What Makes Sonic Adventure 2's Story THE BEST?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
- Why Sonic Adventure 2 has the best story out of the whole series, and why other Sonic games should follow its example. An analysis of the game's story and each level as we go.
Watch Part 1:
• Why Sonic Adventure 2 ...
TWITCH ►: / ruby_of_blue
PATREON ►: / rubyofblue
DISCORD ►: / discord
TWITTER ►: / rubyofblue
DEVIANTART ►: rubyofblue.devi...
Recommended Mods:
Retranslated: gamebanana.com...
Fixed Sound Effect Volume: • Editing sound volume l...
Recommended Viewing:
• City Escape is Peak So...
• Why SA2B's cutscenes s...
• Nickon's Sonic Adventu...
• TOP 10 IMPROVEMENTS TH...
• Sonic dissected part 1
pastebin.com/3...
/ windiigitlord
SPECIAL THANKS TO PATRONS:
Vinvan Artsy
Fungo
AvoryBritish
Brandon Lameyer
Omni Discussions
Talmanaze
Doublajynxx
Levin
The Phoenix Library
XtremetuberVII
Korban22
GreenZangoose28
#sonicadventure #gameanalysis #sonicthehedgehog
I don't think I've ever loved a UA-cam video talking about SA2's story as much as this one.
There's no mixing up English translation issues as problems with Maekawa's writing and I like how you've explained the more subtle details, especially foreshadowing and the connections between Shadow and Sonic. It's a shame the stories the series pumps out these days have about as much depth put into them as like, a Family Guy episode.
I like how the details in the story play into the extra backstory from the Japanese strategy guide. Particularly everything raising the question whether the Shadow in SA2 was a replica or the original.
(IMO, I LOVE the idea of the former!! The report says that Shadow wasn't 100% complete when he was ejected and the capsule was never found, which provides an arguably more suitable subject than the Biolizard for the "original data" he mentions)
SA2 did far better than SA1 did at implementing those details. SA1 left out a lot of the Echidna backstory in-game, which is why you get people screaming about how the mural at the bottom of Lost World could exist and stuff. Hell, it didn't even give you the order of Tikal's flashbacks.
I noticed some of Hero intro's textures are broken in the vid: That's caused by pak files not being able to read uppercase characters. The converters should take care of it in the latest SA Tools, but you can also rename the textures yourself. E0011texture, E0118texture and E0122texture have the same issue.
(PS: Gerald's diary is what explains there being a sealed prototype to Knuckles)
Thank you so much for the kind words! The issues in the cutscenes were actually caused by a mod I was using at the time called "Dreamcast cutscene textures".
@@RubyofBlue Ooh. I don't recommend just having DC textures if you're looking for best quality, when it comes to cutscene textures SA2B isn't as clear cut as it is with SADX.
Sure, SA2B does suffer from the quality loss from changing formats (especially textures with Alpha) but there's quite a few that are higher quality in that version, like the Chao in Space billboard when Sonic meets Shadow. It happens more with larger textures (256x256+) than smaller ones.
A lot of the (not-tiny) cutscenes have lower quality textures in every version, so to find the best quality ones you have to find the best version of that texture, which is usually in a smaller cutscene or among the gameplay textures. For geometry it's usually a stage, but characters (other than Shadow I think) have higher quality textures in cutscenes than gameplay.
Is the info from the Japanese strategy guide uploaded online anywhere? Also what's this about a prototype knuckles?
Even as someone who doesn't like Family Guy, comparing the stories of Meta Era Sonic to Family Guy is an insult to Family Guy.
Ruby of Blue
I love how you perfectly explain the story soooooo Well,
I’m curious though, how would you rewrite Sonic Heroes if you could?
The game is fine to me and I like it, Metal Sonic returns was Awesome!
And the Introduction of E-123 Omega is really Cool,
so I’m Interested in knowing how you would change it?
(Thank you for reading.)🙏
I really wish furture Sonic games had Sonic portrayed like this. The difference between how Sonic acts in the Adventure era and the Modern era is the difference between someone who is bold and someone who is smug.
It's not even just smug, after the SECOND voice actor change, Sonic became incredibly arrogant and childish. He went from actually cool to being kid friendly Deadpool. It feels like the new writers had never actually played a Sonic game before, and you can especially see this with characters like Shadow who is essentially a Vegeta clone now, Tails being a total coward, and Knuckles having the IQ of a toddler. I love Colors and Generations and actually like Lost World, but they've totally raped all the characters personalities and previous character development arcs except for probably Amy.
It's funny how every time sonic's VA changes,his personality changes.
@@broom2839
To me Jason is the worst,Ryan made Sonic sound Natuarlly cool,and Roger sounds like a relaxed man,Jason sounds like He's trying to be so cool.
Aryan Descendant I can understand that case in terms of Jason's early years, but I strongly disagree in terms his later years (especially Unleashed and Black Knight)
@@dbzsonic1069
Oh yeah,I don't like his early years,where he tried to hard to be cool,however later years,he turned down.
You know a story is done right when you almost cry at someone RECAPPING the ending 😂 this game got me in the feels so bad that I get residuals every time I revisit it
“most aggressive enemy in SA2”
That’s not the artificial Chaos
japan: lets make shadow humble by saying "boku" to humble himself and being pure.
meanwhile american translator: haha lets make him say "I'm the coolest!"
Even without knowing how bad the localization actually is, I always thought "I'm the coolest!" was out of character and I couldn't quite put my finger on why.
This game made very clear it was the last Sonic game. There are many phrases in game that allude to that. We all can agree that Sonic games starting with Heroes have not been the same.
The fact a newbie to the series like me got so emotionally invested in the series with its characters and stories with especially how much they challenged my Mario and Pac-Man tainted perspective.
i genuinely hope Jeff Fowler and the Sonic movie writing team use this video for notes on Sonic 3 cause honestly, as much as i can imagine how hard of a sell and deep of a pivot it might be to go from 'comedy action' to something with this kind of dark subject matter ,this narrative deserves it. and i have never been so excited and fearful of a film in my life, this story means so much to so many people (me VERY much included) i just want to see it done justice
thanks for this video it further shows the deep symbolic lore behind SA2 which I wasn't able to grasp before
This is absolutely such a wonderfully insightful and detailed video that truly captures the love many feel for this game. From the actual game to what happened with the series and well, just everything! Thank you so much for making this! 😄🙏
This video is amazing, I'm so sick of pseudo intelligent youtubers trashing these games because it's trendy.
9:00 That....is actually a really good point. It would've been stupendous world building if future games kept referencing this moment. Along with the fact that the MOON was still destroyed. (No, Sonic X, Eggman reconstructing the moon with massed nanobots is not a good way to handwave such a major change to the world away)
Man oh *MAN* is it refreshing to see a positive take on this game for once! I was starting to think I was crazy for enjoying this game as much as I do, holding its story up as the pinnacle of the whole series.
It's *so* nice to see it's not just me...
Good god I already loved the story for SA2, but these 2 reviews showed the little details I never noticed, this just makes me love this game even more then before.
Rouge saving that turtle is pretty wholesome
Thank you for putting that Sonic/Shadow confusion into context. I never thought of that moments in that kind of context.
I made my english presentation this week i guess, bout echidnas cuz of Knuckles,(not that he's my favorite character) and I showed his sillouette to them. Clearly they didn't knew anything about Sonic cuz they kept asking "Is that Sonic the Hedgehog?". So yeah, I can see why ppl would mistake Shadow for Sonic. One of them asked if he was Shadow, just to tell.
That's so true
1:22:13
GUN is actually the result of the president giving the military complete and total freedom in how they respond to national crisis' like Eggman. Rouge works as a spy/agent for GUN while moonlighting as a treasure hunter. Most of this stuff is answered in Sonic X, but I can understand some people making the argument that the games and animations should have separate canons.
I do not think GUN shut down Project Shadow.
I feel like Gerald did something that triggered them to view him a traitor or going against their wishes, and so they decided to shut down the ARK in the manner that they did. Afterwards they forced Gerald to complete Project Shadow in the way they wanted him to - though of course after learning they killed Maria, he had other plans of his own.
You've reignited my passion for these games !
Fantastic and interesting video that opened my eyes to parts of a story I already loved and never once picked up on.
That said, I think you may be a little too harsh on post-SA2 Shadow's character, at the very least for the two games I'm familiar with that prominently feature him.
His story in Heroes, limited as it is, is a victim of the way the series' timeline expanded. He acts noticeably unlike himself because, to be blunt, it most likely isn't meant to be him. Between the initial intent to kill the character off permanently and the ending of the Team Dark Story, the Shadow we see in Heroes... Isn't the Shadow that we see in Sonic Adventure 2. It's a robot that Eggman designed to resemble him. It genuinely always made me kinda sad that they didn't stick with this revelation in future games, because it seemed like such an interesting direction to take the character concept - an even greater level of artificiality to contend with.
While Shadow's own game's story definitely isn't perfect, I see what they were going for in it too and think they at least managed the ending well. This is a shadow uncertain of his place in the world, both due to literal amnesia, and all that he thought he had lived for turning out to have been a lie. What is real? Why does he exist?
Fed some lies, some truths, some half-truths, pursuing it how the player sees fit, he ends up finding out a much more sinister answer to that than he had ever previously known, in the canonical ending, Shadow finally lets go of the past ties which bind him, honoring the ones that were positive influences on him - Maria, and Gerald Robotnik before he went mad with hatred (speaking of which, that scene where Gerald was this warm, reassuring, pro-humanity figure in the Last Story always felt... Haunting, to me. It made even more starkly horrific the kind of hateful man he was in SA2 to see that he was once a truly benevolent figure who made the Robotnik-family mistake of delving into dealings with things he could not properly understand or control) - while still finally allowing himself to live a life defined entirely by looking forward and fulfilling his own desires. He's still a hero, perhaps more firmly than ever, but it's not just out of the wish of a dying young girl, but because he himself has come to appreciate the world and want to make something for himself in it.
Also segued nicely into the kinda character he was into 06, though I'll avoid speaking with authority on that one since it's something I'm not personally familiar with the intimate details for the story of. Besides that, I noticed how the Shadow of Sonic Battle, of all games, acted surprisingly like a Shadow who absolutely had had his development from his own game, despite Battle coming out a year beforehand.
Curious about your opinions of Battle, honestly. It's considered one of the last Sonic games to really have a great story by many familiar with it, enough so to redeem its extremely middling isometric fighter gameplay.
I dont usually watch hours long videos but this one was truly amazing. I never knew how deep and detailed the Sa2 story was. thank you for this video.
I... highly doubt Eggman defeated Tails. It just makes more sense from a story perspective that he lost. Showing how much Tails has grown and also why he and Amy aren't.. y'know... dead!
I feel like maybe Eggman slipped away and took the emerald sooner than we were shown.
I LOVED EVERY PART of Sonic Adventure 2 EXCEPT the treasure hunting level's that had ghosts they scared me every time they tried I even Cried Said "ENOUGH I CAN DO THIS THEY DON'T SCARE ME" and the weird thing is King Boom Boo didn't even scare me when I saw him I just fought him like anyone else would
I never heard some of the dialogue shadow had said in the last fight especially since I always had it on english mode and mostly tone them out tbh so getting the little difference of the dialogue was really nice. I just love watching videos like these to really understand the games I've always played but never understood on a deeper level, especially the characters. Always pull at my heart string since I love these characters so much ❤
EDIT: 2:04:28-2:04:37 That's so crazy to hear cuz I have never heard sonic let alone shadow scream like that 😯
Eggman pissing on the moon obviously
No it’s white phosphorus you idiot
Here is a like.
This video took me several days to finish watching.
This si something I realise not many other Franchise have, including Super Marios: the most pasionete and diverse fans of all.
I do not think I would ever see or know of a fan making a 2 hours long video dissecting and explaining why a Mario, a Halo or a Crash game is as good as he knows it its.
Well, this video earned you a new Subscriber. Amazing job. And not just the entire analysis of this amazing game, but the interpretation of "Live and Learn"...that shit hit SO close to home. I've always had this interpretation myself, but hearing someone else validate that through their own opinion....OMG.
Thankkkk yooouuuuuuuu finally found 🙌 a page that is graettttt ... i wish I could just send this page to all my friends
I've been bouncing around this idea of my ideal Sonic Adventure 3 in my head, and watching this video helped me solidify it. I know it's literally me just writing my own fanfic at this point, but I figured I might as well share it here and a few other places in case anyone is interested. Some of you might have ideas of your own that differ from it, or include features I never thought about.
So, my Sonic Adventure 3. Instead of adding a bunch of brand new characters, there are enough underrated/forgotten characters over the course of the franchise they could reintroduce in this story without having to add more disposable characters that never return, as well as fleshing out the story arcs of returning characters. I'll be taking continuity from some of the other games into consideration, but try fleshing them out in this game or giving them enough context to work within SA3's story and hopefully improve upon what came before (e.g. Infinite's inclusion, Shadow's reason for working with G.U.N.) Each storyline would be split into teams of 3 characters (Speed, Fly and Power respectively), with Sonic getting the main focus and most stages (he's the star, after all). While I call them teams, they function more like they do in SA2, with their own unique stages to take advantage of their abilities. Anyway, here's the list of teams I came up with.
Team Sonic (Sonic, Tails & Knuckles)
The main protagonists, and bread & butter of the game. Sonic The Hedgehog is back, and after his many years of heroics, we get to both see and experience his incredible feats, better than ever before, as he looks to restore peace across both South Island and the human areas being terrorised by Dr Eggman's new plot, as well as the chaos and carnage being caused by Fang The Sniper and his greed-driven actions. Tails will be assisting him and helping make Sonic's mission much easier, while Knuckles struggles to protect the Master Emerald from a powerful new foe, Fang's accomplice Bark. After their initial fight, Knuckles hears Tikal's voice, permitting him to shrink the Master Emerald to a portable size and carry it with him, so he can both live his life more freely to help the friends he's made, and to prevent more pillages from happening in Angel Island (as well as contextualise why Knuckles is suddenly hanging out with Sonic). Knuckles co-operates with Sonic and Tails of course, being in their immediate friend group, but is more so doing it out of necessity. This story arc will feature Knuckles learning to adapt his old principles into his new way of life, Tails proving himself as a capable individual while also having to learn not to take too much responsibility alone, and Sonic inspiring bravado and fierce determination in those around him.
Team Hooligan (Fang, Bean & Bark)
A new faction of antagonists, lead by the greedy and cutthroat Fang The Sniper. Fang offers his services to Dr Eggman to steal 4 of the 7 Chaos Emeralds from G.U.N for his new plan, in exchange for a fat paycheck. Fang's first few stages take place before Sonic's story begins, much like Dark Story in SA2, where we get his unique take on Speed-gameplay that incorporates shooting elements from past games, as well as on-rails shooting sections when grinding, and moments where Fang can use his Marvelous Queen airbike. After his initial stage of destroying G.U.N bots, it's followed up by a boss fight with Shadow The Hedgehog, and it's here we see just how skilled Fang truly is. Despite Shadow's best efforts, Fang gains the upper hand, and when Rouge and Omega step in to assist/save him, Dynamite Bean (as I'm renaming him) and Bark rendesvous just in time to ensure the success of heist, with Bean destroying the roads using his explosives, and Bark almost demolishing the pursuing Omega with his bare hands. Right off the bat, this introduces Fang as a fun villain with the skills to back it up, conveys how dangerous the three are as a group (not by their end-goals, but the damage caused by their actions), and an entertaining dynamic between the three characters during their exploits and misadventures (with Fang's misfortune around his own contraptions returning from Sonic Triple Trouble). After returning to Eggman of course, they place the Emeralds into his machine, which he uses to power his dangerous new robots up. While Eggman is too busy marveling at the end result however, he doesn't notice Fang and the others making off with the machine and the Chaos Emeralds inside of them. Once they make their escape and destroy the pursuing robots, Eggman becomes enraged and sends his robots out try and recapture the Emeralds, while also attempting to assert his threatening aspect over the surrounding territories and crush the military preventing him from doing so.
One stage they should definitely include is a Casino level for Fang to use the Emeralds he's collected to exploit every machine and let the place rain with rings, with G.U.N robots and Badniks alike trying to kill him and each other amidst the mayhem. It'd really sell Fang as this fun character to raise hell with while the two other forces are going at each other, and he's just reveling in it all while slipping out of everyone's grasp like the sly weasel he "half" is.
Team Dark (Shadow, Rouge & Omega)
Despite the weird journey his character has gone through in every game since SA2, Shadow The Hedgehog's story will focus mainly on individualism, and illustrate Shadow's growth in character from SA2, and how he both respects Maria's wishes without being limited by them. While Sonic's second half mainly focuses on his feud with Fang's, Shadow's intial encounter with Fang serves as a way of leading him towards his main conflict with Eggman, whose plans in this game involve refining his robotic Sonic clones (Sonic Robo, Grey-Sonic, and Mecha Sonic). These particular robots will be fought by other Teams, but Shadow's story will eventually lead him to encounter Metal Shadow, who will challenge Shadow's sense of self, similar to what was accomplished in SA2's story beats with the Shadow prototype and potential false memories, Sonic Heroes' Shadow Clones, and Mephiles' insistence on copying Shadow's form. It's mainly a story for Shadow to show how far he's come, and to stick it to Eggman about how no matter how he or anyone tries to replace his identity, it won't change who he is or what he stands for. Essentially taking some good ideas I saw potential in from Sonic 06, and hopefully incorporating them into a better story and game. Rouge will get the opportunity to cross paths with Knuckles and even fight alongside him, while deepening their relationship and character arc.
Team Fate (Blaze, Silver & Infinite)
Blaze The Cat's backstory will remain unchanged from Sonic Rush, but since Sonic 06 is not canon, Silver could either have befriended Blaze due to their complimentary personalities lot long before their story begins, or he could be her long-time friend from her dimension. Their story will focus on Blaze' duty to maintain dimensional order, and destroy threats to that order (e.g. the Phantom Ruby, and Eggman Nega). Since Sonic's dimension is the most likely to feature these threats, she remains in his dimension, poised and ready to nip the danger in the bud. They'll encounter an unconscious Infinite without his mask on, not recognising him at first but trying to help him regain his strength. When this story starts, we'll see a flashback scene of Infinite, wandering a wasteland aimlessly after his shameful defeat and retreat from Sonic in the last game. His Jackal buddies who he abandoned surround him, and they want revenge. With neither the strength to fight back, nor the clean conscience to stand up them, Infinite lets the Jackals beat him down and leave him to die. After being nursed back to full health by Blaze and Silver with their first stages over, Infinite tries to keep his identity concealed by refering to himself as Zero (like his original concept name), and admits to having commited awful crimes in the past. Silver reassures him that as long as he's still alive, he still has time to redeem himself and start over. As the conflict rising between G.U.N, Eggman and the Hooligans becomes more prominant, Blaze outlines their objective, and after thinking about Silver's words, Infinite takes up his sword from his mercenary days and offers his support in battle.
This story focuses on re-contextualising Silver's character to better fit a canon story (and give him fun gameplay to boot), as well as introducing a story of conflicting ideals as Infinite must decide what path he should walk. Infinite's name could play to the idea that infinite possibilities are available to him, including redemption, stagnation and conquest. The Phantom Ruby could be used to better effect in this plotline, and bolster Blaze' inclusion as a lead character. Another villain that both Blaze and Silver are all too familiar will appear, and could disclose information to them both that could ruin Infinite's chances of redemption.
Team Chaotix (nuff said)
Another day goes by at the Chaotix detective agency, only this time they've landed themselves a job from Cream The Rabbit; investigate the missing Chao, and critters in the surrounding areas. Since there have been no recent reports of Eggman using any critters to fuel his machines in his most recent antics, which are far enough away from South Island to make the disappearances all the more confusing, Vector The Crocodile accepts the job, and Chaotix are back in business. Espio lives up to his namesake and investigates the two military powers currently in conflict with one another (G.U.N and Eggman's forces) in order to gather information to help with case, while Charmy and Vector search the areas where the critters used to roam. This story acts as more of a fun, up-beat and supplimentary story to help flesh out the rest of the game and showcase the mysterious happenings not seen in the other stories. Along the way, they'll fight one of the Sonic robots in search of the Chaos Emerald, and their case will lead them to a visitor from another world (among other shady characters, and their paths might cross with Team Fate's.
Team Outcast (Amy, Ray and Mighty)
Amy Rose was stood up yet again by Sonic, left in the dust while he and the others are out on yet another adventure. Overhearing her, Mighty and Ray both share their frustrations with him. Mighty's constant annoying boasting of his glory days with Sonic on just one adventure leading him to be fired by the Chaotix agency and ignored by most everyone, and Ray being completely forgotten in every heroic endeavour of his after working with Sonic and Ray, lead all three to band together and form their own vigilante team in an attempt to do what Sonic can't. Each of them are vying for Sonic's attention (albeit for different reasons), and while it's more of a light-hearted storyline with meta comedy (and not the Sonic Twitter or "haha look at 06" kind), their misadventures will lead them to all kinds of dangers, whether they're ready for it or not.
Last Story: Metal's Revenge
There are several points throughout the story where Metal Sonic fails in his duties to assist Eggman, and in none of those instances do you ever get to actually fight him during gameplay. This is intentional. Eggman has bossfights, other characters have bossfights, gun mechs have bossfights, the new Metal Shadow has a bossfight, even the revamped Sonic robots from past games have bossfights, but not Metal Sonic. He's pushed to the side, yet again, to make way for other characters more important than him. Sonic's final boss is Fang, making him all the more obsolete and unable to fulfil his intended purpose. The last time he did have a final bossfight, he wasn't even on equal footing. You only ever got to fight Metal Madness and Overlord, which barely even resembled Sonic. And now, he's replaced with a bunch of other copies of his nemesis, as if Eggman no longer considers him worth repairing. The story reflects his status throughout Sonic games, as a throwaway boss in the rogue's gallery, only worthy when he casts away what makes him unique. This is something you'll see over the course of the story, and before the last story is unlocked, you'll think to yourself "Wow, what a sorry waste of a character"
Well now he's furious. His red eyes glow with vengeance and killer intent, the likes of which haven't been seen since his 90's depictions. And worst of all, with everything going on throughout the story, the emeralds changing hands countless times, HE has the 7 Chaos Emeralds now. Starting with the destruction of his replacements, he puts his revenge plot into motion, obtaining enough power to become Hyper Metal Sonic, and if he obtains the Master Emerald, Time Stones, and Phantom Ruby, threatening to doom the world, its future, and every paralel dimension imaginable. A distopia where all life is artificial, Metal replicants roam the world and destroy all traces of organic life, ruled by the super-computer god-like monster Hyper Metal Sonic has become, turning the beloved iconography of Sonic into a symbol of despair.
While it won't happen immediately, it'll take the combined efforts of all the characters to take on this dangerous foe, over the course of a few stages, and boss fight after boss fight. At least one character from each group will get their own super form, totalling at ether 7 or 8 depending on whether or not it'd be appropriate to remove one. I'm trying to think of some better names for the newer characters than just Super followed by Name. Super Sonic leading charge obviously, but of the potential other super characters, he could be joined by Super Tails (with flickies), Super Knuckles, Super Shadow, Burning Blaze, Super Silver (maybe), Phantom Infinite (mayyyybe), Xtreme Amy, Eagle-Eye Fang (or Blaster Fang) and one that would be incredibly fitting. Charmy Killa-Bee (or something like that), in a comical scene where Vector is seemingly encouraging Espio to join them, to which Espio nods knowingly with a smile, only to then subvert the audience's expectation and suddenly fling Charmy up into the air to join the others in their transformation.
The very last boss fight sees the other characters having to bow out of the fight before their ring consumption kills them, with each one lending Sonic the maguffins needed to match wits with Hyper Metal Sonic. And then it happens. Hyper Metal Sonic makes his first playable 3D debut. With years of highs and lows, ups and downs behind him, Sonic puts all of his accumulated experiences, training, ability, and determination to use and goes all out in this climactic final battle. Though the stakes were high throughout this last story, he succeeds. Sonic defeat Hyper Sonic, saves the future, and gives his first equal adversary (and now most powerful adversary) the proper send-off he longed for. He was created to be better than Sonic in every way, and yet he pushed Sonic to become even better than that. Yet as the light fades from his eyes, and as his metallic form is ready to explode and then crumble away into nothingness, he is content.
And that's a wrap. While I vaguely elude to plenty of plot points some of you may or may not pick up on, and I haven't got the finer details of some aspects of the story figured out, that's my basic pitch, story-wise at least. It sounds like a lot, and that's because it could be. If the team working on it are ambitious enough, this could reflect that. All these different variations on Speed, Flight and Power gameplay with levels designed specifically to accomidate each individual character's abilities. A story mode giving each team a decent amount of content and story to work with (the latter of which is interconnected and follows a readable timeline), and a finale that ups the ante and invokes fear, dread, excitement, and fulfilment in the player. If only.
Also Emblems.
Also Chao Garden is back and it's the best it's ever been and it includes online features and this game is god-tier.
I think I know what they were going for with Shadow and Sonic. Not Sonadow, obviously. I think that Sonic was the original Ultimate Life Form that was created by Gerald Robotnik, but when Maria died, he cloned his creation and made it evil. While cutting and pasting his memory into Shadow, he edited it so Shadow would seek revenge. Even if this never became canon after Heroes, it’s still an interesting theory.
1:53:16 no, she will continue to exist in his heart. he will only have fulfilled his promise to her
Best video on Sonic ever made.
Thank you for making this video & telling it from the perspective using the text & dialogue lifted straight from the Japanese version. I learned some deeper things about this game that I never knew about previously. The way you explored things in depth, from the Japanese dialogue to the meaning of the lyrics in the songs, it was very informative. Things I missed or overlooked completely you covered. It's one of my favorite 3D Sonic games. I remember having it first on Dreamcast & then on Gamecube. This video made me look at the game more in depth & to find all these story elements & easter eggs you highlighted. Thank you for your overall in-depth analysis on this game
I wonder if Big was still on the island when it exploded...
Wow, I didn't realize how deep stories were capable of being in a Sonic game.
This was two hours well spent. Good job. Subscribed.
Incredibly thorough analysis. You are awesome!
I just wish they gave amy more to do in this game. She is there to rescue sonic, then from the pyramid until the ark where she is just used as bait by eggman. I really like her scene with shadow at the end but I wish she had more time to shine.
I heard from a certain youtuber that knuckles songs are actually secretly about an inner fight with his mind and how he's created all the characters of the game in his head to cope with his drug abuse problems...
To add to that apparently the word "eckadona" represents knuckles starting to be confused with who he is... but that was a theory so who knows
my theory is that... the original shadow was sonic's grandfather! And modern shadow is therefore only a copy
I make the official decree this video is required watching for not only all internet critics looking to review this game but also all future Sonic writers.
Knuckles x rouge > shadow x rouge knuckles just has way more cemetery with her
We need SA1 and SA2 remakes and then retcon heroes onwards.
Echidona is Echidna in japanese.
So...
Iron Gate
Shadow VS. Hot Shot
Wild Canyon/Dry Lagoon
City Escape
Sand Ocean
Sonic VS. Big Foot/Radical Highway
Egg Quarters
Lost Colony
Weapons Bed
Tails VS. Eggman
Prison Lane
Metal Harbor
Security Hall
Rouge VS. Flying Dog
White Jungle
Sonic VS. Shadow
Green Forest
Pumpkin Hill
Mission Street
Aquatic Mine
Route 280
Route 101
Sky Rail
Hidden Base
Pyramid Cave
Death Chamber
Knuckles VS. King Boom Boo
Sonic VS. Egg Golem
Eggman VS. Egg Golem
Meteor Herd/Mad Space
Knuckles VS. Rouge/Eternal Engine
Cosmic Wall
Crazy Gadget
Tails VS. Eggman
Final Rush/Final Chase
Sonic VS. Shadow
Cannon's Core
Shadow VS. Biolizard
Final Hazard
And the fights...
Shadow wins in Prison Island. When Shadow is about to kill Sonic, Eggman tells him the island is about to blow up.
Tails wins in Prison Island and Eggman retreats
Knuckles wins since Rouge couldn't fly while tired and hurt.
Eggman wins in the Ark as shown in the video
Sonic wins in the Ark as shown in the video
time order ,loaded dark mission 1, hero mission 1, dark 2, hero 2, repeat this dark then hero set up for the full story to the end.
For the whole Sonic and Shadow are more connected theory I personally like to believe that Sonic was created by Dr. Eggman as a clone of Shadow.
While I do think that this is arguably one of the best videos ever made about just why SA2 was a lot more than what some people say it is and that it deserved a lot of credit for the care and attention to detail put in the story despite a few hiccups, the only thing that turned me off at parts was the passive aggressiveness and subtle elitism (the whole sub vs dub thing). Look, I get that you think this game is amazing and I don't fault you for it because I do agree, I agreed with most of the things you said in the video but getting all snippy at people who may have not thought critically at certain parts like when people were confusing Shadow as Sonic not remembering the key details like Sonic's super form resembling Shadow's quills in SA1 or the eyewitness news part or your section on Security Hall that pretty much summed up to "GIT GEWD," or even the voice acting comparisons where you say that the dub acting is terrible and the sub is superior in every way. It's just... Unpleasant. I mean let me ask you this, when you first played the game did you put two and two about the filled in context in some of the story? Did you think that Security Hall was a cake walk? And hey, maybe you did since you said you played Sonic games prior in a previous video if I'm not mistaken but I'm genuinely curious. Again, I'm talking about the first ever experience, not repeat playthroughs where you naturally started slowly filling in the gaps.
Again, I'm not saying you're wrong for pointing these contexts in, it's much appreciated but it's the tone that I just found a tad nauseating. And I get it. I get that you were pretty much directing that towards some of the more popular reviews of the game that did treat SA2 like it was just a pretty run of the mill game and that it was overrated, especially one in particular reviewer (who is not Projared) but honestly I would've preferred you just spilled the beans and name-dropped who you were specifically aiming the arguments at as far as video reviews go like you did with Projared.
As for the voice acting. Subjective taste and whatnot. I mean you say that the English VAing is terrible but to me I think the voices despite the horrible audio mixing and a few shotty lines like Robotnik in the last story yelling "Let's get to WOOORRRKKK!!" Or the space shuttle scuffle between Sonic & Knuckles (mostly due to the bad audio editing), I personally thought the voices were more than fine. I personally got chills hearing Jennifer Douilard's Amy crying out to Sonic when he gets ejected into Space or the whole scene where Shadow confronts Rouge and Lani Minella makes her sound confident and coy while David Humphrey's Shadow sounds a tad reserved but threatening (then unsure when Rouge asks him if he thinks he's really the true Ultimate Lifeform). And sure you can say that the acting may seem over the top but so did the Japanese voice acting. It's an anime essentially and that is the nature of the medium for both sub and dub, it's not supposed to sound realistic. Personal subjective opinion of course but just like how you find it disappointing that some people really undermine just how deep the story is/was in this game, I feel the same way when people bash the dub where for early English dub VAing in video games, I felt it was pretty good, especially seeing just how lackluster the dubbing did become when the dub actors changed (with the exception of the Bringas brothers voicing Tails, the replacement(s) were a lot better).
Again, I'm not trying to hate or anything. Besides those few gripes, I still find this to be one of the best videos on SA2 (with Jebtube's) and I do appreciate all the attention to detail you put into your analysis. I just think the occasional passive-aggressiveness was a bit "eh..." is all.
The English voices aren't too bad, but I criticize them because over half the time they don't sound like real people with genuine cadence or inflections like the original voice track for the most part. They sound like actors acting with aimless direction or without proper context. That's not even getting into the baggage of botched lip sync/timing, acting not matching the character body language, and translation errors.
Pointing out these issues is in no way elitism.
@@RubyofBlue I understand that. I wouldn't say that the voice acting was pitch perfect and the translation error did take a way a bit from the main narrative, mainly in the final act with Gerald's diary reading. The main thing I personally liked was that at the very least, the tone of the voices fit the characters (in my opinion, even Connor Bringas, the tone was there but the acting was bad and he was the worst actor there). The acting could've been better in some parts but there certainly were parts where the acting was actually pretty on the ball like I mentioned with Shadow confronting Rouge or Sonic being ejected into space and Amy in distraught. Again, I notice you're alluding to realism ("Sound like real people") and I guess this is where subjective opinion comes in because as I said in my other comment, I essentially just don't give too much credence if a character sounds like an actual person, especially in a shonen type media where OTT is pretty much present regardless if it's sub or dub.
I suppose the reason why I can excuse the voice acting not being perfect is because many of the early 3D 5th Generation games that had English dubbing didn't sound great (Resident Evil 1, Castlevania Symphony of the Night, Silent Hill - Though personally, I actually like the voices in this game lol - and so on)
I just feel that for the time of 2001 when dubbing was on a slow path to improving, SA2's voicing was not a complete train-wreck, just growing pains that it had to go through to set the stage for improvement which I feel made a difference because Sonic Heroes' dubbing was a lot better minus Tails. Yeah it sounds campy but it's a cartoony game so it works but I digress.
@@RubyofBlue Edit: Forgot to add the "elitism". You're right. Pointing out specifically why you think the dubbing fails is not elitism but subtly trying to act like those who choose not to play the game subbed is and you didn't do this in the video but I noticed some of it in the comments.
And I mean, at the end of the day if someone still manages to feel emotion when playing through the dub, doesn't that at least count for something? I did see the game's story via cutscenes subbed just to see how much the translation was butchered and sure it did botch some things, mainly in the last story in my opinion, I think the story was still serviceable enough to be enjoyed dubbed. I've replayed this game at least 30 or 40 times now and I still manage to have a good time with the dub and many others have as well and I just think that if a dub like that can still be enjoyable, I think that says a lot about the vibe of the game whether subbed or dubbed.
The best shonen series are ones which also have passionate and believable performances, so I don't think that's a good argument for SA2's dub sounding wonky. At the end of the day, whether the acting is bad, or serviceable, it hurts the presentation of the story for English-speaking players more than it should.
Especially in something like Sonic where the story rides or dies on its likeable characters, in which the quality of the performances is one of the most important things. Nostalgia aside, you can only get so far with your story presentation when half the time the characters sound like they're high on a combination of Xanax and Adderall.
@@RubyofBlue I mean in your opinion it does . As I said before, there are plenty of us dub players who still enjoyed the story despite the broken translation. The gist of the story was still more or less the same touching on the same themes that were present in the sub about Shadow being a misunderstood character who served to be a beacon of hope for Earth as well as the insanity an old man had to go through when everything was taken away from him.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on the pure basis of subjectivity because I personally still stand by thinking that the acting with the exception of one character (Tails) was fine enough for it's time.
Holy shit, the reveal of the Lizard's roar FLOORED me, I had no idea things went this deep down the rabbit hole.
Saying "Sonic shouldn't have a serious story" is like saying "Fallout shouldn't care about lore" :\
Franchises need to be treated with respect. It pains me to see franchises i love go down a path that robs them of their identity. :(
People who say that *clearly* never played any of the Kirby games. If you take a look at the crazy deep amounts of lore that series has, you'd be shocked.
If a cutsy pink blob thing can have depth and serious story telling, why the hell can't a walking talking blue hedgehog have the same?
@@chaoschannel3428
Its because they try to compare Sonic to Mario, and fail to realise that Sonic was supposed to rival Mario not BE like Mario.
Marios main games aren't trying to be story or lore heavy. But they think Sonic should follow the same principle because of his happy go lucky genesis days.
the joke is, the mariogames with good stories are some of the more popular ones, a good story would force them to fix the gameplay of the 2d games that are stagnant and yet people also say story is worthless in mario. both that series and sonic are a sad example of fans being dumb af. just that mario gets slightly less hate than sonic(yeah, mario gets hate. people do not notice because it is never called the worst thing ever unlike what happens to sonic)
RevolvingWorld its funny cause the first 3 sonic games hav pretty serious stories imo
@@y2kjetters317 Sonic1 and 3,yeah. Sonic2...I don't really know. The game barely had a real story unless one counts the offscreen stuff like the circumstances of tails meeting sonic, eggman burning down woodzone and the 7th chaos emerald being sealed by the gods because a tribe that had all of them ended itself in one night due to abusing their power.
The 2D Sonic fans got all their fanservice. It's time for an Adventure and Adventure 2 remake.
True they got mania.Now adventurists deserve a new adventure game.
Sonic adventure 3 good story no cringe comedy and great gameplay
Damn Right
Sonic Mania was only half original.
Sonic Generations had mediocre physics and very platform-heavy gameplay.
Sonic Forces was Generations but worse.
@2071Johnny Sega just has stop being afraid of criticism and learn from it. Live and learn
This is now officially my favorite video on UA-cam. A true masterpiece.
GOAT vid.
Idk, I think it's between this and "Waffle falling over"
Didn't expect team APS here
Yes
Team APS?! The people I’d expect least to be in this comment section.
Pssh, and they say there's no such thing as a correct opinion.
With today's internet, there can only be the right opinion, or backlash.
but there is something like a wrong opinion like 1 + 1 = apple
Where are you are you there?
You’re on the internet, opinions don’t exist
@@M3rtyville No, that's right. 2 + 2 = fish as well.
“Pumpkin Hill could’ve been home to a cult.”
Yeah, a cult that doots the theme endlessly.
Lmao
Snapcube
@@Romanode_ Did somebody said Shadow?
It's either that or getting tilted at the towers
do-do, do do do doo-doo doo do do-do
Man, this was an eye-opening experience for me. I've always enjoyed SA2's story, but over the years holes in it popped up the more I revisited it. But the direct translation plus your own inferences really helped clear things up for me. I actually never knew anything about the possibility that Shadow wasn't the original or it's implications, I always thought that was just a line to foreshadow the Biolizard. Hell I didn't even know Gerald repressed his memories, or that his journal actually showed him slip into insanity instead of just immediately becoming a genocidal maniac. As much as I love the english dub, I'm shocked at how much information was lost in the localization. Thank you for this, it's really given me an even greater appreciation for Sonic Adventure 2. Especially as the current direction of the series' narrative and characterization grates on me more and more.
Oh yeah, to build upon the theory that Shadow is based on the Super Sonic mural on Angel Island, I think it's likely that the Biolizard was based on the Perfect Chaos mural. It helps address the common complaint that Gerald went from a giant lizard to a hedgehog as the base for the Ultimate Life Form.
There's also Maya glyphs on both the Eclipse Cannon control center/core, as well as around the cannons core area in the Rouge, Knuckles, and Sonic segments.
I like the idea that Gerald found those two murals and was like "Okay, there's two animal-like figures here, and I want to create the ultimate life form. This hedgehog-looking thing seems to be fighting against the machine that looks like me, so I guess I'll start with the giant lizard-thing instead. If that doesn't work, _then_ I'll try basing it on hedgehog."
@Hideyoshi Kinoshita "You ugly prototype"
Shadow actually says this.
@@MxPokirby hate to be that guy but gerald never wanted biolizard to be giant and animalistic. He had always intended a, lets say, compact creature with a human level intelligence. Biolizard was a failure; he was actually a small creature at the start and showed promise but he just kept growing and didnt develop any intelligence. Its all written in the article rouge shows for like three second in the confrontation scene so i dont blame anyone for missing it but thats what i love about sa2 - it invites you to solve some mysteries by yourself instead of hitting you over the head with infodump.
Who else loves Eggman themes?
I think when Rouge says she got something better, she means friends. They've overcome incredibly disastrous odds together and experiences like that form lasting bonds. Plus she seems shallow and obsessed with material riches throughout the game. I don't really think she's someone who had friends before SA2.
Man, that was:
Good,
Nice,
Great,
Jammin',
Cool,
Radical,
Tight,
Awesome,
Extreme (and most important)
Perfect!
ULTIMATE
that was to good
Good!
Great!!
AWESOME!!!
OUTSTANDING!!!!
AMAZING!!!!!
aaaahhhhhh you slick bastard lol
Nice nice indeed
After all these years, decades even, I finally found someone who loves Sonic Adventure 2 more than I do.
Is that a challenge?
@@WardenKaz @Baba hey noobs, Quandale Dingle back again. My finger doctor baba mc bibi son has committed identity theft on me and thrown me in jail. I will be breaking out and committing tax fraud under her name. My sister Saundale Dingle is going to break the world record for the most cheese balls chugged in under half a second. Come back next week to see me eat a pound of raw cookie dough while sitting on a tight rope.
@@WardenKaz No.
@Koko210
I’m still looking…
@@lennygirlthetruesavvysavag2410what?
SA2 might be goofy at storytelling, especially in the localized version, but I'll take it any day over the shitty self-deprecating humor of the modern titles where you can't have five minutes of tension without Sonic looking to the camera and saying something like "Who writes this stuff?"
Writers that know nothing of the franchise.
Amen to that. This is why I'm glad SEGA has got rid of Pontac and Graff. These writers were honestly terrible and don't know anything about Sonic. Now, we need a competent writer who knows the story-telling very well (I hope it's Shiro Maekawa!).
I like to compare SA2 with Devil May Cry 3, because of how similar they are in how they have this hocky yet utterly earnest and sincere approach to storytelling. Heck even the rivalry with Sonic and Shadow plays out somewhat similarly to that of Dante and Vergil.
@@JapanFreak2595 Amusing, since SA2 came out several years before DMC3, yet no one really takes Shadow seriously as a rival character anymore.
@Dread StarZ The story isn't even that bad, the worst stories I've seen are from Free Riders, Colors, Lost World, Boom: Rise of Lyric, Forces, and even Team Sonic Racing.
"I'll watch one more video before I go to bed"
This was the video, and I had not realized a whole-ass 2 hours had passed.
Something I hear discussed alot is, how did Gerald go from a prototype of a Lizard type creature to a Hedgehog? I believe the answer is that the Biolizard, the prototype of the ultimate lifeform was based off of Perfect Chaos. You shortly mentioned how Gerald went to Angel Island and the Mystic Ruins at 1:49:20. Perhaps the 1st place he went to was the Mystic Ruins and he found the mural on the wall showing Perfect Chaos.
Chaos was shown to absorb the chaos emeralds' power and was a literal immortal God of Destruction. We 100% know this is knowledge Gerald could have found, due to SA1 where Eggman knows this exact info from artifacts he found. If that isn't enough, we find the Biolizard in game is by the shrine of the Emeralds, the exact same place Chaos guarded. Not to mention Chaos looked alot like a lizard/reptile creature in his final form! Chaos would also grow and change size when fed emeralds, the same way the biolizard kept growing. Plus Strangely enough would become upset and lose control when using the power of the emeralds like Perfect Chaos did. There is just way to many coincidences for this to be by chance.
To go either further Perfect Chaos was defeated by a hedgehog using the power of the emeralds! It just goes to show if someone found this out, they would immediately go from designing a copy of Chaos to a copy of Sonic. Now I don't think there was any way of Gerald to know that a Hedgehog beat Chaos, however perhaps when the Biolizard, the copy of Chaos was failing him; He found the mural of Super sonic on the wall of Angel Island and actually successfully created the ultimate lifeform based of it.
Nice theory.
@@ktn342 thanks. :p
You are a fucking genius and im angry i have never picked up on Gerald creating a hedgehog as a possible measure against the Biolizard, despite loving SA universe, goddamn.
I was just happy to go "ULF just means immortal intelligent lifeform, its doesnt matter what form the prototype was taking and why Shadow is a hedgehog, it could be completely random move on Gerald part who probably had a lot of other prototypes at least in his blueprints and hedgehog just was a thing that worked".
The canonical reason for it was actually explained in a strategy guide and it’s actually a deeper story plot that I wish was talked about more in the actual game:
info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_Adventure_2_-_The_Truth_of_50_Years_Ago...
that's awesome and all, but Chaos' original form resembled the Hedgehog physique as well. He could have also discovered Chaos' original form.
Huh. sounded better in my head. None of these theories sound right tbh
...Something that only just caught my attention. "Sigma-Alpha 2 Heading due south over the city." at the start of the Hero Story. Literally saying that SA2 is starting there. Can't believe it took me so long to see it.
“We’re en route and everything’s good so far.”
“This is control tower, receiving your transmission. Care to clarify your status of captured hedgehog?”
“That’s a 10-4!” (Police/Military code for “Understood,” “Good,” “Acknowledged,” and oh so popular: “Affirmative!” Which essentially means “we’re good!” Which is hella ironic considering the next part of that scene XD)
and now i too want to kill myself.....
@@victorhale And then Sonic breaks free, but surprisingly SA2 is still good to go.
Rouge has echolocation. That’s how she can find the gems!
shit that actually makes sense
Sometimes we just forget that the Sonic cast are unique creatures with special and natural abilities
I always wondered how she can find the master emerald shards.
@Dennis Raid Some one doesn't remember how echolocation works.
@Dennis Raid Idk maybe the same as other rock emitted sounds. Since the Chaos Emeralds and Master Emerald have incredible chaos power, maybe they emit unique waves like no other gems or rocks.
"Animal Mascot platformers shouldn't have complex stories to them"
Klonoa: Do I LOOK like a joke to you?
Now say it with me guys
*MAKING FUN OF A GAMES STORY BECAUSE IT ATTEMPTS TO BE SERIOUS IS A SHITTY REASON AS TO WHY YOU THINK A GAMES STORY SUCKS*
@June thanks for understanding, not a lot of non fans do. (I am assuming you are a non fan, if I am wrong then sorry.)
It's like saying Kirby shouldn't be dark
@June stillcant believe klonoas grandad got friggin bombed and even klonoa had fake memories implanted in him and wasnt even real.
_"Animal Mascot platformers shouldn't have complex stories to them."_
Kirby and Klonoa: Are we a joke to you?
I am SEEN. I am VALIDATED. THANK YOU for saying what needs to be said, I COMMEND you, good sir!!!
I've been periodically replaying this game since 2002 and you brought so many new things to my attention that I had never even noticed! Everything about this analysis is just so in-depth and well done, and I'm just feeling so jazzed about this game all over again!!
I'm done making self-deprecating jokes about liking SA2, aight, we done with that scene. It's good, it's great, fuck ya chicken strips.
* slow clap erupts into a full crowded room standing up and applauding *
identity theft
I never thought to analyze the lyrics in the songs in this game. It's brilliant. Love seeing how it all ties together and connects. Awesome video. It just increases my love for SA2
This video is an absolute masterpiece man. I love your passion for SA2 and most of all I love the way you fully explain the entire story to such an extreme level of detail.
It’s safe to say that I’ll be using this video a lot to help debate and debunk a lot of the misconceptions surrounding this story.
Whenever people call SA2 a bad game, I think of this channel and it reminds me that some people are just blissfully ignorant of what a masterpiece it really is. The same people saying it's "outdated" or "aged poorly" are the same people that praise OOT or Majora's Mask when they suffer the same or even worse problems in some cases.
Yeah, people generally dissing a game just because of a certain quality that they do not like. This game is awesome and very fun. I was always marveled how this game’s levels were out of this world. Something that was out of my wildest dreams . The mech and treasure hunting stages where fun. Those are the stages that I’m really good at . Playing someone who was not Sonic was interesting and wonderful experience. The game respects the characters that we know and love . So , this is one of the best sonic games ever made in my book.
Don't forget Super Mario 64. Even if they did, they wouldn't take OOT and MM as severely as Sonic cause "Sonic is always bad".
The thing I like the most about sonic games is that they usually start out in a tropical paradise or city and end in a futuristic, sterile environment or space. It almost feels like most of the time in games sonic is trying to find ways to get into space since that’s usually where eggmans bases are located.
Beautifully done - allowed me to finally share in something deeply meaningfully and genius within this game and these characters. My son has always known about the brilliance in this - but I always saw it as a kid game with cartoony characters and I've missed all of this until tonight. But tonight I got to watch this with my son and bond with him by being able to see what he's been trying to explain for years since he was a little kid with way more insight even as young boy then I ever knew - and I always knew he was a brilliant - I just didn't know Sonic and Shadow and this whole universe was too. Kailen - I finally get it.
Awwwww your comment is so wholesome :3
@@minervasucicorbegoso2097incredibly wholesome
"ThAt's NoT SOniC"
Me: Okay......yeah, but how many anthropomorphic Hedgehogs that run super fast, that collect rings and chaos emeralds do you know of???
Two, but I think Amy will get there when she's older. Silver might his similar speeds but he doesn't bother to run.
@@Twilord_ "doesn't bother to run"? Have you ever played Sonic Rivals 1 or 2?
@@x-mighty7602 I didn't own a PSP. Is Silver actually as fast as them in that without hovering off the ground?
@@x-mighty7602 he hovers, and silver is far in the future GUN doesn't know silver.
@@Twilord_ Yes, he is.
I really love Rouge and Shadow’s friendship in sonic o6. When Omega goes into the future and finds that he was the one who re-sealed shadow when the world grows to fearful of him and Rouge promises that no matter what happens she will always stay with him. That was sweet. As is the conclusion where he fights off mephiles telling him that he’s gonna fight and protect the world no mater what it dose to him. I feel that perfectly fits Shadows role as a servant to hopes and dream if a ideal world.
I also recommend the comics. Archie or IDW, they are the ones to go to for a sonic story with meat on its bones. And the comics also do a good job using these characters affectively.
Shadow's story in 06 is legit good. It's what convinced me that bringing Shadow back is worth it, because he's important to the cast of the Sonic series because he provides a unique perspective on the world. 06 kinda salvaged Shadow's character from Heroes and StH and solidified Team Dark as an iconic trio.
Ruby of Blue I never realized how much I hated sonic heroes plot until you kinda showed us what we lost. I still like some of the interaction. One part that stick out was after sonic’s team fights team dark and during the next level the discuss it a little a Knuckles jokes “maybe it was the G H O S T of Shadow” just to spook out Tails. And I really really like Omega. He’s a cool guy and is a interesting dark parallel to shadow. As someone that goes against his creators wishes. Which could be a cool other parallel to Metal Sonic but for some reason are never meaningfully connected as mirrors or contrast what kind of writing is that?!? But yeah thanks for making me think harder about sonic heroes. Thank I hate it. Lol
Infinite Octopaw
I think Sonic Heroes was fine,
Not every story has to be complex,
Sometimes it’s needs to take a breath,
I like Sonic Adventure 2 storyline I really do,
And it did Introduce & Brought back my Favourite Characters E-123 Omega & Metal Sonic,
(Thank you for reading.)🙏
@@RubyofBlue A simple solution to Knuckles's problems in Heroes (and Riders and 06) would be to use Amy as the power character of Team Sonic instead, it would make more sense for her to be in Sonic's company than him. This would also mean that Team Rose would be completely scrapped but they didn't contribute much to the story so it wouldn't be that big a loss, same goes for the rival battles (the characters start fights for flimsy reasons) in general. Shadow's own games story had to bend to the will of the stupid progression system so it would be easy to wright a proper story for it without it. 06 would just need more properly defined rules for it's time travel (like you can't encounter your past self or else you would cancel yourself out of existence. Also the removal of characters like Knuckles for example because the story of 06 has nothing to do with the master emerald. I don't mind Heroes story and I think 06's narrative isn't bad (for a first draft because there were clearly things that needed to be ironed out) but I can understand your disappointment. 06 made Shadow my favorite character and it is a shame to see him and all the other characters reduced to either cardboard cutouts or functions like how Knuckles is the power type regardless of whether or not it makes sense.
I personally thought about how to fix the story of shadow the hedgehog without losing much and it ain't easy. I would not want to scrap the progression system, so there would essencially more if-s in the rewrite than in the code of a noobprogrammer. I do have an idea for an alternate noncanon storymode(yeah, shadow is destined to have 95% of it's content be non canon) tho where there would only be dark and hero-routes and it would be the story of the characters end basicly. the idea is built around the unused song all of me btw.
This man's explanation of "Live and Learn" is so insightful and very well done. He does a great job of dissecting the lyrics while relating both real life issues and experiences that the cast of characters went through
It made me realize that live and learn is almost more of a poem than a song.
@@reinhardt5410 yes
12 years from my highlight of this game, and yet the music and the lyrics still hit home like I just finished the story. Such a gem
I absolutely enjoyed every second of this video. This game has been part of my life for 17 and a half years and is by far one of my most played games ever. I've most likely put in well over 1000 hours into it, and have familiarized myself with nearly every line of dialogue in the English release. The way you put into the words the amount of effort, the way the story was conveyed among other things was absolutely amazing. I've wanted to make a video on this subject for quite some time, but it looks like now I don't have to. I share the very same thoughts and opinions on this game. You've put everything into perspective from how well this games story is told and what needed and didn't need to be shown for an audience to understand the themes. Sonic Adventure 2 is a fast paced, heart wrenching work of art that deserves all the praise it gets. Well done, by far one of the best videos on this game to date. You've graciously earned yourself another subscriber.
Seriously, how could Eggman come from a Big bad, to a Big dope! How could Shadow come from the Ultimate life form, to the Ultimate edge lord! And Tails come from the brave side kick, to the side kick who can barely even stand on his own two feet without Sonic as a crutch! Really Sega, you messed up on something so simple as keeping characters consistant? I'm truely dissapointed in a company that over the past year, I've grown so much respect for!
Sonic Team and SEGA have shown that they have had no clue what they're doing for years. They put the director of Generations in charge of Mario and Sonic at The Olympic Games 2014 and had somebody else come in to direct Lost World. After that, they used up THREE of the FOUR years they were given to make Forces and used three of those years to make a new graphics engine that doesn't even look as good as the original Hedgehog Engine, and then had THREE level designers work on the level design for three different characters in about a year. Those level designers also never worked on a Sonic game prior to Lost World, and one of them from what I understand had only ever worked on one of the Olympic Games spinoffs. It really starts to make you realize why over half of the stage locals are from past games, specifically the genesis title, and also why they're rarely over a minute in length. Of course that really only barely scrapes the surface of Sonic Team's/SEGA's fuck ups and doesn't even cover the garbage they've done before 2010, relating directly to games or other media.
After watching this multiple times, I've gone to appreciate the older games. SA2 being the most appreciated. Because a common thing I've noticed and this is apparent in Jebtube's videos and how much you repeated it. The older games, mostly Sonic 1 2 3& Knuckles SA1 &SA2, they each build off each other. Game Apologist lightly remarks on this in his "Unapologetic Sonic 3 & Knuckles" video. To this day I still remember the stories of SA1, SA2, Sonic & The Secret Rings, and Sonic & The Black Knight the most. Anyway, I said all that to say I loved the video and I wish the older games could be played on the newer systems like the PS4. No, I'm never counting PS Now as a way to play them.
I just picked up Sa1DX and Sa2B ports on my xbox one , I'm told they run on the series x as well
Though DX is notoriously a bad port and so Is sa2b to an extent , it's still my preferred way to play given that I dont have a pc
Watching this after Sonic Movie 2 and it’s just crazy that SA2 is about to be a blockbuster movie and I can’t wait
I really do believe that Sonic 06 is the reason they wont make another adventure style game, but i fully believe that if they get people on the team that understand the SA games and work together to make a true SA3 that it could be done. Mania was made by people that love the 2D games so I fully believe this could be a thing. The problem is that Sonic Team really doesnt seem to get it anymore. IMO the worst parts of Sonic Mania were things like it being tied to Sonic Forces. The team didnt want to make a game full of remade levels, they wanted a brand new 2D Sonic game. Its like Sega doesnt understand there own character and its just surreal.
I also want to point out that I am very much sick of the boost games at this point. I like them enough but I honestly feel like im buying the same game with a different coat of paint. Say what you want about SA1,2, Heroes, and 06, they felt like very different games to me, with SA2 being the peak of content for a Sonic game. Generations has a lot of it too but SA2, to me, is the Sonic game with the absolute best replay-ability and the most things to do. Its also very challenging a lot of the time to A rank a mission. S Ranking missions in boost games are a friggen joke now with maybe 1 level being slightly challenging if your lucky, but it does say alot when I pop in SA2 again and find myself really working to get the A ranks despite me already 100%ing this game quite a bit of times.
What I think should happen is that Sega should bring people on that know and love the SA games, get them to make an SA style game the same way Sonic Mania was a 2D style game, and see what happens. I dont know how it would go now a days though with people bashing these games left and right now and trying to drag these games in the mud. I can only hope something like that happens though.
Wrong. Unleashed was originally gonna be SA3 before they decided to focus more on Sonic. And that game had a pretty good plot. Colours onwards, the stories and characters got butchered. And S Ranking is definitely not a joke in Unleashed. It has the same Rank Principles as SA2 and 06. Colours onward though, S Ranks are a joke.
I think they know that the adventuregames and similar sidegames are superior,but they have a destinct fear of the past from the bashing that sa1-shadow received in the recent years and from the financial failure 06 was. unleashed was the last adventure game(its japanese name is actually world adventure) and people hated everything that had to do with the werehog. then they just released black knight to give the edgy fans their final fix and went on to make colors. it is kinda sad how much the series lost its backbone really.
@@awesomeguy2009 It's interesting how the game started off as Adventure 3 while 06 was still being made.
My guess is they were in the early stages, then they saw Sonic 06's reception and tried to get away from it.
Which meant killing Adventure 3 off I guess, because 06 became an argument trump card for those who disliked the Adventure games.
@@awesomeguy2009 In Colors, you mostly revisit levels and abuse color bonuses to boost your score. It's not about learning the best path through levels and balancing out speed and defeating enemies so much that it's finding the one way you're supposed to get S Ranks, which isn't skill-based.
@@AkameGaKillfan777 S Ranks are super easy in Colours but at least it takes effort. S Ranks in Generations and Forces are too easy in general.
You know looking back, I actually didn’t think about this before but you know what’s also an interesting parallel to SA1? Maria and Shadow. Let me explain: in SA1 who was devoted to Chaos and who was also devoted to protecting the Chao (innocent creatures) in SA1? Tikal. Similarly, Who was loyal to Maria? Shadow. If we compare Maria’s desire to protect the innocent people on Earth, to Tikal’s desire to protect the Chao and protecting innocent people from being pillaged and plunged by the echidnas, then you realize Maria standing up to G.U.N can also be a parallel to how Tikal stood up to her father for killing innocent people and not opening up their hearts, much like how the military refused to spare Maria and the others on the colony.
I've just finished 100 percenting Sonic Adventure 2. You can guess what my favourite Sonic game is now.
Congratulations!! Im trying to do the same rn.
If I have one complaint. It would be how tedious it is to raise chao to win chao races just to get ten emblems. Aside from that (as well as a few frustrating missions), it was a blast.
Cool that's amazing. Sonic adventure 2 battle GameCube version is my favorite.
I'm guessing, Sonic Rush.
@@IGSA101 well i'm guessing mega man 8
I loved Sonic Adventure 2 before, but this analysis of the story makes me fall in love with this brilliant game all the more. Incredible.
I don't know who is saying the story is trash, and I don't even care.
This level of storytelling, lighting, voice direction, respect for the characters, and nuance... This is what's needed in a story, and this is what brings people back to this game. Yes, it has plotholes and gaps in knowledge, but this video has shown how easy it is to patch them up should this game be remade (well). And I have a new appreciation for Live and Learn, which I've always placed behind Open Your Heart--not anymore.
The world needs a Sonic Adventure 3.
The Sonic Adventure games had a strong balance between lighthearted and dark moments. Every other Sonic game story wise is either too simplistic with not much depth (Heroes, Colors, Generations, Lost World, etc), overly dramatic and too serious (Shadow, 06, Forces), or relied on visuals due to hardware limitations (Sonic 2 and especially 3).
Yet the Genesis games were epic too, at least 2 and 3 & Knuckles were.
I wasn't knocking the Mega Drive games. The fact that Sonic 2 and especially 3 could tell a coherent story with no dialogue is something I have massive respect for (not to mention the attention to detail when exploring Angel Island from one zone to another). If there was one thing Sonic did better than Mario from the start, it was storytelling. Dr. Robotnik coming super close to taking over the world at the end of Sonic 3 really gave the impression that he was learning from his mistakes and improving his villain act.
I will admit it's weird that Dr. Eggman went from world domination intentions to destroying one city in Sonic Adventure but then again he probably didn't have the money to build another Death Egg.
Exactly, and I also love how the Genesis games connect to the Adventure titles, as George Lucas would say, it rhymes. :)
@@knucklesechidna2124 I agree with you guys. With each genesis sonic game, Sonic team expanded on the storytelling. That's why mania was disappointing imo. Good level design, ost and controls but it just lacked overall substance. If anything, its story is behind Sonic 2 and is barely above sonic 1's level of storytelling.
I can't group Heroes with those other 3. Simplicity doesn't group with the over-light-heartedness. Heroes was as simple as it could get, but with using established roles. The characters were shallow but still in line with who they were in the Adventure games. As for Colors, Generations, and Lost World...I can't even begin to explain the lack of consistency with the characters in those games - not to mention the lack of relevant characteristics.
What I love about Gerald's research when trying to create the ultimate life form is that Shadow and the biolizard are pretty much artificial versions of Sonic and Perfect Chaos it really explains a lot on how Gerald actually has been to Angel island and the mystic ruins trying to make his own scientific creation
Great analysis. For years SA2's story has been my favourite in the series. It has great action, funny moments that don't bog down the pace of the story and is genuinely heartwarming. All of the characters were very well handled in this story (except Amy, she doesn't really do much after prison Island and before the final story) especially Sonic, Shadow, Tails and Dr Eggman.
I think Sega misunderstood what made SA2's story work. SA2 earned its darker moments by building them up. Most importantly it focused on the characters themselves. I think this is where Shadow, 06 and Forces really missed the mark. Shadow The Hedgehog completely bastardized Shadow's character and was way too forceful at being dark. 06 tried to be dark and mysterious but failed due to boring characters and wasting time with repetitive plot points that go nowhere. Forces not geniene at all with its story. It doesn't build up its darker aspects and drops them within a second for an annoying joke and friendship speech.
If they want to do another serious story again the writers should think on how to actually fit the characters into the story and build it up. Both Adventure games start light on the tension before picking up. They could also do what Unleashed did and start dark but then ease the tension for the first few levels. What is most important is that they should genuinely commit to a serious story, make it interesting, earn the serious moments and get the characters right.
Amy has a good purpose in the story, helping Shadow realize Maria's wish. It's not as big a role as SA1, but to me it's just as important. This game is more story driven so they gutted Amy's gameplay for making both Hero and Dark gameplay exactly the same. But I'm okay with her being there in the story's cutscenes. At least they gave her a part. These days Sonic characters just cheer from the sidelines.
Why do you have such a problem with Friendship? You do know it's in adult medias too, right?
@@obd9660
The theme of freindship by itself is so boring and overdone, its really difficult to be done well, it can be included but it should have more unique messages within it. Even your basic power of freindship shonens like Naruto and One Piece have underlying messages that expand on it.
Why do you want a serious story? Couldn't it easily be boring or too complex for viewers to care?
@@obd9660 True, but the friendship speeches in Forces get a little forced. (Ha!)
"IT's ToO dARk fOR a SOnIc gaMe"
Yeah, It's not like the games had a tyrant enslaving animals to build a dictatorship or something.
Ah, so it makes sense. While in custody, Gerald Robotnik modified Shadow's memories of his final moment with Maria, so that he would seek revenge against humanity, just like he wants, instead of willing to protect it. He made so that Shadow if set free, would grant his wish, and not Maria's.
This just shows how the poor English localization of this game really adds to the confusion around the story. This game's scenario already felt good despite some flaws and inconsistencies here and there but now that you've shown the intended version, in original Japanese, it looks so much better. Man, the nerve of them to go back to cringy writing and shallow storytelling in games like Colors and Lost World after the gem that was SA2's story. Thanks for making this video and setting things clear man; this game can definitely use some positivity!
Shadow never got out much, if at all. Maria was his only friend. Of course he'd take it too far if anything happened to her, his only happiness in life. Especially since she died right in front of him at the hands of GUN. I don't think his memories were modified, but I can accept it as just a what if theory.
@@knucklesechidna2124 According to the Japanese text of Gerald's diary, the professor did modify Shadow's memories. If not, then why would Shadow seek revenge against humanity if Maria's last will was for him to protect it instead?
Honestly, I kinda wish the Story was laid out slightly diffrently. The way it is currently, there are three diffrent versions of the event and none of them really make sence if we look really close. All three have GUN just shoot Maria because "eh, let's kill this girl" and the two versions shown in Shadow the Hedgehog do not even have Maria send shadow down. Not to mention, how did she even have the time to do that in the version shown in SA2 when they were shooting her down?
I would like it more if how shadow tells the story would be the fake memory given by Gerald and the SA2 Version would be the way his mind overwrote those memories with a blurry moment of Maria giving him her last wish because he was pretty close to her and the Version he remembers at the end of the game is just his mind correcting since amy remembers him that she would have never wished for revenge.
And shadow the hedgehog seemed to messed that part up saying Gerald wanted shadow to complete his purpose when in reality he wanted for humanity to die. Shadow 05 was such a missed opportunity.
@@nascarconnor1254 Well, at first gerald wanted good for humanity and then when he saw that everyone he knew and loved was killed in the event, including maria, he constructed the revengeplot. It would actually work well with shadow the hedgehog even....if the eclipse cannon did not get destroyed in SA2. That is kinda a continuityerror anyways tho since eggman canonically inserts the real emerald into the energyconsole instead of sonic inserting the fake.
i gotta admit i was one of those people who didn't get how people can mistake shadow for sonic, but now you've made such a valid point,i totally understand it now!!
Phew... what a wild ride these two reviews were, and I must say I wholeheartedly agree with everything you've said. The adventure games have received an incredible amount of hate, and your analyses show just how underserved this hate really is.
Those were real reviews, made by someone who is passionate and is not afraid of putting in a lot of work to really explain, in-depth, why these games are really good and what are their flaws. I couldn't enough stress the need to set the record straight about the adventure games: despite their flaws and a poor English localization, they fully deserve to be praised for their amazing gameplay and storytelling. Unfortunately, a bunch of angry reviewers who lazily put up a half-assed critique of games they likely didn't play for a long time tarnished SA1 and 2's reputation, but I really hope that passionate reviewers can bring some positivity and finally change some minds. Maybe then, we will finally get full-fledged remasters of SA1 and 2, and a Sonic Adventure 3. Thanks a million for taking the time to make an over three hours long analysis in defense of this amazing game.
I haven’t started watching yet but YASSSS QUEEN. Sonic had such good storytelling I HATE that we never get any anymore #bringsonicstoriesback
It's my first game that had a story to follow. I remember being so invested with the colourful cast of characters that I watched Sonic X and became a fan of the series!
They should throw out everything after Adventure 2 and pick up where the story left off with a proper Adventure 3.
And make the canon even more of a mess? Why not just make everything after Unleashed non-canon (and redo 06's story) because it doesn't make sense with the rest of the canon?
@@charliekahn4205 Dude, did you not read my comment?
"Throw out everything after A2 and make A3."
Throw out. As in retcon. As in strike from canon.
How the hell does that make the canon more of a mess? It literally does the opposite. What was your logic here?
@@RichterTheRat Because it would separate the Adventure canon from the Modern canon, creating a total of at least four.
@@charliekahn4205 No, modern canon wouldn't exist, like Sonic Boom, dmc: Devil May Cry, or the Rob Zombie Halloween movies.
You'd pick up where Adventure 2 left off with Adventure 3 then jump off from there. Meaning Heroes, StH, 06, Unleashed, Colors, Lost World, Generations, Forces, etc. None of it happened.
They really should. They made such a mess now it’s such a disappointment. I at the moment consider every 3d game except shadow 05 canon. Sonic 06 technically never happened as well but the event did happen before being erased. Colors is not canon, generations is (makes a mess though) lost world and forces are definitely not canon. I think it would of been better if they kept shadow dead, he was only good in 06 and even then he was still to silent and shy but his actions did speak for themself. I would like shadow around if they based him off the Archie comics, he is exactly represented well then.
Sonic Adventure 2 is garbage because the ghosts gave me nightmares the first time I played, and they still freak me out. 0/10
Joking aside, I hate the ghosts but I appreciated this game and Adventure 1 a hell of a lot more once I played with Windii's translations. This gave me a bit of a deeper appreciation beyond that, though. Great video!!
Meteor Herd creates a cliffhanger and suspense within Sonic's storyline which you'd expect to be followed up on as soon as possible. It's really crafty.
Thank you, it was very well done.
2:04:19 That is the most interesting shit I've heard in a very long time. Insane. Great find !
SA2 IS GOOD GAME. SA2 IS GOOD GAME. SA2 IS GOOD GAME. GIMME MORE SA2 PLOX THANK YOU.
Alright, but yeah, this game is a LOT better than other big name game critics have made it out to be. You have single-handedly proven it. Good job with your feature-length long reviews.
This review and his rebuttal review to Projared's review of SA2 really showed that the game really was a diamond in the rough in the modern day.
SA2 is not a good game.
It's not really a bad game either.
It's the definition of a mixed bag
@@Spamus not really. Its got a lot of good stuff in it making me think its great. But thats fine if thats your opinion
@@alfa01spotivo that's not a very thorough critique of the game tho.
And I just want to say that whether a game is actually "good" or not should not stop anyone from enjoying the game. If you like it, then more power to you
@@Spamus Yeah, try not to rub your opinions into other people's faces. Sharing opinions is fine, but your tone is just so annoyingly condescending. Also, game design is something that's subjective. To me, SA2's gameplay is 2/3 amazing, and 1/3 alright. The other aspects like story, art direction, post-game are all great too.
Ruby, it would be awesome to hear you talk about Heroes-Shadow-S06. I have an all-new appreciation of these games after watching your streams and actually replaying Shadow because of you.
The adventure games, unleashed, and black knight are peak sonic storytelling imo. They all started out lighthearted, but got serious and got stakes as the game progressed. Something I noticed is that this has been a thing in the form of level aesthetic since the first game (compare green hill and scrap brain and you see what i mean), and each game afterwards expanded on that storytelling, with it truly taking off in Sonic 3&K. Even if the adventure games’ presentation aged horribly (even more so Adventure 1) they’re still amazing in story imo and expanded on everything from the classics.
You know I already loved SA2 even when people started hating the game after a certain reviewer did a half-ass review on it. I knew deep down the story did have lots of heart and thought put into it though yes, I will admit that I did think the usual seeming plot holes like the dumbness of Sonic being mistaken for Shadow, Sonic using the power of a fake Chaos Emerald, and many others but after hearing someone actually bring in some context about why these things actually aren't plot-holes, I can admit wrongness on my end. The only one that I wish had more context was how Amy managed to sneak onto Prison Island. See this is why it would've been if they had Amy be a minor playable character, they could've done one level for her where she's traversing Prison Island to get to Sonic's jail cell. I dunno, I think that would've been cool and would've played on her character from the first SA game showing that she really is trying to be more independent. But aside from that, I happily take back the other plotholes I bought into, especially people mistaking Sonic for Shadow because what you said is true, context is important in a lot of these cases.
Though I will say that even as a kid, I did catch on to the secret agent contacting the President's secretary was Rouge which I thought was clever as it hinted towards it without outright telling you. And I never played the game in Japanese but holy crap I can see why some people say the script was better than the dub. I do really like the English Voice Actors even if the acting wasn't perfect but seeing the Japanese script, I really wish they didn't change it and kept it straight though I think it's because of the usual "It's too dark for children!" thing but Eugh... Just why? The original script was so bloodcurdling in a lot places. I really was missing out haha. I'm also reminded how great Shadow was presented in his debut and it's such a shame his character was flabbergasted in the later games. In my opinion as much as I love the character, he should've stayed dead after SA2 as it would've cemented his legacy just like what happened to E-102 Gamma.
I know that it's the popular thing to hate on SA2 and say things like it really wasn't as good as we remember or thought but I just have to disagree. Yes it's true that many people praise this game but look at all it did, can you really be surprised that it garnered such a huge fanbase for it? With all the context put into the story when you actually think about it and how some of the gameplay quirks aren't as bad as you'd believe if you know practice the ins and outs of how it worked, the game truly was an experimental gem in the Sonic franchise that took risks and while not perfect, a great era for Sonic's evolution into 3D (before it all went downhill...).
Anyway amazing retrospective, probably one of the best videos on SA2 I've seen. :)
Out of curiosity who was the reviewer who started the trend of mocking the Sonic Adventure series? I've seen a number of videos detailing that same sentiment, but I didn't know it had any specific origin point. I always just figured it was a popular game that got recommended to people over the years, and as games in general got better the flaws in the Sonic Adventure series became more noticable. Well that, and a lot of online discourse being pretty toxic. But I'd be interested in seeing the original review that spawned all this, if for nothing more than to leave a thought-out rebuttal to the points raised.
@@0dayrepairs It was Arin from Game Grumps.
@Games oh god I hate that review.
@@misterhimura036 Game Grumps disliking a Sonic game? Wow, I didn't see that one coming . . .
The best part is they did say rouge was working for the president, shadow specifically said rouge got direct orders fro the president when he figured her out in the dub.
I’ve always adored the Adventure games since I was super young and have been saddened for a long time by how many people have written them off as bad games with bad stories. the love that you have for this game shines clear through your words and it’s just so refreshing to hear it made me tear up several times. this is a wonderful video, man, I’m so glad I watched it.