100%! Sandy acts like the 690 range is completely useless and it’s like he’s never considered the fact that people want to tow and people want to refuel/recharge while towing. This is way more capable and practical than the Cybertruck that’s for sure. The Cybertruck is really cool but for $100k, it does not meet the bar for what most truck owners use their vehicles for.
@@King_Cole he is also forgetting that this 690 miles of range will quickly turn into 400 or even less once a normal person seats behind the steering wheel of that truck… That F150 lighting will turn into a 100 mile range truck once you attach any trailer to it… 😂 stupid comparisons 🤷♂️
@@av7447 I could not agree more. Could even be less than 400mi but at least you can fill up and be on your way. Charging with a trailer does not really work with today's infrastructure.
Towing, towing, towing. 690 miles is way overkill for a daily. However, even if you're a weekend warrior (like myself) and OCCASIONALLY tow 200-300 miles on a trip, the 690 is a game changer. Especially if you're towing in the winter (IE snowmobiling in WI), that range can be cut in half, and then you're talking about 345mi range, which is much more reasonable. Towing range is the only thing holding me back from an electric pickup. Although carrying around 550 extra pounds isn't ideal, especially considering the maintenance that comes along with it, this seems to be the only logical solution with current technology. I'm interested to see the pricing on it. Love your stuff, Sandy!
The engine adds an extra 550 lbs, but the battery will be about half the size of the F-150 (I'm guessing) which would save about 500 lbs. So the weight different should be about even. The standard engine maintenance will still be there, however an engine in generator mode will run under a consistent RPM and torque load its entire life, making it way more reliable and prob require less frequent servicing. Trucks really should have gone this route 10 years ago. As it is now, it will have an advantage over pure EV trucks for maybe 3-5 years. At that time I can see 700 mile range pure EV trucks coming out. Not sure Ram can recoup their investment on this drivetrain in that short a time.
So your winter estimate of 345, that's around 75 miles of battery range and 270 of range extention. That's 10 MPG with a 27 gallon gas tank. Doesn't seem worth it. I would stick with ICE if your towing further than your battery pack allows.
Wouldn't this truck mileage be better for someone towing and hauling. That 600 miles might become 300 with the right toy behind it. Or it could use that range to power a week long camping trip.
perhaps, but Dont forget (Hybrids) have 65% more Maintenance , than Pure BEV. the Cooling System will be Constantly TAXED & Challenged . thermal system NOT up to PAR. I Doubt RAM is using any HEAT pumps. RAMcharger still Charges too SLOWLY than some BEV models (up to 350kw). Electric , is still Cheaper than any ICE fuel. SO, a TESLA Cybertruck has 3500lb Payload & 10,000 lb TOWING , all on Electric. Range is about 1/2 when MAX Towing. it may need to Supercharge more often (Recommend 60% SOC) for Towing. Charging is EVERYWHERE on Tesla network. some Locations have Pull in Chargers. Some locations are SOLAR powered. IF, you want a Conventional BEV Truck , get a Lightning. but, Cybertruck Outclasses the RAM & Lightning.
I do prefer the idea of a fully electric but it doesn't seem, right now, anyone can build a truck with both excellent towing range AND a low price. I'm not a truck guy. I just think about the contractors out there who tow work trailers for on site work. I guess it would depend on the mileage between jobs and charges.
@@markplott4820the difference between this and a hybrid is the motor never does anything but charge the battery. So the strain it is minimal as well as no transmission. It’s not a terrible idea for heavy duty applications. Save money and weight with a smaller battery. I am considering it for my purpose (full time rv living with 38 foot trailer) if the Cybertruck does not have enough range.
Two big problems with EV trucks: 1) Range while towing. 2) Accessing charging stations with a trailer connected. This solves them both, with the benefits of full electric for daily use.
Not to mention the energy required while towing gets into sorta crazy charge power needs to get replenished efficiently. It's one thing to recharge a slick little model 3 that sips the electrons...or something bit bigger than can do 350kw...but the 350kw that is the max really getting built out isn't even that fast once we're talking the 150-200kwh needed to get another reasonable leg down the road on a battery. And really to me 690 is a good range even with Model 3 like vehicle if you just don't want to actively wait on a charger after a pee or for any other reason. Drive, pee eat, whatever/where even/whenever and then sleep/charge and then repeat the next day rather than hassling with 15-30 minute charges and 1-3hours of extra time on the road vs gas in some all day for a couple or probably few days with the EV. This is what I don't get about the EV crowd...I don't want to plan some 10 hour plus trip and have the fact I got an ev forcing it to be a stop at a hotel or extra stop at a hotel when the same trip was pretty easy in one shot or two prior. Yet if the goal was all day driving range...you only stop when and where you want and just charge while sleeping and get all the EV benefits of a daily commute EV when on the road. Then I will happily abandon pure ICE and Hybrids...until then...even if I only do multiday road adventures once in a blue moon..I'll still be doing them in something that I can just pump some gas into to keep going.
I have a RAV4 Prime plug in hybrid, that works as a wonderful EV for me 80% of the time, but I can still do road trips or extra driving without a worry. I feel like this truck could be a nice daily driver with the capability of an HD truck. Sounds too good to be true! Can it be lifted a little for off road use? That’d be a miracle truck.
@@JamesBabb It has a 92kwh battery pack that only claims 145m BEV range. At $0.25/kwh, that is $23 to go 145m or $0.16/m compared to a Tesla Model 3 at $0.05/m. Still less than an ICE truck with $5/g gas that costs $0.25/m but expensive for a daily driver unless you actually need a HD truck fairly often. The Ford Maverick hybrid light truck costs less per mile at $0.12/m.
It does help fit a niche somewhat left by the Volt, except it covers those that do need to occasionally tow long distance. I'm glad they are going range extender as apposed to hybrid or plug in hybrid with a tiny battery. Good way to get those with range anxiety to realize how little they actually need for daily use.
@@werevamp I think a lot of us fully understand it's great for daily use, but don't want to have one or 2 car family and have a vehicle we really only want to use for commute as we just don't want the charging hassles on a road trip. Or have to fight over who gets the EV and who has to stop at gas station all the time if it's 2 and you want one to be gas for road trips. I rarely road trip, outside maybe a novelty road trip if I were to purchase an EV I'd only have it for commutes or road trips short enough I only destination charge maybe. I just don't want the hassle of waiting forever or just generally being stopped longer over a multiple day drive that as nearly as i can gather can end up being a 3rd night on the road vs 2 just cause the charging adds up or you have charging issues somewhere or some such.
My vote definitely goes for the 1500 Ram. I don’t want to be tied to a range when I spend big dollars on a truck. I want to have the option to drive my truck anywhere. THANK YOU RAM!!!
Absolutely. I think Munro missed the whole point of this vehicle. This car can really be used to transport your family and tow at the same time, without being tied to charging for an hour after an hour of travel
There are pros and cons to everything. The point Sandy was making is you have to stop for breaks anyways. While you stop and eat, your EV is charged back up. The cons to the ram is complexity. Now you have two complete systems plus all the complex integrations that can break down. Owning a plug-in hybrid for the last 10 years has taught me, it's not the way to go. You have all the maintenance of gas vehicle plus the gas goes stale very quickly. If you just use it as an EV the majority of time, which for the most part I do, I have to always keep my tank as close to empty as possible and run the engine every once in a while to keep everything lubricated. It really is a nuisance, and something I rarely use. In my opinion. If your normal daily driving is 100miles plus/minus, then get an EV, If you drive or tow long distances often enough that the extra stops add up to be substantial, then get an ICE truck. Hybrids are only here for people that want an EV but are too scared to do so. I know, I was one of them. You will not be happy with it as an ICE vehicle, and you won't be happy with it as an EV.
Range extender is a must, especially on vacation, hot shot duty, hauling, all kinds of vocational uses. Average use is one thing, but on average I don't need a truck at all, but when I do, I do.
Glad to see the comments are in line with reality. I’ve been waiting for a truck like this specifically for towing. I am a BEV fan however when it comes to trucks they just don’t work towing for anything but short distances. This design is basically a locomotive on wheels. The RV industry needs to adopt this design for motor homes especially.
Speaking of the Rv haulers,, they demand diesel engines as gas under long haul runs breaks down kinda quick.. plus fuel costs more for gas over diesel.. its a energy density thing. may be a diesel variet could be a great idea. As a diesel engines prefers to load up and hold its loads for a long time.. say 4 cylinder could do well, since it can buffer the energy with the battery.
TESLA Cybertruck has 3500 lb Payload , TOW 10,000 lb . its also ZERO Maintenance , no Belts or Pulleys that can FAIL. can TOW up to 1/2 Total range MAX towing , and its MEDIUM, Duty class Unlike RAM, Ford, Chevy, GMC, and Rivian. Tesla CT supports 48v System & 350 kw DC fast charging. BEST use case in TOWING w/ any EV , Better than Maverick & RAMcharger. when MAX Towing , just charge to 60% then go to NEXT charger. back on the road FASTER. TESLA has the LARGEST fast charging Network in North America .
You feel like a broken ad,, all has suspension tires and so on,, nothing man made is zero maintenance. Also my car plugs in to 350KW chargers and yet i have yet to see any EV including mine touch that speed and hold a charge rate in those speeds.@@markplott4820
@@markplott4820 Teslas are not "zero maintenance or repair" vehicles. That is a myth/lie. The maintenance is different, and in some cases less than an ICE ... but it isn't zero.
Just don’t have a collision in one or hope to keep it beyond 5 to 7 years. Huge question around long term durability and parts availability beyond OEM, and who will ever be able to repair them beyond the Dealer Techs. Complicated, loaded with future failing parts, and this truck has the absolute best and absolute worst aspects of both ICE’s and EV. Rural folks and fleets will love the range Sandy, maybe just not Detroit’s suburbanites .
This is a smart move by Stellantis to bring in buyers, that would never consider an electric truck. This Ram will bring all the benefits of an electric powertrain, but have the peace of mind, to find a gas station and quickly fill up and drive.
I recently did a road trip with family from Florida to North Carolina, and that ended up being almost 10 hours. With two drivers we never stopped for longer than 15 minutes for gas, food, and restrooms. Being able to take that trip without searching for the still limited EV chargers along the way is not small thing. Additionally, we only stayed one night in NC in a town that has no EV chargers, so depending on the vehicle we may not have been able to fully recharge without an extra stop. I think this hybrid truck is a superb answer (and stepping stone) to many drivers in the US that still need that convenient long range from time to time. Edit: And I really hope they add a silent driving mode so we can specifically choose the quiet EV driving!
Yeah usually I agree with sandy that people wanting that 500Km range are bit delusional... But, for a truck I understand it. If I would ever buy a truck, it would be for towing a larger boat that I know have, and sometimes I want to visit a lake that could easily be that 200Km away, which then outruns my battery quite badly.
Clearly Sandy has never towed anything or read about the poor range of the Lightning when towing. It seems clear this Ram is the answer to those range issues.
@@papafamilias92010 How can you be certain there, wise guy? He made no mention of the poor towing range with the Lightning or that that the Ram would most certainly have much better range. He seemed to only consider a narrow use case. Not everyone drives 40 miles per day. Sandy is obviously a sharp guy but he could have covered this better.
Sandy , as a guy who works out of trucks and tows a lot, this is where we need the range. I have been hollering for years that we need a phev truck or range extended truck. It isn't the empty range we care about. I can stop and get gas anywhere, but it is a pain while towing and costs me valuable time and miles. I had a 1999 2500 HD Silverado that towed everything I needed but it was the 3 door version with a 6.5 foot box. It was a great truck, but when I towed heavy , I had to refuel every 120 to 180 miles. I run the middle of the country and we tow high speed on the interstates. Towns are far between and off of the interstates. If you miss a truck stop you have to swing off of the interstate and drive to a small town and pray you fit through the gas pumps or can get through the streets. Time is money and stopping all of the time while towing costs you money and profit. My newer truck is a Ram 2500 HD crew cab long box. I did not want the length but it got me a factory 50 gallon fuel tank and an empty range of 600 miles. Towing heavy gets me 300 miles at interstate speeds. You can cover a lot of miles quick at 70 mph. I drive about 2 to 4 hours between stops and only stop for a very short time to top off or just keep driving for 4 hours. I love the lightning but the tow rate is too low and the tow range is too short. The recharge time is too long. I tried a run with my buddies truck towing 9500 lbs. A range extender on the smaller battery truck with more towing capacity would be just the ticket. They should put the 4 cylinder turbo or like engine in as the generator
I have run all kinds of power plants. My current runner truck is a 2021 silverado with the 4 cylinder turbo and it has more torque than a v6 at a lower rpm and is more efficient on fuel than than any V6 I have run. I used to be a generator and diesel mechanic in the military. A generator is more efficient under a constant load and demands high torque not h.p. That is why a diesel generator is better and more efficient than a gas engine. The turbo 4 cylinder engines of today are very similar to a diesel engine in their torque curve. I forgot to add that the 4 cylinder turbo is more efficient and weighs less than the v6 and that is another consideration. @@Yielar1
Back in the 90's I put a small Lister air cooled 4 cyl diesel engine with generator (bought it US Military surplus, in a Dodge Dakota along with 4 truck batteries and a couple of huge capacitors (also surplus). I had an aircraft starter / generator hooked up to the driveshaft replacing the transmission (simplifying here it took a lot of work and some custom machining to get all this to work together, a friend built the SCR electrical system because that was WAY beyond my skills ). I drove that truck for a bit more than 100K around Houston and it was quite functional and pleasant to drive. It had plenty of power on the city streets and did the speed limit on the highways that crisscross the town (so it might be 20 miles from one side of town to the other for me). That thing just sipped fuel, 52 MPG, and I hauled 500 to 600 pounds in the bed all the time. I've always wondered why no manufacturer didn't do something similar. Nowadays trucks are huge, the smaller trucks did as well on many tasks and sure were easier to maneuver and park than today's monster trucks. It developed a short in the generator windings and I couldn't get it repaired or replaced so that was the end of Frankentruck.
Some of us regularly do 450-600 mile runs in our trucks. Yes, we stop to pee, but not to eat. Sandwiches prepared in advance are consumed while driving. I currently do this in a RAM Ecodiesel. An F150 Lighning will not work for for me; it would waste too much time at charging stops. But the Ramcharger might. :)
Hey Sandy, biggest hold back of electric trucks is range under load. Electric trucks need to be able to tow and haul, be it a half ton, a 1 ton or larger. Until battery technology makes multiple step changes forward this is what a functional working truck needs to look like. We need someone to get fully behind this concept and development. Edison Motors enters the chat!
Electric trucks haul just fine with effectively no impact on range (under 5% reduction at max payload in my Lightning). Towing is definitely a concern though. Thankfully I don't tow, I just use the bed and the Lightning does everything I need very well.
Look around at the trucks in a city area. Most are owned by contractors with toolboxes and supplies. There's not much towing other than by landscape contractors in the suburbs. What I'm trying to say is that most urban truck usage is compatible with electric trucks. Boating, farm, RVs, etc will still have to stay ICE. THere is a concept of self powered towable RVs that increase the range under load of the towing vehicle.
@vipahman , believe me, there are way more trailers out there than you realize. Regardless, the extra weight in the bed and the extra bodies in the cab add a lot more weight than you think. Add in speed, hills/resistance and temps being above or below the optimal levels, and you are reduced even more.
@@jmackinjersey1 HD (3/4 and 1 tonne) pick up trucks in today's market are all still ICE. EV pick up trucks are for LD use cases for model year 2024. Speed, hills/resistance and temps being above or below the optimal levels, and you are reduced the same with ICE pick up trucks and are no different than BEV.
Also cold winter climates dramatically reduce range so this design is much better than a pure electric in many aspects. Best of both worlds and the first series hybrid truck with no mechanical connection to the motor which will reduce strain and maintenance costs.
As a camper I'm very excited about the Ram. It can put out 4.8kW of AC power through a socket in the bed. So I can load a truck camper, plug it in to the truck, and use it like a giant house battery to run air conditioning, hot water, induction cooking, a space heater, and low draw items like lights and a water pump. Wonderful! All the comforts of camping with a generator, without the noise, maintenance, and expense. The big range and fossil fuel power source means that I can go into the boonies in a way that isn't be possible with the Lightning.
You mentioned a 4 cyl which makes sense, smaller, lighter, etc. The engine heat generated can heat the cab, living space or be a water heater. This setup will give endless power at a work site, camping, home power outage, emergency power station and more. Thinking outside the Volt.
I am excited with the potential this platform will provide. I tow an 11,000 lb trailer with a 6.7 diesel. I installed a 55 gallon fuel tank and I can't wait until the electrics are half as good as my diesels range. This Ram is a promising start.
@@PhotoHoagthe Ram charger has 8 wheel lug nuts so it’s basically closer to a 3/4 ton then it is a 1/2 ton I wanna see someone put a fifth wheel on it and seee what happens
I agree so much, I put $100 down on one. It's like....600hp luxo truck, that tows 14,000, has air ride like a luxury car, is 4wd, Runs 90% of the time on cheap electricity, and then gets 20mpg when it does burn gas? Take my goddamn money!
That range is great for overlanding/offroading where you spend extended time out in the backcountry. And especially for towing. That 690 miles becomes 300 miles or less depending on weather and the aerodynamics of your load.
They should really just go straight diesel if they're using the engine as a range extender. Diesels are way better as generators especially running at a fixed RPM at ideal load. It even makes sense from a health perspective because the big scare around diesels is the NOX emissions which are more harmful to humans, but with that electric range and regen braking you'll hardly ever need to run that generator in urban traffic.
@@ResonantFrequency More customers are familiar with gasoline and gasoline is more widely available than diesel - every gas station sells gas - so while diesel would be more efficient for a ICE-Electric hybrid powertrain, gasoline is a better choice for the market at which this truck is aimed.
I could see a multifuel generator engine being the next step. Having the ability to run on whatever is cheap and plentiful in the area would be a huge advantage in the future. I have had good luck with CNG and Propane in the past. No issues with fuel going bad from sitting in the tank for extended periods of time when you are just plugging in all of the time and not using the extender. RNG is a good fuel to make use of as well. @@killer2600
Exactly!! Towing with the Lightning is impossible. The range drops to 100 miles if you're lucky. Then you have to sit and recharge for 30 to 45 minutes. Turns an 8 hour trip into a 12 hour trip.
@@tycurtin756575% of truck owners tow once a year or less. While I would question why they then need a truck when an SUV would likely be more practical, such is consumer choice. We should recognize that the vast majority of the truck market really wouldn’t need a REX option. For the segment that does this is great to have as an option, and I would be curious like Sandy was if a smaller engine could make this package even more efficient
@@tycurtin7565gets a lot more than 100 miles heck even TL trucks got 150 miles towing 10k lbs up the Ike Gauntlet which is a crazy over the top test. I'm with you that we need more range and we see the ground up designed EVs coming from GM with 450+ miles and 350kw charging. Only a matter of time. Ford's next gen EV truck built from the ground up is expected in 25
Sandy points out 690 miles range being excessive BUT doesnt talk about range WHEN towing or when simply driving at highway speeds of 75 mph What's the actual real world range would be...id guess no better than 275-325 miles based on load size and maybe 500+ miles at highway speeds with minimial to no load. So Sandy perhaps a follow up from that perspective!? And that should be with every eV OR PHEV that can tow.
Use the Ford as your guide. Complaints were that even at a 400 mile range, you were in the 100s towing. Add weather to that, and people were sub 100 miles when towing. Having a generator onboard means you can tow forever by just putting gas in it. It should be noted that Ram claimed a 135kw output from the gas engine, so with the entire battery depleated you'd still be fine driving around town but that's not enough power to pull 14,000lbs up a hill at highway speed. The good news is that the gas engine can run full time, so when you are NOT using it's full 135kw to drive the truck, the excess goes back into the battery.
A Gladiator (with the identical pentastar engine) gets in the single digits when towing. 200 miles towing is fine, and then you stop at a gas station. Big whoop. @@bob15479
Seems to me that if you're going to go with a range extender, it needs to be a ground up engine build to minimize weight. A constant speed, non drive ICE doesn't need to be as strong as anything designed for variable rpm drive systems: Not to mention that intake and exhaust systems ,among others, would benefit from specialization to a very narrow rpm range.
@@bradweinberger6907 it adds literally no engineering time. just go to caterpillar and buy a generator engine from them. or use the jeep ecodiesel with new intake and exhaust timing.
That range comes into play when doing truck things. The others become basically useless when towing or going long distance while this eliminates those drawbacks.
MOST People dont ever MAX Tow w/ Truck or go on Long Road trips. MOST people use as Daily Driver, Groceries, Errands and MALL crawler. 90% of the time. RAMcharger is a waste in those cases.
@@markplott4820 Most people that live in cities and don't need a truck in the first place. I drive over 150 miles one way when I need to go to the city for doctor appointments or shopping and usually take an SUV for that. I need a truck that can haul equipment to the pasture and last all day towing a trailer. When I go to the field I am there from sunup to sundown and use my truck off and on all day long moving heavy loads. The fully electric trucks are not there and will not last a full 14 hour day in the fields doing farm work. In the fall and winter I use my truck to haul wood from the woods that I cut to heat my home and there are no chargers in my hay fields or the woods where I cut wood but I do have fuel storage tanks in my pasture for my farm equipment. So no I don't do long road trips in my truck but I do live in my truck about 6 days a week in the fields or woods and I don't have a way to stop and charge. At least this will fill the gap until better technology comes along.
Like this approach and see it as a good stepping stone during the transition to full EV. Also see big advantage to extend towing range and not having to figure how to get into a charging station when towing something. Being able to use that generator that can be quickly filled and charge back up while driving is a big advantage. Love your reviews .
Ummmm, RAM had over 3 Decades to offer a EREV - Range Extender truck , then go FULL BEV in 2010 . RAM and every other Truck OEM , has Waisted time on the Transition. all the Technology was already in Place in 2010 . (Chevy VOLT). both FORD and gm had FULL BEV Light Pickup trucks in 1990's , that FAILED because they were NIMH battery. however , National Parks & Forrest service used them , also Fish & Game Rangers. Imagine IF they used 1865 Li cells instead.
After you deplete the battery you're only going to have around 200 horsepower left to run all accessories including the motors when running on the generator only. Not saying that's not enough Or it's gonna be an issue just something to think about.
@@Crazypostman An old saying goes, it's better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. Quite fitting in this case. Spoken as someone who knows not of what they speak and possibly has no experience in this area, as well. With a long history from nuclear power to batteries, I can confidently say that the Stellantis engineers won't let the batteries become depleted. As long as there's fuel in the tank, the Pentastar 3.6L V6 will power the 130kW (continuous) generator, providing ample power to charge the 92kWh battery pack.
My biggest suprise from this, is that the ram has a decent amount of range on electric,, i was expecting their tiny 40 mile rang like the jeep and mini van.
I currently own a plug in hybrid that only gets 30 miles. It works great for my wife because she drives it back and forth from work and still has 90% battery left. That saved my 5.7 hemi from short distance driving. Know comes the part I don't enjoy about it. It also has a small tank of 11 gallons, so between battery and gas, my range is 300 miles till I have to fill it up again. Although it runs more efficiently than my hemi, i have to fill up more frequently with the small tank that I don't love. My family lives 4 hours from me. I would love to make a trip there and back on a single tank. Sandy wonders why anyone would need that. I dont need that in a single trip, but spread out not seeing a pump between. I would welcome that! Lightning is the better choice! Why? Any weight drastically changes the range in it. Ford EV is now a soft hands (office man, engineer, sales) truck that is a weekend home depot warrior. Put tools in it and your not going anywhere but walmart to charge it constantly.
I wouldn't looks at the range as 10 hours of driving, I would look at it as being able to use your truck as a generator at the work site all day and still being able to drive home
Also remember its going to be able to get about 400 miles of range while towing and in an EV charging while towing is not a great thing unless you unhitch.
Hey Sandy, your experience is immense but your life is different than others and you need to remember how that impacts your conclusions. This RAM is not geared towards 10 hour drivers they are unicorns. Instead, if I was a higher mileage person (tradesman/parent/ RE agent/ long commuter etc) and didn’t have to fill up my car/truck/ van but once a week then I’d have more productive time back in my pocket. If I could plug in overnight and rarely need to visit a smelly dirty gas station that is also a productive time banking opportunity plus a quality of life improvement. Having to nearly never look towards that fuel gauge with a sense of dreaded anticipation is priceless. There are a lot of drivers in that category who will benefit from this. I experienced this revelation with my tiny battery Range Extender BMWi3. In 35,000 miles of shorter commuting driving I put 7 gallons of fuel in it. 4 fill-up’s! I just plugged it in every night. Cheap easy driving true bliss. Those RAM range numbers are real life, daily task, real dollar, changing for a lot of drivers.
I assume Ram is targeting those who want to tow, particularly those towing for recreation, which often requires more miles. Towing will cut the range way down, but still enough to be practical, which I think is their goal.
Towing typically cuts the BEV range in half, give or take. With the extender, you may see a bit more range, but not substantial. Especially if you are at 10k lbs or more.
@@jmackinjersey1 But if the range is cut in half it is still better than what you would get in a BEV truck, towing the same load. On top of that it will be easier to fill the tank than find a charger in remote areas of the country.
@@Crazypostman I'm assuming it will not cut power if the battery is drained. I also assume you can elect to run on battery only, for as long as it lasts, or generator only. That way, if running on generator only when driving, you can tap the battery for other things, while camping or at a work site.
@@CrazypostmanI read 145kwh so no it won't cut the power when the battery depletes. You'll be able to use the generator to power the battery and either charge or just use the energy for propulsion
Good to see finally practical innovation from RAM..For this segment it seems tro make sense to have ICE, Hybrid and EV options.. would like to see manufacturers innovating now on the shape of the cab and by that I mostly mean the upright back seat/rear part of the cab..
Honestly, I really do like these developments, very rarely, do you need to drive more than 140 miles on a day. So it’ll mostly be electric , but you can do everything that the lightning can. He can presumably run all your equipment off of it. And you can do everything that a normal truck can including towing insanely heavy loads for very long distances. It’s probably going to be good at everything. And honestly given that this thing is half the battery capacity, you can electrify two trucks this way for the price of one truck the way the lightning does . I think it’s a win . Obviously, the lack of a frunk is unfortunate, but people of been OK with that for basically forever so I think this will work out for a lot of people.
That's the theory, but studies in Europe and California found a majority of people with PHEVs never plug them in. They just run them as gas vehicles but got them for the tax credits and carpool lane access they offered. Silly given the lower cost per mile if they plugged them in, but that's what the studies found.
@@kirkellis4329 I think many of those studies are flawed. Many early adopters of PHEVs were government or corporate fleets. The people using these vehicles did not buy them, and had little incentive to install an EVSE when a free gas card is the other option.
@@eric4903 Maybe, but I have a friend in his 70's that was still working with a long commute and never plugged his in. He bought it just for the carpool lane access in SoCal.
@@kirkellis4329 Benefits like HOV lane access or allowing the vehicle congested cities definitely change behavior. Never liked the idea of using congestion to drive purchase of different (electric) vehicles, as they are unrelated issues. I definitely saw the same, and California was one of the only areas in the US that had this terrible policy.
Ram has a gamechanger on their hands. It’s the reassurance of not getting stranded that the Ramcharger provides that’s gonna win people over en masse- at least me! 🙌🏽
The reason you need the extra range is if you ever tow. If you tow with an all electric vehicle, your range is gobbled up in a hurry. I can only tell my boat 90 miles round-trip with my F150 lightning, but this range extender turns this truck into a true truck that can tow along distance, basically this is a game changer
The 690 miles is nice if you are traveling to a remote spot or town that doesn’t have any charging station ( or charging stations that don’t work). Being able to stop at the numerous gas stations across the country and fill up so you can keep driving is one of the greatest advantages of range extended vehicles over pure electric. This will be especially true if you are towing heavy and draggy loads that require a lot of power.
Just get a diesel if you tow alot. 1 system is better than 2. ICE maintenance would make me unhappy. I do lots of my own currently because its inconvenient to deal with a mechanic and don't like being ripped off. I'll exchange the hours, expense and mess for occasionally cooling my heals charging more often when I tow. It makes more sense for trailers to be better designed for aerodynamics, and have their own battery system for range extension, depending on the use case. It could be used throughout the year as home backup and as a virtual power plant when not in use. If I had an RV, I would want a battery system with solar. Even if parked off grid it could charge the trailer/truck system.
I had 775 mile range on my Ram 2500. I drove it from Las Vegas to Albuquerque and had to stop 4 times to rest on that trip. I drive less than 30 miles a day. I drive 500 miles in a day about three times every other year. I have a Rivian now and will sell the Rivian to get the Ram. I have 2 dealerships less than 9 miles away for the Ram. The Rivian service center is 238 miles away. Getting basic warranty work done from Rivian is a 3 to 5-day process. The Ram will be a 3-hour process. Stelantis has been doing the RamCharger in the form of the Pacifica since 2017.
I really like the idea of the Ramcharger. A lot of people want to have an EV, and use it in places where nice EV chargers simply aren’t an option. Also, in more remote places where gas is prevalent, it can be used as a home mobile backup system.
@@markplott4820 allow me to dumb down my question a little more .. if a vehicle towing 5000LB take a hit if 40-50% compared to its no tow range … will it experience the same range reduction while towing 14000 lb
I'm typically not a Stelantis fan, but this sounds like an excellent option if it holds up under real life, heavy towing in icy mountains driving. This is comparable to the diesel-electric systems trains have been using for nearly 100 years... stone reliable, engine operates in its preferred rpm range, no transmission to service or wear out
If you tow anything, you will need the 690 mi total range (truck only). It will probably be around 300 mi towing. In fact, most RAM owners tow something at least once a year... The range extender is for those who need to go camper with their families and are unwilling to rely on charging in fracture availability.
I can see people buying the RAM 1500 because they think they need the range. Then buying a BEV the next time because they find out they didn't. I can also see some going back to ICE because they never plug it in.
The use of the 3.6L V6 seems to be a little overkill for the application. The specs are saying that the truck will have a 130kW generator, which is around half of the current power rating of the V6. If I were to guess, I'd say that they're using it because they simply make a lot of them and it's a very popular engine across multiple applications. Something else to consider, with it being put into a reduced power application, and with a large battery pack to make up for transient performance, I'm betting they're stripping all the advanced technology off it. You could replace variable valve timing with new fixed cams being optimized for a near single speed operation. Same would go for cylinder deactivation, a variable displacement oil pump, etc if the current gen has one (I'm not super familiar with the pentastar engines...).
The engineering and tooling is long paid off on this engine. I assume they looked at the 4-cylinder they already have and figured it wouldn't have been the right fit. Plus they already have an Atkinson version of the 3.6L to use here.
I am super familiar with Pentastar engines, and I studied the press photos. It's the same gen3 3.6 pentastar that goes in every FCA vehicle, minus the alternator, A/C compressor, and starter. 130kw is 175hp, and the standard 3.6 delievers 300hp in most trims. This tells me they have/will very much maximize it for a steady state rpm, which will probably be around 2300 where this engine likes to run. They also mentioned a two speed mode, so they will probably tweak it for two rpm. Nice. This thing is so great, I put $100 on one and I'm a cheap bastard.
I paid the $100 too! Whatever intake is on there is the same as the current pentastar. I was not aware that those are variable intakes. The previous Pentastar wasn't, and it was rated at 305hp in the Challengers, less in other applications. I don't think it matters, because they are going to optimize it to run at some steady state rpm - likely around 2000-2500. It certainly won't be screaming along at 6000, peak power. @@nicksgarage2
690 miles range means 300+ mile range from home without the need to charge, and also potentially a 300+ mile range while towing. If the vehicle is used in an emergency setting, it will still operate when the grid has gone down. This is truly the way to go given current infrastructure.
He also didn't mention that the smaller battery in the Ramcharger will weigh a lot less than the Lightning and will offset the range extender and it's fuel tank. Plus you don't have to carry around a full tank of gas all the time, where you do have to haul around all the extra batteries in the Lightning. This truck is perfect for my needs. Drive around on solar power most of the time and when I go towing, fill the tank as much as I need to and go.
So I see this as a huge deal for weekend warriers like myself who use my current pickup to drive short distances (less than 30 miles a day) most of the time, but the only reason I have a pickup with a 10k pound towing package in the first place is so I have a vehicle that can haul our 8k pound RV travel trailer about 6-8x a year (once a year we go out of state on road trips that are 500+ miles). The rest of the year i putter around town in the truck and it get gas mileage in the teens at the best. On paper, the Ramcharger appeals to me to be a good daily city driver but gives up very little for those "less than 10% of the time" use cases where it needs to go longer distances or towing heavy items. On paper, for me the ramcharger in EV mode would be ideal in the city (plus the feature to power the house from the charger port is a huge bonus) and the range booster would be amazing to have during the few times a year that I need the power and convenience of towing a 8k pound trailer 200+ miles with gasoline. We all know that EV's really shine in stop and go traffic and short distance driving (especially in the city), but today they cannot tow anything significant more than a few hundred miles at best without needing to recharge. RAM is selling the "flexibility & performance" aspect of it, and they very much have my attention. I appreciate the fact that they are not stuffing the truck so full of batteries that it weighs close to my RV all of the time. Another big thing for me - Most EV charging stations out there today do not have "pull through" spots, so decoupling a trailer just to charge along the way is frankly a hassle on a road trip. F150 lighting can go about 150 miles on a hilly freeway with a 8k trailer (TFL guys did this test). The concept of a gas range extender allows the ability to not be dependant on EV charging in the boonies or in extreme cold weather. Just thinking about taking an EV truck towing a 8k pound travel trailer to the Rocky Mountains from Texas makes me nervous, especially once you get in the higher altitudes in the national parks (not so much because of "range anxiety", but more to do with convenience and logistics like "does the charging station allow pull through for trailers" & "will it recharge just as fast as pumping 25-30 gallons of gas"?). Sure EV charging exists up there above 8k feet, but i guarantee you it does not give the flexibility and convenience of gas in that situation (at least not today). Refuleling with gas takes minutes and until EV trucks can do the exact same thing and be just as convenient, the general public will not be as forgiving as early adopters. This is simply a "bridge the divide" product, as most of the public is not ready for a hard cutover to EV yet. EV battery charging tech has a way to go to match the convenience of liquid refueling on road trips but this would be a better way to introduce EV tech longer term to their customers than making the hard switch EV. EV drivetrains are very much superior and people towing should appreciate it once they try it.
If I read correctly, it has 130kw generating capacity. Isn't that a bit "overkill" - I think there's a difference between extending the range (generate less Kwh than you're consuming at highway speed) and endless or continuous range. It also seems like it would be far better to make a specialized engine / generator for this application? (and use it in everything...) because a modern gas engine has a ton of stuff to make it "efficient" under varying loads and speeds. This only needs to be optimized for max power at one set rpm. You'd think that could be made small, cheap, and efficient?
If you need to tow 14000 lbs up a mountain pass you need every single of these 130 kWs. I guess the guys at TFL will soon test this truck on the Ike Gauntlet...
if the battery is decently charged it should pull the hill no generator,, but to pull a trailer thru the wind and so on.. i could see it needing more then 130KW,, also i Personaly would want enough generator to propel and slow charge so the engine can shut off part of the time..@@bernhardleopold6702
You really missed the point of having extra charge capacity since the the Ramcharger is not only charging but powering the two EV motors. Someone else has already pointed out that under the stress of going up a steep hill will use every KW and especially if towing!!! Don't listen to Sandy, he's losing his marbles unfortunately perhaps due to his old age!!!
I'm pretty excited with the upcoming RAM Charger and have been waiting for a series style hybrid similar to the modern locomotives for a while. It's not about driving 690 miles at one time, although that's an option for some. I like not having to charge or fill up as often. I do like the Lightning but would wait until Ford releases their ground up EV truck in 25 personally as it will have much longer range and faster charging. I won't buy an EV truck with less than 350kw charging and would like 450+ miles range to help account for cold winter range drop and towing. I think the RAM Charger is going to be extremely popular especially if they don't go crazy on the price point.
Range is never the issue with electric cars. But what IS an issue and never mentioned, is the time it takes to recharge if you're on a long trip. No one wants to stop for 30 minute recharges on a 2000 mile trip.
I think this truck will be a great option for people in rural areas that drive longer distances where there is limited fast charging infrastructure. I would love to have one. The only downside is that this truck is going to be very expensive. I am afraid that it will be prohibitively expensive for most.
With half the battery size of the Ford, this truck should actually be cheap and lighter. More than enough to offset the cost of the engine. Batteries are heavy and expensive.
Understood, but I imagine it's more linear than not. Meaning that compared to a Hummer or Silverado, this battery is going to be substantially lighter, and substantially cheaper. Both would more than offset the cost of a the gas engine, especially one that FCA builds literally 1 million of every year. Another factor I want to learn more about is battery degredation. In 10 years, this battery will still be working but it's capacity will be less. In 20 years, even if it's capacity is very low (unacceptably low in a normal EV) this thing may still be perfectly useable. I'd be FINE with a 50 mile battery for daily use. Chevy Volt owners were delighted with a 40 mile battery. Jeep 4xE owners are happy with a 24 mile battery. It's something to think about. @@iamalmostanonymous
The RAM 1500 Ramcharger is essentially a Volt-style plug-in hybrid. There is a niche where this vehicle makes sense and, as Sandy says, is a step in the right direction. BUT... using gasoline to generate electricity to power motors is INCREDIBLY inefficient, and does not do much to lower CO2 emissions. It also precludes, as Sandy also noted, a frunk. As a 2023 F-150 Lightning owner, I think the truck's huge frunk is one of its three best features, and is one of the things that makes it the best work truck on the planet.
The ramcharger looks like something that might be interesting on the used market in 8-10 years, moreso than a proper BEV. I imagine battery degradation will be less of a concern with a range extender phev, particularly when it has the buffer that the ramcharger will have. At least, for people who already own and are accustomed to PHEVs
Indeed - just like the Volt - and actually many plug-in hybrids, the Ramcharger is a fantastic one-stop-shop vehicle for all your needs. You can use just the battery for like 90% of your driving, but when it comes time for towing an 8000lb travel trailer on a 3000-mile trip, you'll be happy you don't have to worry about stopping at charging stations. The best I saw on UA-cam for the F-150 Lightning extended battery was 200 miles with a trailer. Then, you can't just drive into a charging spot, you have to uncouple the trailer and yadda yadda. So, again, this is the ultimate solution until they have a much richer network of pull-through ultra fast charging stations for people who tow. Maybe in 10 years...
RAM is almost the defacto pickup for horse hauling. Waiting around for a charge with horses getting antsy in your trailer is a no-go. The Eco-diesel powertrain was perfect for this. It has a 600 mile range, which reduced to about 400-ish towing a 3 horse trailer (and getting ~20 mpg while towing). This will be great to see how the gobs and gobs of electric torque do on towing in the Ramcharger. I'll be interested to see how it tests on TFLTruck's "gauntlet" test in Colorado, and Stellpower's "Will it horse" tests. Once again "If you want to haul, buy a Ford. If you want to tow, buy a Ram. Just don't buy a Chevy", Still the best advice I received from my Farming relatives.
@@Kylewraps I own a Gen 1, that is approaching 100K miles. While this engine has it's issues (and recalls), 26 mpg on highway for a 5500lb 4x4 has saved us a boatload of money, and it has never stranded us. One of the big issues, was that oil change places used car oil in the diesel, which results in coking and oil related failure. I do all the maintenance. So far, no problems not covered under warranty, and we can still tow a horse across three states on a single tank of fuel and get 19-20 mpg. it's good to know, in 3 years I will have options when it's due to be replaced.
@@dandeclerck6742 yea but you’re still paying 25% more for diesel fuel aren’t you? So it would’ve been sake cost if you bought a. F150 V8 or Chevy V8 wouldn’t it? Those get 23 mpg highway these days the ford 24 mpg 24.5
I love hearing Sandy talk tech details but I’m not sure he understands the market well. If 690 miles of range is unladen, it will drop a LOT under towing and after adding passengers and cargo. That kind of heavy, high-mile usage makes the Lightning useless as we’ve seen on several UA-cam videos. And the average 40 miles daily driving may be true in aggregate, but heavy-hauling and -towing vehicles are not just briefcase commuters or grocery getters! The market for these vehicles is specialized. Why does Sandy talk apples and oranges with the overall market versus what this truck can do and the kind of buyers and purpose it’s designed for?
Good point on the advantages of Ram range and heavy hauling capacity. However I think most pickup buyers today ARE in-fact commuters and grocery getters. By far the vast majority of truck owners.
As a Chevy Volt owner, I really would have liked to see GM evolve the Voltec platform to other vehicles. They have all the patents (apparently duplicated with minor changes by Toyota, Stellantis, et al today). Most personal truck owners would probably use the EV mode for getting to their job and back, and switch to hybrid mode for hauling and long distance trips. Stellantis could have probably saved some weight and shaved off a few tenths off their acceleration times by using a smaller battery pack. While the added complexity of the ICE engine can be daunting - most people wont use the ICE more than 20% of the time, so maintenance isn't as big of an issue as one would assume (in 85,000 miles on the Volt, I've only had to change the oil and get the brakes and coolant flushed albeit I did have additional costs related to the overall platform that should have been recalls - but weren't (Chevy gave me an extra year on my powertrain warranty as compensation)). If I was buying a truck, I would probably roll the dice on the 1500 (persistent check-engine lights and all) since I'm a bit Ford-averse :D
If you do not know about it lookup the Via Motors VTRUX. I wish the concept took off more; if GM had built it directly I think it would have been a winner. Doing a lot of what this Ramcharger is capable of a decade ahead.
A large pack is required for its power output. Higher average power output will degrade the battery faster. 5C for a 92 kW pack is 460 kW or ~ 600 hp. That's really pushing the battery pack already and shrinking it would increase the C rate.
Hey Sandy, Always appreciate your video's, commentary, and opinions! With the EV race, adoption I have been excited to see what is next, who is coming up with the next best thing to solve and improve their platforms. I realize you (Munro and Associates) were contracted by Rivian to streamline and improve their process. As I remember in your video, you believed there was a 30% + available of improvement in there vehicles and platform. Very excited to see the new RS2 along with the updated RT/RS 1's! I see that Rivian has reduced the "cost $ of loss" for each vehicle sold, and hopefully with the improvements coming, that can be reversed to profit $ per vehicle sold. I would imagine Munro and Associates had something to do with this in working with RJ. When Ram announced REV, last year. I was very happy to hear that Stellantis was getting into the game as I have enjoyed the RAM brand Trucks for the last decade. Your review here of the RAM Charger is interesting and I applaud it, not that you need that from me. The REV is advertised to have 350 mile range with a 168 kw battery, with option of 500 mile range with 229 kw battery. You, and Tesla engineers (CT), all talk about big batteries are not necessary when you have to stop to pee and such, that charging will be available. This backed up by the statistics show the need for large range is few compared to the masses. All good, however ... Currently the CYBER Truck, has seen range test's ranging in 184 to 190 miles (Production Customer Owned), with an advertised range of 300 to 340 miles. The excuse is the tires are not all-season, but all terrain, and they are going to get less range due to resistance, also I am hearing the 46/80 cell is not giving the range and charge times expected. This is a large percentage of change from the advertised range, and with charge times much longer than anticipated, supposedly. Ram REV has chosen to go with an option of 229 kw, one that will help with towing and more. This would be housed in a EV platform frame and pak, under the occupant/cargo area. www.ramtrucks.com/revolution/ram-1500-rev.html OK, so here we go, some would say, we need more range for these items and of course, towing. I know that they are working refining, updating the software for the 46/80 cells, and more. Tesla is to offer a extra battery pak for the bed of the CT to accomplish this. Interesting method, one that will solve a lot, probably, but at the cost of money and space in the bed? What is your opinion, with out having an actual unit to look at, of the RAM REV? Do you have one on order for you and your team analyze? The next day, after Ram REV was announced, I put in a reservation for it. As my reservation for CT, was placed 09/2020, not to be delivered (estimated) till 03/2026. I love both, as they both have pros and cons, and hopefully Stellantis adopts the North American Standard (Tesla) charging network as Ford, GM, Rivian and more to follow soon. PS, RIVIAN, is advertising a 400 mile range on RT1, what is it really? You and your wife love yours that you purchased .... Thank You, John Quevillon
Engineering Explained has covered towing with EV's before. It's a challenge to say the least. The Ram will be great for that use case, which covers a lot of those who can afford this thing (the suburban yuppie)
Chevy used to sell a hybrid truck that could run a welder. I could see a market for range extended vehicles that can run 240V equipment in the field where there are no other electrical connections. The truck engine should be beefier than any generator that isn't pulled behind as a trailer.
Range extension is the most practical solution until the charging infrastructure becomes reliable and also when towing. More importantly, it is the solution for rural people who have to travel for everything but the basics. GM had the chance to bring this to market years ago as they were working with VIA Motors who were installing this technology in GM 1/2 tons not long after the Volt hit the market. Looks like VIA are only producing commercial platforms now so the partnership must have ended. I actually expected GM to do this shortly after Bob Lutz became a member of the board for VIA. GM is being left behind yet again.
I think Via Motors only made around 250 VTRUX models, and I am not sure how many are left running today. I have one in my garage, and this is the first vehicle I would consider as a replacement. I suspect the price will leave me holding onto my VTRUX for quite a while though.
@Sandy, since 2009, it’s no longer “Dodge” Ram; it’s just Ram now. The addition of a range extender is a blessing for those who occasionally need to tow with their electric truck. While the 690-mile range might be excessive for day-to-day passenger use only, it’s likely that their real focus is on acceptable towing capacity range. If we follow what we’ve learned from other electric vehicles and cut the towing range in more than half, we are left with a 300-mile range, which is ideal for towing. Most people can go 300 miles between bathroom breaks, meals, and refueling (unless you have kids, of course). Ram has done their homework, and if they can nail the pricing, they’ll have a winner. 🚚💨
Hi Sandy! Talking about range extender, there is a company out of Austria called Obrist. They developed a 2 cylinder engine (two separate cylinders side by side that cancels vibration) capable of 50kW that fits on a model 3 frunk. If you could have a word on that it would be awesome. Link to one of their youtube below: ua-cam.com/video/aSlqw08IH5Q/v-deo.html
I disagree with Sandy for once. EV trucks will never be used for actual work until the range is extended for towing. The F150 lightning can tow 100 miles or so on a charge. That is pathetic. This Ramcharger is a step in the right direction. I say that as a Ford guy.
Statistically I wonder what percentage of truck owners who tow actually need that towing range. As long as electric covers 80-90% of users needs, that's good enough. The remaining 10% can stick with gas.
@@SpykerSpeed the other thing to keep in mind is charge time. 100 miles of towing may sound sufficient, but charging back up will take quite a while. Throw in the winter cold and that range is decreased even further. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lightning gets 80 miles in the snow while towing a covered trailer.
Mr. Munro. I love the idea of the F150 Lightning. My number one issue and why the RAM is pure gold for me is I can self fuel if needed in a pinch. Our ranch is very remote and electric would be fine. I just need to ability to pour 5 gal of gas into the tank to get back to the house. If I used a lightning exclusively I would probably carry an atv with me as a back up. The RAM in my situation is the best concept yet.
@@iamalmostanonymous absolutely we could charge. We could even have fast charging put in if it came to it. Here’s the main focus. The agriculture community has been using petroleum for decades. It’s just going to take time to adopt major sweeping changes in how we produce. This platform is a logical step towards whatever lies ahead for us. Its certainly no perfect solution. I think it’s more about what we’re left with for choices. Simple mechanical diesel engines and large displacement gas engines are being phased out over time as CAFE standards change for better or worse.
Sandy, a lot of folks buy a pickup to use. I've read on several occasions that the Ford truck goes down to around 100 miles while towing, that's why the dealer inventory keeps increasing.
Sandy, a couple items I’m looking at with the Ram Charger is, I don’t have to plug in at a charger station and wait 45 minutes to recharge. Also if the power goes out in the house, we live in Florida, now I have power hooking up to the truck and I don’t need batteries for my HAM radios. Now the load is a question in towing. I really love this concept and this ISS serious decision SST HO orRam Charger.
I completely agree with Sandy. My first question was; Why such a large engine for this task? However, with the charging infrastructure essentially still in flux (except Tesla), the Ramcharger makes a lot of sense. I can charge whenever possible, but fuel up when not. That provides 'piece of mind'. Does this truck make any sense from an engineering perspective? Probably not, but this EV transition will have a lot paths before it consolidates into whatever the ultimate destination ends up being.
The RAM Charger makes all the sense in the world for towing, a subject Sandy sadly ignored. Read the comments. He 100% missed the point off the generator: towing range.
The only thing this proves is that they built the truck with the MOST points of failure {=$} possible. There are other ways to do this. It will make NO SENSE when you see the price to buy one or, worse, the price to fix one!
@@harriettanthony7352 I think you have it backwards. Compared to a traditional "parallel" hybrid, having the engine only act as a generator REDUCES points of failure because there's no physical drive train connected to it (transmission, driveshaft, etc).
I have heard people complaining that their batteries lose capacity during cold months. In Western Canada, where temperatures drop to -30C and stay that way, it will be an issue if you drive a truck for work. Something like Ramcharger could find some customers.
The Ramcharger sounds like it will be the "PHEV" that fits my current automotive needs to a "T". The 145 miles per charge will cover ALL of my daily driving (w/occasional towing at half that distance), and the gas-electric engine will take care of ALL my once-a-month long-haul towing needs. This truck, as specified, will be a game-changer for many of us if the price is competitive. I absolutely love my 2021 Ram Limited eTorque so far! Better than any truck I have owned last 40 years. The Ramcharger is going to take electrified trucks to a whole new level I think.
I agree with you on the 3.6 liter engine. I have a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica with that engine. It has pick up similar to a V-8 while getting decent fuel economy. On long trips I get around 30 miles per gallon and I have about a 300 mile range, give or take, that’s not bad for a gas powered vehicle. I hope Stellantis successful with their new pick up. With a 600 mile plus range, and my driving perhaps 100 miles a week, I would only have to gas up once a month! Keep up the good work I’m a big fan!🤭
Rang anxiety is a real thing. Ford executives tried to drive an F-150 lightning across the Midwest and couldn't because they couldn't find reliable charging stations that were functioning. That's why they made the jump to the Tesla chargers. Ram engineers loaded a lightning to capacity and made it less than 100 mi on a full charge! I frequently take camping trips throughout the west and northwest and there's no charging station at my campsite in the national forest. With the ram I could drive electric only for days and weeks at a time but whenever I do need to drive longer range across town or a long road trip, the generator fires up. I have the F-150 hybrid currently and have used its 7200W generator for off grid camping, powering anl RV, and powering lights and refrigerators and freezers at my house during power outages. That pentastar V6 might weigh 500 lb, but I'm sure the much smaller battery in the RAM at least 500 lb less than the giant battery in the Ford. A turbocharged for might be more efficient, but the torque you can get from that V6 at idle as it charges. Charges the battery will have significantly less noise, vibration and harshness. And I sure the longevity of that pennastar with its lower lifetime loads will be significantly greater.
This truck is for people who pull trailers long range and need the truck as a daily driver too. The 690 mile range is irrelevant. Towing you’ll get 350 miles per (im guessing). Also think… when towing long range you don’t need to stop at a charging station with a parking spot NOT able to fit a truck with a trailer. Summary: EV at home; pull your camper/boat long range, avoid impossible charging situation, 1 vehicle.
Once the battery is depleted to (typically) 20% - but no less than 10%, the system will not allow further discharge and maximum continuous power will no longer be the 663hp but rather the output of the generator, which is 130kw, which is174 hp (130/0.746) as 746 watts = one hp. The battery then acts as a large capacitor where the full 663hp is available for a short time until the hard discharge limit is reached. Usually this does not happen unless you are towing or speeding up a hill over a mile or so and do not give the generator enough "cruise" time to replenish the battery, in other words 174hp throughput is all you will get in the low battery state, but that is average which could be a 663hp burst, followed by 40hp to cruise at 80 mph. Towing up a long grade with a heavy load will most certainly result in just the 174hp generator throughput limit pitted against the weight of the truck + load.
We know Sandy hates plug-in hybrids, of which the new Ram is one. Here are the counter arguments: 1) Since most use is actually short trip, the plug in Ram user will mostly be able to just recharge at home/work and rarely buy liquid fuel. 2) For the occasional long trip, especially if towing heavy load, the ICE is ready to take you almost anywhere worry and hassle free. 3) The much smaller battery pack saves tremendous expense and reduces the environmental impact of making the new vehicle. You can build two or three Rams with the same amount of batteries as use for one Lightning. 4) Charging availability and time. Other than Tesla's network, most US charging networks still stink. They are unreliable, slow and hard to find. 5) The built in gas to electric power outlet function replacing a traditional generator is great for camping, household backup power and some worksite uses. Most people are trying to buy a vehicle which will both suit their daily needs and their occasional needs. For many use cases a good plug-in hybrid does that.
It amazes me how little people really lookat this product, and the information provided. 690 mile range us empty. And this truck can tow 14k miles, haul 2600lbs. Its 3/4 ton territory. That 92kwh battery will go about an hour on the freeway till it needs the engine. The extended range F150 will do about 150 miles . Thats 2 hours, then you need to stop for 45 minutes to charge. This truck will do 325 miles towing (with full charge), assuming half range when towing. Thats 4+hours between stops, and then you can refill your tank, recharge the battery if theres a charger, in the time to stretch and have a quick meal. To be able to keep enough power to move at 65-70mph on flat ground hauling 10k lb, the generator may need to output 100-150hp constantly, so thats 75-110kw. Using a small 4 cylinder may barely do it, and then you would be over-stressing the engine. Best to run a larger engine at a little more relaxed state, even if you lise some efficiency. Plus you gotta think of the noise of that generator running at a higher rpm than usual, i think id like to have it run more slowly.
Range concerns is still a concern for me with mountain passes and winter conditions for me to go visit remote family with limited charging options in Eastern Washington for me.
Sandy, it's not about driving 690 miles per day, it's about not basing all your trips around charging stations.
100%! Sandy acts like the 690 range is completely useless and it’s like he’s never considered the fact that people want to tow and people want to refuel/recharge while towing. This is way more capable and practical than the Cybertruck that’s for sure. The Cybertruck is really cool but for $100k, it does not meet the bar for what most truck owners use their vehicles for.
@@King_Cole he is also forgetting that this 690 miles of range will quickly turn into 400 or even less once a normal person seats behind the steering wheel of that truck… That F150 lighting will turn into a 100 mile range truck once you attach any trailer to it… 😂 stupid comparisons 🤷♂️
@@av7447 I could not agree more. Could even be less than 400mi but at least you can fill up and be on your way. Charging with a trailer does not really work with today's infrastructure.
Exactly!
People do like to take road trips. I don't want to worry about changing my truck. I want to put gas in it and go.
Towing, towing, towing. 690 miles is way overkill for a daily. However, even if you're a weekend warrior (like myself) and OCCASIONALLY tow 200-300 miles on a trip, the 690 is a game changer. Especially if you're towing in the winter (IE snowmobiling in WI), that range can be cut in half, and then you're talking about 345mi range, which is much more reasonable. Towing range is the only thing holding me back from an electric pickup. Although carrying around 550 extra pounds isn't ideal, especially considering the maintenance that comes along with it, this seems to be the only logical solution with current technology. I'm interested to see the pricing on it. Love your stuff, Sandy!
The engine adds an extra 550 lbs, but the battery will be about half the size of the F-150 (I'm guessing) which would save about 500 lbs. So the weight different should be about even. The standard engine maintenance will still be there, however an engine in generator mode will run under a consistent RPM and torque load its entire life, making it way more reliable and prob require less frequent servicing.
Trucks really should have gone this route 10 years ago. As it is now, it will have an advantage over pure EV trucks for maybe 3-5 years. At that time I can see 700 mile range pure EV trucks coming out. Not sure Ram can recoup their investment on this drivetrain in that short a time.
So your winter estimate of 345, that's around 75 miles of battery range and 270 of range extention. That's 10 MPG with a 27 gallon gas tank. Doesn't seem worth it. I would stick with ICE if your towing further than your battery pack allows.
@@tlangton I would agree if the truck primarily towed. The benefit to weekend warriors is having an economical vehicle to live with on a daily basis.
There is also redundancy benefits and longevity of battery...
you can Fit 1x Snow mobile in Cybertruck , and can Charge IF Electric snowmobile.
Wouldn't this truck mileage be better for someone towing and hauling. That 600 miles might become 300 with the right toy behind it. Or it could use that range to power a week long camping trip.
perhaps, but Dont forget (Hybrids) have 65% more Maintenance , than Pure BEV.
the Cooling System will be Constantly TAXED & Challenged . thermal system NOT up to PAR.
I Doubt RAM is using any HEAT pumps.
RAMcharger still Charges too SLOWLY than some BEV models (up to 350kw).
Electric , is still Cheaper than any ICE fuel.
SO, a TESLA Cybertruck has 3500lb Payload & 10,000 lb TOWING , all on Electric.
Range is about 1/2 when MAX Towing.
it may need to Supercharge more often (Recommend 60% SOC) for Towing. Charging is EVERYWHERE on Tesla network. some Locations have Pull in Chargers. Some locations are SOLAR powered.
IF, you want a Conventional BEV Truck , get a Lightning.
but, Cybertruck Outclasses the RAM & Lightning.
I do prefer the idea of a fully electric but it doesn't seem, right now, anyone can build a truck with both excellent towing range AND a low price. I'm not a truck guy. I just think about the contractors out there who tow work trailers for on site work. I guess it would depend on the mileage between jobs and charges.
Long haul towing is the only reason to buy PHEV truck
@@azorglub no, the week long camping trip is also a valid reason.
@@markplott4820the difference between this and a hybrid is the motor never does anything but charge the battery. So the strain it is minimal as well as no transmission. It’s not a terrible idea for heavy duty applications. Save money and weight with a smaller battery. I am considering it for my purpose (full time rv living with 38 foot trailer) if the Cybertruck does not have enough range.
Two big problems with EV trucks:
1) Range while towing.
2) Accessing charging stations with a trailer connected.
This solves them both, with the benefits of full electric for daily use.
Not to mention the energy required while towing gets into sorta crazy charge power needs to get replenished efficiently. It's one thing to recharge a slick little model 3 that sips the electrons...or something bit bigger than can do 350kw...but the 350kw that is the max really getting built out isn't even that fast once we're talking the 150-200kwh needed to get another reasonable leg down the road on a battery. And really to me 690 is a good range even with Model 3 like vehicle if you just don't want to actively wait on a charger after a pee or for any other reason. Drive, pee eat, whatever/where even/whenever and then sleep/charge and then repeat the next day rather than hassling with 15-30 minute charges and 1-3hours of extra time on the road vs gas in some all day for a couple or probably few days with the EV. This is what I don't get about the EV crowd...I don't want to plan some 10 hour plus trip and have the fact I got an ev forcing it to be a stop at a hotel or extra stop at a hotel when the same trip was pretty easy in one shot or two prior. Yet if the goal was all day driving range...you only stop when and where you want and just charge while sleeping and get all the EV benefits of a daily commute EV when on the road. Then I will happily abandon pure ICE and Hybrids...until then...even if I only do multiday road adventures once in a blue moon..I'll still be doing them in something that I can just pump some gas into to keep going.
I have a RAV4 Prime plug in hybrid, that works as a wonderful EV for me 80% of the time, but I can still do road trips or extra driving without a worry. I feel like this truck could be a nice daily driver with the capability of an HD truck. Sounds too good to be true! Can it be lifted a little for off road use? That’d be a miracle truck.
@@JamesBabb It has a 92kwh battery pack that only claims 145m BEV range. At $0.25/kwh, that is $23 to go 145m or $0.16/m compared to a Tesla Model 3 at $0.05/m. Still less than an ICE truck with $5/g gas that costs $0.25/m but expensive for a daily driver unless you actually need a HD truck fairly often. The Ford Maverick hybrid light truck costs less per mile at $0.12/m.
It does help fit a niche somewhat left by the Volt, except it covers those that do need to occasionally tow long distance. I'm glad they are going range extender as apposed to hybrid or plug in hybrid with a tiny battery. Good way to get those with range anxiety to realize how little they actually need for daily use.
@@werevamp I think a lot of us fully understand it's great for daily use, but don't want to have one or 2 car family and have a vehicle we really only want to use for commute as we just don't want the charging hassles on a road trip. Or have to fight over who gets the EV and who has to stop at gas station all the time if it's 2 and you want one to be gas for road trips. I rarely road trip, outside maybe a novelty road trip if I were to purchase an EV I'd only have it for commutes or road trips short enough I only destination charge maybe. I just don't want the hassle of waiting forever or just generally being stopped longer over a multiple day drive that as nearly as i can gather can end up being a 3rd night on the road vs 2 just cause the charging adds up or you have charging issues somewhere or some such.
My vote definitely goes for the 1500 Ram. I don’t want to be tied to a range when I spend big dollars on a truck. I want to have the option to drive my truck anywhere. THANK YOU RAM!!!
This is American freedom, have cake, eat it too. Count me IN.
Absolutely. I think Munro missed the whole point of this vehicle. This car can really be used to transport your family and tow at the same time, without being tied to charging for an hour after an hour of travel
There are pros and cons to everything. The point Sandy was making is you have to stop for breaks anyways. While you stop and eat, your EV is charged back up. The cons to the ram is complexity. Now you have two complete systems plus all the complex integrations that can break down. Owning a plug-in hybrid for the last 10 years has taught me, it's not the way to go. You have all the maintenance of gas vehicle plus the gas goes stale very quickly. If you just use it as an EV the majority of time, which for the most part I do, I have to always keep my tank as close to empty as possible and run the engine every once in a while to keep everything lubricated. It really is a nuisance, and something I rarely use.
In my opinion. If your normal daily driving is 100miles plus/minus, then get an EV, If you drive or tow long distances often enough that the extra stops add up to be substantial, then get an ICE truck. Hybrids are only here for people that want an EV but are too scared to do so. I know, I was one of them. You will not be happy with it as an ICE vehicle, and you won't be happy with it as an EV.
Range extender is a must, especially on vacation, hot shot duty, hauling, all kinds of vocational uses. Average use is one thing, but on average I don't need a truck at all, but when I do, I do.
Glad to see the comments are in line with reality. I’ve been waiting for a truck like this specifically for towing. I am a BEV fan however when it comes to trucks they just don’t work towing for anything but short distances. This design is basically a locomotive on wheels. The RV industry needs to adopt this design for motor homes especially.
Speaking of the Rv haulers,, they demand diesel engines as gas under long haul runs breaks down kinda quick.. plus fuel costs more for gas over diesel.. its a energy density thing. may be a diesel variet could be a great idea. As a diesel engines prefers to load up and hold its loads for a long time.. say 4 cylinder could do well, since it can buffer the energy with the battery.
TESLA Cybertruck has 3500 lb Payload , TOW 10,000 lb .
its also ZERO Maintenance , no Belts or Pulleys that can FAIL.
can TOW up to 1/2 Total range MAX towing , and its MEDIUM, Duty class Unlike RAM, Ford, Chevy, GMC, and Rivian.
Tesla CT supports 48v System & 350 kw DC fast charging.
BEST use case in TOWING w/ any EV , Better than Maverick & RAMcharger.
when MAX Towing , just charge to 60% then go to NEXT charger. back on the road FASTER.
TESLA has the LARGEST fast charging Network in North America .
You feel like a broken ad,, all has suspension tires and so on,, nothing man made is zero maintenance. Also my car plugs in to 350KW chargers and yet i have yet to see any EV including mine touch that speed and hold a charge rate in those speeds.@@markplott4820
@@markplott4820 Teslas are not "zero maintenance or repair" vehicles. That is a myth/lie. The maintenance is different, and in some cases less than an ICE ... but it isn't zero.
Just don’t have a collision in one or hope to keep it beyond 5 to 7 years. Huge question around long term durability and parts availability beyond OEM, and who will ever be able to repair them beyond the Dealer Techs. Complicated, loaded with future failing parts, and this truck has the absolute best and absolute worst aspects of both ICE’s and EV. Rural folks and fleets will love the range Sandy, maybe just not Detroit’s suburbanites .
This is a smart move by Stellantis to bring in buyers, that would never consider an electric truck. This Ram will bring all the benefits of an electric powertrain, but have the peace of mind, to find a gas station and quickly fill up and drive.
I recently did a road trip with family from Florida to North Carolina, and that ended up being almost 10 hours. With two drivers we never stopped for longer than 15 minutes for gas, food, and restrooms. Being able to take that trip without searching for the still limited EV chargers along the way is not small thing. Additionally, we only stayed one night in NC in a town that has no EV chargers, so depending on the vehicle we may not have been able to fully recharge without an extra stop.
I think this hybrid truck is a superb answer (and stepping stone) to many drivers in the US that still need that convenient long range from time to time.
Edit: And I really hope they add a silent driving mode so we can specifically choose the quiet EV driving!
I think this is gonna be a perfect solution for a lot of people!
Full electric for day to day driving, engine generator for heavy long haul scenarios.
I was considering the lightning, but this is perfect for me.
for short day to day the v6 will not even have to start but for a long haul its there
Yeah usually I agree with sandy that people wanting that 500Km range are bit delusional... But, for a truck I understand it. If I would ever buy a truck, it would be for towing a larger boat that I know have, and sometimes I want to visit a lake that could easily be that 200Km away, which then outruns my battery quite badly.
Yup. That's why I'm interested.
yes its going to be! and if the system prooves to be even much better, it might evolve into even bigger trucks or vehicles.
Clearly Sandy has never towed anything or read about the poor range of the Lightning when towing. It seems clear this Ram is the answer to those range issues.
Haha I’m sure he’s towed things. That’s hilariously dumb to say though. So props to you - until I read something dumber, you wear the belt.
@@papafamilias92010 How can you be certain there, wise guy? He made no mention of the poor towing range with the Lightning or that that the Ram would most certainly have much better range. He seemed to only consider a narrow use case. Not everyone drives 40 miles per day. Sandy is obviously a sharp guy but he could have covered this better.
Sandy , as a guy who works out of trucks and tows a lot, this is where we need the range.
I have been hollering for years that we need a phev truck or range extended truck.
It isn't the empty range we care about. I can stop and get gas anywhere, but it is a pain while towing and costs me valuable time and miles.
I had a 1999 2500 HD Silverado that towed everything I needed but it was the 3 door version with a 6.5 foot box.
It was a great truck, but when I towed heavy , I had to refuel every 120 to 180 miles.
I run the middle of the country and we tow high speed on the interstates. Towns are far between and off of the interstates. If you miss a truck stop you have to swing off of the interstate and drive to a small town and pray you fit through the gas pumps or can get through the streets.
Time is money and stopping all of the time while towing costs you money and profit.
My newer truck is a Ram 2500 HD crew cab long box. I did not want the length but it got me a factory 50 gallon fuel tank and an empty range of 600 miles.
Towing heavy gets me 300 miles at interstate speeds.
You can cover a lot of miles quick at 70 mph.
I drive about 2 to 4 hours between stops and only stop for a very short time to top off or just keep driving for 4 hours.
I love the lightning but the tow rate is too low and the tow range is too short.
The recharge time is too long.
I tried a run with my buddies truck towing 9500 lbs.
A range extender on the smaller battery truck with more towing capacity would be just the ticket.
They should put the 4 cylinder turbo or like engine in as the generator
I agree, the lightening is unreasonable for many people in the midwest who have to haul for work.
Perfect. This is exactly the kind of real world use that Sandy’s empty vehicle analysis needs to consider when looking at these vehicles!
The engine won't be high revving or strained so in this case the V6 they chose is a better option
I have run all kinds of power plants. My current runner truck is a 2021 silverado with the 4 cylinder turbo and it has more torque than a v6 at a lower rpm and is more efficient on fuel than than any V6 I have run. I used to be a generator and diesel mechanic in the military. A generator is more efficient under a constant load and demands high torque not h.p. That is why a diesel generator is better and more efficient than a gas engine. The turbo 4 cylinder engines of today are very similar to a diesel engine in their torque curve.
I forgot to add that the 4 cylinder turbo is more efficient and weighs less than the v6 and that is another consideration.
@@Yielar1
Sandy is not. Truck guy and may understand the mechanics but clearly has no clue how most people actually use trucks
Back in the 90's I put a small Lister air cooled 4 cyl diesel engine with generator (bought it US Military surplus, in a Dodge Dakota along with 4 truck batteries and a couple of huge capacitors (also surplus). I had an aircraft starter / generator hooked up to the driveshaft replacing the transmission (simplifying here it took a lot of work and some custom machining to get all this to work together, a friend built the SCR electrical system because that was WAY beyond my skills ).
I drove that truck for a bit more than 100K around Houston and it was quite functional and pleasant to drive. It had plenty of power on the city streets and did the speed limit on the highways that crisscross the town (so it might be 20 miles from one side of town to the other for me).
That thing just sipped fuel, 52 MPG, and I hauled 500 to 600 pounds in the bed all the time.
I've always wondered why no manufacturer didn't do something similar. Nowadays trucks are huge, the smaller trucks did as well on many tasks and sure were easier to maneuver and park than today's monster trucks.
It developed a short in the generator windings and I couldn't get it repaired or replaced so that was the end of Frankentruck.
Some of us regularly do 450-600 mile runs in our trucks. Yes, we stop to pee, but not to eat. Sandwiches prepared in advance are consumed while driving. I currently do this in a RAM Ecodiesel. An F150 Lighning will not work for for me; it would waste too much time at charging stops. But the Ramcharger might. :)
Hey Sandy, biggest hold back of electric trucks is range under load. Electric trucks need to be able to tow and haul, be it a half ton, a 1 ton or larger. Until battery technology makes multiple step changes forward this is what a functional working truck needs to look like. We need someone to get fully behind this concept and development. Edison Motors enters the chat!
Electric trucks haul just fine with effectively no impact on range (under 5% reduction at max payload in my Lightning). Towing is definitely a concern though. Thankfully I don't tow, I just use the bed and the Lightning does everything I need very well.
Look around at the trucks in a city area. Most are owned by contractors with toolboxes and supplies. There's not much towing other than by landscape contractors in the suburbs. What I'm trying to say is that most urban truck usage is compatible with electric trucks. Boating, farm, RVs, etc will still have to stay ICE. THere is a concept of self powered towable RVs that increase the range under load of the towing vehicle.
@vipahman , believe me, there are way more trailers out there than you realize. Regardless, the extra weight in the bed and the extra bodies in the cab add a lot more weight than you think. Add in speed, hills/resistance and temps being above or below the optimal levels, and you are reduced even more.
@@jmackinjersey1 HD (3/4 and 1 tonne) pick up trucks in today's market are all still ICE. EV pick up trucks are for LD use cases for model year 2024. Speed, hills/resistance and temps being above or below the optimal levels, and you are reduced the same with ICE pick up trucks and are no different than BEV.
Also cold winter climates dramatically reduce range so this design is much better than a pure electric in many aspects. Best of both worlds and the first series hybrid truck with no mechanical connection to the motor which will reduce strain and maintenance costs.
As a camper I'm very excited about the Ram. It can put out 4.8kW of AC power through a socket in the bed. So I can load a truck camper, plug it in to the truck, and use it like a giant house battery to run air conditioning, hot water, induction cooking, a space heater, and low draw items like lights and a water pump. Wonderful! All the comforts of camping with a generator, without the noise, maintenance, and expense. The big range and fossil fuel power source means that I can go into the boonies in a way that isn't be possible with the Lightning.
yes I agree with you 100%
This will work... for now 😮
I'm thinking of a pop up camper, 2 to 4 LiFpo Batteries and solar panels on top of camper. Talk about extended trips.
Imagine this setup in a Sprinter/ProMaster size van. A mobile office with quiet electric power & heat, and no worries about refueling.
@@donswier Yes especially since the ProMaster could finally get 4 wheel drive with electric motors in the rear wheels.
You mentioned a 4 cyl which makes sense, smaller, lighter, etc. The engine heat generated can heat the cab, living space or be a water heater. This setup will give endless power at a work site, camping, home power outage, emergency power station and more. Thinking outside the Volt.
I am excited with the potential this platform will provide. I tow an 11,000 lb trailer with a 6.7 diesel. I installed a 55 gallon fuel tank and I can't wait until the electrics are half as good as my diesels range. This Ram is a promising start.
This is the perfect use case for me. I'd love to have electric for daily driving and the range extension for RV Towing.
Yes, while being smart and not having a lower powered engine mode. Generator extender is smart.
Would LOVE for a heavy duty version for 5th wheel.
if they do a heavy duty version i would prefer the diesel fuel. and all those long range hotshot drivers would to.@@PhotoHoag
@@PhotoHoagthe Ram charger has 8 wheel lug nuts so it’s basically closer to a 3/4 ton then it is a 1/2 ton
I wanna see someone put a fifth wheel on it and seee what happens
@@Kylewraps that's interesting! Be interested in seeing those tests.
I agree so much, I put $100 down on one. It's like....600hp luxo truck, that tows 14,000, has air ride like a luxury car, is 4wd, Runs 90% of the time on cheap electricity, and then gets 20mpg when it does burn gas? Take my goddamn money!
That range is great for overlanding/offroading where you spend extended time out in the backcountry.
And especially for towing. That 690 miles becomes 300 miles or less depending on weather and the aerodynamics of your load.
They should really just go straight diesel if they're using the engine as a range extender. Diesels are way better as generators especially running at a fixed RPM at ideal load. It even makes sense from a health perspective because the big scare around diesels is the NOX emissions which are more harmful to humans, but with that electric range and regen braking you'll hardly ever need to run that generator in urban traffic.
And it's also not if you need 690 miles, it's if you need more than the next highest truck.
@@ResonantFrequency More customers are familiar with gasoline and gasoline is more widely available than diesel - every gas station sells gas - so while diesel would be more efficient for a ICE-Electric hybrid powertrain, gasoline is a better choice for the market at which this truck is aimed.
@@ResonantFrequency or Atkinson, which is cleaner, cheaper and wouldn't require DPF and DEF.
I could see a multifuel generator engine being the next step. Having the ability to run on whatever is cheap and plentiful in the area would be a huge advantage in the future. I have had good luck with CNG and Propane in the past. No issues with fuel going bad from sitting in the tank for extended periods of time when you are just plugging in all of the time and not using the extender. RNG is a good fuel to make use of as well.
@@killer2600
When they get this platform in the diesels, it will be a game changer for us 10hour drivers🤘🏼🤣
Sandy just revealed himself as someone who doesn't tow. Any truck owner who does tow will immediately recognize the value a range extender provides.
then you haven't tried the Cybertruck , yet.
Exactly!! Towing with the Lightning is impossible. The range drops to 100 miles if you're lucky. Then you have to sit and recharge for 30 to 45 minutes. Turns an 8 hour trip into a 12 hour trip.
Sandy goes off road to hunt - never heard him mention any other truck use.
@@tycurtin756575% of truck owners tow once a year or less. While I would question why they then need a truck when an SUV would likely be more practical, such is consumer choice.
We should recognize that the vast majority of the truck market really wouldn’t need a REX option. For the segment that does this is great to have as an option, and I would be curious like Sandy was if a smaller engine could make this package even more efficient
@@tycurtin7565gets a lot more than 100 miles heck even TL trucks got 150 miles towing 10k lbs up the Ike Gauntlet which is a crazy over the top test. I'm with you that we need more range and we see the ground up designed EVs coming from GM with 450+ miles and 350kw charging. Only a matter of time. Ford's next gen EV truck built from the ground up is expected in 25
Sandy points out 690 miles range being excessive BUT doesnt talk about range WHEN towing or when simply driving at highway speeds of 75 mph What's the actual real world range would be...id guess no better than 275-325 miles based on load size and maybe 500+ miles at highway speeds with minimial to no load. So Sandy perhaps a follow up from that perspective!? And that should be with every eV OR PHEV that can tow.
Use the Ford as your guide. Complaints were that even at a 400 mile range, you were in the 100s towing. Add weather to that, and people were sub 100 miles when towing. Having a generator onboard means you can tow forever by just putting gas in it. It should be noted that Ram claimed a 135kw output from the gas engine, so with the entire battery depleated you'd still be fine driving around town but that's not enough power to pull 14,000lbs up a hill at highway speed. The good news is that the gas engine can run full time, so when you are NOT using it's full 135kw to drive the truck, the excess goes back into the battery.
Look even a gassers range is cut in half towing a camper. 690 miles will render around 200 with a ramcharger
A Gladiator (with the identical pentastar engine) gets in the single digits when towing. 200 miles towing is fine, and then you stop at a gas station. Big whoop. @@bob15479
Seems to me that if you're going to go with a range extender, it needs to be a ground up engine build to minimize weight. A constant speed, non drive ICE doesn't need to be as strong as anything designed for variable rpm drive systems: Not to mention that intake and exhaust systems ,among others, would benefit from specialization to a very narrow rpm range.
Just switch it to run on the Atkinson cycle and you are set.
That would add a lot of cost and time to market. Maybe if it gets a second generation
the BEST Engine , is NO Engine in the FIRST place.
BEV has Superior POWER & Torque . and can REGEN Downhill.
@@bradweinberger6907 it adds literally no engineering time.
just go to caterpillar and buy a generator engine from them.
or use the jeep ecodiesel with new intake and exhaust timing.
@@natelarson5747 They'll be using the Pacifica Hybrid version of the 3.6L which is Atkinson.
That range comes into play when doing truck things. The others become basically useless when towing or going long distance while this eliminates those drawbacks.
MOST People dont ever MAX Tow w/ Truck or go on Long Road trips.
MOST people use as Daily Driver, Groceries, Errands and MALL crawler. 90% of the time.
RAMcharger is a waste in those cases.
@@markplott4820 Right, because a big ole Hemi chugging around parking lots makes much more sense 🤦♂️.
@@markplott4820 Most people that live in cities and don't need a truck in the first place. I drive over 150 miles one way when I need to go to the city for doctor appointments or shopping and usually take an SUV for that. I need a truck that can haul equipment to the pasture and last all day towing a trailer. When I go to the field I am there from sunup to sundown and use my truck off and on all day long moving heavy loads. The fully electric trucks are not there and will not last a full 14 hour day in the fields doing farm work. In the fall and winter I use my truck to haul wood from the woods that I cut to heat my home and there are no chargers in my hay fields or the woods where I cut wood but I do have fuel storage tanks in my pasture for my farm equipment. So no I don't do long road trips in my truck but I do live in my truck about 6 days a week in the fields or woods and I don't have a way to stop and charge. At least this will fill the gap until better technology comes along.
Like this approach and see it as a good stepping stone during the transition to full EV. Also see big advantage to extend towing range and not having to figure how to get into a charging station when towing something. Being able to use that generator that can be quickly filled and charge back up while driving is a big advantage.
Love your reviews .
Ummmm, RAM had over 3 Decades to offer a EREV - Range Extender truck , then go FULL BEV in 2010 .
RAM and every other Truck OEM , has Waisted time on the Transition.
all the Technology was already in Place in 2010 . (Chevy VOLT).
both FORD and gm had FULL BEV Light Pickup trucks in 1990's , that FAILED because they were NIMH battery.
however , National Parks & Forrest service used them , also Fish & Game Rangers.
Imagine IF they used 1865 Li cells instead.
@@markplott4820you act like there is no such thing as physics. The batteries you want simply do not exist
Every hotshotter and full-time RVer would *love* the Ramcharger!
After you deplete the battery you're only going to have around 200 horsepower left to run all accessories including the motors when running on the generator only. Not saying that's not enough Or it's gonna be an issue just something to think about.
@@Crazypostman An old saying goes, it's better to be silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt. Quite fitting in this case.
Spoken as someone who knows not of what they speak and possibly has no experience in this area, as well.
With a long history from nuclear power to batteries, I can confidently say that the Stellantis engineers won't let the batteries become depleted. As long as there's fuel in the tank, the Pentastar 3.6L V6 will power the 130kW (continuous) generator, providing ample power to charge the 92kWh battery pack.
@@Crazypostman That's plenty. Demand on average will be less than 200 HP. That's 149 kW, enough to replenish the battery in about 35 minutes.
thanks, Sandy and crew
My biggest suprise from this, is that the ram has a decent amount of range on electric,, i was expecting their tiny 40 mile rang like the jeep and mini van.
Battery in the ram is 100kw. I think the Jeep is around 20-40
I currently own a plug in hybrid that only gets 30 miles. It works great for my wife because she drives it back and forth from work and still has 90% battery left. That saved my 5.7 hemi from short distance driving. Know comes the part I don't enjoy about it. It also has a small tank of 11 gallons, so between battery and gas, my range is 300 miles till I have to fill it up again. Although it runs more efficiently than my hemi, i have to fill up more frequently with the small tank that I don't love. My family lives 4 hours from me. I would love to make a trip there and back on a single tank. Sandy wonders why anyone would need that. I dont need that in a single trip, but spread out not seeing a pump between. I would welcome that! Lightning is the better choice! Why? Any weight drastically changes the range in it. Ford EV is now a soft hands (office man, engineer, sales) truck that is a weekend home depot warrior. Put tools in it and your not going anywhere but walmart to charge it constantly.
@travisjensen4023
What particular plugin hybrid do you have???
I wouldn't looks at the range as 10 hours of driving, I would look at it as being able to use your truck as a generator at the work site all day and still being able to drive home
Also remember its going to be able to get about 400 miles of range while towing and in an EV charging while towing is not a great thing unless you unhitch.
exactly
Didn't see your comment until after I made mine, at least 8 of us have the same idea.
I could eat off of a saucer half the time but we all use dinner plates
@@cheapgeek62 actually i use 20oz disposable paper bowls
Hey Sandy, your experience is immense but your life is different than others and you need to remember how that impacts your conclusions. This RAM is not geared towards 10 hour drivers they are unicorns. Instead, if I was a higher mileage person (tradesman/parent/ RE agent/ long commuter etc) and didn’t have to fill up my car/truck/ van but once a week then I’d have more productive time back in my pocket. If I could plug in overnight and rarely need to visit a smelly dirty gas station that is also a productive time banking opportunity plus a quality of life improvement. Having to nearly never look towards that fuel gauge with a sense of dreaded anticipation is priceless. There are a lot of drivers in that category who will benefit from this. I experienced this revelation with my tiny battery Range Extender BMWi3. In 35,000 miles of shorter commuting driving I put 7 gallons of fuel in it. 4 fill-up’s! I just plugged it in every night. Cheap easy driving true bliss. Those RAM range numbers are real life, daily task, real dollar, changing for a lot of drivers.
towing .85 mile range of cyber tuck. vs probably 200 to 30o mile
I assume Ram is targeting those who want to tow, particularly those towing for recreation, which often requires more miles. Towing will cut the range way down, but still enough to be practical, which I think is their goal.
Towing typically cuts the BEV range in half, give or take. With the extender, you may see a bit more range, but not substantial. Especially if you are at 10k lbs or more.
But how many kilowatts can the generator produce i'm assuming you'll have a big cut in power output once you deplete the battery.
@@jmackinjersey1 But if the range is cut in half it is still better than what you would get in a BEV truck, towing the same load. On top of that it will be easier to fill the tank than find a charger in remote areas of the country.
@@Crazypostman I'm assuming it will not cut power if the battery is drained. I also assume you can elect to run on battery only, for as long as it lasts, or generator only. That way, if running on generator only when driving, you can tap the battery for other things, while camping or at a work site.
@@CrazypostmanI read 145kwh so no it won't cut the power when the battery depletes. You'll be able to use the generator to power the battery and either charge or just use the energy for propulsion
Good to see finally practical innovation from RAM..For this segment it seems tro make sense to have ICE, Hybrid and EV options.. would like to see manufacturers innovating now on the shape of the cab and by that I mostly mean the upright back seat/rear part of the cab..
Honestly, I really do like these developments, very rarely, do you need to drive more than 140 miles on a day.
So it’ll mostly be electric , but you can do everything that the lightning can. He can presumably run all your equipment off of it.
And you can do everything that a normal truck can including towing insanely heavy loads for very long distances.
It’s probably going to be good at everything.
And honestly given that this thing is half the battery capacity, you can electrify two trucks this way for the price of one truck the way the lightning does .
I think it’s a win . Obviously, the lack of a frunk is unfortunate, but people of been OK with that for basically forever so I think this will work out for a lot of people.
That's the theory, but studies in Europe and California found a majority of people with PHEVs never plug them in. They just run them as gas vehicles but got them for the tax credits and carpool lane access they offered. Silly given the lower cost per mile if they plugged them in, but that's what the studies found.
@@kirkellis4329 I think many of those studies are flawed. Many early adopters of PHEVs were government or corporate fleets. The people using these vehicles did not buy them, and had little incentive to install an EVSE when a free gas card is the other option.
@@eric4903 Maybe, but I have a friend in his 70's that was still working with a long commute and never plugged his in. He bought it just for the carpool lane access in SoCal.
@@kirkellis4329 Benefits like HOV lane access or allowing the vehicle congested cities definitely change behavior. Never liked the idea of using congestion to drive purchase of different (electric) vehicles, as they are unrelated issues.
I definitely saw the same, and California was one of the only areas in the US that had this terrible policy.
Ram has a gamechanger on their hands. It’s the reassurance of not getting stranded that the Ramcharger provides that’s gonna win people over en masse- at least me! 🙌🏽
Great information. Love my Volt and would buy an SUV that had a similar drive train
The reason you need the extra range is if you ever tow. If you tow with an all electric vehicle, your range is gobbled up in a hurry. I can only tell my boat 90 miles round-trip with my F150 lightning, but this range extender turns this truck into a true truck that can tow along distance, basically this is a game changer
Agreed!
The 690 miles is nice if you are traveling to a remote spot or town that doesn’t have any charging station ( or charging stations that don’t work). Being able to stop at the numerous gas stations across the country and fill up so you can keep driving is one of the greatest advantages of range extended vehicles over pure electric. This will be especially true if you are towing heavy and draggy loads that require a lot of power.
Just get a diesel if you tow alot. 1 system is better than 2. ICE maintenance would make me unhappy. I do lots of my own currently because its inconvenient to deal with a mechanic and don't like being ripped off. I'll exchange the hours, expense and mess for occasionally cooling my heals charging more often when I tow.
It makes more sense for trailers to be better designed for aerodynamics, and have their own battery system for range extension, depending on the use case. It could be used throughout the year as home backup and as a virtual power plant when not in use. If I had an RV, I would want a battery system with solar. Even if parked off grid it could charge the trailer/truck system.
I had 775 mile range on my Ram 2500. I drove it from Las Vegas to Albuquerque and had to stop 4 times to rest on that trip.
I drive less than 30 miles a day.
I drive 500 miles in a day about three times every other year.
I have a Rivian now and will sell the Rivian to get the Ram. I have 2 dealerships less than 9 miles away for the Ram. The Rivian service center is 238 miles away. Getting basic warranty work done from Rivian is a 3 to 5-day process. The Ram will be a 3-hour process.
Stelantis has been doing the RamCharger in the form of the Pacifica since 2017.
I really like the idea of the Ramcharger. A lot of people want to have an EV, and use it in places where nice EV chargers simply aren’t an option. Also, in more remote places where gas is prevalent, it can be used as a home mobile backup system.
I think I can argue that 690 miles range will be cut 1/3rd when towing right ?
more like to 1/2 , as Hybrids are more HEAVY w/ more Coolant & Complex thermal system.
not to mention the Large ICE fuel tank needed.
@@markplott4820 question will towing 5000 and 14000 Lb have same reduction in range? This truck can tow 14000lb
@@RahulSinha-l5u - yes, just like ANY other vehicle, even ICE.
ICE has longer range , because of FUEL , but way less Efficient.
@@markplott4820 allow me to dumb down my question a little more .. if a vehicle towing 5000LB take a hit if 40-50% compared to its no tow range … will it experience the same range reduction while towing 14000 lb
I'm typically not a Stelantis fan, but this sounds like an excellent option if it holds up under real life, heavy towing in icy mountains driving. This is comparable to the diesel-electric systems trains have been using for nearly 100 years... stone reliable, engine operates in its preferred rpm range, no transmission to service or wear out
If you tow anything, you will need the 690 mi total range (truck only). It will probably be around 300 mi towing. In fact, most RAM owners tow something at least once a year... The range extender is for those who need to go camper with their families and are unwilling to rely on charging in fracture availability.
perhaps its Better off w/ 100% Electric RV , already in JAPAN since 2020.
they are about $550k .
Honestly it will be 200 towing but that’s same as an f150
@@bob15479 - Cybertruck will outsell, BETTER work truck
I can see people buying the RAM 1500 because they think they need the range. Then buying a BEV the next time because they find out they didn't. I can also see some going back to ICE because they never plug it in.
Seems like the perfect combination, electric for every day and gasoline when you have to while towing long range away from charging networks.
I drive from Florida to Va. (779 miles) two to three times a year and this truck would be the perfect vehicle for me.
The use of the 3.6L V6 seems to be a little overkill for the application. The specs are saying that the truck will have a 130kW generator, which is around half of the current power rating of the V6. If I were to guess, I'd say that they're using it because they simply make a lot of them and it's a very popular engine across multiple applications. Something else to consider, with it being put into a reduced power application, and with a large battery pack to make up for transient performance, I'm betting they're stripping all the advanced technology off it. You could replace variable valve timing with new fixed cams being optimized for a near single speed operation. Same would go for cylinder deactivation, a variable displacement oil pump, etc if the current gen has one (I'm not super familiar with the pentastar engines...).
The engineering and tooling is long paid off on this engine. I assume they looked at the 4-cylinder they already have and figured it wouldn't have been the right fit. Plus they already have an Atkinson version of the 3.6L to use here.
I am super familiar with Pentastar engines, and I studied the press photos. It's the same gen3 3.6 pentastar that goes in every FCA vehicle, minus the alternator, A/C compressor, and starter. 130kw is 175hp, and the standard 3.6 delievers 300hp in most trims. This tells me they have/will very much maximize it for a steady state rpm, which will probably be around 2300 where this engine likes to run. They also mentioned a two speed mode, so they will probably tweak it for two rpm. Nice. This thing is so great, I put $100 on one and I'm a cheap bastard.
@@kipamore did they remove the variable intake? I was going to buy a used diesel 2500 but now going to wait. I paid the $100
I paid the $100 too! Whatever intake is on there is the same as the current pentastar. I was not aware that those are variable intakes. The previous Pentastar wasn't, and it was rated at 305hp in the Challengers, less in other applications. I don't think it matters, because they are going to optimize it to run at some steady state rpm - likely around 2000-2500. It certainly won't be screaming along at 6000, peak power. @@nicksgarage2
690 miles range means 300+ mile range from home without the need to charge, and also potentially a 300+ mile range while towing. If the vehicle is used in an emergency setting, it will still operate when the grid has gone down. This is truly the way to go given current infrastructure.
Did I miss Sandy mentioning about the weight of the gasoline and/or diesel as well?
He also didn't mention that the smaller battery in the Ramcharger will weigh a lot less than the Lightning and will offset the range extender and it's fuel tank. Plus you don't have to carry around a full tank of gas all the time, where you do have to haul around all the extra batteries in the Lightning. This truck is perfect for my needs. Drive around on solar power most of the time and when I go towing, fill the tank as much as I need to and go.
No problem it weights less than the extra battery and the weight is variable
So I see this as a huge deal for weekend warriers like myself who use my current pickup to drive short distances (less than 30 miles a day) most of the time, but the only reason I have a pickup with a 10k pound towing package in the first place is so I have a vehicle that can haul our 8k pound RV travel trailer about 6-8x a year (once a year we go out of state on road trips that are 500+ miles). The rest of the year i putter around town in the truck and it get gas mileage in the teens at the best. On paper, the Ramcharger appeals to me to be a good daily city driver but gives up very little for those "less than 10% of the time" use cases where it needs to go longer distances or towing heavy items.
On paper, for me the ramcharger in EV mode would be ideal in the city (plus the feature to power the house from the charger port is a huge bonus) and the range booster would be amazing to have during the few times a year that I need the power and convenience of towing a 8k pound trailer 200+ miles with gasoline. We all know that EV's really shine in stop and go traffic and short distance driving (especially in the city), but today they cannot tow anything significant more than a few hundred miles at best without needing to recharge. RAM is selling the "flexibility & performance" aspect of it, and they very much have my attention. I appreciate the fact that they are not stuffing the truck so full of batteries that it weighs close to my RV all of the time.
Another big thing for me - Most EV charging stations out there today do not have "pull through" spots, so decoupling a trailer just to charge along the way is frankly a hassle on a road trip. F150 lighting can go about 150 miles on a hilly freeway with a 8k trailer (TFL guys did this test). The concept of a gas range extender allows the ability to not be dependant on EV charging in the boonies or in extreme cold weather. Just thinking about taking an EV truck towing a 8k pound travel trailer to the Rocky Mountains from Texas makes me nervous, especially once you get in the higher altitudes in the national parks (not so much because of "range anxiety", but more to do with convenience and logistics like "does the charging station allow pull through for trailers" & "will it recharge just as fast as pumping 25-30 gallons of gas"?). Sure EV charging exists up there above 8k feet, but i guarantee you it does not give the flexibility and convenience of gas in that situation (at least not today).
Refuleling with gas takes minutes and until EV trucks can do the exact same thing and be just as convenient, the general public will not be as forgiving as early adopters. This is simply a "bridge the divide" product, as most of the public is not ready for a hard cutover to EV yet. EV battery charging tech has a way to go to match the convenience of liquid refueling on road trips but this would be a better way to introduce EV tech longer term to their customers than making the hard switch EV. EV drivetrains are very much superior and people towing should appreciate it once they try it.
If I read correctly, it has 130kw generating capacity. Isn't that a bit "overkill" - I think there's a difference between extending the range (generate less Kwh than you're consuming at highway speed) and endless or continuous range. It also seems like it would be far better to make a specialized engine / generator for this application? (and use it in everything...) because a modern gas engine has a ton of stuff to make it "efficient" under varying loads and speeds. This only needs to be optimized for max power at one set rpm. You'd think that could be made small, cheap, and efficient?
If you need to tow 14000 lbs up a mountain pass you need every single of these 130 kWs. I guess the guys at TFL will soon test this truck on the Ike Gauntlet...
if the battery is decently charged it should pull the hill no generator,, but to pull a trailer thru the wind and so on.. i could see it needing more then 130KW,, also i Personaly would want enough generator to propel and slow charge so the engine can shut off part of the time..@@bernhardleopold6702
You really missed the point of having extra charge capacity since the the Ramcharger is not only charging but powering the two EV motors. Someone else has already pointed out that under the stress of going up a steep hill will use every KW and especially if towing!!!
Don't listen to Sandy, he's losing his marbles unfortunately perhaps due to his old age!!!
Yeeeeah, I'll keep my Cybertruck reservation...
I'm pretty excited with the upcoming RAM Charger and have been waiting for a series style hybrid similar to the modern locomotives for a while. It's not about driving 690 miles at one time, although that's an option for some. I like not having to charge or fill up as often. I do like the Lightning but would wait until Ford releases their ground up EV truck in 25 personally as it will have much longer range and faster charging. I won't buy an EV truck with less than 350kw charging and would like 450+ miles range to help account for cold winter range drop and towing. I think the RAM Charger is going to be extremely popular especially if they don't go crazy on the price point.
Range is never the issue with electric cars. But what IS an issue and never mentioned, is the time it takes to recharge if you're on a long trip. No one wants to stop for 30 minute recharges on a 2000 mile trip.
By the time you get food, eat, and bathroom, it's been 30-45 minutes...
I think this truck will be a great option for people in rural areas that drive longer distances where there is limited fast charging infrastructure. I would love to have one. The only downside is that this truck is going to be very expensive. I am afraid that it will be prohibitively expensive for most.
With half the battery size of the Ford, this truck should actually be cheap and lighter. More than enough to offset the cost of the engine. Batteries are heavy and expensive.
@@kipamore The larger Ford battery is 131 kW usable, 42% larger. Also the relationship between capacity and weight is not linear.
Understood, but I imagine it's more linear than not. Meaning that compared to a Hummer or Silverado, this battery is going to be substantially lighter, and substantially cheaper. Both would more than offset the cost of a the gas engine, especially one that FCA builds literally 1 million of every year. Another factor I want to learn more about is battery degredation. In 10 years, this battery will still be working but it's capacity will be less. In 20 years, even if it's capacity is very low (unacceptably low in a normal EV) this thing may still be perfectly useable. I'd be FINE with a 50 mile battery for daily use. Chevy Volt owners were delighted with a 40 mile battery. Jeep 4xE owners are happy with a 24 mile battery. It's something to think about. @@iamalmostanonymous
The RAM 1500 Ramcharger is essentially a Volt-style plug-in hybrid. There is a niche where this vehicle makes sense and, as Sandy says, is a step in the right direction. BUT... using gasoline to generate electricity to power motors is INCREDIBLY inefficient, and does not do much to lower CO2 emissions. It also precludes, as Sandy also noted, a frunk. As a 2023 F-150 Lightning owner, I think the truck's huge frunk is one of its three best features, and is one of the things that makes it the best work truck on the planet.
Range extender is good for hauling that 14,000 pounds.
So it's pointless, just have a ICE truck why have the extra complexity of an hybrid system
The ramcharger looks like something that might be interesting on the used market in 8-10 years, moreso than a proper BEV. I imagine battery degradation will be less of a concern with a range extender phev, particularly when it has the buffer that the ramcharger will have. At least, for people who already own and are accustomed to PHEVs
Indeed - just like the Volt - and actually many plug-in hybrids, the Ramcharger is a fantastic one-stop-shop vehicle for all your needs. You can use just the battery for like 90% of your driving, but when it comes time for towing an 8000lb travel trailer on a 3000-mile trip, you'll be happy you don't have to worry about stopping at charging stations. The best I saw on UA-cam for the F-150 Lightning extended battery was 200 miles with a trailer. Then, you can't just drive into a charging spot, you have to uncouple the trailer and yadda yadda. So, again, this is the ultimate solution until they have a much richer network of pull-through ultra fast charging stations for people who tow. Maybe in 10 years...
as someone that can easily drive 150 miles a day or towing longer distances the ramcharger sounds like a game changer to me
RAM is almost the defacto pickup for horse hauling. Waiting around for a charge with horses getting antsy in your trailer is a no-go. The Eco-diesel powertrain was perfect for this. It has a 600 mile range, which reduced to about 400-ish towing a 3 horse trailer (and getting ~20 mpg while towing). This will be great to see how the gobs and gobs of electric torque do on towing in the Ramcharger. I'll be interested to see how it tests on TFLTruck's "gauntlet" test in Colorado, and Stellpower's "Will it horse" tests. Once again "If you want to haul, buy a Ford. If you want to tow, buy a Ram. Just don't buy a Chevy", Still the best advice I received from my Farming relatives.
Good synopsis :)
TESLA Cybertruck is like HOLD my Horses.
Eco diesel was a failure and unreliable af
@@Kylewraps I own a Gen 1, that is approaching 100K miles. While this engine has it's issues (and recalls), 26 mpg on highway for a 5500lb 4x4 has saved us a boatload of money, and it has never stranded us. One of the big issues, was that oil change places used car oil in the diesel, which results in coking and oil related failure. I do all the maintenance. So far, no problems not covered under warranty, and we can still tow a horse across three states on a single tank of fuel and get 19-20 mpg. it's good to know, in 3 years I will have options when it's due to be replaced.
@@dandeclerck6742 yea but you’re still paying 25% more for diesel fuel aren’t you? So it would’ve been sake cost if you bought a. F150 V8 or Chevy V8 wouldn’t it? Those get 23 mpg highway these days the ford 24 mpg 24.5
I love hearing Sandy talk tech details but I’m not sure he understands the market well. If 690 miles of range is unladen, it will drop a LOT under towing and after adding passengers and cargo. That kind of heavy, high-mile usage makes the Lightning useless as we’ve seen on several UA-cam videos. And the average 40 miles daily driving may be true in aggregate, but heavy-hauling and -towing vehicles are not just briefcase commuters or grocery getters! The market for these vehicles is specialized. Why does Sandy talk apples and oranges with the overall market versus what this truck can do and the kind of buyers and purpose it’s designed for?
Good point on the advantages of Ram range and heavy hauling capacity. However I think most pickup buyers today ARE in-fact commuters and grocery getters. By far the vast majority of truck owners.
As a Chevy Volt owner, I really would have liked to see GM evolve the Voltec platform to other vehicles. They have all the patents (apparently duplicated with minor changes by Toyota, Stellantis, et al today). Most personal truck owners would probably use the EV mode for getting to their job and back, and switch to hybrid mode for hauling and long distance trips. Stellantis could have probably saved some weight and shaved off a few tenths off their acceleration times by using a smaller battery pack. While the added complexity of the ICE engine can be daunting - most people wont use the ICE more than 20% of the time, so maintenance isn't as big of an issue as one would assume (in 85,000 miles on the Volt, I've only had to change the oil and get the brakes and coolant flushed albeit I did have additional costs related to the overall platform that should have been recalls - but weren't (Chevy gave me an extra year on my powertrain warranty as compensation)). If I was buying a truck, I would probably roll the dice on the 1500 (persistent check-engine lights and all) since I'm a bit Ford-averse :D
If you do not know about it lookup the Via Motors VTRUX. I wish the concept took off more; if GM had built it directly I think it would have been a winner. Doing a lot of what this Ramcharger is capable of a decade ahead.
A large pack is required for its power output. Higher average power output will degrade the battery faster. 5C for a 92 kW pack is 460 kW or ~ 600 hp. That's really pushing the battery pack already and shrinking it would increase the C rate.
Hey Sandy,
Always appreciate your video's, commentary, and opinions! With the EV race, adoption I have been excited to see what is next, who is coming up with the next best thing to solve and improve their platforms.
I realize you (Munro and Associates) were contracted by Rivian to streamline and improve their process. As I remember in your video, you believed there was a 30% + available of improvement in there vehicles and platform. Very excited to see the new RS2 along with the updated RT/RS 1's!
I see that Rivian has reduced the "cost $ of loss" for each vehicle sold, and hopefully with the improvements coming, that can be reversed to profit $ per vehicle sold. I would imagine Munro and Associates had something to do with this in working with RJ.
When Ram announced REV, last year. I was very happy to hear that Stellantis was getting into the game as I have enjoyed the RAM brand Trucks for the last decade. Your review here of the RAM Charger is interesting and I applaud it, not that you need that from me.
The REV is advertised to have 350 mile range with a 168 kw battery, with option of 500 mile range with 229 kw battery.
You, and Tesla engineers (CT), all talk about big batteries are not necessary when you have to stop to pee and such, that charging will be available. This backed up by the statistics show the need for large range is few compared to the masses. All good, however ...
Currently the CYBER Truck, has seen range test's ranging in 184 to 190 miles (Production Customer Owned), with an advertised range of 300 to 340 miles. The excuse is the tires are not all-season, but all terrain, and they are going to get less range due to resistance, also I am hearing the 46/80 cell is not giving the range and charge times expected. This is a large percentage of change from the advertised range, and with charge times much longer than anticipated, supposedly.
Ram REV has chosen to go with an option of 229 kw, one that will help with towing and more. This would be housed in a EV platform frame and pak, under the occupant/cargo area.
www.ramtrucks.com/revolution/ram-1500-rev.html
OK, so here we go, some would say, we need more range for these items and of course, towing. I know that they are working refining, updating the software for the 46/80 cells, and more. Tesla is to offer a extra battery pak for the bed of the CT to accomplish this. Interesting method, one that will solve a lot, probably, but at the cost of money and space in the bed?
What is your opinion, with out having an actual unit to look at, of the RAM REV? Do you have one on order for you and your team analyze?
The next day, after Ram REV was announced, I put in a reservation for it. As my reservation for CT, was placed 09/2020, not to be delivered (estimated) till 03/2026.
I love both, as they both have pros and cons, and hopefully Stellantis adopts the North American Standard (Tesla) charging network as Ford, GM, Rivian and more to follow soon.
PS, RIVIAN, is advertising a 400 mile range on RT1, what is it really? You and your wife love yours that you purchased ....
Thank You,
John Quevillon
Engineering Explained has covered towing with EV's before. It's a challenge to say the least. The Ram will be great for that use case, which covers a lot of those who can afford this thing (the suburban yuppie)
Chevy used to sell a hybrid truck that could run a welder. I could see a market for range extended vehicles that can run 240V equipment in the field where there are no other electrical connections. The truck engine should be beefier than any generator that isn't pulled behind as a trailer.
Range extension is the most practical solution until the charging infrastructure becomes reliable and also when towing. More importantly, it is the solution for rural people who have to travel for everything but the basics. GM had the chance to bring this to market years ago as they were working with VIA Motors who were installing this technology in GM 1/2 tons not long after the Volt hit the market. Looks like VIA are only producing commercial platforms now so the partnership must have ended. I actually expected GM to do this shortly after Bob Lutz became a member of the board for VIA. GM is being left behind yet again.
I think Via Motors only made around 250 VTRUX models, and I am not sure how many are left running today. I have one in my garage, and this is the first vehicle I would consider as a replacement. I suspect the price will leave me holding onto my VTRUX for quite a while though.
@Sandy, since 2009, it’s no longer “Dodge” Ram; it’s just Ram now. The addition of a range extender is a blessing for those who occasionally need to tow with their electric truck. While the 690-mile range might be excessive for day-to-day passenger use only, it’s likely that their real focus is on acceptable towing capacity range. If we follow what we’ve learned from other electric vehicles and cut the towing range in more than half, we are left with a 300-mile range, which is ideal for towing. Most people can go 300 miles between bathroom breaks, meals, and refueling (unless you have kids, of course). Ram has done their homework, and if they can nail the pricing, they’ll have a winner. 🚚💨
Hi Sandy! Talking about range extender, there is a company out of Austria called Obrist. They developed a 2 cylinder engine (two separate cylinders side by side that cancels vibration) capable of 50kW that fits on a model 3 frunk. If you could have a word on that it would be awesome. Link to one of their youtube below:
ua-cam.com/video/aSlqw08IH5Q/v-deo.html
This truck is perfect. Electric daily , gas road trips.
I disagree with Sandy for once. EV trucks will never be used for actual work until the range is extended for towing. The F150 lightning can tow 100 miles or so on a charge. That is pathetic. This Ramcharger is a step in the right direction. I say that as a Ford guy.
Statistically I wonder what percentage of truck owners who tow actually need that towing range. As long as electric covers 80-90% of users needs, that's good enough. The remaining 10% can stick with gas.
@@SpykerSpeed the other thing to keep in mind is charge time. 100 miles of towing may sound sufficient, but charging back up will take quite a while. Throw in the winter cold and that range is decreased even further. I wouldn’t be surprised if the lightning gets 80 miles in the snow while towing a covered trailer.
@BrandonElbers your a gumba sir....
@@KingAquariumJunkie and you need to learn English lol
@BrandonElbers lol... nah I gets by just fine......
Mr. Munro. I love the idea of the F150 Lightning. My number one issue and why the RAM is pure gold for me is I can self fuel if needed in a pinch. Our ranch is very remote and electric would be fine. I just need to ability to pour 5 gal of gas into the tank to get back to the house. If I used a lightning exclusively I would probably carry an atv with me as a back up. The RAM in my situation is the best concept yet.
Maybe I misread this. Can you not charge at your ranch?
@@iamalmostanonymous absolutely we could charge. We could even have fast charging put in if it came to it. Here’s the main focus. The agriculture community has been using petroleum for decades. It’s just going to take time to adopt major sweeping changes in how we produce. This platform is a logical step towards whatever lies ahead for us. Its certainly no perfect solution. I think it’s more about what we’re left with for choices. Simple mechanical diesel engines and large displacement gas engines are being phased out over time as CAFE standards change for better or worse.
Sandy, a lot of folks buy a pickup to use. I've read on several occasions that the Ford truck goes down to around 100 miles while towing, that's why the dealer inventory keeps increasing.
Almost 100 kWh battery and a huge V6, comical.
If you go hybrid, serial is the way to go. A 3 cilinder with turbo would have been sufficient
That you for highlighting the difference between a highbred and a range extender.
Sandy, a couple items I’m looking at with the Ram Charger is, I don’t have to plug in at a charger station and wait 45 minutes to recharge. Also if the power goes out in the house, we live in Florida, now I have power hooking up to the truck and I don’t need batteries for my HAM radios. Now the load is a question in towing. I really love this concept and this ISS serious decision SST HO orRam Charger.
I completely agree with Sandy. My first question was; Why such a large engine for this task? However, with the charging infrastructure essentially still in flux (except Tesla), the Ramcharger makes a lot of sense. I can charge whenever possible, but fuel up when not. That provides 'piece of mind'. Does this truck make any sense from an engineering perspective? Probably not, but this EV transition will have a lot paths before it consolidates into whatever the ultimate destination ends up being.
The RAM Charger makes all the sense in the world for towing, a subject Sandy sadly ignored. Read the comments. He 100% missed the point off the generator: towing range.
The only thing this proves is that they built the truck with the MOST points of failure {=$} possible. There are other ways to do this. It will make NO SENSE when you see the price to buy one or, worse, the price to fix one!
@@harriettanthony7352 I think you have it backwards. Compared to a traditional "parallel" hybrid, having the engine only act as a generator REDUCES points of failure because there's no physical drive train connected to it (transmission, driveshaft, etc).
Great solution! Would love to see this in the new generation of Challenger/Chargers as well
I have heard people complaining that their batteries lose capacity during cold months. In Western Canada, where temperatures drop to -30C and stay that way, it will be an issue if you drive a truck for work. Something like Ramcharger could find some customers.
At least Ram is thinking outside the box.
Wow,mindblowing and gamechanging!
i have driven across the country many times now. and i would love that range.
300 miles towing in the cold is really good range. Camper towers will love this.
Sandy, Thanks for your insight
The Ramcharger sounds like it will be the "PHEV" that fits my current automotive needs to a "T". The 145 miles per charge will cover ALL of my daily driving (w/occasional towing at half that distance), and the gas-electric engine will take care of ALL my once-a-month long-haul towing needs. This truck, as specified, will be a game-changer for many of us if the price is competitive. I absolutely love my 2021 Ram Limited eTorque so far! Better than any truck I have owned last 40 years. The Ramcharger is going to take electrified trucks to a whole new level I think.
I agree with you on the 3.6 liter engine. I have a 2017 Chrysler Pacifica with that engine. It has pick up similar to a V-8 while getting decent fuel economy. On long trips I get around 30 miles per gallon and I have about a 300 mile range, give or take, that’s not bad for a gas powered vehicle. I hope Stellantis successful with their new pick up. With a 600 mile plus range, and my driving perhaps 100 miles a week, I would only have to gas up once a month! Keep up the good work I’m a big fan!🤭
I wish ford would come out with a Ranger that had this capability. The technology is exactly what I need but I don't need jumbo sized truck.
Rang anxiety is a real thing. Ford executives tried to drive an F-150 lightning across the Midwest and couldn't because they couldn't find reliable charging stations that were functioning. That's why they made the jump to the Tesla chargers. Ram engineers loaded a lightning to capacity and made it less than 100 mi on a full charge! I frequently take camping trips throughout the west and northwest and there's no charging station at my campsite in the national forest. With the ram I could drive electric only for days and weeks at a time but whenever I do need to drive longer range across town or a long road trip, the generator fires up. I have the F-150 hybrid currently and have used its 7200W generator for off grid camping, powering anl RV, and powering lights and refrigerators and freezers at my house during power outages. That pentastar V6 might weigh 500 lb, but I'm sure the much smaller battery in the RAM at least 500 lb less than the giant battery in the Ford.
A turbocharged for might be more efficient, but the torque you can get from that V6 at idle as it charges. Charges the battery will have significantly less noise, vibration and harshness. And I sure the longevity of that pennastar with its lower lifetime loads will be significantly greater.
This truck is for people who pull trailers long range and need the truck as a daily driver too. The 690 mile range is irrelevant. Towing you’ll get 350 miles per (im guessing). Also think… when towing long range you don’t need to stop at a charging station with a parking spot NOT able to fit a truck with a trailer. Summary: EV at home; pull your camper/boat long range, avoid impossible charging situation, 1 vehicle.
Dude is detached from reality by a big Ford paycheck...just look at the comments, the RamCharger is what we want.
Once the battery is depleted to (typically) 20% - but no less than 10%, the system will not allow further discharge and maximum continuous power will no longer be the 663hp but rather the output of the generator, which is 130kw, which is174 hp (130/0.746) as 746 watts = one hp. The battery then acts as a large capacitor where the full 663hp is available for a short time until the hard discharge limit is reached. Usually this does not happen unless you are towing or speeding up a hill over a mile or so and do not give the generator enough "cruise" time to replenish the battery, in other words 174hp throughput is all you will get in the low battery state, but that is average which could be a 663hp burst, followed by 40hp to cruise at 80 mph. Towing up a long grade with a heavy load will most certainly result in just the 174hp generator throughput limit pitted against the weight of the truck + load.
We know Sandy hates plug-in hybrids, of which the new Ram is one. Here are the counter arguments: 1) Since most use is actually short trip, the plug in Ram user will mostly be able to just recharge at home/work and rarely buy liquid fuel. 2) For the occasional long trip, especially if towing heavy load, the ICE is ready to take you almost anywhere worry and hassle free. 3) The much smaller battery pack saves tremendous expense and reduces the environmental impact of making the new vehicle. You can build two or three Rams with the same amount of batteries as use for one Lightning. 4) Charging availability and time. Other than Tesla's network, most US charging networks still stink. They are unreliable, slow and hard to find. 5) The built in gas to electric power outlet function replacing a traditional generator is great for camping, household backup power and some worksite uses.
Most people are trying to buy a vehicle which will both suit their daily needs and their occasional needs. For many use cases a good plug-in hybrid does that.
All the vehicles I own right now are Ford. And I’ve always been a Ford guy having said that Dodge knocked this one out of the park.
I think that Ram is doing the right thing for the start of the electric age for pick ups. I'm getting one in 2025.
It amazes me how little people really lookat this product, and the information provided. 690 mile range us empty. And this truck can tow 14k miles, haul 2600lbs. Its 3/4 ton territory. That 92kwh battery will go about an hour on the freeway till it needs the engine. The extended range F150 will do about 150 miles . Thats 2 hours, then you need to stop for 45 minutes to charge. This truck will do 325 miles towing (with full charge), assuming half range when towing. Thats 4+hours between stops, and then you can refill your tank, recharge the battery if theres a charger, in the time to stretch and have a quick meal.
To be able to keep enough power to move at 65-70mph on flat ground hauling 10k lb, the generator may need to output 100-150hp constantly, so thats 75-110kw. Using a small 4 cylinder may barely do it, and then you would be over-stressing the engine. Best to run a larger engine at a little more relaxed state, even if you lise some efficiency. Plus you gotta think of the noise of that generator running at a higher rpm than usual, i think id like to have it run more slowly.
🙋♂️THX SANDY,AND MUNRO , FOR SHARING 💚💚💚
Range concerns is still a concern for me with mountain passes and winter conditions for me to go visit remote family with limited charging options in Eastern Washington for me.
@mbcracken
How exactly does the 600 plus range concern you??
Since you can run off 100% gas, range anxiety shouldn't be an issue.
Exactly what most people are commenting. This truck is built for people that tow.