@@wntiv I mean redstone dust *is* super laggy, it's just that this is the most destructive way of fixing the issue. Mods already exist that reduce the lag but don't change functionality.
I mainly do redstone on Bedrock, so it's kind of funny seeing people get mad about these changes to features we have never had, but I understand that it is very important for pretty much all Java redstone.
why are you acting like this is something set in set in stone that mojang did wrong? normally i side against mojang when they make poor choices in development of the game, but this is literally an "experiement". they explicity state this is just a test to gather community feedback, and will change in the future. what is the point of bringing negativity into it? edit: just to make it clear because some others misunderstand me, i agree that criticism is good and people need to show disagreement, but this video is trying to set mojang up like a villain despite them saying they want to accept it
Also wish he did something like that for the copper bulb, would have really driven more attention to the problems. (Yes, I see you there, trying to say but "but mumbo doesn't want to spread hate towards Mojang" mumbo is very good at constructive criticism, very unlikely for him to spread unnecessary hate. Not directed at you specifically @jimez86, but thought I'd address the most common response.)
@@superbt2027 they use to have a 1 tick input delay, but they changed it to 2, and this made precise timings more difficult. Crafty has another video on that if you want to go into more depth.
its not lying its what was being used at the time and u cant compare stuff from back then to now, its a completely different situation. not all the same people in mojangs team, many changes overall and a far different perspective on the game now to back then. i have some minecraft books still myself which use outdated redstone builds which easily wouldnt work in modern day minecrafts redstone let alone the changes in the experimental version. theyve been saying for years that they wanted to basically find ways to overhual redstone and also stop exploitive farms and this is what they are seemingly now doing. people just got too comfy with exploitive redstone builds and contraptions and now dont like the change cause it affects how easy it was for them.
I think Mumbojumbo had the best discussion regarding QC. If they added an immovable transparent block, no one would care about this singular QC change, and hopefully it would help decrease lag since now every dust wouldn’t necessarily lead to several extra block update checks.
Yes i agree people seem to misunderstand what the actual issue here is. I watched his video first and realized other than the buggy nature of the changes most of them arent actually a big issues.
there are other problems, though. transparent blocks powering isn't the only reason redstone bud updates are needed. one of the most famous circuits, the small crafting-table block swapper, is broken too
Especially since the redstone changes are EXPERIMENTAL. They are not part of the regular snapshot, you need to explicitly enable them in the snapshot, just like the villager trade rebalance.
@@WILD_DRS_OFFICIAL this ia an experimental change, like trade rebalance. They are testing tuff for feedback, thta's literally why those experiments exist
I'm just going to repeat their line of "Concept art isn't a commitment" along with the entire PDB file situation when people say that they *actually* want feedback, if the feedback doesn't fit their agenda, then they wont care at all.
The "knows better" argument has got to be my most despised take in every game ever Thats not how game dev works, at all The devs know how to use their tools the intended way the best They are aware that people use them in unintended ways, but they are not testing their code with the several thousand unintended us cases of all their tools They test their code how the tools are meant to be used on paper 99% of the time, the people who have poured thousands of hours into your game, are going to know it better, then the person that has spent years putting it together And thats just an unintuitive fact of game dev as a whole The players spend thousands of hours working with and perfecting the usage of all of your tools, while you spend 100 times that puting the tools together Since it takes so much more time to put the tools together, you dont get the chance to use them all to their 100% fullest, or even discover what they are really capable of, despite having made them So in the end, the players end up knowing your game better then you do I can not stress this enough Mojang does not know whats best The community and the people who play the game Know whats best
@@ppleberrynd it's such a funny reason when at this point they're actively refusing to bring about version parity on much simpler stuff like sounds lmao.
@@Sucralose2Redstone doesn’t lag the game all that much, “exploits” are often REQUIRED to do certain things, and yeah, beginners give up because it can be super complicated for little return outside of knowing your creation works.
@@Sucralose2 random question to sate my own personal curiosity; do you equate legality and morality? Like, for example, would you say piracy is bad _because_ it's illegal?
QC stands for quasi-connectivity, btw. Since this guy has been so immersed in redstone for so long that the need to explain it never even occurred to him
Yeah he unfortunately he doesnt realize the target audience for redstone is not redstoners, but the minecraft community as a whole. Redstone videos maybe popular but almost no one goes through and actually builds this stuff themselves. 99.9% of people dont even understand how qc works in the game. When i was a kid i thought that qc was a bug, and im sure many others thought the same. Its really no wonder why mojang wants to change things to be more intuitive.
@@cyruskhalvati you could have just edited the first comment instead of making a new one, also if this isn't your first redstone video you should know what quasi connectivity is by now, its use in almost every redstone video so for someone to not know what that is would be damn near impossible, either you bough the game a week ago or your a kid and if you are you wouldn't understand anything in this video, so with the exception of those to condition everybody should know what quasi connectivity is, also no most redstone videos are for redstoners, or better said beginner redstoners, also this video is 100% made for redstoners who hasn't got to test out the snapshot or those who simply do not test out snapshots, so out of all the videos to complain about redstoners not explaining shit this is one of the worst videos you could have choose
@@mihaimiha1727 i did lol. Its a youtube glitch. I deleted the extra reply to prevent spam, thank you for bringing this to my attention. Also, just because I know what something is does not mean the new generation of 6 and 7 year olds entering the game, along with all most all casual players would know. This video is meant for redstoners. The snapshot is not. I was not speaking on who the video was meant for. I was speaking on who minecraft is meant for. Personally speaking i am not a redstoner, though i do watch quite a few redstone videos. The criticisms i fully understand. It certainly takes away from the depth of redstones abilities. This is his video and he has every right to be upset over this. That being said, I find it comical how he doesn’t even consider the average players, or heck even an average viewers perspective. For example youtube pushed this video to me through recomendations, I saw the title and thumbnail and got curious as I do every once in a while with redstone videos, and clicked. Plenty of people in my shoes need a lot more context, and would be utterly confused by the video.
@@michealjaymurphy Minecraft is popular because of the ability to be creative. By breaking one of the major systems of the game, it is now that much harder to be creative. Instead of building new mechanics only to throw them out because it didn’t get enough fake internet votes, they should be introducing new ways to be creative.
@@harrylane4 what % of minecraft players do you think use red stone i would guess its less than 20% probably less than 1% actually do builds that any of this stuff matters also i wouldn’t say tweaking red stone tweaks matter to the bloat of meh content in the game i do agree with the creativity angle but mojang and most people only see that as adding new colours, the game is getting less and less about creativity tho
seems like they just wanted to get rid of inconsistencies and "bugs", although it had the consequence of breaking any contraptions that relied on those bugs
quasi connectivity is on the fine line between a bug and a feature, sure it’s not intended but it never really has a negative impact on players who don’t know about it and it allows the players who do much more freedom
@@LolsTheGreatAndPowerfulI'm sorry but the fix is literally just using transparent blocks most of the time. And in the cases that it's not an option, there are many workarounds. It is generally a lot more useful than harmful.
It's so weird to replace weird, but consistent patterns (location and orientation priorities) with RNG imagine if in the real world your electrician said "oh yeah this light switch will have an equal chance to turn on the light in your bedroom or in the corridor"
@@thebattle7000 i kinda get it, but location/orientation bias is factually weirder (if you define weird as uncommon in the real world) than randomness. What if the computer salesman said: “Oh yeah, make sure this fan in your computer faces east. If it faces north, your computer goes to absolute zero, if it faces west, your computer becomes hotter than the sun, and if it faces south, horses begin to eat babies. Oh, and you are physically unable to place your computer diagonally.”
"Just fix your stuff" I just broke all your pencils, now draw the mona Lisa "But it makes rs easier, more people will do it now!" It makes understanding redstone easier, it makes redstone itself harder because there's less ways to power stuff "Mojang knows better" Yup, that's why they litterally asked for feedback this snapshot
@@shringe9769 when I say function, I mean a group of actions that you can call. I'm not talking about removing the print() function or something like that. whoops
The comment of "Now try making a new one and see that it's much easier and logical now" would be like if the Mojang devs came in to work one day to find a sticky note that says: "From now on Minecraft: Java Edition runs on Python code. We also broke your old java code in the transfer process, but don't worry, re-writing it in python will be easier and so much more logical!"
Honestly don't know if i agree with that logic. I have no knowledge about redstone, but it's not like they're breaking any of the contraptions already made, unless you willingly update your game. If this is genuinely a better foundation for making new redstone contraptions, i think it's a worthwhile sacrifice that old designs won't be as easy to build in newer versions.
@@rolan638It's not just "harder" to build these things. It's straight-up _impossible_ to make a lot of these constructions work now, especially if you want them to work consistently.
@@rolan638 it's not a better foundation just based on changes to redstone dust - it's cuts out a ton of possibilites of using redstone, kills lots of old tutorials on building contraptions and most importantly, for learning redstone specifically, introduces an exception - that being that redstone dust doesn't trigger block updates when powered unlike a ton of "conductive" components. It's an additional thing that you have to remember every time you do something. in programming terms, it would be changing behavior of a function to be inconsistent between all of simular functions in it's library. Hard to remember first time, even harder when actually coding
Mojang: *knows best, apparently* Also Mojang: "Pick between these two things that we already made, and the coolest one won't be added in the next update"
I never got why they didn't just add them anyway, like why have a mob vote at all? Just slate the release for different snapshots, gauge reception, throw out the bad and keep the good, same with features.
4:28 I just had an idea: this could make for Minecraft's version of the Discus Throw event. Estimate how long you need to let the minecart charge up before releasing it so it falls in a marked distance range.
General principle taken from computer science that some of these redstone changes violate: backwards-compatibility. If you are gonna break it, you better have a really good reason and no acceptable alternatives, or you’re going to piss off your users. Redstoners are the Minecraft community’s version of computer programmers, so a lot of the principles of CS development apply to it. A related principle Mojang devs should keep in mind when making changes to red stone: in the words of Linus Torvolds “a bug that people rely on isn’t a bug, it’s a feature”. Quasi-connectivity is a perfect example of that principle.
This isn't the Linux kernel, so don't invoke Linus as if he speaks for you. As a professional computer programmer, and a redstoner, I can see both sides to this. What you don't see is how it limits what Mojang can do with the code, by being forced to keep bugs. But what they need to do is offer an alternative. Maybe a stand-in replacement for the existing dust, so you can opt-in to having the existing functionality, but as a component. Redstone lumps or something.
They are essentially slowly turning Java into bedrock by removing QC. And as a mainly bedrock player I am disappointed that they are doing this to Java rather then changing bedrock.
remember this is an experimental feature not the actual snapshot Edit: this comment purpose IS for the community to not be alarmed because experiments either take a long time to get in the Game or get discarted
@@MrPbhuh you dickriders have majors in writing the stupidest, emptiest arguments on earth. You can say that about literally any mechanic in Minecraft to justify its removal. “We don’t need netherite” “we don’t need cows” “we don’t need more than one tree type” “we don’t need to fight a dragon” That doesn’t make removing the thing okay or positive for the game you thumb. Fact is, the 1 tick function provided entertainment and caused zero issues. Going out of the way to remove it was a negative change that upset players. “It didn’t need that functionality” I could write a more meaningful argument by sending you a picture of the toilet paper wad I just wiped with.
@@MrPbhuh copper bulbs themselves weren't something that were "needed" Before they were introduced. It's not about need, it's about what it becomes useful in. And the 1 tick update feature, that's about as useful in compacting redstone as QC itself is. QC allowed 5-6 block setups to be done in 3, and odd tick updates allowed 4-5 blocks of scaffold setup to be done in 1. So if odd tick updates weren't a "needed" Thing, neither is QC or minecart stacking. But of course they are very much needed.
This situation reminds me of one time Linus Torvalds chewed out a dev for trying to "fix" something in the Linux kernel. There is a golden rule in Linux kernel development: Never break userspace (i.e. the applications that run on Linux). If there's something that doesn't work as designed, but fixing it would break applications, too bad, your bug is now a feature and you are not allowed to "fix" it.
Linus sounds insufferable to work with. If you have to exploit a bug to do certain things, then make it a feature in some other way. Breaking backwards compatibility is something that must inevitably be done, or adding new features, fixing performance issues, and fixing bugs becomes more of a hassle.
@@michaeltesterman8295 That is where the Art joins the programming, some things have been a certain way for so long that "fixing" it would have unimaginable ripple effects.
@@michaeltesterman8295 And then the internet goes down inflames because everybody Linux webservers and routers go down and the global economy loses $5 trillion dollars updating everything. I'm sure its not this drastic in reality, but when things are out there in the world, making the world work, making major changes comes at a cost. Sometimes that cost makes an improvement in the Kernel not worth it.
They should absolutely simplify restone by getting rid of the strange loopholes and just make new redstone tools to replace them, it’s crazy they haven’t made some time of “insulated redstone” that can be placed vertically and only powers things that it directly points into
@@bonD6002this. But I have a better idea. Actually make redstone useful in the normal game along with copper. Cause rn there is no reason to mine redstone. If they added electric fences to keep mobs out of a large area you fence off regardless of light level that would be pretty cool.
I feel like out of all the problems with copper bulbs, the worst is that it would also gatekeep reliable redstone ladders behind either finding and stripping the copper bulbs from dozens of trial chambers, or behind going to the nether
@@guilhermerafaelzimermann4196 I agree this is a bad change, but... "going to the nether" is a gatekeeper? I feel like if you're at a stage in the game where you need redstone ladders, you can deal with a couple fiery bois
Indeed their will be that said these changes are aimed at making redstone lag less in multiplayer. Honestly the change sucks if you do loads of complex redstone builds but is good for the rest of the community.
@@darth3911the fact that mojang is doing a worse job of making things more lag friendly then mod devs is just amusing to me. Carpetmod and Lithium are boath great for servers and they don't break shit like that.
honestly redstone seems like such a complicated and delicate process/mechanic that any major change that isn't specifically adding new types of functionality/blocks would just absolutely destroy any and all current builds more complicated than putting a pressure plate next to a door
it's basically programming (thus complexity depends on how compact you [have to] make it), thus depending on how major the change to existing mechanics it could even be possible to break the pressure plate next to a door mechanic or it could not impact anything. the problematic part is you don't know for sure it didn't break anything you did until you tested everything again, depending on a contraption's complexity such a test could take up to days or even weeks of fulltime work (because every possible input has to be tested at least once better multiple times, the contraption has to process it and spit out the expected output every time, which even tickwarped could take several minutes per testrun depending the player's hardware), especially with randomness becoming a possible issue, you'd have to make sure every wiring has been used several times without deviation (and even then you could just have been lucky). if instead of random they'd make that part directional, it would still break many contraptions but the work testing and trouble shooting it would be reduced massively as the behaviour is reliably consistent instead of random. it's similar to how programs written for Windows won't necessarily run at all on Windows for ARM, heck or like programs for Windows might break due to a Windows update. with the difference being you usually paid to use those programs while only a very small number of redstoners get paid enough for the content they create to do that fulltime.
A. It's deterministic in a really obfuscated way that the average player would hate running into. You move your device one block to the left and it stops working? It would drive people insane B. Easy access to rng is actually useful for many contraptions
@@quorryraphael9980except that it fundamentally breaks SO many things, it would be like removing the mending enchantment. Is it technically probably better for the game? Sure, I guess, but it’s such a massive hindrance to the existing playerbase NOBODY would be happy with it
9:49 They're not trying to get rid of QC, they're trying to make dust less laggy. So I don't think the other components are going to be affected as well. Plus this is an EXPERIMENT it's not even in the snapshot by default.
@@HappyGickye qc is confirmed to be a feature, we had a whole thing where they "fixed" the bug, but then added it back bc everyone complained about it
@@HappyGick Fabric 0.15 finally patching a bug they hadn't noticed, breaking several mods that used to rely on an obscure undocumented feature of a bug: "Lol, no, now go clean your code and make it behave or mark it incompatible with Fabric 0.15+, this was a bug that broke intended features."
I really like the redstone update order with the randomness better than locationality. I think running a circuit 3-4 times is a better sanity check than recreating the same machine in 4 different rotations and then reflecting it as well. The changes to block updates need to be rolled back nearly entirely. Dust needs to be able to update pistons it runs next to, or it makes redstone much more difficult to deal with
I also think the introduction of Signal Strength Priority is very useful and intuitive in a way that adds functionality rather than takes it away. They just need to figure out how to implement powering outside of redstone dust (all of Crafty's examples of defiance of the change are because the power isn't from shared dust).
@@U.Inferno There is the example with shared dust that is powered directionally with the levers. I think directionality is fine (there needs to be directionality in the game, that's just how it works), but I think working to remove locationality is good, since there isn't a need for it.
@@DissyFanart You either need directionality or randomness, and randomness just takes away players ability to choose directionality over having to re-design their circuit. You probably have not spent significant time in storage tech, where testing devices for hundreds of millions of items is normal. Every case of randomness doubles the testing required, and it already takes days of tick sprinting.
I strongly disagree. A simple directional solution would be better. We have plenty of tools for rotating and copying a build, and it's easy to just try each rotation and be certain something works than to repeatedly test a single rotation an infinite number of times till you are certain it wasn't chance.
Ah, the age-old problem of software development that once you release a tool and it gets popular enough people will start to build upon the bugs and weird implementation quirks, and it becomes impossible to fix or update anything without breaking somebody’s workflow.
12:30 mojang knows better than people making bloody pokémon in redstone how redstone works? people are legitimately saying mojang knows better than the people making bloody computers in the game with redstone how redstone works? what a load of tripe
For a non-redstoner myself having to battle endlessly the nonsensical item orientation placement sounds like a migraine when mixed with random results.
EDIT: i hadn't built it in so long I forgot a step when testing it. so yes, it does work, i just have a bad memory. oopsie the block update change breaks the jeb door in the original minecraft redstone handbook
To be fair, the reason Sculk sensors didn’t become ubiquitous with wireless redstone is because it’s connected to content that frankly still scares a lot of people to even get close to. The only thing that would really get more people to use redstone is either a pretty big overhaul to redstone (like what redpower used to be or a cog system like Create) or make redstone play a more central role in Minecraft progression (just like how tech modded Minecraft has everyone do some sort of ore processing). As someone who’s been in and out of playing Minecraft for almost its entire history, it is a bit weird how redstone progression works. Minecraft has you running around making all sorts of weird farms and doing odd tasks. From an outsider’s POV, why does wiring require you to raise bees, mine in a hell dimension and breed humanoid creatures? It’s just all too weird and contrived for the average player. Which is why I think the vast majority of players just play Minecraft like it’s adventure mode+. Mine some ore, fight some mobs and build an ugly house.
or use creative mode. Most redstoners just use creative mode because the progression in survival makes certain mechanics difficult/impossible to exploit. For example, netherite blocks are the only blast-resistant piston-movable blocks in the game. Mumbo Jumbo has a video where he makes a fortress where the walls are pure netherite blocks to exploit this unique property. This would literally take years to obtain in survival, so people just don't.
Honestly, they should just let us make Copper wires. Two copper and a redstone, bam, stack of three copper wires, place them on a wall, the floor, the ceiling, WHEREVER. Maybe let us use three iron in a line to make cable stands that let copper wire go vertically without full block supports. Redstone dust could be the cheaper, safer thing, whereas copper wires could hurt the player like cactus if touched.
@@SnivyTries Yeah, that's a neat alternative! We can have simple, contained, more precise redstone by using copper wires instead, but leave regular redstone alone. Maybe one could even use beeswax to coat the wires so they won't shock players too. (Or introduce rubber trees to the game & allow jacketing the wires with rubber. Wouldn't be the first time they've added mod stuff to vanilla.) EDIT: Or maybe we can use slime instead, since it's bouncy like rubber.
Same core ways any computer does psuedo-random values since fundamentally redstone is just electronics. Which is to say, math wizardry and complexity. Also I think occasionally it was by like… using growing cactus and such to get semi-random timings.
Dropper randomisers mostly. When powered they spit out one of the items in its inventory. The most simple design is 50/50 by using a non stackable item (like a sword) and a stackable item (Dirt) which give different outputs when read by a comparator.
As a casual redstoner, that really loves to do redstone when I play minecraft, but I play minecraft once or twice a year, Locational redstone stuff: I like it, I think it makes it more understandable for the avarage player, even if it might confuse the top most redstoners in the world. I just dont like how lever position affects stuff, I think it should be solely based on redstone power and not on lever positioning. When debbugging, I would never think of lever positioning and I dont think most people would, but you could redo the whole system using solely redstone power, and if redstone power is the same, its random, I'd like that. I would never ever think of positionality so if something I made randomly came across that, I would just be stuck. Minecart stuff: Most stuff are cool, I really don't get why mojan would remove minecart stacking, no one saw that as a problem, for a casual player, theyll almost never try that, and for the tryhard redstoners its useful, so I dont get why you would remove that. QC stuff: As a casual redstoners, I don't ever really use QC (as most redstoners don't, only the big brain redstone youtubers really use that and everyone else copies their stuff), QC is more of an annoying thing that seems to randomly turn on stuff when I dont want them, so Im not affected by this change, but QC is so ingrained in minecraft redstone that I definitly agree that its a problem to basicly kinda remove it like this, specially considering how much stuff that are probably already built in people's worlds will just break now. For the arguments you said at the end: Just fix your stuff: I agree with you and I'd reiterate how that would break stuff that is already built in people's world, giving a lot of people a lot of trouble rebuilding stuff. But it makes it easier: While what you said about youtubers bringing people to redstone is true, the easier redstone is also true, I had never even attempted wireless redstone before the skulk sensor, now its something I do pretty regularly, easier redstone not only atracts more people to redstone, but it also fixes one of technical minecraft's biggest problems, that is that people just copy stuff, copying stuf is boring, and its no surprise that most people see building farms as a chore, copying is boring, making ur own farm is fun, simpler mechanics help with that. Ever since 1.14, Ive always made my own iron farms, cause now they are so simple to make that I can make it myself and get a lot of iron, before I had to copy. Mojang knows better: Agree with you lol
VERY good point. With simpler redstone, it'd be easier for a newbie like me to actually figure it out for myself, instead of having to copy builds all the time, which I only find tedious & frustrating. Getting to actively experiment with redstone behaving in a more direct, predictable manner would get me to actually come up with devices myself, or logically be able to figure out how to build what I want without having to look things up! :D
@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her You aren't any more likely to make something original now, than before. QC/BUD powering only is a concept for experts that already know what they're doing and are making novel designs. People that don't know anything, nor develop unique mechanisms,. aren't going to start doing that now that a complex interaction they have no concept of, no longer exists. They're still going to just copy whatever is the most popular vid on YT.
@@tristanc3873 Speak for yourself. My actual main obstacle has been that I keep accidentally making BUDs & it keeps my attempts at tinkering from working. No cap.
@@tristanc3873 u end up doing QC by mistake. This has happened to me many times, where a piston that logically shouldnt turn on simply does. Unless u r an expert, u will not really understand much about QC, so itll be hard for you to figure out why that piston is turning on randomly.
I agree with QC being unwanted/annoying - I don't make redstone videos, but I *do* make redstone contraptions of my own, and the only time QC gets used is when I didn't want it to occur at all and have to redesign something to avoid it. Normally redstone works by blocks being powered, but as far as I can understand it QC is effectively "powered air" and spits in the face of "I *don't* want this thing powered" logic.
@@sychro_1122in the example shown during the video, only the piston the lever is facing triggers. the next segment at 2:50 also shows this. as all levers are facing north and south, only north and south pistons trigger.
@@DartzinhoV so it's just coincidence then that every time levers were pointed at the pistons they triggered? alright. but you understand why we assumed the correlation.
Just like what purplers said, there are all ready mods out there (forgot the name of them) that fix the problems that mojang are trying to fix without breaking anything. And I wish mojang would take ideas from mods again like they did with pistons and horses. Prof that the players know the game better than the developers.
alternate current and fast redstone dust. i was gonna mention them but forgot during recording lol. the creator of alternate current, spacewalker, actually wrote a response that you can find in the description
"Prof that the players know the game better than the developers." No they don't. The players think the game is a linear RPG where progression is the point of the game. Shut up.
I honestly like the changes to redstone (if they fix the bugs) cus it's pretty cool how I don't have to go around copy-pasting every. single. goddamn build to see if it's locational or not.
gotta specify what changes you mean, the locationality changes are a step bit the right direction imo, the QC(quasi connectivity) changes are like a voyager 1 probes distance in the wrong direction.
8:40 the copper bulb strikes again with another use that Mojang didn't completely intend, hopefully they won't get rid of that use case like they did with the original tick delay Anyways the real reason these redstone changes are bad is because it doesn't even bring movable tile entities, surprised that wasn't something they put in this experiment, especially since they've shown in the past that pushing a chest with a piston won't cause the universe to implode (Bedrock edition, the April Fools 2023 snapshot...)
@@1th_to_comment. it would be a first non entity moveable storage(like minecart with chest/ hopper), so it wont need a supporting block below it. It would be a reliable desired signal strenght generator, unlike shulker boxes which are pretty much only 1 specific signal strenght, no signal strenght at all or randomness. You could also make like a chest swapper which is useful for compact storage systems, small houses or places where there is a lot of the same stuff so the chest can be changed with a new one( this storage thing can also be done with the shulker boxes but thats late game and you would have to have a more complex machine). There is also a lot more stuff that dont pop at the top of my head right now. The redstone community would find many great ways to use it. The reason no one curently uses it is because a lot of people that actually build restone are on java and most youtubers play java so they never show of this feauture in bedrock and the community doesnt know about it.
'Mojang knows better' is very silly given they're very much asking for feedback on this snapshot. I expect the changes to dust will be undone definitely, possibly all the changes since people have been so vocal about their dislike of them
I personally think that the “redstone dust block update”-thing (everything in red in your video) is just an oversight from Mojang. An unintentional consequence of the redstone dust performance updates. An edge case they forgot to test for. I also think they knew there would be edge cases they had missed, and that is why is it an experimental feature, and not part of the next update.
I think it would be cool if max minecart speed was more like 30-50, but normal powered rails stayed at 8-10. Things like wind charges, downward inclines, vertical drops, collisions, or maybe explosions propelled the speed further. It’d be really cool to launch minecarts at default game rules with a bit of engineering
It's an experiment after all and I'm pretty sure that they will fix and adjust the changes according to the community feedback overall if you assume they're going to fix these issues it's a very good update
@@bangtannugget784 half of the supposed feedback is in videos where people are acting like we need a call-to-action and scream as loudly as possible at mojang or else they're going to release this in the next update. it's annoying. they're listening to us, so why are we pretending that they're not?
there are still bugs in the game from the first versions, the earliest ones still open affecting version 1.4 upwards were reported when they launched the official bugtracker in 2012... obviously you can't assume anything will get fixed for sure and especially not without years of delay. one of them (MC-201) is adressed in this snapshot and the way they said, how they plan to fix it, is genuinely a good compromise, making it a toggleable clientside setting. of course that's not even the earliest reported bug that's still open.
@@robblly8112 do they really listen though? Can you remind me what happened with all the feedback about copper bulbs? Oh right, it got completely ignored. Of course people will stop huffing hopium that "surely this is the time where they're listening" and try to get some noise going. What is even annoying about the redstone community trying to spread the message? Crafty even included a minecraft dev's YT comment ignoring the complaints for people like you 💀
I’m all for making Redstone more intuitive and friendly, it’s a very powerful feature that more players should have access to outside of trying to follow tutorials step by step, but Mojang really needs to be careful with almost any change they make, Restoners are insane and any feature is made use of in some way, so any changes can completely destroy previous methods and contraptions, so it has to be either detrimental to an overall good gameplay experience, and/or you have to fill the gap with something new. And that’s always going to cause backlash. Mojang would probably love if we just did their job for them, so make sure you give feedback and offer practical solutions and potential changes. Complaining doesn’t fix whatever problem Mojang was trying to fix.
I mean people also complained that mojang removed afk fishing and zero tick farms on java... it broke a lot of farms, but that doesn't mean that its bad... people just adapt to it....
Filling the gap with something new is the best thing they can do for the players that love tinkering, and care about that more than just the result. While players are proud of their creations, the point of the game is the act of creating and not the finished product. It can of course still be annoying if your creations don't work anymore, or if you are in the middle of a large project and have to abandon it because it gets fundamentally broken...
3:48 I pose an additional question: Which is more intuitive: device works consistently regardless of position and orientation in world or device breaks if you copy and move it to another place? My vote is the first. The next question is: should the length of redstone have any impact on the triggering of redstone components? This is what is consistent across other uses of redstone. Should redstone traveling from north to south act differently than redstone traveling east to west? This seems like strange behavior and an expectation from redstone. Finally, what should the behavior be for a corner case when a single lever triggers a line of redstone that splits and goes to two different pistons with the same length of redstone dust? I see two possible options: randomly choose or both fire simultaneously and break the pistons. I think both would be reasonable outcomes, although the second would likely piss off a lot more people by physically breaking their existing builds instead of just logically breaking most builds. There is clearly some confusion or an issue (bug) with respect to the impact of lever direction in the more complex cases, but without further and more extensive testing, it’s hard to determine which it is. Likely it’s a bug that should be fixed and got overlooked when updating the redstone dust itself. Only bug reports will indicate which.
@@spyseefan975I concur when possible. There’s clearly a drive towards parity and having an easily maintainable code base for the health and longevity of the game and to simplify the amount of work that is required of current and future developers. There’s nothing worse than having a bug you cannot fix because the code is too difficult to figure out or because the code is too fragile. That being said, I have no doubts that the developers of Minecraft love this game as much as anyone else and it’s difficult to make everyone happy. Choices will have to be made. Thankfully, these are merely experiments right now where they can try out new things, get feedback from players, and figure out how to accomplish what they wish to accomplish and keep as much of the community as happy as they can.
Wow- even as someone who has done a ton of redstone I hadn't put thought into the weight of the redstone block update change definitely glad this is experimental, because that's usually when Mojang is looking for feedback the most
my guess is that the Quasi connections breaking was unintentional, our goal should be to shed light to it so they understand how important Quasi connectivity is so they fix it. Other than the Quasi issue though, the redstone dust changes are good, they may break some old machines sure, but it'll allow for more reliable redstone, and fix some old issues we've had for ages
Am I mistaken in my understanding that the change to redstone dust updates is what broke Quasiconnectivity? I dont know how we would keep the change where redstone updates less of its adjacent blocks while fixing the issues with being unable to update an airgaped piston with direct powering of the adjacent air block.
@@nullvoid3545 there's basically 2 changes to redstone. The change in "randomness" which removed positional and orientational wires, making the shortest wire take "priority". And the block update change, which as far as I know, is what broke Quasi connectivity. I'm not sure if they can fix Quasi without completely reverting the 2nd change, it would be nice if they found some way to do it, because having pistons that don't update or Quasi themselves unintentionally in "simple" door designs is annoying. But we had to choose, keeping Quasi is the right choice. Wouldn't want to split the redstone community into different versions again.
Yeah, it sounds like it was really just a lag reduction measure, perhaps redstone causing a bunch of updates at once was bad for server lag or something, who knows. And they didn’t check it to see if it still works with quasi stuff cause it isn’t an explicit feature that they have data for. If redstone builders are vocal enough about this (which they seem to be) then I’d expect this to be fixed in a snapshot or two. After all they did say multiple times in the announcement snapshot that they want to work with the community on this
@@noizepusher7594 yeap! been going around liking videos like this to make sure Mojang sees one of them. I just hope they actually try to find something that will satisfy everyone and not just revert to the old mechanics
@@noizepusher7594 Redstone dust does cause a lot of lag (around 44 block updates per dust), but there a mods such as alternate current which adds a more predictible update order, and improves performance ~5x, and fast redstone dust, which preserves vanilla behavior entirely, and gets around a 3x improvement in speed. This, along with good building practices makes redstone dust not too laggy.
I'm no redstoner, but I have been following this saga closely. A lot of the feedback has been along the lines of "change it back" and "directional > random." People get scared that Mojang won't listen. Which... fair, but I think there's an opportunity here to explore unique solutions that could offer the best of all worlds. The way I look at this experiment and I hope Mojang does too, is as a sandbox of "what if?" to see what could and couldn't work. Could there maybe be new components that address some of the issues introduced? I've seen suggestions like using bluestone as a sacrificial lamb of sorts to receive these changes instead. Or perhaps a randomizer block, since "Mojang wants to inject randomness so badly," or even a gamerule! However, I think these ideas are unlikely to be implemented as they somewhat miss the point of the changes. A cool suggestion I saw from Technical Aspect for eliminating randomness without resorting to directionality was to have updates happen clockwise. Though, even then, mirroring builds would still cause problems. It made me think, what if, since the order already somewhat depends on the direction of the power source, it could rely on power sources even more? Alternate power sources could influence how the redstone line behaves! For example, a copper lever (or waxed, or whatever) that changes updates to happen anti-clockwise (for Technical Aspects suggestion), or a charged redstone block that causes the line to emit block updates more aggressively like before. These are obviously half-baked ideas, and I have no idea if they're possible or how acceptable they would be as a compromise to redstoners, but I would love to see people flesh out more suggestions along these lines, even if there's no way they'd be practical, then just as a thought experiment on why not
the problem is clockwise based on what, the build(not really feasible and definitely very laggy from all the checks that would be needed) or based on the world which would reintroduce locationality because of your quadrant(e.g. +/- would behave differently from -/+)
I think it would be super confusing if there was a new version of Redstone Dust, that's new feature was the very unintuitive "they don't update the block beneath them, not allowing Quasi Connectivity".
Honestly, quasi-connectivity in its current form sucks. A new player would never figure out this mechanic unless they are doing excessive tinkering. This change does streamline the learning process of redstone, but that does not mean it is good. A new block or something you could add to a block to get the same mechanic while making more sense for a newer player to logically deduce by themselves, instead of being forced to go off platform to learn how redstone works will always be a better approach. In my opinion, Redstone needs what crafting has gotten a long time ago. You no longer need to go off platform to learn and know how to craft certain items, so why does redstone still suffer from this issue? I LOVE how they are trying to make the redstone bode well for new players by introducing/reworking mechanics that seem more like a bug than a feature, but without giving players the ability to do similar or a more responsive version of what was previously possible it is completely astonishing how they take away instead of reflavouring it.
I don't think Redstone will ever be as accessible as crafting. Learning Redstone is a lot like learning a mini programming language; unless you're really into it, you'll outsource for big projects and use pre-made designs for little ones. But I agree with you that there should be a dedicated QC block, and preferably, it should be a slab to break as few things as possible. The QC change was to reduce lag, but if they had a block that acted the same but used less obtuse/multi-layered processes, it could probably still work
Honestly this just feels like Mojang making stab in the dark changes without understanding how the community views the things their changing or their uses. I think this speaks to a larger problem of Mojang/Microsoft having no actual idea what to do with Minecraft.
At 0:20, good texture change; it also doesn't mean you can't revert it back if you want to or change it however you like with the added textures. At 2:22, I think the fix for that would be to simply activate the piston that the lever is facing towards. So, at 2:22, the non-activating piston should've been the priority; if the lever was facing towards the piston that was activating, that one would take priority. Overall, I think fixing the random weirdness of redstone sometimes not working is good, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the speed and reliability of redstone builds. At 4:51, MoJang should not have removed this feature, as many people, myself included, have used it for killing chambers, storage systems, super smelters, etc. My guess is they changed this either due to the bug of having Minecarts move by themselves without rails or causing lag, but the simple solution is to either have a limit on the amount of minecarts (preferably until entity cramming 25) or make it so the minecarts exist but only one of them is visible unless an entity is present. At 5:30, directional minecarts are massively important for a lot of redstone builds. The animation should still exist, but having it align directly in the middle of rails instead of aligning on the hitboxes of the rail is not good; "unnatural" is a good word, even without redstone in mind. At 5:45, MoJang's space program. At 7:30, Mojang messing with quasi-connectivity and redstone dust acting as block updates is never good news. So many redstone builds rely on redstone giving block updates; I don't really see why this was changed, other than lag reasons maybe, but that's when you apply the logic of making redstone dust block updates optimized, not removing it. Copper bulbs may be a solution, but it will also still cause tons of lag from light/block changes. Redstone, in general, should have the mindset of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it, optimize what is" (by optimize, I mean purely to remain functional but fix the lag issues they potentially cause). At 10:55, all of Mojang's excuses or people defending the changes are from those to whom none of these redstone changes apply. Instead of asking the opinion of people who don't use "complicated" redstone, ask the people who use these features daily! It's more important for people who use redstone consistently than for the player base that avoids it. Even if they want to dip their toes into redstone builds, content creators can give block-by-block tutorials explaining how to do what you want it to do. Changes like this are problematic because literal years of redstone builds that worked flawlessly have been undone and need to be fixed. Tutorials from 5-6 years ago possibly even longer that were reliable and easy to build now need new designs and explanations for new players and current redstone builders. Overall, I think fixing redstone in terms of lag reduction or making it more approachable is good, but only if the underlying functionality remains unchanged. In my opinion, what's so great about redstone is how it has barely changed since it was added. If you were willing to learn it, your redstone builds from years ago would still work; Etho Plays Minecraft is a good example of this in his survival world. I feel like Mojang tested how the community would respond by changing redstone dust to the dot/cross and realized people didn't mind it, but they didn't mind it because it didn't break everything. At most, it was a minor inconvenience with simple fixes. Mojang should never go headfirst with "We need to completely revamp and make everything NEW and FRESH." Some things in Minecraft don't need complete overhauls; they just need to be optimized and reliable. Anyways, I appreciate it if you read this far. Or TL;DR: Fun fact-I don't even play Minecraft much anymore but still took an hour out of my time to defend a small portion of Minecraft's community because I care about the direction they're taking and how important "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is when it comes to one of my favorite games. Also yes I used ChatGPT for punctuation because I ain't got time for that.
I'm going to be real, I always hated these glitches being consistent. It put a lot of random ass functionality into the game that no one could ever organically figure out and a lot of it bypassed intentional redstone limitations. If they were at all intuitive then I'd be all for them, but this was all way too opaque.
This is really a showing of the addage: if the program has a bug, but the user base incorporates that functionality (or lack thereof), then it is no longer a bug but a feature.
Well I always hated 1 thing about QC. You can't make a sticky piston with a redstone block face upwards, because once you power it, it WON'T retract. But none of these changes fix that. And I'm not really a redstoner but I'm still kinda pissed off that you can't stack minecarts anymore.
@@deringjosuegarcia1531 mostly its a problwm for technical players. There are some fairly involved machines that largely only work because of stacked minecarts. But there is the more relevant fact that this affects tnt minecarts, which has a niche affect on multiplayer
I feel like the randomness should be a 95% posetive thing. You can still control it by building correctly. But now you have the added option to add randomness to a build. Something that can be very usefull and was hard to achieve before.
My thoughts: I think randomness is a welcome change. I use piston randomizers in Bedrock Edition, and I needed a way to use RNG besides dispensers in Java. The minecart changes are great in my opinion, except for the minecart stacking. I thought it was really fun to use in Java with TNT minecart cannons and nukes. Hopefully it doesn't change. Quasi-connectivity is what made Java's redstone mechanics unique, and I REALLY don't want it removed, even if just for redstone dust. They can at least add an option for QC that is on by default.
@@XNorYT Not even JAVA's redstone, QC isn't what made redstone Unique. Redstone is what makes Redstone unique. QC is not necessary for Redstone to be unique. Relying on an unintuitive bug made feature is not a great idea.
@SioxerNikita My point is that changing java's redstone system would permanently ruin some builds that utilize it, including some of mine. If Mojang wanted to fix QC, they could at least make it an option.
@@XNorYT Being too stuck in the past, is going to stop progress... They are completely rebuilding the back end of Minecraft Java at the moment, if you haven't noticed. Stuff will break... They've made plenty of changes that have ruined builds over time, why should QC SPECIFICALLY be an exception?
no, because you can’t show yourself how cool it can be, calling it jank because in a few niche cases it behaves in strange ways would make practically everything on the planet jank. i taught myself redstone and made 3x3 piston doors and super smelters, albeit very ugly doors and smelters, well before learning from people like matbatwings. if you found redstone too hard, sorry but it might just not be your thing
@@agingerredhead9380 yeah cause there isnt much cool stuff, redstone could be removed from the game and little to no impact would be had on the survival gameplay, sure it would still suck as its a great feature. also the most fun ive ever had with redstone is when i dont know how to do something, so i try to figure it out, as opposed to copying someone elses solution (exept for stuff like update supression or whatever cause thats complicated and a bug)
Personally, I think that everything except the Minecart snapping issues and block update thing is overall positive. But those two are such a blunder it’s not even funny.
I think the minecart stacking thing is also bad imo, it breaks tnt minecart stacking and entity cramming traps. tnt minecarts are already pretty niche because of the setup required, removing stacking makes them even less useful. entity cramming traps are pretty much just a convenience but it's still gonna be annoying to lose that option when the alternatives tend to be less consistent and less compact
This snapshot caused a lot of lag with the 0 tick redstone doors not working anymore. The pistons were stuck expanded and redstone torches were blinking on and off then stops. When the redstone torches stopped blinking, the game lagged then crashed. The redstone dust on a transparent block bugs out and turns off when you power the top redstone dust on and off. This snapshot affected all redstoners and youtubers projects entirely. Nothing works the same anymore. 😭😭 Mojang needs to fix the redstone dust block updates.
This isn't a snapshot. It's under the "experimentals" tab and is exactly that: experimental. The snapshot didn't effect all redstoners and youtube projects because nothing was added into the game.
@@ondururagittandeska2004 Going to diagnose based on what I know of OG minecraft having had a bug like this when hoppers were first introduced: this is a clock burnout not burning out and causing issues. The crash is probably an out of memory of some kind. It's SUPPOSED to stop the impulse from continuing when the torches burn out by freezing the circuit either on or off. This is exactly why you don't whine that your redstone crashed and instead go post a bug report with your error log, if there's a memory leak it's not a whine in youtube comments issue, it's a "report it to Mojang" one.
Just to be clear here: I have watched the whole video and I'm aware of all the utility of QC and the like. I like being able to use some of the funky behavior like QC, but it can also be really annoying when it happens on accident. For people who don't know about it, they will be completely confused as to why their circuit isn't working as expected which can be frustrating. I think that more consistent behavior (especially directionality and locationality) will make it much easier for people to build and share their designs with others. Unintuitive behavior only causes confusion for the vast majority of people who don't know about all the quirks of redstone. With the new updates, I hope that Mojang will make redstone more user-friendly, intuitive, and reduce the learning curve. Making designs that utilize QC allows advanced players to make more complex contraptions and can ultimately be better for many people. I just don't think we should have inconsistent and unexpected behavior in something that's supposed to be logical.
Yeah I see your point. Then maybe it's better to just add a separate set of pistons, idk, could be deepslate/blackstone one, maybe called heavy pistons or smth, that would have Bedrock's functionalities like lack of QC (cause idk, let's say "logically" speaking, the QC is too weak to affect the heavier pistons)? Ofc then all pistons on Bedrock would have to be converted into heavy ones, and the base, stone version would have to be given the Java's functionality? Ofc could also be done the other way around. The problem also lies in the fact that new redstone stuff does not attract many ppl to try out redstone (if anything, it could make them less interested, because "oh there's so many components to learn") and that most ppl get into redstone by watching, recreating the designs of others, tweaking a few things here and there, and thus slowly seeping into changing the circuitry, learning how individual components work. That means that by making redstone more annoying for Redstoners on either platform usually just means that less cool contraptions can be made for newer versions, thus actually staggering or lowering the amount of ppl doing redstone. A good example is how you have designs that worked for, like, 10 years, and now suddenly do not work and ppl who just got into minecraft are just spamming the 10yo videos with "does not work", "pls I use you other designs, fix this" - many will go the "easy" way out by asking the author (who might not even play MC anymore) to adjust the design to new version rather than trying to thinker it themselves. (btw, the side-effect of such comments might be that the video will start getting dislikes (or even insulting comments) for not working now, even thou it did work for so long, and thus also possibly lowering the chance that people playing the older versions will try that specific tutorial, cause "comments said it did not work and I don't have the time to try and check if it works for myself")
@@DzekinYou should NOT base your updates on UA-camrs gettkng annoying commenrs... Redstoners will invent crazy contraptions with and without quasi connectivity... It is a problem to keep backwards compatibility for ever... Redstone code is already a massively buggy and inefficient mess, and making it better while keeping the buggy behaviour will be hard...
@@SioxerNikita Well I agree that updates should not be based on UA-camrs getting annoying comments, I'm just that in terms of redstone it's probably a better approach to talk with Redstoners on what and how to possibly tackle, rather than doing it without/against their input (the insulting comments on YTbers' videos point is just pointing out that that's one of the side effects of some redstone changes). And that's why this is a snapshot, why the devs are asking for feedback. Which is a good thing! In terms of the redstone being buggy - yeah, it is true, from certain points of view - but what many Redstoners are pointing out ( - aside from the fact that some bugs were so helpful that they became officially or nonofficially a feature that should not be just removed - ), is that the lagginess of redstone was tackled and greatly minimized by some mods without breaking stuff that's actually useful to many. btw, while some stuff is without using QC is possible but just bulkier and more expensive (and rarely also the other way around!), it's just an example that adding something from one version to the other in a form of a separate feature might be a better approach then just forcing a that something from one version to the other, and vice versa.
@@Dzekin The problem with the "better approach is to talk to the redstoners", is that it ignores the casual players... and the casual players that watch their videos are also not a good source of asking, because those casual players will most likely just parrot what ever the redstoners say. Like all those crazy redstone contraptions is kinda cool to look at, but it is a minority of the minority of the minority of the player base who will agree to it. Being able to stack minecarts, frankly is also an unintuitive and frankly annoying mechanic for most normal players, but even this UA-camr dislikes it, because some of his contraptions rely on it. It is not thinking about Redstone as a whole. "is that the lagginess of redstone was tackled and greatly minimized by some mods without breaking stuff that's actually useful to many." That's kind of irrelevant. I've had more casual contraptions ruined by Quasi Connectivity, than it has ever been useful to me. I just want to make some piston gates, and similar, and that is the use case for the vast majority of players. The Quasi Connectivity in these cases are, well... VERY unintuitive. If there is one thing a system like Redstone shouldn't be, it is unintuitive for the player base. So even if you fix the lagginess without breaking Quasi Connectivity, then it doesn't actually fix the issue of something being unintuitive. "Btw, while some stuff is without using QC is possible but just bulkier and more expensive (and rarely also the other way around!), it's just an example that adding something from one version to the other in a form of a separate feature might be a better approach then just forcing a that something from one version to the other, and vice versa." I'd rather look into WHY QC is so useful to the Redstoners, and get it removed, while adding a feature that can do something similar to QC, because as it exists, it is frankly, terrible. You put redstone dust to point at a Piston, you expect the Piston to be powered, cool... wait, it powers the Piston beneath it? Oh, Okay, so Pistons being activated powers nearby Pistons? Oh wait, only if the Piston is beneath the activated Piston. Suddenly you HAVE!!! to use QC to separate the two Pistons... Essentially you HAVE to use QC to fix the issue that QC added... It's not intuitive behavior, it should not be continually encouraged, and Redstoners should not get a monopoly on deciding what should and should not be added. It's like the Copper Bulb... the issues people had with them removing the 1 tick is crazy... It shows that the redstoners say "I could make better stuff with this", while the block's function is not that... The function of the block is a 1 block toggle and/or light... Having unintuitive features in the blocks just because some redstoners would like it is really bad. Could be cool if they added 1 block clocks for example, but the current redstoning community is frankly not good to talk to for feedback... They are very aggressive when stuff doesn't work like THEY!! want it to work. Again, see this video, the guy sees the Quasi Connectivity as absolutely the worst change that could happen. You could even argue that Directionality at least, was important, because it was something that was utilized by some redstoners to create their contraptions... and because of that, that should've been in the red category... There was plenty of nuance, and talk about Directionality and Locality, but that nuance kind of stopped the moment he went further. "Oh, can't stack Minecarts! That's just bad!"... despite it being unintuitive and frustrating to deal with multiple minecarts for ordinary players... The game has to update at some point, and frankly, it would be better if they did a "Redstone Update", a major update that completely overhauls the backend code of Redstone, make it more efficient, and change up the unintuitive and buggy behavior for new equivalent behaviors. A replacement for Quasi Connectivity could be a "Redstone Stack"... If a tower of "Redstone Stacks" are powered anywhere, the entire stack is powered, and each block in the Stack can directionally give out a signal in a specific direction. Now you have something like Quasi Connectivity, better controlled, and a way to transfer signals up and down in a far more controlled manner.
@@SioxerNikita Well let me start with the last paragraph... honestly? That DOES at sound like a good idea as a replacement to QC at first (thou idk, maybe it would have some drawbacks). With the update to redstone I will have to kinda disagree - I wouldn't mind such an update personally, but as someone who used the fact that redstone sends block update to the blocks touching it (coordinate-wise), or the stacking of hopper/chest minecarts for easier time with automatic sorting of storages, or just fast travel of large amounts items, or QC, I have the bias of personally being against changing the backend code of redstone, unless Mojang would be able to provide alternatives (like the redstone stack idea that you said) to replace the then "now-missing" bugs that were regarded as features by many Redstoners. In terms of directionality and locationality I definitely agree with you, the way they did the update order in the experimental toggle is definitely on the right track, thou it does need some tinkering (like that case in the video of two pistons powered by the same distance that were still directional - idk, maybe in such cases make the rotation of the leaver/button be taken into consideration etc.). I personally like how closer redstone reacts faster than the more distant one while in case of the distance being the same it is semi-random. Ppl say that it should be deterministic even thou that the directionality/locationality is honestly not the better solution; in computer science technically everything is deterministic, but then Imma point out the case of powering the R and S of an RS flip flop - you get garbage that is the "random" off/on state on the exit of the flip flop - personally that's how I see the current case of having pistons powered by the same power, the same distance as similar and like it. I personally preferred the initial copper bulb, as it did not break anything, it only posed a chance to improve upon some designs. I personally saw it as an additional quirk of the block, idk maybe cause copper is conductive irl, so thus in mc it creates less delay than repeaters and comparators (stone based components) - a treat for redstoners and technical players that does not impede on the rest of the community, at least from my pov. But I do agree that redstone community was pretty vocal and aggresive about it. I can't fully blame them, as I think that it might be related the fact that one of the devs originally said that said behaviour was intended, but then the copper bulb got changed, for parity me thinks? (cause in Bedrock redstone is locked to 2gt intervals, the "even" game ticks, so they could not have it over there the way it was on Java without rewriting redstone ticks to not be locked to the even gt) - I might be wrong but back in a day, when Mojang eployees were using the reddit, the community simply had more direct contact with the devs, any problems, questions, suggestions could be discussed over there; now they do not respond there and some of the community, especially the technical and redstone part feel like their voices are not heard, thus getting more aggresive and vocal each time a change that is "negative" in their pov. Now MOjang released an _Experimental_Toggle_ and literally asked for feedback - probably because it is something to heavily impact those community parts, and maybe to not have repeat of the copper bulb situation - I totally support the way that Minecraft went about this one - they are showing that this is an important matter and that they *WANT* to do it properly. Many Redstoner that went a bit, or a lot, over the board, past the constructive criticism into a destructive one even, behave like a cornered/hurt animal - I can see where they're coming from (some of their cries got seemingly ignored in the past and they are quite protective of their redstone machinations), but I do not agree with such manner of acting. I have to also acknowledge that there are some bad actors, some parts of the redstone and technical communities that are overly competetive and aggresive, thus putting too much fuel to the disagreements. Also as someone who did use QC many times and personally sees it as a positive, I can still see your point as it definitely does in fact sometimes cause problems - QC is imo just a double edged sword atm. To mention the minecart thing - while I like that they now conserve momentum and are visualised better, personally I'm not a fan of how they snap to rails when falling, and I personally am against the nonstacking of them, but that my opinion. What I want to ask (and this is genuinly a question out of curiosity) is who is against the minecart stacking behaviour and how is it that unintuitive and annoying? As someone who never really had bigger problems with their stacking, taking it as the same behaviour that you can get with most entities in a game that is unlogical in many places, I also never really saw ppl being against that. Btw, about the contraptions etc - I would personally use "minority" once, not thrice, since I don't think the amount of those ppl is that small (personally I think the amount is probably at least 2-6% of the community). Idk thou ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, we do not have a hard data on how many ppl use redstone to such extents.
Simplifying Redstone isn't what gets people into it, that's how you ruin Redstone for literally everyone. No, giving more options while not trampling on the pre existing mechanics is what brings in more people
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you forgot "but think about the PERFORMANCE" those extra few block updates will kill ur cpu fr
not the goat simulator music playing... 💀💀
@@wntiv I mean redstone dust *is* super laggy, it's just that this is the most destructive way of fixing the issue. Mods already exist that reduce the lag but don't change functionality.
I mainly do redstone on Bedrock, so it's kind of funny seeing people get mad about these changes to features we have never had, but I understand that it is very important for pretty much all Java redstone.
why are you acting like this is something set in set in stone that mojang did wrong? normally i side against mojang when they make poor choices in development of the game, but this is literally an "experiement". they explicity state this is just a test to gather community feedback, and will change in the future. what is the point of bringing negativity into it?
edit: just to make it clear because some others misunderstand me, i agree that criticism is good and people need to show disagreement, but this video is trying to set mojang up like a villain despite them saying they want to accept it
If you want Mojang to listen, we need mumbo to post about his doors. He should do a 100 broken doors video.
Also wish he did something like that for the copper bulb, would have really driven more attention to the problems. (Yes, I see you there, trying to say but "but mumbo doesn't want to spread hate towards Mojang" mumbo is very good at constructive criticism, very unlikely for him to spread unnecessary hate. Not directed at you specifically @jimez86, but thought I'd address the most common response.)
@@tristanshaltz2769 whats wrong with copper bulbs?
@@superbt2027 they use to have a 1 tick input delay, but they changed it to 2, and this made precise timings more difficult. Crafty has another video on that if you want to go into more depth.
@@tristanshaltz2769 they didn't make it 2 they made it 0
@@tristanshaltz2769it had to happen because bedrock doesn't support 1 tick, unfortunately
Holy- the fact Minecarts can actually
Jump now means that we can make artillery with TNT minecarts.
Yeah I think that part was kinda cool
Sadly they got rid of stacking minecarts for seemingly no reason
@@Willifiedthey readded it, you just need to use dispensers
don't go tellin the TNT lovers that XD
but you can't stack them now
Fun fact in Mojangs offical redstone book they show how to do a slab tower so they are now lying
they better re-release the book, Redstone Book Two, Parity Boogaloo
they also proudly feature the jeb door, so they would have to remove that too
You can still do a redstone tower to send signal upwards. You just can't use it to quasi power adjacent blocks.
You guys need a job if this is what you’re complaining about
its not lying its what was being used at the time and u cant compare stuff from back then to now, its a completely different situation. not all the same people in mojangs team, many changes overall and a far different perspective on the game now to back then.
i have some minecraft books still myself which use outdated redstone builds which easily wouldnt work in modern day minecrafts redstone let alone the changes in the experimental version. theyve been saying for years that they wanted to basically find ways to overhual redstone and also stop exploitive farms and this is what they are seemingly now doing. people just got too comfy with exploitive redstone builds and contraptions and now dont like the change cause it affects how easy it was for them.
I think Mumbojumbo had the best discussion regarding QC. If they added an immovable transparent block, no one would care about this singular QC change, and hopefully it would help decrease lag since now every dust wouldn’t necessarily lead to several extra block update checks.
Yes i agree people seem to misunderstand what the actual issue here is. I watched his video first and realized other than the buggy nature of the changes most of them arent actually a big issues.
there are other problems, though. transparent blocks powering isn't the only reason redstone bud updates are needed. one of the most famous circuits, the small crafting-table block swapper, is broken too
@@entityredstoneonytmumbo realised. So he made it smaller
@@entityredstoneonytthis allowed that to become smaller
@@awesomeswifter1138no it didn’t, observers did
they broke all 0-tick piston doors by this update
rip cool minecraft redstone i built in my word then
@@400tratvila4 what was the redstone? im genually curious
@@chamoysans a fast 3x3 door, its no where near 0 tick but its probably still broke if i update my world
@avogaado does 0-tick a ton of his stuff would just be broke
This isn't an update, it's an experimental feature in a snapshot
"Mojang knows better"
MY BROTHER IN CHRIST the whole reason why snapshots exist at all in the first place is to get community feedback!
Especially since the redstone changes are EXPERIMENTAL. They are not part of the regular snapshot, you need to explicitly enable them in the snapshot, just like the villager trade rebalance.
And they sure never failed us with how things went past snapshots
@@SunDry_Marchy dude if enough people complain they WILL change it. remember the god awful wet piston noise?
yes like copper bulb it was in snapshot right? what is the point of it if they gonna ignore it anyway?
@@WILD_DRS_OFFICIAL this ia an experimental change, like trade rebalance. They are testing tuff for feedback, thta's literally why those experiments exist
12:22 Mojang knows that they don't know better. Like that's why they have no planed time to do this update because they need feedback
They use both their ideas and the communities, neither is definitively better
yeah it's an "experimental feature" for a reason
I immediately read your second sentance in shaggy's voice lmao
@@rattttooooohuh
I'm just going to repeat their line of "Concept art isn't a commitment" along with the entire PDB file situation when people say that they *actually* want feedback, if the feedback doesn't fit their agenda, then they wont care at all.
The "knows better" argument has got to be my most despised take in every game ever
Thats not how game dev works, at all
The devs know how to use their tools the intended way the best
They are aware that people use them in unintended ways, but they are not testing their code with the several thousand unintended us cases of all their tools
They test their code how the tools are meant to be used on paper
99% of the time, the people who have poured thousands of hours into your game, are going to know it better, then the person that has spent years putting it together
And thats just an unintuitive fact of game dev as a whole
The players spend thousands of hours working with and perfecting the usage of all of your tools, while you spend 100 times that puting the tools together
Since it takes so much more time to put the tools together, you dont get the chance to use them all to their 100% fullest, or even discover what they are really capable of, despite having made them
So in the end, the players end up knowing your game better then you do
I can not stress this enough
Mojang does not know whats best
The community and the people who play the game
Know whats best
Wait, The fact that Minecarts Fly now means that Yellow's Stunt Jump at the End of the rollercoaster would've actually worked
Hah, great reference! I also thought that when I saw the update for the first time
Lol that was great
i like how everybody just knows what this means
let’s confuse the non-alanbecker fans
non-alanbecker fans: *looks up alan becker* "Hooray we are no longer confused"
what about the loop?
I'm still pissed at Mojang for robbing us the universally beloved copper bulbs.
bEdRoCk aNd JaVa PaRiTy
Still annoyed as well.
@@ppleberrynd it's such a funny reason when at this point they're actively refusing to bring about version parity on much simpler stuff like sounds lmao.
@@Sucralose2Redstone doesn’t lag the game all that much, “exploits” are often REQUIRED to do certain things, and yeah, beginners give up because it can be super complicated for little return outside of knowing your creation works.
@@Sucralose2Use composters on top of your hoppers. Problem solved. If you seriously have redstone lag issues, git gud. Optimize your redstone.
@@Sucralose2 random question to sate my own personal curiosity; do you equate legality and morality? Like, for example, would you say piracy is bad _because_ it's illegal?
QC stands for quasi-connectivity, btw. Since this guy has been so immersed in redstone for so long that the need to explain it never even occurred to him
Thanks, the only thing I could think of was Quality Control and spent the entire video confused
ive been playing since beta and i always heard it called bud-powering lol thanks for clarifying
Yeah he unfortunately he doesnt realize the target audience for redstone is not redstoners, but the minecraft community as a whole.
Redstone videos maybe popular but almost no one goes through and actually builds this stuff themselves. 99.9% of people dont even understand how qc works in the game.
When i was a kid i thought that qc was a bug, and im sure many others thought the same. Its really no wonder why mojang wants to change things to be more intuitive.
@@cyruskhalvati you could have just edited the first comment instead of making a new one, also if this isn't your first redstone video you should know what quasi connectivity is by now, its use in almost every redstone video so for someone to not know what that is would be damn near impossible, either you bough the game a week ago or your a kid and if you are you wouldn't understand anything in this video, so with the exception of those to condition everybody should know what quasi connectivity is, also no most redstone videos are for redstoners, or better said beginner redstoners, also this video is 100% made for redstoners who hasn't got to test out the snapshot or those who simply do not test out snapshots, so out of all the videos to complain about redstoners not explaining shit this is one of the worst videos you could have choose
@@mihaimiha1727 i did lol. Its a youtube glitch.
I deleted the extra reply to prevent spam, thank you for bringing this to my attention.
Also, just because I know what something is does not mean the new generation of 6 and 7 year olds entering the game, along with all most all casual players would know.
This video is meant for redstoners. The snapshot is not. I was not speaking on who the video was meant for. I was speaking on who minecraft is meant for. Personally speaking i am not a redstoner, though i do watch quite a few redstone videos. The criticisms i fully understand. It certainly takes away from the depth of redstones abilities. This is his video and he has every right to be upset over this.
That being said, I find it comical how he doesn’t even consider the average players, or heck even an average viewers perspective.
For example youtube pushed this video to me through recomendations, I saw the title and thumbnail and got curious as I do every once in a while with redstone videos, and clicked. Plenty of people in my shoes need a lot more context, and would be utterly confused by the video.
Players: “we want more blocks, mobs, biomes, and ways to play the game!”
Mojang: what if none of your automatic doors worked properly anymore
Minecraft’s get popular for its simplicity
Yet people just want to stuff it with so much stuff
@@michealjaymurphy Minecraft is popular because of the ability to be creative. By breaking one of the major systems of the game, it is now that much harder to be creative.
Instead of building new mechanics only to throw them out because it didn’t get enough fake internet votes, they should be introducing new ways to be creative.
@@harrylane4 what % of minecraft players do you think use red stone
i would guess its less than 20%
probably less than 1% actually do builds that any of this stuff matters
also i wouldn’t say tweaking red stone tweaks matter to the bloat of meh content in the game
i do agree with the creativity angle but mojang and most people only see that as adding new colours, the game is getting less and less about creativity tho
@@michealjaymurphy then why change redstone behaviour if it is about 1%? Better add another new decorative blocks than change things that works
@@Ku_Ji I think from my perspective the normie perspective it just sounds more intuitive now idk what implications this has moving foreword
seems like they just wanted to get rid of inconsistencies and "bugs", although it had the consequence of breaking any contraptions that relied on those bugs
quasi connectivity is on the fine line between a bug and a feature, sure it’s not intended but it never really has a negative impact on players who don’t know about it and it allows the players who do much more freedom
@@agingerredhead9380 I agree, it's also REALLY late to be fixing bugs like this.
@@agingerredhead9380it has caused issues for me loads of times lol
@@LolsTheGreatAndPowerfulI'm sorry but the fix is literally just using transparent blocks most of the time. And in the cases that it's not an option, there are many workarounds. It is generally a lot more useful than harmful.
no qc means Minecraft bedrock will have better redstone? yay
5:44 this is honestly the best thing mojang has ever done
EDIT: TYSM FOR 1K LIKES!!!
honestly they should make this a gamerule for the funny, or bring it back every april fools snapshot.
@@mintonpizza”powdered cannon”?
Snow cannon
@@mintonpizza However unrelated, powdered snow breaks minecarts once every year. Perfect.
@@mintonpizza yeah just like the "removed herobrine" easter egg.
"herobrine decided to screw with the minecarts this update"
Why did they put a condom on the redstone torch
To prevent accidental updates
@@skipelen damn that was good
@@skipelen its so joever
Ngl I like the look.
@@dominikrni no, we're so barrack
Some Player: "Minecraft redstone are soo weird."
Mojang: "wait, you're right. Let US introduce RANDOMNESS."
right, because randomness that makes sense is sooooo much worse than location and orientation bias that doesn’t.
It's so weird to replace weird, but consistent patterns (location and orientation priorities) with RNG
imagine if in the real world your electrician said "oh yeah this light switch will have an equal chance to turn on the light in your bedroom or in the corridor"
@@thebattle7000Except he designed it this way since the rules WHEN it becomes random are VERY clear!
@@thebattle7000 i kinda get it, but location/orientation bias is factually weirder (if you define weird as uncommon in the real world) than randomness. What if the computer salesman said:
“Oh yeah, make sure this fan in your computer faces east. If it faces north, your computer goes to absolute zero, if it faces west, your computer becomes hotter than the sun, and if it faces south, horses begin to eat babies. Oh, and you are physically unable to place your computer diagonally.”
Nope, it goes in order now, breaking the out of order system is good, you just gotta take distance into consideration now.
There goes our TNT minecart nuke 😭
Im more sad at this than the block update supressors. Because there can be other ways for block updating but not for minecart stacking
@@annroousivakumar2819you can still stack them by having them all drop down onto the same rail
Some of those epic kills from 3rd life can't happen now =(
Yes but now you can launch them with rails...
@@Vileplume87 Or XB's EXODIA on Hermitcraft season 10
"Just fix your stuff"
I just broke all your pencils, now draw the mona Lisa
"But it makes rs easier, more people will do it now!"
It makes understanding redstone easier, it makes redstone itself harder because there's less ways to power stuff
"Mojang knows better"
Yup, that's why they litterally asked for feedback this snapshot
saying that it makes rs easier is the equivalent of removing functions from programming as it makes it easier
@@novemtrigintillionaire7684 I think programming functions are more equivalent to redstone components than logic
@@shringe9769 when I say function, I mean a group of actions that you can call. I'm not talking about removing the print() function or something like that.
whoops
@@shringe9769semantics. we both understood what the comparison was trying to convey, no need to be pedantic.
Hahhahaa 🤣😂 truee
The comment of "Now try making a new one and see that it's much easier and logical now" would be like if the Mojang devs came in to work one day to find a sticky note that says:
"From now on Minecraft: Java Edition runs on Python code. We also broke your old java code in the transfer process, but don't worry, re-writing it in python will be easier and so much more logical!"
It's literally a case of going against "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and are now breaking timeless redstone creations
Honestly don't know if i agree with that logic. I have no knowledge about redstone, but it's not like they're breaking any of the contraptions already made, unless you willingly update your game. If this is genuinely a better foundation for making new redstone contraptions, i think it's a worthwhile sacrifice that old designs won't be as easy to build in newer versions.
@@rolan638It's not just "harder" to build these things. It's straight-up _impossible_ to make a lot of these constructions work now, especially if you want them to work consistently.
@@rolan638 it's not a better foundation just based on changes to redstone dust - it's cuts out a ton of possibilites of using redstone, kills lots of old tutorials on building contraptions and most importantly, for learning redstone specifically, introduces an exception - that being that redstone dust doesn't trigger block updates when powered unlike a ton of "conductive" components. It's an additional thing that you have to remember every time you do something. in programming terms, it would be changing behavior of a function to be inconsistent between all of simular functions in it's library. Hard to remember first time, even harder when actually coding
Plus how is making things random more logical? Its less logical because you cant predict whats gonna happen.
Mojang: *knows best, apparently*
Also Mojang: "Pick between these two things that we already made, and the coolest one won't be added in the next update"
I never got why they didn't just add them anyway, like why have a mob vote at all? Just slate the release for different snapshots, gauge reception, throw out the bad and keep the good, same with features.
😂😂😂
4:28 I just had an idea: this could make for Minecraft's version of the Discus Throw event. Estimate how long you need to let the minecart charge up before releasing it so it falls in a marked distance range.
oh that's a really cool idea actually
no really discus but more like cornhole
General principle taken from computer science that some of these redstone changes violate: backwards-compatibility. If you are gonna break it, you better have a really good reason and no acceptable alternatives, or you’re going to piss off your users. Redstoners are the Minecraft community’s version of computer programmers, so a lot of the principles of CS development apply to it.
A related principle Mojang devs should keep in mind when making changes to red stone: in the words of Linus Torvolds “a bug that people rely on isn’t a bug, it’s a feature”. Quasi-connectivity is a perfect example of that principle.
Say that to Microsoft, who removed PDB files used for debugging and modding in Minecraft bedrock
@@Oyakinya-Izukithey’re doing that because it allows them to fully monetize modding through the marketplace on console.
This isn't the Linux kernel, so don't invoke Linus as if he speaks for you. As a professional computer programmer, and a redstoner, I can see both sides to this.
What you don't see is how it limits what Mojang can do with the code, by being forced to keep bugs. But what they need to do is offer an alternative. Maybe a stand-in replacement for the existing dust, so you can opt-in to having the existing functionality, but as a component. Redstone lumps or something.
@@darkcaste 😂
On the other hand if you are relying on a ton of undefined behavior, you shouldn't be surprised when it breaks on you.
4:20 Ready for TNT Minecarts????
We boutta get tnt minecarts tactical missile launcher before gta6
@@Exstintetial We have the time
TNT cannon battles bouta be a whole new experience
@@Exstintetialcubicmetre made an orbital strike 4.0 soooo
TNT minecart particle accelerator
They are essentially slowly turning Java into bedrock by removing QC. And as a mainly bedrock player I am disappointed that they are doing this to Java rather then changing bedrock.
its cause bedrock is less broken in some aspects
remember this is an experimental feature not the actual snapshot
Edit: this comment purpose IS for the community to not be alarmed because experiments either take a long time to get in the Game or get discarted
purplers barely mentioned this as well, it really feels like they're just trying to get people riled up. I hope that's not the case
Yes, but he and other youtubers are giving feedback by telling Mojang to not expand these features in future snapshots.
exactly its experimental its not supposed to work with 0 bugs mojang will most likely fix most things people are complaining about
That's what they said when copper bulbs were 0 ticked.
They need to becasue if not they are going to full send the bad changes because no one said anything
good thing the changes are just experimental, lets hope they listen to the redstoners and only implement the good stuff from the experimental features
Like they listened with the copper bulb….
@@Syntex366Copper bulbs didn't need that functionality stop it already
@@MrPbhuh you dickriders have majors in writing the stupidest, emptiest arguments on earth. You can say that about literally any mechanic in Minecraft to justify its removal. “We don’t need netherite” “we don’t need cows” “we don’t need more than one tree type” “we don’t need to fight a dragon” That doesn’t make removing the thing okay or positive for the game you thumb. Fact is, the 1 tick function provided entertainment and caused zero issues. Going out of the way to remove it was a negative change that upset players. “It didn’t need that functionality” I could write a more meaningful argument by sending you a picture of the toilet paper wad I just wiped with.
@@MrPbhuh copper bulbs themselves weren't something that were "needed" Before they were introduced. It's not about need, it's about what it becomes useful in. And the 1 tick update feature, that's about as useful in compacting redstone as QC itself is. QC allowed 5-6 block setups to be done in 3, and odd tick updates allowed 4-5 blocks of scaffold setup to be done in 1.
So if odd tick updates weren't a "needed" Thing, neither is QC or minecart stacking. But of course they are very much needed.
@@MrPbhuhthe 1 tick delay would of been a game changer. So many builds would be faster and more precise.
This situation reminds me of one time Linus Torvalds chewed out a dev for trying to "fix" something in the Linux kernel. There is a golden rule in Linux kernel development: Never break userspace (i.e. the applications that run on Linux). If there's something that doesn't work as designed, but fixing it would break applications, too bad, your bug is now a feature and you are not allowed to "fix" it.
Bugs add character
Linus sounds insufferable to work with. If you have to exploit a bug to do certain things, then make it a feature in some other way.
Breaking backwards compatibility is something that must inevitably be done, or adding new features, fixing performance issues, and fixing bugs becomes more of a hassle.
That's right, he IS an insufferable shtlib lol, have you seen his daughter? The whole CoC thing was her idea too
@@michaeltesterman8295 That is where the Art joins the programming, some things have been a certain way for so long that "fixing" it would have unimaginable ripple effects.
@@michaeltesterman8295 And then the internet goes down inflames because everybody Linux webservers and routers go down and the global economy loses $5 trillion dollars updating everything.
I'm sure its not this drastic in reality, but when things are out there in the world, making the world work, making major changes comes at a cost. Sometimes that cost makes an improvement in the Kernel not worth it.
They should absolutely simplify restone by getting rid of the strange loopholes and just make new redstone tools to replace them, it’s crazy they haven’t made some time of “insulated redstone” that can be placed vertically and only powers things that it directly points into
They should introduce seperate piston variants on both Java and Bedrock that have Quasi-Connectivity, then get rid of it from normal pistons on Java.
Thats too logical, what next, vertical slabs?
They could make "copper wires" to do that and give copper a better use
@@bonD6002this.
But I have a better idea. Actually make redstone useful in the normal game along with copper. Cause rn there is no reason to mine redstone. If they added electric fences to keep mobs out of a large area you fence off regardless of light level that would be pretty cool.
I feel like out of all the problems with copper bulbs, the worst is that it would also gatekeep reliable redstone ladders behind either finding and stripping the copper bulbs from dozens of trial chambers, or behind going to the nether
....Isn't most of the redstone stuff worth using ALREADY nether-gated by needing quartz?
@neoqwerty and this makes it worse.
@@neoqwerty Yeah you're right, but at least quartz is just lying around and doesn't fight you
That and lighting updates
@@guilhermerafaelzimermann4196 I agree this is a bad change, but... "going to the nether" is a gatekeeper? I feel like if you're at a stage in the game where you need redstone ladders, you can deal with a couple fiery bois
rantsona jumpscare at 10:37
all its missing is the crossed arms pose
Just the exact time I paused it
5:47 yep definitely working as intended
I don't understand what could possibly be wrong with that
Finallyyyy! I’ve been waiting for mojang to add cannons for forEVER
@@contranym675 but they're ISNOW cannons!
If they ever make this an official update I'm gonna bet someone will make a mod that lets Redstone work as it is like in older versions.
Indeed their will be that said these changes are aimed at making redstone lag less in multiplayer.
Honestly the change sucks if you do loads of complex redstone builds but is good for the rest of the community.
@@darth3911the fact that mojang is doing a worse job of making things more lag friendly then mod devs is just amusing to me.
Carpetmod and Lithium are boath great for servers and they don't break shit like that.
honestly redstone seems like such a complicated and delicate process/mechanic that any major change that isn't specifically adding new types of functionality/blocks would just absolutely destroy any and all current builds more complicated than putting a pressure plate next to a door
it's basically programming (thus complexity depends on how compact you [have to] make it), thus depending on how major the change to existing mechanics it could even be possible to break the pressure plate next to a door mechanic or it could not impact anything.
the problematic part is you don't know for sure it didn't break anything you did until you tested everything again, depending on a contraption's complexity such a test could take up to days or even weeks of fulltime work (because every possible input has to be tested at least once better multiple times, the contraption has to process it and spit out the expected output every time, which even tickwarped could take several minutes per testrun depending the player's hardware), especially with randomness becoming a possible issue, you'd have to make sure every wiring has been used several times without deviation (and even then you could just have been lucky).
if instead of random they'd make that part directional, it would still break many contraptions but the work testing and trouble shooting it would be reduced massively as the behaviour is reliably consistent instead of random.
it's similar to how programs written for Windows won't necessarily run at all on Windows for ARM, heck or like programs for Windows might break due to a Windows update. with the difference being you usually paid to use those programs while only a very small number of redstoners get paid enough for the content they create to do that fulltime.
yeah but this change is dumb
why would you remove a deterministic mechanism
A. It's deterministic in a really obfuscated way that the average player would hate running into. You move your device one block to the left and it stops working? It would drive people insane
B. Easy access to rng is actually useful for many contraptions
@@quorryraphael9980except that it fundamentally breaks SO many things, it would be like removing the mending enchantment. Is it technically probably better for the game? Sure, I guess, but it’s such a massive hindrance to the existing playerbase NOBODY would be happy with it
2:26 Only the order of dust updates is changed (for now), so the lever causes block updates in the same order as previously.
I haven't touched the update yet, but can't levers be placed in directions when placed vertically? The pistons could fire differently if so?
@@Brelee2222he said the way the lever faces does nothing
9:49 They're not trying to get rid of QC, they're trying to make dust less laggy. So I don't think the other components are going to be affected as well. Plus this is an EXPERIMENT it's not even in the snapshot by default.
Linus Torvalds: "a bug that people rely on isn't a bug, it's a feature".
fr people getting mad over a unrelease feature, its experimental for a reason
I bet they just bugged out QC in the process. I'm sure it'll be back in the next snapshot.
@@HappyGickye qc is confirmed to be a feature, we had a whole thing where they "fixed" the bug, but then added it back bc everyone complained about it
@@HappyGick Fabric 0.15 finally patching a bug they hadn't noticed, breaking several mods that used to rely on an obscure undocumented feature of a bug: "Lol, no, now go clean your code and make it behave or mark it incompatible with Fabric 0.15+, this was a bug that broke intended features."
What a game. They add 2 features once every couple of years, and they destroy hundreds of builds with 1 update.
It's a snapshot. It's not like it's in the game proper yet.
2:45 did you consider the orientation of the lever themselves?
Exactly what i thought
read pinned comment
@@agingerredhead9380 explain
5:58 NO WAY WE GOT BAD PIGGIES MUSIC IN HERE!!!
*spring glitch intensifies*
Bloons TD too
I really like the redstone update order with the randomness better than locationality. I think running a circuit 3-4 times is a better sanity check than recreating the same machine in 4 different rotations and then reflecting it as well.
The changes to block updates need to be rolled back nearly entirely. Dust needs to be able to update pistons it runs next to, or it makes redstone much more difficult to deal with
I also think the introduction of Signal Strength Priority is very useful and intuitive in a way that adds functionality rather than takes it away. They just need to figure out how to implement powering outside of redstone dust (all of Crafty's examples of defiance of the change are because the power isn't from shared dust).
@@U.Inferno There is the example with shared dust that is powered directionally with the levers. I think directionality is fine (there needs to be directionality in the game, that's just how it works), but I think working to remove locationality is good, since there isn't a need for it.
@@brodymiller9299 nah even directionality needs fixed, rotating my world 90 degrees should not break anything, that's bad design
@@DissyFanart You either need directionality or randomness, and randomness just takes away players ability to choose directionality over having to re-design their circuit. You probably have not spent significant time in storage tech, where testing devices for hundreds of millions of items is normal. Every case of randomness doubles the testing required, and it already takes days of tick sprinting.
I strongly disagree. A simple directional solution would be better. We have plenty of tools for rotating and copying a build, and it's easy to just try each rotation and be certain something works than to repeatedly test a single rotation an infinite number of times till you are certain it wasn't chance.
Ah, the age-old problem of software development that once you release a tool and it gets popular enough people will start to build upon the bugs and weird implementation quirks, and it becomes impossible to fix or update anything without breaking somebody’s workflow.
12:30 mojang knows better than people making bloody pokémon in redstone how redstone works? people are legitimately saying mojang knows better than the people making bloody computers in the game with redstone how redstone works? what a load of tripe
lol brit
@@mkevz they seem to be either Scottish or Irish, my grandparents say stuff like that sometimes.
It's pretty clear that Mojang is trying to make redstone more intuitive, but some of these changes are immensely gamechanging for redstoners!
gamebreaking
@@Jmandude5 then the redstoners can just play on the version they like.
@@Jmandude5boo hoo, as if people can't develop new contraption for the new rules.
@@DundG Yeeah this exactly. It could even be very fun rediscovering how to build things. Problem solving is what makes redstone fun in the first place
For a non-redstoner myself having to battle endlessly the nonsensical item orientation placement sounds like a migraine when mixed with random results.
we wanted java redstone in bugrock, but they did the complete opposite braah
Lol the bad piggies building theme 6:14
EDIT: i hadn't built it in so long I forgot a step when testing it. so yes, it does work, i just have a bad memory. oopsie
the block update change breaks the jeb door in the original minecraft redstone handbook
Insane
Really?
Well there goes the only 3 by 3 door I've ever successfully made
@@ProjectionProjects2.7182 look at the edit
@@magmamusic2348 I saw this comment before the edit.
To be fair, the reason Sculk sensors didn’t become ubiquitous with wireless redstone is because it’s connected to content that frankly still scares a lot of people to even get close to. The only thing that would really get more people to use redstone is either a pretty big overhaul to redstone (like what redpower used to be or a cog system like Create) or make redstone play a more central role in Minecraft progression (just like how tech modded Minecraft has everyone do some sort of ore processing).
As someone who’s been in and out of playing Minecraft for almost its entire history, it is a bit weird how redstone progression works. Minecraft has you running around making all sorts of weird farms and doing odd tasks. From an outsider’s POV, why does wiring require you to raise bees, mine in a hell dimension and breed humanoid creatures? It’s just all too weird and contrived for the average player. Which is why I think the vast majority of players just play Minecraft like it’s adventure mode+. Mine some ore, fight some mobs and build an ugly house.
also the sculk sensors are less renewable, forgot if they made them renewable at any point
or use creative mode. Most redstoners just use creative mode because the progression in survival makes certain mechanics difficult/impossible to exploit. For example, netherite blocks are the only blast-resistant piston-movable blocks in the game. Mumbo Jumbo has a video where he makes a fortress where the walls are pure netherite blocks to exploit this unique property. This would literally take years to obtain in survival, so people just don't.
@@insertcreativenamehere492its more akin to how sculk just isn't as useful as a redstone line
Honestly, they should just let us make Copper wires. Two copper and a redstone, bam, stack of three copper wires, place them on a wall, the floor, the ceiling, WHEREVER. Maybe let us use three iron in a line to make cable stands that let copper wire go vertically without full block supports. Redstone dust could be the cheaper, safer thing, whereas copper wires could hurt the player like cactus if touched.
@@SnivyTries Yeah, that's a neat alternative! We can have simple, contained, more precise redstone by using copper wires instead, but leave regular redstone alone.
Maybe one could even use beeswax to coat the wires so they won't shock players too.
(Or introduce rubber trees to the game & allow jacketing the wires with rubber. Wouldn't be the first time they've added mod stuff to vanilla.)
EDIT: Or maybe we can use slime instead, since it's bouncy like rubber.
Not sure how redstoners did randomization before, but this new update seems to have made it very easy to create random outcomes intentionally.
Same core ways any computer does psuedo-random values since fundamentally redstone is just electronics.
Which is to say, math wizardry and complexity.
Also I think occasionally it was by like… using growing cactus and such to get semi-random timings.
Dropper randomisers mostly.
When powered they spit out one of the items in its inventory. The most simple design is 50/50 by using a non stackable item (like a sword) and a stackable item (Dirt) which give different outputs when read by a comparator.
@@chipperchap8386 So yeah, that makes this setup sound far easier to do, and much less convoluted
@@Eckster It also makes consistency impossible in some cases. Consistency is imoportant in complex machines.
like rng in coding before but yea, only problem is we cant control it lol
As a casual redstoner, that really loves to do redstone when I play minecraft, but I play minecraft once or twice a year,
Locational redstone stuff: I like it, I think it makes it more understandable for the avarage player, even if it might confuse the top most redstoners in the world.
I just dont like how lever position affects stuff, I think it should be solely based on redstone power and not on lever positioning. When debbugging, I would never think of lever positioning and I dont think most people would, but you could redo the whole system using solely redstone power, and if redstone power is the same, its random, I'd like that.
I would never ever think of positionality so if something I made randomly came across that, I would just be stuck.
Minecart stuff: Most stuff are cool, I really don't get why mojan would remove minecart stacking, no one saw that as a problem, for a casual player, theyll almost never try that, and for the tryhard redstoners its useful, so I dont get why you would remove that.
QC stuff: As a casual redstoners, I don't ever really use QC (as most redstoners don't, only the big brain redstone youtubers really use that and everyone else copies their stuff), QC is more of an annoying thing that seems to randomly turn on stuff when I dont want them, so Im not affected by this change, but QC is so ingrained in minecraft redstone that I definitly agree that its a problem to basicly kinda remove it like this, specially considering how much stuff that are probably already built in people's worlds will just break now.
For the arguments you said at the end:
Just fix your stuff: I agree with you and I'd reiterate how that would break stuff that is already built in people's world, giving a lot of people a lot of trouble rebuilding stuff.
But it makes it easier: While what you said about youtubers bringing people to redstone is true, the easier redstone is also true, I had never even attempted wireless redstone before the skulk sensor, now its something I do pretty regularly, easier redstone not only atracts more people to redstone, but it also fixes one of technical minecraft's biggest problems, that is that people just copy stuff, copying stuf is boring, and its no surprise that most people see building farms as a chore, copying is boring, making ur own farm is fun, simpler mechanics help with that. Ever since 1.14, Ive always made my own iron farms, cause now they are so simple to make that I can make it myself and get a lot of iron, before I had to copy.
Mojang knows better: Agree with you lol
VERY good point. With simpler redstone, it'd be easier for a newbie like me to actually figure it out for myself, instead of having to copy builds all the time, which I only find tedious & frustrating. Getting to actively experiment with redstone behaving in a more direct, predictable manner would get me to actually come up with devices myself, or logically be able to figure out how to build what I want without having to look things up! :D
@@ZaCloud-Animations___she-her
You aren't any more likely to make something original now, than before.
QC/BUD powering only is a concept for experts that already know what they're doing and are making novel designs.
People that don't know anything, nor develop unique mechanisms,. aren't going to start doing that now that a complex interaction they have no concept of, no longer exists.
They're still going to just copy whatever is the most popular vid on YT.
@@tristanc3873 Speak for yourself. My actual main obstacle has been that I keep accidentally making BUDs & it keeps my attempts at tinkering from working. No cap.
@@tristanc3873 u end up doing QC by mistake.
This has happened to me many times, where a piston that logically shouldnt turn on simply does.
Unless u r an expert, u will not really understand much about QC, so itll be hard for you to figure out why that piston is turning on randomly.
I agree with QC being unwanted/annoying - I don't make redstone videos, but I *do* make redstone contraptions of my own, and the only time QC gets used is when I didn't want it to occur at all and have to redesign something to avoid it.
Normally redstone works by blocks being powered, but as far as I can understand it QC is effectively "powered air" and spits in the face of "I *don't* want this thing powered" logic.
2:05 BRO GOT THAT BLOONS TD 5 MUSIC 🗣🔥🔥
As he gets to the red zone, I’m like they better not have touched quasi-connectivity. No my worst fears have been realized.
0:05 G- GOAT SIMULATOR?!
Yes
Fuck yeah
FUCKING HELL YEAAAAAH
I LOVE GOAT SIMULATOR RAHHHHHGHHHHHH
@@niktokof935 It is pronounced;
HELL FUCKING YEAH
I honestly like the randomness idea. It would allow for some very cool builds that can take advantage of the same redstone lines
2:27 direction of lever now matters!
gives of "size doesnt matter!" vibes
it would make sense for it to but it doesn't go test it yourself if you want
@@sychro_1122in the example shown during the video, only the piston the lever is facing triggers. the next segment at 2:50 also shows this. as all levers are facing north and south, only north and south pistons trigger.
@@dan_loeblmao read pinned comment
@@DartzinhoV so it's just coincidence then that every time levers were pointed at the pistons they triggered? alright. but you understand why we assumed the correlation.
Just like what purplers said, there are all ready mods out there (forgot the name of them) that fix the problems that mojang are trying to fix without breaking anything. And I wish mojang would take ideas from mods again like they did with pistons and horses. Prof that the players know the game better than the developers.
alternate current and fast redstone dust. i was gonna mention them but forgot during recording lol. the creator of alternate current, spacewalker, actually wrote a response that you can find in the description
Why don’t they just use gnembon’s better dust features from carpet mod. He literally works at mojang. The work has already been done for ages.
@@RipVanFish09yes, ask yourself, why can't gnembon who works in mojang add functionality of his mod in vanilla Minecraft?
"Prof that the players know the game better than the developers." No they don't. The players think the game is a linear RPG where progression is the point of the game. Shut up.
Alternative current change redstone mechanics slightly
"we will never add baby dolphins" BABY DOLPHINS ADDED
Yet they refuse to add anything that loses the votes lmao
so the redstone dust update thing makes the 2x2 flush redstone door in the minecraft redstone book not work anymore lol
I honestly like the changes to redstone (if they fix the bugs) cus it's pretty cool how I don't have to go around copy-pasting every. single. goddamn build to see if it's locational or not.
gotta specify what changes you mean, the locationality changes are a step bit the right direction imo, the QC(quasi connectivity) changes are like a voyager 1 probes distance in the wrong direction.
@@agingerredhead9380 yes the first one. I don't REALLY mind the second one cus like just use another block for updates but except for that, idk
2:22 could depend on which way the lever is facing.
no
8:40 the copper bulb strikes again with another use that Mojang didn't completely intend, hopefully they won't get rid of that use case like they did with the original tick delay
Anyways the real reason these redstone changes are bad is because it doesn't even bring movable tile entities, surprised that wasn't something they put in this experiment, especially since they've shown in the past that pushing a chest with a piston won't cause the universe to implode (Bedrock edition, the April Fools 2023 snapshot...)
we never see copper bulb and batman in the same room
"Pushing a chest with a piston won't cause the universe to implode"
-SemiHypercube, 2024
@@HackerDragon9999 who even uses chests in redstone contraptions? What purpose would they serve?
@@1th_to_comment. POV: you take a joke seriously
@@1th_to_comment. it would be a first non entity moveable storage(like minecart with chest/ hopper), so it wont need a supporting block below it. It would be a reliable desired signal strenght generator, unlike shulker boxes which are pretty much only 1 specific signal strenght, no signal strenght at all or randomness. You could also make like a chest swapper which is useful for compact storage systems, small houses or places where there is a lot of the same stuff so the chest can be changed with a new one( this storage thing can also be done with the shulker boxes but thats late game and you would have to have a more complex machine). There is also a lot more stuff that dont pop at the top of my head right now. The redstone community would find many great ways to use it. The reason no one curently uses it is because a lot of people that actually build restone are on java and most youtubers play java so they never show of this feauture in bedrock and the community doesnt know about it.
Bro really felt like he had to add some of the most nostalgic songs in the background.
What is it from?
'Mojang knows better' is very silly given they're very much asking for feedback on this snapshot. I expect the changes to dust will be undone definitely, possibly all the changes since people have been so vocal about their dislike of them
6:10 YOOO BAD PIGGY MUSIC
2:05, I heard the BTD5 music and straight up died.
SAME
We dying on 63 with this one🗣🔥🔥🔥
@@leonardotrujillo8661 We buying boomerang monkeys with this one
Round 63 BTD5
Or
Round 63 BTD6?
@@Mr.Brothybear they're the same
I never knew some contraptions could only be locational, now im imagining how many doors i failed just because of that
I personally think that the “redstone dust block update”-thing (everything in red in your video) is just an oversight from Mojang. An unintentional consequence of the redstone dust performance updates. An edge case they forgot to test for.
I also think they knew there would be edge cases they had missed, and that is why is it an experimental feature, and not part of the next update.
yeah but it’s still important for as many people as possible to vocalize that it needs to be fixed it before it weasels it’s way into the main game
6:25
but are they pistON?
_badum-tss_
nastuyyy
well they *arent* on which is the problem 😂
I think it would be cool if max minecart speed was more like 30-50, but normal powered rails stayed at 8-10.
Things like wind charges, downward inclines, vertical drops, collisions, or maybe explosions propelled the speed further. It’d be really cool to launch minecarts at default game rules with a bit of engineering
2:00 I love to hear btd battles music
It's an experiment after all and I'm pretty sure that they will fix and adjust the changes according to the community feedback overall if you assume they're going to fix these issues it's a very good update
People are giving freedback so mojang knows to change it
@@bangtannugget784 half of the supposed feedback is in videos where people are acting like we need a call-to-action and scream as loudly as possible at mojang or else they're going to release this in the next update. it's annoying. they're listening to us, so why are we pretending that they're not?
there are still bugs in the game from the first versions, the earliest ones still open affecting version 1.4 upwards were reported when they launched the official bugtracker in 2012...
obviously you can't assume anything will get fixed for sure and especially not without years of delay.
one of them (MC-201) is adressed in this snapshot and the way they said, how they plan to fix it, is genuinely a good compromise, making it a toggleable clientside setting.
of course that's not even the earliest reported bug that's still open.
@@robblly8112 do they really listen though? Can you remind me what happened with all the feedback about copper bulbs? Oh right, it got completely ignored.
Of course people will stop huffing hopium that "surely this is the time where they're listening" and try to get some noise going. What is even annoying about the redstone community trying to spread the message? Crafty even included a minecraft dev's YT comment ignoring the complaints for people like you 💀
@@robblly8112Copper Bulb
I’m all for making Redstone more intuitive and friendly, it’s a very powerful feature that more players should have access to outside of trying to follow tutorials step by step, but Mojang really needs to be careful with almost any change they make, Restoners are insane and any feature is made use of in some way, so any changes can completely destroy previous methods and contraptions, so it has to be either detrimental to an overall good gameplay experience, and/or you have to fill the gap with something new. And that’s always going to cause backlash.
Mojang would probably love if we just did their job for them, so make sure you give feedback and offer practical solutions and potential changes. Complaining doesn’t fix whatever problem Mojang was trying to fix.
I mean people also complained that mojang removed afk fishing and zero tick farms on java... it broke a lot of farms, but that doesn't mean that its bad... people just adapt to it....
Breaking a bit of farms and breaking every single redstone contraption is a bit different@@jeppy4021
Background music gives nostalgia to me
Filling the gap with something new is the best thing they can do for the players that love tinkering, and care about that more than just the result. While players are proud of their creations, the point of the game is the act of creating and not the finished product.
It can of course still be annoying if your creations don't work anymore, or if you are in the middle of a large project and have to abandon it because it gets fundamentally broken...
Just play the older version. It still has the old behaviour.
3:48 I pose an additional question: Which is more intuitive: device works consistently regardless of position and orientation in world or device breaks if you copy and move it to another place? My vote is the first. The next question is: should the length of redstone have any impact on the triggering of redstone components? This is what is consistent across other uses of redstone. Should redstone traveling from north to south act differently than redstone traveling east to west? This seems like strange behavior and an expectation from redstone. Finally, what should the behavior be for a corner case when a single lever triggers a line of redstone that splits and goes to two different pistons with the same length of redstone dust? I see two possible options: randomly choose or both fire simultaneously and break the pistons. I think both would be reasonable outcomes, although the second would likely piss off a lot more people by physically breaking their existing builds instead of just logically breaking most builds.
There is clearly some confusion or an issue (bug) with respect to the impact of lever direction in the more complex cases, but without further and more extensive testing, it’s hard to determine which it is. Likely it’s a bug that should be fixed and got overlooked when updating the redstone dust itself. Only bug reports will indicate which.
its better to have something be possible only with quirks than to not have it be possible at all
@@spyseefan975I concur when possible. There’s clearly a drive towards parity and having an easily maintainable code base for the health and longevity of the game and to simplify the amount of work that is required of current and future developers. There’s nothing worse than having a bug you cannot fix because the code is too difficult to figure out or because the code is too fragile. That being said, I have no doubts that the developers of Minecraft love this game as much as anyone else and it’s difficult to make everyone happy. Choices will have to be made. Thankfully, these are merely experiments right now where they can try out new things, get feedback from players, and figure out how to accomplish what they wish to accomplish and keep as much of the community as happy as they can.
"mojang knows better" mojang doesn't even know what it wants minecraft to be.
0:13 goat simulator music 🐐🔥
Fr
Wow- even as someone who has done a ton of redstone I hadn't put thought into the weight of the redstone block update change
definitely glad this is experimental, because that's usually when Mojang is looking for feedback the most
2:10 btd music mentioned AAAAAAAAAA
The only update mojang has come out with that I’ve ever fully agreed with was when they added honey blocks
my guess is that the Quasi connections breaking was unintentional, our goal should be to shed light to it so they understand how important Quasi connectivity is so they fix it.
Other than the Quasi issue though, the redstone dust changes are good, they may break some old machines sure, but it'll allow for more reliable redstone, and fix some old issues we've had for ages
Am I mistaken in my understanding that the change to redstone dust updates is what broke Quasiconnectivity?
I dont know how we would keep the change where redstone updates less of its adjacent blocks while fixing the issues with being unable to update an airgaped piston with direct powering of the adjacent air block.
@@nullvoid3545 there's basically 2 changes to redstone. The change in "randomness" which removed positional and orientational wires, making the shortest wire take "priority".
And the block update change, which as far as I know, is what broke Quasi connectivity. I'm not sure if they can fix Quasi without completely reverting the 2nd change, it would be nice if they found some way to do it, because having pistons that don't update or Quasi themselves unintentionally in "simple" door designs is annoying. But we had to choose, keeping Quasi is the right choice.
Wouldn't want to split the redstone community into different versions again.
Yeah, it sounds like it was really just a lag reduction measure, perhaps redstone causing a bunch of updates at once was bad for server lag or something, who knows. And they didn’t check it to see if it still works with quasi stuff cause it isn’t an explicit feature that they have data for. If redstone builders are vocal enough about this (which they seem to be) then I’d expect this to be fixed in a snapshot or two. After all they did say multiple times in the announcement snapshot that they want to work with the community on this
@@noizepusher7594 yeap! been going around liking videos like this to make sure Mojang sees one of them. I just hope they actually try to find something that will satisfy everyone and not just revert to the old mechanics
@@noizepusher7594 Redstone dust does cause a lot of lag (around 44 block updates per dust), but there a mods such as alternate current which adds a more predictible update order, and improves performance ~5x, and fast redstone dust, which preserves vanilla behavior entirely, and gets around a 3x improvement in speed. This, along with good building practices makes redstone dust not too laggy.
I'm no redstoner, but I have been following this saga closely. A lot of the feedback has been along the lines of "change it back" and "directional > random." People get scared that Mojang won't listen.
Which... fair, but I think there's an opportunity here to explore unique solutions that could offer the best of all worlds.
The way I look at this experiment and I hope Mojang does too, is as a sandbox of "what if?" to see what could and couldn't work.
Could there maybe be new components that address some of the issues introduced?
I've seen suggestions like using bluestone as a sacrificial lamb of sorts to receive these changes instead. Or perhaps a randomizer block, since "Mojang wants to inject randomness so badly," or even a gamerule! However, I think these ideas are unlikely to be implemented as they somewhat miss the point of the changes.
A cool suggestion I saw from Technical Aspect for eliminating randomness without resorting to directionality was to have updates happen clockwise. Though, even then, mirroring builds would still cause problems.
It made me think, what if, since the order already somewhat depends on the direction of the power source, it could rely on power sources even more? Alternate power sources could influence how the redstone line behaves! For example, a copper lever (or waxed, or whatever) that changes updates to happen anti-clockwise (for Technical Aspects suggestion), or a charged redstone block that causes the line to emit block updates more aggressively like before.
These are obviously half-baked ideas, and I have no idea if they're possible or how acceptable they would be as a compromise to redstoners, but I would love to see people flesh out more suggestions along these lines, even if there's no way they'd be practical, then just as a thought experiment on why not
the problem is clockwise based on what, the build(not really feasible and definitely very laggy from all the checks that would be needed) or based on the world which would reintroduce locationality because of your quadrant(e.g. +/- would behave differently from -/+)
I think it would be super confusing if there was a new version of Redstone Dust, that's new feature was the very unintuitive "they don't update the block beneath them, not allowing Quasi Connectivity".
Honestly, quasi-connectivity in its current form sucks. A new player would never figure out this mechanic unless they are doing excessive tinkering. This change does streamline the learning process of redstone, but that does not mean it is good.
A new block or something you could add to a block to get the same mechanic while making more sense for a newer player to logically deduce by themselves, instead of being forced to go off platform to learn how redstone works will always be a better approach. In my opinion, Redstone needs what crafting has gotten a long time ago. You no longer need to go off platform to learn and know how to craft certain items, so why does redstone still suffer from this issue?
I LOVE how they are trying to make the redstone bode well for new players by introducing/reworking mechanics that seem more like a bug than a feature, but without giving players the ability to do similar or a more responsive version of what was previously possible it is completely astonishing how they take away instead of reflavouring it.
I don't think Redstone will ever be as accessible as crafting. Learning Redstone is a lot like learning a mini programming language; unless you're really into it, you'll outsource for big projects and use pre-made designs for little ones.
But I agree with you that there should be a dedicated QC block, and preferably, it should be a slab to break as few things as possible. The QC change was to reduce lag, but if they had a block that acted the same but used less obtuse/multi-layered processes, it could probably still work
Honestly this just feels like Mojang making stab in the dark changes without understanding how the community views the things their changing or their uses.
I think this speaks to a larger problem of Mojang/Microsoft having no actual idea what to do with Minecraft.
"Mojang knows better". "Trust the government". Same energy
At 0:20, good texture change; it also doesn't mean you can't revert it back if you want to or change it however you like with the added textures.
At 2:22, I think the fix for that would be to simply activate the piston that the lever is facing towards. So, at 2:22, the non-activating piston should've been the priority; if the lever was facing towards the piston that was activating, that one would take priority. Overall, I think fixing the random weirdness of redstone sometimes not working is good, as long as it doesn't negatively affect the speed and reliability of redstone builds.
At 4:51, MoJang should not have removed this feature, as many people, myself included, have used it for killing chambers, storage systems, super smelters, etc. My guess is they changed this either due to the bug of having Minecarts move by themselves without rails or causing lag, but the simple solution is to either have a limit on the amount of minecarts (preferably until entity cramming 25) or make it so the minecarts exist but only one of them is visible unless an entity is present.
At 5:30, directional minecarts are massively important for a lot of redstone builds. The animation should still exist, but having it align directly in the middle of rails instead of aligning on the hitboxes of the rail is not good; "unnatural" is a good word, even without redstone in mind.
At 5:45, MoJang's space program.
At 7:30, Mojang messing with quasi-connectivity and redstone dust acting as block updates is never good news. So many redstone builds rely on redstone giving block updates; I don't really see why this was changed, other than lag reasons maybe, but that's when you apply the logic of making redstone dust block updates optimized, not removing it. Copper bulbs may be a solution, but it will also still cause tons of lag from light/block changes. Redstone, in general, should have the mindset of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it, optimize what is" (by optimize, I mean purely to remain functional but fix the lag issues they potentially cause).
At 10:55, all of Mojang's excuses or people defending the changes are from those to whom none of these redstone changes apply. Instead of asking the opinion of people who don't use "complicated" redstone, ask the people who use these features daily! It's more important for people who use redstone consistently than for the player base that avoids it. Even if they want to dip their toes into redstone builds, content creators can give block-by-block tutorials explaining how to do what you want it to do. Changes like this are problematic because literal years of redstone builds that worked flawlessly have been undone and need to be fixed. Tutorials from 5-6 years ago possibly even longer that were reliable and easy to build now need new designs and explanations for new players and current redstone builders.
Overall, I think fixing redstone in terms of lag reduction or making it more approachable is good, but only if the underlying functionality remains unchanged. In my opinion, what's so great about redstone is how it has barely changed since it was added. If you were willing to learn it, your redstone builds from years ago would still work; Etho Plays Minecraft is a good example of this in his survival world. I feel like Mojang tested how the community would respond by changing redstone dust to the dot/cross and realized people didn't mind it, but they didn't mind it because it didn't break everything. At most, it was a minor inconvenience with simple fixes. Mojang should never go headfirst with "We need to completely revamp and make everything NEW and FRESH." Some things in Minecraft don't need complete overhauls; they just need to be optimized and reliable.
Anyways, I appreciate it if you read this far. Or TL;DR: Fun fact-I don't even play Minecraft much anymore but still took an hour out of my time to defend a small portion of Minecraft's community because I care about the direction they're taking and how important "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" is when it comes to one of my favorite games. Also yes I used ChatGPT for punctuation because I ain't got time for that.
I'm going to be real, I always hated these glitches being consistent. It put a lot of random ass functionality into the game that no one could ever organically figure out and a lot of it bypassed intentional redstone limitations. If they were at all intuitive then I'd be all for them, but this was all way too opaque.
byeah, and imho if you can do logic gates still then there should be no problem, as thats all you need to do really really really cool stuff
This is really a showing of the addage: if the program has a bug, but the user base incorporates that functionality (or lack thereof), then it is no longer a bug but a feature.
Well I always hated 1 thing about QC. You can't make a sticky piston with a redstone block face upwards, because once you power it, it WON'T retract.
But none of these changes fix that.
And I'm not really a redstoner but I'm still kinda pissed off that you can't stack minecarts anymore.
you can still stack them manually (see mumbo's video) but yah, its a bit harder now.
I still don't get what's so bad about minecarts not being able to stack anymore
@@deringjosuegarcia1531 mostly its a problwm for technical players. There are some fairly involved machines that largely only work because of stacked minecarts.
But there is the more relevant fact that this affects tnt minecarts, which has a niche affect on multiplayer
Well, use a full cauldron with a comparator.
Wait... THEY CAN FLY NOW!? 3:53
THEY FLYYYYYY!!!!!
Yeah I know I don’t care that much
I feel like the randomness should be a 95% posetive thing. You can still control it by building correctly. But now you have the added option to add randomness to a build. Something that can be very usefull and was hard to achieve before.
I was considering browsing videos again then the BTD music kicked in, very nice touch, and absurdly effective
My thoughts:
I think randomness is a welcome change. I use piston randomizers in Bedrock Edition, and I needed a way to use RNG besides dispensers in Java. The minecart changes are great in my opinion, except for the minecart stacking. I thought it was really fun to use in Java with TNT minecart cannons and nukes. Hopefully it doesn't change. Quasi-connectivity is what made Java's redstone mechanics unique, and I REALLY don't want it removed, even if just for redstone dust. They can at least add an option for QC that is on by default.
No... QC isn't what made redstone unique... redetone made redstone unique...
@@SioxerNikita I said JAVA'S redstone.
@@XNorYT Not even JAVA's redstone, QC isn't what made redstone Unique. Redstone is what makes Redstone unique. QC is not necessary for Redstone to be unique. Relying on an unintuitive bug made feature is not a great idea.
@SioxerNikita My point is that changing java's redstone system would permanently ruin some builds that utilize it, including some of mine. If Mojang wanted to fix QC, they could at least make it an option.
@@XNorYT Being too stuck in the past, is going to stop progress... They are completely rebuilding the back end of Minecraft Java at the moment, if you haven't noticed. Stuff will break...
They've made plenty of changes that have ruined builds over time, why should QC SPECIFICALLY be an exception?
I'm sure Mojang used to say that QC was NOT a bug!
Wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft has turned out half of Mojang's dev team and replaced them with people who don't play Minecraft
"redstoners bring new redstoners into redstone" yeah because it's so jank you cant teach yourself.
no, because you can’t show yourself how cool it can be, calling it jank because in a few niche cases it behaves in strange ways would make practically everything on the planet jank. i taught myself redstone and made 3x3 piston doors and super smelters, albeit very ugly doors and smelters, well before learning from people like matbatwings. if you found redstone too hard, sorry but it might just not be your thing
just say you're dumb & move on
@@agingerredhead9380 yeah cause there isnt much cool stuff, redstone could be removed from the game and little to no impact would be had on the survival gameplay, sure it would still suck as its a great feature. also the most fun ive ever had with redstone is when i dont know how to do something, so i try to figure it out, as opposed to copying someone elses solution (exept for stuff like update supression or whatever cause thats complicated and a bug)
I actually love the minecart changes. Yes, it breaks some existing machines. But it creates so many cool possibilities.
Personally, I think that everything except the Minecart snapping issues and block update thing is overall positive. But those two are such a blunder it’s not even funny.
I think the minecart stacking thing is also bad imo, it breaks tnt minecart stacking and entity cramming traps. tnt minecarts are already pretty niche because of the setup required, removing stacking makes them even less useful. entity cramming traps are pretty much just a convenience but it's still gonna be annoying to lose that option when the alternatives tend to be less consistent and less compact
I also dislike the randomness very much, it takes possibilities away and gives nothing in return
@@xadielplasencia3674Two words: Coin flipper
@@xadielplasencia3674they did say that they want to remove the randomness in a future snapshot
@@sperner9069 Two words: already possible
This snapshot caused a lot of lag with the 0 tick redstone doors not working anymore. The pistons were stuck expanded and redstone torches were blinking on and off then stops. When the redstone torches stopped blinking, the game lagged then crashed. The redstone dust on a transparent block bugs out and turns off when you power the top redstone dust on and off. This snapshot affected all redstoners and youtubers projects entirely. Nothing works the same anymore. 😭😭 Mojang needs to fix the redstone dust block updates.
This isn't a snapshot. It's under the "experimentals" tab and is exactly that: experimental. The snapshot didn't effect all redstoners and youtube projects because nothing was added into the game.
This is why it's experimental.
Huh so it didn't fix the lag. It made it worse.
@@ondururagittandeska2004 Going to diagnose based on what I know of OG minecraft having had a bug like this when hoppers were first introduced: this is a clock burnout not burning out and causing issues. The crash is probably an out of memory of some kind. It's SUPPOSED to stop the impulse from continuing when the torches burn out by freezing the circuit either on or off.
This is exactly why you don't whine that your redstone crashed and instead go post a bug report with your error log, if there's a memory leak it's not a whine in youtube comments issue, it's a "report it to Mojang" one.
@@neoqwerty Take your yapping somewhere else
Just to be clear here: I have watched the whole video and I'm aware of all the utility of QC and the like.
I like being able to use some of the funky behavior like QC, but it can also be really annoying when it happens on accident. For people who don't know about it, they will be completely confused as to why their circuit isn't working as expected which can be frustrating.
I think that more consistent behavior (especially directionality and locationality) will make it much easier for people to build and share their designs with others.
Unintuitive behavior only causes confusion for the vast majority of people who don't know about all the quirks of redstone.
With the new updates, I hope that Mojang will make redstone more user-friendly, intuitive, and reduce the learning curve.
Making designs that utilize QC allows advanced players to make more complex contraptions and can ultimately be better for many people. I just don't think we should have inconsistent and unexpected behavior in something that's supposed to be logical.
Yeah I see your point. Then maybe it's better to just add a separate set of pistons, idk, could be deepslate/blackstone one, maybe called heavy pistons or smth, that would have Bedrock's functionalities like lack of QC (cause idk, let's say "logically" speaking, the QC is too weak to affect the heavier pistons)?
Ofc then all pistons on Bedrock would have to be converted into heavy ones, and the base, stone version would have to be given the Java's functionality? Ofc could also be done the other way around.
The problem also lies in the fact that new redstone stuff does not attract many ppl to try out redstone (if anything, it could make them less interested, because "oh there's so many components to learn") and that most ppl get into redstone by watching, recreating the designs of others, tweaking a few things here and there, and thus slowly seeping into changing the circuitry, learning how individual components work. That means that by making redstone more annoying for Redstoners on either platform usually just means that less cool contraptions can be made for newer versions, thus actually staggering or lowering the amount of ppl doing redstone.
A good example is how you have designs that worked for, like, 10 years, and now suddenly do not work and ppl who just got into minecraft are just spamming the 10yo videos with "does not work", "pls I use you other designs, fix this" - many will go the "easy" way out by asking the author (who might not even play MC anymore) to adjust the design to new version rather than trying to thinker it themselves. (btw, the side-effect of such comments might be that the video will start getting dislikes (or even insulting comments) for not working now, even thou it did work for so long, and thus also possibly lowering the chance that people playing the older versions will try that specific tutorial, cause "comments said it did not work and I don't have the time to try and check if it works for myself")
@@DzekinYou should NOT base your updates on UA-camrs gettkng annoying commenrs... Redstoners will invent crazy contraptions with and without quasi connectivity... It is a problem to keep backwards compatibility for ever... Redstone code is already a massively buggy and inefficient mess, and making it better while keeping the buggy behaviour will be hard...
@@SioxerNikita Well I agree that updates should not be based on UA-camrs getting annoying comments, I'm just that in terms of redstone it's probably a better approach to talk with Redstoners on what and how to possibly tackle, rather than doing it without/against their input (the insulting comments on YTbers' videos point is just pointing out that that's one of the side effects of some redstone changes). And that's why this is a snapshot, why the devs are asking for feedback. Which is a good thing!
In terms of the redstone being buggy - yeah, it is true, from certain points of view - but what many Redstoners are pointing out ( - aside from the fact that some bugs were so helpful that they became officially or nonofficially a feature that should not be just removed - ), is that the lagginess of redstone was tackled and greatly minimized by some mods without breaking stuff that's actually useful to many.
btw, while some stuff is without using QC is possible but just bulkier and more expensive (and rarely also the other way around!), it's just an example that adding something from one version to the other in a form of a separate feature might be a better approach then just forcing a that something from one version to the other, and vice versa.
@@Dzekin The problem with the "better approach is to talk to the redstoners", is that it ignores the casual players... and the casual players that watch their videos are also not a good source of asking, because those casual players will most likely just parrot what ever the redstoners say.
Like all those crazy redstone contraptions is kinda cool to look at, but it is a minority of the minority of the minority of the player base who will agree to it.
Being able to stack minecarts, frankly is also an unintuitive and frankly annoying mechanic for most normal players, but even this UA-camr dislikes it, because some of his contraptions rely on it.
It is not thinking about Redstone as a whole.
"is that the lagginess of redstone was tackled and greatly minimized by some mods without breaking stuff that's actually useful to many."
That's kind of irrelevant. I've had more casual contraptions ruined by Quasi Connectivity, than it has ever been useful to me. I just want to make some piston gates, and similar, and that is the use case for the vast majority of players. The Quasi Connectivity in these cases are, well... VERY unintuitive. If there is one thing a system like Redstone shouldn't be, it is unintuitive for the player base. So even if you fix the lagginess without breaking Quasi Connectivity, then it doesn't actually fix the issue of something being unintuitive.
"Btw, while some stuff is without using QC is possible but just bulkier and more expensive (and rarely also the other way around!), it's just an example that adding something from one version to the other in a form of a separate feature might be a better approach then just forcing a that something from one version to the other, and vice versa."
I'd rather look into WHY QC is so useful to the Redstoners, and get it removed, while adding a feature that can do something similar to QC, because as it exists, it is frankly, terrible. You put redstone dust to point at a Piston, you expect the Piston to be powered, cool... wait, it powers the Piston beneath it? Oh, Okay, so Pistons being activated powers nearby Pistons? Oh wait, only if the Piston is beneath the activated Piston.
Suddenly you HAVE!!! to use QC to separate the two Pistons... Essentially you HAVE to use QC to fix the issue that QC added... It's not intuitive behavior, it should not be continually encouraged, and Redstoners should not get a monopoly on deciding what should and should not be added.
It's like the Copper Bulb... the issues people had with them removing the 1 tick is crazy... It shows that the redstoners say "I could make better stuff with this", while the block's function is not that... The function of the block is a 1 block toggle and/or light... Having unintuitive features in the blocks just because some redstoners would like it is really bad. Could be cool if they added 1 block clocks for example, but the current redstoning community is frankly not good to talk to for feedback... They are very aggressive when stuff doesn't work like THEY!! want it to work.
Again, see this video, the guy sees the Quasi Connectivity as absolutely the worst change that could happen.
You could even argue that Directionality at least, was important, because it was something that was utilized by some redstoners to create their contraptions... and because of that, that should've been in the red category...
There was plenty of nuance, and talk about Directionality and Locality, but that nuance kind of stopped the moment he went further. "Oh, can't stack Minecarts! That's just bad!"... despite it being unintuitive and frustrating to deal with multiple minecarts for ordinary players...
The game has to update at some point, and frankly, it would be better if they did a "Redstone Update", a major update that completely overhauls the backend code of Redstone, make it more efficient, and change up the unintuitive and buggy behavior for new equivalent behaviors.
A replacement for Quasi Connectivity could be a "Redstone Stack"... If a tower of "Redstone Stacks" are powered anywhere, the entire stack is powered, and each block in the Stack can directionally give out a signal in a specific direction. Now you have something like Quasi Connectivity, better controlled, and a way to transfer signals up and down in a far more controlled manner.
@@SioxerNikita Well let me start with the last paragraph... honestly? That DOES at sound like a good idea as a replacement to QC at first (thou idk, maybe it would have some drawbacks).
With the update to redstone I will have to kinda disagree - I wouldn't mind such an update personally, but as someone who used the fact that redstone sends block update to the blocks touching it (coordinate-wise), or the stacking of hopper/chest minecarts for easier time with automatic sorting of storages, or just fast travel of large amounts items, or QC, I have the bias of personally being against changing the backend code of redstone, unless Mojang would be able to provide alternatives (like the redstone stack idea that you said) to replace the then "now-missing" bugs that were regarded as features by many Redstoners.
In terms of directionality and locationality I definitely agree with you, the way they did the update order in the experimental toggle is definitely on the right track, thou it does need some tinkering (like that case in the video of two pistons powered by the same distance that were still directional - idk, maybe in such cases make the rotation of the leaver/button be taken into consideration etc.). I personally like how closer redstone reacts faster than the more distant one while in case of the distance being the same it is semi-random. Ppl say that it should be deterministic even thou that the directionality/locationality is honestly not the better solution; in computer science technically everything is deterministic, but then Imma point out the case of powering the R and S of an RS flip flop - you get garbage that is the "random" off/on state on the exit of the flip flop - personally that's how I see the current case of having pistons powered by the same power, the same distance as similar and like it.
I personally preferred the initial copper bulb, as it did not break anything, it only posed a chance to improve upon some designs. I personally saw it as an additional quirk of the block, idk maybe cause copper is conductive irl, so thus in mc it creates less delay than repeaters and comparators (stone based components) - a treat for redstoners and technical players that does not impede on the rest of the community, at least from my pov.
But I do agree that redstone community was pretty vocal and aggresive about it. I can't fully blame them, as I think that it might be related the fact that one of the devs originally said that said behaviour was intended, but then the copper bulb got changed, for parity me thinks? (cause in Bedrock redstone is locked to 2gt intervals, the "even" game ticks, so they could not have it over there the way it was on Java without rewriting redstone ticks to not be locked to the even gt) - I might be wrong but back in a day, when Mojang eployees were using the reddit, the community simply had more direct contact with the devs, any problems, questions, suggestions could be discussed over there; now they do not respond there and some of the community, especially the technical and redstone part feel like their voices are not heard, thus getting more aggresive and vocal each time a change that is "negative" in their pov. Now MOjang released an _Experimental_Toggle_ and literally asked for feedback - probably because it is something to heavily impact those community parts, and maybe to not have repeat of the copper bulb situation - I totally support the way that Minecraft went about this one - they are showing that this is an important matter and that they *WANT* to do it properly. Many Redstoner that went a bit, or a lot, over the board, past the constructive criticism into a destructive one even, behave like a cornered/hurt animal - I can see where they're coming from (some of their cries got seemingly ignored in the past and they are quite protective of their redstone machinations), but I do not agree with such manner of acting. I have to also acknowledge that there are some bad actors, some parts of the redstone and technical communities that are overly competetive and aggresive, thus putting too much fuel to the disagreements.
Also as someone who did use QC many times and personally sees it as a positive, I can still see your point as it definitely does in fact sometimes cause problems - QC is imo just a double edged sword atm.
To mention the minecart thing - while I like that they now conserve momentum and are visualised better, personally I'm not a fan of how they snap to rails when falling, and I personally am against the nonstacking of them, but that my opinion. What I want to ask (and this is genuinly a question out of curiosity) is who is against the minecart stacking behaviour and how is it that unintuitive and annoying? As someone who never really had bigger problems with their stacking, taking it as the same behaviour that you can get with most entities in a game that is unlogical in many places, I also never really saw ppl being against that.
Btw, about the contraptions etc - I would personally use "minority" once, not thrice, since I don't think the amount of those ppl is that small (personally I think the amount is probably at least 2-6% of the community). Idk thou ¯\_(ツ)_/¯, we do not have a hard data on how many ppl use redstone to such extents.
Goated vid for using music from Goat Simulator. Haven't heard that weird Kazoo noise in a while...
3:00 i get the Impression this is based on the direction of the lever itself.
No
@@CraftyMasterman it's Not?
Damn, real oversight then
@@CraftyMastermanyes
If i had a nickle for every time microsoft changed a small thing about redstone that pissed off the entire redstone community, id have two nickles
Only 2?
Simplifying Redstone isn't what gets people into it, that's how you ruin Redstone for literally everyone. No, giving more options while not trampling on the pre existing mechanics is what brings in more people