45von is correct. The secondary coil, inside the coil on battery ignition systems, is what actually makes the spark. It can only do so when the points are open. When the points are closed, both the primary coil inside the coil and the condenser (which is really a battery) receive current. When the points open, the rapid loss of this charge to the primary coil windings induces a large voltage in the secondary coil winding, That is the source of the spark that ignites fuel. The condenser sends its charge along to the primary windings as well. Happily, the condenser also prevents the arc that would otherwise happen when the points close again so they don't burn-up rapidly.
You're correct on both counts. It would replace a bad magneto if a suitable stock replacement isn't available and is used on engines like the Kohler shown that don't have a magneto ignition system. Hope all is well my Friend! Cheers!
The coil creates spark when the points OPEN, not close. When the circuit is closed, the coil creates a strong magnetic field. When the points open, the field collapses, with electrons going into the secondary winding and discharging across the spark plug gap.
Thanks Zip ; With this video I was able wire my 16 HP Briggs and get it running . This is just one of your VERY helpful videos that I will rely on and enjoy . Hey, I am even looking at the grip 6 belts. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Don't forget to use my 20% discount code!!!! It's ZIPPO20. So far, 52 people have taken advantage of the discount. Be #53!! They're Awesome buckles and belts for sure. And of course, I'm very glad this video helped you get your problematic Briggs back up and running. Cheers from the Zippo Nation! Zip~
+B grizz Thanks for the tip Grizz. My videos are automatically grouped by content with other like videos in playlists through a program, but I can create separate playlists that are only of my videos. The only thing standing in my way of doing that right now is it's my busy season, but I will see about helping out with some playlists when time allows. Thanks again! Zip~ Glad the video helped!
Zippo, I have a simplicity 3414 with a B&S engine, the magneto is bad , I'm unable to find a replacement, I'm Ethier going to have to go electronic ignition or Go to the battery coil ignition like a Kohler, if I go battery coil ignition how would my ignition switch work, because right now that wire is a ground to kill the engine, and it would have to be a hot that would go dead to kill the engine then. Or Would I just be better off going electronic and then I would not have to rewire the hole tractor?
Great Video, You have the best Video to explain the right way to connect the Coil to the points and condenser. One thing in your statement you first stated Capacitor for the Condenser then changed the wording to Condenser. You are Right the first time most people doesn't know the Condenser is a Small Capacitor. It build a electrical Charge and make the spark on the points hotter. Great Video Plus AAAAA++++++.
Thanks much for the props Waymon! I tend to use the words most are familiar with and yep...it's a small capacitor that the world market dubbed the "Condenser". The same holds true for motor oil. They CALL it Detergent Oil, but there is no actual Detergent in it. It has a variety of chemicals designed to hold the contaminants in suspension so they'll pass through a filtering media like oil filter or cartridge. When talking small engines without an oil filter, you don't want to use Detergent oils because the contaminants are not being captured by a filter and are instead, being carried throughout the crank case where they can do harm to bearings, bushings, journals etc. Cheers! Zip~
Very true and great advice! Thanks for your input. I hope others read comments to learn of this addition if using an automotive coil. Again, thanks much!! Cheers!
thanks so much zippo. I may use a starter generator later on in the future but for now i have just left it alone. cause im going to use it for a snowplow in the winter i will just bring the battery in the house until i have to use it. thank you zippo
Providing you are using a small engine Coil, the old Condenser will be fine. If using an Automotive Coil, you will need an in line resistor or you will burn up the automotive coils quickly. Hope this helps! Cheers!!
I have a panzer with a Kohler motor. It ran all summer, and two days ago no go. If I hold the spark plug wire, not even a tickle. I put new points, 18 gap, new coil and condenser, no go, I'm stuck HELP. I tested the coil and it shocked the crap out of me so I guess that is good.
Good video. On a side note make sure that you check whether your vehicle is negative ground or positive ground, recently bought an old British car from 1960 and it's a positive ground but there are no markings anywhere to say that.
It's always a good practice to note where the positive cable goes on a new to you vehicle. Some earlier Lincolns are also positive ground. Good info to pass along. Thanks Exogator! Zip~
ZippoVarga like I said mine had no description of what the cables are, both have universal strap terminals on them, only reason I noticed was after poking around with the dizzy cap off gapping the contacts, then hand cranking the motor to check(it's that old that it has a hand crank still) and when putting it back in I noticed the coil was wired with positive to the cap and negative to the battery.
Hi Steven. Kohlers equipped with an alternator/stator must also have a regulator/rectifier in order to be able to run without a battery. Don't connect the alternator/stator directly to the coil. Another option is, if you have room, add a pulley flywheel cover and a starter generator with a regulator like is shown on my Kohler. I hope this helps!
No. The negative post on a coil isn't for negative or ground, the + is for the battery input and the - goes to the points. The grounding happens on the case of the unit when it's mounted. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga thank you I figured it out I didn't have ohms on the coils I was using, the couple coils I used only had .8 ohms and 1.7ohms and I found that 2.8-3 ohms works the best for my application thank you
Just got a wheelhorse with a k series Kohler 12 hp and no spark. Condenser thing is on plus side with another wire going to switch. Update. I reversed wires and tractor fired right up.
Just what I needed because I haven't worked on an old engine like this one in a long time. I have a rectangular-shaped box between the postive post on the coil and my battery. What is it?
Zippo if if my coil isn't connected right with the battery with grounded like you said and what would that cause popping in the engine like if I could hear like a popping sound coming out of the exhaust down in the bottom of the engine and it's a 1950 Ford car
The intermittent popping you speak of is usually points or ignition related at the distributor. It can be a dirty spark plug, bad plug wire that is arcing somewhere or the condenser could be going bad which would cause the points to visibly spark and cause the popping you describe. If your engine is still using the original points operated distributor then those are the things to check. If you've got an aftermarket electronic spark ignition then with the engine running, listen closely for a sharp click under the hood. This would be the faulty plug wire or other component arcing to ground intermittently. The easiest way to locate these types of faults is to start the engine and in as dark a place as you can find, just do a visual under the hood. You're looking for a strobing blue or yellow flash. When you find that, that is your problem. If nothing is seen or heard, typically doing a full tuneup will help or rid you of the ignition misfire. Zip~
In the commentary from 0.55 to 1.15 min the description is wrong , In the external battery powered coil current is flowing through the coil when the points are Closed creating a magnetic field from the primary winding in the coil that surrounds the secondary , ( high tension ) winding , as the engine rotates to the correct position to fire , the points then Open.!! The current flowing in the primary ceases and the magnetic field collapses , that is where the condenser comes into play , it reduces the arc when the points break and ensures a faster collapse of the primary field The collapsing field induces a high voltage in the Secondary coil which is Conducted by the High Tension lead to the spark plug
So the Positive side of the coil goes directly to the battery or to the ignition post on the key switch?.... I'm working on an old Ford/Jacobson with a K341 and the wiring harness is a mess and the original ignition switch was faulty when I purchased the tractor. I had to running last year for the summer mower season by jumping the solenoid but this year I wanted to install an ignition switch and build a new wiring harness. The original ignition switch had 5 terminals and the new one has 4 terminals/posts. Start, ignition battery and accessories. I was thinking the positive side of the coil should go to the Ignition post on the switch?....Am I wrong?.
Both sides of the coil are actually "hot" when the coil fires. The "-" negative symbol is simply the wire going from the coil to the points. So, with the key switch on, the coil will be hot going to it and coming from the negative side when the points close. The instant the points release, the stored energy in the condenser it released and the spark plug fires. Zip~
ok hears a question i have just acquired a quod ., scooter engine . & it got a feu problems with the waring infant it cut to bit's & i think it time to rethink the system & revert to fitng points . here's a quick thought given it as a place where the trigger coil fits as a pace of rased steel would this lift the points sufficient to open the points & fier the coil ? it 0ne mill thik prap's tow. i supo's a spot of weld may lift the pins more . but i would prefer not to wel on the fly wheel. the stream reman as the ratified garger for the battery . Praps you could answer this question .
What would cause my 1990 dodge d250 with the 318 to lose spark right after I fire it up it will idle for a few seconds than shut off and I'll have fuel but no spark
Check for a proper ground to the coil and ignition switch. Sometimes terminals get corroded and need cleaned. So go over all of the ignition system wires one at a time and clean them then add a dab of dielectric grease to help prevent future failures. With the key switch, there is a pigtail (plug) at the base of the steering column that the key switch wiring goes through. Disconnect and reconnect the plugs to help clean them, but don't use dielectric grease on these because it can breach connections and cause more problems than it solves. Good Luck! Zip~
I did this to a friends b110 that had a bad coil / mag. Works great. So when my b10 started symptoms of losing spark when got, I bought a coil and set it up the same way. I cannot get it to spark. Points are new. I have swapped coil and condenser with ones of a running tractor so I know they're not bad. Yes I have 12 volts to the coil when the switch is on.
My only guess is that either the gap isn't quite right on the points or the cam bump for closing the points is worn to the point where it is no longer effective. If the original coil is still in place, try installing a Nova II points eliminator in place of the points. This will not work with the battery ignition coil though. Those are my thoughts. Zip~
Thanks zip. I did try adjusting the points both ways. Once in a while I would get a brief spark. I think ultimately I'm going to pull the engine and install a new Mag / coil then also add a nova 2 and it should be reliable for a long time.
if the condensor is bad can it be replaced by any old garden tractor condensor or does it need to be specific to that model engine?thanks for your time.
Hi. Just wondering what is the make of the tractor in the background with the white bonnet, under the green cab, working on something very similar to it at the moment for a friend and he had no idea what make or model it is. Thanks
Very good explanation! Can you pls explain the two wire type comdensor wiring? I would really appreciate.(it seems the two wire type has both a positive and earth wire...)
ME TO I WEAR GLASSES BUT THEY DONT WORK TO WELL...IM TO OLD TO GET THEM FIXED NOW...MY EYES THAT IS...LMCAO...ANYWAY I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS ONE UP...I HAD A HARD TIME FINDING THE OLD TYPE OF COIL HOOK UPS NOW A DAYS ALL THE CARS HAS THOSE STUPID BLOCK COILS OR COILS FOR EACH PLUG WIRE...WHICH COST MORE GO FIGURE..PLUS THEY WEAR OUT FASTER...OLD COILS LAST ALMOST A LIFE TIME OF THE CAR...LMCAO...ANYWAY THANKS...I NEED THIS BEEN LONG TIME SINCE I DONE IT AND MY OLD BRAIN FORGOT HOW TO BUT I CAN REBUILD A 4 BARREL CARB AND A WHOLE OLD STYLE ENGINE...MY LAST REBUILD MOTOR WAS A 472....LATER THEY CAME OUT WITH A 500...IT WAS A GOOD BUILD AND FIRED UP THE FIRST TIME IT TURNED OVER ....IT WAS A BIG CAR AND A BIG ENGINE AND IT WOULD HAUL THE TRASH OUT....LOL...THANKS AGAIN....
BUTCH, I'M GLAD THE VIDEO HELPED JUMP START THE OLD MEMORY BANKS. I CAN ONLY SPECULATE THAT YOU ARE A CADILLAC MAN. THE 500, SO FAR AS MY MEMORY RECOLLECTS, WAS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE CADILLAC LINE UP IN THE 1970'S. ALL THREE OF ME VEHICLES ARE VINTAGE (24, 26 AND 38 YEARS OLD) AND ARE ALL SINGLE COIL POWERED. TWO ARE FUEL INJECTED HOWEVER. BEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR REPAIR!! ZIP~
No, it doesn't have to ground to the engine, but the Condenser will need grounded. The coil is positive battery only. The band is just to secure it with any means necessary. Zip~
Hey zippo , do you have a video on how to bench test an external coil. I have a Kohler K341 with no spark & is driving me nuts. I believe I’ve checked everything except the coil itself
This question is on a older post. Since I just found this information and applied it today. It worked great. I wired my positive to my ignition and my old Wheel Horse is up and running again. However I need information about the in line resistor you spoke to 574carter about. I am using a automobile coil... I think. Was in my shed and figure that's where it came from. I have the condenser installed as you stated and used a automobile condenser but do I need some kind of in line resistor? If so will you explain a bit further for me?
Just keep check for things to get hot, like the condenser and coil. If they get pretty warm to the touch, you'll need to chance the condenser and/or add a resistor. The exact science isn't known by me, but we have a gentleman in the comments named maverick351 that understands this part of the process better than I do. I would contact him if possible and if you find your coil is over heating.
I bought a 74 Dodge with a 318 with a "crank but no spark" scenario. I have been replacing everything in the ignition system, and still have no spark. Today I realized that the last owner had run the external capacitor/condensor (whats the difference?) from the Coil's "+" terminal and then to a ground bolt. I removed the external capacitor/condensor and installed a new coil, and thought that would solve the problem. But still no spark. Would the mistake of having the capacitor run to the Coil "+" terminal have been the reason for no spark?
The key switch on your particular machine is specific to your machine. I have no way of answering this, not knowing what application your key switch is installed on. Zip~
Question… I have ‘69 Lincoln mark III with A 460 engine. It has a capacitor/condenser on the outside of the coil just like the one in your video. There is also a condenser in the distributor with the points. Should there be 2?
I HAD AN IDEA OF MY QWN TO DO THIS , BUT WASN'T SURE HOW TO DO IT. THANKS A LOT FOR THE INFO. THE PRICE OF AN O.E. COIL IS OVER 100.00 AND I HAVE A MULCHER THAT NEEDS A COIL, BUT NOT ONE FOR THAT PRICE
Excellent video. I have a NOVA electronic ignition in lieu of points and condenser on my AC B-110. I would like to add a coil as you have shown because I have a weak spark and engine won't fire. Will this external coil still work with the NOVA module ?
No it will not. You will have to return to a points fired ignition in order to achieve using a battery ignition. If you have a weak spark, change your spark plug to a hotter burning plug. I doubt it's the coil causing the issue. It's possible the flywheel and coil need cleaned up a little and re-gapped. Cheers! Zip~
I replaced NOVA with points and condenser and got back the spark, ;). I guess NOVA's do wear out. I'll remember about your engine pulling video. thanks.
What engine was this? I have a very similar, if not the exact same one. No ignition to spark. My question is how long will the battery last before needing to recharge??
It's a Kohler K series 12hp. If your engine doesn't have an internal or external generator, it's all dependent on the quality and type of battery. A deep cycle would be your best bet so that you can fully deplete the battery and recharge it many times. I can't even begin to offer an answer to your question of how long the engine will run though. Zip~
depends on the batter i once drove a lorry all the way to maffick & back on a faulty alternator it was only when the lights whear on it gave me a prolom.
Hi zippo,mike here from France,great video,I'm going to use it On my 10 hp honda outboard,it's 4stroke 2 cylinder,got a new coil coming Not sure if the condenser is ok,so I think it's a good idea to get one, Honda say 0.24 microfarads is that number critical. Thanks mike
Try the condenser with the new coil. It's either good or bad. There's no in between with them. The microfarads sounds like the ohm equivalence we use to measure resistance here in the US, so if you do need to replace the condenser, I would stick with the factory recommended condenser. Thanks for stopping in and I wish you the best in the repair!! Cheers! Zip~
maverick351 Thank you for clearing that up for me. I'm not clear at all on resistance and capacitance and their differences, so this is very helpful for those who don't know, like my self. With this explanation, one holds a charge and the other resists....am I understanding correctly now? Thanks again!
I have a wiring mess on a K321 . The previous owner had the condenser and the battery power on the same terminal on the coil. Had a real weak spark. And for some reason the starter is only getting 5 V even though I have 12 at the starting solenoid
Isolate the engine from the implement or mower you are working on (bypass all the piece of equipment's wiring from the engine. Then wire just the engine with a battery. Ground the block with the negative. Run a jump wire to the Coil (+ from the battery +) then the "-" negative goes from the coil to the points with the Condenser attached to the "-". Then, run a heavy cable (wire) to the starter lug bolt. When you're ready to check spark and the starters performance, touch the heavy cable from the starter to the + terminal of the battery. At this point you should have good spark (pending the condition of the points) and the starter should get the full benefit of the battery. Your issues are all too common unfortunately. It's best to go from the engine to the rest of the wiring harness. Find a Wiring Diagram on line to help guide you. Zip~
I have an lj80 and the condenser is on the distributor, is the ignition the same as the points box? do i connect the negative to the condenser even though it is on the distributor? and is the ignition on a relay which connects the positive to the coil? so the main coil wire goes to the distributor is that the only wire that goes across because the spark plugs are grounded? i hope you understand and can help thanks? i don't realy know what i'm doing
No sir. The condenser stores the charge that ultimately fires the spark plug. The whole system must be in tact with all of its parts for the engine to run. Zip~
Close but Nil cigar The condenser across the points helps the points to NOT burn - removing it will ensure Points fail early ( and often ). It has Zip to do with " storing a charge that helps fire spark plug ".
kidzoog This reverses the flow and can certainly short out the coil, it's internal resistor (if equipped) and/or the condenser, yes. I have accidentally hooked up coils backwards, but was quick to realize my mistake and got lucky with no damage. But I would guess that continued cranking to the engine could result in permanent damage to the components. Hope this helps. Zip~
Hello there,,, I saw your video and was helpful, I have a gravely that has an ignition coil that connect to fly wheel.. there is one wire that goes to sparking plug and another male connector. is any way you can tell me where the connector goes... How should I wire that so I can stop the machine running.... thanks in advance
Durn, i was here looking for answer to same Question.. It appears if coil has 4 ohms Resistance no added external-resistor required..which is NOT working for me as Coils keep burning out.. I do know if external resister is used, need a 4 wire ignition switch, so as ext-resistor is NOT in circuit when starting, but Must be in-circuit when engine is running. My big-problem is what are the actual resistor ( and coil-resistance ) Values specifically ? A 4 ohm coil burnt-out after just a few hours, i have another Coil that measures 1.5 ohms, and seems like it would be a waste of time just using that as-is....
Zippo - Thanks for the explanation, but I do have a question. When I check for continuity across the +& - terminals of my Kohler T17T 2-cylinder engines coil, I get a beep from my meter. Should there be continuity between the two posts of an external coil (like the one you show here) when there is no power to the coil? I am changing my ignition switch and learning about the paths of current between my battery, through the soleniod to the starter, and how it's activated by the 12v coming back to the solenoid from the key switch, etc. In tracing paths of current, i was determining which post my switch goes to (+, of course) but surprised to find continuity between these two posts on the coil. The battery is disconnected, so there is no power to the system. The switch is not yet connected, so it's pretty much static conditions - no power, but yet, continuity. Is that the way it should be? Thanks, Alan (with 3 old Cubs)
Zippo - I read through your comments - and replies and stumbled upon this gem of a link: nationalmaglab.org/education/magnet-academy/watch-play/interactive/ignition-coil This shows me the internal parts of the coil and seem to have answered my question with a clear illustration of what's inside of the coil and what it does. The + & - terminals are indeed in contact when no current is present. It's only when 12v is applied to the + terminal that current flows through the coils to create a field and induce the spark to the plug. Otherwise, the fact that there is continuity without power seems to be ok. Am I correct? Thanks again, Alan (struggling with the complexities of wiring on my old Cub 782 with a Kohler T17 Twin engine. )
There is continuity present, yes. You need to do some research and determine what the correct Ohm parameters should be for your coil. Continuity is just part of the picture in other words. Good luck with the job at hand Alan. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga -Thanks. I wondered about that. It seems that a coil is a coil, but I guess the resistance value can be different. I will look into that. Meanwhile, another coil problem. Since I have not gotten my 782 working yet - and the clutch throwout bearing is still kaput on the 1200, I picked up a "quick fix" - 109 from a friend for $300. It is small and weak compared to my others (10 hp, 33" deck), but it runs... and cuts.. HOWEVER... after the first 2-3 hours of cutting in the heat, it quit. Just died in the field. I fried the coil. Fortunately, I had the 1200 coil to replace it with. I was back in business... for a while.... next evening when i came out to cut during the cooler part of the day, i turned the key and nothing. Totally dead. But, since I've had my head so deep into Cub wiring for the past few weeks, I quickly traced the problem to the power line going throw the ammeter and to the switch. The crusty old wire was broken. I cleaned it up, re-joined and taped the wires and went to work - in only about five minutes! Boy, was I relieved! ;) Thanks to you and to all the guys who post troubleshooting information on the web. Guys like me could not learn what we need to learn in such an easy and efficient way.
I have a wheel horse gt 14 with a kohler k 321 and it had electric ignition when I got it and no key ignition and I bought one for it but I don’t want to use lights or accessories so do I need the magneto? I have to check if the stator is there
Don, without a coil, you have no spark to the spark plug. You can use any coil you can get your hands on. If there is no 12V either stamped to or printed on the coil, then it is a 6V and will require a resistor readily available at your local NAPA. I suggest locating a 12V coil (Also NAPA) and wire it as shown. Also get a new Condenser and make sure your points are clean and properly adjusted to .020. Lay the plug on the engine to a known good ground (head bolt should be fine) and crank the engine over to make sure you have spark. If so....install the plug and your points ignition system should be in working order. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga I have one of these same Kohler engines on a Weldanpower but I have no coil? Where the coil goes is a plate with the amp meter and starter switch. My spark plug wires tucks in between the heads and the fan housing.. wtf? I get a little bit of a spark from the plug but not a lot
Without a condenser your currant may try to jump the points gap instead of going to ground thr the hi tension windings of the coil? I think im correct in saying that?,lol
hi how do you see if there is fire on the coil i swinged the motor but there no spark coming from the coil . I checked the points there is a spark . do i need a new coil or what can it be .
That must be a different engine than I had on the genny/welder in that case.I'm not sure which model it was but it was older than dirt.I couldn't even get points for it(didn't really know where to look though)so I put an eliminator on it.The Kohlers I've owned always did good for me though and this one looks like it was taken care of.Mine always looked like something that was dragged out of a swamp so if that means anything you ought to have a good experience with it.
Hi Zippo, I am working on a K301 that has been wires going here there and everywhere. I'm wondering if you could do a detailed video showing the correct wiring, including key ignition switch, regulator/rectifier, etc. If possible, I would be grateful!
Nathan Hilbig I'm the wrong person for that video I'm afraid. I'm a Briggs guy. The Kohler in this video is the only one I have kept and that's only because it was a gift. Had it come in as a trade or the like, it would have been gone shortly there after. There are guys on here that specialize in Kohlers who probably already have videos posted on correctly wiring things up. I would have been happy to make the video for you if I had the later model Kohler with internal alternator, but as it stands, this engine has the Delco Remy External Starter/Generator which uses a Delco Regulator. Sorry I can't be of more help and best of luck with your project! Cheers! Zip~
Hello there perfect explanation! I'm wondering if you can help out with my problem is have a old lincoln welder that have the kohler motor on it but I'm thinking that my magneto it's bad, but it's the one on the flywheel I'm wondering if I can just swap it with one like yours!!!thanks in advance
Most generally, yes, adding a battery ignition coil will solve a lot of problems. Make sure the points and condenser (if so equipped) are good and that you don't have an unknown ground causing the no spark then you should be good to go. Cheers!! Zip~
I should add, if your current magneto is solid state, meaning no points, then you will have to replace it since you will have no way to tell the battery ignition coil when to fire.
ZippoVarga hello zippo thanks alot for answer I just order the new points and condenser to see is this will solve my problem if not do I have to buy a new magneto or one of this coil will solve my problems so I don't have to deal with the magneto again???
ZippoVarga even like I say new points and condenser are coming but I'm wondering if I have to have a good magneto to be able to have those coil like yours
When ever possible, always go with stock parts. If the points and condenser don't do the trick, then I would replace the bad magneto with the same thing. Magneto's are very reliable. Zip~
maybe a dumb question but if I were to do this to a 2 cylinder outboard no alternator, ( 2 coils obviously) would it drain the battery quickly having to run the coils?
No it wouldn't be sufficient. I would get two deep cycle batteries and only hook one up at a time so when one dies, you have the back up to get back to the docks. But honestly, I would replace the defective magneto's and not use battery ignition at all. Zip~
Thx brother! Tested my + resp -side of the coil…did not have 12 volts…car dont start.’..can i jumpwire direct from battery +?the coil is healthy, interchanged the coil with another car, and the coil is ok ! I just want the car started tomorrow as a quick fix to move the car.’..
I replaced an internal coil with an external on a 1978 Simplicity garden tractor with a 16 horse Briggs. The coil has and internal resistor. Can you tell me what the ohm reading should be when I check the + to - poles? I am not showing any ohms at all. On a coil with an outside resistor you should get 1.4 t0 1.8. Is it the same with internal resister? Thanks
hello there , idd like to say thankyou for the video , i not used to these old systems and i have a vintage 1950`s - mid 1960`s 30 ft boom Forklift to get running and get home , and it has lost its spark , i had changed coil thinking it was that , but the guy i got it from had messed with it and he too could got get spark, it turns out booth of us has it Wired wrong , i will go back to it and try to wire it right following what u said on this post , The way it is wired right now ( wrong ) the points on the + and the other - side is grounded , so this could be why. Will wire a red wire on the + side directly to the battery , and on the negative side will stick that on the points and condenser side. and try that.
Mr Varga - I am trying to convert my 74 16hp iron B&S. to a coil ignition as my in-line plug tester shows a weak spark. My issues: The plug wire from the magneto still fires as well as the wire from the coil. I used a new coil with internal resistor and a condenser. 12 volt from the ignition switch is attached to the + side and the points and condenser are attached to the - side, with the condenser being grounded via the mounting tab.The engine ran with the magneto but was very hard to start. A new carb didn't help. since the coil was installed, the engine will not start nor fire with starting fluid. Any help appreciated. The tractor is a Gilson with hydraulic lift
Briggs run best with their original magneto. Your issue is a points gap issue and not the magneto. Clean then points....get the engine to run on the magneto with an in line spark tester, then adjust the points until you get the hottest (brightest) spark with the engine running. Then, address the carburetor via my many videos on that subject. Keep me posted. And please, save the battery ignition coil for engines designed for them. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga Well - I was unaware the points could be adjusted while the engine was running! That makes it a bit easier. It lit right off after the coil was removed and I adjusted the points while cranking. Spark tester showed MUCH stronger spark. Just a bit of carb adjusting and the beast will be fine. YOU DA MAN!
My 1963 chevy Impala coil positive is connected to the starter and the second wire to the fuse box. And negative side of the coil is connected to the distributor points. I wonder if this correct because i am not having any spark and/or what can be the problem to fix this?
Your best bet is to go to the original Wiring Diagram and let that be your guide for proper wiring Ernesto. With so many battery ignition types out there, the manufacturers of each have slight differences in approaching the wiring. Best of luck and sorry I can't give you specifics. But they should be easy enough to search. Stay Safe! Zip~
While the vehicle is running I have around 13.45 volts going into the coil and around 6+ coming out of it into the distributor. Is that how it should be? If not , is my coil bad? Its new.
Biggest tip in this video, notice how he has mounted his coil with a mounting band away from his carburetor.. Friends, do youself a favor and do the same.
I have a 66 SS-10 I got a new 12v battery in it and I noticed my existing ignition coil started leaking oil and was extremely hot. I disconnected the neg battery terminal and it cooled off and stopped leaking. Seems that it could possible be a 6v coil? The coil does look aged and it actually still works now even after leaking oil. Im expecting it will fail at some point. My plan is to purchase a new 12v coil from the auto store but I want to know why this existing one started melting down and spewing oil after 2 hours connected. Any input?
45von is correct. The secondary coil, inside the coil on battery ignition systems, is what actually makes the spark. It can only do so when the points are open. When the points are closed, both the primary coil inside the coil and the condenser (which is really a battery) receive current. When the points open, the rapid loss of this charge to the primary coil windings induces a large voltage in the secondary coil winding, That is the source of the spark that ignites fuel. The condenser sends its charge along to the primary windings as well. Happily, the condenser also prevents the arc that would otherwise happen when the points close again so they don't burn-up rapidly.
You're correct on both counts. It would replace a bad magneto if a suitable stock replacement isn't available and is used on engines like the Kohler shown that don't have a magneto ignition system. Hope all is well my Friend! Cheers!
The coil creates spark when the points OPEN, not close. When the circuit is closed, the coil creates a strong magnetic field. When the points open, the field collapses, with electrons going into the secondary winding and discharging across the spark plug gap.
Thanks Zip ; With this video I was able wire my 16 HP Briggs and get it running . This is just one of your VERY helpful videos that I will rely on and enjoy . Hey, I am even looking at the grip 6 belts. Thanks again and keep up the good work.
Don't forget to use my 20% discount code!!!! It's ZIPPO20. So far, 52 people have taken advantage of the discount. Be #53!! They're Awesome buckles and belts for sure. And of course, I'm very glad this video helped you get your problematic Briggs back up and running. Cheers from the Zippo Nation! Zip~
Thank you ZIPPO!!!!!! This video was a life saver. You should make some play lists. Like wiring and so on. Thank man.
+B grizz Thanks for the tip Grizz. My videos are automatically grouped by content with other like videos in playlists through a program, but I can create separate playlists that are only of my videos. The only thing standing in my way of doing that right now is it's my busy season, but I will see about helping out with some playlists when time allows. Thanks again! Zip~ Glad the video helped!
You're the best of the best of the Whole Wide West. Thank you. You've explained it well.
I'm glad your question was answered! Thanks for stopping by. Cheers!!
Zippo, I have a simplicity 3414 with a B&S engine, the magneto is bad , I'm unable to find a replacement, I'm Ethier going to have to go electronic ignition or
Go to the battery coil ignition like a Kohler, if I go battery coil ignition how would my ignition switch work, because right now that wire is a ground to kill the engine, and it would have to be a hot that would go dead to kill the engine then. Or Would I just be better off going electronic and then I would not have to rewire the hole tractor?
Thank you buddy, I appreciate your time and kindness!
Great Video, You have the best Video to explain the right way to connect the Coil to the points and condenser. One thing in your statement you first stated Capacitor for the Condenser then changed the wording to Condenser. You are Right the first time most people doesn't know the Condenser is a Small Capacitor. It build a electrical Charge and make the spark on the points hotter. Great Video Plus AAAAA++++++.
Thanks much for the props Waymon! I tend to use the words most are familiar with and yep...it's a small capacitor that the world market dubbed the "Condenser". The same holds true for motor oil. They CALL it Detergent Oil, but there is no actual Detergent in it. It has a variety of chemicals designed to hold the contaminants in suspension so they'll pass through a filtering media like oil filter or cartridge. When talking small engines without an oil filter, you don't want to use Detergent oils because the contaminants are not being captured by a filter and are instead, being carried throughout the crank case where they can do harm to bearings, bushings, journals etc. Cheers! Zip~
@@ZippoVarga Very Good Article.
Very true and great advice! Thanks for your input. I hope others read comments to learn of this addition if using an automotive coil. Again, thanks much!! Cheers!
Hi sir im have a question if how to fix ignition coil to distributor susuki multicab 6cylinder thanks
thanks so much zippo. I may use a starter generator later on in the future but for now i have just left it alone. cause im going to use it for a snowplow in the winter i will just bring the battery in the house until i have to use it. thank you zippo
first time I ever heard that explained. great job
Glad you liked it!
Thanks that's a really informative lesson I can start working on my sl100 ignition system tomorrow
Good luck!
Providing you are using a small engine Coil, the old Condenser will be fine. If using an Automotive Coil, you will need an in line resistor or you will burn up the automotive coils quickly. Hope this helps! Cheers!!
Nicely Done.
Will that work for 6 V system
Thanks! I had intended on making this video some time back and it slipped my mind. I've got a slight case of "CRS" lol. Cheers!
Thank you! I hope it helps someone out of a bad spot!
Thanks, Zippo!! Worked like a charm!!
I’ve looked a long time for this video. I borrowed the coil on my mgb and I’m trying to wire it back in
I hope it's helpful! Zip~
Good can you explain this wiring in car ignition system as well.
I have a panzer with a Kohler motor. It ran all summer, and two days ago no go. If I hold the spark plug wire, not even a tickle. I put new points, 18 gap, new coil and condenser, no go, I'm stuck HELP. I tested the coil and it shocked the crap out of me so I guess that is good.
Good video. On a side note make sure that you check whether your vehicle is negative ground or positive ground, recently bought an old British car from 1960 and it's a positive ground but there are no markings anywhere to say that.
It's always a good practice to note where the positive cable goes on a new to you vehicle. Some earlier Lincolns are also positive ground. Good info to pass along. Thanks Exogator! Zip~
ZippoVarga like I said mine had no description of what the cables are, both have universal strap terminals on them, only reason I noticed was after poking around with the dizzy cap off gapping the contacts, then hand cranking the motor to check(it's that old that it has a hand crank still) and when putting it back in I noticed the coil was wired with positive to the cap and negative to the battery.
Good Catch Exo! Most wouldn't notice that. Zip~
In most cases, yes, you can use most any small engine condenser in place of one that is suspected to be bad.
Thank you sir this really helped me out!!! subscribed..
Hi Steven. Kohlers equipped with an alternator/stator must also have a regulator/rectifier in order to be able to run without a battery. Don't connect the alternator/stator directly to the coil. Another option is, if you have room, add a pulley flywheel cover and a starter generator with a regulator like is shown on my Kohler. I hope this helps!
Can you ground out the coil on the negative side I would assume not because the coil is grounded on the case right
No. The negative post on a coil isn't for negative or ground, the + is for the battery input and the - goes to the points. The grounding happens on the case of the unit when it's mounted. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga thank you I figured it out I didn't have ohms on the coils I was using, the couple coils I used only had .8 ohms and 1.7ohms and I found that 2.8-3 ohms works the best for my application thank you
The little condenser by coil is for the radio on my truck, I don’t have a radio so I remove that and no issues
Just got a wheelhorse with a k series Kohler 12 hp and no spark. Condenser thing is on plus side with another wire going to switch. Update. I reversed wires and tractor fired right up.
Just what I needed because I haven't worked on an old engine like this one in a long time. I have a rectangular-shaped box between the postive post on the coil and my battery. What is it?
Exactly what I needed thanks.
Zippo if if my coil isn't connected right with the battery with grounded like you said and what would that cause popping in the engine like if I could hear like a popping sound coming out of the exhaust down in the bottom of the engine and it's a 1950 Ford car
The intermittent popping you speak of is usually points or ignition related at the distributor. It can be a dirty spark plug, bad plug wire that is arcing somewhere or the condenser could be going bad which would cause the points to visibly spark and cause the popping you describe. If your engine is still using the original points operated distributor then those are the things to check. If you've got an aftermarket electronic spark ignition then with the engine running, listen closely for a sharp click under the hood. This would be the faulty plug wire or other component arcing to ground intermittently. The easiest way to locate these types of faults is to start the engine and in as dark a place as you can find, just do a visual under the hood. You're looking for a strobing blue or yellow flash. When you find that, that is your problem. If nothing is seen or heard, typically doing a full tuneup will help or rid you of the ignition misfire. Zip~
I know this is old video but if you run your coil like this can you use the nova 2 to get rid of the point and if so would you still need a condenser?
The Nova II is not compatible with external Coil ignition. It's to be used with a Magneto type ignition system.
Is there a option for something like this that you know of that works for the external coil
In the commentary from 0.55 to 1.15 min the description is wrong , In the external battery powered coil current is flowing through the coil when the points are Closed creating a magnetic field from the primary winding in the coil that surrounds the secondary , ( high tension ) winding , as the engine rotates to the correct position to fire , the points then Open.!! The current flowing in the primary ceases and the magnetic field collapses , that is where the condenser comes into play , it reduces the arc when the points break and ensures a faster collapse of the primary field
The collapsing field induces a high voltage in the Secondary coil which is Conducted by the High Tension lead to the spark plug
Where exactly is your negative battery cable grounded to? I am having trouble getting my Kohler engine just like yours grounded.
I typically run a ground to the engine block. Anywhere on the block should be fine so long as you clear any paint from the access point.
How would this work if I got an electronic ignition and cut out the points setup?
It wouldn't.
@@ZippoVarga I don't understand. If a electronic ignition device replaces the points why wouldn't an external coil work?
thanks, i might try that on my wisconsin..no spark, points frozen, i cleaned it up ,still nothing..a bat.& ext. coil is awsome idea
So the Positive side of the coil goes directly to the battery or to the ignition post on the key switch?.... I'm working on an old Ford/Jacobson with a K341 and the wiring harness is a mess and the original ignition switch was faulty when I purchased the tractor. I had to running last year for the summer mower season by jumping the solenoid but this year I wanted to install an ignition switch and build a new wiring harness. The original ignition switch had 5 terminals and the new one has 4 terminals/posts. Start, ignition battery and accessories. I was thinking the positive side of the coil should go to the Ignition post on the switch?....Am I wrong?.
So long as the key switch has + battery power when switched on to one of the terminals, you can connect the coil there for sure. Zip~
I have a question about the condenser. Using a test light With the ignition switch on Is the positive side of the coil supposed to be hot?
Both sides of the coil are actually "hot" when the coil fires. The "-" negative symbol is simply the wire going from the coil to the points. So, with the key switch on, the coil will be hot going to it and coming from the negative side when the points close. The instant the points release, the stored energy in the condenser it released and the spark plug fires. Zip~
Do I need to install the condenser that came with my coil if there is already
one in the points box?
Travis Matthews any luck.
It depends on the engine requirements. Typically, one condenser is all that's needed. Zip~
ok hears a question i have just acquired a quod ., scooter engine . & it got a feu problems with the waring infant it cut to bit's & i think it time to rethink the system & revert to fitng points . here's a quick thought given it as a place where the trigger coil fits as a pace of rased steel would this lift the points sufficient to open the points & fier the coil ? it 0ne mill thik prap's tow. i supo's a spot of weld may lift the pins more . but i would prefer not to wel on the fly wheel. the stream reman as the ratified garger for the battery . Praps you could answer this question .
I'm only as good as my horse. Thanks for the videos that help me to travel aBlaze. Dogspeed!
What if u don't have points condser mine just has stator wires coming out under flywheel
Then it sounds like you've got a solid state ignition system. Zip~
What would cause my 1990 dodge d250 with the 318 to lose spark right after I fire it up it will idle for a few seconds than shut off and I'll have fuel but no spark
Check for a proper ground to the coil and ignition switch. Sometimes terminals get corroded and need cleaned. So go over all of the ignition system wires one at a time and clean them then add a dab of dielectric grease to help prevent future failures. With the key switch, there is a pigtail (plug) at the base of the steering column that the key switch wiring goes through. Disconnect and reconnect the plugs to help clean them, but don't use dielectric grease on these because it can breach connections and cause more problems than it solves. Good Luck! Zip~
Ballast resistor
I did this to a friends b110 that had a bad coil / mag. Works great. So when my b10 started symptoms of losing spark when got, I bought a coil and set it up the same way. I cannot get it to spark. Points are new. I have swapped coil and condenser with ones of a running tractor so I know they're not bad. Yes I have 12 volts to the coil when the switch is on.
My only guess is that either the gap isn't quite right on the points or the cam bump for closing the points is worn to the point where it is no longer effective. If the original coil is still in place, try installing a Nova II points eliminator in place of the points. This will not work with the battery ignition coil though. Those are my thoughts. Zip~
Thanks zip. I did try adjusting the points both ways. Once in a while I would get a brief spark. I think ultimately I'm going to pull the engine and install a new Mag / coil then also add a nova 2 and it should be reliable for a long time.
if the condensor is bad can it be replaced by any old garden tractor condensor or does it need to be specific to that model engine?thanks for your time.
Excellent information. Thank you!
I'm glad you found it useful Woods! Zip~
Hi. Just wondering what is the make of the tractor in the background with the white bonnet, under the green cab, working on something very similar to it at the moment for a friend and he had no idea what make or model it is. Thanks
That was a 3416H Simplicity. Simpletractors.com is your best place for info on them. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga Thank You, thats exactly what is it
I have a case 300 we are trying to run. It had gas but no spark . There's power running to the coil but from there on, no more power
It sounds like the coil it self is bad Ricardo.
Very good explanation! Can you pls explain the two wire type comdensor wiring? I would really appreciate.(it seems the two wire type has both a positive and earth wire...)
ME TO I WEAR GLASSES BUT THEY DONT WORK TO WELL...IM TO OLD TO GET THEM FIXED NOW...MY EYES THAT IS...LMCAO...ANYWAY I WANT TO THANK YOU FOR PUTTING THIS ONE UP...I HAD A HARD TIME FINDING THE OLD TYPE OF COIL HOOK UPS NOW A DAYS ALL THE CARS HAS THOSE STUPID BLOCK COILS OR COILS FOR EACH PLUG WIRE...WHICH COST MORE GO FIGURE..PLUS THEY WEAR OUT FASTER...OLD COILS LAST ALMOST A LIFE TIME OF THE CAR...LMCAO...ANYWAY THANKS...I NEED THIS BEEN LONG TIME SINCE I DONE IT AND MY OLD BRAIN FORGOT HOW TO BUT I CAN REBUILD A 4 BARREL CARB AND A WHOLE OLD STYLE ENGINE...MY LAST REBUILD MOTOR WAS A 472....LATER THEY CAME OUT WITH A 500...IT WAS A GOOD BUILD AND FIRED UP THE FIRST TIME IT TURNED OVER ....IT WAS A BIG CAR AND A BIG ENGINE AND IT WOULD HAUL THE TRASH OUT....LOL...THANKS AGAIN....
BUTCH, I'M GLAD THE VIDEO HELPED JUMP START THE OLD MEMORY BANKS. I CAN ONLY SPECULATE THAT YOU ARE A CADILLAC MAN. THE 500, SO FAR AS MY MEMORY RECOLLECTS, WAS SYNONYMOUS WITH THE CADILLAC LINE UP IN THE 1970'S. ALL THREE OF ME VEHICLES ARE VINTAGE (24, 26 AND 38 YEARS OLD) AND ARE ALL SINGLE COIL POWERED. TWO ARE FUEL INJECTED HOWEVER. BEST OF LUCK WITH YOUR REPAIR!! ZIP~
So the coil has to bolted to the block also saying it is grounded to
No, it doesn't have to ground to the engine, but the Condenser will need grounded. The coil is positive battery only. The band is just to secure it with any means necessary. Zip~
Hey zippo , do you have a video on how to bench test an external coil. I have a Kohler K341 with no spark & is driving me nuts. I believe I’ve checked everything except the coil itself
This question is on a older post. Since I just found this information and applied it today. It worked great. I wired my positive to my ignition and my old Wheel Horse is up and running again. However I need information about the in line resistor you spoke to 574carter about. I am using a automobile coil... I think. Was in my shed and figure that's where it came from. I have the condenser installed as you stated and used a automobile condenser but do I need some kind of in line resistor? If so will you explain a bit further for me?
Just keep check for things to get hot, like the condenser and coil. If they get pretty warm to the touch, you'll need to chance the condenser and/or add a resistor. The exact science isn't known by me, but we have a gentleman in the comments named maverick351 that understands this part of the process better than I do. I would contact him if possible and if you find your coil is over heating.
I bought a 74 Dodge with a 318 with a "crank but no spark" scenario. I have been replacing everything in the ignition system, and still have no spark. Today I realized that the last owner had run the external capacitor/condensor (whats the difference?) from the Coil's "+" terminal and then to a ground bolt. I removed the external capacitor/condensor and installed a new coil, and thought that would solve the problem. But still no spark. Would the mistake of having the capacitor run to the Coil "+" terminal have been the reason for no spark?
Did the original ignition key switch have 4 wire hook ups or 3 on the back of the ignition key switch mine has 3
The key switch on your particular machine is specific to your machine. I have no way of answering this, not knowing what application your key switch is installed on. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga mines still good just looks old is all
Question… I have ‘69 Lincoln mark III with A 460 engine. It has a capacitor/condenser on the outside of the coil just like the one in your video. There is also a condenser in the distributor with the points. Should there be 2?
This is a question best answered by a knowledgeable Ford Mechanic. I don't know the requirements. Zip~
I have to power on the wires the go to the coil. Is that normal? Or what could it be?
Yes....if this is similar to your ignition set up, the Plus side of the battery must be connected to the Plus on the coil. Zip~
I HAD AN IDEA OF MY QWN TO DO THIS , BUT WASN'T SURE HOW TO DO IT. THANKS A LOT FOR THE INFO. THE PRICE OF AN O.E. COIL IS OVER 100.00 AND I HAVE A MULCHER THAT NEEDS A COIL, BUT NOT ONE FOR THAT PRICE
Does that way work for a positive negative vehicle
Excellent video. I have a NOVA electronic ignition in lieu of points and condenser on my AC B-110. I would like to add a coil as you have shown because I have a weak spark and engine won't fire. Will this external coil still work with the NOVA module ?
No it will not. You will have to return to a points fired ignition in order to achieve using a battery ignition. If you have a weak spark, change your spark plug to a hotter burning plug. I doubt it's the coil causing the issue. It's possible the flywheel and coil need cleaned up a little and re-gapped. Cheers! Zip~
I was trying to avoid pulling the engine, to access coil, which entails almost complete disassembly of the front half of tractor :(
I have a video showing the process and it truly doesn't take long to accomplish. Zip~
I replaced NOVA with points and condenser and got back the spark, ;). I guess NOVA's do wear out. I'll remember about your engine pulling video. thanks.
What engine was this? I have a very similar, if not the exact same one. No ignition to spark. My question is how long will the battery last before needing to recharge??
It's a Kohler K series 12hp. If your engine doesn't have an internal or external generator, it's all dependent on the quality and type of battery. A deep cycle would be your best bet so that you can fully deplete the battery and recharge it many times. I can't even begin to offer an answer to your question of how long the engine will run though. Zip~
depends on the batter i once drove a lorry all the way to maffick & back on a faulty alternator it was only when the lights whear on it gave me a prolom.
This is a set up for tractor mower only?
Hi zippo,mike here from France,great video,I'm going to use it
On my 10 hp honda outboard,it's 4stroke 2 cylinder,got a new coil coming
Not sure if the condenser is ok,so I think it's a good idea to get one,
Honda say 0.24 microfarads is that number critical.
Thanks mike
Try the condenser with the new coil. It's either good or bad. There's no in between with them. The microfarads sounds like the ohm equivalence we use to measure resistance here in the US, so if you do need to replace the condenser, I would stick with the factory recommended condenser. Thanks for stopping in and I wish you the best in the repair!! Cheers! Zip~
ZippoVarga
microfarads measures capacitance, whereas ohms measures resistance. they are both different measurements.
maverick351
Thank you for clearing that up for me. I'm not clear at all on resistance and capacitance and their differences, so this is very helpful for those who don't know, like my self. With this explanation, one holds a charge and the other resists....am I understanding correctly now? Thanks again!
ZippoVarga yes, you are correct……glad to be of help….makes the world go round just that little bit easier!!!
Capacitors are condensers. Condensers are old pre-solid-state-device names for caps.
There is only 1 wire coming from my points box. The condenser and points seem to be on the same wire. How can it go 2 different places on the coil?
I have a wiring mess on a K321 . The previous owner had the condenser and the battery power on the same terminal on the coil. Had a real weak spark. And for some reason the starter is only getting 5 V even though I have 12 at the starting solenoid
Isolate the engine from the implement or mower you are working on (bypass all the piece of equipment's wiring from the engine. Then wire just the engine with a battery. Ground the block with the negative. Run a jump wire to the Coil (+ from the battery +) then the "-" negative goes from the coil to the points with the Condenser attached to the "-". Then, run a heavy cable (wire) to the starter lug bolt. When you're ready to check spark and the starters performance, touch the heavy cable from the starter to the + terminal of the battery. At this point you should have good spark (pending the condition of the points) and the starter should get the full benefit of the battery. Your issues are all too common unfortunately. It's best to go from the engine to the rest of the wiring harness. Find a Wiring Diagram on line to help guide you. Zip~
I have an lj80 and the condenser is on the distributor,
is the ignition the same as the points box?
do i connect the negative to the condenser even though it is on the distributor?
and is the ignition on a relay which connects the positive to the coil?
so the main coil wire goes to the distributor is that the only wire that goes across because the spark plugs are grounded?
i hope you understand and can help thanks?
i don't realy know what i'm doing
Can you put an external battery coil on a 23-D?
I have a 73 mg midget and ca t seem to get it wired back up right. I dont know where the points are.
The points are under the spark plug cap on the distributor RL. Zip~
Do you put the positive to the negative or positive side of the battery
How does it work with a briggs and stratton 19d. Cuz points and condenser are both togeather. No videos on yt explaining this
I should have said what will happen without the condenser? Will the engine still run?
No sir. The condenser stores the charge that ultimately fires the spark plug. The whole system must be in tact with all of its parts for the engine to run. Zip~
Close but Nil cigar
The condenser across the points helps the points to NOT burn - removing it will ensure Points fail early ( and often ).
It has Zip to do with " storing a charge that helps fire spark plug ".
will you burn up the coil if the wires are switched? like the battery positive is hooked to the negative on the coil? etc.
kidzoog This reverses the flow and can certainly short out the coil, it's internal resistor (if equipped) and/or the condenser, yes. I have accidentally hooked up coils backwards, but was quick to realize my mistake and got lucky with no damage. But I would guess that continued cranking to the engine could result in permanent damage to the components. Hope this helps. Zip~
Hello there,,, I saw your video and was helpful, I have a gravely that has an ignition coil that connect to fly wheel.. there is one wire that goes to sparking plug and another male connector. is any way you can tell me where the connector goes... How should I wire that so I can stop the machine running.... thanks in advance
Could you still do it without the condenser
No sir. The Condenser acts like a battery that stores the energy created by the coil. You Must have it in place. Zip~
Hi Bro, How to wiring Hitachi ignition coil, with ballast resisitor attached together with the ignition coil?
For Mitsubishi Galant 1982
Do you have a video on where and how and what to hookup a resistor with the coil that does NOT have an internal resistor? thanks Gary
Durn, i was here looking for answer to same Question.. It appears if coil has 4 ohms Resistance no added external-resistor required..which is NOT working for me as Coils keep burning out.. I do know if external resister is used, need a 4 wire ignition switch, so as ext-resistor is NOT in circuit when starting, but Must be in-circuit when engine is running. My big-problem is what are the actual resistor ( and coil-resistance ) Values specifically ? A 4 ohm coil burnt-out after just a few hours, i have another Coil that measures 1.5 ohms, and seems like it would be a waste of time just using that as-is....
I have a 52 Studebaker with a positive ground, is it the same with just everything reversed?
I would consult with a Studebaker forum, perhaps on Facebook or a collector group or web sight to be sure Real. Cheers! Zip~
+RU4REAL Hi I have the same situation did you find out if it is? Thanks
Are you giving it power bc both side will have power bc with the point it will brake up making the spark
Do you have to unscrew the screw in the middle of the coil?
No no....that's an assembly screw.
Zippo - Thanks for the explanation, but I do have a question. When I check for continuity across the +& - terminals of my Kohler T17T 2-cylinder engines coil, I get a beep from my meter. Should there be continuity between the two posts of an external coil (like the one you show here) when there is no power to the coil?
I am changing my ignition switch and learning about the paths of current between my battery, through the soleniod to the starter, and how it's activated by the 12v coming back to the solenoid from the key switch, etc. In tracing paths of current, i was determining which post my switch goes to (+, of course) but surprised to find continuity between these two posts on the coil.
The battery is disconnected, so there is no power to the system. The switch is not yet connected, so it's pretty much static conditions - no power, but yet, continuity. Is that the way it should be? Thanks, Alan (with 3 old Cubs)
Zippo - I read through your comments - and replies and stumbled upon this gem of a link: nationalmaglab.org/education/magnet-academy/watch-play/interactive/ignition-coil
This shows me the internal parts of the coil and seem to have answered my question with a clear illustration of what's inside of the coil and what it does. The + & - terminals are indeed in contact when no current is present. It's only when 12v is applied to the + terminal that current flows through the coils to create a field and induce the spark to the plug. Otherwise, the fact that there is continuity without power seems to be ok. Am I correct?
Thanks again, Alan (struggling with the complexities of wiring on my old Cub 782 with a Kohler T17 Twin engine. )
There is continuity present, yes. You need to do some research and determine what the correct Ohm parameters should be for your coil. Continuity is just part of the picture in other words. Good luck with the job at hand Alan. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga -Thanks. I wondered about that. It seems that a coil is a coil, but I guess the resistance value can be different. I will look into that. Meanwhile, another coil problem. Since I have not gotten my 782 working yet - and the clutch throwout bearing is still kaput on the 1200, I picked up a "quick fix" - 109 from a friend for $300. It is small and weak compared to my others (10 hp, 33" deck), but it runs... and cuts.. HOWEVER... after the first 2-3 hours of cutting in the heat, it quit. Just died in the field. I fried the coil. Fortunately, I had the 1200 coil to replace it with. I was back in business... for a while.... next evening when i came out to cut during the cooler part of the day, i turned the key and nothing. Totally dead. But, since I've had my head so deep into Cub wiring for the past few weeks, I quickly traced the problem to the power line going throw the ammeter and to the switch. The crusty old wire was broken. I cleaned it up, re-joined and taped the wires and went to work - in only about five minutes! Boy, was I relieved! ;)
Thanks to you and to all the guys who post troubleshooting information on the web. Guys like me could not learn what we need to learn in such an easy and efficient way.
What is the purpose of the condenser? I have a 1973 Dodge Dart Swinger that won’t start. The condenser wire is frail.
The Condenser serves as a charge storage device, much like a Capacitor and they are prone to going bad and inexpensive to replace. Zip~
I have a wheel horse gt 14 with a kohler k 321 and it had electric ignition when I got it and no key ignition and I bought one for it but I don’t want to use lights or accessories so do I need the magneto? I have to check if the stator is there
Is there a coil that will work on all these small Koehler engines?
Please explain what happens without the condenser?
Don, without a coil, you have no spark to the spark plug. You can use any coil you can get your hands on. If there is no 12V either stamped to or printed on the coil, then it is a 6V and will require a resistor readily available at your local NAPA. I suggest locating a 12V coil (Also NAPA) and wire it as shown. Also get a new Condenser and make sure your points are clean and properly adjusted to .020. Lay the plug on the engine to a known good ground (head bolt should be fine) and crank the engine over to make sure you have spark. If so....install the plug and your points ignition system should be in working order. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga I have one of these same Kohler engines on a Weldanpower but I have no coil? Where the coil goes is a plate with the amp meter and starter switch. My spark plug wires tucks in between the heads and the fan housing.. wtf? I get a little bit of a spark from the plug but not a lot
Without a condenser your currant may try to jump the points gap instead of going to ground thr the hi tension windings of the coil?
I think im correct in saying that?,lol
hi how do you see if there is fire on the coil i swinged the motor but there no spark coming from the coil . I checked the points there is a spark . do i need a new coil or what can it be .
That must be a different engine than I had on the genny/welder in that case.I'm not sure which model it was but it was older than dirt.I couldn't even get points for it(didn't really know where to look though)so I put an eliminator on it.The Kohlers I've owned always did good for me though and this one looks like it was taken care of.Mine always looked like something that was dragged out of a swamp so if that means anything you ought to have a good experience with it.
Hi Zippo, I am working on a K301 that has been wires going here there and everywhere. I'm wondering if you could do a detailed video showing the correct wiring, including key ignition switch, regulator/rectifier, etc. If possible, I would be grateful!
Nathan Hilbig I'm the wrong person for that video I'm afraid. I'm a Briggs guy. The Kohler in this video is the only one I have kept and that's only because it was a gift. Had it come in as a trade or the like, it would have been gone shortly there after. There are guys on here that specialize in Kohlers who probably already have videos posted on correctly wiring things up. I would have been happy to make the video for you if I had the later model Kohler with internal alternator, but as it stands, this engine has the Delco Remy External Starter/Generator which uses a Delco Regulator. Sorry I can't be of more help and best of luck with your project! Cheers! Zip~
Got it, I will keep looking. Thanks for your reply!
Hello there perfect explanation! I'm wondering if you can help out with my problem is have a old lincoln welder that have the kohler motor on it but I'm thinking that my magneto it's bad, but it's the one on the flywheel I'm wondering if I can just swap it with one like yours!!!thanks in advance
Most generally, yes, adding a battery ignition coil will solve a lot of problems. Make sure the points and condenser (if so equipped) are good and that you don't have an unknown ground causing the no spark then you should be good to go. Cheers!! Zip~
I should add, if your current magneto is solid state, meaning no points, then you will have to replace it since you will have no way to tell the battery ignition coil when to fire.
ZippoVarga hello zippo thanks alot for answer I just order the new points and condenser to see is this will solve my problem if not do I have to buy a new magneto or one of this coil will solve my problems so I don't have to deal with the magneto again???
ZippoVarga even like I say new points and condenser are coming but I'm wondering if I have to have a good magneto to be able to have those coil like yours
When ever possible, always go with stock parts. If the points and condenser don't do the trick, then I would replace the bad magneto with the same thing. Magneto's are very reliable. Zip~
maybe a dumb question but if I were to do this to a 2 cylinder outboard no alternator, ( 2 coils obviously) would it drain the battery quickly having to run the coils?
Yes, it would drain the battery in short order. Zip~
think a 18w solar charger would be sufficient to keep the battery charged?
No it wouldn't be sufficient. I would get two deep cycle batteries and only hook one up at a time so when one dies, you have the back up to get back to the docks. But honestly, I would replace the defective magneto's and not use battery ignition at all. Zip~
Thx brother! Tested my + resp -side of the coil…did not have 12 volts…car dont start.’..can i jumpwire direct from battery +?the coil is healthy, interchanged the coil with another car, and the coil is ok ! I just want the car started tomorrow as a quick fix to move the car.’..
I replaced an internal coil with an external on a 1978 Simplicity garden tractor with a 16 horse Briggs. The coil has and internal resistor. Can you tell me what the ohm reading should be when I check the + to - poles? I am not showing any ohms at all. On a coil with an outside resistor you should get 1.4 t0 1.8. Is it the same with internal resister? Thanks
hello there , idd like to say thankyou for the video , i not used to these old systems and i have a vintage 1950`s - mid 1960`s 30 ft boom Forklift to get running and get home , and it has lost its spark , i had changed coil thinking it was that , but the guy i got it from had messed with it and he too could got get spark, it turns out booth of us has it Wired wrong , i will go back to it and try to wire it right following what u said on this post , The way it is wired right now ( wrong ) the points on the + and the other - side is grounded , so this could be why.
Will wire a red wire on the + side directly to the battery , and on the negative side will stick that on the points and condenser side. and try that.
That should give you spark providing the points are in good repair Chris. Best of luck! Zip~
How do I know if my coil is good? How do I test it?
I had a kohler motor with the generator starter on it it ran good
Mr Varga - I am trying to convert my 74 16hp iron B&S. to a coil ignition as my in-line plug tester shows a weak spark. My issues: The plug wire from the magneto still fires as well as the wire from the coil. I used a new coil with internal resistor and a condenser. 12 volt from the ignition switch is attached to the + side and the points and condenser are attached to the - side, with the condenser being grounded via the mounting tab.The engine ran with the magneto but was very hard to start. A new carb didn't help. since the coil was installed, the engine will not start nor fire with starting fluid. Any help appreciated. The tractor is a Gilson with hydraulic lift
Briggs run best with their original magneto. Your issue is a points gap issue and not the magneto. Clean then points....get the engine to run on the magneto with an in line spark tester, then adjust the points until you get the hottest (brightest) spark with the engine running. Then, address the carburetor via my many videos on that subject. Keep me posted. And please, save the battery ignition coil for engines designed for them. Zip~
@@ZippoVarga Well - I was unaware the points could be adjusted while the engine was running! That makes it a bit easier. It lit right off after the coil was removed and I adjusted the points while cranking. Spark tester showed MUCH stronger spark. Just a bit of carb adjusting and the beast will be fine. YOU DA MAN!
And thanks for taking the time to respond to the multitude of questions you must get. It is appreciated.
Always happy to help out when and where I can Reiss. Cheers! Zip~
My 1963 chevy Impala coil positive is connected to the starter and the second wire to the fuse box. And negative side of the coil is connected to the distributor points. I wonder if this correct because i am not having any spark and/or what can be the problem to fix this?
Your best bet is to go to the original Wiring Diagram and let that be your guide for proper wiring Ernesto. With so many battery ignition types out there, the manufacturers of each have slight differences in approaching the wiring. Best of luck and sorry I can't give you specifics. But they should be easy enough to search. Stay Safe! Zip~
While the vehicle is running I have around 13.45 volts going into the coil and around 6+ coming out of it into the distributor. Is that how it should be? If not , is my coil bad? Its new.
Biggest tip in this video, notice how he has mounted his coil with a mounting band away from his carburetor.. Friends, do youself a favor and do the same.
I have the same engine on my John Deere 212 mower tractor can I use Msd coil blaster 2 and upgrade the condenser to 20hp
I bought a new coil and it is has a hard plastic case, how do I ground it? Thanks
The body doesn't need to be grounded Guy. Cheers! Zip~
Ok thanks just thought I would clear that up
I have a 66 SS-10 I got a new 12v battery in it and I noticed my existing ignition coil started leaking oil and was extremely hot. I disconnected the neg battery terminal and it cooled off and stopped leaking. Seems that it could possible be a 6v coil? The coil does look aged and it actually still works now even after leaking oil. Im expecting it will fail at some point. My plan is to purchase a new 12v coil from the auto store but I want to know why this existing one started melting down and spewing oil after 2 hours connected. Any input?