That comment about darkness leads to the root of all evil. Darkness is not a virtue in itself - but that's what many believe and that's what has ruined Kaufmann and many other tenors. Don José is a *tenor*, and there is no need for him to sound like a baritone. Listen to Lauri-Volpi, Fleta, Pertile. Spinto, yes. Artificially darkened? No. No way, José.
I'll go ahead and say it: it WAS what nearly killed me. The pressure tho, to be "another Giaccomini" was enormous, as it was for Cura, all with the same manager. It's a devastating priority, fraught with manipulation and tongue root depression. You might be able to sustain it as a baritone, but as a tenor it will always lead to hyper adduction. Thank God I realized it and can now course correct.
Вот это настоящее признание в любви от Марио дель Монако! А этот невероятный си бемоль! Кто способен так- никто...! За таким Хозе -хоть на край света! А к кому обращается Кауфман? Куда делась Кармен? А медальону можно и помяукать...
@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 oh my god, that is so weird. He sounds like he is clearing his throat at the beginning. But really I do prefer those high notes to his usual singing, so maybe he really is a soprano… ahah
You are still immature and lying, as usual. When will you actually start telling the truth and being mature? Your trick has gotten old to those with ears and sense.
This is an entirely accurate analysis but is rendered as one unfair simply because it presents on behalf of del Monaco what just may be the singularly most spectacular, verging on inhuman, performance containing what just might be the most thrilling single note ever recorded. As to modern opera's stars, it really would be nice if they would take a lesson from the likes of del Monaco and Callas and at least try to sing the vowel as it would be spoken, and not resort to the seemingly irresistible temptation to sing every a, i, o or u (they can usually blast a pretty clear e) as if it were written as an "ohh" an "ehh" or an "awe". Still, no matter, you got to hand it to old iron lungs del Monaco, his voice, his acting, his presence, the guy was the total package.
Почему youtube чинит препятствия при размещении справедливого комментария профессионала в сфере искусства? Это уже перебор. В политике препятствуете, теперь до искусства добрались. В Италии belcanto всегда можно было обсуждать, ведь иначе не будет стремления к совершенству!
Kauffman es realmenteun invento, para quien haya escuchado en vivo a Tucker, Gedda, Bergonzi por no citar más que algunos de los que realmente cantaban. Una pobrísima técnica y una voz pequeña que no "corre" producto del oscurecimiento artificial de su voz. Si Del Monaco es más o menos sutil en su canto, es harina de otro costal. Pero Kauffman, no existe al lado de los que fueron realmente grandes. Producto mediático de estos tiempos como tantos otros.
si usted lo dice será así. no vamos a cambiarle las orejas al burro para hacerlo pasar por caballo. ni que lo intentaramos. por favor! el solo hecho de afirmar absurdos ubican su conocimiento en el tema y para mi su alocución es francamente impecable e inimputable.
.....There can be no comparison, especially as vocal potential is concerned. The technical quality of the two voices leads to only one correct judgment. MDM produces his big natural voice with impliciteness, round over the entire dynamic range. A big voice remains big, from pp to ff. Mr. Kaufmanns voice always sounds artificially formed and uneven over the range. This has nothing to do with the person Jonas Kaufmann or his success. Who am I to criticize audiences applauding to him? However it doesn’t make the singing any better. Mr. Kaufmann tries to be a good Kaufmann, that’s it. He certainly knows all the great predecessors, however he would be a fool to „compete“ with any of them. If he tried e.g. Otello like MDM, he would end voiceless the same evening. His only way to success was to develop a sound attractive to the people and the market, a microphone voice, often crooning. He lately tried Vienna Songs, however his voice lacks everything necessary for that typical sound. Voices and demands have changed since the times of MDM s Golden Era. Obviously into a questionable direction. MDM and FC e.g. had the appearance plus the voice. Mr Kaufmann is vocal Hermaphrodit to his critics. Comparing him to MDM is a kind of unfair. It is only useful in pointing out to the top level „Cantare“ in former times. It is comparing a friendly housecat to a powerful lion. There hasn’t been a successor so far. So let’s hope for the future. RDS
@@oliverdelica2289 ...if he really pretends that, he must be out of his mind. I actually heard his statement about his own present voice quality: Better than ever. Unbelievable! RDS
@@username45739 song singing is actually very revealing, exposes shortcomings starkly as well as a great potential showcase for expressivity and flexibility and versatility that comes from great technique. unfortunately, most audiences are not very discriminating about that either. They hear a pretty song that they know well and they’re swept away in emotions by just two notes of the worst crooning
Ma che paragone inutile....non si può mettere a confronto kaufman con Del Monaco......quel falsetto a fine romanza e come se kaufman fosse stato sodomizzato....🤣🤣
la vocalità di Del Monaco,qui in Italiano,non è paragonabile a nessuno o a pochi!!! figuriamoci ad un prodotto odierno con una voce ingolata e mezze voce udibili solo con microfono...se ascoltiamo il LAb smorzato che esegue Del Monaco in quest'aria,si ha la perfetta dimensione di come si eseguono i piani ,anche se Del Monaco li usava raramente...grazie
Kaufmann´s voice sounds at the back of his throat somehow, I dont dislike the sound per se, but sometime it sounds as he was muted. In any case, his voice sounds tired
Марио Дель Монако это глыба, титан, легенда. Замены пока нет. А раз нет таких как Дель Монако и Франко Корелли,то Кауфман поёт как бы хорошо. Зато он красивый.
MDM = greatest dramatic tenor of post ww2. Peerless technic, emission as a sunlight in all the theater. In one word, magical! JK = a former lyric tenor with technical problems who always dreamed he was a second Vickers (with a little size and body). Fake darkened voice who doesn t project because throaty. Even Ramon Vinay in decline had more voice than him. Result, Mario of course!
Stecie did NO wonder: Vinay is dead, del Monaco is also dead. Kaufmann is alive. So what will you do? Vickers NEVER sung Werther in French language in Paris! Vickers had a rough voice.
@@achmedmohamed4708 and so what? Caravaggio, Rafaello, Michelangelo are also dead but their art will live forever. Same for the great singers of the past. Of course Kofman is alive and so what?
@Barone Vitellio Scarpia Old school, new school. There is only ONE school of singing! The right one which pleases the ear of a listener. The singing of Callas pleases only the gay boys, not the real hetero men! I have 60 years of international experiences with this! Vickers had a rought voice! Vickers had a small repertoire!
Kaufmann always sounds, as if he is swallowing his tongue. What did the great Franco Bonisolli say about the three „Tenors“: „Brutto, antiestetico, schlecht“
WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE AND A BIG THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO. THIS IS SUPER VERY CLEAR AND AMAZING!!!!! MOST MODERN SINGERS WILL NEVER EVER UNDERSTAND OR TAKE THIS SERIOUS!!! That is why they have such grotesque undeveloped voices today singing opera and making a full mess of it. Modern Vocal Pedagogues teaching absolute rubbish everywhere so hard to find the very correct and right teachers. WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE!!!! THE VIDEO SPEAKS VOLUMES.
Kaufmanns Stimme ist dumpf und langweilig. Er wird Del Monaco niemals das Wasser reichen können. Del Monacos Stimme ist strahlend wie Diamant, einzigartig, eben eine Klasse für sich. Ich werde nie verstehen, weshalb Kaufmann als einer der besten Tenöre gilt.
@@koryos4273 das liegt vllt auch daran, dass die Sänger heutzutage alles singen müssen, ob sie die stimmlichen Voraussetzungen haben oder nicht, das spielt keine Rolle. Ich finde es furchtbar. Del Monaco hat z. B. nie Donizetti gesungen, als tenore drammatico völlig undenkbar.
….meine persönliche Meinung: Es gibt kaum welche. Dann ist der Einäugige König im Land der Blinden. „Ei nun, er wagt´s,“ wie es in den Meistersingern heißt. JK ist jedoch auch kein überzeugender Stolzing. Wie auch? Unvergleichliche(s) zu vergleichen, machte noch nie Sinn. Wer mich jedoch fragt, weshalb nach meiner Auffassung JK ein Sinnbild für die Mittelmäßigkeit des Tenor-Gesangs ist, sollte die alten und ja längst von uns gegangenen Meister ihres Fachs anhören. Die werden für alle Zeiten gehört werden. Was von Herrn Kaufmann bleibt, mögen zukünftige Generationen von Hörern beurteilen. Mein Verdikt hat sich über die Jahre nicht (mehr) verändert. Beste Grüße
Preferisco di gran lunga Jonas Kaufmann... Non c'è paragone nonostante l'indubbia bravura di Del Monaco. È una questione di interpretazione: Kaufmann capisce perfettamente che quell' acuto deve essere sfumato, dolcissimo, non sparato come fa Del Monaco, più che altro per mettere in mostra la sua voce...
The root cause is Kaufmann's More than 80% of the vocal cords are closed. This is the root cause. Mario del Monaco is held open with force (humans don't know this yet, only that the diaphragm supports the breath), and the physiological phenomena Francisca is talking about are caused by the closure of the vocal cords.
It is mario del monaco singing meco all'altar di venere (the last part of it that starts "me protegge, me difende"), here is the video ua-cam.com/video/IH-4qoD1a4Y/v-deo.html
You cannot compare these two... It is also a matter of approach here. Kaufmann sings this with a partial falsetto to apply the diminuendo at the end... Del Monaco just uses sheer power. Del Monaco also would not be able to sing some of the lyric parts with grace as Kaufmann can. As far as the voice Mario is untouchable, but I woud not listen to some stuff that his voice is not suited for.
its not really fair that some young person who doesn’t know better will save up to buy a 250€ ticket for a jonas kaufmann performance (because if he is in it, the price doubles...) simply because they are being lied to by the opera houses and tricked into thinking kaufmann is a good tenor.....
@@francisca1378 There doesn't seem much of a choice today except for the leggero and lyric tenor group. Kaufman's middle voice always seemed peculiar and now at 55 years of age, there doesn't seem much hope that anything will change. I'm not a fan of JK but I do think there was or is some sincerity in his performances. After all, I don't think He intentionally wanted to sound peculiar. Even Alagna at age 57 seems like his vocal line is all shot up, but He still singing
@@sugarbist ya im not saying Kaufmann is like....evil. I think he is just part of the system. Honestly he is kind of a ‘victim’ of the sysytem himself in the sense that if he were born 50 years earlier he would have had better guidance in developing his natural talents (which I believe he does have!) and probably would have become a fair tenor. Same goes for many modern opera singers, even Netrebko. All wasted talent in my opinion....
@@francisca1378 Netrebko has been singing for about 25 years and her voice is wobbling as evidenced in a Adriana LeCouvreur performance last year with Beczala. But she will continue to sing off of her popularity. In My Opinion, she has sung too many heavy roles that are not suited for her, but 25 years is still a long career.
@@sugarbist definitely, she is a light soprano. When she was younger she definitely showed natural talent, but a dramatic soprano… she is not! I heart her as Lady Macbeth… it sounded like someone making fun of opera.
Kaufman not in the same class, nowhere near,he sounds muffled,cloudy,but he does sing the end of the aria the way it was composed,mario lets it rip at the end and is playing to the audience,i know which i prefer and thats mario
Darker than any italian tenor??? Hahaha and people forget about Franco Corelli in Carmen huge B flat plus the diminuendo that he is doing in Aida is to put Kaufmann and all the other new tenor fools to shame hahahhah
It’s painful to listen and to watch JK sings. No wonder the quality of modern opera production are poor and it’s not worthy to spend a few hundred pounds for those ‘celebrity’s opera singers’ ( they are not artist, they are celebrity).
I know MdM had an amazing voice, but i have found him to be a pedestrian musician. Vickers was a better artist, in my opinion. It may seem like a strange comparison but i see an analogy between MdM and Pavarotti-- both of them had absolute vocal control, but neither was an outstanding musician
Yeah, that’s definitely worth noting. However, an appropriate dynamic level is possible without coming off of the voice and losing that clear core. MDM did not always choose to attempt this, but Franco Corelli was one who could if he chose to. The end of Corelli’s Celeste Aida shows exactly this ability. It’s really difficult though. The question is would you rather hear, in this instance, a pianissimo or a voice with core and clarity? I can excuse coming off the voice to achieve this dynamic here IF the voice demonstrates core and clarity elsewhere, but Jonas doesn’t really ever have that.
I do think this video kind of misdiagnoses what is going on with the high note, because obviously Kaufmann can sing high notes louder than that. The loudness isn’t so much the point being made, but comparing it to MDM just not giving a shit about the dynamic does make for a weird comparison.
These videos are incredibly pseudo intelligent. Such a high note at pianissimo dynamic while forcing a decrescendo is so much more difficult (especially during a full show) than singing a high note fortissimo and on one dynamic. The things that really put me off were the modern stylistic choices (movements, interpretations, etc.), which do end up causing singers to use different sounds. The “muffled” note Kaufmann sang didn’t have much ring, but it was also warm and a nice sound. It wasn’t off pitch, it was audible, and it didn’t mess up the following notes. It was pleasant to listen to, that’s what really matters. These same youtube critics will hail hvorostovsky (who I think sounded great btw), who has so much less ring and ping to his voice than majority of other baritones/bass baritones. Is it bad? No, it’s a different sound and very possibly selective.
@@yuujoupop Totally agree. While I am not a fan of Kaufmann's overdarkened sound, the idea that he is "incapable of producing a robust high note" is preposterous. And while his high note in this aria isn't great, at least he's making an effort to observe the composer's indicated dynamic. Too many tenors just blast away at this note. I love Del Monaco, he did not have the same ability to sing softer dynamics that other great tenors did. I got to hear Hvorostovsky live a couple times and wasn't a fan for the reason you cite - in person the voice has little squillo and is in my opinion rather mundane.
Del Monaco's bellow isn't really a fair comparison to Kaufmann's 'precious' diminuendo. He CAN do a 'look at me' high note, but that isn't always the musical choice.
Sí, más allá de lo técnico, de lo que no puedo opinar, Del Mónaco es muy heroico en su final, y en este aria el sentimiento es más acorde con el pianissimo de Kaufman. Es solo una opinión.
but I think the point of the discussion is not artistic choice, but the quality of the sound production. I think the author offered examples of beautiful quiet singing like that of John Vickers. He did exactly the same artistic take as Kaufman but did it with sound quality and technique
There is a one meaning reason to sing this b flat in falsetto- it is a risk to have your voice cracked as well as it is in Celeste Aida. I suggest as a young singer that these way to the high note contains difficulties as many as hell: to begin the low note on pianissimo and make crescendo to the top. It’s like shifting gears, the only one is right, not lower, not higher. Even for Del Monaco this phrase is not so easy as it seems, but he manages just magnificent. Kaufman is known for me by his way to sing 50% of Celeste Aida in falsetto, that’s it
Yes, it is. And so is the note at the end of Celeste Aida, but only Kaufmann, Corelli, and Bergonzi have been able to do it successfully (of the ones I've heard).
Perhaps out of spite ... perhaps the video compilers pride themselves on being experts about voices, singing, and technique ... There is a common strand running through these videos of critical singing analysis and comparisons, of discussions: all opera singers of the past were great, excellent, and perfect. By contrast, today's opera singers are all puny and pathetic (they don't know how to really sing, they have terrible technique, etc.).
@@JLFAN2009 But the real question is whether it's true, no? Maybe it is? I can definitely hear the difference, but i also happen to think new talent may appear that brings things back to where they were.. you never know
No se puede hacer esta comparación. estamos evaluando una voz educada, con una paleta de colores inigualable en el presente y si miramos para atrás también única, con uno de los mejores tenores de la historia como Del Mónaco que tenia un vozarrón pero sin el menor refinamiento. para Mario cantar era echar chorros de voz descomunales por su boca y para quienes amamos el canto lírico sabemos que cantar es otra cosa mucho más dificil y requiere además de lo que madre natura da, un gran entrenamiento y dedicación. Mario siempre lo dijo. yo no soy cantante soy pintor pero si me dedicaba a pintar cuadros me iba a morir de hambre. Kaufmann es desde el punto de vista de técnica de canto impecable, desde el punto de vista del color bruñido de su voz, único y desde su vena actoral inigualable. La prensa londinense por algo en estas épocas de la Carmen con Anotonacci dijo que era el De Niro de la lírica y no se equivocaron en absoluto. Fue, es y será único como Mario del Mónaco en su repertorio y en su rendimiento sonoro tambien lo fue, lo es y lo seguirá siendo. Estamos comparando, como dijo alguna vez Callas "champain con coca-cola". ninguno de los dos divos se lo merecen. Uno porque ya es una gloria inmortal y el otro porque nunca se ha jactado de parecerse a otro cantante excepto a si mismo. Y el resto va en gustos y como para gustos, los colores, cada cual tiene derecho a alinear con quien mejor le plazca. Al menos en canto lírico se debe comparar tres cosas si se quiere sacar algo en claro: calidad vocal, técnica y versatilidad. Kaufmann y del Monaco no tienen nada de parecido en ninguna de las tres cosas.
Noto cierto fanatismo injustificado por Kauffman. Su técnica no es buena, engola la voz, los pianissimi son muy malos, y no alcanza las notas altas con la seguridad necesaria. Son totalmente incomparables, Del Mónaco es un Dios del canto, Kauffman, un buen tenor como tantos otros en la historia, que va a pasar sin pena ni gloria a la posteridad.
@@santiagocasamassima4963 Me podría responder técnicamente como justificaría usted que una laringe a 23 cm de los labios puede producir engolamiento? salvo Kaufmann, ningún cantante actual ni siquiera los wagnerianos más reputados del momento pueden mantener tal relajación de laringe, inmovil, durante toda la emisión en una opera de hora y media de duración ni en una de cuatro horas. así que salvo que me explique como eso puede ser posible, descarto el engolamiento que seguramente lo leyó varias veces pero no se puso a meditar siquiera de qué se trata. los pianisimos de Kaufmann puede que no le gusten pero es el único ternor de los últimos 40 años que los produce, el resto no. Del Monaco, Corelli, etc han sido enormes cantantes pero yo no me atrevería a compararlos con Kaufmann si considerase que Kaufmann no se lo merece. Yo no comparo la coca-cola con el champain, si lo hiciera estoy favoreciendo la comparación y como tal estoy tratando de buscar donde no se parecen. La verdad Kaufmann en calidad de canto supera a esos monstruos que son enormes por lo que han dado pero no son los únicos cantantes porque tampoco tenían una técnica buena, solo tenían un dominio de la gola a escala superlativa. hay una gran diferencia entre un emisor de caudales de voz y un cantante lirico. un cantante lirico no se lo mide siquiera por el volumen sino con lo que puede hacer con su voz.
what is the correct tongue position asking for a friend and also cause in the few videos of del monaco and friends that i've seen the tongue seems to be resting behind the bottom teeth. please advise sorry for no punctuation
this is very important question. The tongue should NOT be behind the teeth, it should be pulled back away from the teeth and arched in the mouth (basically, if you do this, it keeps the larynx low and the jaw down, or conversely, if you have your larynx low and your jaw down, your tongue will naturally go into this position). There is one of those This is Opera! videos about this, which I found really helpful (generally Mario del Monaco really shows well where the tongue should be … don't know why maybe just the shape of his mouth, you can see into it well, ahah). ua-cam.com/video/Sn7iWDL64Z8/v-deo.html At the end of the video, they show a diagram of how the tongue should be, which should help you visualize it. Basically, if you put your tongue against the bottom of the teeth, it will lie more flat in the mouth, which will cause problems (like Kaufmann, or Netrebko is another example of someone whose tongue is lying flat in their mouth). I hope that helps! :)
Muy buen vídeo, has ejemplificado de forma ilustrativa lo que hemos visto todos estos años nefastos para la ópera. Kaufmann lo han puesto a cantar como ‘tenor’ con una voz que no es la suya , respaldado por una técnica pésima. Por ahí existe una grabación de este señor Kaufmann con su verdadera voz como un tenor mozartiano, lo hace muy bien. Pero alguien lo vio guapo y lo aupó a cantar roles que no son ni para su tesitura vocálica, ni para su interpretación, el resultado ha sido una deformación de los grandes repertorios, el daño ya está hecho. Y, ahí por ahí quién compara a Kaufmann con Carusso, madre mía! El fin del canto lírico. Gracias.
it’s difficult to make a living as an opera singer audiences are not discriminating enough to even help you make a living by sticking to what you know. Another words they’re not going to say oh that Kaufman sounds great in Mozart, so I’ll go see him in Mozart more often so that it can pay his bills.
Del Monaco lo ha spiegato benissimo rispondendo in te a una domanda di una spettatrice. Non faceva i pianissimi perchè una volta che lo ha fatto è rimasto senza voce. La sua tecnica semplicemente non glielo permetteva ed è stato molto onesto. Definirlo solo muscolare è sbagliato. Ma anche dire che Kaufmann sia scarso è sbagliato. Un altro tipo di voce, un emissione “strana” sembra ingolfato come Josè Cura tanto per fare un esempio, ma a differenza del tenore argentino Kaufmann ha un altra voce ed è sicuramente un artista che cerca di far quello che è scritto nello spartito vedi la Carmen di Bizet nell’aria del fiore dove il compositore prevede di smorzare l’acuto, cosa che purtroppo Del Monaco non poteva fare, cosa che Corelli viste le sue performance in Aida è in Tosca poteva fare e che stranamente almeno in disco non ha fatto con Karajan. Sono due artisti diversi, poi certo sul piano vocale la voce di Del Monaco è stata unica, solo Corelli nel campo del tenore drammatico poteva eguagliarlo.
Of course Kauffman sounds artificial, ingollato, strange and all that, and of course Del Monaco has a big voice and naturally produced, all right, but the phrase ON THE SCORE is written, from the B FLAT in the middle to the high B flat, "PP RALLENTANDO" ... NOW, I personally don't like Kauffman at all, neither Del Monaco, but, THEY SHOULD BOTH TRY AND SING THE SCORE, not what is best for them.
Del Monaco hatte eine Stimme, die mit "Forte Noten" beeindruckt, aber il Passaggio, die Überbrückung von Forte ins Piano/Pianissimo, war immer seine Schwäche (das wurde auch oft, selbst von italienischen Kritikern kommentiert). Man kann diese Stelle nicht so wie ein Krieger der zeigen will "guck mal wie stark ich bin!" singen. Er muss hier Gefühle zeigen und gerade das tut er nicht. Der Karakter ist am Boden zerstört, er offenbart gerade seine intimsten Gefühlen...Ein Opersänger muss interpretieren können, nicht nur gut singen. Auf italienisch heißt: "essere in grado di metterci nei panni del personaggio". Das kann del Monaco nicht. Das hier ist eine von vielen kritischen Stellen für ihn wo er null Sensibilität zeigt. "Dio! Mi potevi scagliar..." bei Otello genauso. Da macht er Rezitation statt piano singen. "Un trono vicino al sol" genauso. Da ist Verdi explodiert. Auch in seiner Zeit viele Sänger haben diese Stelle mit Fortissimo gesungen. Er schreibt das auch in seiner Korrespondenz mit Giuglio Ricordi. Die Arie muss mit einem Piano ins "morendo" enden und nicht mit Fortissimo.
historically it has been sung forte from the 1900s till the 60s ,you can hear pretty much everyone singing it forte, regardless of the score. Singers used to take poetic licenses back then, and I'll tell you what, they had all the rights with their voices.
@@nelihelms2719 but morendo implies a vocal sound with reducing volume, not a choked sounding buzzing. Where’s the voice? If you can’t sing that way, then sing a little louder at least that would be honest. Otherwise it’s like he’s cheating the audience because this is no longer singing. Anybody can make a sound like that.
@@comment6864 The singer must be honest also with the composer/score. Only because the composer cann't react, it doesn't mean that the singer can sing free and can show all his skills with the voice, regardless the wish of the composer. Kaufmann said in an Interview: " First of all, we must be advocate of the composer"
One decides to sing "Toi" forte completely out out of style, the others tries and succeeds to give it shape and musicality. It's not Mario. Sure, Mario has the bigger voice, and sure, he's almost inhuman. But for DJ? I'll take Kaufmann any day over Del Monaco.
but that’s not quiet singing it’s a choked buzzing. Anybody can produce that sound. Why would we call it opera and pay money to hear it. It feels like fakery and feels a little insulting. I think that’s why people complain.
@@comment6864 They're wrong to complain. If anyone could do it, everyone would do it. Singing always loud is easy. I'm a baritone, I should know. Putting in colors, that's the art.
Sure Del Monaco is an established opera god, etc, but I like Kaufman better in this song. Del Monaco had the gigantic voice and he knew how to display it to full advantage, but bigger is not always better for everything. The Flower Song is about exquisite pain and fragility, and I think Kaufman does the more appropriate interpretation here. Kaufman's voice is way too dark and we shouldn't like it, and yet Many of us find it utterly intoxicating anyway. I am a fan of both of these gentlemen.
There is a proper way to sing the song more with more "fragility" than del Monaco and it isn't what Kaufmann is doing - I used Vickers as a better example and his falsetto note (Kaufmann is obviously imitating Vickers generally with the way he interprets parts… albeit poorly). It isn't about what someone subjectively likes better, its a question of correct technique.
@@francisca1378 Thanks for that! I love it that we have access to all these different versions of singers and songs. Some days I may be moved by a performance and not care about technique. Some days my focus is on the technique and I get pleasure from admiring the skill involved. Deviations from "correct technique" don't necessarily rule out my complete enjoyment. Probably I don't know enough about singing.
@@anotheryou218 but the problem is that when an audience is so not discriminating we don’t even have any proper technique left Vickers passed away a few years ago
Se parla di John Vickers ha ragione egli ha eseguito un grande Sib piano...se parla di Del Monaco che ha perso la voce è falso!!! Come è falsa la vocalità di Kaufmann...saluti
No comparison! opera is awful today. Thank you for posting Del Monaco's brilliant interpretation!
Oh the best may be yet to come
Bravo, bravo, Mario! Настоящий лев, среди мяукающих котят!
super ah ah ah smiechno ! " Mario un vrai lion parmi des chats qui miaulent !! " je traduis et je ris tant votre commentaire est amusant. Spasibo.
Mario Del Monaco il Dio della lirica Italiana il migliore di tutti il Maestro dei Maestri e qui mi fermo!
It should be mentioned that no other tenor that I know of had the sheer size of delMonaco's voice.
That may be true. But you have Leggero Tenors of the past with better development, carrying more in opera houses and theaters than Jonas’ voice would.
Corelli aveva una voce più potente di quella di del monaco, è sufficiente confrontare i duetti con le stesse cantanti per accorgersene.
@@giovannievangelista6218 No, non e vero Giovanni.
That comment about darkness leads to the root of all evil. Darkness is not a virtue in itself - but that's what many believe and that's what has ruined Kaufmann and many other tenors. Don José is a *tenor*, and there is no need for him to sound like a baritone. Listen to Lauri-Volpi, Fleta, Pertile. Spinto, yes. Artificially darkened? No. No way, José.
No way, DON José.
I'll go ahead and say it: it WAS what nearly killed me. The pressure tho, to be "another Giaccomini" was enormous, as it was for Cura, all with the same manager. It's a devastating priority, fraught with manipulation and tongue root depression. You might be able to sustain it as a baritone, but as a tenor it will always lead to hyper adduction. Thank God I realized it and can now course correct.
@@operarocks Well done! 👍
del Monaco has sex appeal in spades. Fabulous, honest singing, I wish I had seen him live. Thanks for posting
Del Monaco ,a pleno ,pulmón ,gran voz .Jonas kaufmann la belleza del canto 🌹💔👏😘😘🎶
There is something so visceral and almost animalistic about MDM's vocal production. He's a beast!
Kauffman's technique is one thing but the simp opera goers who praise him...
I can't 😂😂😂
Today he’s all they have 🤷♂️
Вот это настоящее признание в любви от Марио дель Монако! А этот невероятный си бемоль! Кто способен так- никто...! За таким Хозе -хоть на край света! А к кому обращается Кауфман? Куда делась Кармен? А медальону можно и помяукать...
No comparison. Monaco's French accent isn't wonderful. 2/11/23
Kaufmann is actually an undeveloped soprano.
omg! 😂😂
@@francisca1378 ua-cam.com/video/3-vn6dC3C38/v-deo.html
@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 oh my god, that is so weird. He sounds like he is clearing his throat at the beginning. But really I do prefer those high notes to his usual singing, so maybe he really is a soprano… ahah
@@BaroneVitellioScarpia1 Then we have this ua-cam.com/video/hNgWcqAczs8/v-deo.html
You are still immature and lying, as usual. When will you actually start telling the truth and being mature? Your trick has gotten old to those with ears and sense.
This is an entirely accurate analysis but is rendered as one unfair simply because it presents on behalf of del Monaco what just may be the singularly most spectacular, verging on inhuman, performance containing what just might be the most thrilling single note ever recorded. As to modern opera's stars, it really would be nice if they would take a lesson from the likes of del Monaco and Callas and at least try to sing the vowel as it would be spoken, and not resort to the seemingly irresistible temptation to sing every a, i, o or u (they can usually blast a pretty clear e) as if it were written as an "ohh" an "ehh" or an "awe". Still, no matter, you got to hand it to old iron lungs del Monaco, his voice, his acting, his presence, the guy was the total package.
Почему youtube чинит препятствия при размещении справедливого комментария профессионала в сфере искусства? Это уже перебор. В политике препятствуете, теперь до искусства добрались. В Италии belcanto всегда можно было обсуждать, ведь иначе не будет стремления к совершенству!
Kauffman opens his mouth but the mouth does not form the words or vovewls like MDM
Kauffman es realmenteun invento, para quien haya escuchado en vivo a Tucker, Gedda, Bergonzi por no citar más que algunos de los que realmente cantaban. Una pobrísima técnica y una voz pequeña que no "corre" producto del oscurecimiento artificial de su voz. Si Del Monaco es más o menos sutil en su canto, es harina de otro costal.
Pero Kauffman, no existe al lado de los que fueron realmente grandes.
Producto mediático de estos tiempos como tantos otros.
si usted lo dice será así. no vamos a cambiarle las orejas al burro para hacerlo pasar por caballo. ni que lo intentaramos. por favor! el solo hecho de afirmar absurdos ubican su conocimiento en el tema y para mi su alocución es francamente impecable e inimputable.
Totalmente de acuerdo.
.....There can be no comparison, especially as vocal potential is concerned. The technical quality of the two voices leads to only one correct judgment. MDM produces his big natural voice with impliciteness, round over the entire dynamic range. A big voice remains big, from pp to ff. Mr. Kaufmanns voice always sounds artificially formed and uneven over the range. This has nothing to do with the person Jonas Kaufmann or his success. Who am I to criticize audiences applauding to him? However it doesn’t make the singing any better.
Mr. Kaufmann tries to be a good Kaufmann, that’s it. He certainly knows all the great predecessors, however he would be a fool to „compete“ with any of them. If he tried e.g. Otello like MDM, he would end voiceless the same evening. His only way to success was to develop a sound attractive to the people and the market, a microphone voice, often crooning. He lately tried Vienna Songs, however his voice lacks everything necessary for that typical sound. Voices and demands have changed since the times of MDM s Golden Era. Obviously into a questionable direction.
MDM and FC e.g. had the appearance plus the voice. Mr Kaufmann is vocal Hermaphrodit to his critics. Comparing him to MDM is a kind of unfair. It is only useful in pointing out to the top level „Cantare“ in former times. It is comparing a friendly housecat to a powerful lion. There hasn’t been a successor so far. So let’s hope for the future. RDS
Actually he thinks Del Monaco and Corelli are flawed singers
@@oliverdelica2289 ...if he really pretends that, he must be out of his mind. I actually heard his statement about his own present voice quality: Better than ever. Unbelievable! RDS
@@mk5244 ROFL 🤣🤣
Hm what do you mean by he lacks the sound for the Vienna songs, like the Max Raabe sound?
@@username45739 song singing is actually very revealing, exposes shortcomings starkly as well as a great potential showcase for expressivity and flexibility and versatility that comes from great technique. unfortunately, most audiences are not very discriminating about that either. They hear a pretty song that they know well and they’re swept away in emotions by just two notes of the worst crooning
Ma che paragone inutile....non si può mettere a confronto kaufman con Del Monaco......quel falsetto a fine romanza e come se kaufman fosse stato sodomizzato....🤣🤣
"sodomizzato" !!! sto morendo 😂😂😂😂
@@francisca1378 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@francisca1378 Infatti, c è da ridere😂😂
Kaufmann sembra un vitello sgozzato, pessimo tenore degli anni 2000.
bravo,molto carino il suo commento...e devo dire che è assolutamente vero!!!
la vocalità di Del Monaco,qui in Italiano,non è paragonabile a nessuno o a pochi!!! figuriamoci ad un prodotto odierno con una voce ingolata e mezze voce udibili solo con microfono...se ascoltiamo il LAb smorzato che esegue Del Monaco in quest'aria,si ha la perfetta dimensione di come si eseguono i piani ,anche se Del Monaco li usava raramente...grazie
Kaufmann´s voice sounds at the back of his throat somehow, I dont dislike the sound per se, but sometime it sounds as he was muted. In any case, his voice sounds tired
Voce ingolata = throated voce. Produces an unfocused, woofy, yawn-like tone in the vouce.
Kauffman: mooooooo, mooooooo , moooo. Moing Calf
No se puede comparar un océano con un charco!
Thanks for your work and analysis, very knowledgeable!
What do you think about Yulia Lezhneva?
Марио Дель Монако это глыба, титан, легенда. Замены пока нет. А раз нет таких как Дель Монако и Франко Корелли,то Кауфман поёт как бы хорошо. Зато он красивый.
ага. И Нетребко мычит. За то красивая
Стандарты не только пения рухнули, но и красоты. Если Кауфман красивый, то я Дель Монако
E Corelli non era bello? E anche Del Monaco, più bassino ma da giovane davvero bello.
@@alotMizr Говорят,что он красивый,а я не спорю. Зачем? Для меня красивый,это Корелли.
MDM = greatest dramatic tenor of post ww2. Peerless technic, emission as a sunlight in all the theater. In one word, magical!
JK = a former lyric tenor with technical problems who always dreamed he was a second Vickers (with a little size and body).
Fake darkened voice who doesn t project because throaty.
Even Ramon Vinay in decline had more voice than him.
Result, Mario of course!
Stecie did NO wonder:
Vinay is dead, del Monaco is also dead.
Kaufmann is alive.
So what will you do?
Vickers NEVER sung Werther in French language in Paris!
Vickers had a rough voice.
@@achmedmohamed4708 and so what?
Caravaggio, Rafaello, Michelangelo are also dead but their art will live forever.
Same for the great singers of the past.
Of course Kofman is alive and so what?
@@zs1968
Yes.
This painters were great
But also they don`t paint longer!
@@achmedmohamed4708 I know but their art will live forever.
What we can find today is another story.
@Barone Vitellio Scarpia
Old school, new school.
There is only ONE school of singing!
The right one which pleases the ear of a listener.
The singing of Callas pleases only the gay boys, not the real hetero men!
I have 60 years of international experiences with this!
Vickers had a rought voice!
Vickers had a small repertoire!
Kaufmann always sounds, as if he is swallowing his tongue. What did the great Franco Bonisolli say about the three „Tenors“: „Brutto, antiestetico, schlecht“
WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE AND A BIG THANKS FOR THIS VIDEO. THIS IS SUPER VERY CLEAR AND AMAZING!!!!! MOST MODERN SINGERS WILL NEVER EVER UNDERSTAND OR TAKE THIS SERIOUS!!! That is why they have such grotesque undeveloped voices today singing opera and making a full mess of it. Modern Vocal Pedagogues teaching absolute rubbish everywhere so hard to find the very correct and right teachers. WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE!!!! THE VIDEO SPEAKS VOLUMES.
Kaufmanns Stimme ist dumpf und langweilig. Er wird Del Monaco niemals das Wasser reichen können. Del Monacos Stimme ist strahlend wie Diamant, einzigartig, eben eine Klasse für sich. Ich werde nie verstehen, weshalb Kaufmann als einer der besten Tenöre gilt.
❤️❤️❤️❤️
Das sehe ich genauso.
Letztens eine Aufnahme des Lohengrin mit Kaufmann gehört, schrecklich.
Peter Hofmann ist ein viel besserer Wagnertenor.
@@koryos4273 das liegt vllt auch daran, dass die Sänger heutzutage alles singen müssen, ob sie die stimmlichen Voraussetzungen haben oder nicht, das spielt keine Rolle. Ich finde es furchtbar. Del Monaco hat z. B. nie Donizetti gesungen, als tenore drammatico völlig undenkbar.
….meine persönliche Meinung: Es gibt kaum welche. Dann ist der Einäugige König im Land der Blinden. „Ei nun, er wagt´s,“ wie es in den Meistersingern heißt. JK ist jedoch auch kein überzeugender Stolzing. Wie auch? Unvergleichliche(s) zu vergleichen, machte noch nie Sinn. Wer mich jedoch fragt, weshalb nach meiner Auffassung JK ein Sinnbild für die Mittelmäßigkeit des Tenor-Gesangs ist, sollte die alten und ja längst von uns gegangenen Meister ihres Fachs anhören. Die werden für alle Zeiten gehört werden. Was von Herrn Kaufmann bleibt, mögen zukünftige Generationen von Hörern beurteilen. Mein Verdikt hat sich über die Jahre nicht (mehr) verändert. Beste Grüße
@@grunaubaby probably because they can’t survive financially otherwise
Comparar que???????????????
Mario Del Monaco es impar!!!
Preferisco di gran lunga Jonas Kaufmann... Non c'è paragone nonostante l'indubbia bravura di Del Monaco. È una questione di interpretazione: Kaufmann capisce perfettamente che quell' acuto deve essere sfumato, dolcissimo, non sparato come fa Del Monaco, più che altro per mettere in mostra la sua voce...
The root cause is Kaufmann's
More than 80% of the vocal cords are closed. This is the root cause. Mario del Monaco is held open with force (humans don't know this yet, only that the diaphragm supports the breath), and the physiological phenomena Francisca is talking about are caused by the closure of the vocal cords.
Can somebody tell me the name of the aria at 6:40 and the person singing it?
It is mario del monaco singing meco all'altar di venere (the last part of it that starts "me protegge, me difende"), here is the video ua-cam.com/video/IH-4qoD1a4Y/v-deo.html
You cannot compare these two... It is also a matter of approach here. Kaufmann sings this with a partial falsetto to apply the diminuendo at the end... Del Monaco just uses sheer power. Del Monaco also would not be able to sing some of the lyric parts with grace as Kaufmann can. As far as the voice Mario is untouchable, but I woud not listen to some stuff that his voice is not suited for.
It's not really fair to compare JK to Del Monaco
its not really fair that some young person who doesn’t know better will save up to buy a 250€ ticket for a jonas kaufmann performance (because if he is in it, the price doubles...) simply because they are being lied to by the opera houses and tricked into thinking kaufmann is a good tenor.....
@@francisca1378 There doesn't seem much of a choice today except for the leggero and lyric tenor group. Kaufman's middle voice always seemed peculiar and now at 55 years of age, there doesn't seem much hope that anything will change. I'm not a fan of JK but I do think there was or is some sincerity in his performances. After all, I don't think He intentionally wanted to sound peculiar. Even Alagna at age 57 seems like his vocal line is all shot up, but He still singing
@@sugarbist ya im not saying Kaufmann is like....evil. I think he is just part of the system. Honestly he is kind of a ‘victim’ of the sysytem himself in the sense that if he were born 50 years earlier he would have had better guidance in developing his natural talents (which I believe he does have!) and probably would have become a fair tenor. Same goes for many modern opera singers, even Netrebko. All wasted talent in my opinion....
@@francisca1378 Netrebko has been singing for about 25 years and her voice is wobbling as evidenced in a Adriana LeCouvreur performance last year with Beczala. But she will continue to sing off of her popularity. In My Opinion, she has sung too many heavy roles that are not suited for her, but 25 years is still a long career.
@@sugarbist definitely, she is a light soprano. When she was younger she definitely showed natural talent, but a dramatic soprano… she is not! I heart her as Lady Macbeth… it sounded like someone making fun of opera.
Kaufman not in the same class, nowhere near,he sounds muffled,cloudy,but he does sing the end of the aria the way it was composed,mario lets it rip at the end and is playing to the audience,i know which i prefer and thats mario
Darker than any italian tenor??? Hahaha and people forget about Franco Corelli in Carmen huge B flat plus the diminuendo that he is doing in Aida is to put Kaufmann and all the other new tenor fools to shame hahahhah
It’s painful to listen and to watch JK sings. No wonder the quality of modern opera production are poor and it’s not worthy to spend a few hundred pounds for those ‘celebrity’s opera singers’ ( they are not artist, they are celebrity).
I know MdM had an amazing voice, but i have found him to be a pedestrian musician. Vickers was a better artist, in my opinion. It may seem like a strange comparison but i see an analogy between MdM and Pavarotti-- both of them had absolute vocal control, but neither was an outstanding musician
Now that I can agree with
Ha la voce chiusa nella gola. Nulla sul fiato. È un paragone assurdo che non regge. Kaufmann è un pessimo tenore.
OK, but are we just going to ignore the pianissimo dynamic for the high note??
Yeah, that’s definitely worth noting. However, an appropriate dynamic level is possible without coming off of the voice and losing that clear core. MDM did not always choose to attempt this, but Franco Corelli was one who could if he chose to. The end of Corelli’s Celeste Aida shows exactly this ability. It’s really difficult though. The question is would you rather hear, in this instance, a pianissimo or a voice with core and clarity? I can excuse coming off the voice to achieve this dynamic here IF the voice demonstrates core and clarity elsewhere, but Jonas doesn’t really ever have that.
I do think this video kind of misdiagnoses what is going on with the high note, because obviously Kaufmann can sing high notes louder than that. The loudness isn’t so much the point being made, but comparing it to MDM just not giving a shit about the dynamic does make for a weird comparison.
These videos are incredibly pseudo intelligent. Such a high note at pianissimo dynamic while forcing a decrescendo is so much more difficult (especially during a full show) than singing a high note fortissimo and on one dynamic. The things that really put me off were the modern stylistic choices (movements, interpretations, etc.), which do end up causing singers to use different sounds. The “muffled” note Kaufmann sang didn’t have much ring, but it was also warm and a nice sound. It wasn’t off pitch, it was audible, and it didn’t mess up the following notes. It was pleasant to listen to, that’s what really matters. These same youtube critics will hail hvorostovsky (who I think sounded great btw), who has so much less ring and ping to his voice than majority of other baritones/bass baritones. Is it bad? No, it’s a different sound and very possibly selective.
@@yuujoupop Totally agree. While I am not a fan of Kaufmann's overdarkened sound, the idea that he is "incapable of producing a robust high note" is preposterous. And while his high note in this aria isn't great, at least he's making an effort to observe the composer's indicated dynamic. Too many tenors just blast away at this note.
I love Del Monaco, he did not have the same ability to sing softer dynamics that other great tenors did.
I got to hear Hvorostovsky live a couple times and wasn't a fan for the reason you cite - in person the voice has little squillo and is in my opinion rather mundane.
@Ricciuto1980 when DH was quite young the voice was not husky or covered and was quite pleasant. I could understand how he won a competition.
This is an aria from Norma? 6:40 Looks like the style. I know perfectly all Norma's cabalettas and arias, but for the soprano, not the tenor 😂
it is!
un tenore immortale ed un tenore mediocre!...si nota palesemente, la grandezza dell'uno e la mediocrità dell'altro!...grazie
I can sing both, so I know the difference.
Del Monaco's bellow isn't really a fair comparison to Kaufmann's 'precious' diminuendo. He CAN do a 'look at me' high note, but that isn't always the musical choice.
Sí, más allá de lo técnico, de lo que no puedo opinar, Del Mónaco es muy heroico en su final, y en este aria el sentimiento es más acorde con el pianissimo de Kaufman. Es solo una opinión.
The point is that Kaufmann’s interpretation is fair enough, but executed weakly.
ahahahahahah che comicità dilettantistica...
Muggito!!! mi sembra che capisca di tecnica,la meta di uno che non capisce nulla.....
but I think the point of the discussion is not artistic choice, but the quality of the sound production. I think the author offered examples of beautiful quiet singing like that of John Vickers. He did exactly the same artistic take as Kaufman but did it with sound quality and technique
Pourquoi ne pas comparer 2 versions françaises ?
There is a one meaning reason to sing this b flat in falsetto- it is a risk to have your voice cracked as well as it is in Celeste Aida. I suggest as a young singer that these way to the high note contains difficulties as many as hell: to begin the low note on pianissimo and make crescendo to the top. It’s like shifting gears, the only one is right, not lower, not higher. Even for Del Monaco this phrase is not so easy as it seems, but he manages just magnificent. Kaufman is known for me by his way to sing 50% of Celeste Aida in falsetto, that’s it
Isn't the note written to be sung quietly?
Yes, it is. And so is the note at the end of Celeste Aida, but only Kaufmann, Corelli, and Bergonzi have been able to do it successfully (of the ones I've heard).
@@brandonjla5190 I think Gedda does this? Beecham version.
@@hobhood7118 I've heard that Gedda COULD do it, but I don't remember if he did or not on that recording, I'll have to give it another listen.
@@hobhood7118 quiet does not mean no voice
Paragonare Kauffman e Del Monaco è come paragonare la merda e l'oro puro! Bravo Mario!!!
encore un commentaire vraiment très rigolo..
James McCracken also sag the final passage in falsetto voce also
I have never cared for Kaufmann and for the reasons you specify and I don't find him sexy either,so it's a lose-lose situation for him.🤣🤣
perché si fanno questi paragoni?
Perhaps out of spite ... perhaps the video compilers pride themselves on being experts about voices, singing, and technique ... There is a common strand running through these videos of critical singing analysis and comparisons, of discussions: all opera singers of the past were great, excellent, and perfect. By contrast, today's opera singers are all puny and pathetic (they don't know how to really sing, they have terrible technique, etc.).
@@JLFAN2009 But the real question is whether it's true, no? Maybe it is? I can definitely hear the difference, but i also happen to think new talent may appear that brings things back to where they were.. you never know
No se puede hacer esta comparación. estamos evaluando una voz educada, con una paleta de colores inigualable en el presente y si miramos para atrás también única, con uno de los mejores tenores de la historia como Del Mónaco que tenia un vozarrón pero sin el menor refinamiento. para Mario cantar era echar chorros de voz descomunales por su boca y para quienes amamos el canto lírico sabemos que cantar es otra cosa mucho más dificil y requiere además de lo que madre natura da, un gran entrenamiento y dedicación.
Mario siempre lo dijo. yo no soy cantante soy pintor pero si me dedicaba a pintar cuadros me iba a morir de hambre. Kaufmann es desde el punto de vista de técnica de canto impecable, desde el punto de vista del color bruñido de su voz, único y desde su vena actoral inigualable. La prensa londinense por algo en estas épocas de la Carmen con Anotonacci dijo que era el De Niro de la lírica y no se equivocaron en absoluto. Fue, es y será único como Mario del Mónaco en su repertorio y en su rendimiento sonoro tambien lo fue, lo es y lo seguirá siendo. Estamos comparando, como dijo alguna vez Callas "champain con coca-cola". ninguno de los dos divos se lo merecen. Uno porque ya es una gloria inmortal y el otro porque nunca se ha jactado de parecerse a otro cantante excepto a si mismo. Y el resto va en gustos y como para gustos, los colores, cada cual tiene derecho a alinear con quien mejor le plazca.
Al menos en canto lírico se debe comparar tres cosas si se quiere sacar algo en claro: calidad vocal, técnica y versatilidad. Kaufmann y del Monaco no tienen nada de parecido en ninguna de las tres cosas.
Tenías que escuchar a Kaufmann en directo ,sin amplificadores, que suele pedir para muchos teatros, cambiarias completamente tu opinión.
Noto cierto fanatismo injustificado por Kauffman. Su técnica no es buena, engola la voz, los pianissimi son muy malos, y no alcanza las notas altas con la seguridad necesaria. Son totalmente incomparables, Del Mónaco es un Dios del canto, Kauffman, un buen tenor como tantos otros en la historia, que va a pasar sin pena ni gloria a la posteridad.
@@santiagocasamassima4963 Me podría responder técnicamente como justificaría usted que una laringe a 23 cm de los labios puede producir engolamiento? salvo Kaufmann, ningún cantante actual ni siquiera los wagnerianos más reputados del momento pueden mantener tal relajación de laringe, inmovil, durante toda la emisión en una opera de hora y media de duración ni en una de cuatro horas. así que salvo que me explique como eso puede ser posible, descarto el engolamiento que seguramente lo leyó varias veces pero no se puso a meditar siquiera de qué se trata. los pianisimos de Kaufmann puede que no le gusten pero es el único ternor de los últimos 40 años que los produce, el resto no. Del Monaco, Corelli, etc han sido enormes cantantes pero yo no me atrevería a compararlos con Kaufmann si considerase que Kaufmann no se lo merece. Yo no comparo la coca-cola con el champain, si lo hiciera estoy favoreciendo la comparación y como tal estoy tratando de buscar donde no se parecen. La verdad Kaufmann en calidad de canto supera a esos monstruos que son enormes por lo que han dado pero no son los únicos cantantes porque tampoco tenían una técnica buena, solo tenían un dominio de la gola a escala superlativa. hay una gran diferencia entre un emisor de caudales de voz y un cantante lirico. un cantante lirico no se lo mide siquiera por el volumen sino con lo que puede hacer con su voz.
Domingo vs Del Monaco please
what is the correct tongue position asking for a friend and also cause in the few videos of del monaco and friends that i've seen the tongue seems to be resting behind the bottom teeth. please advise sorry for no punctuation
this is very important question. The tongue should NOT be behind the teeth, it should be pulled back away from the teeth and arched in the mouth (basically, if you do this, it keeps the larynx low and the jaw down, or conversely, if you have your larynx low and your jaw down, your tongue will naturally go into this position).
There is one of those This is Opera! videos about this, which I found really helpful (generally Mario del Monaco really shows well where the tongue should be … don't know why maybe just the shape of his mouth, you can see into it well, ahah).
ua-cam.com/video/Sn7iWDL64Z8/v-deo.html
At the end of the video, they show a diagram of how the tongue should be, which should help you visualize it.
Basically, if you put your tongue against the bottom of the teeth, it will lie more flat in the mouth, which will cause problems (like Kaufmann, or Netrebko is another example of someone whose tongue is lying flat in their mouth).
I hope that helps! :)
@@francisca1378 I wish I could heart your comment. Thanks fam ❤️
@@andress4780 glad it helped!! 😊
@@francisca1378 👌👌👏👌👏👏👌👏👌👏👌👏👌👏👌👌👏👏👌👏👌👌👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👍👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍VERY CORRECT!!!! WELLDONE WELLDONE WELLDONE!!!
Listen to Nikola Nikolov to understand what is a relatively Don Jose.
Mario !!!
Kauffmann meows not singing 🤣
Muy buen vídeo, has ejemplificado de forma ilustrativa lo que hemos visto todos estos años nefastos para la ópera. Kaufmann lo han puesto a cantar como ‘tenor’ con una voz que no es la suya , respaldado por una técnica pésima. Por ahí existe una grabación de este señor Kaufmann con su verdadera voz como un tenor mozartiano, lo hace muy bien. Pero alguien lo vio guapo y lo aupó a cantar roles que no son ni para su tesitura vocálica, ni para su interpretación, el resultado ha sido una deformación de los grandes repertorios, el daño ya está hecho. Y, ahí por ahí quién compara a Kaufmann con Carusso, madre mía! El fin del canto lírico. Gracias.
it’s difficult to make a living as an opera singer audiences are not discriminating enough to even help you make a living by sticking to what you know. Another words they’re not going to say oh that Kaufman sounds great in Mozart, so I’ll go see him in Mozart more often so that it can pay his bills.
plus of course regi theatre doesn’t help. they want sexy actors who can do shirtless scenes, not some fatty on stage. It’s the current culture
But he said he changed his technique not due to choice but necessity because it was unsustainable and making him hoarse.
Обоим певцам кульминационная нота не доставляет удовольствия.
НУ ЧТО СРАВНИВАТЬ ИТАЛЬЯНЦА С НЕМЦЕМ !
Немцы бы оскорбились, но мы же не немцы 😂
Кауфман еврей
0:56 no hay voz
Del Monaco was a true baritenor. Manly voice
Better than any baritone and tenor from nowadays.
Please use your ears and listen carefully again.
Kaufman non esiste a paragone di del Monaco
Del Monaco lo ha spiegato benissimo rispondendo in te a una domanda di una spettatrice. Non faceva i pianissimi perchè una volta che lo ha fatto è rimasto senza voce. La sua tecnica semplicemente non glielo permetteva ed è stato molto onesto. Definirlo solo muscolare è sbagliato. Ma anche dire che Kaufmann sia scarso è sbagliato. Un altro tipo di voce, un emissione “strana” sembra ingolfato come Josè Cura tanto per fare un esempio, ma a differenza del tenore argentino Kaufmann ha un altra voce ed è sicuramente un artista che cerca di far quello che è scritto nello spartito vedi la Carmen di Bizet nell’aria del fiore dove il compositore prevede di smorzare l’acuto, cosa che purtroppo Del Monaco non poteva fare, cosa che Corelli viste le sue performance in Aida è in Tosca poteva fare e che stranamente almeno in disco non ha fatto con Karajan.
Sono due artisti diversi, poi certo sul piano vocale la voce di Del Monaco è stata unica, solo Corelli nel campo del tenore drammatico poteva eguagliarlo.
Of course Kauffman sounds artificial, ingollato, strange and all that, and of course Del Monaco has a big voice and naturally produced, all right, but the phrase ON THE SCORE is written, from the B FLAT in the middle to the high B flat, "PP RALLENTANDO" ... NOW, I personally don't like Kauffman at all, neither Del Monaco, but, THEY SHOULD BOTH TRY AND SING THE SCORE, not what is best for them.
Del Monaco hatte eine Stimme, die mit "Forte Noten" beeindruckt, aber il Passaggio, die Überbrückung von Forte ins Piano/Pianissimo, war immer seine Schwäche (das wurde auch oft, selbst von italienischen Kritikern kommentiert). Man kann diese Stelle nicht so wie ein Krieger der zeigen will "guck mal wie stark ich bin!" singen. Er muss hier Gefühle zeigen und gerade das tut er nicht. Der Karakter ist am Boden zerstört, er offenbart gerade seine intimsten Gefühlen...Ein Opersänger muss interpretieren können, nicht nur gut singen. Auf italienisch heißt: "essere in grado di metterci nei panni del personaggio". Das kann del Monaco nicht. Das hier ist eine von vielen kritischen Stellen für ihn wo er null Sensibilität zeigt. "Dio! Mi potevi scagliar..." bei Otello genauso. Da macht er Rezitation statt piano singen. "Un trono vicino al sol" genauso. Da ist Verdi explodiert. Auch in seiner Zeit viele Sänger haben diese Stelle mit Fortissimo gesungen. Er schreibt das auch in seiner Korrespondenz mit Giuglio Ricordi. Die Arie muss mit einem Piano ins "morendo" enden und nicht mit Fortissimo.
historically it has been sung forte from the 1900s till the 60s ,you can hear pretty much everyone singing it forte, regardless of the score. Singers used to take poetic licenses back then, and I'll tell you what, they had all the rights with their voices.
@@nelihelms2719 but morendo implies a vocal sound with reducing volume, not a choked sounding buzzing. Where’s the voice? If you can’t sing that way, then sing a little louder at least that would be honest. Otherwise it’s like he’s cheating the audience because this is no longer singing. Anybody can make a sound like that.
@@comment6864 The singer must be honest also with the composer/score. Only because the composer cann't react, it doesn't mean that the singer can sing free and can show all his skills with the voice, regardless the wish of the composer. Kaufmann said in an Interview: " First of all, we must be advocate of the composer"
One decides to sing "Toi" forte completely out out of style, the others tries and succeeds to give it shape and musicality. It's not Mario. Sure, Mario has the bigger voice, and sure, he's almost inhuman. But for DJ? I'll take Kaufmann any day over Del Monaco.
but that’s not quiet singing it’s a choked buzzing. Anybody can produce that sound. Why would we call it opera and pay money to hear it. It feels like fakery and feels a little insulting. I think that’s why people complain.
@@comment6864 They're wrong to complain. If anyone could do it, everyone would do it. Singing always loud is easy. I'm a baritone, I should know. Putting in colors, that's the art.
São dois grandes em suas respectivas épocas....amo os dois.
Sure Del Monaco is an established opera god, etc, but I like Kaufman better in this song. Del Monaco had the gigantic voice and he knew how to display it to full advantage, but bigger is not always better for everything. The Flower Song is about exquisite pain and fragility, and I think Kaufman does the more appropriate interpretation here. Kaufman's voice is way too dark and we shouldn't like it, and yet Many of us find it utterly intoxicating anyway. I am a fan of both of these gentlemen.
There is a proper way to sing the song more with more "fragility" than del Monaco and it isn't what Kaufmann is doing - I used Vickers as a better example and his falsetto note (Kaufmann is obviously imitating Vickers generally with the way he interprets parts… albeit poorly). It isn't about what someone subjectively likes better, its a question of correct technique.
@@francisca1378 Thanks for that! I love it that we have access to all these different versions of singers and songs. Some days I may be moved by a performance and not care about technique. Some days my focus is on the technique and I get pleasure from admiring the skill involved. Deviations from "correct technique" don't necessarily rule out my complete enjoyment. Probably I don't know enough about singing.
@@anotheryou218 but the problem is that when an audience is so not discriminating we don’t even have any proper technique left Vickers passed away a few years ago
In maniera diversa : due cani .
Del Monaco INSUPERABILE
Wrong. He has been - more than once. Listen to Leo Slezak.
Delmonaco todo era fuerte nunca pianos, pianisimo, diminuendos jamás, Kaufmann si, eh ahí la diferencia
Del Monaco sang in mezza voce quite often.
Corelli sí , diminuendos nunca fueron el plato fuerte de Mario del Mónaco.
Un gran disminuendo en el si b,de Jonas,algo que john vickers lograba,mario casi se queda afónico, al terminar el agudo así que kauffman gano
Se parla di John Vickers ha ragione egli ha eseguito un grande Sib piano...se parla di Del Monaco che ha perso la voce è falso!!! Come è falsa la vocalità di Kaufmann...saluti
kaufman sucks
My God Mario in Pollione is sooooo incredible 🤩😍