Hi, it's Mackenzii here. I'm really happy with the amount of positivity in the comments and the amount (more) people who are becoming aware of how terrible Lily is. if this is a wakeup call for any of her fans, I'm glad. To any Minors who are fans of her who happen to see this video, please take this as a warning that she not only will but actively preying on yous. It's not a safe community to be apart of. Hell, not even safe for adults even.
It disgusts me how she has called YOU a terf yet repeatedly misgenders you. You keep on being the bigger person, because you still respect her identity no matter what awful shit she has done. I respect the hell out of that.
I.. feel sick. Lily Orchard is the reason i spoke out on the child abuse i experienced.. and... she does shit like this? I.. do not feel okay. im kinda glad i didn't interact with her when i was younger
I'm truly sorry that this happened to you. And I just want to make clear, the fact that you spoke out isn't tainted by what she's done. I'm glad you found that strength to speak out, and I'm sorry she violated your trust. I hope you can get the support you need.
@@EssenceOfThought thank you, and yeah, i do have the support I need. My two brothers and a loving boyfriend. Honestly im also just.. disgusted by Lily Orchard's blatant.. lies, and her calling out other groomers yet does the same shit, y'know? I subbed to her only recently but watched a lot of her stuff when i was younger. I remember watching nearly every video because I agreed with a lot of her views (i was.. naive, i sucked at forming my own opinions because of school bullying- different topic, not important) so to hear all of this, to know how fucked things are behind the scenes, just.. angers and sickens me. I dont have twitter or tumblr or anything like that so i only knew her youtube presence, i was wholly unaware
Literally admits Stockholm in her videos... "I wrote Stockholm, can't cover that" should easily be the smoking gun. She is a highly dangerous woman and gives all trans content creators a negative look! Its really sad...
@@skylarthompson299 sadly as long as she isn't caught with pornographic material involving real children (as in illustrated portrayals of actual irl children, or even straight up nude images of minors taken for sexual gratification) or has physically been involved in the sexual harassment of a minor... She won't be arrested. As long as there is no physical evidence that she has exploited minors physically, police won't give a shit. Which imo, as a CSA survivor who was groomed into sexual fetish roleplays by adults on deviantart, alongside being sexually harassed & assaulted by adults during childhood and... Sadly even exploited and coerced by friends sexually during adulthood, it makes me wanna smack a bitch. I'm mentioning all this cuz it's why I know she won't be arrested - my own cases, which some were even neatly documented, would 100% be dismissed by law enforcements, and were already dismissed by people I have cried for help to. As long as you do not have a recorded confession of the person admitting their disgusting and vile acts of violation against you, you are fucked. So the chance of her being arrested for all of THIS? Not impossible I'd say but can easily be rounded to zero. And god does it make me want to vomit in anger.
You legitimately have a femme presenting avatar and have stated your pronouns and Lily goes out of her way to misgender you 💀 it’s ironic. Im sorry you’ve been affected by her hatefulness
Geez, I used to like Lily and thought her humor was super cool and edgy. In hindsight, I was just a naive kid who didn't see the signs of a manipulator. Thank you for spreading this information.
SAMEEEEE. I don't remember when exactly I watched her but I remember it was when I was into MLP and on my old UA-cam account. I'm sickened and sad that she turned out this way but I think she was already starting drama with other people at the time but I wasn't really paying attention
Thank you EssenceOfThought for exposing this behavior. It was greatly disheartening to see people denying Lily's actions by trying to argue the *specific* definition of child grooming, like this is all some game to rules-lawyer about. I don't know how anyone could care more about letter-specific definitions (ones that Lily met anyways) than condemning a repeatedly proven child predator.
Just hope they can respect my... restraint in choosing not to name them. The only other time I've done a vague response was when I was purely looking to vent and didn't have the energy to start anything because a family member had just passed away due to COVID. This time I chose to do it to keep the focus on Lily and her victims. So if they're smart they'll realise it's not in my typical nature and I'm doing so to try and stop the conversation being centered on less important stuff.
Wow, that terrible excuse of misgendering by claiming the behaviour is similar to a guy. It's really messed up. Clearly it's malicious and not a mistake.
@rach3092 it reminds me of how Elon Musk keeps on crying abt ppl refusing to call Twitter X after it's "rebrand" but refuses to call HIS OWN TRANS DAUGHTER by her chosen name. Basically he gives more of a fuck abt the corporation he hasn't even built with his own bare hands being "deadnamed" but cannot bother to stop deadnaming his own flesh and blood - it's so ironic it's kinda sad
This Stockholm thing is really sus, and to me is a big smoking gun. Because someone who genuinely isn't trying to sexualize minors in their audience who got into this situation would delete the fanfic, not try to pretend she didn't write it.
Yup, part of her knows she should lose her platform because of it, so she has to lie, flat out, denying its very existence. That's the only way she can win.
One of Lily Orchard’s victims has come forward about how she groomed them into perceiving sexual interactions between adults and minors to be 'normal', culminating in her publicly sexting with said victim who was only 14-16 years old at the time. By the way, for those wondering why we didn’t name the critics of our usage of the word grooming in this video, it’s because, as stated at the start of the video, we want to keep the focus on Lily Orchard and her victims. That said, Machenzii’s testimony is still reliant on parasocial audience grooming, so we felt like publishing their testimony without an explanation would effectively be exposing them to shit they shouldn’t have to deal with. If you are one of the critics referenced, please respect that and remove yourself from discussions relating to the testimonies we have been entrusted with.
This is sick. How is someone like lily allowed to keep getting away with this? I really hope her victims get some sort of justice and closure in the future.
@@RaisonLychiUnfortunately yes. Mostly teens and other people who don't catch on to her manipulations and don't know about the bad stuff she's done (and actively avoid learning about it since Lily actively slanders her detractors and engages in historical revisionism).
I have read Stockholm before, and yes, Lily Orchard IS the author. She has gone by many names, such as: Bhaalspawn, Jerry Peet, Lily Peet, and now her nomenclature is Lily Orchard. Regardless of what she calls herself, Lily wrote that story despite her half-arsed denialism, and what I can describe her story is a cacophony of perverse sex and lewd, sleazy deeds. Read this story at your own risk, despite Lily Orchard's best efforts, her story is still out there, which is why we should keep up the pressure, and bring forth those who are willing to talk about their experience with Lily, until no one is abused by her disgusting behaviour.
I think the fact that she denies she wrote it in spite of all the evidence that she did is very strong evidence that she knows she shouldn't have a platform. She can't downplay it, so she has to completely erase it from history.
I have gone down the Lily rabbit hole since y’all posted your last video. I’ve heard some of Lily’s streams (there are fan reuploads and clips floating around Tumblr) and I can see why a kid would be easily victimized by her. I now understand why her victims seem to always talk about “walking on egg shells” and trying desperately to please her. She is just . . . fucking mean. Like not in a funny/put on way or a “I’m being direct and setting boundaries against bigots” way. The lady RAGES over simple questions or comments in chat from her audience, and she blames them and insults them every time she gets upset. I would be heart broken AS AN ADULT if my “hero” screamed at me and went on an angry tirade over a benign cartoon or a Disney game opinion. Especially with the way she sets up her conduct and ideas as being safe, wholesome, or more progressive than other cc’s. She really can’t handle her platform.
In one of her newer videos she kicked people off of her channel for expressing sympathy/concern for her sounding sick and got upset at people for trying to “mother her”. I get that it’s her channel, she can set whatever boundaries she wants, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to feel that her doing so was a severe overreaction.
@@foxyfrolic I literally started questioning her validity after this instance, checked out this video and yeah it all came together…I feel so dumb that I fell for this person’s lies
Lily's mask just keeps slipping and slipping. Just as an example, there's NO WAY her misgendering you wasn't an attempt to weaponize transmisogyny against you.
The in-depth explanation of what grooming is in this series has helped me realize i was likely groomed myself. Not by any public figure, nothing that became physical, but i recognize these tactics and the way they have been used on me in the past
As an online grooming victim who was encouraged to talk to a trusted adult because of lily's take on the toon situation, this shit fucking hurts. How she got away with it for so long i dont know. I hope you guys are ok
>Accuses her critics of being Porn Addicts >Creates an overly sexual environment for her largely minor audience, history of sexual harassment, overall recurring patterns of not being able to control sexual urges Projection's a helluva drug
i originally stopped engaging with lily's work because her constant acidic cynical above-it-all attitude had long since stopped being entertaining or cathartic for me and i was sick of it, and in general i was finding her media criticism to be shallow and stagnant esp as i was analytically developing myself. so i didnt part ways with her content on good terms or anything, but i was still inclined to, if not defend her, take criticism of her with a grain of salt. i think its understandable: lily is a trans woman who came out in what was for the most part a very queer-unfriendly fandom (certainly the Analysis Video subsection of it she gathered her audience in), she was subjected to constant hyperbolic rhetoric from misgender-happy teenagers and shitty reactionary youtubers, as well as extensive intrusive documentation on kiwifarms. i associated criticism of lily with bigotry and hyperbole latched onto by people who disagreed with her opinion on goddamn childrens cartoons or whatever at some point i became aware of lily making anti-child predation a huge part of her brand, and it reminded me of stockholm. i never read stockholm in anything other then pieces out of curiosity (i was a minor but considering that to my memory she always marked it as 18+ i dont hold her responsible for that specifically), but i was familiar with it because lily mentioned it in several videos and very frequently answered asks about it on her blog, particularly about her original characters. i unmistakably knew that the fic had a lot of content that was Questionable to say the least, i never read enough of it to get a good grasp on the framing but i always assumed that someone progressive like lily would never write this kind of content uncritically or gratuitously. still, even if she personally felt she had handled the subjects appropriately, i figured it was still something she would be inclined to apologize for, as writing it at all could feed into normalization of abuse, which was something it seemed she cared a lot about. i was doubly sure of this because i was aware she had harshly criticized people like nataile wynn for doubling down rather then owning up to their mistakes, with the specific framing that if wynn had simply acknowledged her wrongdoing and apologized well, the situation would have calmed down and not been a big deal (which im overall inclined to agree with fwiw) and then i saw her in multiple places deny that she had ever written stockholm. even considering that i was no longer invested enough in her to feel "betrayed", my entire day was ruined, i was fuming and overflowing with anger, i could not believe the audacity. so many tumblr posts she had written about ascentia flashed before my eyes, this was such an undeniable and CASUAL part of her presence for the years i had followed her. she might be able to fool her younger fans, but she can never fool me, i dont need proof because i was there and i will not be gaslit. since then i have never believed a word to come out of the woman's mouth, and i see no reason especially with so much testimony to believe she's not an adept manipulator cultivating a crowd of minors (and even adults) to prey on in hindsight she's been doing this for forever, she's always cultivated an extremely insular audience, even back in her brony analysis days she would talk about other creators in the space in a way to make it clear that u didnt need to watch anyone else, u only needed to watch her. and when she became more overtly political, attracting a "breadtube" adjacent audience, she started attacking creators in that space to encourage her audience to make her a proportionally larger part of their youtube diet. thats not to say that her criticisms of people like joshua burner and natalie wynn were bad or frivolous or not worth talking about, but much like the people who used and continue to use lily's awful behavior as a vehicle for bigotry, i am also convinced that lily used legitimate criticisms to encourage whatever niche audience she found herself with to be more devoted to Her And Only Her apologies if a lot of this seems petty or overly detached, i never knew lily myself much less was i specifically preyed on like her like the victims yall are platforming. i just needed to let off some steam i guess because she is one of the more genuinely loathsome internet figures i have ever encountered and im glad i got out of her audience when i did because i believe i jumped ship before she lept into her most overtly malicious behavior. every time i get the unsettling feeling that my extreme distaste for her has been manipulated by bad actors, i come across stuff like the clip in this video where she pretends not to know ethel's pronouns as if she hasnt been aware enough of her to subtweet and slander her since that 2020 response video. i would say she should leave the internet but im more terrified that she'd just go start a real cult
You have nothing to apologize for, it's important to discuss these things. As for Stockholm, I think the fact that she denies she wrote it in spite of all the evidence that she did is very strong evidence that she knows she shouldn't have a platform. She can't downplay it, so she has to completely erase it from history.
I used to be a fan of lilly only because she had some points I agreed with in her SU videos I was already on edge after she said calling your significant other a "partner" is stupid It hurt me especially as a non-binary person who isnt always comfortable being called "girlfriend"
hey i've been binging this series due to a recent lily orchard investigation im doing and the victim-first segment of the video was really impactful. hearing someone put into words so firmly and eloquently what i've been needing to hear for so long made me surprisingly emotional. getting gaslit about your personal trauma and having your words poked and prodded has caused such dissonance in my brain between myself and the severe childhood trauma i experienced which led to it never becoming processed. im in the very painful beginning stages of healing right now and those words from you felt like a physical push in the right direction. i'm gonna continue playing minecraft with this in the background for now, but thank you sincerely - not just for that segment but for this entire expose :).
TW: mentions grooming of a minor Listen, I came here to learn more about Lily's past and such, and honestly, I have never felt more heard or understood when it comes to this awful, awful topic. I was groomed online from aged 14 or so, and I always heard people who would tell me that I was lucky I never met my abuser in person, almost completely downplaying that I was still taken advantage of. I may have never met them in person, but that doesn't stop me from looking over my shoulder when I catch a familiar glance, or triple checking every new person or phone number that contacts me. Online abusers can be just as persistent and damaging as people who you encounter in person and I am so grateful that you're helping bring this to light as much as you are bringing forward evidence about Lily. Hearing that genuinely made my day.
Hey, I know this comment is old, but I hope you're doing okay, always remember that you are important, you matter, what happened to you was bad and I'm so sorry that happened to you. Please stay strong and keep going on in life. Never give up.
grew up watching Lily starting at age 12-13 (I'm 21 now) and she was one of my early inspirations for making mlp content/media analysis in general. I sort of fell out of love with her stuff as I got older but would still stop by from time to time to see new glass of water videos, this past week being one of those times. On top of watching the newer glass of water videos, I decided to do something I had only done once as a kid and it was to search up videos criticizing her (the only video I'd ever seen was made by transphobes) so I was always under the impression that she was a victim of unwarranted criticism for the SU/Korra videos and being trans. Even when her labeling of so many ppl as abusers confused me, and even when I wondered if she wasn't giving a lot of context as to why she was being harassed, I still took her word every time, that was until I discovered your videos on the topic and now I'm just...really disgusted and disappointed. Even as a child fan of her's I'd never felt too comfortable interacting with her/her community out of fear I'd get on her bad side and even when I knew she was misrepresenting ppl [many of whom I myself was a fan of] I shrugged it all off and gave her the benefit of the doubt every. single. time. which, thinking about it now that should've been a bit of a red flag...
It's honestly sad to hear that Lily is so toxic, even fans are too afraid to interact for fear of saying something wrong on accident and getting her and her minions against you. I used to watch her at that age as well. I'm 22 now. I never would've thought the fandom was so crazy but unfortunately I was groomed a lot by older dudes. I didn't know any better and it turned me away from the fandom. People like this just poison fandoms and it's sad
In my time on the internet, I've noticed that a lot of the worst people claim to be deliberately targeted by 'abusers/harassers/stalkers' for [insert whichever, sometimes tenuous, marginalisation they can use] and then use it to gain sympathy and defenders from people of the same community. It's so awful. I had no idea Lily had been around for so long. I hope you don't feel bad for believing her, she was actively doing the things manipulative and abusive people tend to do.
This is horrible. I was groomed online multiple times as a minor, and the trauma of being used as a sex toy by a more powerful person and told that it's "sexually empowering" to submit to that treatment never fully leaves you. It doesn't matter if you never meet your groomer in person. It doesn't matter if everything they did was perfectly legal at the time because society hadn't yet caught up to the dangers that exist to children online. It is STILL traumatic to be tricked by someone you admire into engaging sexually with them and not be able to say 'no' without risking further abuse and ostracization by the community. I hope that Lily's victims have all the support they need to recover from what was done to them, and I'm glad you're drawing attention to what kind of predator she is.
These videos are so underrated and need more views. I may not watch Lily, as I never really liked her, but I still am very grateful for you enlightening lots of others including me on this whole…. situation. 💜 You totally deserve more subscribers.
Not to be rude, but if Lily Orchard is transgender herself, shouldn’t she know the painful feeling of even the thought of being misgendered but she still acts tr@nsph0b!c and inters*x phobic Anyways (She also says LGBTA (Minus inters*x and qu**r because she says qu**r is a slur, so she doesn’t use it on LGBTQIA+.)
I wouldn't worry about being rude to her honestly also since in her eyes Ethel is a hater she does not care. Despite her also being trans it is clear she does not give a single fck
Yeah, some people are just extremely hypocritical, it's just like when a person of color acts racist towards another person of color, ppl just don't care
Doesnt surprise me. I stumbled across her channel years ago and watched some of her videos, she's just...icky. Always negative about everything, "this show is garbage, that thing you like is shit, everything is phobic, and i'm so persecuted" is basically i got from her channel.
I thought I was insane because I knew she wrote that filth. and that was the moment I stopped watching her luckily I didn't see any of the sexual stuff when I was a teen cuz I only cared about glass of water. luckily I wasn't much of a fan of her anyways. thank you for making this. I'm so tired of these people who pretend to be left leaning and educated and then use it to disguise abuse. I'm a leftist myself and it makes me feel confused on why people defend her
We kind of went into this in the previous video regarding what happened at Feminism in India. Abusers (the ones who don't get caught) are very good at not only picking their targets, but surrounding themselves with images that cast as much doubt on their victims as possible, and that's what Lily has done through her public displays. She's driven attention away from what she's doing.
Ah ah ah, not "pretend to be," but actually "are." Don't pretend that the bad people on your side aren't really on your side, they're just pretending, but all the bad people on the other side are really on that side because they're bad. Your political side has bad people. Every group has bad people. Own it and admit it and police it, be honest and don't whine "they're not REALLY on the left, they're pretending, we're all good pure people. If someone is bad, they must be on the right!" That's dishonest and cowardly and a fake binary.
@@ffordegroupie4931 Whilst your correct in theory, it's worth mentioning that Lily's primary defense in all this has been neoliberal, i.e. right of center. She's making the argument that, if parents can't keep their children safe, the rest of society has zero responsibility to not take advantage of that, extending principle of the free marketplace to all areas of life, in this instance the family. That’s to say, if a family can’t afford food, the child should starve; if a family can’t access private education, the child should go untaught; and that if a family fails to warn them about the ever changing dangers of the internet, the child should be preyed upon by people like Lily.
I find it strange out of your videos and others UA-cam and discord does not deplatform lily with so much evidence of her disgusting behavior. I'm so glad you're bringing her sick behavior to light
That bit about creating a false consciousness by selectively allowing positively loaded questions of tumblr reminded me about something that I feel is worth keeping in mind. Back in the day Lily got caught sockpuppetting to prop herself up in argument that got started in the Derpibooru comment section of a screencap from her blog where she tore at an anonymously asked question. She used both an account specifically for sockpuppetting, her own main account as well as three separate anonymous posters, as well as being the one to post it anonymously in the first place. Given all that and how easy the anonymous question was to tear into, it would not surprise me if she was the one who sent in that anonymous question as a strawman to tear down. Would also not be surprised if she has kept at it, especially since unlike on Derpibooru, there is very little risk of her getting caught for doing it on Tumblr.
When I was a fan of Lily's work back in the day I distinctly remember the Glass of Water she did on Cupcakes that you showed a clip from where she admits to having written Stockholm (at the time I had no idea what it was about and never read it. I only remember her mentioning it and didn't find out what it was about until the Toon Scandal). Out of curiosity after watching that video I checked to see if it's still there and guess what. It's gone. She's trying her absolute damnedest to bury any evidence that she wrote that story.
So I found out about you through Twitter. People saying that you were “Slandering” and “Falsely accusing people of grooming” just so happened to pop up on my feed. But I never take that kinda thing at face value (it’s Twitter for God’s sake lmao) so, out of curiosity, I clicked on your video and watched in full. All this to say, as a third party who hasn’t heard anything about this situation or the people involved…yeah the evidence is pretty damning. You straight up have sound clips of them admitting to creating abusive material and then lying about it later. As well as proof of them exposing their underage fans to pornographic material and encouraging their fans to send THEM pornographic material?! That in itself is stupid as Hell, but then talking with underaged fans that actually sent them this material?? Lmao this isn’t slander. It’s evidence of a dangerous individual. Plus whenever a party resorts to name calling or misgendering, I can’t help but side with the other party. Name calling and misgendering happens when you’ve run out of things to argue. This behavior is despicable and pathetic.
Agreed now in this type of situation sometimes you want to be a bit unbiased or neutral cuz you don't know if it's all true it could be stuff made up but the way Lily is responding to all the people calling her out with nothing but name calling and insults and just dismissing them as haters or people who are against her because of her identity I can't help but to think that this might all be true if that's all she has to say.
Lily has a way about speaking that's never sat right with me. She sounds like she's always talking down to everyone she's talking to or talking about. If it's not her way, it's the highway. Very manipulative and points fingers while trying to sweep things under the rug that she herself has done.
Same, previous I thought that she was just being criticized for her admittedly sort of bad faith media criticism she presents herself as a validating place for victims of abuse, so this is really difficult for me because I lost one of the few voices telling me I’m allowed to be angry
With her history of writing vile shit I'm not shocked, but my heart goes out to the victims. I never really liked her or her personality, seeming so anti-intellectualism and void of nuance. Its sad that most criticism of her is based off transphobia, not focusing on what actually makes her awful, which has kept her "safe" from backlash
I was a fan of Lily's years and years ago. She had a patreon level where a user could chat and hang out with her on Skype for a bit, with a video of it being posted. Got to do it, played some Town of Salem, and wasn't treated the best by her. Ended up stop being a fan shortly after for this and a couple other reasons concerning how she treated other folks as well, especially other content creators that were around her level here on UA-cam. She ended up deleting the video after a day or two being up and in return I dropped the Patreon level. There wasn't a fight or anything, more so her talking down to me as I remain socially anxious and awkward as we played. That mixed with how she often treated other folks, she was notorious for being a jerk. I should be clear, I was 18 and while very impressionable and looked up to her as a content creator, I don't believe I was groomed by her but I can't speak on if there was ever an attempt. It's clear she has groomed others here. She fell hard and she hurt many people in the process. Im so sorry to the people who were hurt by her.
OK, I know this is going to sound weird, but I would like to talk about something that has concerned for the past few weeks related to Lily Orchard... I have NO RELATION with Lily Orchard's content nor person; In fact, all I know about her outside of these videos are simply some clips related to some of her "controversial" takes. Despite that, there is someone I know who is somewhat close to her and has a lot of respect and care for her... For those who don't know, I have a friend called "Lolo the Paragon". She has a UA-cam Channel, a Twitter account and even sells some of her stuff online (the keychains are adorable!). She is someone who I hold dear in my heart despite really not being very close and well... I'm worried about her interactions with Lily. Lolo had many interactions with Lily in recent history mostly related with animation stuff and some of Lolo's projects and well... With all this happening... You can already tell why I'm worried. I'm worried that Lily Orchard could become a bad influence in Lolo's life and I'm worried that Lolo might be "living in a bubble". Lolo isn't a kid, she is an adult (heck, she is actually my "Major" you could say), but I don't know if she knows about all this, and if she does, then I don't know what are her views and actions of the topic... I know she (alongside others) could say that I'm "jumping into conclusions very quickly" and I am aware that reacting before thinking leads into trouble (heck, it was the reason why I got into a lot of trouble last year) but... There doesn't seem to be more we can't think off... Like, there is no way Lily Orchard is NOT doign something wrong here. I trust Lolo, she is someone very responsible and caring, but I fear that one day these interactions she has with Lily will eventually cause her to do or ssy something she will regret. I mean, she already felt bad after the mostly negative reception of the Bruce Timm female design tweet and that was simply a dumb take, what if it was something that is completely dangerous and/ot controversial? Knowing that Lolo is Autistic and that she really cannot handle a lot of stress... I just have that fear that this "friendship" could lead to trouble. What do you think I should do folks? Think you can give me a tip or two about this situation?
Hi, there. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I'm afraid I don't have any magic words you can tell your friend, but I have a few pieces of advice. First and foremost, you have to consider your own safety and wellbeing. That's doubly true if you're a minor. We all want to make sure our friends are okay, but it's not healthy to set yourself on fire to keep others warm. In addition to being prepared to break off your friendship (hopefully it doesn't come to that), also be prepared to communicate your feelings & needs, advocate for yourself and set boundaries. Second, you have to go into this with the understanding that you can't make Lolo stop following Lily Orchard and you can't even make Lolo listen to you. You can talk to her and explain why you think her choices are going to harm her, but if she still chooses to engage with Lily Orchard, you ultimately have to respect her choices. You can't save someone from themself since that would mean stripping them of their autonomy. With that made clear, how do you go about this? I don't think there's much you can do other than tell her what Lily is doing, but if you do that, your approach needs to change depending on the sort of person Lolo is. Is she the sort of person who can accept uncomfortable or scary information, or is she the sort of person who gets defensive or shuts down? If she's more defensive, you may want to start with something small if you can. Comments about how Lily seems scary or harsh, and concerning anecdotes about her behaviour, are easy for Lolo to dismiss in the moment, but can get her used to the idea of Lily being less than 100% perfect. Once you've done that (or if you can't do that because it's too difficult/draining, which is understandable) you can show Lolo more major criticisms, but still ones that don't include CSA or abuse. EoT's response to Lily regarding the word 'queer' [1] could be a good place to start since it shows that Lily is ignorant and a bit of a hack, but largely leaves Lily's abuse out of it (except for her rape apologetics regarding Tara Reade). I have videos that are a step up from that, discussing the aforementioned rape apologetics in detail as well as Lily's emotional abuse of her audience [2], and deconstructing her dishonest response to my criticisms [3]. Those last two videos might be relevant to Lolo's situation since they concern Lily Orchard's emotional abuse and gaslighting of her adult fans (in addition to her underage fans). Once Lolo has seen these less heavy videos and had time to process them, she's more likely to be prepared for evidence of Lily Orchard's CSA. For that, in addition to this video, EoT has done a video about Lily Orchard encouraging her ex-friend Josh Burner to groom a minor [4], and Lily Orchard's methods of grooming her audience [5]. Alternatively, if you don't want to share our videos, you can go through our citations and share the evidence directly (and that goes for all the videos I've cited). Above everything else, though, remember that someone's reaction to upsetting news is always going to be unpredictable and you need to play it by ear. I've given you the best suggestions I can think of, but you need to do what feels right to you in the moment, not what sounds good to me on paper. I hope this helps. Good luck with everything. Citations: [1] "Queer Is Not A Slur - A Referenced Response To Lily Orchard" ua-cam.com/video/O1ByPYkxuyg/v-deo.html [2] "I Can't Defend Lily Orchard Anymore (RE: Tara Reade, FantasyGate, Abuse)" ua-cam.com/video/wSsw7RPSzOs/v-deo.html [3] "How Lily Orchard Controls the Narrative" ua-cam.com/video/MFUyy7QwyqE/v-deo.html [4] "Lily Orchard Encouraged A Friend to Groom A Minor" ua-cam.com/video/qQTvw1L258U/v-deo.html [5] "Lily Orchard Grooms Her Audience W/ Victim Testimony" ua-cam.com/video/kFuyQPocKY4/v-deo.html
Saying your behavior is "like vaush" is astounding. You are waaay too chill and nice to be anything like him. And to use that as an excuse to misgender is just bizarre.
Honestly that comment itself reminded me of Vaush. The way she made a condescending joke about how little she cares about people she doesn’t is very much something Vaush would do
I have lived in an abusive home for my entire life. I turned to the internet because it was the easiest way for quick comfort. Being a lonely child I was drawn to Internet personalities, they made me feel safe, and they made me feel as if I knew them, like I really had a connection with these people I had never met. And to me then, I knew lily orchard. I stayed up and watched her videos, sometimes I would even invent interactions with her, I would often think of her as a maternal figure. She felt like the only one who had the will to stand up for abuse survivors. I am still somewhat of a child, I am in my teenage years. Watching this now it made me feel disgusting. I was Naïve, I was stupid to trust somebody I didn’t know. All the comfort I derive from these people isn’t real. It made me feel unstable, and uncomfortable. It felt like I was eight years old again alone in my room and so so desperate for something to make me feel safe. I was so venerable. I could have been hurt. I am hurt. I don’t know what to do with all of this. I feel Greif, and I have no imaginary friends to comfort me now. I want to ask you if there is anything I can do to feel ok. I don’t even know who “you” is. I just need something or anything to make it make sense. I want an answer. Please
I've been there. I really have. All I can say is that you must rely on yourself, love yourself, protect yourself, dont wait for or seek out someone else to rely on. I hope youre doing better now than you were while writing this.
I have some friends (who are friends or family of close friends and are therefore non-negotiable) who are right wing, with all the associated bigoted views. They often claim to not be bigots because they're "just asking questions", or "just stating facts", while doing the usual fascist talking points. It's difficult to know what to do about it so I just try to avoid the people or avoid the subjects, but that sort of thing needs to become less socially acceptable. It's baffling when liberal people defend fascists.
This is painful to see. I was a fan of Lily's, a long LONG time ago. Back when she went by the username "Bhaalspawn." Those videos have since been purged from her channel, but I still recall it... And now all of those memories are tainted and ruined by this. Not upset about this kind of behavior being exposed however, oh no, quite the opposite. Good work.
Jeez. Lily's really been falling apart the past couple years. I stopped watching after she complained annoyingly about people complaining about She-Ra. I liked She-Ra, but her focus was more on hating on haters, rather than the show itself. Then I happened to hear she had her own issues with the cartoon. Then she wrote a huge list of things writers shouldn't do, and most of it was blatantly based on a couple of cartoons she'd been watching lately.
I had been a long time fan of Lily Orchard before eventually growing out of it (this was mostly due to me sharing a similar sentiment of how terrible Blizzard treated one of my favorite characters, Sylvanas Windrunner as for why I'd originally watch her). In fact, I remember the 'Mommy Adagio = Alicorn' glass of water and I hadn't considered how bad Stockholm was (mostly as I had no interested in it). To know I had supported someone who NOT ONLY actively groomed minors and misgenders people (while she herself is also trans and has been misgendered in the past so she would KNOW HOW IT FEELS), but would also actively gaslight other people and lie about what she's done disgusts me. Hopefully more minors can find your video and can save themselves from her.
Lilly misgendering you is pure malice. Because the first video was the very first I ever watched of you and having no Information on you besides your avatar gave me a very clear idea of what your pronouns might be and he/him is last on my list of possibilities
Thank you for discussing this. I was groomed by an abusive ex. I was 34 when we met online, and although we eventually lived together, I've had enough long-term online friendships to also know that they can be just as impactful as face-to-face ones-especially if the victim is more used to online interactions or only has them as an option. Reading the NSPCC's guidelines for grooming, it feels almost uncanny: My ex was a romantic partner, but also a dominant figure. I mean this literally in the BDSM sense, as it's what we practiced when we were together. While we were, it tended to shape my views of them as an authority figure and mentor in a motherly kind of way. It was supposed to be consensual and healthy, but it wasn't. Instead, my ex groomed me identically to Dr. Welner's six steps (except the relationship became sexual almost immediately): 1. They targeted me randomly online (through a fetish website); 2. They gained my trust through weeks of open conversation and online sexual activity; 3. They fulfilled a caretaker role, whereupon they would take care of me in exchange for cooking, cleaning and sex (which I agreed to as part of a BDSM negotiation we laid out up front); 4. They isolated me by moving me 17 hours away from my family and friends, while also discouraging any and all contact; 5. They started to abuse me, favoring gaslighting, intimidation and verbal condescension and degradation, which took place constantly over months interspersed with love-bombing, hovering, DARVO and threats of abandonment; 6. They constantly resisted me being on my own or with friends, blaming me in ways that might keep me vulnerable, isolated and confused. I eventually detached from the situation by calling them out on their abuse. The moment I did, they threw me out. Luckily for me, I had been talking with family and friends for some time and had an exit plan; it was the only reason I felt comfortable even challenging them to begin with. Before I planned my escape, I found myself regularly doubting my own sanity and blaming myself for their abuse. Talking with loved ones helped break the spell, but even then it was extremely hard to break free.
@@EssenceOfThought Thank you! Things are much better now! I am away from them and we do not speak. Instead, I am devoting my time to writing a book about sex-positivity, using it and my artwork to raise awareness towards these types of issues. To that, your videos have been highly influential. I've even shown them to my mother, who speaks very highly of you--saying you're incredibly thorough, intelligent, and well-spoken.
Horrifying. I used to watch her videos, including when Blame and Groom happened. I was excited to see a reviewer/essayist who was also trans because I needed trans rep at the time to keep me emotionally going- but knowing the awful shit she's done just leaves a worse taste in my mouth. I knew she's denied her spotty history (from denying shipping Elsanna to denying Stockholm) and I unsubbed seeing her takes grow worse and worse, but now? This is terrible. As much as I would say I can't believe I supported her, she posed herself in a way for people like me, those in high school at the time, to take her at her word. We are not immune to lies.
I've gotten bad vibes from Lily pretty much since I first found out about her. I tried a couple of her videos, and her attitude towards media criticism was so toxic I didn't go further. The video that got me that vibe was relatively innocuous, too, and before some of the more heinous things she's done had either happened or become known by the wider public. It was her top ten best and worst My Little Pony songs list. As somebody who knows a little bit about music (I'm far from an expert, but I played trumpet in band in high school and took a music history class in college), I could tell her arguments in those videos were bad, but the way they were bad was concerning. She had incredibly arbitrary standards for what made good music. Anything that had heavy electronic elements, especially electronic drums, was automatically terrible unless she could interpret it as satire of electronic music. She called such elements "cliche" which is really stupid. Instrumentation is just one element of creativity in music, and you can use standard instrumentation if you do interesting stuff elsewhere. To give a comparison, it'd be like complaining that a rock song uses electric guitars, electric bass, vocals and a drum kit, and calling that "cliche." That's what rock songs do, and these instruments are hallmarks of the genre. Doesn't mean you can't use other instruments, but a song can still be fantastic just with the standard rock instrumentation setup. Electronic drums and synths are similarly just hallmarks of synth-pop, and their use is not inherently bad. It'd be fine if she just said that she personally does not care for these elements (I have similar feelings in some other music genres) but she says that these musical elements are objectively bad, which they aren't. And she just has utterly bizarre criteria. She insists that a song sounding good shouldn't matter at all, which not to discount things like lyrics or how the song is used in the episode (which are definitely criteria that you could use to help critically evaluate the songs), but I think most people would think that a song sounding good is a pretty big component of whether a song is good or not. Maybe a particular person might think certain other elements are more important, but they'll probably still agree that sounding good is an important quality. But all of these pale in comparison to her attitude towards disagreement with her. Her opinion is objectively right and everybody else's is objectively wrong unless they agree with her. She basically outright said this in a side rant in the best list song ranking on the episode "Spice Up Your Life," which had the moral that you shouldn't treat the opinion of any single, very idiosyncratic critic as an objective fact, and should try things for yourself, which she just railed against this moral with such vitriol that it disturbed me. I quickly realized she's setting up a community where her opinion was the only one that mattered. She is the only person that you could trust. It was cultish and creepy, and more than a little fascistic (not the last time that something that she railed against could accurately describe her). I get that what I just described, while toxic, is minor compared to the grooming and sexual predation, but I feel like it's a symptom of the same root problem (and may arguably be a component of the grooming process): she gets others to trust in her completely so she can use them for her own purposes, but feels nothing for the people she's doing it to. Validation, money, sex, harassing those she dislikes for whatever reason. But she'll toss them aside after they've served their purpose or she can't completely control their thoughts, opinions, and actions anymore. So, yeah, I'm not remotely shocked to find out that she's a sexual predator. It honestly fits the overall pattern of behavior that I've seen of her way too well.
"i don't remember what gender they are" isn't an excuse it's just harassment if lily cared she would just say they/them edit: i hate the whole "no one would be mad if i was cis white guy" its only deflecting blame and correct me if im wrong but some of the most hated people in the world are cis white guys
I find it very telling how easily she can rationalize misgendering people, when in contrast, despite the fact I think she is an absolutely disgusting human being who doesn't deserve anyone's respect, I would nonetheless never misgender her. Not even for her feelings, but because there is a broader issue at hand in that I don't want to perpetuate that there are exceptions to the rule when it comes to respecting someone's identity. Pretty ironic considering that recent video she made screaming about how no one on the left is left enough for her, yet she can't even conceptualize that the way she treats and interacts with other people as someone with social capital can have broader consequences.
Thank you for making this video. I had been watching Lily's videos on and off for years (not her live streams, my ADHD never gave me the patience) and never realized any of this was happening. I always thought she was fully against grooming, and to learn she is actively participating in it is disturbing and disgusting beyond belief. Unsubscribing and never watching her again. Thank you for opening my eyes to this
I’m so glad I never hopped on the LilyOrchard bandwagon. I think I was introduced to her through her “Steven Universe is Bad” video and while some points I agreed with, didn’t really care for her negative attitude with it (especially since I did like SU at the time). Completely off-topic, but your icon kind of reminds me of Mia Fey in Ace Attorney!
thank you for making this video. so much of this describes almost my exact experience, and frankly it's just luck that i didn't end up with the worst outcome. thank you for directly stating how minors in her audience who follow her every post and opinion were harmed by her. cause that was me and ive had a weird feeling about it for a while and now i understand why. it's not just cause my opinions changed and i disagree with her on random discoursey topics, it's because i have been harmed by the environment i was in. i feel more prepared to talk to my therapist about it now. thank you again
I'm just realizing a long time ago I watched one of her videos where she was gaslighting and blaming her audience for being too dumb when asking her questions, and that really made me lose support for her at the time. Most of the comments were mimicking her, putting themselves and others down to justify her abusive condemnation. Putting that in the context that she's an experienced child groomer? Creepy as hell.
I never got to the stage of direct interactions or even her tumbler, thankfully my shyness saved me, but as a kid who was being abused by everyone in my life Lily was someone I looked up to deeply. I was probably 12 when I started watching her regularly and the idea that it was okay to be *angry* was something I took immense comfort in and in some ways I feel helped me stay sane in that enviroment. Its sickening to learn that comfort was a fascade she put up to hurt others like me. It's fucking disgusting to learn something that shaped me so fundamentally, that helped me through my own abuse was merely a tool to put more kids through the exact same shit I had already survived. I wish all her victims the best in life and I'm sorry it took me this long to see her as the monster she is instead of the savior she painted herself to be
I was not expecting "this bitch is gaslighting you in the more recent video" and I giggled. That was the only time I smiled during this grim but necessary video.
I’m on the same page, and I’m glad that I came to know her through this channel and not because her original content 💀 Glad once again of never being part of the mlp fandom
I fell down this rabbit-hole today after binging reviews of Hazbin hotel, and like I will have to block this stuff because it makes me feel viscerally ill. It's so easy to get exposed to horrific stuff on the internet as a minor because of predatory adults like Lily. I was a fan of MLP as a child (like 10-12). A young girl, the show's target demographic, and when I looked at stuff about it online I ended up getting exposed to explicit images, writings etc. It does have a big impact. An adult has a responsibility on the internet, they have power. Especially if they build their platform on content aimed at minors. Lily seems to have abused that power over and over. Hope her victims get peace.
I've seen vids on Lily Orchard for several years now and I still have no idea who she is or why she's popular. That being said, I'm kind of glad now I still go "Lily Who"
Yeah, I remember watching one of her videos on Stephen Universe and yeesh. Basically, called the creators of the show Nazi-fascist sympathizers. I mean didn't like the way the show went but geez. Disappointing to hear she's apparently a terrible person to boot.
It always feels so confusing because as a younger person I really admired the bold approach to all of this. Like the idea of fighting back against your bully and they won't fight back anymore and it actually did work for me once or twice. But it's so sad that like she's actually a terrible person who sometimes gives good advice. Every time I think I find an LGBT person I can look up to on the internet there are terrible person so I'm just stopped looking up to anybody and I feel like that's kind of sad in itself.
"Her UA-cam channel is kept relatively clean." As a more casual former viewer, my experience attests to that. I followed her on Tumblr, yes, but I also followed plenty of other Tumblr blogs, so it was easy for me to miss the kinds of things she'd post there because my dashboard was full of other things. Also, I don't think I ever joined her Discord, and if I ever did, it was briefly before I decided I wasn't interested enough to stay. (I've done that with a lot of popular creators' Discord servers.) I guess this is how so much of her behavior slid past me: I wasn't there to see most of it. I only learned about her nsfw streams this calendar year, from this series on her.
fully aware ive commented before, i just had the realization that the glass of water video where she admits to writing Stockholm is gone- that didnt even register to me, I know ive watched that video before, didnt realize it was gone- when did she delete it? was it sometime when she did the video about Josh? I remember vaguely that i liked the take in that video, i think it was something about how early brony grimdark fanfiction was kinda shitty in terms of writing but i dont fully remember, its been a hot minute since i watched it (obviously). totally aware im focusing on such a small thing compared to everything else, I just cant.. focus on the other stuff without feeling sick. yes i am rewatching as well, I like the commentary even if i cant focus to hard on it
oh wow, just yesterday i had started watching lily's videos, the first one being, obviously, the 2 hour steven universe video essay... i didn't know all this! thank you for exposing it, i won't watch her again.
I didn’t know who is was but I’ve been binging these videos because I am just in shock. As a now adult who enjoyed MLP as a kid, her audacity to have adult consent out in the open is no surprise to me but something so sad.
Lily Orchard always rubbed me the wrong way, every video I watched of her was so…. Off putting. And I could never pin-point exactly why. For the lost part it was her over aggressive and absolutely scathing critique of children’s media. Particularly Steven Universe? Like yes I know SU is riddled with many writing issues, and I’m not even a fan of the show.. but her criticism felt less like her analysis of the show, and more like a rant on why she had her opinions on it. Witch is fine, I enjoy listening to people rant about things sometimes, but… that wasn’t what it was advertised as. It was advertised as a critical and objective look at the show and that just seemed… not right. I chalked up the feeling to just that, me not vibing with her content/persona. But now… looking back I can see why she just set off alarm bells for me. Her behavior just in general was concerning, and reminded me of unpleasant things where in I was dragged into a hyper-sexualized environment in the internet when I was little that led to me being desensitized to harmful content (ie, the undertale epidemic of people shipping Frans. Sans x Frans) or to me reading some fucked up stuff at way to young an age. Somehow, I avoided being targeted for any sort of grooming our abuse, but my views on sexuality and abuse have forever been effected and I know this effects my own sexual expression even now. The knowledge that younger me was her perfect victim… terrifies me.
Jesus christ why does Lily keep getting worse the more I learn about the abusive shit she does to her fans behind the scenes?? This is even worse than what I learned about how she treated her sister. How do so many of her fans try to act like she's done nothing wrong while seeing her do stuff like this pretty often??? Though then again from what I've learned in the Courtney expose a lot of her fans are too scared to speak up. So maybe that has something to do with it. Either way good lord. I did not even remotely expect to learn she's exposing minors to her nudes in streams knowingly, exposing minors to links to porn sites and that she's engaging in zoophilia irl!? I don't get how Lily can keep playing the victim card at this point, I really don't.
I'll admit I had no idea Lily did any of this stuff. Though I never went past her UA-cam page. I stayed away from tumbler because its common knowledge thats a porn page
![Debunking Lily Orchard's Pro-Child-Predator Arguments [Check Description]](/img/n.gif)
Hi, it's Mackenzii here.
I'm really happy with the amount of positivity in the comments and the amount (more) people who are becoming aware of how terrible Lily is. if this is a wakeup call for any of her fans, I'm glad.
To any Minors who are fans of her who happen to see this video, please take this as a warning that she not only will but actively preying on yous. It's not a safe community to be apart of. Hell, not even safe for adults even.
Again, thank you for trusting us with your testimony.
It disgusts me how she has called YOU a terf yet repeatedly misgenders you. You keep on being the bigger person, because you still respect her identity no matter what awful shit she has done. I respect the hell out of that.
She really is the Onision of the children’s media fandom
She really is.
The fact that you said "children" and "Onision" in the same sentence is already terrifying enough, but it's also the unfortunate truth.
I.. feel sick. Lily Orchard is the reason i spoke out on the child abuse i experienced.. and... she does shit like this? I.. do not feel okay. im kinda glad i didn't interact with her when i was younger
I'm truly sorry that this happened to you. And I just want to make clear, the fact that you spoke out isn't tainted by what she's done. I'm glad you found that strength to speak out, and I'm sorry she violated your trust. I hope you can get the support you need.
@@EssenceOfThought thank you, and yeah, i do have the support I need. My two brothers and a loving boyfriend. Honestly im also just.. disgusted by Lily Orchard's blatant.. lies, and her calling out other groomers yet does the same shit, y'know? I subbed to her only recently but watched a lot of her stuff when i was younger. I remember watching nearly every video because I agreed with a lot of her views (i was.. naive, i sucked at forming my own opinions because of school bullying- different topic, not important) so to hear all of this, to know how fucked things are behind the scenes, just.. angers and sickens me. I dont have twitter or tumblr or anything like that so i only knew her youtube presence, i was wholly unaware
@@minecrafygirlhd342 It really sucks when scumbags mask themselves as warriors against the very thing they're doing. Stay strong, love. 💜
@@janerecluse4344 I'm glad most of them don't, but it sucks knowing such a vile and dangerous minority does. Idk which is worse anymore.
Literally admits Stockholm in her videos...
"I wrote Stockholm, can't cover that" should easily be the smoking gun. She is a highly dangerous woman and gives all trans content creators a negative look!
Its really sad...
Agreed, but sadly it's doubtful it'll be the thing that brings her down.
@@EssenceOfThought Idk how Lily hasn’t been arrested yet.-
Worst part is she makes the joke like it's a cute mistake and not a weird, creepy pedo fanfic.
@@skylarthompson299 sadly as long as she isn't caught with pornographic material involving real children (as in illustrated portrayals of actual irl children, or even straight up nude images of minors taken for sexual gratification) or has physically been involved in the sexual harassment of a minor... She won't be arrested. As long as there is no physical evidence that she has exploited minors physically, police won't give a shit. Which imo, as a CSA survivor who was groomed into sexual fetish roleplays by adults on deviantart, alongside being sexually harassed & assaulted by adults during childhood and... Sadly even exploited and coerced by friends sexually during adulthood, it makes me wanna smack a bitch.
I'm mentioning all this cuz it's why I know she won't be arrested - my own cases, which some were even neatly documented, would 100% be dismissed by law enforcements, and were already dismissed by people I have cried for help to. As long as you do not have a recorded confession of the person admitting their disgusting and vile acts of violation against you, you are fucked. So the chance of her being arrested for all of THIS? Not impossible I'd say but can easily be rounded to zero. And god does it make me want to vomit in anger.
@@skylarthompson299and why is UA-cam not doing anything?
You legitimately have a femme presenting avatar and have stated your pronouns and Lily goes out of her way to misgender you 💀 it’s ironic. Im sorry you’ve been affected by her hatefulness
Extremely ironic
Geez, I used to like Lily and thought her humor was super cool and edgy. In hindsight, I was just a naive kid who didn't see the signs of a manipulator. Thank you for spreading this information.
SAMEEEEE. I don't remember when exactly I watched her but I remember it was when I was into MLP and on my old UA-cam account. I'm sickened and sad that she turned out this way but I think she was already starting drama with other people at the time but I wasn't really paying attention
SAME I was doubly naive, I’m autistic and was neglected and manipulated as a kid. So you’d think I’d be good at telling who’s manipulating me by now.
Thank you EssenceOfThought for exposing this behavior. It was greatly disheartening to see people denying Lily's actions by trying to argue the *specific* definition of child grooming, like this is all some game to rules-lawyer about. I don't know how anyone could care more about letter-specific definitions (ones that Lily met anyways) than condemning a repeatedly proven child predator.
Just hope they can respect my... restraint in choosing not to name them. The only other time I've done a vague response was when I was purely looking to vent and didn't have the energy to start anything because a family member had just passed away due to COVID. This time I chose to do it to keep the focus on Lily and her victims. So if they're smart they'll realise it's not in my typical nature and I'm doing so to try and stop the conversation being centered on less important stuff.
Wow, that terrible excuse of misgendering by claiming the behaviour is similar to a guy. It's really messed up.
Clearly it's malicious and not a mistake.
Yeah, she's also called me a Karen before, so...
@rach3092 it reminds me of how Elon Musk keeps on crying abt ppl refusing to call Twitter X after it's "rebrand" but refuses to call HIS OWN TRANS DAUGHTER by her chosen name.
Basically he gives more of a fuck abt the corporation he hasn't even built with his own bare hands being "deadnamed" but cannot bother to stop deadnaming his own flesh and blood - it's so ironic it's kinda sad
This Stockholm thing is really sus, and to me is a big smoking gun. Because someone who genuinely isn't trying to sexualize minors in their audience who got into this situation would delete the fanfic, not try to pretend she didn't write it.
Yup, part of her knows she should lose her platform because of it, so she has to lie, flat out, denying its very existence. That's the only way she can win.
One of Lily Orchard’s victims has come forward about how she groomed them into perceiving sexual interactions between adults and minors to be 'normal', culminating in her publicly sexting with said victim who was only 14-16 years old at the time.
By the way, for those wondering why we didn’t name the critics of our usage of the word grooming in this video, it’s because, as stated at the start of the video, we want to keep the focus on Lily Orchard and her victims. That said, Machenzii’s testimony is still reliant on parasocial audience grooming, so we felt like publishing their testimony without an explanation would effectively be exposing them to shit they shouldn’t have to deal with. If you are one of the critics referenced, please respect that and remove yourself from discussions relating to the testimonies we have been entrusted with.
This is sick. How is someone like lily allowed to keep getting away with this? I really hope her victims get some sort of justice and closure in the future.
Same, sadly she has a fanbase that ignores all of that and defends her no matter what.
I do to. But how that's going to come about, I'm sadly not all that sure. All we can do is keep making people aware.
@@aroace7913 she has a fanbase???
@@RaisonLychi Coming from someone who followed her for years, yes, she does.
@@RaisonLychiUnfortunately yes. Mostly teens and other people who don't catch on to her manipulations and don't know about the bad stuff she's done (and actively avoid learning about it since Lily actively slanders her detractors and engages in historical revisionism).
I have read Stockholm before, and yes, Lily Orchard IS the author. She has gone by many names, such as: Bhaalspawn, Jerry Peet, Lily Peet, and now her nomenclature is Lily Orchard. Regardless of what she calls herself, Lily wrote that story despite her half-arsed denialism, and what I can describe her story is a cacophony of perverse sex and lewd, sleazy deeds. Read this story at your own risk, despite Lily Orchard's best efforts, her story is still out there, which is why we should keep up the pressure, and bring forth those who are willing to talk about their experience with Lily, until no one is abused by her disgusting behaviour.
I think the fact that she denies she wrote it in spite of all the evidence that she did is very strong evidence that she knows she shouldn't have a platform. She can't downplay it, so she has to completely erase it from history.
Her new name is technically Lily Turkleson since she married my ex and Mikaila couldn't take Lily last name orchard cause legal reasons.
I have gone down the Lily rabbit hole since y’all posted your last video. I’ve heard some of Lily’s streams (there are fan reuploads and clips floating around Tumblr) and I can see why a kid would be easily victimized by her. I now understand why her victims seem to always talk about “walking on egg shells” and trying desperately to please her. She is just . . . fucking mean. Like not in a funny/put on way or a “I’m being direct and setting boundaries against bigots” way. The lady RAGES over simple questions or comments in chat from her audience, and she blames them and insults them every time she gets upset. I would be heart broken AS AN ADULT if my “hero” screamed at me and went on an angry tirade over a benign cartoon or a Disney game opinion. Especially with the way she sets up her conduct and ideas as being safe, wholesome, or more progressive than other cc’s. She really can’t handle her platform.
In one of her newer videos she kicked people off of her channel for expressing sympathy/concern for her sounding sick and got upset at people for trying to “mother her”. I get that it’s her channel, she can set whatever boundaries she wants, but that doesn’t mean I’m not allowed to feel that her doing so was a severe overreaction.
@@foxyfrolic I literally started questioning her validity after this instance, checked out this video and yeah it all came together…I feel so dumb that I fell for this person’s lies
Lily's mask just keeps slipping and slipping.
Just as an example, there's NO WAY her misgendering you wasn't an attempt to weaponize transmisogyny against you.
The in-depth explanation of what grooming is in this series has helped me realize i was likely groomed myself. Not by any public figure, nothing that became physical, but i recognize these tactics and the way they have been used on me in the past
I hope you're doing okay! I'm so sorry that happened to you
As an online grooming victim who was encouraged to talk to a trusted adult because of lily's take on the toon situation, this shit fucking hurts. How she got away with it for so long i dont know. I hope you guys are ok
>Accuses her critics of being Porn Addicts
>Creates an overly sexual environment for her largely minor audience, history of sexual harassment, overall recurring patterns of not being able to control sexual urges
Projection's a helluva drug
i originally stopped engaging with lily's work because her constant acidic cynical above-it-all attitude had long since stopped being entertaining or cathartic for me and i was sick of it, and in general i was finding her media criticism to be shallow and stagnant esp as i was analytically developing myself. so i didnt part ways with her content on good terms or anything, but i was still inclined to, if not defend her, take criticism of her with a grain of salt. i think its understandable: lily is a trans woman who came out in what was for the most part a very queer-unfriendly fandom (certainly the Analysis Video subsection of it she gathered her audience in), she was subjected to constant hyperbolic rhetoric from misgender-happy teenagers and shitty reactionary youtubers, as well as extensive intrusive documentation on kiwifarms. i associated criticism of lily with bigotry and hyperbole latched onto by people who disagreed with her opinion on goddamn childrens cartoons or whatever
at some point i became aware of lily making anti-child predation a huge part of her brand, and it reminded me of stockholm. i never read stockholm in anything other then pieces out of curiosity (i was a minor but considering that to my memory she always marked it as 18+ i dont hold her responsible for that specifically), but i was familiar with it because lily mentioned it in several videos and very frequently answered asks about it on her blog, particularly about her original characters. i unmistakably knew that the fic had a lot of content that was Questionable to say the least, i never read enough of it to get a good grasp on the framing but i always assumed that someone progressive like lily would never write this kind of content uncritically or gratuitously. still, even if she personally felt she had handled the subjects appropriately, i figured it was still something she would be inclined to apologize for, as writing it at all could feed into normalization of abuse, which was something it seemed she cared a lot about. i was doubly sure of this because i was aware she had harshly criticized people like nataile wynn for doubling down rather then owning up to their mistakes, with the specific framing that if wynn had simply acknowledged her wrongdoing and apologized well, the situation would have calmed down and not been a big deal (which im overall inclined to agree with fwiw)
and then i saw her in multiple places deny that she had ever written stockholm. even considering that i was no longer invested enough in her to feel "betrayed", my entire day was ruined, i was fuming and overflowing with anger, i could not believe the audacity. so many tumblr posts she had written about ascentia flashed before my eyes, this was such an undeniable and CASUAL part of her presence for the years i had followed her. she might be able to fool her younger fans, but she can never fool me, i dont need proof because i was there and i will not be gaslit. since then i have never believed a word to come out of the woman's mouth, and i see no reason especially with so much testimony to believe she's not an adept manipulator cultivating a crowd of minors (and even adults) to prey on
in hindsight she's been doing this for forever, she's always cultivated an extremely insular audience, even back in her brony analysis days she would talk about other creators in the space in a way to make it clear that u didnt need to watch anyone else, u only needed to watch her. and when she became more overtly political, attracting a "breadtube" adjacent audience, she started attacking creators in that space to encourage her audience to make her a proportionally larger part of their youtube diet. thats not to say that her criticisms of people like joshua burner and natalie wynn were bad or frivolous or not worth talking about, but much like the people who used and continue to use lily's awful behavior as a vehicle for bigotry, i am also convinced that lily used legitimate criticisms to encourage whatever niche audience she found herself with to be more devoted to Her And Only Her
apologies if a lot of this seems petty or overly detached, i never knew lily myself much less was i specifically preyed on like her like the victims yall are platforming. i just needed to let off some steam i guess because she is one of the more genuinely loathsome internet figures i have ever encountered and im glad i got out of her audience when i did because i believe i jumped ship before she lept into her most overtly malicious behavior. every time i get the unsettling feeling that my extreme distaste for her has been manipulated by bad actors, i come across stuff like the clip in this video where she pretends not to know ethel's pronouns as if she hasnt been aware enough of her to subtweet and slander her since that 2020 response video. i would say she should leave the internet but im more terrified that she'd just go start a real cult
You have nothing to apologize for, it's important to discuss these things.
As for Stockholm, I think the fact that she denies she wrote it in spite of all the evidence that she did is very strong evidence that she knows she shouldn't have a platform. She can't downplay it, so she has to completely erase it from history.
I used to be a fan of lilly only because she had some points I agreed with in her SU videos
I was already on edge after she said calling your significant other a "partner" is stupid
It hurt me especially as a non-binary person who isnt always comfortable being called "girlfriend"
hey i've been binging this series due to a recent lily orchard investigation im doing and the victim-first segment of the video was really impactful. hearing someone put into words so firmly and eloquently what i've been needing to hear for so long made me surprisingly emotional. getting gaslit about your personal trauma and having your words poked and prodded has caused such dissonance in my brain between myself and the severe childhood trauma i experienced which led to it never becoming processed. im in the very painful beginning stages of healing right now and those words from you felt like a physical push in the right direction. i'm gonna continue playing minecraft with this in the background for now, but thank you sincerely - not just for that segment but for this entire expose :).
TW: mentions grooming of a minor
Listen, I came here to learn more about Lily's past and such, and honestly, I have never felt more heard or understood when it comes to this awful, awful topic.
I was groomed online from aged 14 or so, and I always heard people who would tell me that I was lucky I never met my abuser in person, almost completely downplaying that I was still taken advantage of. I may have never met them in person, but that doesn't stop me from looking over my shoulder when I catch a familiar glance, or triple checking every new person or phone number that contacts me. Online abusers can be just as persistent and damaging as people who you encounter in person and I am so grateful that you're helping bring this to light as much as you are bringing forward evidence about Lily. Hearing that genuinely made my day.
Hey, I know this comment is old, but I hope you're doing okay, always remember that you are important, you matter, what happened to you was bad and I'm so sorry that happened to you.
Please stay strong and keep going on in life. Never give up.
grew up watching Lily starting at age 12-13 (I'm 21 now) and she was one of my early inspirations for making mlp content/media analysis in general. I sort of fell out of love with her stuff as I got older but would still stop by from time to time to see new glass of water videos, this past week being one of those times. On top of watching the newer glass of water videos, I decided to do something I had only done once as a kid and it was to search up videos criticizing her (the only video I'd ever seen was made by transphobes) so I was always under the impression that she was a victim of unwarranted criticism for the SU/Korra videos and being trans. Even when her labeling of so many ppl as abusers confused me, and even when I wondered if she wasn't giving a lot of context as to why she was being harassed, I still took her word every time, that was until I discovered your videos on the topic and now I'm just...really disgusted and disappointed. Even as a child fan of her's I'd never felt too comfortable interacting with her/her community out of fear I'd get on her bad side and even when I knew she was misrepresenting ppl [many of whom I myself was a fan of] I shrugged it all off and gave her the benefit of the doubt every. single. time.
which, thinking about it now that should've been a bit of a red flag...
As Bojack Horseman once said, "When you look at someone through rose colored glasses, all of the red flags just look like flags."
It's honestly sad to hear that Lily is so toxic, even fans are too afraid to interact for fear of saying something wrong on accident and getting her and her minions against you. I used to watch her at that age as well. I'm 22 now. I never would've thought the fandom was so crazy but unfortunately I was groomed a lot by older dudes. I didn't know any better and it turned me away from the fandom. People like this just poison fandoms and it's sad
In my time on the internet, I've noticed that a lot of the worst people claim to be deliberately targeted by 'abusers/harassers/stalkers' for [insert whichever, sometimes tenuous, marginalisation they can use] and then use it to gain sympathy and defenders from people of the same community. It's so awful. I had no idea Lily had been around for so long. I hope you don't feel bad for believing her, she was actively doing the things manipulative and abusive people tend to do.
This is horrible. I was groomed online multiple times as a minor, and the trauma of being used as a sex toy by a more powerful person and told that it's "sexually empowering" to submit to that treatment never fully leaves you. It doesn't matter if you never meet your groomer in person. It doesn't matter if everything they did was perfectly legal at the time because society hadn't yet caught up to the dangers that exist to children online. It is STILL traumatic to be tricked by someone you admire into engaging sexually with them and not be able to say 'no' without risking further abuse and ostracization by the community. I hope that Lily's victims have all the support they need to recover from what was done to them, and I'm glad you're drawing attention to what kind of predator she is.
These videos are so underrated and need more views.
I may not watch Lily, as I never really liked her, but I still am very grateful for you enlightening lots of others including me on this whole…. situation. 💜
You totally deserve more subscribers.
Not to be rude, but if Lily Orchard is transgender herself, shouldn’t she know the painful feeling of even the thought of being misgendered but she still acts tr@nsph0b!c and inters*x phobic Anyways (She also says LGBTA (Minus inters*x and qu**r because she says qu**r is a slur, so she doesn’t use it on LGBTQIA+.)
I wouldn't worry about being rude to her honestly also since in her eyes Ethel is a hater she does not care. Despite her also being trans it is clear she does not give a single fck
You can still be transphobic if you are trans
Yeah, some people are just extremely hypocritical, it's just like when a person of color acts racist towards another person of color, ppl just don't care
@@lsuki06 Caitlyn Jenner?
why are u censoring intersex?
Doesnt surprise me. I stumbled across her channel years ago and watched some of her videos, she's just...icky. Always negative about everything, "this show is garbage, that thing you like is shit, everything is phobic, and i'm so persecuted" is basically i got from her channel.
Right?????
I thought I was insane because I knew she wrote that filth. and that was the moment I stopped watching her luckily I didn't see any of the sexual stuff when I was a teen cuz I only cared about glass of water. luckily I wasn't much of a fan of her anyways. thank you for making this. I'm so tired of these people who pretend to be left leaning and educated and then use it to disguise abuse. I'm a leftist myself and it makes me feel confused on why people defend her
She really does everything so people don´t find out and if it comes up denies it all and says that everyone who is against her is a terf and a bigot.
We kind of went into this in the previous video regarding what happened at Feminism in India. Abusers (the ones who don't get caught) are very good at not only picking their targets, but surrounding themselves with images that cast as much doubt on their victims as possible, and that's what Lily has done through her public displays. She's driven attention away from what she's doing.
Ah ah ah, not "pretend to be," but actually "are." Don't pretend that the bad people on your side aren't really on your side, they're just pretending, but all the bad people on the other side are really on that side because they're bad.
Your political side has bad people. Every group has bad people. Own it and admit it and police it, be honest and don't whine "they're not REALLY on the left, they're pretending, we're all good pure people. If someone is bad, they must be on the right!" That's dishonest and cowardly and a fake binary.
@@ffordegroupie4931 Whilst your correct in theory, it's worth mentioning that Lily's primary defense in all this has been neoliberal, i.e. right of center. She's making the argument that, if parents can't keep their children safe, the rest of society has zero responsibility to not take advantage of that, extending principle of the free marketplace to all areas of life, in this instance the family. That’s to say, if a family can’t afford food, the child should starve; if a family can’t access private education, the child should go untaught; and that if a family fails to warn them about the ever changing dangers of the internet, the child should be preyed upon by people like Lily.
I find it strange out of your videos and others UA-cam and discord does not deplatform lily with so much evidence of her disgusting behavior. I'm so glad you're bringing her sick behavior to light
That bit about creating a false consciousness by selectively allowing positively loaded questions of tumblr reminded me about something that I feel is worth keeping in mind. Back in the day Lily got caught sockpuppetting to prop herself up in argument that got started in the Derpibooru comment section of a screencap from her blog where she tore at an anonymously asked question. She used both an account specifically for sockpuppetting, her own main account as well as three separate anonymous posters, as well as being the one to post it anonymously in the first place. Given all that and how easy the anonymous question was to tear into, it would not surprise me if she was the one who sent in that anonymous question as a strawman to tear down. Would also not be surprised if she has kept at it, especially since unlike on Derpibooru, there is very little risk of her getting caught for doing it on Tumblr.
When I was a fan of Lily's work back in the day I distinctly remember the Glass of Water she did on Cupcakes that you showed a clip from where she admits to having written Stockholm (at the time I had no idea what it was about and never read it. I only remember her mentioning it and didn't find out what it was about until the Toon Scandal). Out of curiosity after watching that video I checked to see if it's still there and guess what. It's gone. She's trying her absolute damnedest to bury any evidence that she wrote that story.
So I found out about you through Twitter. People saying that you were “Slandering” and “Falsely accusing people of grooming” just so happened to pop up on my feed. But I never take that kinda thing at face value (it’s Twitter for God’s sake lmao) so, out of curiosity, I clicked on your video and watched in full.
All this to say, as a third party who hasn’t heard anything about this situation or the people involved…yeah the evidence is pretty damning. You straight up have sound clips of them admitting to creating abusive material and then lying about it later. As well as proof of them exposing their underage fans to pornographic material and encouraging their fans to send THEM pornographic material?! That in itself is stupid as Hell, but then talking with underaged fans that actually sent them this material?? Lmao this isn’t slander. It’s evidence of a dangerous individual.
Plus whenever a party resorts to name calling or misgendering, I can’t help but side with the other party. Name calling and misgendering happens when you’ve run out of things to argue. This behavior is despicable and pathetic.
Agreed now in this type of situation sometimes you want to be a bit unbiased or neutral cuz you don't know if it's all true it could be stuff made up but the way Lily is responding to all the people calling her out with nothing but name calling and insults and just dismissing them as haters or people who are against her because of her identity I can't help but to think that this might all be true if that's all she has to say.
Lily has a way about speaking that's never sat right with me. She sounds like she's always talking down to everyone she's talking to or talking about. If it's not her way, it's the highway. Very manipulative and points fingers while trying to sweep things under the rug that she herself has done.
MY GOD! I had no Idea that this was going on. I just unsubbed from her channel!! Crazy!! Thank you for making this video.
Same, previous I thought that she was just being criticized for her admittedly sort of bad faith media criticism she presents herself as a validating place for victims of abuse, so this is really difficult for me because I lost one of the few voices telling me I’m allowed to be angry
As a minor who started to watch her recently I am disgusted at how much this awful person has done
With her history of writing vile shit I'm not shocked, but my heart goes out to the victims. I never really liked her or her personality, seeming so anti-intellectualism and void of nuance. Its sad that most criticism of her is based off transphobia, not focusing on what actually makes her awful, which has kept her "safe" from backlash
I was a fan of Lily's years and years ago. She had a patreon level where a user could chat and hang out with her on Skype for a bit, with a video of it being posted. Got to do it, played some Town of Salem, and wasn't treated the best by her. Ended up stop being a fan shortly after for this and a couple other reasons concerning how she treated other folks as well, especially other content creators that were around her level here on UA-cam. She ended up deleting the video after a day or two being up and in return I dropped the Patreon level. There wasn't a fight or anything, more so her talking down to me as I remain socially anxious and awkward as we played. That mixed with how she often treated other folks, she was notorious for being a jerk. I should be clear, I was 18 and while very impressionable and looked up to her as a content creator, I don't believe I was groomed by her but I can't speak on if there was ever an attempt. It's clear she has groomed others here.
She fell hard and she hurt many people in the process. Im so sorry to the people who were hurt by her.
OK, I know this is going to sound weird, but I would like to talk about something that has concerned for the past few weeks related to Lily Orchard...
I have NO RELATION with Lily Orchard's content nor person; In fact, all I know about her outside of these videos are simply some clips related to some of her "controversial" takes. Despite that, there is someone I know who is somewhat close to her and has a lot of respect and care for her...
For those who don't know, I have a friend called "Lolo the Paragon". She has a UA-cam Channel, a Twitter account and even sells some of her stuff online (the keychains are adorable!). She is someone who I hold dear in my heart despite really not being very close and well... I'm worried about her interactions with Lily.
Lolo had many interactions with Lily in recent history mostly related with animation stuff and some of Lolo's projects and well... With all this happening... You can already tell why I'm worried.
I'm worried that Lily Orchard could become a bad influence in Lolo's life and I'm worried that Lolo might be "living in a bubble". Lolo isn't a kid, she is an adult (heck, she is actually my "Major" you could say), but I don't know if she knows about all this, and if she does, then I don't know what are her views and actions of the topic...
I know she (alongside others) could say that I'm "jumping into conclusions very quickly" and I am aware that reacting before thinking leads into trouble (heck, it was the reason why I got into a lot of trouble last year) but... There doesn't seem to be more we can't think off... Like, there is no way Lily Orchard is NOT doign something wrong here.
I trust Lolo, she is someone very responsible and caring, but I fear that one day these interactions she has with Lily will eventually cause her to do or ssy something she will regret. I mean, she already felt bad after the mostly negative reception of the Bruce Timm female design tweet and that was simply a dumb take, what if it was something that is completely dangerous and/ot controversial? Knowing that Lolo is Autistic and that she really cannot handle a lot of stress... I just have that fear that this "friendship" could lead to trouble.
What do you think I should do folks?
Think you can give me a tip or two about this situation?
Hi, there. I'm really sorry you're going through this. I'm afraid I don't have any magic words you can tell your friend, but I have a few pieces of advice.
First and foremost, you have to consider your own safety and wellbeing. That's doubly true if you're a minor. We all want to make sure our friends are okay, but it's not healthy to set yourself on fire to keep others warm. In addition to being prepared to break off your friendship (hopefully it doesn't come to that), also be prepared to communicate your feelings & needs, advocate for yourself and set boundaries.
Second, you have to go into this with the understanding that you can't make Lolo stop following Lily Orchard and you can't even make Lolo listen to you. You can talk to her and explain why you think her choices are going to harm her, but if she still chooses to engage with Lily Orchard, you ultimately have to respect her choices. You can't save someone from themself since that would mean stripping them of their autonomy.
With that made clear, how do you go about this? I don't think there's much you can do other than tell her what Lily is doing, but if you do that, your approach needs to change depending on the sort of person Lolo is. Is she the sort of person who can accept uncomfortable or scary information, or is she the sort of person who gets defensive or shuts down?
If she's more defensive, you may want to start with something small if you can. Comments about how Lily seems scary or harsh, and concerning anecdotes about her behaviour, are easy for Lolo to dismiss in the moment, but can get her used to the idea of Lily being less than 100% perfect.
Once you've done that (or if you can't do that because it's too difficult/draining, which is understandable) you can show Lolo more major criticisms, but still ones that don't include CSA or abuse. EoT's response to Lily regarding the word 'queer' [1] could be a good place to start since it shows that Lily is ignorant and a bit of a hack, but largely leaves Lily's abuse out of it (except for her rape apologetics regarding Tara Reade). I have videos that are a step up from that, discussing the aforementioned rape apologetics in detail as well as Lily's emotional abuse of her audience [2], and deconstructing her dishonest response to my criticisms [3]. Those last two videos might be relevant to Lolo's situation since they concern Lily Orchard's emotional abuse and gaslighting of her adult fans (in addition to her underage fans).
Once Lolo has seen these less heavy videos and had time to process them, she's more likely to be prepared for evidence of Lily Orchard's CSA. For that, in addition to this video, EoT has done a video about Lily Orchard encouraging her ex-friend Josh Burner to groom a minor [4], and Lily Orchard's methods of grooming her audience [5]. Alternatively, if you don't want to share our videos, you can go through our citations and share the evidence directly (and that goes for all the videos I've cited).
Above everything else, though, remember that someone's reaction to upsetting news is always going to be unpredictable and you need to play it by ear. I've given you the best suggestions I can think of, but you need to do what feels right to you in the moment, not what sounds good to me on paper.
I hope this helps. Good luck with everything.
Citations:
[1] "Queer Is Not A Slur - A Referenced Response To Lily Orchard" ua-cam.com/video/O1ByPYkxuyg/v-deo.html
[2] "I Can't Defend Lily Orchard Anymore (RE: Tara Reade, FantasyGate, Abuse)" ua-cam.com/video/wSsw7RPSzOs/v-deo.html
[3] "How Lily Orchard Controls the Narrative" ua-cam.com/video/MFUyy7QwyqE/v-deo.html
[4] "Lily Orchard Encouraged A Friend to Groom A Minor" ua-cam.com/video/qQTvw1L258U/v-deo.html
[5] "Lily Orchard Grooms Her Audience W/ Victim Testimony" ua-cam.com/video/kFuyQPocKY4/v-deo.html
Saying your behavior is "like vaush" is astounding. You are waaay too chill and nice to be anything like him. And to use that as an excuse to misgender is just bizarre.
Honestly that comment itself reminded me of Vaush. The way she made a condescending joke about how little she cares about people she doesn’t is very much something Vaush would do
This hole really has no bottom, huh
Indeed.
I have lived in an abusive home for my entire life. I turned to the internet because it was the easiest way for quick comfort. Being a lonely child I was drawn to Internet personalities, they made me feel safe, and they made me feel as if I knew them, like I really had a connection with these people I had never met.
And to me then, I knew lily orchard. I stayed up and watched her videos, sometimes I would even invent interactions with her, I would often think of her as a maternal figure. She felt like the only one who had the will to stand up for abuse survivors.
I am still somewhat of a child, I am in my teenage years. Watching this now it made me feel disgusting. I was Naïve, I was stupid to trust somebody I didn’t know. All the comfort I derive from these people isn’t real. It made me feel unstable, and uncomfortable.
It felt like I was eight years old again alone in my room and so so desperate for something to make me feel safe. I was so venerable. I could have been hurt. I am hurt. I don’t know what to do with all of this. I feel Greif, and I have no imaginary friends to comfort me now.
I want to ask you if there is anything I can do to feel ok. I don’t even know who “you” is. I just need something or anything to make it make sense. I want an answer. Please
I've been there. I really have. All I can say is that you must rely on yourself, love yourself, protect yourself, dont wait for or seek out someone else to rely on. I hope youre doing better now than you were while writing this.
I have some friends (who are friends or family of close friends and are therefore non-negotiable) who are right wing, with all the associated bigoted views. They often claim to not be bigots because they're "just asking questions", or "just stating facts", while doing the usual fascist talking points.
It's difficult to know what to do about it so I just try to avoid the people or avoid the subjects, but that sort of thing needs to become less socially acceptable. It's baffling when liberal people defend fascists.
This is painful to see. I was a fan of Lily's, a long LONG time ago. Back when she went by the username "Bhaalspawn." Those videos have since been purged from her channel, but I still recall it... And now all of those memories are tainted and ruined by this. Not upset about this kind of behavior being exposed however, oh no, quite the opposite. Good work.
Jeez. Lily's really been falling apart the past couple years. I stopped watching after she complained annoyingly about people complaining about She-Ra. I liked She-Ra, but her focus was more on hating on haters, rather than the show itself. Then I happened to hear she had her own issues with the cartoon. Then she wrote a huge list of things writers shouldn't do, and most of it was blatantly based on a couple of cartoons she'd been watching lately.
I had been a long time fan of Lily Orchard before eventually growing out of it (this was mostly due to me sharing a similar sentiment of how terrible Blizzard treated one of my favorite characters, Sylvanas Windrunner as for why I'd originally watch her). In fact, I remember the 'Mommy Adagio = Alicorn' glass of water and I hadn't considered how bad Stockholm was (mostly as I had no interested in it). To know I had supported someone who NOT ONLY actively groomed minors and misgenders people (while she herself is also trans and has been misgendered in the past so she would KNOW HOW IT FEELS), but would also actively gaslight other people and lie about what she's done disgusts me.
Hopefully more minors can find your video and can save themselves from her.
Lilly misgendering you is pure malice.
Because the first video was the very first I ever watched of you and having no Information on you besides your avatar gave me a very clear idea of what your pronouns might be and he/him is last on my list of possibilities
Jesus Christ she keeps getting worse and worse.
And there is probably so much more we will never find out and I bet she also threatened people into silence.
@@aroace7913 There's always more.
I always knew there was something off about lily. I just wish it wasn't this.
Same. Feel sorry for her victims.
Thank you for discussing this. I was groomed by an abusive ex. I was 34 when we met online, and although we eventually lived together, I've had enough long-term online friendships to also know that they can be just as impactful as face-to-face ones-especially if the victim is more used to online interactions or only has them as an option.
Reading the NSPCC's guidelines for grooming, it feels almost uncanny: My ex was a romantic partner, but also a dominant figure. I mean this literally in the BDSM sense, as it's what we practiced when we were together. While we were, it tended to shape my views of them as an authority figure and mentor in a motherly kind of way. It was supposed to be consensual and healthy, but it wasn't. Instead, my ex groomed me identically to Dr. Welner's six steps (except the relationship became sexual almost immediately): 1. They targeted me randomly online (through a fetish website); 2. They gained my trust through weeks of open conversation and online sexual activity; 3. They fulfilled a caretaker role, whereupon they would take care of me in exchange for cooking, cleaning and sex (which I agreed to as part of a BDSM negotiation we laid out up front); 4. They isolated me by moving me 17 hours away from my family and friends, while also discouraging any and all contact; 5. They started to abuse me, favoring gaslighting, intimidation and verbal condescension and degradation, which took place constantly over months interspersed with love-bombing, hovering, DARVO and threats of abandonment; 6. They constantly resisted me being on my own or with friends, blaming me in ways that might keep me vulnerable, isolated and confused. I eventually detached from the situation by calling them out on their abuse. The moment I did, they threw me out. Luckily for me, I had been talking with family and friends for some time and had an exit plan; it was the only reason I felt comfortable even challenging them to begin with. Before I planned my escape, I found myself regularly doubting my own sanity and blaming myself for their abuse. Talking with loved ones helped break the spell, but even then it was extremely hard to break free.
I'm truly sorry you were put through this by your abusive ex, and I hope you're in a much better place now.
@@EssenceOfThought Thank you! Things are much better now! I am away from them and we do not speak. Instead, I am devoting my time to writing a book about sex-positivity, using it and my artwork to raise awareness towards these types of issues. To that, your videos have been highly influential. I've even shown them to my mother, who speaks very highly of you--saying you're incredibly thorough, intelligent, and well-spoken.
Thank you for sharing that and I hope you are in a better place now.
Horrifying. I used to watch her videos, including when Blame and Groom happened. I was excited to see a reviewer/essayist who was also trans because I needed trans rep at the time to keep me emotionally going- but knowing the awful shit she's done just leaves a worse taste in my mouth. I knew she's denied her spotty history (from denying shipping Elsanna to denying Stockholm) and I unsubbed seeing her takes grow worse and worse, but now? This is terrible. As much as I would say I can't believe I supported her, she posed herself in a way for people like me, those in high school at the time, to take her at her word.
We are not immune to lies.
I've gotten bad vibes from Lily pretty much since I first found out about her. I tried a couple of her videos, and her attitude towards media criticism was so toxic I didn't go further.
The video that got me that vibe was relatively innocuous, too, and before some of the more heinous things she's done had either happened or become known by the wider public. It was her top ten best and worst My Little Pony songs list. As somebody who knows a little bit about music (I'm far from an expert, but I played trumpet in band in high school and took a music history class in college), I could tell her arguments in those videos were bad, but the way they were bad was concerning. She had incredibly arbitrary standards for what made good music. Anything that had heavy electronic elements, especially electronic drums, was automatically terrible unless she could interpret it as satire of electronic music. She called such elements "cliche" which is really stupid. Instrumentation is just one element of creativity in music, and you can use standard instrumentation if you do interesting stuff elsewhere. To give a comparison, it'd be like complaining that a rock song uses electric guitars, electric bass, vocals and a drum kit, and calling that "cliche." That's what rock songs do, and these instruments are hallmarks of the genre. Doesn't mean you can't use other instruments, but a song can still be fantastic just with the standard rock instrumentation setup. Electronic drums and synths are similarly just hallmarks of synth-pop, and their use is not inherently bad. It'd be fine if she just said that she personally does not care for these elements (I have similar feelings in some other music genres) but she says that these musical elements are objectively bad, which they aren't.
And she just has utterly bizarre criteria. She insists that a song sounding good shouldn't matter at all, which not to discount things like lyrics or how the song is used in the episode (which are definitely criteria that you could use to help critically evaluate the songs), but I think most people would think that a song sounding good is a pretty big component of whether a song is good or not. Maybe a particular person might think certain other elements are more important, but they'll probably still agree that sounding good is an important quality.
But all of these pale in comparison to her attitude towards disagreement with her. Her opinion is objectively right and everybody else's is objectively wrong unless they agree with her. She basically outright said this in a side rant in the best list song ranking on the episode "Spice Up Your Life," which had the moral that you shouldn't treat the opinion of any single, very idiosyncratic critic as an objective fact, and should try things for yourself, which she just railed against this moral with such vitriol that it disturbed me. I quickly realized she's setting up a community where her opinion was the only one that mattered. She is the only person that you could trust. It was cultish and creepy, and more than a little fascistic (not the last time that something that she railed against could accurately describe her).
I get that what I just described, while toxic, is minor compared to the grooming and sexual predation, but I feel like it's a symptom of the same root problem (and may arguably be a component of the grooming process): she gets others to trust in her completely so she can use them for her own purposes, but feels nothing for the people she's doing it to. Validation, money, sex, harassing those she dislikes for whatever reason. But she'll toss them aside after they've served their purpose or she can't completely control their thoughts, opinions, and actions anymore. So, yeah, I'm not remotely shocked to find out that she's a sexual predator. It honestly fits the overall pattern of behavior that I've seen of her way too well.
"i don't remember what gender they are" isn't an excuse it's just harassment if lily cared she would just say they/them
edit: i hate the whole "no one would be mad if i was cis white guy" its only deflecting blame and correct me if im wrong but some of the most hated people in the world are cis white guys
I find it very telling how easily she can rationalize misgendering people, when in contrast, despite the fact I think she is an absolutely disgusting human being who doesn't deserve anyone's respect, I would nonetheless never misgender her. Not even for her feelings, but because there is a broader issue at hand in that I don't want to perpetuate that there are exceptions to the rule when it comes to respecting someone's identity. Pretty ironic considering that recent video she made screaming about how no one on the left is left enough for her, yet she can't even conceptualize that the way she treats and interacts with other people as someone with social capital can have broader consequences.
Thank you for making this video. I had been watching Lily's videos on and off for years (not her live streams, my ADHD never gave me the patience) and never realized any of this was happening. I always thought she was fully against grooming, and to learn she is actively participating in it is disturbing and disgusting beyond belief. Unsubscribing and never watching her again. Thank you for opening my eyes to this
I’m so glad I never hopped on the LilyOrchard bandwagon. I think I was introduced to her through her “Steven Universe is Bad” video and while some points I agreed with, didn’t really care for her negative attitude with it (especially since I did like SU at the time).
Completely off-topic, but your icon kind of reminds me of Mia Fey in Ace Attorney!
thank you for making this video. so much of this describes almost my exact experience, and frankly it's just luck that i didn't end up with the worst outcome. thank you for directly stating how minors in her audience who follow her every post and opinion were harmed by her. cause that was me and ive had a weird feeling about it for a while and now i understand why. it's not just cause my opinions changed and i disagree with her on random discoursey topics, it's because i have been harmed by the environment i was in. i feel more prepared to talk to my therapist about it now. thank you again
I'm just realizing a long time ago I watched one of her videos where she was gaslighting and blaming her audience for being too dumb when asking her questions, and that really made me lose support for her at the time. Most of the comments were mimicking her, putting themselves and others down to justify her abusive condemnation. Putting that in the context that she's an experienced child groomer? Creepy as hell.
I never got to the stage of direct interactions or even her tumbler, thankfully my shyness saved me, but as a kid who was being abused by everyone in my life Lily was someone I looked up to deeply. I was probably 12 when I started watching her regularly and the idea that it was okay to be *angry* was something I took immense comfort in and in some ways I feel helped me stay sane in that enviroment. Its sickening to learn that comfort was a fascade she put up to hurt others like me. It's fucking disgusting to learn something that shaped me so fundamentally, that helped me through my own abuse was merely a tool to put more kids through the exact same shit I had already survived. I wish all her victims the best in life and I'm sorry it took me this long to see her as the monster she is instead of the savior she painted herself to be
I was not expecting "this bitch is gaslighting you in the more recent video" and I giggled.
That was the only time I smiled during this grim but necessary video.
I’m sick to my stomach
That's understandable.
Great work as always!
Just when I thought her worst sin was being a bad writer
I've never seen any of Lily's content, and the clips here make me not want to.
You're lucky in that regard.
I’m on the same page, and I’m glad that I came to know her through this channel and not because her original content 💀 Glad once again of never being part of the mlp fandom
I fell down this rabbit-hole today after binging reviews of Hazbin hotel, and like I will have to block this stuff because it makes me feel viscerally ill. It's so easy to get exposed to horrific stuff on the internet as a minor because of predatory adults like Lily. I was a fan of MLP as a child (like 10-12). A young girl, the show's target demographic, and when I looked at stuff about it online I ended up getting exposed to explicit images, writings etc. It does have a big impact. An adult has a responsibility on the internet, they have power. Especially if they build their platform on content aimed at minors. Lily seems to have abused that power over and over. Hope her victims get peace.
keep harley quinn out of your mouth lily :rage:
also augh lily is so gross. as someone nicknamed lily, i do not claim her!
didn't even know they did anything other than 1 Steven universe vid damn
I've seen vids on Lily Orchard for several years now and I still have no idea who she is or why she's popular. That being said, I'm kind of glad now I still go "Lily Who"
And people still support this person???? Even after she used a fake persona to fake a domestic ab-se thing and to get not sfw rps?
Not really she infamously known to block criticism regarding her or her content especially with her Steven universe is garbage video
Yeah, I remember watching one of her videos on Stephen Universe and yeesh. Basically, called the creators of the show Nazi-fascist sympathizers. I mean didn't like the way the show went but geez. Disappointing to hear she's apparently a terrible person to boot.
A show full of LGBTQ+ characters created by the daughter of Holocaust survivors is Nazi propaganda?
It always feels so confusing because as a younger person I really admired the bold approach to all of this. Like the idea of fighting back against your bully and they won't fight back anymore and it actually did work for me once or twice. But it's so sad that like she's actually a terrible person who sometimes gives good advice. Every time I think I find an LGBT person I can look up to on the internet there are terrible person so I'm just stopped looking up to anybody and I feel like that's kind of sad in itself.
Did you took down your 'Why I am an Atheist' video by Bhagat Singh because i am unable to find it
ua-cam.com/video/yx-tUf6e-8c/v-deo.html
@@EssenceOfThought thanks alot mate really appreciate it
"Her UA-cam channel is kept relatively clean." As a more casual former viewer, my experience attests to that. I followed her on Tumblr, yes, but I also followed plenty of other Tumblr blogs, so it was easy for me to miss the kinds of things she'd post there because my dashboard was full of other things. Also, I don't think I ever joined her Discord, and if I ever did, it was briefly before I decided I wasn't interested enough to stay. (I've done that with a lot of popular creators' Discord servers.) I guess this is how so much of her behavior slid past me: I wasn't there to see most of it. I only learned about her nsfw streams this calendar year, from this series on her.
fully aware ive commented before, i just had the realization that the glass of water video where she admits to writing Stockholm is gone- that didnt even register to me, I know ive watched that video before, didnt realize it was gone- when did she delete it? was it sometime when she did the video about Josh? I remember vaguely that i liked the take in that video, i think it was something about how early brony grimdark fanfiction was kinda shitty in terms of writing but i dont fully remember, its been a hot minute since i watched it (obviously). totally aware im focusing on such a small thing compared to everything else, I just cant.. focus on the other stuff without feeling sick. yes i am rewatching as well, I like the commentary even if i cant focus to hard on it
How come you can respect her gender identity but she can't respect yours? It's disgusting
The real question is how come there isn’t any legal action? There seems to be a lot of evidence but she isn’t being confronted
Because the law doesn't exist to protect victims of violence, it never has. It fundamentally exists to protect capital.
oh wow, just yesterday i had started watching lily's videos, the first one being, obviously, the 2 hour steven universe video essay... i didn't know all this! thank you for exposing it, i won't watch her again.
3:54 fucking what now
I didn’t know who is was but I’ve been binging these videos because I am just in shock. As a now adult who enjoyed MLP as a kid, her audacity to have adult consent out in the open is no surprise to me but something so sad.
Thank You
god dam it this is fucked up
Lily Orchard always rubbed me the wrong way, every video I watched of her was so…. Off putting. And I could never pin-point exactly why. For the lost part it was her over aggressive and absolutely scathing critique of children’s media. Particularly Steven Universe? Like yes I know SU is riddled with many writing issues, and I’m not even a fan of the show.. but her criticism felt less like her analysis of the show, and more like a rant on why she had her opinions on it. Witch is fine, I enjoy listening to people rant about things sometimes, but… that wasn’t what it was advertised as. It was advertised as a critical and objective look at the show and that just seemed… not right.
I chalked up the feeling to just that, me not vibing with her content/persona. But now… looking back I can see why she just set off alarm bells for me. Her behavior just in general was concerning, and reminded me of unpleasant things where in I was dragged into a hyper-sexualized environment in the internet when I was little that led to me being desensitized to harmful content (ie, the undertale epidemic of people shipping Frans. Sans x Frans) or to me reading some fucked up stuff at way to young an age. Somehow, I avoided being targeted for any sort of grooming our abuse, but my views on sexuality and abuse have forever been effected and I know this effects my own sexual expression even now. The knowledge that younger me was her perfect victim… terrifies me.
For some reason I can’t edit the comment: but I meant: Frans. Sans x Frisk* sorry bout that
I like that you take the care to use Mackenzii's neo-pronouns :)
“Vaush-like” like. If you were being “Vaush-like” you’d just be insulting her, not calmly laying down factual information
Jesus christ why does Lily keep getting worse the more I learn about the abusive shit she does to her fans behind the scenes?? This is even worse than what I learned about how she treated her sister. How do so many of her fans try to act like she's done nothing wrong while seeing her do stuff like this pretty often???
Though then again from what I've learned in the Courtney expose a lot of her fans are too scared to speak up. So maybe that has something to do with it. Either way good lord. I did not even remotely expect to learn she's exposing minors to her nudes in streams knowingly, exposing minors to links to porn sites and that she's engaging in zoophilia irl!?
I don't get how Lily can keep playing the victim card at this point, I really don't.
I'll admit I had no idea Lily did any of this stuff. Though I never went past her UA-cam page. I stayed away from tumbler because its common knowledge thats a porn page
I wish I were surprised
Im starting to think maybe Lily got kicked out by her parents for doing something to her sister. Seems to be an ongoing theme
the more i hear of lily, the more i realize she speaks like ben shapiro
Looks like by this point she has changed her tumblr to say 18+ only not saying it really changes who interacts nor am i defending her
Never liked her. Not surprised.
Haven't heard lilly in a while I always saw her being odd, boy I never expected she being this bad
Thank You ❤️💖❤️💖
Great work as always!