K words in. Also, good luck to everyone else participating!!!
This was a really good video, thank you. Another point I would like to add, but this might be more about established lore already in the world as opposed to the actual world building. But it could apply to both. Is when someone writes something that blatantly goes against already established rules/laws in the world. And contradicts things already established
One good way to avoid "filling every gap", "parallel world building", and "boring info dumps" is to having initial chapters with isolated action or events. If you start your story with a short chapter on say a mage involved in a fight or conflict... you can skip all the world building and info dumps and just focus on the character and magic. Readers will be so engaged in the story and magic, they won't care if the explanation isn't complete and there is no context to the greater world. Chapter 1: A mysterious mage outside an inn suddenly consuming gems and using magic to ambush a courier is fine. Chapter 2: A noble lady overhearing how her father's position is in peril as the courier he sent off never returned and was carrying a secret which could ruin their household. Now you can work in local politics at the nobility level while ignoring magic (already established) or the history of the place. Again we don't care immediately about everything else, we're just worried for her over he house's issues. etc. The fact you don't know everything at every step is a bonus. It leaves more to discover.
As a young writer who only writes for fun, it was really interesting listening to the ninth mistake. When I first started writing, I had no clue how the world would look, the cultures, anything of the sorts. Then, I got to the point that I wanted to know everything that would happen in the next fifty pages before writing a paragraph. I often fluctuate on opposite sides of this spectrum.
Matt Colville had a really good tool for coming up with kingdoms, cities etc. Divide the population into groups based on their size. You'll have Dominant group that most likely is in charge or at least most represented in the area (example: a human settlement or city). The city was founded by human settlers some hundreds of years ago when they first came to the region. Then you have the largest minority (or minorities); the dwarves have slowly migrated to the city while working in the nearby mountain. They most likely have a permanent guild in the city and some political capital, "a seat at the table" because their presence brings riches to the rulers and commerce to the citizens. Next you'll have enclaves. Maybe some races or major religions represented by embassies or temples or a grove of wood elves/druids, who have taken interest in the area. They are probably few dozen members. You'll see them walking in the streets every day and they have some say in the districts they reside. Then there are smaller groups. Perhaps the nearby gnome settlement has set up a small trading post in the city with a permanent staff working to sell their inventions and jewels they bring from their own settlement a day's travel to east. Could also be members of some offshoot cult that found its way to the city five years ago. They most likely have little if none political power in the city. But in the case of the cult, this could change if nothing is done to it soon... Individuals represent usually very small groups, one or two people. These could be wandering merchants, some academics on a field study trip or monster hunters who pop by every now and then. You can see these people occasionally in the market place buying rations but they rarely care much about the city's business nor do they have influence over anyone in the city. Lastly, singular persons are exactly that: there is only one of them around in the city. We are talking about something like the last of the dragonborn (if dragonborn were almost extinct for whatever reason). Everyone knows the singular person and seeing that person on the street can be rare occasion but at the same time everyone knows who that person is, how good or bad they are and so on. These people can be irrelevant to the city's functions but also they can be extremely important. Maybe the singular person is a (friendly) lich. When the lich has something to say, the king, prince, duke, count, earl listens. Maybe people have marked their calendars because they know that the singular person comes to the city every second Tuesday to buy rations or mana bottles or something. And these can be effectively used to create almost anything, giving the readers (or players in a roleplaying session) quickly the overview of the area, the power balance and more. And it can be used for creature races, religions, cultures, political groups, technology levels, magic user types and their power levels, even flora and fauna.
I've found that writing really improves your studying.For example when i study business, i use the technique you showed of "LINKING CONCEPTS" when studying. So if I'd be studying a specific BUSINESS PRCATICE I'd study the History of that practice ,why it came to be and how that affects a business, while imagining the concepts as real life fantasy stories And perhaps its an obscure study method but it works for me to turn a subject into a story😅
Really insightful video, I really appreciate the input and it has sparked a few new ideas for me. Parallel Worldbuilding: The interesting thing about this, is that the rules work differently depending on the kind of book. I do agree that there should be a link between different aspects of the lore, but it's not always necessary as context is very important. I am in the middle of creating a TTRPG, in which, when people play the game, they have ALL the lore available to them through the handbook, but are able to pick and choose what they wish to include in their sessions. They can take the game mechanics and ignore the lore, or use the lore and go with a different set of mechanics, either way, the Game Master and players get to create their own world using the TTRPG as a base. However, if creating a story that isn't interactive, I agree that leaving in a lot of mystery (especially to start with) is an incredible tool for worldbuilding. Allowing the readers to connect with the characters of the story and discover their relationships and interactions with the world, sprinkling in lore here and there along the way, keeps a reader's attention. The same can be said when it comes to being a dungeon master / game master, as boring the players with lore dump won't make for a good experience. Readers or players need to have food for imagination and should be blown away with the twists and turns with a story that unravels over time.
I trunked a novel for entirely unrelated reasons, but sitting through this, I know there are some of these mistakes in there. The editing phase will be that much better guided. Thanks for the tips
Buddy, I'm going to tell you, I saw that thumbnail and said, "This guy better not tell me I can't have floating cities!" That being said I do a good job of sidestepping a lot of these problems. Cheers!
Been running the samw dnd campaignsince 2005. I created my first world ans been tieing in all thw different heros and collecting lore and map. To eventually write down and try and turn into stories for my own interest and i just discivered your channel ans feel like ill be here for a while
A couple good pieces of media I've experienced that avoided the "stuck in current norms": The video game Dragon Age Origins has several, but here's two: Dwarves that are very similar to how the Romans are described in that story: when a dwarf does something incredible (ex. one invented smokeless gunpowder, one led the building of continent-spanning underground roads to safely connect all dwarven cities) they become a Paragon and have statues built of them and are elevated to a status above even the current ruler, and have statues built of them and are remembered forever. Qunari, that are a group of disparate peoples that all follow the Qun - socio-religious teachings that determine most aspects of their lives, and they zealously hunt down any that dare defy it, but most Qunari are satisfied living within it. The anime movie Empire of Corpses is a sci-fi alternate history where alchemists in the 1800s figured out how to reanimate corpses as mostly mindless undead by injecting an equivalent amount of alchemical material equal in mass to the lost soul into the brain. Society changes completely compared to the real world, with corpses being mass reanimated and used for all manner of things: from manual labor like tending fields or loading and unloading warehouses, to entirely replacing all front line soldiers on warfronts with corpses, allowing the rich and powerful to wage full scale wars And society fully embraces it and enjoys the benefits: no more toiling at detestable manual labor jobs for the common living folk, no more living workers to pay wages to for manual labor jobs, no more casualties of war to abhor and get outraged at.
Thank you for your point about Objective Descriptions; I've always been told that my writing feels detached and dry when describing things, as if in-between character dialog there's just a third voice saying "Mount Doom in the Evil Bad Shadowlands exists over there. It is evil and gloomy and doomy and shadowy. It is the place of the great war where Good Guy McGoodguy killed the Demon Lord," as if I were dumping a wikipedia article in-between character interactions. I never really thought about describing things from the characters' perspective or only describe what the characters would care about or know.
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You leave my floating islands with waterfalls alone!
Culture is a dangerous thing to speak of these days.. just telling why and how brutal the world was, and would be without modern "rules" and "rule keepers" is just begging for cancelation.
@@Allan_Lugiamake one example. Pls. Just one franchise that was dark and gritty and got cancled. Usually the "unnecessary SJW stories" get cancled.
@@KiithNaabal a lote of hate on shadiversity's book, for describing a society who forces women to have sex(unbeknownst to the protagonist).
But it's something that has happened again, and again, even today in some countries...
And without ruling and gatekeeping would happen again multiple times in the future. (Which is a scary thought)..
And he (not only for that, but certainly also for this) gets Alot of hate for just describing a dark tendency in humen history thougout his book.
Not to mention how many movements there have been to try and change old movies, because they weren't appropriate.
And in my country multipe things have changed names because of this. Like the cream bun, which name was inappropriate.. so yes we can write about everything.. but not always everything, certainly not in a cultural perspektive.
unfortunalety, the 10% only works for the english version? : /
To bring up point one. One of my favorite things in LOTR is Tom Bombadil and when asked Tolkien replied, "I have no idea why he is there, he just is."
I always mention Tom Bombadil when I talk about the book to a person who has only seen the movies or if someone argues that ALL movie adaptations are worse than the original books...
@@nor4205 Tom Bomby will always be my favorite character
Yes. I have deep love for Tom Bombadil and Goldberry. Both spirits. And gold berry is the rivers daughter. And Tom is eldest. Older than even Gandalf.
Yes! Some things can just be there!
@@davidoliver7510 Do you think he could be the oldest creation of Illuvitar?
The worst example of an info-dump I ever came across was in a story where the main character wakes up to find his village under attack by bandits. He grabs his bow and runs outside, crouching down behind the wheel of a burning wagon to see what’s going on. The writer then started to tell me about the character and world. It was a real ‘You have to be kidding me!’ moment.
Only way I see that scene could work is if it went "Hi, I'm Legolas. You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation..."
I just ran a dnd session where the players ask the first person they talked to about the world. Since I wasn't sure how much info the character had access to. I rolled for insight, a litteral nat 20. As much as I didn't want to I info dumped a whole bunch of info about the multiple factions vying for power, the instability of the kingdom and the gang like affiliation system used to identify both allegiance and turncoats. I was atleast vague on the details a traveling merchant couldn't possibly know even if he gets a nat 20.
@@adamtideman4953 Thats the same situation but funnier transition. I don't want to transition from the action. Please keep the action going or dont start it in the first place :/
@@adamtideman4953if only you could make Baba O’Reilly by The Who start playing in a book
Dumbest take I've heard.
It sounded like the Romans were less interested in the past as much as they were with preserving the Republic. "Remember your ancestors" doesn't mean "Do whatever they did in the past" it meant "We already fought for a republic once; don't let it go to waste"
Great nuance
@@Jed_Herne I hope I won't be forgotten...
Agreed, I think our host here is slightly overinterpreting it. And I also think anyone who goes on Lex Friedmans podcast is a little suspect.
I write a lot of op-eds against an infrasteucture project in my home town, called Lynetteholm, and have often ended them by saying "Lynetteholm delenda est".
My reference there is older than between the two Brutuei(?) but I would laugh if a historian said that this means I was obsessed with the antique past on a personal level. (Or, I am a nerd, but not in like a spiritual sense)
@@nicholaswoollhead6830 What's wrong with Lex Fridman? Also, your example is kinda apples and oranges. Could someone use the deeds of an ancestor of yours from 500 years ago to compel you to betray and kill a friend of yours? Can you even name any ancestors of yours from 500 years ago and would their socio-political legacy matter to you even if you could? If not, then I think the anecdote is a good example of how deep those traditions ran with the Romans.
a better example would be, that the romans where so obsessed with the word king, that they came up with tons of different names meaning basically the same thing yet not the same thing, so that you were not called out as a king, and now we have all these different words in different languages, Tsar, Kaiser, Emperor, Dictator, Principes (First Citizen) etc.
This is why Tolkien and others have a separate document for the info dump. Worldbuild separately, then make it as a reference resource
Tolkien didnt publish any of his worldbuilding stuff in his lifetime, his son and grandson did that.
He seemed to hate people searching for lore outside of the fiction itself
@Rynewulf haha exactly! I would feel the same if anyone wanted to read my unstructured, unfunny, blocks of endless paragraphs that amounts to an insane timeline/dry history text book. BUT LET ME KEEP THAT.
Tbf, Tolkien's worldbuilding is of course a masterclass in linguistics itself. So I'm glad the heirs of Tolkien published it (if they hadn't, I bet oxford would have done the same and made it accessible as published diaries or letters available only upon academic request, beyond the public reach).
It's essentially the only way to ensure a well developed story. Most game devs, comic artists, and series showrunners have said in interviews in the past that whatever you see in their final product is barely 20% of what was brainstormed in pre-production. Some of the main characters were once just background furniture only to be upgraded to the forefront because there was something about them that just worked. Entire locations, events in history, characters, and plot points are sketched out, most never seeing their way into the product, or if they do, they are altered and used in other places. I've personally sketched out a world region, with places and cultures, outlining thousands of years of history, and the entire story that will actually make it into my final product will only be set in 5% of that map, with less than 10% of the characters involved, and after 95% of the events have already taken place, where the main character is mainly uncovering the mystery. A friend even laughed that I made enough plot for five games, but will only use enough to fill a short story. Not all of it is actually good. Some of it needs to be left out to make room for better narratives.
@leegaul2161 that's brilliant! I havent tried sketching or anything (not my forte) but that let's you do the drudge work for future entries
@Rhynewulf No, he didn't.... Tolkien planned to publish the silmarillion... He even pitched it to his publisher before LotR, they just werent interested.
11:50 That reminds of a scene in C. S. Lewis’s _Narnia: The Horse and His Boy_ where the main character had grown up in a fishing village. This was the description when he saw mountains for the first time: “Om the far side of it were huge blue things, lumpy but with jagged edges, and some of them with white tops.” Which feels like exactly how someone who has never seen them would describe mountains.
Reminds me of how I literally thought mountains were imaginary/fantasy until I went to Colorado as a kid 😂
@@naomistarlight6178Oh Ive felt that, and had the inverse of telling disbelieving people how flat, wet and near the sea everything is around here.
(And recently had a bad netflix sports thing show snowy mountains in the background of my area, when we almost dont even have mountains in the country)
So you think the character would not know that it is giant towering rock? Interesting. Maybe if he lived in a desert where there are no big rocks.
@@Tubalcain422not big rocks. Many coasts have huge rocks. Mountains aren't just an enormous rock. They are dirt and many, many rocks, some very small. I think if someone hadn't seen mountains before they might not understand them. Maybe not today with tv and movies. Today it would be difficult to grow up not exposed to many pictures of mountains.
@@naomistarlight6178 I feel the same way about flat things. How can something not be hilly?
I have no clue why UA-cam recommend this channel. I've never been interested in fantasy or writing, but now I am because of these videos!
Same😂
I have this theory I've been forming, that everyone wanted to tell stories at one point in their lives, but for some reason that want was hidden for some reason.
To this day, I have yet to meet someone who doesn't want to write in some capacity
> "Remember your ancestors..."
> "He and 23 other senators..."
I guess that makes Marcus Junius Brutus the original 23andMe?
I snorted at this
Yes. Why do you think is 23 the number most associated with hidden truth and conspiracy?
Sounds like the seeds to a cool story.
A person does a genealogy search which triggers, conveniently, 23 related people who have a historical connection. Throw in some Romeo and Juliet, toss in a touch of Hatfield and McCoy, and let the stew simmer...
Either 22 other senators or 60-ish or so other senators.
Caesar had 23 stab wounds inflicted upon him (one of them by Brutus), while there were about 60 known members of the conspiracy to remove Caesar from power.
I also don't like how this historian seems to not acknowledge any other motives Brutus might have had to act against Caesar, such as him being an optimate and having been a close friend to the arch-conservative Cato (the guy who rather disemboweled himself than live in a world with Caesar in power).
Also "friend" is not quite the right term when his mother was Caesar's mistress.
I'm a programming teacher. It seems the rules of not overwhelming the pupils also applies to fantasy. Also imagine a baby learning how reality works: first we have the MOM-context: mom is a smiling face giving you food and comfort, then the baby come to learn the arm-and-feet context, when not hungry and not asleep there are four funny things that you can wave, jerk around, touch things and grasp them. All knowledge acquisition should go outwards from situation to situation, so that the person conquers them one by one by testing and learning on how to achieve effects in that situation. There should be an entry point from one situation to the next one, so that things don't become overwhelmingly complex.
I think with programming, the biggest hurdle isn't the rules, but the terminology and lack of awareness of "why we do things" a.k.a. best-practices. Hence you only really learn both through trial-and-error and experience. Like, I still remember being a junior and not even knowing how to read documentation. Yeah.
So I think that might apply to fantasy writers (or any) too: They might see this advice (best-practices), but not fully understand it due to the terminology.
"All knowledge acquisition should go outwards" makes me think of Vygotsky's Zone of Proximal Development. I have found that to be a very simple, but shockingly effective, way to think about teaching any subject to any person. Sounds like you think in a very similar way. 😊
Cosmicism is easier for that because you try to overwhelm the cortexes and not the eyes
Yep. Some of the hardest bits of learning are encountering things you don't have many ins to. This can happen if you skipped steps... like I did a language immersion program, and never learned the language, so I went into like grade ten math barely having learned the prior several years (I passed, but that's about all), so there were significant gaps in my understanding that I needed to cross to get good results that others didn't.
Or I got very annoyed that I just felt like I had no idea about economics. Like, stuff would happen with policy or whatever, and I'd basically have no real opinion, because I knew I just didn't know anything about the subject. I'd read about it, but I'd basically just have to take things at face value. It took dozens of hours of reading about economics before things started to click over from "I know what this says, but I don't really understand" to feeling like I was starting to have a grasp of what I was reading about.
It's sort of like when learning to ride a bike, there's that first stage where you have no idea what's going on, then there's a stage where you know enough to make decisions about how to control the bike, but it's basically a very mentally active process that's prone to error, and then at some point it "clicks" and you can just ride the bike.
There's a gap between ignorance and knowledge, and then a similar gap between knowledge and understanding.
A great example is Iron Man.
He has built the Arc Reactor before in big and retained that knowledge.
And then he has to build it small enough for his chest.
As a weapons manufacturer and designer, he has the knowledge to build the first armed iron suit.
He builds on that with a better Arc Reactor and iron suit.
Iron suit fails due to icing and he reevaluates his options due to past de-icing solution of his military satellite (and later uses the same problem on the villain).
Equipping the iron suit in a pinch isn't feasible, so he manages to stuff a self-assembling iron suit into a suitcase.
Still too cumbersome, so he has his suit come to him.
Ultron introduces swarm tactics, so he takes that idea and makes it his own.
He builds on knowledge and failures.
Wow that first piece of advice is solid. I was always obsessed with filling the gaps of my world and lore, and realize that the enigma of the world begs readers to keep reading
I agree. I personally like to fill the gaps as well, but more for personal Knowledge. Readers don't necessarily have to know Everything I know. I can use my Knowledge when it's relevant. A good Example that explained this for me was from Another video about Magic Systems. The idea was that people are tempted to Lay out the full Magic System in their World. But by doing this, Magic becomes more like science than Magic. Magic is Magic because you can't explain Everything. People in your World might not know fully how it Works either. It's Supernatural even to them and that's why it Works.
The filled gaps are for you, the writer, to help you write your story not for the reader. That’s your secret between you and the reader that you gatekeep and you only pass out keys to the reader when they’re ready. But keep those details as they become useful to reference later!
@@Kayito_o the same way science can’t explain everything in our world and kills the fun.
Had a hard time letting go of that habit of filling the gap. It’s like I want the reader to have all the info at once 😅 might have to re write a few of my early chapters who had too many info dumps. Sometimes it’s best to let the reader enter your world with many questions , wich could or could not be answered(that’s why you make sequels or lexicon at the end of the book)
It's fine if the author knows or not. Sapkowski and Toriyama didn't. Sanderson does. Both approaches work just dont overwhelm the reader
I really wish i had a writing class like this when i was a kid. I remember completely missing the mark on a writing assignment because it was just a massive info dump and it had no plot. But instead of cultuvating that imaganation and desire to world build, it was like "no this is wrong. you need to start over"
Re: point 5:
I mean, third person omniscient is a valid writing perspective - though if it suddenly pops up in what's otherwise third person limited, then yeah, that could be a problem.
Depends. Some writers (Orson Scott Card especially) use chapter openings to write from unique perspectives to give understanding that viewpoint characters either don't have or wouldn't make sense to give. Usually the perspective is of a character, but the concept extends to whatever you'd like.
The thing is you've got to be consistent with it. If your chapters are heft enough, and you do it every chapter, the reader gets into a certain cadence that can even draw them deeper into the story. Doing it at random can have the opposite effect.
I personally like opening a chapter with a poem in omniscient perspective that either clarifies something important in the previous chapter, or foreshadows something coming in the next chapter.
Good Omens has passages written in third person omniscient, and it works GREAT because the narrator is literally god lol.
I agree. Take the writings of Lord Dunsany, HP Lovecraft, even Tolkien himself, there are passages and entire stories of objective descriptions. It depends on how it is done. I think specifically limiting descriptions to only POV-subjective based, can feel contrived. There are how characters see things, but, also, how things objectively are in a world. So, it would make more sense to have objective descriptions of a world interacting with character subjective descriptions of it. Both should organically occur in a story.
I sometimes give an existing personality to the 3rd person omniscient view. Personality from a certain character featured in that chapter, usually by the end of the paragraph, like a bit of quip, optimistic or pessimistic remark about certain things that happen in that chapter.
I occasionally use third person omniscient when there is no other way to convey information that is necessary, or I would need to add something boring as an excuse to introduce the element the audience needs to know. Sometimes it's better to keep the flow of the story and throw it in sparingly.
The deer hunting example reminds me of something I’m currently writing in a story, in which a king’s brother jumps on the back of a large boar to try and kill it while it’s injured. It’s unsafe, but I choose to treat that as a character moment that proves how reckless and wild he is. The other characters admonish him for it, too.
This is almost like Hans Capon from Kingdom Come Deliverance lmao.
Characters doing stupid is an important part of story. It just needs to be identified as stupid.
Tad Williams did terrible logistics in MS&T but most of us dont know enough to even realize it
@@specialnewb9821 Who?
@lancenwokeji6349 Tad Williams writer of Otherland and Memory Sorrow and Thorn. Excellent fantasy author. Excels at giving characters their own voice and tying together 100 story threads into an insane conclusion. Also likes to use dream imagery.
GRRM once met him at a convention while he was writing Memory Sorrow and Thorn and demanded that he HURRY UP AND FINISH. It was that series that made him believe that a story like ASoIaF could succeed.
One trick I use is to ask myself "why did I include that?" It just helps me conceptualise what the characters are doing to their environment or what the environment is doing to the characters.
On the topic of Roman cultural norms, they had some really fascinating ones. Like, they were obsessed with the idea of how important it was to use your own words - any profession that required people to use somebody else's words (actor, public herald, etc.) would be a very low-status profession, and it would have been scandalous for a politician to have speechwriters, they way that they all do now.
Studying history in real depth is great for world-building, because you get a ton of examples of wildly different societies that were nevertheless real ways that humans can live.
It’s funny because whilst there were things in Roman culture that we’d look at as barbaric now, this idea about owning the words you say would probably be a really good thing to bring back to the modern day
A really interesting thing is that I've heard them described as almost deathly afraid of kings, to the point that anyone who tried to gather too much power would likely be killed, and even when they had Emperors, they'd be kept in check, to a degree. Notice how no one ever called themselves a king, because that would guarantee that you'd be deposed, and killed.
My favorite example of bad logistics is the Kaminoans from Star Wars's Bad Batch. There is no reason why they wouldn't back up Jango's DNA. Not only is DNA everywhere, but it can be digitized, and probably needs to be so for the cloning process. As a bio-informatitian, this broke the immersion for me.
Ah. Yeah, I can see that but my disenchantment came from the over saturation of gimmick aliens and tree houses for bucktooth teddy bears. Return of the Jedi was sadly only the beginning of the end.
Another example is Star Trek redoing the periodic table in "Rascals" - I didn't see the episode, but a "Transonic" series of elements? Do your research, the periodic table is everywhere…
You can't use Star Wars because those things have been fucked three ways this Sunday
@@RediTtora What do you mean?
@@benjystrauss2524 well besides the fact that there have been so many writers, there's been a lot of retconning and ignoring of stuff in the more recent years because Disney basically said fuck the books established Galore
Point 3 makes me think of Dragon Age: Veilguard. Classic High-Fantasy setting, but the writers could only see it from a modern viewpoint: Modern jargon and vernacular; modern sarcastic, quippy dialogue; and strange things like a pirate guild that doesn't actually steal or pillage???
Same thing with Transformers One. The modern slang and mode of speech killed it for me (along with no modulation on their voices so they just sound like.... people, and not giant robots). Don't even get me started on Failguard and the other DEI slop flops of 2024
Awful, awful game from a writing perspective. My goodness, it felt like satire!
TO THE T!
As a writer, I wanted to quickly give my most sincere thanks for content creators like yourself who share your knowledge and experiences. It made being a writer possible for me. I don't have the money, or the time, to pursue a formal education in creative writing. Videos like this are my classroom. Thank you!
I'm glad it's been helpful!
@@Jed_Hernefor parallel worldbuilding you (basically) word for word described the basic plot of the war eternal by Rob Hayes. Was that on purpose?
Logistics is my biggest obstacle in writing
Michael Ende in "Neverending Story" (not the movie) has the phrase "But this is a different story and shall be told at another time." spread out numerous times over his novel. The second part of the book is actually all about world building, because Bastian has to literally build the world anew and gets tangled up in the outcomes of his worldbuilding.
That sounds interesting, I haven't been able to find the book in English
@@naomistarlight6178 Penguin books has the Neverending Story in the "Puffin Clothbound Classics" edition. Another edition is from Dutton Books for Young Readers.
It's always good to see someone understanding what The Neverending Story is about.
I wanna add my two cents as an aspiring writer. I've written almost three novels, so far, and I’m working on several others.
1. Trying to fill every gap
Mystery is such an effective, compelling tool that captivates and draws a lot of readers (or viewers/listeners, depending on the medium). This also gives writers some freedom to make adjustments to their worlds as they write and build and flush! I totally agree here.
2. Parallel worldbuilding
I partially agree with this one. I do think that “parallel worldbuilding” can actually be a good thing if done properly, but this might be a bit difficult, especially for less-experienced authors (including me!).
3. Trapped in present norms
This is one of the toughest ones for me. I often find myself writing my characters as a bit too “contemporary.” My stories often have a more tongue-in-cheek attitude, which can make managing this slightly more challenging since you want to connect with the audiences of today and tomorrow. I’m hoping to get better at this as I write more.
4. Not writing convincing logistics
This can be a bit tricky, but fortunately we live in the age of the internet. It’s generally not difficult to learn A LOT about a subject and to even get details fact-checked in your story by people who are extremely knowledgeable in what you’re writing about. I’d say this resource is such a valuable tool that should definitely be taken advantage of.
5. Objective descriptions
Not every story needs this. I agree that it can totally enhance an immersive experience and conveyance of character and environment, but this approach isn’t a demand of all stories. I like it, though, and try to use this when I can in my stories.
Of course, if a story is written in first-person, then this should totally be used. In third-person, it really depends on style and intent.
6. Static world
I really like this one. In the stories that I write I try to make certain events slowly change broad areas and a couple of really big events change entire continents. This is a fun writing tool to play with for sure.
7. Boring infodumps
I do think there are ways to write interesting infodumps, but you want to avoid droning on and on. And yeah, boring info dumps whether they’re short or long are… well, boring. It’s also generally just more fun to not dump information but to provide it slowly over time as it’s wanted/needed.
8. Cultural monoliths
I agree with this. I’m generally not a fan of the “elves and orcs” fantasy worlds (excluding Tolkien), but it’s not nearly so bad if there’s well-written diversity in these races (which, funnily enough, Tolkien didn’t really do!). HOWEVER, with our modern culture, I feel that some people see this as an opportunity to insert their agenda and shoehorn politics and current social commentary into their story in a jarring, inelegant way.
The point can be taken too far, too, though. In real life, we only have humans as examples. Elves and orcs (just as very simple examples) should have a different form of diversity than we do. Otherwise, they’re basically just humans who look a bit different. I feel like over-homogenization of races could have actually made this list, too.
9. Feeling like you need to know everything
I found this a little amusing, actually. I love building the world as I write. Like you, I tend to outline and define a lot about my world(s) before I begin writing, but I’m sort of reading and learning about my story as I write. That makes it more exciting for me, too!
I didn’t plan on writing this much. But I found this really fun and a nice thought experiment. I liked your list and it gave me stuff to think about. Thanks!
Gonna check out more of your videos for sure. Hopefully I won’t spend so much time writing any more long comments, though. haha
No, no, please do write more long comments like this! I enjoyed reading this comment and both my friend and I found a good bit of value to your words!
I teach creative writing in high school. Avoiding objective descriptions is a great point I don’t hammer much, but will now. It both makes the world and narrative feel more realistic, and also provides important characterization via narration.
I think a lot of this came from reading Tolkien as kids but Tolkien regularly uses Gandalf or Elrond or Aragorn to describe things to the hobbits. An Angel, an ancient Elf who was THERE when it happened or one of the most well educated Men in Middle Earth.
He pnly gives tiny bit of info when a character like that is not there (like at the crossroads, or discussing the Barrow downs mound in the appendices not the story).
8:50 Another example of this, from a musician's perspective, is a small book I dropped that didn't understand instruments. They had a whole page or two describing the band "Dragging bows across their trumpets", "playing a whole song in one breathe on their violin" - stuff that makes zero sense to anyone with basic music knowledge.
Or even in movies when they have live diegetic music and the mix includes instruments that aren't even there
Also even in a woodwind or brass instrument you do breathe into, one breath for an entire song makes no sense. I play clarinet. Instruments mostly need a whole hell of a lot of breath per note. There's no way you'd get out more than a few notes. Just stretches my suspension of disbelief too much, even if it were the right type of instrument.
Honestly that sounds like it must have been a joke, satire. I sincerely doubt that someone who knows enough about a trumpet or violin to even mention it has not also seen how it’s played. Seems like that author may have been cheeky, or trying to convey something about the ineptitude of those musicians.
That im my book dound like a AI author, as someome before said, no resonable person mix up things that Hard.
Great video Jed, number 1 really is so important, and it ties into something else that is important as well, trust that your readers can understand without having every little thing spelled out to them.
I've gotten feedback on my first chapter from a tiny handful of strangers and this seemed to be something people were incapable of considering. It was weird. I was giving details where you read between the lines and people are like, explain more! I'm just sitting here like... explaining more is not the point!! Use your deductive reasoning skills!!
@@Aeras89 The day will come where a reader gets it, and they'll be your biggest fan. Keep it up!
@@t3amtomahawk There were some who understood the assignment. It was a huge relief cause I was like... am I writing this shittily or do these guys just suck at reading between the lines?? 🤣😭
Just noticed how in your bookshelves, you have them with spine facing outwards, exept for the books you authored, which have their front cover facing out instead. Gotta say, nice little easter egg lol
It's called "product placemente" hahaha
Dune is also cover-outwards, but yes, haha
I just started to write my book, and your list has already pointed out a couple problems I have. Thank you for doing this video. I never had much confidence, but I love how you are not just explaining, but give examples.
When you described your initial hunting scene, I was immediately taken aback by how unrealistic it was. That was an excellent use of a mistake to teach others. Thanks!
About trapped in present norms, that was one of my biggest gripes with Aragon. Despite being a kid living with his poor blacksmith uncle, the MC's living conditions and morning routine had little difference from a kid in Midwest America.
The image of the floating citadel with the waterfalls in the sunshine comes to mind. Where tf does all the damn water come from? Does the citadel have a portal to the Elemental Water Realm somewhere? Are the waterfalls all an illusion? It certainly looks cool as a fantasy dreamscape, but you open some serious opportunities for ruining your suspension of disbelief.
The point about being trapped in present norms is one of my biggest issues with modern story telling. So many movies just rehash the news of the day.
My favorite loredump style is from the Wheel of Time novel. Robert Jordan's loredumps were always so simple and easy to digest and fitted into the current events of the story, without holding it back.
Yeah he did a pretty good job of that between talking about dresses.
@@samuelferrell9257some else mentioned how he goes on and on about dresses! 😮
@@samuelferrell9257not talking about dresses, talking about smoothing dresses.
Ah yes, that's right. I seem to remember a lot of tugging on braids too? 🤔
That's funny you say that because multiple times in those books you could skip a whole chapter and not lose any of the story
Damn early, good to be watching this as I'm working on my entry for your worldbuilding competition too lol
Good luck!
Yep, I wish I had watched this before I submitted.
Worldbuilding competition? I hope I am not too late for that.
@@TheDoomKnightI think you have until 13th December (if I remember correctly).
@@tomjoyce7037But the competition is just a pitch for the concept of the world, most of the points brought up in this video are how to approach it narratively
A thing i've noticed that i'm doing a lot with my world building, is that many of the cultures i present are in the middle of some revolutionary change, or at a pivotal moment regarding their prosperity etc.
I don't know why, but i just find it exciting to throw my characters into a shaky foundation.
The world is never static, hence why. There's a coup, a natural catastrophe, a civil war, a famine, an emigration crisis, an immigration crisis, a political protest, etc. happening all around the world at any given time. Most of the world lives on a shaky foundation and even a utopia would be rifed with problems. That's conflict. That's drama. That's interesting.
Thanks
As an amateur, who wants to become a good writer, and who is still in school and knows absolutely nothing about how to build a fantasy world or how to probably write, I often feel lost at where and how I begin to learn. Especially when all of my time goes to learning other things. Even though a lot of scenes, characters and ideas flutters in my head the idea of actually writing it often gets me so demotivated that I don't write -- even though I desperately want to. I feel like it becomes a battle between what I want to do, and what I actually can (or cannot) do.
But then I watch one of your videos, and you explain things so well! Your explanations and your obvious passion rubs off, and suddenly it all gets a bit easier. Thank you so much for this! It is such a big help. I'm not sure if you have a video for people like me who often feels demotivated, but I would love some advice if you have any, because I want to create these stories, but it's just too difficult sometimes.
Again thanks a lot for all these amazing videos and everything!
I remember being a little like this, in the sense that I was reluctant to put pen to paper unless what came out was worth keeping. But the truth is, a lot of the value from writing comes from the process itself, just getting it out there. That stays with you - you learn something, even if you throw the whole draft away. Resist the temptation to be precious about making it good first time, just write some words and see where it takes you. It might be mostly crap; but it's never wasted time. And you can keep anything you like; there'll be time for editing tomorrow.
@Novodantis I will remember this thank you! I guess I am a perfectionist, which sometimes keeps me from doing things because I fear failure or something that isn't as perfect as I imagined it. But I will keep this in mind, and hopefully continue for a long long time. I am full of ambitions, but I will make sure to never let those ambitions stand in my way of growing and learning. (:
The first step is to read. Generally speaking, at some point you will feel like "this is really cool, I wonder what would happen if the story went like this instead?" and there comes the impetus to write.
Then you have to write. It's going to be bad, but until you've written, you don't know about writing. It's only once you've got some experience writing that you will be better able to analyze what other writers are doing when you read, and be able to take advantage of learning about the craft of writing.
I'd also encourage an iterative view of creation. You're not writing the finished product, you're writing the first draft. If it's bad, you can try again.
There's also an idea that's put most succinctly about drawing, that goes something like: "everyone has a thousand bad drawings in them, and it's only after you draw them that you'll start to draw kind of okay drawings." Basically, you're going to be bad at things when you start. Sucking is part of the process. No amount of agonizing over it is going to let you avoid sucking.
In my book, I actually used an infodump to my advantage. My main character was being thrust into his first tutoring lesson alongside several other established students, and the tutor started to grill the students about various political and geographical things, allowing me to basically dumb a lot of reader interest information into the text, while at the same time having my main character panicking about how many terms and names were being thrust upon him in a matter of minutes.
I did a bit where the characters were going through tutorial videos, getting small tidbits about how the shields work on their ship (which they stole), weapons, etc, and getting frustrated because they're trying to figure out how to lock the doors for privacy. It's a sci-fi story, granted, but I still thought it made for a funny scene.
Debating on an edit going back and poking fun at the 'as you all know' trope and having a video go "Doors function as a way to partition a space" and the character getting super exasperated and go "I KNOW WHAT A DOOR IS TELL ME HOW TO LOCK IT"
@@trekkie1701c That sounds hilarious.
@@trekkie1701c Lmao that’s great
Reminds me a bit of that part in the beginning of Fourth Wing where Mc recites her nation’s history to herself to calm her down while being in a life or death situation. I didn’t really retain much of the info dumped but I still thought it was a pretty nice way of info dumping (especially since she’s a passionate scribe, so it tells us something about her character as well)
if i may, i think point 5 should also take into consideration WHAT the reason for the character being there is.
true, a thief would look for "targets" but, if he got into the inn to avoid being captured, he would look for a place to hide. likewise, if he just got into town after a few days of travel, he might subconsciously pay more attention to the smell of food or to where the most "comfy looking seat" is
So I bought The Thunder Heist- finished it today. And oh my God. I've always been a bit of a skeptic on whether his advice works, but it TOTALLY DOES. Without spoiling, the ending was so well built up, I want to know more about Prowlerak, and what Gabine did to earn herself the death sentence. Would highly recommend. Keep up the good work
Yo I almost forgot about that place even though I read the book. They sounded evil asf I want to see more of them. I want to know more about them and Kef’s crew too.
Thanks for the kind words! I'm glad you enjoyed it. At this stage, the plan is to return to the Twisted Seas once I've finished my current project (the sequel to Kingdom of Dragons).
@@Jed_Hernejust found your channel mate, is there any chance there will be any audiobooks on audible? I saw you only had one so far but written several so was wondering if more are coming!
Don't get me wrong just one audiobook is still huge!
I’m not gonna spoil anything, but you should read The Sailor’s Gambit if you want to see more of Prowlerak. It’s a prequel novella set in the Twisted Seas universe that follows Kef on an adventure. It’s a quick read and I think you’ll like it if you enjoyed The Thunder Heist.
I didn't know there was a prequel. I'll check it out
1:38 Good, we're on the same page. Was scared for a sec. I like knowing the "truth", and the percieved truths, even if the audience doesn't know. Helps me stay consistent, the roots that determine the leaves.
I think you've saved me from wasting my time. I was just embarking on a huge writing project I've been mapping out. Having watched your video I realise I will never be able to match people's expectations. I'm going to to just delete it all and go back to punching the clock. Thank you.
The biggest thing I learned about worldbuilding is we usually apprach it backwards. I was admiring the mystery that Horizon Zero Dawn is built around and trying to figure out how to do something even a fraction thst powerful myself. I even searched for tips to create mystery which mostly went nowhere. Eventually I figured out its not about creating mystery, it's about having the discipline not to sabotage the mystery. Most writers who created as interesting a concept for their world would be eager to share it with the audience ASAP. "In te not too distant future, self-replicating machines were created, then so now you play as a hunter in a post-postapocalyptic world populated by machines!" Which sure it's a cool concept but it cuts the throat of the setting's opportunity to offer a deep mystery to unravel. Instead they showed us just enough to hook us but kept all the awesome stuff hidden, and the mystery just happens. And some great writing makes it pop of course!
I would like to add that not only is the world-building backwards, it's not taking any steps forward. We're not specific enough.
Honestly, I think the mystery in Horizon Zero Dawn is... anticlimactic and self-sabotaged from the get-go due to them treating literally everything as a grand mystery revelation.
SPOILERS BELOW
Let me ask you, when you learned in the "twist" the machines are actually terraformers, did you go "Yoooooo holy shiiiiiiiiiit?!?!?!"?
I doubt it. You probably went "Oh neat, that makes sense, I guess." It's not a factoid that changes how you see the world. And terraforming? That's a pretty boring and vanilla purpose for the machines. It's right up there with "to kill all humans/life" for robots.
Now imagine if instead of that being the big twist of the entire game, knowing the purpose of the machines is terraforming is common knowledge. It's not a mystery at all and the tribes actively USE the machines to terraform their landscapes. THIS would explain how they've been able to build grand cities and such despite having stone-age technology and wisdom.
Instead, the mystery is now solely about WHY the robots are terraforming and why they're animalistic. I think now the mystery is more focused on far more interesting questions and keeps the player/viewer engaged in things that won't have anti-climactic reveals to. And personally, the question of "what is the purpose of the machines?" isn't as compelling as "why were they created for that purpose?"
@jesustyronechrist2330 lol it's worse than that. There were some quests I hadn't completed so after the reveal about what the project was I want back to do them before passing the point of no return. And then without the mystery motivating me, I DNFed the game lol.
But at the same time, it seems pretty obvious they are terraforming. I certainly never got the feeling from the worldbuilding and gameplay that the animal-like robots were the bad guys in the story.
I'd say though, that a mystery doesn't have to be great to motivate the audience. I was pretty sure what the project was for a long time. There weren't a lot of options available, especially given the clue of the post apoc game world. It's kinda the real world of the Matrix just not as ugly. But fiction doesn't have to be the greatest thing ever as long as it's decently well written, reasonably interesting to read, and gives a sense of progression, and fresh enoughnot to be a chore.
The other thing is the most comortably fun thing to read, watch, or play is something that's like 90% derivative, based on what we already like, but just fresh enough to be interesting. And that's what's going to reach a mass audience. There is a thrill to finding something that feels really original though. Those tend to be more niche thpugh.
I'm very sceptical of stories that rely too much on plot twists and mystery boxes. Unless the anticipation towards the twist you already know is as good as the surprise, the story works exactly once.
It's funny you mention Horizon because I immediately thought of that game when this video talked about "trapped in present norms".
I think the main character, Aloy suffers from this. We see that she was raised in isolation by one guy who acts very serious all the time. So why does Aloy act like a Gen Z teen when she gets older? Where did she get her sense of humor? Those things aren't genetic. She doesn't act anything like someone who grew up in that world. It completely took me out of the story.
I think it would have been a better idea to make her more naive and curious like Ariel from The Little Mermaid rather than a copy of Ellie from The Last of Us which also had the same "trapped in present norms" problem.
@KilledByKangaroo dunno. I have no idea what a gen z teen acts like. I was a Gen X teen who grew up in the woods with very limited social contact until I was 12, and only very spradic access to TV until I was 17. Homeschooled, one brother, occasionally visiting a few other homeschool kids 2 miles away, and cousins a few times per year being my only contact with other kids, and I didn't notice anything that seemed alien about her actions.
More broadly though, the range of ondividual personality variation is vast. There are individuals we have recods of in various times in history whose attitudes could be seen as anachronistic if they weren't historical figures. One can't really say any individual's attitudes are anachronistic, only if the overall culture is.
So this was a crazy recommendation to get, as I am just finally reaching the final editing stages of my first book. I was actually expecting this to just completely destroy all my progress by telling me I did everything wrong. But I really enjoyed how you explained everything without this becoming a 1 hour video, and how most of this didn’t just explain how things were wrong, but also how to correct those things.
This is great information when writing a fictional play too when run-time is an element to constantly consider.
this is literally the first sponsership that completely sold me on a product
I stumbled on to avoiding most of these mistakes because I usually kept the backstory in my head as to *why* something was a certain way, but only mentioned it if it was necessary at that moment to the reader. This also gives me the flexibility to change something if a better idea comes along to modify it, and I'm not contradicting something I wrote.
I am so glad I came across you I am writing a story and all the world building videos are about d&d. It’s really annoying that I can never find an author in this field. TYSM
10:32
"In most cases you should not be trying to write a guide book that objectively describes your world. You are writing about a character's subjective experience of that world." I think this applies to Sci-Fi as well and is why I had such a problem with the Three Body Problem trilogy, and *especially* Death's End. There are pages upon pages upon pages of "This happened, and then this happened and then this happened which caused this nation to respond like this and then they did this" and it's like man I don't care about any of this because I'm not seeing how this impacts our characters in any way whatsoever.
Yeah, I have very conflicting opinions about the Three Body Problem; on the other hand, the good parts were superb, you know, the moments when the story actually progressed and there happened something. But then the other half of the books were so boring exposition and info dumbs that I was almost rotting by brains out. They are still good books, especially the last one is awesome, and I do recommend them, but don't really worry about skipping a boring page or two, honestly. You'll know when the story picks up again.
@ my favorite example of pointless exposition was during Dark Forest when that wall facer spends like 2 hours talking about this complex dead man’s switch that he developed to destroy New York, and went into crazy detail about it, only to get on a helicopter and immediately tell someone “oh yeah I was just lying”
This is going to help me massively. I only started writing in January 2024. I have seen an improvement already, but I need to keep writing, keep learning, keep integrating advice out there into my craft and I hope to have something that will hold up against a very critical industry. I can't wait to find out the prospect of what the future might think about my future story telling.
That last tip, hit the my main problem with my writing. I love adding details and lore I'd want to bring up and use in other stories of this world, but I havent't even finished the first story.
That is another mistake new writers make, and it's an easy trap to fall into. The biggest drawback is that you can paint yourself into a corner without a way out if your world building is too detailed.
This is acctuality a good video.👍🏻 Good job.
This "know your real world stuff" - advice to fantasy writers feels so basic, but it isn't spoken about NEARLY enough. Tolkien wasn't able to write one of the best stories ever written because he was "talented" or "allowed himself to write what he felt like" or "had an amazing technique no one has been able to recreate". No, Tolkien was able to write his masterwork because he had a long lifetime's worth of real world experience and knowledge. He studied literature, linguistics, mythology, folklore, theology and history for his entire life. He also fought in a world war. Tolkien's wealth of knowledge and INSIGHT into real things gave him the edge he needed to write a book no one has been able to surpass since. At least, not in the genre he began.
This like most of your videos was mad helpful. Keep up the great work.
Been thinking of writing my own story for a while now, I’ll take this advice to heart and do my best, thank you! 🙏
I've never been gotten by a youtube advertisement before, but, I just bought that book cause it looks awesome, thanks for 10% off
You have NO IDEA how excited I was to see Greg Aldrete show up in your video. He was one of my professors in college, who I had for an Intro to Western Civilization course. For Halloween my freshman year, I walked in dressed up as him (jeans, tennis shoes, button down shirt, suit coat, glasses). I had the entire class of 300 people go silent like I was about to start class. Professor Aldrete walks in and goes to start class, and looks right at me in front row, completely losing his train of thought.
😂 that’s hilarious!
This was great to listen to! It helped as a gauge to make sure I'm going the right direction with my writing and It is encouraging to know that I avoided most, if not all of these. Thank you for the advice!
I'm a video game storywriter/designer, and this helps with this as well, not just novels. Playable versus Text, it doesn't matter, worldbuilding is amazing and this was really helpful
Man I’m glad I found this channel. As a freshly beginning fantasy writer, I’m finding this advice very helpful. Keep up the good work. Also to anyone curious, the name for my series is The Tales of Midistria.
I've never been interested in writing anything , but this video helped me understand why i like some books so much : they're not making any mistakes and it creates an immersive , interesting and overall great reading experience . Thanks a lot !
A static world can definitely work amazingly for specific situations. In the game Hollow Knight, the kingdom of Hallownest has fallen, and nothing has changed since the “infection,” which devastated Hallownest. This static world works amazingly to make Hallownest feel forgotten and lifeless.
I made these mistakes, i didn't know they were "mistakes" thank you very much 😭
Mistakes r fine as long as u do em right
Just happy little accidents
This is really good, helpful end well-structured advice. Thank you.
Hey - I've got that Rebuilding Civilisation book - great resource for getting a quick idea of "How Stuff Works" enough to avoid rookie mistakes.
Thank you for this video. I literally just started my first draft of a fantasy series I’ve been developing in my head for around a decade now, and this will be a helpful guide for me as I write
I’ve only recently started writing and what I love to do is outline and leave parts open to have more imagination in. This has been great as I outline I leave it to be loose so that I can go and add a whole new idea and it’d be just fine.
Brilliant video, just in time for the world building competition!
An amazing man, I hate literally everything he offers as a substitute, but generally agree with the list of mistakes. It's amazing how he does it.
Thanks for the videos, they’re helping me to write my first Fantasy novel. I hope one day I can get it published but for now I’m just enjoying the creation of the story I want to tell after decades of being just a reader.
Thank you for bringing these up! I've wanted to start writing books but didn't know exactly how to world build
This guy always has amazing writing advice, best on UA-cam.
Having as complete a history as possible is never a bad thing. It can open whole other plots and characters and give what you do have far more depth. You probably won't ever put all of it into your book, but they are there for you as the author. Plus, if some fan comes along and asks about something so vague and inconsequential most everyone doesn't care or totally missed it, and you as the author can give a concise and easy answer, then you are a Cool Author!
Wow, a sponsor that for once I didn't feel compelled to skip, it actually... fit, it worked!
As someone who's interested in writing, but hasn't started yet, this was definitely interesting! I'm super interested in giving writing a try and world building is one of the things that interests me the most.
A really good example of avoiding 'trapped in present norms' is Roland from the Dark Tower series by Steven King. He just feels like he really belongs in that world, and it's accentuated so much more by how he interacts with the characters from our own world. It's great!
I am a person with adhd and someone who will daydream stories when i should be working on school and I've been wanting to write them down on paper or a document and share them with friends i have encountered many problems trying this so i eventually stumbled here than you mr Jed Herne for giving me a urge to actually try and solve those problems
I think for point 2, you could think of it like "horizontal vs. vertical" worldbuilding. As per your example, a person of a lower class wouldn't know much amount magic besides the basics, but they have a unique view of how society is organized, and maybe they despise floating islands because their family was destroyed when one fell. Every character can offer a horizontal slice of how the world is, and putting them together will tell you everything you need to know.
6:32 = Basically the elivator pitch of one of my books. Great video Jed! Blessings!
You know, i usually skip over sponsor bits, but gawddajm, i want that book!
I can't afford that book by any stretch of the imagination, but i *really* want it!
I watch a lot of worldbuilding stuff---or listen to it, rather---as I write; I have been pretty unimpressed with most of it... it's either inapplicably general, or worthlessly specific: stuff like "worldbuilding tip #1: don't do it badly! for example, let's say you have a magic system built on the idea of absorbing special runes; in this case, make sure the runes have the correct angles between the vertical stems & horizontal extensions"...
...but these videos are actually useful & interesting. Thanks!
Many of these tips are very helpful to new writers, and many I learned the hard way during my years if practice, but in all my time writing I have discovered one very crucial part of building a believable world. A lot of writers do like to info dump whether they give a brief history lesson on certain places or people, of the main character explains everything that's going on to you or why it's happening, or (and most annoyingly) characters having a conversation and just casually info dumping everything they have no real reason to discuss because they already know and live in their world. If you want to build a good world learn to "drip-feed" it to the reader (similar to what Jed was talking about in the second mistake). Just tell your story and reveal certain plot points and crucial details whenever they're necessary. The reader might not have a full grasp on your world in the first or second chapter or maybe even the third, but that's okay. The reader is meant to not know in the beginning as they've just been introduced to your world and characters. They'll be eager to read through your book to find out more. Slowly build your world piece by piece from beginning to end. My stories have become all the better for it. I hope my inane rambling made sense.
My favorite thing to do about world building to avoid dumping too much info on the reader is taking Tolken's approach and basically writing my world's "bible"; basically just a book of the whole world and its creation and history and how it works.
Not only is it nice for the readers who want to know more, but it's also a good guide for me, and a good way to sort out my thoughts so I dont leave any huge potholes or add something unnecessary
This is such a fascinating concept to me because I always felt like Tolkien said way too fucking much about Minor stuff in his stories like there was a whole chapter on gnome tobacco habits
I agree sooo much with point 6.. things have to change over the course of the story. Some natural disasters, some political uproar, some sort of societal shift, more technical innovations, if the story spans over years or decades, mabye even centuries or millenia. It's so important. I love the feeling, that i get when i reread a beloved story and i think to myself. "Oh yeah, things used to be like that, i remember"
This was incredibly educational for new novel writers like me, thank you so much.
Thanks for dropping this before the contest. I’ve already prepared my entries for rounds 1 & 2, now I just need to watch this, finish my final pitch, get a haircut, and record the videos. I appreciate you doing this contest at all, it’s reinvigorated my passion for my story again after I hit a rut 20K words in. Also, good luck to everyone else participating!!!
This was a really good video, thank you. Another point I would like to add, but this might be more about established lore already in the world as opposed to the actual world building. But it could apply to both. Is when someone writes something that blatantly goes against already established rules/laws in the world. And contradicts things already established
One good way to avoid "filling every gap", "parallel world building", and "boring info dumps" is to having initial chapters with isolated action or events. If you start your story with a short chapter on say a mage involved in a fight or conflict... you can skip all the world building and info dumps and just focus on the character and magic. Readers will be so engaged in the story and magic, they won't care if the explanation isn't complete and there is no context to the greater world.
Chapter 1: A mysterious mage outside an inn suddenly consuming gems and using magic to ambush a courier is fine.
Chapter 2: A noble lady overhearing how her father's position is in peril as the courier he sent off never returned and was carrying a secret which could ruin their household. Now you can work in local politics at the nobility level while ignoring magic (already established) or the history of the place. Again we don't care immediately about everything else, we're just worried for her over he house's issues.
etc.
The fact you don't know everything at every step is a bonus. It leaves more to discover.
As a young writer who only writes for fun, it was really interesting listening to the ninth mistake. When I first started writing, I had no clue how the world would look, the cultures, anything of the sorts. Then, I got to the point that I wanted to know everything that would happen in the next fifty pages before writing a paragraph. I often fluctuate on opposite sides of this spectrum.
"Gaps can be a feature not a bug" my friends, behold... the Todd Howard of book writing! 😂😂😂❤❤❤
You want to build an iceberg. :)
16 times the writing
This video is just awesome ! (and very helpful) Thank you Jed !
Glad to hear it!
I backed the Kickstarter for the Book. It's AMAZING!
Matt Colville had a really good tool for coming up with kingdoms, cities etc. Divide the population into groups based on their size.
You'll have Dominant group that most likely is in charge or at least most represented in the area (example: a human settlement or city). The city was founded by human settlers some hundreds of years ago when they first came to the region.
Then you have the largest minority (or minorities); the dwarves have slowly migrated to the city while working in the nearby mountain. They most likely have a permanent guild in the city and some political capital, "a seat at the table" because their presence brings riches to the rulers and commerce to the citizens.
Next you'll have enclaves. Maybe some races or major religions represented by embassies or temples or a grove of wood elves/druids, who have taken interest in the area. They are probably few dozen members. You'll see them walking in the streets every day and they have some say in the districts they reside.
Then there are smaller groups. Perhaps the nearby gnome settlement has set up a small trading post in the city with a permanent staff working to sell their inventions and jewels they bring from their own settlement a day's travel to east. Could also be members of some offshoot cult that found its way to the city five years ago. They most likely have little if none political power in the city. But in the case of the cult, this could change if nothing is done to it soon...
Individuals represent usually very small groups, one or two people. These could be wandering merchants, some academics on a field study trip or monster hunters who pop by every now and then. You can see these people occasionally in the market place buying rations but they rarely care much about the city's business nor do they have influence over anyone in the city.
Lastly, singular persons are exactly that: there is only one of them around in the city. We are talking about something like the last of the dragonborn (if dragonborn were almost extinct for whatever reason). Everyone knows the singular person and seeing that person on the street can be rare occasion but at the same time everyone knows who that person is, how good or bad they are and so on. These people can be irrelevant to the city's functions but also they can be extremely important. Maybe the singular person is a (friendly) lich. When the lich has something to say, the king, prince, duke, count, earl listens. Maybe people have marked their calendars because they know that the singular person comes to the city every second Tuesday to buy rations or mana bottles or something.
And these can be effectively used to create almost anything, giving the readers (or players in a roleplaying session) quickly the overview of the area, the power balance and more. And it can be used for creature races, religions, cultures, political groups, technology levels, magic user types and their power levels, even flora and fauna.
This is actually going to help me with my RPG I'm building, cheers mate, subbed.
the julius brutus thing gave me chills
I've found that writing really improves your studying.For example when i study business, i use the technique you showed of "LINKING CONCEPTS" when studying.
So if I'd be studying a specific BUSINESS PRCATICE I'd study the History of that practice ,why it came to be and how that affects a business, while imagining the concepts as real life fantasy stories
And perhaps its an obscure study method but it works for me to turn a subject into a story😅
Really insightful video, I really appreciate the input and it has sparked a few new ideas for me.
Parallel Worldbuilding: The interesting thing about this, is that the rules work differently depending on the kind of book. I do agree that there should be a link between different aspects of the lore, but it's not always necessary as context is very important.
I am in the middle of creating a TTRPG, in which, when people play the game, they have ALL the lore available to them through the handbook, but are able to pick and choose what they wish to include in their sessions. They can take the game mechanics and ignore the lore, or use the lore and go with a different set of mechanics, either way, the Game Master and players get to create their own world using the TTRPG as a base.
However, if creating a story that isn't interactive, I agree that leaving in a lot of mystery (especially to start with) is an incredible tool for worldbuilding. Allowing the readers to connect with the characters of the story and discover their relationships and interactions with the world, sprinkling in lore here and there along the way, keeps a reader's attention. The same can be said when it comes to being a dungeon master / game master, as boring the players with lore dump won't make for a good experience. Readers or players need to have food for imagination and should be blown away with the twists and turns with a story that unravels over time.
I trunked a novel for entirely unrelated reasons, but sitting through this, I know there are some of these mistakes in there.
The editing phase will be that much better guided. Thanks for the tips
Buddy, I'm going to tell you, I saw that thumbnail and said, "This guy better not tell me I can't have floating cities!"
That being said I do a good job of sidestepping a lot of these problems. Cheers!
Been running the samw dnd campaignsince 2005. I created my first world ans been tieing in all thw different heros and collecting lore and map. To eventually write down and try and turn into stories for my own interest and i just discivered your channel ans feel like ill be here for a while
A couple good pieces of media I've experienced that avoided the "stuck in current norms":
The video game Dragon Age Origins has several, but here's two:
Dwarves that are very similar to how the Romans are described in that story: when a dwarf does something incredible (ex. one invented smokeless gunpowder, one led the building of continent-spanning underground roads to safely connect all dwarven cities) they become a Paragon and have statues built of them and are elevated to a status above even the current ruler, and have statues built of them and are remembered forever.
Qunari, that are a group of disparate peoples that all follow the Qun - socio-religious teachings that determine most aspects of their lives, and they zealously hunt down any that dare defy it, but most Qunari are satisfied living within it.
The anime movie Empire of Corpses is a sci-fi alternate history where alchemists in the 1800s figured out how to reanimate corpses as mostly mindless undead by injecting an equivalent amount of alchemical material equal in mass to the lost soul into the brain. Society changes completely compared to the real world, with corpses being mass reanimated and used for all manner of things: from manual labor like tending fields or loading and unloading warehouses, to entirely replacing all front line soldiers on warfronts with corpses, allowing the rich and powerful to wage full scale wars
And society fully embraces it and enjoys the benefits: no more toiling at detestable manual labor jobs for the common living folk, no more living workers to pay wages to for manual labor jobs, no more casualties of war to abhor and get outraged at.
Thank you for your point about Objective Descriptions; I've always been told that my writing feels detached and dry when describing things, as if in-between character dialog there's just a third voice saying "Mount Doom in the Evil Bad Shadowlands exists over there. It is evil and gloomy and doomy and shadowy. It is the place of the great war where Good Guy McGoodguy killed the Demon Lord," as if I were dumping a wikipedia article in-between character interactions. I never really thought about describing things from the characters' perspective or only describe what the characters would care about or know.