I agree it's not the answer for Ford/GM etc. I don't think EVs are the answer to everything, but they serve a small purpose. They are better for running around town/small things IMO, but not nearly as good at other things I use ICE for.
@@TheCarGuyOnline Only way, they are better for running around town is if you got a charger at home. Something that the majority of people just don't have. Home ownership itself, is quickly becoming a fantasy for most Americans.
@@craigfin3222 I agree. Home prices are similar to car prices, only for the top earners at this point. There needs to be a huge correction in the market and....they need to prevent large private equity groups from buying real estate and renting it.
@@craigfin3222 I live in the NorthEast and we have charging stations at Walmarts,Wawa,Sheets,Walgreens,Royal Farms and other random stops. No problems here.
You have to remember that the government will not allow companies outside the States to under sell American companies. They make good quality vehicles for well under 30k outside the U.S. Polestar,Toyota,Subaru,Mini, Fiat and all rebranded Chinese EVs sold in the States at twice the cost in China.
Complicated topic but I think you summed it up nicely. Vertical integration is the key to success with EV vehicles. Building them with the same suppliers using the same techniques will not yield the savings required. Agree 100% on the use case...a vehicle is a tool...pick the right tool for your needs / application. There is a place for EV, Hybrid and ICE vehicles in the market...no need to subsidize the development. Lastly, there should be stronger consequences for government loans and incentives...companies should issue bonds to cover the costs...taxpayers can't be on the hook for everything.
Hey CGO, really enjoy your videos. Very informative, factual and data based. The ROI on these EV subsidies looks pretty abysmal and the mandates/regulations appear to be hurting the big 3 as well.
Elon said even every car marker did nothing but EVs, be about 80-100 million a year cars produced. It would take at least 25 years to replace every car in the world.
Tesla didn't turn a profit for many yrs. The difference is as mentioned in supply chains, no UAW and the ability to raise or lower sticker prices quickly. The big 3 are bloated antiques that are being forced to enter the EV field and they are finding that the demand really isn't there yet, despite mandates. They can't sell what there isn't the market volume for. They're used to selling hundreds of thousands of vehicles a yr, each, at a fraction of what it costs to make an EV. If they go full EV, they can kiss all that goodbye.
No stone throwing here ! Your take on EVs is right on ...an EV for day to day tasks and a "reliable" ice vehicle for trailering. We are all paying too much for new vehicles and the industry isnt listening. Almost hate to say it but a Ford guy for 40 yrs but now like Toyotas because Im rarely back to dealerships for fixes. A little house cleaning for management at the big 3 is in order.
100%. The older Toyotas I've got have been extremely reliable for me, I don't have any newer than 2011 though...but still, great luck with the old guard. I haven't jumped on any of the new Toyotas yet but....eventually I'll have to pick something.
GM and Ford should have outsourced to Geely and BYD to build EVs that main Americans can afford . Dodge and Chrysler maybe purchased by BYD and they will really be in trouble. But its sad that the big 3 didn't support Rivian with outsourced parts. We now have VW investing in Rivian as they continue to push out Amazon vans and new SUVs.
This, I tell the EV crowd all the time. The EV crowd, seems to be made up of rich and wealthy individuals, because they all seem to believe that the average person can just go out and buy a new 40K vehicle. Reality is that most people could not even afford it, if it was 10K. So the idea that auto makers is throwing their full behind this nonsense is crazy.
Yeah and recently GM has decided they might stop making the "affordable" EVs in favor of the expensive SUVs/Truck hybrids. There's so much more margin in the large items...they can't figure out how to sell EV cars profitably yet.
Tesla has been making EV's the longest. They have the longest range, and even great reliability. My friend just traded his 2018 Tesla 3 on a new one. His 2018 reached 127,000 miles with not one single problem. Most problems with Tesla's are build quality, with less than perfect paint jobs.
You're off-base in that Tesla benefitted from federal and lo al subsidies to get going, and to keep the EV market going on the early days. So Musk saying "time to end the subsidies" is just self-interest in not wanting a competitive market against Tesla. The government has subsidized the ICE market in many ways for many years. There are goals for EV adoption, but there isn't an enforceable mandate, really.
Tesla paid back theirs very quickly and they have provided thousands of jobs/income in comparison. They also weren’t starting out with billions in profit from legacy.
@TheCarGuyOnline They paid back their preferred loan quickly, but they have greatly benefitted from billions in California's indirect and direct subsidies. I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, but it's off-base to point to the subsidies in Column A and not talk about subsidies in Columns B and C. Tesla also got a carve-out for direct to consumer sales, a major cost advantage.
@@lumberjeff0 I'm not saying Tesla didn't get subsidies, I'm trying to point out that they are a proper example of how subsidies are designed to be used effectively. If a company abuses the subsidies and they don't create jobs/don't deliver/can't build profitable vehicles, it's a huge fail and burden on people who shouldn't have to fund it, but if you can do all of those things, at least the goal of the subsidies was accomplished. I still personally think we should not be subsidizing anything, I think it would reduce vehicle complexity, it would keep companies more honest, and they'd be force to create more quality products. Our Government stretches way too far and wide, we are so far from a true capitalistic format it's beyond help.
@TheCarGuyOnline I agree with you on a number of things here, but I want to point out the US has never been a true, pure capitalist system. Giveaways to railroads, trade protections, yadda yadda - our government has been highly involved in markets from the jump. States have given automakers incredible subsidies, competing against each other for factories for decades. It's a lot like how cities have to give away the store on stadiums to keep pro sports teams in town. I do wish there was more will of us voters to demand consistency on what private companies can extort from governments in the form of market advantages. Tax breaks, subsidies can be designed to achieve better outcomes, for sure. But I don't know that Tesla is going to be looking like the shining example of a good outcome long-term.
What are y'all, some townies? China is literally half the Global auto market, all by themselves. 25-30% of all new car sales there are EVs, and BYD has become the world leader in EV sales. BYD literally makes EVs cheaper than US ICE cars. EVs aren't a fad, and the global sales metrics prove that. So do we invest in US Auto companies via tax dollars/subsidies or let them get obliterated in the free market? All the loses we see from GM and Ford EV infrastructure is to be expected. Tesla only recently started profiting from the sale of its cars. Through most of Tesla's existence, it survived on selling Green Credits.
I've seen more Ford failures (Warranty) in the last few years. Brand new vehicles with non-working parts and failing "turbo" engineering. No Thank you.
I’m moderate on EVs, just still skeptical of the charging infrastructure. (Although in my small ish city in the south of 300k people there are now a number of Sheetz with superchargers, and more and more Teslas popping up in conservative areas) Elon is…Elon but Tesla really has done something incredible. EVs won’t be for the majority of the US, (need more sensible plug in hybrids) but as a 2nd car for around town I think they make total sense. - A Gen 2 Tundra owner that was almost a Gen 3 Tundra owner 😅
Yes ! EVs and priced cheaper than most of the big 3s Trucks. Dodge is close to being sold to another company AGAIN , with tons of inventory on lots from 2022 to 2025 models.
I agree, if they (BYD) do, they'll completely takeover the commuter/compact market at the current price they have. It might be good to have some healthy competition again.
Wrong! The politicians are the ones creating these problems with their ridiculous, unscientific mandates! The auto industry is being forced into making bad decisions by the Dems!
I have zero sympathy for these car manufacturers
I'm with you.
L😂L
The strikers were asking for unreasonable raises. So I don't feel sorry for the workers either.
My issue with Ford losing a billion dollars in one quarter on EVs is the company has to raise prices on ICE powered trucks to subsidize the loss.
Yeah it’s pretty ridiculous. Prices will come down soon…at least that’s my prediction
They didn't need to build their own EVs when you have non union American start-ups with more experience with EVs.
EVs are not the answer. I had one. Couldn't wait to get rid of it.
I agree it's not the answer for Ford/GM etc. I don't think EVs are the answer to everything, but they serve a small purpose. They are better for running around town/small things IMO, but not nearly as good at other things I use ICE for.
@@TheCarGuyOnline Only way, they are better for running around town is if you got a charger at home. Something that the majority of people just don't have. Home ownership itself, is quickly becoming a fantasy for most Americans.
@@craigfin3222 I agree. Home prices are similar to car prices, only for the top earners at this point. There needs to be a huge correction in the market and....they need to prevent large private equity groups from buying real estate and renting it.
@@craigfin3222 I live in the NorthEast and we have charging stations at Walmarts,Wawa,Sheets,Walgreens,Royal Farms and other random stops. No problems here.
biden / UAW to blame!
Good video and info! AI/Robots will take many human jobs in the coming years. Need more manufacturers that make vehicles in the $20K-$30K range.
China has some insanely priced EVs that would work for city folks but...they probably won't allow those in here without huge tariffs.
You have to remember that the government will not allow companies outside the States to under sell American companies. They make good quality vehicles for well under 30k outside the U.S. Polestar,Toyota,Subaru,Mini, Fiat and all rebranded Chinese EVs sold in the States at twice the cost in China.
@@outkast40 The less mobility you have, the easier you are to control. just my opinion.
Another example of Government overreach
Yep
They dropped all their inexpensive new car lines like Focus, Sonic, etc. Only sell big cars that are all very expensive. Stupid and bad strategy.
Why does Tesla make money? No UAW.
Definitely a part of it.
Complicated topic but I think you summed it up nicely. Vertical integration is the key to success with EV vehicles. Building them with the same suppliers using the same techniques will not yield the savings required. Agree 100% on the use case...a vehicle is a tool...pick the right tool for your needs / application. There is a place for EV, Hybrid and ICE vehicles in the market...no need to subsidize the development. Lastly, there should be stronger consequences for government loans and incentives...companies should issue bonds to cover the costs...taxpayers can't be on the hook for everything.
Hey CGO, really enjoy your videos. Very informative, factual and data based. The ROI on these EV subsidies looks pretty abysmal and the mandates/regulations appear to be hurting the big 3 as well.
The strikers were asking for unreasonable raises. So I don't feel sorry for the workers either.
Elon said even every car marker did nothing but EVs, be about 80-100 million a year cars produced. It would take at least 25 years to replace every car in the world.
I hadn't heard those numbers but it would be a LOT of vehicles to try to replace current ICE.
Tesla didn't turn a profit for many yrs. The difference is as mentioned in supply chains, no UAW and the ability to raise or lower sticker prices quickly. The big 3 are bloated antiques that are being forced to enter the EV field and they are finding that the demand really isn't there yet, despite mandates. They can't sell what there isn't the market volume for. They're used to selling hundreds of thousands of vehicles a yr, each, at a fraction of what it costs to make an EV. If they go full EV, they can kiss all that goodbye.
Thank you for being a true Y Tube reporter and telling it like it really is.
No stone throwing here ! Your take on EVs is right on ...an EV for day to day tasks and a "reliable" ice vehicle for trailering. We are all paying too much for new vehicles and the industry isnt listening. Almost hate to say it but a Ford guy for 40 yrs but now like Toyotas because Im rarely back to dealerships for fixes. A little house cleaning for management at the big 3 is in order.
100%. The older Toyotas I've got have been extremely reliable for me, I don't have any newer than 2011 though...but still, great luck with the old guard. I haven't jumped on any of the new Toyotas yet but....eventually I'll have to pick something.
GM and Ford should have outsourced to Geely and BYD to build EVs that main Americans can afford . Dodge and Chrysler maybe purchased by BYD and they will really be in trouble. But its sad that the big 3 didn't support Rivian with outsourced parts. We now have VW investing in Rivian as they continue to push out Amazon vans and new SUVs.
Tesla wasn’t profitable w EVs for a while and then became profitable, it’ll happen the same way most likely for all other OEMs
This, I tell the EV crowd all the time. The EV crowd, seems to be made up of rich and wealthy individuals, because they all seem to believe that the average person can just go out and buy a new 40K vehicle. Reality is that most people could not even afford it, if it was 10K. So the idea that auto makers is throwing their full behind this nonsense is crazy.
Not to mention, we know now that EVs are not the environmental saviors that they were made out to be.
Yeah and recently GM has decided they might stop making the "affordable" EVs in favor of the expensive SUVs/Truck hybrids. There's so much more margin in the large items...they can't figure out how to sell EV cars profitably yet.
They make EVs for under 20 thousand dollars with over 300 mile range that the government won't allow in the States to protect the big 3.
Bought a new Chevy Bolt in 2021 for $23k with no tax credits. Cheap EVs have always been available. You just have pay attention.
@@Cakebattered Toyota Corolla EV available in China for under 23k also.
Tesla has been making EV's the longest. They have the longest range, and even great reliability. My friend just traded his 2018 Tesla 3 on a new one. His 2018 reached 127,000 miles with not one single problem. Most problems with Tesla's are build quality, with less than perfect paint jobs.
Great video man with plenty of unique insight
Great video as always
You're off-base in that Tesla benefitted from federal and lo al subsidies to get going, and to keep the EV market going on the early days. So Musk saying "time to end the subsidies" is just self-interest in not wanting a competitive market against Tesla.
The government has subsidized the ICE market in many ways for many years. There are goals for EV adoption, but there isn't an enforceable mandate, really.
Tesla paid back theirs very quickly and they have provided thousands of jobs/income in comparison. They also weren’t starting out with billions in profit from legacy.
@TheCarGuyOnline They paid back their preferred loan quickly, but they have greatly benefitted from billions in California's indirect and direct subsidies. I'm not saying you're 100% wrong, but it's off-base to point to the subsidies in Column A and not talk about subsidies in Columns B and C. Tesla also got a carve-out for direct to consumer sales, a major cost advantage.
@@lumberjeff0 I'm not saying Tesla didn't get subsidies, I'm trying to point out that they are a proper example of how subsidies are designed to be used effectively. If a company abuses the subsidies and they don't create jobs/don't deliver/can't build profitable vehicles, it's a huge fail and burden on people who shouldn't have to fund it, but if you can do all of those things, at least the goal of the subsidies was accomplished. I still personally think we should not be subsidizing anything, I think it would reduce vehicle complexity, it would keep companies more honest, and they'd be force to create more quality products. Our Government stretches way too far and wide, we are so far from a true capitalistic format it's beyond help.
@TheCarGuyOnline I agree with you on a number of things here, but I want to point out the US has never been a true, pure capitalist system. Giveaways to railroads, trade protections, yadda yadda - our government has been highly involved in markets from the jump.
States have given automakers incredible subsidies, competing against each other for factories for decades. It's a lot like how cities have to give away the store on stadiums to keep pro sports teams in town. I do wish there was more will of us voters to demand consistency on what private companies can extort from governments in the form of market advantages. Tax breaks, subsidies can be designed to achieve better outcomes, for sure. But I don't know that Tesla is going to be looking like the shining example of a good outcome long-term.
No a management problem. Ford quit bestsellers as the Mondeo, Focus, Fiesta, in Europe.....unbelievable thing to do.
Then, who?
Well, it’s also because inflation is high and the economy is tanking…..
Stop looking at the charts. Kaizan walk is the left for the dead. What the factory needs is a true Grit. Quality
I WISH THE GOVERNMENT WOULD GIVE ME $ BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN GRANT MONEY TO PRODUCE NOTHING, NADA, ZELCH. I'D BE ON HAPPY INDIVIDUAL.
You think that's crazy look up how much intel got from the "chips act" and look at how many they just let go in a layoff.
New cars are way to expensive. And to complicated to fix.
What are y'all, some townies? China is literally half the Global auto market, all by themselves. 25-30% of all new car sales there are EVs, and BYD has become the world leader in EV sales. BYD literally makes EVs cheaper than US ICE cars. EVs aren't a fad, and the global sales metrics prove that. So do we invest in US Auto companies via tax dollars/subsidies or let them get obliterated in the free market? All the loses we see from GM and Ford EV infrastructure is to be expected. Tesla only recently started profiting from the sale of its cars. Through most of Tesla's existence, it survived on selling Green Credits.
Not to pick nits too much, but tax payers fund Tesla as well.
I've seen more Ford failures (Warranty) in the last few years. Brand new vehicles with non-working parts and failing "turbo" engineering. No Thank you.
Yeah quality is not great with Ford, and seems all manufacturers are going the same route.
I’m moderate on EVs, just still skeptical of the charging infrastructure. (Although in my small ish city in the south of 300k people there are now a number of Sheetz with superchargers, and more and more Teslas popping up in conservative areas) Elon is…Elon but Tesla really has done something incredible. EVs won’t be for the majority of the US, (need more sensible plug in hybrids) but as a 2nd car for around town I think they make total sense. - A Gen 2 Tundra owner that was almost a Gen 3 Tundra owner 😅
I agree, they have their place. Great for town and 90% of things
EV is the just convenient scape goat. The real crime is have trucks priced 60k-85k. Thats why no one is buying
Yes ! EVs and priced cheaper than most of the big 3s Trucks. Dodge is close to being sold to another company AGAIN , with tons of inventory on lots from 2022 to 2025 models.
I don't think Legacy auto will ever find success with EV's. They should stick to ICE. It's like Kodak doing Digital Cameras.
Many people like myself are perfectly happy with gas GM vehicles
Watch BYD; if they buy Chrysler and or Dodge they can build EVs here and bypass China tarrifs. Likely a potential game changer.
I agree, if they (BYD) do, they'll completely takeover the commuter/compact market at the current price they have. It might be good to have some healthy competition again.
Good thing is they cant dump products here like there crap from china. With higher labor costs regulations etc they would be fair competition.
stick to reporting on Toyota failures and stay away from political commentary
Wrong! The politicians are the ones creating these problems with their ridiculous, unscientific mandates! The auto industry is being forced into making bad decisions by the Dems!
It's not political commentary.
I didn't see/hear anything overly political. Don't you want to know where your tax dollars are going, and how much waste is involved?
@@adamtrombino106 not on this channel. I get that from a million other places