The nicest stack injection system I've ever seen was the one on the Garage 56 Nascar. The throttles and rod ends were all inside the air box so dirt doesn't make them crunchy over time. Also, if a fuel rail leaks or if mist spits out of the throttles, it stays contained.
The stack injection looks like they are Weber IDA carbs, which came in 46 and 48mm sizes. I used to use 48s but went up to 52s ( which are available nowadays) and picked up 30hp on a 4 cylinder. My point is that the bore size of the stacks should be increased to produce more power.
@@cartermackenzie1135 The car weighs less than 700kgs and originally had 24hp and 2 cylinders so now with 250hp and 4 cylinders the drivability is fine😊
I run 8 ITBs in a stack setup just like this, fuel injected. Engine is a 452 cu. in. FE with 248/254 SR cam. The stacks are too small for the engine, but the engine made more hp and torque everywhere compared to a Victor intake with a 850 Mighty Demon carb. The throttle response is epic. It was a lot more work, but the results were worth it.
@@richardholdener1727 The engine is in my classic 1968 Mustang fastback. The car has full interior and a roll bar. The car runs 7.1 sec in the 1/8 mile. To make the car more streetable, I detuned the cam from 248/256 on a 110 to 240/246 on a 114. This fixed a flat spot from 900 rpm to 1500 rpm. The EFI is run by a megasquirt. The engine would benefit from a 52 mm or a 58 mm ITB, but they don't fit the intake manifold. I use a Ford PW idle valve to control the idle. It is plumbed into the common intake plenum present on the Blue Thunder intake. This makes matching the throttle blades less critical. Idles smoothly at 650 rpm, 700 with the AC on.
@@turbo32coupe- I thought so, as an automatic would have a Tq., converter to cover up that flat spot. But not with a stick, causing a direct lug down, while releasing a clutch. Also did you, or did someone else, get you to go to a 114 Lobe sep.? As a lower Lobe sep., would have helped more, in the Low end Tq. production, and all over really.
I'd say Simply put a call in to Jim Inglese, He is the absolute guru on Stack systems. I've had one of his systems on a supercharger and it was unreal! Keep in mind that its very easy to over cam a system like this. Good video Rich.
Crossram manifold or hillborn style out the bonnet, matched to itb or those weber things, tapered down to match port will beat that short manifold anytime. Itb tunnel ram like. Problem is. If you want to filter it and airbox it . You lose alot of the benefits. Can do but. You want an airbox and in take to it huge. Ie, use the whole spare space under bonnet, huge untakes to it, get close to ambiant air, less of a plenum then. They make a wild cam quite docile and tractable too.
IR's if the throttle blades are big enough almost always work better than a "manifold" and you proved that the other day when you tested that EFI setup sans top and made another 20hp.
Thanks Richard! I have always hoped you would look at this type of induction. That actually went pretty close to what I would have guessed. I am curious if you feel like the lower intake was wrung out of every bit of flow or do you think there is still more potential left in increasing port flow? Also, have you ever run the side draft style manifolds? I am really curious about them. My guess would be even more low end torque with a slight decrease of high rpm HP. Great content! Always excited to see Ford content!
I am currently looking into buying a replica Cobra… probably Superformance… and it seems whenever someone has the 8 stack injection… they sell for a lot more. Whether or not it makes more power or not… it’s the look people want in the Cobra world
@@richardholdener1727 Oh I thought you said youd done the best you could with what you had, but that a different designed manifold, with more flow built in, wouldve been better.
I would look for some dynos on the Speedmaster and Borla ITBs. My engine guy said even my Speedmaster manifold looked really good for flow. My bet is the Borlas are even better. But cliffs notes they both show great gains. Richard has done other ITB videos.
Don't know much about efi injection but used cf enderles a far bit best effort 406 chev crower flat tappet 258 263 108 13.5 sportsman irons factory 4 bolt 9. 15 with a 1/2 pump and NO high speed alky and a vertex mag simple but killer out of the hole. 😊
It depends on the assembly. A high-level precision engine needs to have the rod ends adjusted periodically. You're gonna want something like Garage 56 did where the rod ends are under the air filter so they stay clean and run smoothly.
Request - one with the displacement and or rpm (along with cylinder heads/package to support it) but with the Kinsler setup with the big ass K&N like you see on sprint cars and trophy trucks. With and without the air box. Does it act like a plenum? What's that look like? Note - yes TPMS map can be finicky. Some have used manifold pressure estimate tables for the tune (EFI).
@@danmyers9372 The sprint car stuff is mechanical but trophy truck stuff is EFI. As far as working on the street 😅 - maybe ya get away with it in a truck or something with lots of hood clearance (or you want it sticking out). It wouldn't package well with most applications. The filter is 7"×14"×19" and you're down a good bit on power without it. Kinsler makes all kinds of stuff but I just thought that was an interesting thing to see on the dyno.
I cant say how much it would act like a plenum but I gotta believe you still get the benefit of better idle and low speed throttle response if its all working and tuned right. My Speedmaster has a small common plenum to generate a better MAP signal. You still need to get all the throttles opening the same which is the big trick to all this. PS: mine is efi which helps too. I am sure carbs with itbs back in the day was a bit of a nightmare. Lol
I have been around bbc and sbc chevy drag car engine running stack injection on methanol makes more power than carburetor i have seen it with my on eyes for street i wouldn't waist my time or money on it
For the casual observer it looks like Weber IDAs. Which will make more power than this efi clone. Though no doubt run smoother. Simple 4bbl on a decent intake for application is better again
It was a while ago I think engine masters but anyway with a down draft style air cleaner it made more hoarse power than any other air cleaner. But I guess I'm just wondering has anyone ever tried a down draft style intake for anything injected?
Cool but how do you filter the air on a street driven car? I have seen the little foam pieces that cover each throttle body. Do those really filter the air properly? And how much power do they cost?
There's also systems that bolt a common plate onto each set of 4 stacks and puts a big "foam dome" over everything that doesn't restrict the flow as much, but it also doesn't look as cool
Everybody knows that tunnelram is the shit, seen a vid with improvment of 50 hp in a bench(dont remember if it was here), what about tunnelram and stacks? 🤔😉
That was like five “welcome to the channel, we’re talking about stack injection” segments. It’d be a pretty funny gag to just do that for 12 minutes and never get to the topic.
Thanks for SBF content, Richard 👍
The nicest stack injection system I've ever seen was the one on the Garage 56 Nascar. The throttles and rod ends were all inside the air box so dirt doesn't make them crunchy over time. Also, if a fuel rail leaks or if mist spits out of the throttles, it stays contained.
That 331 got a power curve like a centrifugal blower
The stack injection looks like they are Weber IDA carbs, which came in 46 and 48mm sizes. I used to use 48s but went up to 52s ( which are available nowadays) and picked up 30hp on a 4 cylinder. My point is that the bore size of the stacks should be increased to produce more power.
How was the drive ability?
@@cartermackenzie1135 The car weighs less than 700kgs and originally had 24hp and 2 cylinders so now with 250hp and 4 cylinders the drivability is fine😊
Great video Ford powered forever baby
I have a 363ci sbf and I am going with stack injection, your dyno comparison videos have definitely played a part in that. Thanks for all the info!
I run 8 ITBs in a stack setup just like this, fuel injected. Engine is a 452 cu. in. FE with 248/254 SR cam. The stacks are too small for the engine, but the engine made more hp and torque everywhere compared to a Victor intake with a 850 Mighty Demon carb. The throttle response is epic. It was a lot more work, but the results were worth it.
I did a test with these with Robert Pond on a 600+ hp FE
@@richardholdener1727 The engine is in my classic 1968 Mustang fastback. The car has full interior and a roll bar. The car runs 7.1 sec in the 1/8 mile. To make the car more streetable, I detuned the cam from 248/256 on a 110 to 240/246 on a 114. This fixed a flat spot from 900 rpm to 1500 rpm. The EFI is run by a megasquirt. The engine would benefit from a 52 mm or a 58 mm ITB, but they don't fit the intake manifold. I use a Ford PW idle valve to control the idle. It is plumbed into the common intake plenum present on the Blue Thunder intake. This makes matching the throttle blades less critical. Idles smoothly at 650 rpm, 700 with the AC on.
@@turbo32coupeIs this a stick shift trans., or an automatic? I assume stick shift trans., if you were worried about the 900 to 1500 Rpm flat spot?
@@evilinside5984 yes, Tremec T56 magnum. Changed the cam to 240/246 on a 114 LCA and that fixed the flat spot.
@@turbo32coupe- I thought so, as an automatic would have a Tq., converter to cover up that flat spot. But not with a stick, causing a direct lug down, while releasing a clutch. Also did you, or did someone else, get you to go to a 114 Lobe sep.? As a lower Lobe sep., would have helped more, in the Low end Tq. production, and all over really.
I'd say Simply put a call in to Jim Inglese, He is the absolute guru on Stack systems. I've had one of his systems on a supercharger and it was unreal! Keep in mind that its very easy to over cam a system like this. Good video Rich.
That 408 was constipated with those heads . It would be nice if Edelbrock or Trickflow would build a lower for those throtle bodies .
Tuned runner length stack injection makes me happy 😊
Stack injection looks cool, but I always get excited when I see dual Autolite inline 4 barrels
yes
Webers - two two-barrels in a line, so as to duplicate an inline Autolite Four-barrel….
Hell yeah brother this is what ive been looking for
Crossram manifold or hillborn style out the bonnet, matched to itb or those weber things, tapered down to match port will beat that short manifold anytime.
Itb tunnel ram like.
Problem is. If you want to filter it and airbox it .
You lose alot of the benefits.
Can do but. You want an airbox and in take to it huge.
Ie, use the whole spare space under bonnet, huge untakes to it, get close to ambiant air, less of a plenum then.
They make a wild cam quite docile and tractable too.
I personally would trade 10 or 15 low end foot pounds for 10 or 15 peak hoarse. Besides let's be honest almost nothing looks cooler
IR's if the throttle blades are big enough almost always work better than a "manifold" and you proved that the other day when you tested that EFI setup sans top and made another 20hp.
Thanks Richard! I have always hoped you would look at this type of induction. That actually went pretty close to what I would have guessed. I am curious if you feel like the lower intake was wrung out of every bit of flow or do you think there is still more potential left in increasing port flow? Also, have you ever run the side draft style manifolds? I am really curious about them. My guess would be even more low end torque with a slight decrease of high rpm HP. Great content! Always excited to see Ford content!
Holley stopped making Hilborn fuel injection. 😮💨
Besides looking good in a Cobra replica, put longer stacks on it, and throw it in a 60s Falcon gasser. YEE-HAW!
I am currently looking into buying a replica Cobra… probably Superformance… and it seems whenever someone has the 8 stack injection… they sell for a lot more. Whether or not it makes more power or not… it’s the look people want in the Cobra world
they do look cool
Mechanical Eye Candy 🍬
Hey Richard, are you still a fan of the speedmaster set up? I've not really heard good comments on them.
Certainly would be interesting to see what kind of power is made by a matched setup, where flow isnt restricted by the manifold
it wasn't in this case-we ported the lowers
@@richardholdener1727 Oh I thought you said youd done the best you could with what you had, but that a different designed manifold, with more flow built in, wouldve been better.
I would look for some dynos on the Speedmaster and Borla ITBs. My engine guy said even my Speedmaster manifold looked really good for flow. My bet is the Borlas are even better. But cliffs notes they both show great gains. Richard has done other ITB videos.
Who ported the lower, another great video
Tom
How about tunnel ram versus stack injection?
Don't know much about efi injection but used cf enderles a far bit best effort 406 chev crower flat tappet 258 263 108 13.5 sportsman irons factory 4 bolt 9. 15 with a 1/2 pump and NO high speed alky and a vertex mag simple but killer out of the hole. 😊
@petercunningham3469- What's a 9. 15 with a 1/2 pump?
My question is how reliable or maintenance free is the stack injection. I want to build a 331 for my 66 Mustang fastback.
It depends on the assembly. A high-level precision engine needs to have the rod ends adjusted periodically. You're gonna want something like Garage 56 did where the rod ends are under the air filter so they stay clean and run smoothly.
Request - one with the displacement and or rpm (along with cylinder heads/package to support it) but with the Kinsler setup with the big ass K&N like you see on sprint cars and trophy trucks.
With and without the air box. Does it act like a plenum? What's that look like?
Note - yes TPMS map can be finicky. Some have used manifold pressure estimate tables for the tune (EFI).
Is that Kinsler setup mechanical FI? If so that wouldn’t work very well on the street.
if it has a box-is acts as a plenum
@@danmyers9372 The sprint car stuff is mechanical but trophy truck stuff is EFI.
As far as working on the street 😅 - maybe ya get away with it in a truck or something with lots of hood clearance (or you want it sticking out). It wouldn't package well with most applications. The filter is 7"×14"×19" and you're down a good bit on power without it.
Kinsler makes all kinds of stuff but I just thought that was an interesting thing to see on the dyno.
I cant say how much it would act like a plenum but I gotta believe you still get the benefit of better idle and low speed throttle response if its all working and tuned right. My Speedmaster has a small common plenum to generate a better MAP signal. You still need to get all the throttles opening the same which is the big trick to all this. PS: mine is efi which helps too. I am sure carbs with itbs back in the day was a bit of a nightmare. Lol
I have been around bbc and sbc chevy drag car engine running stack injection on methanol makes more power than carburetor i have seen it with my on eyes for street i wouldn't waist my time or money on it
I wonder why more companies don't offer this tech
That little ford is hot!
For the casual observer it looks like Weber IDAs. Which will make more power than this efi clone. Though no doubt run smoother. Simple 4bbl on a decent intake for application is better again
why would Webers make more?
Boss, can you recommend a tuning / dyno shop out in the Torrance / Gardena area? Looking to tune a 02 suburban engine/transmission.
try PowerTrain Dynamics in Huntington Beach
@@richardholdener1727 Steve is the man for tuning and WELL worth the short drive from LA.
It was a while ago I think engine masters but anyway with a down draft style air cleaner it made more hoarse power than any other air cleaner. But I guess I'm just wondering has anyone ever tried a down draft style intake for anything injected?
Right on
Cool but how do you filter the air on a street driven car? I have seen the little foam pieces that cover each throttle body. Do those really filter the air properly? And how much power do they cost?
filters are an issue with stack too
@@richardholdener1727 they tend to kill the hp and tq.
There's also systems that bolt a common plate onto each set of 4 stacks and puts a big "foam dome" over everything that doesn't restrict the flow as much, but it also doesn't look as cool
Everybody knows that tunnelram is the shit, seen a vid with improvment of 50 hp in a bench(dont remember if it was here), what about tunnelram and stacks? 🤔😉
tunnel ram and IR are two distinct intake designs
That was like five “welcome to the channel, we’re talking about stack injection” segments. It’d be a pretty funny gag to just do that for 12 minutes and never get to the topic.
Waaaaaaaa🎉
Not a true stack system. A manifold from Kinsler or Hilborn would give different results.
Know anyone who sells the ford stack lower manifolds?
Borla, FAST
I wanna stack inject an ls
those vids are up
@@richardholdener1727 I saw, I just wanna do it lol
They shouldn’t be angled at 90 degrees, angled inward is much better
why
@@richardholdener1727 a much straighter path
@@richardholdener1727 i think the quad weber setups where the webers lay flat are much better for small block chevy but it doesn’t look as good
🥝✔️🙃
👍👍