Turtle WOW already have Lower Karazan , Emerald Sanctum raids in Hijal , waiting for Upper Karazan tower 40man and Grim Batol :) best Classic server out there .. blizzard just cant deliver what TWOW does
They also allow all forms of toxicity and ninjalooting, easily the most dogshit private server community i witnessed Theyre also moving away from classic+ as of last week to push 'balance patches' that competely change class fantasies in some cases.
To be honest I would not get the idea that Classic + is only end game with raids, the best part of era is the levelling. In my opinion they should even make it longer and add more leveling areas and quests and not only raids for level 60
I agree with this. Although end game is always the best content for mmos they should increase the amount of xp needed to level and get rid of dungeon boosts
I hae formulaic dungeons from TBC so much. It'd be better to split Kara in 2 parts (as they initially planned). And have lower part to be a 10men dungeon like UBRS and upper part to be a 25men raid with fly parth opening with attunement. Also Gruul and Magtheridon should be 10men.
Thats a lot of content m8 u well said thats a lot of effort and a lot of expensses!!thats why they made those into expansions....and they failed in time!!the only way to do that is to create another wow game and i dont know if they can affort that economicaly in terms of staff department
someone who didn't read the warcraft novels which came out before WoW in WotA trilogy enraged apprentice managed to force archimonde to teleport and escape as if he didn't apprentice malfurion would have killed him. Also depowered aspects in same novels were keeping archimonde at bay and after events of the day of the dragons novel which came out before war3 they regained all their powers placing archimonde bellow any full power dragon aspects so no in vanilla lore way archimonde wasn't a "invicible" just really strong above all wild gods but bellow titan keepers and dragon aspects with enrage malfurion in current day being more dangerous than he was over 10 000 years ago as an apprentice. statement of old gods power came from krasus that even sargeras would beg for mercy but even that was what he though not an objective fact. Grim batol in vanilla lore was just red dragons anymore.... xal'atath wasn't a thing just that modgud cursed the place when she died.... orcs left during events of the day of the dragons as nekros the skullcrusher their leader moved them away with most eing killed with red dragons guarding the grim batol and those remaining void dwarfs called skarden was first mention in night of the dragons novel which came out 2008 wotlk era so no its not classic lore nekroshes son nek'rosh who led the clan was killed during vanilla by alliance in wetlands. then again in old lore before ToD novel retcons 2007 red dragon first came in around their attack in quel'thalas and newer one attack on human navy before landing in tarren mill they were useful in either one or two battles so wtf you talking about? like xal'atath didn't exists in vanilla lore and in all lore she did exists she just dissapeared from mothgud before her death we don't know were she whent that your headcanon. vanilla CE artbook shows and all version which were made ingame were heavily old god influenced.
Solid write up, but I'm basing this off of alpha and PreAlpha concepts. So you are right that by the time the War of the Ancients had been written, this would be noncanon. But WC3 and PreAlpha/Alpha and Beta Vanilla predate the WotA book series. Really great read btw, a lot of the older WoW books are really solid. But just thought I should clarify my talking points.
@@EbonhardtTV WotA came out in march 2004 meaning it was written in 2003 and blizzard told it main written by knaak and TFT came that same year added to that beta was long way there in 2003.... I played the wow beta that year. also you are still ignoring stuff that came in day of the dragons novel which predate both war3 RoC and TFT as day of the dragons came in 2001 with RoC coming in 2002, TFT 2003 and WoW 2004.
Raids aside, I really hope they keep the abilities of SoD. The community loves It, roughly 4x the player base of Classic era and has dropped sustained population since TWW release. New content is great but the new abilities is what’s keeping the community active.
too many abilities while some of them are good they completely ruined pvp at higher levels which whether people pvp or not its a huge part of the game, vanilla plus content is what people want mainly. the reason my opinion as why sod still has a higher pop is because its a seasonal server that only came out 9 months ago and is currently on one of its last patches, classic era has been out for years and its still bringing people back, and look at turtle wow that hasnt added very many spells retaining over 7000 players on peak days. sod wasnt really a good example of classic plus content
@@pate7816 That a incorrect analysis on your part. First off, comparing a game that has 85k players vs 7k is just pure Ludacris. Second, the first seasonal event SoM failed in the past with just 3k player base whereas SoD has retained a massive amount of players against Cata Classic, WoW Retail TWW, Panda Remix, and FF 14 Dawntrail expansion releases. Classic Era has maintained the same player base for 5 years but never reached the number SoD has obtained. It did bump up slightly in 2023 Summer but then dropped off when Hardcore came out and then again when SoD came out. Lastly, PVP is fun but not the deciding factor towards WoW's true staple in the MMO community and thats end game content. However, for end game content to be enjoyable, the actual classes need to be enjoyable. Unlike Classic Era, EVERY class and spec is viable and fun to play. No more stacking 15 warriors. Turtle WoW literally got hacked and temporarily shut down back in July. Its definitely not something that should be used as a reference point. People will always have the #nochanges mindset. Those people can stay in Classic Era or Turtle WoW but the 85k player base in SoD wants this version.
@@andrew2616 putting in retail spells into classic is just not classic plus content plain and simple, it certainly was a way to shake up the game , maybe i need to re download sod but during phase 4 the spells were already too much and many people would agree with that and people were quitting. sod has a huge inflation of population because of all the alts people have created. there were always problems with SoM it was a huge flop because there wasnt enough changes. i agree that some of the spells they added were a good thing; i would even say that they should add every single spells they put in up to phase 3, but there certainly becomes a point where you have too many spells and options which is what makes classes unique, and again i am coming from a pvp stand point where they had to put in a 30 percent damage debuff to anyone in instanced pvp and people still get one shot. i havent played this phase so maybe there is some interesting class builds when it comes to planning your new spells. i agree that these changes dont affect pve that much and if anything only make it better
No one wants cata/lk spells in vanilla, the game does not work like that and kill pvp, a Big part of vanilla (that u dont like it does not mean that is not important)@@andrew2616
@@pate7816their are maybe too many aggressive changes… but vanilla has a lot of unfinished classes (Paladin). Classic + needs to have enough abilities added that classes minimally have a rotation. Sod has does a great job of that. Thankfully, sod is like a public eat beta. These changes are what they have in mind they just need to be balanced.
@@honestfan420yeah I have zero issue with rogue tank and mage healer. Mage healer is fun and I honestly want these in classic +. The issues have been the retailification of things (incursions) which have broken the meta of playing the game. The new content should be part of the “greater wow Experience” not a full replacement with painful running in circles for hours to stay caught up. That and power creep got a little too bad… keep the ideas just scale the damage down a bit haha.
Think 07 scape vs modern RuneScape. New content in the spirit of vanilla wow (no RDF, game is about the leveling journey, no modern “quality of life” additions that ruin player interactions). The problem is that every other person has a different opinion of what that would entail. The most vocal people I see on UA-cam in the comments are people who basically want vanilla era (no changes) but with a new raid. But in game most people seem to want more seeping changes that make each class roll viable (Paladin tanks should have a taunt… and like some actual abilities haha) But the general idea is making a more classic MMO style version of wow. Retail wow is more like a queue based arena game. Classic + would be a version of wow with new content that still retains its MMO identity.
this is the most ridiculous video i have ever seen, even if content was thought of before the release of wow vanilla, doesn`t mean it belongs in vanilla, its just a stupid narrative
@@terpfrogy There should be a new name for this piecemealed game they’re creating. If you enjoyed SOD I’m sure you will enjoy this new spin on retail +.
One cool thing about classic+ caverns of time is that we can go into the future now.
ye correct the future...
Turtle WOW already have Lower Karazan , Emerald Sanctum raids in Hijal , waiting for Upper Karazan tower 40man and Grim Batol :) best Classic server out there .. blizzard just cant deliver what TWOW does
Is this comment sponsored by turtle wow?
hmm given the class changes from the new patch, i dont know if twow is the way to go...
I just started playing Twow been fun so far. Been waiting for blizz to hopefully release new era server .
Old client is dogshit. Stop commenting on every wow video.
They also allow all forms of toxicity and ninjalooting, easily the most dogshit private server community i witnessed
Theyre also moving away from classic+ as of last week to push 'balance patches' that competely change class fantasies in some cases.
Love the ideas
just play on turtle wow you will be fine
old client is cancer
No it sucks.
Turtle wow just needs to update to the wrath client, the old client is bad
@@notafortnitegamer Too low iq to use vanilla tweaks/fixes.
Not the same
To be honest I would not get the idea that Classic + is only end game with raids, the best part of era is the levelling. In my opinion they should even make it longer and add more leveling areas and quests and not only raids for level 60
I agree with this. Although end game is always the best content for mmos they should increase the amount of xp needed to level and get rid of dungeon boosts
I don't know about making it longer, but introducing new quests is an excellent way to add content and make leveling less grindy.
Love ur channel
I never realized OG black morass went to the elsewhen
Why try so hard to fit classic+ content into the retail lore that the ppl wanting classic+ dont give a shit about ..
I hae formulaic dungeons from TBC so much. It'd be better to split Kara in 2 parts (as they initially planned). And have lower part to be a 10men dungeon like UBRS and upper part to be a 25men raid with fly parth opening with attunement. Also Gruul and Magtheridon should be 10men.
Need classic+ ASAP
As long as i can log on whever i have 45 mins free and queue for a sightseeing LFR ill play
I hope blizzard hire turtlewow team or copy their ideas.. they are doing it right no doubt about it
Except the game is unplayable esp in the US.
@@mitchconner2021 it's so cute when spoiled Americans have to deal with latency over 100ms.
Thats a lot of content m8 u well said thats a lot of effort and a lot of expensses!!thats why they made those into expansions....and they failed in time!!the only way to do that is to create another wow game and i dont know if they can affort that economicaly in terms of staff department
someone who didn't read the warcraft novels which came out before WoW in WotA trilogy enraged apprentice managed to force archimonde to teleport and escape as if he didn't apprentice malfurion would have killed him.
Also depowered aspects in same novels were keeping archimonde at bay and after events of the day of the dragons novel which came out before war3 they regained all their powers placing archimonde bellow any full power dragon aspects so no in vanilla lore way archimonde wasn't a "invicible" just really strong above all wild gods but bellow titan keepers and dragon aspects with enrage malfurion in current day being more dangerous than he was over 10 000 years ago as an apprentice.
statement of old gods power came from krasus that even sargeras would beg for mercy but even that was what he though not an objective fact.
Grim batol in vanilla lore was just red dragons anymore.... xal'atath wasn't a thing just that modgud cursed the place when she died.... orcs left during events of the day of the dragons as nekros the skullcrusher their leader moved them away with most eing killed with red dragons guarding the grim batol and those remaining void dwarfs called skarden was first mention in night of the dragons novel which came out 2008 wotlk era so no its not classic lore nekroshes son nek'rosh who led the clan was killed during vanilla by alliance in wetlands.
then again in old lore before ToD novel retcons 2007 red dragon first came in around their attack in quel'thalas and newer one attack on human navy before landing in tarren mill they were useful in either one or two battles so wtf you talking about? like xal'atath didn't exists in vanilla lore and in all lore she did exists she just dissapeared from mothgud before her death we don't know were she whent that your headcanon.
vanilla CE artbook shows and all version which were made ingame were heavily old god influenced.
Solid write up, but I'm basing this off of alpha and PreAlpha concepts.
So you are right that by the time the War of the Ancients had been written, this would be noncanon. But WC3 and PreAlpha/Alpha and Beta Vanilla predate the WotA book series.
Really great read btw, a lot of the older WoW books are really solid.
But just thought I should clarify my talking points.
@@EbonhardtTV WotA came out in march 2004 meaning it was written in 2003 and blizzard told it main written by knaak and TFT came that same year added to that beta was long way there in 2003.... I played the wow beta that year.
also you are still ignoring stuff that came in day of the dragons novel which predate both war3 RoC and TFT as day of the dragons came in 2001 with RoC coming in 2002, TFT 2003 and WoW 2004.
+ ICC raid, without the whole northrend area. maybe just a portal there to defeat the Lich King. The Lich King belongs to classic.
Raids aside, I really hope they keep the abilities of SoD. The community loves It, roughly 4x the player base of Classic era and has dropped sustained population since TWW release.
New content is great but the new abilities is what’s keeping the community active.
too many abilities while some of them are good they completely ruined pvp at higher levels which whether people pvp or not its a huge part of the game, vanilla plus content is what people want mainly. the reason my opinion as why sod still has a higher pop is because its a seasonal server that only came out 9 months ago and is currently on one of its last patches, classic era has been out for years and its still bringing people back, and look at turtle wow that hasnt added very many spells retaining over 7000 players on peak days. sod wasnt really a good example of classic plus content
@@pate7816 That a incorrect analysis on your part. First off, comparing a game that has 85k players vs 7k is just pure Ludacris. Second, the first seasonal event SoM failed in the past with just 3k player base whereas SoD has retained a massive amount of players against Cata Classic, WoW Retail TWW, Panda Remix, and FF 14 Dawntrail expansion releases. Classic Era has maintained the same player base for 5 years but never reached the number SoD has obtained. It did bump up slightly in 2023 Summer but then dropped off when Hardcore came out and then again when SoD came out. Lastly, PVP is fun but not the deciding factor towards WoW's true staple in the MMO community and thats end game content. However, for end game content to be enjoyable, the actual classes need to be enjoyable. Unlike Classic Era, EVERY class and spec is viable and fun to play. No more stacking 15 warriors.
Turtle WoW literally got hacked and temporarily shut down back in July. Its definitely not something that should be used as a reference point. People will always have the #nochanges mindset. Those people can stay in Classic Era or Turtle WoW but the 85k player base in SoD wants this version.
@@andrew2616 putting in retail spells into classic is just not classic plus content plain and simple, it certainly was a way to shake up the game , maybe i need to re download sod but during phase 4 the spells were already too much and many people would agree with that and people were quitting. sod has a huge inflation of population because of all the alts people have created. there were always problems with SoM it was a huge flop because there wasnt enough changes. i agree that some of the spells they added were a good thing; i would even say that they should add every single spells they put in up to phase 3, but there certainly becomes a point where you have too many spells and options which is what makes classes unique, and again i am coming from a pvp stand point where they had to put in a 30 percent damage debuff to anyone in instanced pvp and people still get one shot. i havent played this phase so maybe there is some interesting class builds when it comes to planning your new spells. i agree that these changes dont affect pve that much and if anything only make it better
No one wants cata/lk spells in vanilla, the game does not work like that and kill pvp, a Big part of vanilla (that u dont like it does not mean that is not important)@@andrew2616
@@pate7816their are maybe too many aggressive changes… but vanilla has a lot of unfinished classes (Paladin). Classic + needs to have enough abilities added that classes minimally have a rotation. Sod has does a great job of that.
Thankfully, sod is like a public eat beta. These changes are what they have in mind they just need to be balanced.
Comment section is always filled with turtle wow shills 😷
Almost like a video about classic+ will have people commenting about their favorite classic+ servers
This is what we wanted in Classic+, not rogue tanks and mage healers.
Honestly, rogue tanks and mage healers have been the LEAST of SoD’s issues.
@@honestfan420yeah I have zero issue with rogue tank and mage healer. Mage healer is fun and I honestly want these in classic +.
The issues have been the retailification of things (incursions) which have broken the meta of playing the game. The new content should be part of the “greater wow Experience” not a full replacement with painful running in circles for hours to stay caught up.
That and power creep got a little too bad… keep the ideas just scale the damage down a bit haha.
wtf is classic+
Think 07 scape vs modern RuneScape. New content in the spirit of vanilla wow (no RDF, game is about the leveling journey, no modern “quality of life” additions that ruin player interactions). The problem is that every other person has a different opinion of what that would entail. The most vocal people I see on UA-cam in the comments are people who basically want vanilla era (no changes) but with a new raid. But in game most people seem to want more seeping changes that make each class roll viable (Paladin tanks should have a taunt… and like some actual abilities haha)
But the general idea is making a more classic MMO style version of wow. Retail wow is more like a queue based arena game. Classic + would be a version of wow with new content that still retains its MMO identity.
this is the most ridiculous video i have ever seen, even if content was thought of before the release of wow vanilla, doesn`t mean it belongs in vanilla, its just a stupid narrative
Why are you continuing to call it Classic? Its not Classic it’s Retail +
Lmao it is classic plus don't think so deeply on it
@@terpfrogy There should be a new name for this piecemealed game they’re creating. If you enjoyed SOD I’m sure you will enjoy this new spin on retail +.
It’s not that deep bruh