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Hey Wes hammer sir. I know sponsorships are important but established titles is a proven scam, well not scam but it's not an honest sale pitch. Lots of youtubers are starting to be harassed for partnering with them. I'm not telling or suggesting you stop using them I'm just warning you that people might not take kindly to such a partnership and might start harassing you. If that does happen sorry about the community, harassing others is rarely a good thing. 99% of the time it's bad. Stay safe sir and great video, looking forward to more.
@@TheIcelandicBoy at the risk of sounding like an heretic, the Emperor is the worst dad ever! Can't blame his spouse for exiling her kids out of Terra seeing what a jumble he did of the whole thing. Then again, hindsight is always 20/20. Perhaps the Emperor has already decided all of our fates like he did with the Mecanicum... my brain is melting... too much alcohol or too much Inquisition...
“but we surrender.” morty: “damn. anyways. not my problem.” *1 year later* “but we surrender.” morty: “sure. just no really bad sorcery.” “ok” *20 minutes later* morty: “you son of a bitch.”
Horus was like "che-check it out Morty. Killing lots of people is wrong *burp* you should be ashamed of yourself Morty." And Mortarious replied -" Oh jeez Horus I was like you know trying to liberate this planet you know. Like freedom and stuff"
I all seriousness, I think it's because the disposition of the Nightlords was well understood, so they were only deployed where their particular brand of cruelty was deemed... appropriate. Mortarion didn't just act with exceptional cruelty, he did so entirely unprompted in a campaign his Death Guard were not supposed to be involved in.
@@screamingcactus1753 the real reason is that while they were cruel, the night lords caused the Least amount of death and destruction because they used fear as their weapon, they were allowed to go crazy sometimes because for the vast majority of the time they took an entire planet with 2-3 very public and very brutal deaths. Mortarion just exterminated
Well I mean it's the logical conclusion. It's not a what aboutism because they're literally on the same side. His entire point is we have past precedent for similar actions with no repercussions. So what exactly is different about my situation that makes it bad but the prior fine and dandy. As they are upset in the tactic and not that he acted out of pocket.
that's why the Great Crusade is so funny on a meta level. Any time someone like Rowboat or the Emperor is tlaking about making the galaxy better i mentally imagine a servant interrupting "sir the Night Lords say they need another shipment of flaying knives, barbed wire and meat hooks"
When he said "there is no terms, i simply came to destroy you and you can do whatever you want with that" i felt that, it is always my policy when starting wars in stellaris, planetfall, or civilization.
Mortarion is my favourite Traitor Primarch and I'm glad to see he's getting some attention. I love the way Mortarion became what he hated in his moment of weakness during that fateful flight to Terra,truly showing how corrupting Chaos is.
@@georgespence705 Oh that scene is what cemented Mortarion as my favourite Traitor Primarch and truly demonstrated how corrupting the influence of Chaos is. Nobody is safe from it's influence
It's like how the Phoenician became horribly tainted, despite being the purest of the Space Marines, and the Marines who worshipped Big E and being among the most humane became some of the most twisted.
Sanguineous: Damn, that was pretty rough. Who do we observe next? Horus: (flips through datapad) Looks like... (Exhales deeply) *Angron* Both: *unsettled Primarch noises*
I do *genuinely* love that ending quote from Mortarion, as its a surprisingly nuanced take from someone who is in many ways, as defined by their rage as Angron is. Its an acknowledgement that his way is the right way, but that doesn't make it the only way. Its an admission that Horus and Goldie Locks weren't completely talking out of their ass when they spoke a year ago, but there was wisdom and necessity in all of their approaches. Viewed from another lense, its almost as if Mortarion is choosing in this moment to become the necessary shadow of the great crusade, choosing to dwell in the dark while his brothers can reign in the light.
He a knowledges that his approach isn’t a one size fits all but all understands the hypocrisy of his brothers, their flaws and that they too are not perfect. So ultimately he will bring death to those who deserve nothing more if he truly believes his brothers methods wouldn’t work.
@@draketurtle4169well as the saying goes it take some to know one in this case hypocrisy don’t get me wrong I love mortys character as with most primarchs but man he’s such a hypocrite
@@riven5677His hypocrisy is different as a lot of it is forced on him by circumstance same with how Dorn, Lion, and Corax were forced to use psykers in the Heresy despite censuring them Mortarion resorted to Chaos
I can't stress enough how you masterfully narrate this amazing stories, from the Watcher in the Rain to Mortarion's first crusade, you put so much passion into this that is always a treat to hear you speaking!
Right!? He has an amazing story telling gift that he uses wonderfully well. I feel like I’m literally in the Grimdark Universe. My favorite lore channel ever!
i truly do love the way the story contextualizes Horus himself, the great terrible betrayer, as the kindest and most compassionate of brothers, only trying to help Mortarion see the value of humanity, while the other Primarchs only insult him and his methods as barbaric. this shows that Horus legitimately at some point took the time to get to know and understand Mortarion and his worldview, wich is such an interesting take on him.
As the first Primarch found, Horus was less or more the big brother to all the other Primarchs. Helping several of them to get acquainted with the Imperium and Great Crusade.
@@mide2476 this just makes the heresy all that more nuanced, he believed so much in his farthers dream and wanted to see his brothers flourish with that dream… then someone started giving him nightmares of the future, a future that would only actually take fruit because of their doubts… they caused the thing they were trying to prevent.
@@draketurtle4169 and it's also terrible since by all acounts it could have been prevented had loken,toric or hell even abbadon noticed erebus treachery or even put together everything regarding the athame. If any of that happened,the mournival would have hunted erebus with no mercy for vengeance and hell they might have sought help
@@KungFuWizardOfJesus A lot of the primarchs, especially the traitors, have really tragic origin stories. I've always found Angron's origin to be the most tragic.
@@KungFuWizardOfJesus Mortarion was always brooding about something, like he had it so bad, but many Primarchs had rough origins, geez look at Angron. When I saw the above message about his tragic origin, I just wanted to mention it.
@@Malvok ye, anyone had the most tragic story but all the other primarchs apart from Morty, Horus, Alpharius and Angron never managed to completely conquerer their respective worlds. Mortarion in my opinion had the 2nd tragic backstory, nearly dying to his adopted father because the emperor pushed him too far.
This book truly does show the Dept of Mortarions character and how much of a Goddam tragedy his and many of the other traitor primarchs stories are. Demigods that fell because they where still human in a sense
@@donkface8509 When you think about this was kind of a similar idea to Libya or Iraq. The US saw Sadam or Ghadaffi similar to "The Order" they destroyed those countries in fire and lead. And took the heads off Ghadaffi and Sadam.
@@donkface8509 Nah, Mortarion was absolutely right to massacre The Order to a man. They completely dehumanized billions. There's only one sentence appropriate for that: death.
You know... Mortarion should have put more thought into what he did but.... its really hard to argue against him here. Funny enough his heart is in the right place
If Mortarion really care about Justice and freedom, he should've set up a tribunal for all the order after they surrender, instead of massacring them outright, let the people testified and let their side of the stories unfold and being heard, it would shows that morty trully bring justice and freedom, instead of just death Sanguinus and Horus didn't lament order's death, they lament how it is being done and what kind of message it brings to the population
For some reason I just love his attitude towards the Order. "I dont care what you do, Im here to kill you regardless." Such a power move, or maybe power...stance?
Gosh Wes, you just made me love Mortarion even more! When he said, "there is no terms, I simply came to destroy you and you can do whatever you want with that" Lmao reminds me of that one time I blitzkrieged my way through the vampire counts so that I would have no competition later on inside the Empire
I still adore that moment where The Order contacts Mortarion in an attempt to surrender to him and he refuses it. And as the battle goes on,the Death Guard and Mortarion refuses any and all attempts to surrender. I personally believe,The Order really had it coming to them and got karma'd in the form of bolter rounds and power scythes
@@theangryaustralian7624 Do not be afraid. The God-Emperor of Mankind is coming back in 2024 to lay waste to the oppressors. Rise up beside Him and be free.
It's hilariously ironic that morty hates psykers when he and all his brothers are literally minor warp gods and therefore the irony level is through the fucking roof.
The Order: *After seeing Mortarion Scythe through their Armies* We Surrender! Mortarion: Who? The Order: We Sur- Mortarion: Asked. *Continues Crusading*
I just finished reading (listening to) Mortarion's primarch novel yesterday. It honestly makes his fall to chaos seem waaaaaassy more reasonable than it had previously. Before it seemed like petulant grudge bearing, where as now that we have a look at The Pale King's thought process we can see it's a great shame he feels about failing to save his people. *SPOILERS!!* The vindication he receives from Digger at the end of the novel was as tozic for him as Barbarus ever was. He felt empowered that his decisions were correct, that any price to save or liberate people was worth paying. We can follow that thread, pretty clearly in my mind, to see without her vindication he may not have fallen to Nurgle's corruption.
No one despised civil corruption like them. Mortarion and Curze would never have allowed the High Lords of Terra to become as aloof and cruel as they are.
This was interesting to me. There’s that hint of why Nurgle’s principles and vision being incorporated into the Deathguard’s being. Foreshadowing and giving thematic weight to Mortarions fall to Nurgle.
In this moment. Mortarion was right. Mortarion spoke the language of the Overlord. He knew what it was like to crush those beneath your heal. Those who were deemed lesser and undeserving. Mortarion knew that the only language the Overlord spoke was violence and death. Then when death came for them they pleaded, they begged, they reached for understanding. They tried to appeal to his humanity whilst they denied the eons of the humanity of Labor Units. They didn’t see them as people. They saw them as Labor Units. Mortarion did the right thing by cutting the head off the snake. He did what he needed to do and I will never fault him for that. Kill the masters.
This was still one of the most beautiful stories I've heard and gives me great reapect for who Mortarion was before the turn. He knows he is a twisted poisonous thing. He knows exactly why he is the way he is. And he will not be judged by those of higher standing for doing the same thing that other do daily. Kind of like when the kid a bully picks on finally starts standing up for himself and compleatly decemates the bully that went unpunished for so long and NOW everyone wants to get involved after the fact.
Can you imagine if Mortarion had stayed loyal and had come back after 10k years the way Guilleman did? Guilleman saw the state of things after 10k years and was disgusted, depressed, "Look what they've made of our dream" and "better that we had all burned," etc. A loyal, returned Mortarion would have seen hive cities and the Inquisition and the High Lords and instead of taking up the task of Imperial Regent and waging the Indomitus Crusade, Morty would have cleaned house and straight up rebelled against the powers that be.
If he was anti-Chaos in this loyal timeline, i think he would have to bite his tongue and wait to do any major reforms. Priorities would be the clusterfuck of that galaxy.
Loved the video. Too many lore channels take a wiki/encyclopedic approach. But I think you ground it in the books much more and appreciate the value of the narrative beyond just lists of information and do a great job portraying that.
Thanks! That's what I try to go for. I love the books and I think I lot is lost when the small moments and character interactions get left out of lore videos.
Mortarion is a badass idk how big his fleet against the galaspar planet was but rigging giant meteors to block ordinance then detonating them in atmosphere to rain hell death upon the planet is metal asf
Dude this is EXACTLY what I was looking and hoping for! I am so glad that was NOT yet another retelling of Morty and the E meeting for the first time. I am looking for stories about the Primarchs where they are these amazing god-like beings that did the impossible. Stories that take place after rejoining the Emperor but before the Heresy.
Happy Thanksgiving, and thanks for this video today, Wes. I have been thinking about how little I know about Mortarion despite being an encyclopedia on every other primarch....and I realized it was time to learn. Could not have been a more perfect time to drop this video, on a lonely Thanksgiving in another city. Thanks again, Wes. I really, truly needed this.
Simply amazing. By the time this channel reach 1M, nah maybe even now, Weshammer is among the Top 10 Story Tellers of 40K. It's just, I have no words to describe this level of perfection, the narration, the voice, the data about the history, the highlight of important parts, the personification of some scenes as we were part of the story. The level of imagination you can achieve, the way you can visualize the action of the story with such purity like...I'm looking at a real animation. Again, I'm just speechless, this one has become one of my favorites videos of the channel. And if the style of story telling keeps evolving, well, I cannot imagine how *perfect* could it be. Cheers mate.
This story and you telling it is the reason I got into Warhammer. I was a super death guard fan after watching this video. The brutality of Mortarion just spoke to me lol. I’m more of an orc guy though now, but this video has a special place in my heart. Thanks, Wes!!
Truly excellent storytelling and well narrated. These kinds of in-depth stories about individual crusades and the history of specific planets are extremely interesting and show a high level of creativity in worldbuilding. I would definitely love to see more videos like this, especially as it is a character exposition for Mortarion. I guess I just love military history in general... but space military history, that's the real stuff man.
"You don't wanna make a deal with that guy, Morty. [BURP] He's just gonna give you a strange disease, Morty." "My name's MORTARION, and I have a new grandpa now!"
Order: "What are your terms?" Morty: "Terms? lmao" Order: "I'm afraid I don't understand..." Morty: "Fresh outta terms, sorry" Order: "B b b but I'm trying to negotiate our surrender..y'know, standard procedure in War" Morty: "We're not on the same page are we?"
Attacking a Hive seems to be a thing that could take decades to finish there it would be almost impossible to use use artillery or tanks once you get into the hive it self so it would be a massive foot slog
@@diamondvikingcrypto5369 It doesn't make sense since Hives have Billions of people living in thim in building structures that reach orbit any army that attacked would receive unbearable attrition
@@diamondvikingcrypto5369 it isn't really the void shields on hive worlds make bombardment all but impossible (unless the writer just decides void shields aren't a thing in this story)
He was an unstoppable force of nature against the cruel and tyrannical, nothing could slow him nothing could stop him and he would always win the war. But Nurgle veing what he is, only makes sense Mortarion of all people became his champion, he had an indomitable will and motiv, and when he turned to nurgle he let himself rot in his own apathetic careless, in a sense he let himself roll over and give up and stayed down. Poetic as usual, Primarchs
as savage as the world eaters are in their killing and leaving noone alive behind, the coldness of morty and his boys killing are a step further as it is cold and calculated
Baldy did an amazing story of the death guard a Sargent who was crass basically him and Morty go in to a drinking contest. The Sargent droppin his glass and asking for more and more while locked in a staring contest with his primarch. Go check it out it's truly amazing
I started my love for this as a believer in the imperium, as I am shown more through your incredibly extensive videos I’m leaning more towards chaos. Mortarion was right, mercy is for the weak
This is officially one of my favorite stories. I love that both horus/sanguinius and mortarion were all right in there own ways. That on one hand the people were indeed traumatized and it would be a ludicrous task to fix this world now, but that sometimes in the face of true obscenity and evil, complete annihilation is the only real option, and that were must sometimes take the more painful path to reach our true goal without concession. Plus the "we surrender" "not my problem" was both hilarious and chilling simultaneously.
As another note, love to see the differences and similarities between then and now and what the corruption of nurgle has done to him through his strategies. In his pre chaos days he was ruthless sure, but his massacres offered one mercy, expediency. Now his death guard drags things out, allows the enemy to suffer, and makes it a slow, painful process.
A video on the most underrated Necron. Anrakyr the Traveler would be awesome. Because we have a reason to include him in practically very army list due to recent addition of new Broken heavy weapons that everyone is dreading but I see it as an opportunity for Anrakyr to "appropriate" the weapons for his amusement.
You know I really feel for morti with the whole. "That motherfucker over there is killing kids on tv nobody bats an eye. I kill a tyrant on tv and im the bad guy?" Vibe he had going
Things I'm Thankful for this Thanksgiving... My family, including Grandfather Nurgle WesHammer's videos GW so graciously taking the money I'd use for feeding my family Happy Thanksgiving all!
I’ve been following these stories since the days that rogue trader became 2nd Edition, and one problem I’ve always had with Mortarion as his story came to light was that his worldview was exactly that: a philosophy taken from his experiences on Barbarus. Poison this, death that, suffering the other. And yet he was able to see that Barbarus was an aberration, a unique world in an ocean of unique worlds, each of them offering other viewpoints. And not once did he ever engage with it. Instead, he repeatedly chose to double down on his own bad takes. In short, I always found him to be possessed of an incredibly facile mind, myopic in the extreme and more concerned with his own fatalism being exemplified than he was with doing his goddamn job. He wanted so desperately to be proven right - that life is pain and all else is a falsehood - that he buggered everything up for himself, his legion and his brothers. Don’t get me wrong, many of the primarchs wind me up with their stupidity and self-indulgence, but I’ve always had a deep distaste for Mortarion. For all his avowed strength and durability, he was remarkably weak-minded. He was damned out of his own complacency and philosophical indolence, and he contributed to ruining the galaxy for absolutely everyone due to his stupid, stubborn bullishness. In short, Horus’s rebuke (and more even than that, the condemnation offered by Sanguinius, and Mort’s viewing of the deathly wasteland he left as being somehow beautiful) at the end of the tale is entirely correct and predicted what happened in the following years. (And I fully realise that this will be a deeply unpopular take on a Morty video! It is just an opinion, bear in mind, and not only that, but the opinion of an old Grognard who’s probably a bit stuck in his ways! I don’t say I’m *right* with all of this; just that it is how I see Mortarion!) All of that aside, I should say that this is a remarkable job of telling the tale on a remarkable channel. You have a new subscriber, boss. Keep this up, and may your dice favour you!
@@TheHandofDestiny absolutely. I’m not criticising the characterisation at all. And to be honest, such a nihilistic and stagnant personality is a natural fit for Nurgle, too.
I'm not gonna disagree with you at all; I think you hot the nail on the head. It seems the traitor primarchs were the architect of their own demise in each situation; but Morty's downward spiral is painfully ironic and wasteful.
Uh, that's because Mortarion has obvious PTSD and should never been given a legion in the first place. But you know, the Emperor is a superhuman space Nazi and wasn't winning any father of the year awards so that's how that song and dance went.
@@dewaynemcclure that’s… a little bit of an oversimplification. For two main reasons. 1) PTSD is absolutely not an explanation for why Mortarion behaved the way he did. I have (managed) PTSD myself, and I can tell you that it makes someone vulnerable in situations that they should not feel vulnerable in, and destroys any sense of control over your own life. What it does not do, is inculcate an entirely nihilistic philosophy that drives you to commit genocide, or a superiority complex that only you are right, only you are pure and only you are strong. It literally does the precise and exact opposite of that. It does not explain anything about Mortarion’s psychotic behaviour. If you said “Mortarion is a complete nihilistic sociopath”, I’d agree. He has PTSD? Not so much. Not at all, in fact. 2) it also doesn’t explain the disconnect between 1) the fact that Primarchs are NOT human, supposedly able to endure things (physically and psychologically) that no mortal could endure as part of the very fabric of their being, and 2) the assertion that he, of all the primarchs alone, got PTSD as a result of his upbringing. Night Haunter didn’t have PTSD. Perturabo didn’t have PTSD. None of the others did. What some of them DID have, though, is a sociopathic tendency to believe that they had a better way of ordering society, which was stoked and exploited by Chaos. I’m sorry, but the PTSD argument is not a sound one. It doesn’t really reflect what PTSD is or how it works (unless we also assume that the BL writers don’t do any basic research) and is little more than a massive leap of assumption made to handwave away what is just horrible behaviour by sociopaths. Just so we are clear: I am referring to the PTSD argument here, and not attacking you personally. However, I do find your causal presumption as to whether or not I might have given this chap some thought over the past thirty five years a little bit… odd. Most of the other primarchs “had PTSD” by that logic. Not all of them turned into Mortarion.
I love how they judge Mortarion's actions but fail to provide a better alternative other than attrition, yes, there where clear flaws on how Mortarion handled that situation, but there is one truth in all of this: The people of Galaspar needed liberation, and Mortarion was the only one determined to give them that
I'm pretty sure they didn't actually care about the assault focus (Horus was known for the exact same kind of tactic), they were more at issue with the fact that nothing had been done to disavow the people of Galaspar from seeing the Imperium as a new caste of masters to serve. They'd probably be less dismayed if he wasn't upfront about intending to leave the rebuilding/re-education to other people.
@@Ariaelyne They still didn't offer any better alternatives and kept judging his decision to kill all of the order and leave the masses to the Imperium to deal with The irony here is probably that there isn't any better alternative and none of them realize that, the Imperium is just as shitty as those who governed Galaspar, the people will keep being oppressed, *MAYBE* a little less so, still, the cycle is still in motion, perhaps just as Nurgle wants it
@@Ariaelyne I would agree if not for the fact that the Emperor would explicitly want the Space Marines not to take part in the re-education, as he made very clear with Lorgar. Emperor was never a fan of Lorgars faith but did nothing about it until it slowed down his crusade. Of all the Legions, the Word Bearers were actually the best at integrating worlds into compliance smoothly, but the Emperor wanted his space marines for Crusading and had other people for compliance, he could not abide what he saw as a waste of time.
32:20 the interaction of Horus, Sanguinius , and Mortarion saddens me. Not for Mortarion nor Sanguinius, but Horus. He had humility, love, and brotherhood bound within him and it was stolen away by the dark gods. He would've brought the greater imperium together, united his brothers, and made the galaxy a better place. Would be nice if GW would produce a fractal of 40k book series that showed the Imperium if the Heresy never happened. I can see Angron and Mortarion would still defect or leave the Imperium, but it would all together be better than being divided.
I think when the Emperor created the Primarchs and their legions he knew exactly what he was doing. Different wars and different worlds required different tactics and approaches. That's why he had each legion specialize in certain areas, and the Primarchs furthered this specialization even further when they were reunited with their legions. I find it interesting that the majority of the legions that had very specific specializations are the ones that rebelled. Not all, but certainly most. Was it their single minded view on how wars were to be waged that made them vulnerable, or did that just make them easier for Horus to manipulate and control?
You sure about that? I certainly see some truth, but there are specialists on Imp side: Jaggy-Khan and Ferus Manus for example... And I wouldn't say Fulgrim was a specialist, more that he was forced to be a rapier not an axe when he had so few marines left. On the other hand, his ethos is so close to SheWhoThirsts I do wonder if, assuming primarch creation involved taking a piece of Chaos to use like clay, he got a daemonette heavy sample
@@auricstorm it's just a thought and I did say most, not all. The Imperials still have the Khan, as you point out, as well as Corvis, the stealth specialist and Dorn, the defense specialist. I think the Emperor's Children are specialists in a way- they are perfectionists, to a fault. I agree that opened them up to Slanesh corruption, but is that because of the way they were designed or circumstances? We know the warp was involved in their making, for all the Primarchs, but I'm curious if the over specialization into specific tactics made the traitor Primarchs more vulnerable. If Angron for certain was primed for Khorne corruption the moment he was inflicted with the butcher's nails. I think you could argue the degree which the Emperor denied his divinity sent the Word Bearers on the path to chaos simply because they were a legion that needed something to believe in. Magnus's arrogance and the degree to which they used sorcery certainly doomed the Thousand Sons, but did it have to end that way?
The Death Guard pre-heresy is so brutal and relentless, it's no wonder they passed to Chaos XD Like, Horus or Fulgrim, it was probably a surprise, but Mortarion, the Emperor was probably "How did you managed to stay that long without treason?" XD
Wes you've got a great reputation amongst the community never stop doing these! i look forward to these all week but can you maybe do some more ork stuff? i have to say that was my favourite of yours so far, well that and tryzan. +
Mortarion is not my favourite Primarck in fact I would say he is one of my least favourite, however this story show's a part of him that I don't really see being discussed by the fandom, that he views himself as bringer of freedom, a champion of the oppressed and a destroyer of the oppressors yet at the same time it showed one of his biggest flaws the fact that he doesn't truly understand freedom and it is understandable: his early life was spent as the slave of a necromancer then when he got rid of that instead of living a free life he went and became the leader of the people of Barbarus and although I understand why he did this it ultimately lead him to never learning what means to be truly free, he went from being used to using others in a very small amount of time with never knowing what is in the inbetween and the Emperor's arrival only made it worsh, both because Mortarion doesn't know the difference between saving and kill stealing and because Mortarion now had an even greater force under his command a force that would follow him without question, again this all was done with the absolute best intentions in mind but it ultimately lead him down the path that we see in this book, not only did he commit utter genocide to the Order which would have quite surely included the members of it that were too young to have participated in their depravity but he then goes and ORDER'S the former labor units to pile up the bodies, the sheer amount/variety of phycological damage of that is beyond my comprehension, and there is the crescendo of the story when he basically demands from a planet to completely forgot everything about their culture, values and practices because he simply wanted them to do so which is like THE most dictatorial thing ever only for him to blow them up later because they didn't instantly abandond their who knows how many generations of traditions at his request. The interesting thing about this is the fact that if you know him you also know why he is like that, he commands and order exclusively because he's adoptive "father" only commanded and ordered him, he was then surrounded by people that would not raise an objection to him out of a compilations of respect, admiration and fear. If anything I think that this is a far more interesting side of Mortarion than the 'I hate phycers but I'm also a phycer and a massive hypocrite at top'. He is a confused freedom fighter that never truly learned the point and meaning of true freedom.
He used to view himself as such. Now he lives in a chaos planet and rules over slaves toiling in nurglic valleys, which is just a horrific image to even picture. Ironically he's become the exact same type of tyrants that used to rule his own planet.
You would think a siege would have annihilated the worker population before the tyrants, the direct approach sounds like the best way to reduce innocent casualties
well by the time the poison dagger was already controlling his mind. it's not like he wants to wage war with the imperium, that's why when the emps blasted the 4 gods out of horus, he came to his senses immediately
Just wanted to shout out a big "thank you" for putting out some amazing lore videos. I originally saw this video months ago, but I came back to add a comment after I've recently watched the Mortarion video from GWs Loremasters series, and I just have to say that I liked your video a lot more. I have really come to appreciate many of your alternative (if not slightly heretical) views of the various sides of chaos. It really makes a lot more sense why someone might turn to Nurgle or follow Mortarion. It's taken these characters to a far deeper level of character development than just the surface "ewww they're gross" that most give to the Deathguard.
Of all the stories I've heard you speak this one hits me at my heart. The death of the Tyrant and the end of suffering is necessary for freedom and liberation to spring eternal. Horus and Sanguinius are right in offering mercy to those who can be corrected and brought into the light, but some evil is absolute in its corruption. Sometimes the scythe is the only penance that can be offered to the condemned.
Mortarion slaying tyrants and uplifting the weak got censured yet Space Wolf massacreing the people they come to save and even fought alongside them got a slap on the wrist...
Phosphex Bomb remind me of Greek Fire but much stronger, for people who don't know what Greek Fire is, it's a Incendiary weapon used by the ancient greeks that spewed out liquid fire onto enemy ships and supposedly never went out. it's a Long lost weapon of war that has had it's recipes lost to time but people think it's like a crude but very effective version of Napalm. Supposedly the flames were green in color which is why I got reminded from the artwork used alongside the descriptions of the Phosphex bombs
While I understand where the hate for Morty is coming from, I don't share it personally, and I wish that they would focus more on him in writing: first of all, I find his philosophy on life as fascinating (he doesn't exactly put negative value on life, but his moral code, while leading to the same conclusion, is pretty much inverse of that of anyone else. That isn't to say that he is amoral: he *has* morals, they are just kinda...going other way?) and I always thought that he can be a target for great grim storytelling (def up there with Angron, given that Morty right now *IS* what he always hated, and that does not escape him fully. I wonder if we might get redemption-by-death from Morty at some point.)
Technically Mortarion isn't Nurgles champion, Typhus the Traveler. Actually, quick question are the Chaos Champions (Typhys, Lucius, Kharn, Ahriman) Daemon Princes? And if they aren't then why not? They are far more dedicated to their patron gods then their Primarchs so why not elevate them?
Thanks Established Titles for Sponsoring this video! Go to establishedtitles.com/wes10 to shop their Black Friday Sale, and get an additional 10% off when you use the promo code: WES10
Hey wes not sure if you've seen but established titles is making the rounds as a scam.
Scottish law does not allow land to be bought and sold this way. The company doesn't plant trees. Their site claims they donate to an organization that does but doesn't actually provide any evidence that they are donating. Established Titles is set up and ran from Hong Kong.
your not the only one to get caught up in it but ET is 100% a scam that has gotten a lot of other youtubers
Hey Wes hammer sir. I know sponsorships are important but established titles is a proven scam, well not scam but it's not an honest sale pitch. Lots of youtubers are starting to be harassed for partnering with them. I'm not telling or suggesting you stop using them I'm just warning you that people might not take kindly to such a partnership and might start harassing you. If that does happen sorry about the community, harassing others is rarely a good thing. 99% of the time it's bad. Stay safe sir and great video, looking forward to more.
Established titles is a scam, but i guess it's good you're getting money from the scammers.
Man Horus speaking to Mortarion at the end really cements for me how much of a real one Horus was and what a tremendous blow his fall really was.
Fucking Erebus and Lorgar
Also shows his hubris that eventually brought his downfall. He's so sure of his right...
@@Feralzen That can apply to ALL the Primarchs. And double so for the Emperor.
He was so sad and pissed when he had to go war with the Interex. Fucking erabus is the worst
@@TheIcelandicBoy at the risk of sounding like an heretic, the Emperor is the worst dad ever! Can't blame his spouse for exiling her kids out of Terra seeing what a jumble he did of the whole thing. Then again, hindsight is always 20/20. Perhaps the Emperor has already decided all of our fates like he did with the Mecanicum... my brain is melting... too much alcohol or too much Inquisition...
“but we surrender.”
morty: “damn. anyways. not my problem.”
*1 year later*
“but we surrender.”
morty: “sure. just no really bad sorcery.”
“ok”
*20 minutes later*
morty: “you son of a bitch.”
I can only hear that in Morty Smith’s voice
🤣
Order spokesperson: But we don't want to fight anymore! We want to surrender!
Mortguire: I missed the part where that's my problem
Horus was like "che-check it out Morty. Killing lots of people is wrong *burp* you should be ashamed of yourself Morty."
And Mortarious replied
-" Oh jeez Horus I was like you know trying to liberate this planet you know. Like freedom and stuff"
@@koichidignitythief7429 Mortarion Smith
Damn, Morti really threw out the *"Nightlords did it and aren't in trouble so why am I?"* line
Ikr, but but lil brother always gets to do it.
I all seriousness, I think it's because the disposition of the Nightlords was well understood, so they were only deployed where their particular brand of cruelty was deemed... appropriate. Mortarion didn't just act with exceptional cruelty, he did so entirely unprompted in a campaign his Death Guard were not supposed to be involved in.
@@screamingcactus1753 the real reason is that while they were cruel, the night lords caused the Least amount of death and destruction because they used fear as their weapon, they were allowed to go crazy sometimes because for the vast majority of the time they took an entire planet with 2-3 very public and very brutal deaths.
Mortarion just exterminated
Well I mean it's the logical conclusion. It's not a what aboutism because they're literally on the same side. His entire point is we have past precedent for similar actions with no repercussions. So what exactly is different about my situation that makes it bad but the prior fine and dandy. As they are upset in the tactic and not that he acted out of pocket.
that's why the Great Crusade is so funny on a meta level. Any time someone like Rowboat or the Emperor is tlaking about making the galaxy better i mentally imagine a servant interrupting "sir the Night Lords say they need another shipment of flaying knives, barbed wire and meat hooks"
When he said "there is no terms, i simply came to destroy you and you can do whatever you want with that" i felt that, it is always my policy when starting wars in stellaris, planetfall, or civilization.
Fo real fo real
😂😂😂
Man they more I read about mortarion, the more I feel like he's defintly top 3 primarchs for me what true badass
No tyrant shall survive, for the untold suffering caused they cannot and shallnot be permitted to live.
I always eliminate the tyrants in those games and assimilate the population and have them join us in one great union
Mortarion is my favourite Traitor Primarch and I'm glad to see he's getting some attention. I love the way Mortarion became what he hated in his moment of weakness during that fateful flight to Terra,truly showing how corrupting Chaos is.
That scene, in yet another fantastic Death Guard book, reminded me a lot of Davey Jones. Great character
@@georgespence705 Oh that scene is what cemented Mortarion as my favourite Traitor Primarch and truly demonstrated how corrupting the influence of Chaos is. Nobody is safe from it's influence
It's like how the Phoenician became horribly tainted, despite being the purest of the Space Marines, and the Marines who worshipped Big E and being among the most humane became some of the most twisted.
Hes my second favorite, Konrad Kurze is the number 1 for me
Angron and perty if loyalist the lion and sanguinis
Sanguineous: Damn, that was pretty rough. Who do we observe next?
Horus: (flips through datapad) Looks like... (Exhales deeply) *Angron*
Both: *unsettled Primarch noises*
I do *genuinely* love that ending quote from Mortarion, as its a surprisingly nuanced take from someone who is in many ways, as defined by their rage as Angron is. Its an acknowledgement that his way is the right way, but that doesn't make it the only way. Its an admission that Horus and Goldie Locks weren't completely talking out of their ass when they spoke a year ago, but there was wisdom and necessity in all of their approaches. Viewed from another lense, its almost as if Mortarion is choosing in this moment to become the necessary shadow of the great crusade, choosing to dwell in the dark while his brothers can reign in the light.
Well said
He a knowledges that his approach isn’t a one size fits all but all understands the hypocrisy of his brothers, their flaws and that they too are not perfect. So ultimately he will bring death to those who deserve nothing more if he truly believes his brothers methods wouldn’t work.
@@draketurtle4169 Correct, there are no winners in war. Mortarion understands this.
@@draketurtle4169well as the saying goes it take some to know one in this case hypocrisy don’t get me wrong I love mortys character as with most primarchs but man he’s such a hypocrite
@@riven5677His hypocrisy is different as a lot of it is forced on him by circumstance same with how Dorn, Lion, and Corax were forced to use psykers in the Heresy despite censuring them Mortarion resorted to Chaos
I can't stress enough how you masterfully narrate this amazing stories, from the Watcher in the Rain to Mortarion's first crusade, you put so much passion into this that is always a treat to hear you speaking!
Right!? He has an amazing story telling gift that he uses wonderfully well. I feel like I’m literally in the Grimdark Universe. My favorite lore channel ever!
Moooore
i truly do love the way the story contextualizes Horus himself, the great terrible betrayer, as the kindest and most compassionate of brothers, only trying to help Mortarion see the value of humanity, while the other Primarchs only insult him and his methods as barbaric. this shows that Horus legitimately at some point took the time to get to know and understand Mortarion and his worldview, wich is such an interesting take on him.
As the first Primarch found, Horus was less or more the big brother to all the other Primarchs. Helping several of them to get acquainted with the Imperium and Great Crusade.
@@mide2476 this just makes the heresy all that more nuanced, he believed so much in his farthers dream and wanted to see his brothers flourish with that dream… then someone started giving him nightmares of the future, a future that would only actually take fruit because of their doubts… they caused the thing they were trying to prevent.
@@draketurtle4169 and it's also terrible since by all acounts it could have been prevented had loken,toric or hell even abbadon noticed erebus treachery or even put together everything regarding the athame. If any of that happened,the mournival would have hunted erebus with no mercy for vengeance and hell they might have sought help
I love mortarion. His tragic origin tale is my absolute favorite, and you so brilliantly narrated it in the deathguard video.
Mortarion's origin wasn't all that much worse than that of many of the other Primarchs.
@@Malvok what do you mean?
@@KungFuWizardOfJesus A lot of the primarchs, especially the traitors, have really tragic origin stories. I've always found Angron's origin to be the most tragic.
@@KungFuWizardOfJesus Mortarion was always brooding about something, like he had it so bad, but many Primarchs had rough origins, geez look at Angron. When I saw the above message about his tragic origin, I just wanted to mention it.
@@Malvok ye, anyone had the most tragic story but all the other primarchs apart from Morty, Horus, Alpharius and Angron never managed to completely conquerer their respective worlds. Mortarion in my opinion had the 2nd tragic backstory, nearly dying to his adopted father because the emperor pushed him too far.
I love how he has never really thought about rebuilding after a rebellion, because he never got to finish one on Barbarus
Mortarion sounds ABSOLUTE in his conviction. When he was speaking to his legion. Those people on that planet they were all already as good as dead.
This book truly does show the Dept of Mortarions character and how much of a Goddam tragedy his and many of the other traitor primarchs stories are. Demigods that fell because they where still human in a sense
I mean in this case, Mortarion showed he was more hard headed than Dorn, but I get your case
@@donkface8509 When you think about this was kind of a similar idea to Libya or Iraq. The US saw Sadam or Ghadaffi similar to "The Order" they destroyed those countries in fire and lead. And took the heads off Ghadaffi and Sadam.
@@Truthorfib yeah, the empire is very much the concept of American interventionism taken to its furthest extreme under the empire of mankind.
@@donkface8509 Nah, Mortarion was absolutely right to massacre The Order to a man. They completely dehumanized billions. There's only one sentence appropriate for that: death.
@@dewaynemcclureI agree. The Order got karma'd in the form of Mortarion's scythe
You know... Mortarion should have put more thought into what he did but.... its really hard to argue against him here. Funny enough his heart is in the right place
Which one?
@@juliane.mfarias9285 well played good sir
@@juliane.mfarias9285 Don’t Primarchs only have 1? I thought it was astartes that have 2.
@@dclangst dont know
If Mortarion really care about Justice and freedom, he should've set up a tribunal for all the order after they surrender, instead of massacring them outright, let the people testified and let their side of the stories unfold and being heard, it would shows that morty trully bring justice and freedom, instead of just death
Sanguinus and Horus didn't lament order's death, they lament how it is being done and what kind of message it brings to the population
I like how the Order is basically every hive city in 40k.
I’d say their worse
It is in the 30k though, so it's probably alot worse in comparison to the other hive cities at the time
Really puts into perspective why Mortarion wants to destroy the Imperium.
For some reason I just love his attitude towards the Order. "I dont care what you do, Im here to kill you regardless." Such a power move, or maybe power...stance?
Gosh Wes, you just made me love Mortarion even more!
When he said, "there is no terms, I simply came to destroy you and you can do whatever you want with that"
Lmao reminds me of that one time I blitzkrieged my way through the vampire counts so that I would have no competition later on inside the Empire
0iq llllolĺĺllllolllllllo
Really shows just how vast and varied the universe of 40k is, where both sides of a mutually exclusive argument are equally valid at the same time.
There isn't really both sides though. Parqsites should get the scythe, irl and in fiction alike. To oppose or question that is to stand with them.
I still adore that moment where The Order contacts Mortarion in an attempt to surrender to him and he refuses it. And as the battle goes on,the Death Guard and Mortarion refuses any and all attempts to surrender. I personally believe,The Order really had it coming to them and got karma'd in the form of bolter rounds and power scythes
I love this. "...but we want to surrender!" You can't. I came to destroy you. What you do is up to you, it's no concern of mine.
What a chad
Happy Thanksgiving to those that celebrate it! Thanks for the video, Wes!
Wait wait wait after everything you guys are still thankful?
@@theangryaustralian7624 40K is the worst possible reality to exist in. I'm thankful I'm here
@@theangryaustralian7624 how bad is Australia atm?? Lol
@@theangryaustralian7624 Do not be afraid. The God-Emperor of Mankind is coming back in 2024 to lay waste to the oppressors. Rise up beside Him and be free.
It's hilariously ironic that morty hates psykers when he and all his brothers are literally minor warp gods and therefore the irony level is through the fucking roof.
Roof would be underestimatement
And the Khan had no problem rubbing it in
@@cockdepartment6610 ok so beyond the ceiling of existence.
It's not ironic to hate an aspect you deemed bad. It's not ironic for the weak to hate their lack of strength.
They didn't know but at the same time they stupidly never gave it much thought, especially considering how many of them were psykers.
The Order: *After seeing Mortarion Scythe through their Armies* We Surrender!
Mortarion: Who?
The Order: We Sur-
Mortarion: Asked. *Continues Crusading*
Lmaoo
I just finished reading (listening to) Mortarion's primarch novel yesterday. It honestly makes his fall to chaos seem waaaaaassy more reasonable than it had previously. Before it seemed like petulant grudge bearing, where as now that we have a look at The Pale King's thought process we can see it's a great shame he feels about failing to save his people.
*SPOILERS!!*
The vindication he receives from Digger at the end of the novel was as tozic for him as Barbarus ever was. He felt empowered that his decisions were correct, that any price to save or liberate people was worth paying. We can follow that thread, pretty clearly in my mind, to see without her vindication he may not have fallen to Nurgle's corruption.
To be honest i kinda liked seeing this side horus because he is always shown as the bad guy or something but never really get see him like this.
Mortarion's loss was a waste for humanity. He and Konrad were the regulators humanity needed
No one despised civil corruption like them. Mortarion and Curze would never have allowed the High Lords of Terra to become as aloof and cruel as they are.
Imperium's anti-corruption corp
This was interesting to me. There’s that hint of why Nurgle’s principles and vision being incorporated into the Deathguard’s being. Foreshadowing and giving thematic weight to Mortarions fall to Nurgle.
Thanks to the TTS crew people accept Mortarion sounding like Filthy Frank
You got a link to that?
Now I'm interested.
@@BarelyDecentProductionlook up “Top 10 Primarch quotes” on 40K Theories.
I want Mortarion in my team in "Tacticus" now. We share a lot in common.
In this moment. Mortarion was right. Mortarion spoke the language of the Overlord. He knew what it was like to crush those beneath your heal. Those who were deemed lesser and undeserving. Mortarion knew that the only language the Overlord spoke was violence and death. Then when death came for them they pleaded, they begged, they reached for understanding. They tried to appeal to his humanity whilst they denied the eons of the humanity of Labor Units. They didn’t see them as people. They saw them as Labor Units. Mortarion did the right thing by cutting the head off the snake. He did what he needed to do and I will never fault him for that. Kill the masters.
My favourite thing about the Death Guard was their near constant use of Destroyer Squads to ruin the worlds of their enemies
I thought it was cool in any game that applies if I use scorched earth and attrition warfare but ironically I would never do that in real life
This was still one of the most beautiful stories I've heard and gives me great reapect for who Mortarion was before the turn.
He knows he is a twisted poisonous thing. He knows exactly why he is the way he is.
And he will not be judged by those of higher standing for doing the same thing that other do daily.
Kind of like when the kid a bully picks on finally starts standing up for himself and compleatly decemates the bully that went unpunished for so long and NOW everyone wants to get involved after the fact.
Can you imagine if Mortarion had stayed loyal and had come back after 10k years the way Guilleman did? Guilleman saw the state of things after 10k years and was disgusted, depressed, "Look what they've made of our dream" and "better that we had all burned," etc. A loyal, returned Mortarion would have seen hive cities and the Inquisition and the High Lords and instead of taking up the task of Imperial Regent and waging the Indomitus Crusade, Morty would have cleaned house and straight up rebelled against the powers that be.
If he was anti-Chaos in this loyal timeline, i think he would have to bite his tongue and wait to do any major reforms. Priorities would be the clusterfuck of that galaxy.
Loyalist Morty saving isha from nurgles jar when
Loved the video. Too many lore channels take a wiki/encyclopedic approach.
But I think you ground it in the books much more and appreciate the value of the narrative beyond just lists of information and do a great job portraying that.
Thanks! That's what I try to go for. I love the books and I think I lot is lost when the small moments and character interactions get left out of lore videos.
Ahhh...you know it will be a glorious day at home office work, when a new episode of Weshammer shows up :D
The Order:"we surrender, we don't want to fight you anymore"
Morty:"Skill Issue, sounds like a You problem"
Mortarion is a badass idk how big his fleet against the galaspar planet was but rigging giant meteors to block ordinance then detonating them in atmosphere to rain hell death upon the planet is metal asf
Dude this is EXACTLY what I was looking and hoping for! I am so glad that was NOT yet another retelling of Morty and the E meeting for the first time.
I am looking for stories about the Primarchs where they are these amazing god-like beings that did the impossible. Stories that take place after rejoining the Emperor but before the Heresy.
Mortarion: no hugs
Vulkan: and I took that personally
Happy Thanksgiving, and thanks for this video today, Wes. I have been thinking about how little I know about Mortarion despite being an encyclopedia on every other primarch....and I realized it was time to learn. Could not have been a more perfect time to drop this video, on a lonely Thanksgiving in another city. Thanks again, Wes. I really, truly needed this.
Hope your day gets better my friend. I'm also spending the day alone in the office working so I know how you feel.🥲
Simply amazing.
By the time this channel reach 1M, nah maybe even now, Weshammer is among the Top 10 Story Tellers of 40K.
It's just, I have no words to describe this level of perfection, the narration, the voice, the data about the history, the highlight of important parts, the personification of some scenes as we were part of the story.
The level of imagination you can achieve, the way you can visualize the action of the story with such purity like...I'm looking at a real animation.
Again, I'm just speechless, this one has become one of my favorites videos of the channel. And if the style of story telling keeps evolving, well, I cannot imagine how *perfect* could it be.
Cheers mate.
This story and you telling it is the reason I got into Warhammer. I was a super death guard fan after watching this video. The brutality of Mortarion just spoke to me lol. I’m more of an orc guy though now, but this video has a special place in my heart. Thanks, Wes!!
Truly excellent storytelling and well narrated. These kinds of in-depth stories about individual crusades and the history of specific planets are extremely interesting and show a high level of creativity in worldbuilding. I would definitely love to see more videos like this, especially as it is a character exposition for Mortarion. I guess I just love military history in general... but space military history, that's the real stuff man.
The fascinating thing about this story is that he was looking at a hive world of the emporium before 40K way back in 30K.
Establish titles is a scam you should drop them
"You don't wanna make a deal with that guy, Morty. [BURP] He's just gonna give you a strange disease, Morty."
"My name's MORTARION, and I have a new grandpa now!"
Order: "What are your terms?"
Morty: "Terms? lmao"
Order: "I'm afraid I don't understand..."
Morty: "Fresh outta terms, sorry"
Order: "B b b but I'm trying to negotiate our surrender..y'know, standard procedure in War"
Morty: "We're not on the same page are we?"
"We don't want to fight you anymore!"
"Cool. I still want you dead."
Attacking a Hive seems to be a thing that could take decades to finish there it would be almost impossible to use use artillery or tanks once you get into the hive it self so it would be a massive foot slog
Hives can always be repaired and repopulated from off world.
@@diamondvikingcrypto5369 It doesn't make sense since Hives have Billions of people living in thim in building structures that reach orbit any army that attacked would receive unbearable attrition
@@Ghastly_Grinner you are speaking as if genocide isn't an option.
@@diamondvikingcrypto5369 it isn't really the void shields on hive worlds make bombardment all but impossible (unless the writer just decides void shields aren't a thing in this story)
Yeah this is a major flaw in these 40k stories. Taking such a hive city should take months, even with a large army.
He was an unstoppable force of nature against the cruel and tyrannical, nothing could slow him nothing could stop him and he would always win the war.
But Nurgle veing what he is, only makes sense Mortarion of all people became his champion, he had an indomitable will and motiv, and when he turned to nurgle he let himself rot in his own apathetic careless, in a sense he let himself roll over and give up and stayed down.
Poetic as usual, Primarchs
I know this is about mortarion, but I can’t get over Horus and how level headed he is.
Horus was very charismatic and before his fall a good man his worst traits was pride and arrogance but that’s it
Order:"but we surrender"
Morti:"that's on you bro not mine"
as savage as the world eaters are in their killing and leaving noone alive behind, the coldness of morty and his boys killing are a step further as it is cold and calculated
Baldy did an amazing story of the death guard a Sargent who was crass basically him and Morty go in to a drinking contest. The Sargent droppin his glass and asking for more and more while locked in a staring contest with his primarch. Go check it out it's truly amazing
You and Majorkill really make watching Warhammer content fun to watch without the boredom that comes with it.
Now they just need to dump their scam sponsor.
Majorkill sucks
Wes is better
Ohhhhh the convo between Morty and the Order is just peak chilling!!
Love your content and am so glad to get some content into my army’s Primarch. Always a pleasure seeing your videos pop up, keep up the good work!
I started my love for this as a believer in the imperium, as I am shown more through your incredibly extensive videos I’m leaning more towards chaos. Mortarion was right, mercy is for the weak
This is officially one of my favorite stories. I love that both horus/sanguinius and mortarion were all right in there own ways. That on one hand the people were indeed traumatized and it would be a ludicrous task to fix this world now, but that sometimes in the face of true obscenity and evil, complete annihilation is the only real option, and that were must sometimes take the more painful path to reach our true goal without concession. Plus the "we surrender" "not my problem" was both hilarious and chilling simultaneously.
As another note, love to see the differences and similarities between then and now and what the corruption of nurgle has done to him through his strategies. In his pre chaos days he was ruthless sure, but his massacres offered one mercy, expediency. Now his death guard drags things out, allows the enemy to suffer, and makes it a slow, painful process.
A video on the most underrated Necron. Anrakyr the Traveler would be awesome. Because we have a reason to include him in practically very army list due to recent addition of new Broken heavy weapons that everyone is dreading but I see it as an opportunity for Anrakyr to "appropriate" the weapons for his amusement.
Thank you for putting out content man, I really enjoy your videos. Great job! You definitely deserve subscribers.
You know I really feel for morti with the whole. "That motherfucker over there is killing kids on tv nobody bats an eye. I kill a tyrant on tv and im the bad guy?" Vibe he had going
Things I'm Thankful for this Thanksgiving...
My family, including Grandfather Nurgle
WesHammer's videos
GW so graciously taking the money I'd use for feeding my family
Happy Thanksgiving all!
Hey! He's my grandfather to! Cousins ftw
@@morbidone88 will I be seeing g you at Thanksgiving Dinner later?
@@andrewpopcicle ofc! I'll bring a side of Papa nurgles' rot
What a great man Motarious is. He is absolutely correct. Death to Tyrants in all their forms and gestures.
I’ve been following these stories since the days that rogue trader became 2nd Edition, and one problem I’ve always had with Mortarion as his story came to light was that his worldview was exactly that: a philosophy taken from his experiences on Barbarus. Poison this, death that, suffering the other. And yet he was able to see that Barbarus was an aberration, a unique world in an ocean of unique worlds, each of them offering other viewpoints.
And not once did he ever engage with it. Instead, he repeatedly chose to double down on his own bad takes.
In short, I always found him to be possessed of an incredibly facile mind, myopic in the extreme and more concerned with his own fatalism being exemplified than he was with doing his goddamn job. He wanted so desperately to be proven right - that life is pain and all else is a falsehood - that he buggered everything up for himself, his legion and his brothers.
Don’t get me wrong, many of the primarchs wind me up with their stupidity and self-indulgence, but I’ve always had a deep distaste for Mortarion. For all his avowed strength and durability, he was remarkably weak-minded. He was damned out of his own complacency and philosophical indolence, and he contributed to ruining the galaxy for absolutely everyone due to his stupid, stubborn bullishness.
In short, Horus’s rebuke (and more even than that, the condemnation offered by Sanguinius, and Mort’s viewing of the deathly wasteland he left as being somehow beautiful) at the end of the tale is entirely correct and predicted what happened in the following years.
(And I fully realise that this will be a deeply unpopular take on a Morty video! It is just an opinion, bear in mind, and not only that, but the opinion of an old Grognard who’s probably a bit stuck in his ways! I don’t say I’m *right* with all of this; just that it is how I see Mortarion!)
All of that aside, I should say that this is a remarkable job of telling the tale on a remarkable channel. You have a new subscriber, boss. Keep this up, and may your dice favour you!
That makes them all the more human
@@TheHandofDestiny absolutely. I’m not criticising the characterisation at all. And to be honest, such a nihilistic and stagnant personality is a natural fit for Nurgle, too.
I'm not gonna disagree with you at all; I think you hot the nail on the head.
It seems the traitor primarchs were the architect of their own demise in each situation; but Morty's downward spiral is painfully ironic and wasteful.
Uh, that's because Mortarion has obvious PTSD and should never been given a legion in the first place. But you know, the Emperor is a superhuman space Nazi and wasn't winning any father of the year awards so that's how that song and dance went.
@@dewaynemcclure that’s… a little bit of an oversimplification. For two main reasons.
1) PTSD is absolutely not an explanation for why Mortarion behaved the way he did. I have (managed) PTSD myself, and I can tell you that it makes someone vulnerable in situations that they should not feel vulnerable in, and destroys any sense of control over your own life.
What it does not do, is inculcate an entirely nihilistic philosophy that drives you to commit genocide, or a superiority complex that only you are right, only you are pure and only you are strong. It literally does the precise and exact opposite of that. It does not explain anything about Mortarion’s psychotic behaviour.
If you said “Mortarion is a complete nihilistic sociopath”, I’d agree. He has PTSD? Not so much. Not at all, in fact.
2) it also doesn’t explain the disconnect between 1) the fact that Primarchs are NOT human, supposedly able to endure things (physically and psychologically) that no mortal could endure as part of the very fabric of their being, and 2) the assertion that he, of all the primarchs alone, got PTSD as a result of his upbringing. Night Haunter didn’t have PTSD. Perturabo didn’t have PTSD. None of the others did. What some of them DID have, though, is a sociopathic tendency to believe that they had a better way of ordering society, which was stoked and exploited by Chaos.
I’m sorry, but the PTSD argument is not a sound one. It doesn’t really reflect what PTSD is or how it works (unless we also assume that the BL writers don’t do any basic research) and is little more than a massive leap of assumption made to handwave away what is just horrible behaviour by sociopaths.
Just so we are clear: I am referring to the PTSD argument here, and not attacking you personally. However, I do find your causal presumption as to whether or not I might have given this chap some thought over the past thirty five years a little bit… odd. Most of the other primarchs “had PTSD” by that logic. Not all of them turned into Mortarion.
I love how they judge Mortarion's actions but fail to provide a better alternative other than attrition, yes, there where clear flaws on how Mortarion handled that situation, but there is one truth in all of this:
The people of Galaspar needed liberation, and Mortarion was the only one determined to give them that
I'm pretty sure they didn't actually care about the assault focus (Horus was known for the exact same kind of tactic), they were more at issue with the fact that nothing had been done to disavow the people of Galaspar from seeing the Imperium as a new caste of masters to serve. They'd probably be less dismayed if he wasn't upfront about intending to leave the rebuilding/re-education to other people.
@@Ariaelyne They still didn't offer any better alternatives and kept judging his decision to kill all of the order and leave the masses to the Imperium to deal with
The irony here is probably that there isn't any better alternative and none of them realize that, the Imperium is just as shitty as those who governed Galaspar, the people will keep being oppressed, *MAYBE* a little less so, still, the cycle is still in motion, perhaps just as Nurgle wants it
@@Ariaelyne I would agree if not for the fact that the Emperor would explicitly want the Space Marines not to take part in the re-education, as he made very clear with Lorgar. Emperor was never a fan of Lorgars faith but did nothing about it until it slowed down his crusade. Of all the Legions, the Word Bearers were actually the best at integrating worlds into compliance smoothly, but the Emperor wanted his space marines for Crusading and had other people for compliance, he could not abide what he saw as a waste of time.
Your 15min + videos are my biweekly highlight lately, thanks for teaching me 🥺🙏
Great job telling Mortys story he's such an interesting charecter I'm hoping we get more books for him and the Deathguard
Love the standing up format.
I find it funny how the lore states the Luna Wolves to be the Legion with speartip tactics, only for basically every other legion to do the same
I don’t know much of warhammer but Morti did absolutely nothing wrong. There’s nun anyone can say to convince me
There's a rumor that Morty is going to be redeemed, What do you guys think of this?
he didnt really choose to be part of chaos, so id like to see it happen, even the big e had faith in him
I have an entire homebrew chapter surrounding the concept of redeeming the deathguard
No, he will not be redeemed because GW needs to make money selling Death Guard and Morty models. They are a business after all
Can you do a video on the primarchs that the Chaos Gods wanted, like Khorne wanting Sanguinius
Even Angron's daemonic form is an echo of Sanguinius.
@@LegendStormcrow please, expand on it
@@infernalskepandaen2127 He became a daemonic angel.
The way I see khorne...he probably took one look at the two warp gos inside sanguinius. And he was like: "You two will make fine hellhounds..."
Another fantastic video! Thank you for shedding more light on my favorite Primarch.
Digger the former labor unit at the end offering Mortarion her tally was one of the best parts of the book
Funny how they say this is bad when Night Lords, World Eaters, and Iron Warriors were a thing. The hypocrisy is hilarious to see.
Ironic how the empire turned into the planet he purged
32:20 the interaction of Horus, Sanguinius , and Mortarion saddens me. Not for Mortarion nor Sanguinius, but Horus. He had humility, love, and brotherhood bound within him and it was stolen away by the dark gods. He would've brought the greater imperium together, united his brothers, and made the galaxy a better place. Would be nice if GW would produce a fractal of 40k book series that showed the Imperium if the Heresy never happened. I can see Angron and Mortarion would still defect or leave the Imperium, but it would all together be better than being divided.
I think when the Emperor created the Primarchs and their legions he knew exactly what he was doing. Different wars and different worlds required different tactics and approaches. That's why he had each legion specialize in certain areas, and the Primarchs furthered this specialization even further when they were reunited with their legions. I find it interesting that the majority of the legions that had very specific specializations are the ones that rebelled. Not all, but certainly most. Was it their single minded view on how wars were to be waged that made them vulnerable, or did that just make them easier for Horus to manipulate and control?
You sure about that? I certainly see some truth, but there are specialists on Imp side: Jaggy-Khan and Ferus Manus for example... And I wouldn't say Fulgrim was a specialist, more that he was forced to be a rapier not an axe when he had so few marines left. On the other hand, his ethos is so close to SheWhoThirsts I do wonder if, assuming primarch creation involved taking a piece of Chaos to use like clay, he got a daemonette heavy sample
@@auricstorm it's just a thought and I did say most, not all. The Imperials still have the Khan, as you point out, as well as Corvis, the stealth specialist and Dorn, the defense specialist. I think the Emperor's Children are specialists in a way- they are perfectionists, to a fault. I agree that opened them up to Slanesh corruption, but is that because of the way they were designed or circumstances? We know the warp was involved in their making, for all the Primarchs, but I'm curious if the over specialization into specific tactics made the traitor Primarchs more vulnerable. If Angron for certain was primed for Khorne corruption the moment he was inflicted with the butcher's nails. I think you could argue the degree which the Emperor denied his divinity sent the Word Bearers on the path to chaos simply because they were a legion that needed something to believe in. Magnus's arrogance and the degree to which they used sorcery certainly doomed the Thousand Sons, but did it have to end that way?
The Death Guard pre-heresy is so brutal and relentless, it's no wonder they passed to Chaos XD
Like, Horus or Fulgrim, it was probably a surprise, but Mortarion, the Emperor was probably "How did you managed to stay that long without treason?" XD
Wes you've got a great reputation amongst the community never stop doing these! i look forward to these all week but can you maybe do some more ork stuff? i have to say that was my favourite of yours so far, well that and tryzan.
+
I identify with Mortarian more than any other Primarch.
People, who get to know me, always dislike me too lol.
Mortarion is not my favourite Primarck in fact I would say he is one of my least favourite, however this story show's a part of him that I don't really see being discussed by the fandom, that he views himself as bringer of freedom, a champion of the oppressed and a destroyer of the oppressors yet at the same time it showed one of his biggest flaws the fact that he doesn't truly understand freedom and it is understandable: his early life was spent as the slave of a necromancer then when he got rid of that instead of living a free life he went and became the leader of the people of Barbarus and although I understand why he did this it ultimately lead him to never learning what means to be truly free, he went from being used to using others in a very small amount of time with never knowing what is in the inbetween and the Emperor's arrival only made it worsh, both because Mortarion doesn't know the difference between saving and kill stealing and because Mortarion now had an even greater force under his command a force that would follow him without question, again this all was done with the absolute best intentions in mind but it ultimately lead him down the path that we see in this book, not only did he commit utter genocide to the Order which would have quite surely included the members of it that were too young to have participated in their depravity but he then goes and ORDER'S the former labor units to pile up the bodies, the sheer amount/variety of phycological damage of that is beyond my comprehension, and there is the crescendo of the story when he basically demands from a planet to completely forgot everything about their culture, values and practices because he simply wanted them to do so which is like THE most dictatorial thing ever only for him to blow them up later because they didn't instantly abandond their who knows how many generations of traditions at his request.
The interesting thing about this is the fact that if you know him you also know why he is like that, he commands and order exclusively because he's adoptive "father" only commanded and ordered him, he was then surrounded by people that would not raise an objection to him out of a compilations of respect, admiration and fear. If anything I think that this is a far more interesting side of Mortarion than the 'I hate phycers but I'm also a phycer and a massive hypocrite at top'. He is a confused freedom fighter that never truly learned the point and meaning of true freedom.
just like every people in current time screaming of freedom and democracy hahaha
Tldr
He used to view himself as such. Now he lives in a chaos planet and rules over slaves toiling in nurglic valleys, which is just a horrific image to even picture. Ironically he's become the exact same type of tyrants that used to rule his own planet.
@@geeljire9247 turn the tables have indeed
Love your work Wes, your passion in these lore story videos are amazing. Almost makes me want to start a Death Guard army :P
You would think a siege would have annihilated the worker population before the tyrants, the direct approach sounds like the best way to reduce innocent casualties
"we cant replace one tyranny with another"
Jesus christ could Horus be more of a hypocrite if he tried?
The horus heresy shows us that yes,he can.
well by the time the poison dagger was already controlling his mind.
it's not like he wants to wage war with the imperium,
that's why when the emps blasted the 4 gods out of horus, he came to his senses immediately
Just wanted to shout out a big "thank you" for putting out some amazing lore videos. I originally saw this video months ago, but I came back to add a comment after I've recently watched the Mortarion video from GWs Loremasters series, and I just have to say that I liked your video a lot more. I have really come to appreciate many of your alternative (if not slightly heretical) views of the various sides of chaos. It really makes a lot more sense why someone might turn to Nurgle or follow Mortarion. It's taken these characters to a far deeper level of character development than just the surface "ewww they're gross" that most give to the Deathguard.
So did Horus and sanguinis have the same pep talk about mercy with Angron and Conrad?
“You can’t always be the scythe..” That Horus said really stuck out to Mortarion. “We shall always be the scythe!”
Yes! A video about my favorite traitor (if not overall) primarch!
The Order: “We surrender.”
Mortarion: “No.”
MORTY that's all I see
Of all the stories I've heard you speak this one hits me at my heart. The death of the Tyrant and the end of suffering is necessary for freedom and liberation to spring eternal. Horus and Sanguinius are right in offering mercy to those who can be corrected and brought into the light, but some evil is absolute in its corruption. Sometimes the scythe is the only penance that can be offered to the condemned.
Mortarion slaying tyrants and uplifting the weak got censured yet Space Wolf massacreing the people they come to save and even fought alongside them got a slap on the wrist...
Says something about the actual goals of the crusades huh?
they rejected compliance quite simple
Damn Established Titles about to become the new Raid Shadow Legends
Phosphex Bomb remind me of Greek Fire but much stronger, for people who don't know what Greek Fire is, it's a Incendiary weapon used by the ancient greeks that spewed out liquid fire onto enemy ships and supposedly never went out. it's a Long lost weapon of war that has had it's recipes lost to time but people think it's like a crude but very effective version of Napalm. Supposedly the flames were green in color which is why I got reminded from the artwork used alongside the descriptions of the Phosphex bombs
While I understand where the hate for Morty is coming from, I don't share it personally, and I wish that they would focus more on him in writing: first of all, I find his philosophy on life as fascinating (he doesn't exactly put negative value on life, but his moral code, while leading to the same conclusion, is pretty much inverse of that of anyone else. That isn't to say that he is amoral: he *has* morals, they are just kinda...going other way?) and I always thought that he can be a target for great grim storytelling (def up there with Angron, given that Morty right now *IS* what he always hated, and that does not escape him fully. I wonder if we might get redemption-by-death from Morty at some point.)
Dam this Wes is killing it. Compared majorkills 10 min videos with 4 min of it being plugs
Technically Mortarion isn't Nurgles champion, Typhus the Traveler.
Actually, quick question are the Chaos Champions (Typhys, Lucius, Kharn, Ahriman) Daemon Princes? And if they aren't then why not? They are far more dedicated to their patron gods then their Primarchs so why not elevate them?
Quality of the soul if I had to guess. I'd rather have a primarch as my champion than a gene son of said primarch