Leisure Travel Van Alternatives at Tampa RV Show. Wait or get these now?
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- Опубліковано 4 лют 2023
- Are you in the market for a new Leisure Travel Van, but looking for some options because of the wait times? Look no further! In this video, we showcase three of the best alternatives - the Airstream Atlas, the Winnebago Ekko, and the Winnebago View. Each of these B+ / Class C RVs offer a unique take on the traditional RV experience, with stylish design, innovative features, and top-notch comfort. Whether you're a solo adventurer or traveling with a family, these vans are sure to meet all your needs. So sit back, relax, and join us as we explore these amazing alternatives to Leisure Travel Vans!
Correction I stated that the EKKO does not have ducted air and in fact does have ducted air conditioning.
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Hey Brandon, glad you reviewed the Winnebago View 24D. We just sold our LTV twin bed and picked up the same floor plan you walked through. True the quality of materials and build is slightly less than LTV. However, no wait and 30% off MSRP, and a lot more room inside. Should get the job done.
My philosophy is get what you can and get going for sure!
Winnebago owner here. Noted you listed "Lack of LTV Community" as a con on the View/Navion. That's true, but are you aware there is a huge and very organized Winnebago View/Navion community that has lots of meetups and rallies all over the country every year? At least a hundred coaches show up every summer at Winnebago's Grand National Rally in Forest City Iowa. And then there is the "Winnebago Small Coach" group that includes W Class Bs and Cs in even more meetups. Winnebago View/Navion owners have a very active and enthusiastic community as well.
That’s great. Totally basing on my experience of the LTV community. I have an Airstream as well and the community is great but not as vibrant as the LTV community. It might be that there are so few LTVs compared to Winne and Airstream.
We are just starting our search for an RV. I loved the Leisure van from the first video I saw. We are enjoying gathering information and you are providing great info. Thank you
Glad it's helpful!
Glad to see this channel is moving towards other RVs since LTV lead times are so distant.
Very distant
We looked at the Winnebago view with the Murphy bed today and came away very impressed. So much more room than a van!
Yes, the slide makes it so much roomier
The Murphy bed installation looks amateurish. The bed doesn't completely cover the side windows in the slideout when it's up. Actually the bed covering the windows is another problem entirely, the interior needs more light, but this is true of all the full wall Murphy bed installations in these type Class C RVs. The Winnebago RVs are more available than the LTV RVs though, take your pick.
After researching RV shows, online and magazines for 12+ years, I will continue on my wait ( 20 months now ) for the LTV Wonder.
Won’t be disappointed!
Thanks for the break down of the other units you mentioned in your video. We currently have the 2019 Coachmen CrossFit and Coachmen has an entry that's very similar to the EKKO by Winnebago. I also agree that the time to order a new ltv vs buying a gently used or a new unit that has been released for dealers to sell are the best two alternatives. Just have to make sure the time is right and you can afford to be patient.
Heard great things about Coachman
@@Pagosa Coachman Ekko-fighter is definitely not a 4 season beast like Ekko. Lower price=you get what you pay for.
Thank you for the video. I also think the Tiffin Wayfarer LW is comparable.
They are, however Tiffin is going through a bit of a storm after being bought by Thor. I would stay away at this time until it all shakes out.
Brandon - good video. the View/Navion sleeps more people. This is a big deal for families like ours. We travel with 3 to 4 in our View and it’s perfect. LTV are sleeker without the bunk, but are a no go for us for capacity. Also, you speak of the step up of the view, that’s also true, but the benefit is the basement storage that is awesome and includes pass through storage for fishing poles. Also, the Winnebago View community is enormous and folks often take 20-25 percent off MSRP when purchasing new.
Absolutely, I always put extra passengers as a con, lol. But for families the upper bunk is fantastic I'm sure.
Navion/View definitely more family friendly, but with an OCCC of around 1100lbs, half of it is used up with 4 people, add water and propane and not much left for your stuff. My LTV Unity has an OCCC of 1800lbs.
Perfect timing on this vid as LTV has again raised the 2023 price . Been in queue since 2021. Walking away still in search of a good van and company.
In que? Like you put a deposit down?
@@genric_sloth971 yep 10k down .. Early Jan 21. Price is now 40k higher and no guarantee it’s the “final” . Was scheduled for production in 2 weeks.
Used LTVs are popping up all over. Def think that’s the way to go
Good video. On the Airstream you overlooked two passenger side exterior storage bays. Storage isn’t as bad as you made it sound. Plus all outside storage except one locks with the vans electronic door lock. No keys, no latches to deal with every time you want in a storage bay.
Good to know!
Check out the Renegade Vienna and Villagio models - awesome! After dreaming of an LTV for years, we took a look at these models and were blown away! Ended up getting a 2018 Renegade Vienna Cornerbed unit, 25 ft on MB Sprinter Chassis- so happy with our choice as quality is DEFINITELY in their models - used or new. Cost savings were great, and we prefer the interior decor - top notch. Still love LTV's, but we wanted to RV now and the price point savings was fantastic!
I was looking at a Renegade Super C prior to our LTV purchase, so agree on Renegade. Will try and find one to film.
I agree why wait the ridiculously long time for a Leisure Travel Van (LTV) when you can and should get something now to enjoy now! A couple of other Class C Sprinter based motorhomes I think are worth looking at are The Regency Ultra Brougham, which is virtually a LTV clone but with Induction cooktop, large 2 way electric compressor refrigerator, and a few more features than LTV. Or the Renegade Vienna, love their white marbled cabinets, theater recliner seating, large rear bathroom, Induction cooktop, 2 way electric large compressor refrigerator and many more nice features as compared to a LTV. It is sad to see LTV falling so far behind in meeting their orders and maybe as a result isn't up to date with features that other brands offer like large Lithium battery banks (Winnebago offers 630ah of Lithionics Batteries), 3000w inverters (which gives you air conditioner operation from Lithium batteries), large 2 way electric refrigerators that perform well and are very energy efficient even off batteries, Induction cooktop, Truma water heater and furnace in one, quieter and more energy efficient Truma Aventa air conditioner, and on and on with state of the art features. The only big changes LTV has made in the last 9 years is colors of Cabinetry, Ultra leather, or exterior paint schemes. I bought my 2014 LTV Unity new and over the years I kept expecting better upgrades that would lead me to want a new LTV but sadly that never happened and I have moved ahead and done all my own upgrades so my 2014 rivals the features of any of new motorhome today. Consequently I'm keeping what I have because now I am able to enjoy it so much more. But this does lead me to my final point and that is why not buy a used LTV? Do what I have done and upgrade a used one to the dream machine you want. LTV still builds their little motorhomes exceptionally well so any year, model, and floor plan will make a great foundation for you to make one your own. Used LTVs are available now and certainly at much lower prices than waiting years on a new order that will experience a number of price increases while you wait the 3-4 years for delivery. Bottomline don't wait, find something now, because there are lots of used LTVs available or other new models of other brands available so go look again!
and Regency is made right in Brandon's DFW metroplex area (Ft. Worth to be exact).
☝️
Regency also now offers Transit AWD chassis.
We looked at both of these while waiting for an LTV. So happy we waited. But if you can afford to buy one while waiting I think I would still buy an older LTV. Just for re sale value.
Absolutely
I own a Winnebago Ekko and you mentioned that it isn't comfortable. The two seats up near the dinette might not look comfortable but with a small foot rest (with storage) to stretch your legs it's quite comfy.Also the proprietary twin bed Winnebago mattress is extremely comfortable . The Ford Transit-350 chassis is smooth, powerful and comfortable. The OCC is 1625 lbs. The Lithionics battery with 455 watts of solar and a Balmar alternator power is never a concern Love my Ekko. If you are curious about what one is really like reach out to me. Love your videos. Lee in Socal
That's great to know! The Ekko is an amazing RV
Your videos are always so helpful, thank you! My wish is to get a LTV but not sure I can wait ,and if I can’t find a good used one, what are your thoughts on the Winnebago view vs the Airstream Atlas? Is the quality good enough in the View or would you fork out the money for the Atlas? Also have to consider resale value. Thanks again!
Thanks for the encouraging words! First I would look for a used LTV for sure, then I would consider the View over Atlas. While the Atlas is pretty much better in every regard than the view, the price point is massive and depreciation will be greater in my opinion, due to that price point. Even if you order an LTV, then find a used or new View, then trade in on the LTV in a few years when it's ready.
Hi Brandon! Another great video ❤. What do you think about the Tiffin Wayfarer?
I’d be leery of Tiffin right now. They were recently bought by Thor and just closed down their fifth wheel division. I know a former exec at Tiffin and he didn’t have a great outlook on the future of the company in terms of how they were run in the past.
@@Pagosa even before the takeover, Tiffin had flaws that were famously exposed pre-pandemic by Neil Balthasar from Ultramobility. After he inspected one, I was turned off forever.
Thanks for the video. We really like the LTV Wonder FTB. I’m tall and large and we want our dogs to be able to see out. We recently had our Lance in for slide out repair at the LTV dealer in Atlanta. They said the wait on LTV orders is pushing 3 years. 😕
It's a long wait, but worth it!
The wait is under a year now. The pandemic log jam has broken free.
Another note on the View 24D. Don’t get me wrong, I want the LTV FX badly. At the Tampa show, it was a 2+ year wait with a deposit and pay full MSRP at whatever that might be a couple years from now. Ugh! Now that supply on that 24D has caught up, you can get one today at $160K cash with light negotiation. Last year that unit cost as much as an LTV, which you pointed out in your comparison video last year. Starts to look attractive.
Yes. LTV is much like Harley Davidson with brand loyalty and people would wait and pay a premium instead of buy a Honda today at half the price
Don't pay over $145k, the show price in Michigan last week as $148 on one. If things don't pick up and you are determined maybe the 130s.
I like the view pretty good. It has a little bit more room I think.
very roomy
You started correct about the long wait, suggesting used. Of course if you bought new now, it would be 3 y/o and time to upgrade??? Let's put it in perspective. I am 72 y/o...can I afford to sit around giving LTV 3 years of my life? NO! Airstream and identical LTV MB model are non-starters - as with all other manufacturers with that floorplan. There is a benefit to two living areas like the RL or your FX and the D model View you walked in vs the either/or single living area of the MB. Spouse turn in early, where do I sit - outside with the mosquitos, no thanks. On the Transit chassis, kudos to LTV for using the 176" wheelbase in the Wonder (vs Sprinter 170", for reference). Essentially all other manufacturers as stuck using the 158", probably a carryover from prior generation and manufacturers are loathe to change the production line. Even the Ekko at introduction had a second floorplan based on the 176" WB on the website, but it disappeared and never developed. Wish you had walked through the Tiffin Wayfarer vs the View as that is what it comes down to for me - then in 3 yrs sell for LTV delivery or walk away for someone else to have. Suspect materials are better in the Tiffin vs View, and OCCC is a challenge but since Tiffen re-worked everything in 2020 focusing on weight, whey are now essentially even IF EQUIPTED THE SAME as the View has to be optioned up - full body paint, levelers, diesel generatiors and even then wouldn't have a porcelain toliet, and those two lead all other manufacturers on weight. REV Group, Regency and other make luxurious RV but make the same mistake Tiffin initially made, maintaining a Class A mindset on furnishing. Heavy wood cabinets, full panel solid doors, and overstuffed furniture, including driver and passenger seats just doesn't cut it in a weight limiting Class C.
I'm a bit wary of Tiffin right now, as they were just bought by Thor and already closed their fifth wheel line. A former Tiffin exec I know said it's very likely the Tiffin name will be name only and the way that Bob Tiffin ran things will go away.
You should check out the Regency Ultra Brougham out of Ft Worth someday.
I've seen a few of them before. I'll try and do a video on them someday
I like the LTV, looked at a used 2020 on the ford transit with 2.5l diesel engine this week. Looks like the LTV is not the right choice for me though; dealership indicated only 2000 lb tow capacity. I need no less than 3500, but would like 5000. So I'll be looking at alternatives. I don't understand why people say LTVs aren't available. I've seen both used and new LTVs available. I don't want anything on the Mercedes chassis, as I'll be living full-time and traveling around the country. Must have the ability for repairs in any location, so Ford, Chevy, and Dodge/Ram are the preferred chassis at this juncture.
That towing limit is a 2020 and older Ford limitation, not LTV. 2021 Ford Transit gets the higher towing capability. Also, few Ford dealer will work on RVs, so that’s not a benefit. MB owns Freight liner who has service centers across the US, that will work on Sprinters, so Sprinters may actually have the advantage in that regard.
Have you heard of Coach House rvs? Family owned business out of florida that has been making Bs And B+’s (really C’s on cutaway chasis). Their strength seems to be a one piece shell and gas powered chasis. Would love to learn your thoughts when you have time.
Yes, my dentist has one and loves it. The only thing I don’t like is it’s on Ford f450 van and still many years back in design and tech for the chassis.
Thank you….the tech is not leading edge, but quality seems promising. Don’t know wait time but might be a competitor worth considering too.
They do have other lines with the Sprinter and the Transit. I personally got sick of waiting for an LTV and re-evaluated my situation and being able to go off on sketchy forest roads and questionable boondocking locations. So dumped the LTV idea and went with a 2350 le for its awesome outside storage. I actually like that it is on the E-350 chassis because Quigley in PA is going to convert it to 4wd with F-Series drive line parts. The 7.3L though a throwback is a monster engine with a diesel like torque curve. Funny how it worked out in the end.
Their wait is just as long as LTV. Even better craftsmanship and very proud of their reliability. They are slow in adopting new tech. Like Lexus, they will let others be the beta testers.
I decided not to wait, and go with sprinter chassis 170 4wd 4x4 to be built custom on/off road, dooley ( I hope I said that correctly). I did not have the desire to wait 2yrs on the leisure, even though I love them, I wanted to get started now, "on the road".
Nice! Get going now for sure
On the View 24D you note OCCC as a con. Did you check the door on that unit? I might be wrong, but I was there at the show and was surprised at the OCCC on that unit. They have upped that number from previous model years. I want to say it was 1,300+ lbs, up from 800+ a few years ago. I looked at the FX and I think it was about 1,400 lbs?
I didn’t, but now regret not doing that. It was about 800 last year. My FX with all the heavy stuff like Diesel gen and levelers is 1,502.
Our new Navion has OCCC of 948 lbs per sticker.
950lb OCCC for our loaded 2022 View 24D with all options.
@@georger7487 Problem is, 4 people and full water and propane doesn’t leave much capacity for anything else.
What you think about the Regency Brougham, made in the USA?
They are much less expensive and anything that you can get now and get going seems like a good thing
Thanks for this. The OCCC on the View is so disappointing. Do you think 1000lbs is workable? The View is also behind the times on lithium…
1000 pounds is doable if you don’t need to carry a bunch of stuff. Basic cargo and a few camping chairs and such and you should be fine
Would love a review on Grech. And the comparison to LTV
Love the Grech. However, they are a Class B, so more like an Airstream Interstate. The LTVs are a Class C and much more room
@Pagosa yes understood. Wet bath and outside storage is my issue with B's.
Have close LTV dealer. Told me now 3 yr wait on new order. No thanks.
Do have question. With All ion no generator, how do you recharge batteries without driving?
Heard both run engine and not to for long bad on engine?
Thanks watch when bell dings, ha ha ha
@@vikkibair1546 The Sprinter is not able to idle for more than 5 minutes, however the Transit gas chassis can have an additional alternator and your van engine becomes your generator. Without a gen on a sprinter, you have to rely on solar or shore power if you did not want to drive. Thanks for watching.😀
@Pagosa wow Thank You.
You hear so much BS and I need to know facts. Can make huge decision in choice.
Currently diesel generator, lithium, 2 solar panels. Any suggestions. With dog would like air for restaurant stop and not worry running generator?
Again hats off to you. Your the Best!
@@vikkibair1546 You just need a 3000W inverter with minimum 300ah of lithium to power your air conditioner for several hours. If you haven't checked out our lithium guide and how we did ours, check it out at pagosasupply.co/lithium
Again Ltv is behind the times the View has optional 640ah lithionics .
I never advise to get lithium and in particular Lithionics from the factory is 2X retail and very easy DIY upgrade. So I hope they never offer it from factory as it’s a terrible way to overspend for the consumer.
@Pagosa it's true that the value isn't there, but some customers would rather have lithionics installed by ltv than have to search for a third-party installer
If you were looking at a used FX. What year would you start looking at in Leisure van?
2020, they are built on the redesigned MB Sprinter chassis
Enjoy your videos great info! What do you think of Tiffins Rv model Wayfarer? My wife's second choice.
What are the thoughts on the wayfarer
I would be wary of Tiffin right now. I know a former exec with the company and he said the transition from the Tiffin family to Thor is not the same Tiffin
I ordered the LTV, then cancelled and purchased the 2022 Atlas. I did not pay $100,000 more. Not even close. I doubt most do. Because of a trade in, sales tax savings and dealer discount, way less than half that. Exterior and interior fit and finish on each is very different(13 coats clear coat and paint vs. 5) , also construction and warranty. Seamless fiberglass exterior, all electric shades and skylight, fully corniced shades with no exposed edges, Airstream aluminum ceiling and door panels, cabinetry with aluminum corners underside and framing, stitched pattern cushions, Firefly coach control system, VB rear air suspension, every Mercedes option available on the Sprinter chassis i.e. side mirror cameras, and full time rear view camera. Felt lining in all interior and exterior compartments, electronic compartment locks and for all doors. Retractable hidden steps. Electric waste valves and macerator waste discharge, larger all electric (dc) fridge-you get the point. Finally, the shower does not have a skylight. With shower lights not dimmed, you could do surgery in the Atlas shower it is so bright. Even with tankless hot water, I don't think I would take extended showers gazing out of the skylight. I would not have paid $100K more for the Atlas, however, for well under $50K, the extra features, fit and finish were well worth it to me. Most LTV dealers do not negotiate price AND they pass any on price increases from order date to delivery date, which as you point out can be up to 2 years or more. Got my Atlas in 6 months for negotiated price. At the end of the day it is an Airstream.
That's great. Atlas def has some upgraded components. The shower skylight is more for tall people, as it adds about 4 inches of height as well as letting in natural light.
What is the OCCC on your Atlas?
Airstream for me then 24d or wait 5 years to get LTV my question why does it take so long i mean really
LTV is a very small company comparatively and chassis shortages, supply chain issues affect them more as their buying power is shadowed by Airstream and Winne
Are you in Pagosa Springs? What LeisureTravel Van dealer do you use?
Our main address is Dallas, and Pagosa and Breckenridge are our Colorado get aways. I use Vogt / Leisure Center in Ft Worth
The Navion/View twins offer much better cold weather capability thsn LTV. The water lines are internal and dual pane windows are available. Not as good as Ekko, but more comfortable.
Yes, LTV are not good for cold
Was at the Ottawa rv show this past weekend in Canada. Was looking forward to seeing the leisure unity. Boy very disappointed. Doesn’t hold a candle to the Airstream. Disappointed fit and finish. No wow factor. Was hoping to buy Canadian next time around looks like that wont be happening. Too bad.
Think you should look again, as not a lot separates them. I have an Airstream Globetrotter as well as a Unity and can say the LTV is built better overall.
Airstream sure would be nice, but when you think in terms of percentage: to pay 50% more just for the name… wow
Some features are nice, but dang, it’s expensive
Better to wait IMHO, appears to be no comparison in terms of innovation and quality.
True in some regards for sure
LTV owners will get depreciation REKT as soon as supply chain catch up
I don't think so as it's such a small, niche brand with high demand that it will be one of your better RVs when it comes to depreciation. As of now, 2 -3 year old used sell for more than their original price, which I don't see changing for 3 or 4 years.
Contact me for 2022 LTV UMB with all the bells and whistle’s including very low mileage- available today.
Did anyone contact you? You should put this on LTVs for sale on Facebook.
@@Pagosa no one has contacted me. It has been on the LTV for sale site but now there are several other entries which pushed mine all the way to the bottom of the list.
It's a bummer how hard getting outdoors has gotten. Waits for RVs getting longer, booking for campsite becoming rarer. Just sucks.
It’s getting better I think
A friend has a 2016 Winnebago ERA on Sprinter chassis. He recently gutted the whole thing because he was so disappointed with the build quality. Cabinet frames with one staple per corner, no screws. Cab overhead shelf kept falling on his head while driving. Poorly insulated. Rather shocking at its price point.
it's very disappointing to see what RV makers do to cut costs.
Cancelled orders obviate the wait
Great use of the word obviate!
Ekko AC is ducted
Ah, see that now. Will make a show note in description
The prices are outrageous. You can get a C class for way less.
These are Class C
It's like shopping for kitchen cabinets at The Home Depot...a bunch of junk!
Lol
If they built a plant in Ontario , population 15 million people, they could just produce for that market, instead of pissing people off with their small production numbers, better still, just buy another brand!
it's not the plant that is causing delays, it's chassis and parts shortages, so an Ontario plant wouldn't help. I suggest buying a used LTV now if you are sold on the brand.
@@Pagosa Production issues is not the consumers problem, my beef is why keep advertising something you can't supply, even when production is normal, there was never any inventory in Ontario, Manitoba plant is right next door
@@richardbanks6025 They are supplying new units everyday with people in the order banks daily. While it takes a while to get a new LTV, you can order one today, and to stay in business, LTV has to continue selling them, even if they are a few years out before you take delivery. Not taking up for them, but totally understand they still need to operate a business.
No way I’m buying a Thor product. Winnebago has some great floor plans, but quality is garbage
Airstreams are OK, Thor is just the holding company that owns the brand. I have a 2022 Airstream Globetrotter as well as my LTV and the quality and service is amazing.
I will never buy a murphy bed.
Lots of options
you dudnt even open or look at the outside storage on the atlas!! why? maybe you didn't do your research or figure out where it was because it blends in with the coach
I own an Airstream Globetrotter and have gone through the Atlas at DFW Airstream a few times. Good RV for sure. The outside storage is very minimal compared to an LTV.