Li-ion vs LiFePO4 Batteries: Advantages and Disadvantages
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- Опубліковано 7 січ 2021
- My book "DIY Lithium Batteries" on sale at amzn.to/2jbxvzS
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5% off these 5000 mAh LiFePO4 batteries from bit.ly/Battery_Hookup with code EBIKE
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Here are some of the products I use:
Bafang BBS01 kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/N0sm1W1w
Bafang BBS02 kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/EcGPWXRE
Bafang BBSHD kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/MMNrZUC0
250W complete e-bike kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/cQzxxhpm
500W complete e-bike kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/o6rnMv1q
1,000W complete e-bike kit: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/NGZvnq3Q
36V 15Ah Hailong (shark) battery: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/CAEvhRSY
48V 15 Ah triangle battery: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/234OZ5Kg
52V 20 Ah triangle battery: s.click.aliexpress.com/e/m0huJ2PI
All ebike batteries: goo.gl/7pAi9Z
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Cycle Analyst: goo.gl/RsmE3N
The parts that I use for building batteries:
18650 cells: goo.gl/aEabAQ
18650 positive insulating washer: goo.gl/HBVOuc
Nickel strip: goo.gl/VIrNQq
Spot welder: goo.gl/KN3Uaw
BMSs: goo.gl/S6gSQx
Silicone wire: goo.gl/xmpbKD
Black 18650 cell spacers: goo.gl/hQxWF6
Vruzend cell spacers: goo.gl/5ReLqA
Large heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/6v1ow9
Small heat shrink tubing: goo.gl/OU3Z6u
Foam sheet for protecting battery: goo.gl/5e71tE
Kapton tape: goo.gl/D6BT57
Chargers: goo.gl/js0T0V
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Another feature: after a year of use, capacity of LiFePO4 decreases less quickly than the capacity of Li-Ion, so, after a year you are left with roughly the same energy density per mass / volume as with LiFePO4. And the capacity of Li-Ion battery is decreasing still more quickly...
I have both and never let either one drop below 60% so I'm hoping to get at least double or triple the cycles they are advertising. None of them have ever gone down to zero yet. I'm expecting at least ten or more years out of my Power Queen LifePo4 200 ah batteries
@@philc.9280 you're right
the operation range for LiFePO4 batterys is down to 20% per cycle so it would seem you might just be wasting capacity And I'm not sure doing that extends the life of the battery.
@@philc.9280That's helping no one.. the ideal state of Lithium based batteries goes from 30% to 85%.
To avoid confusion: *LiFePo are Li-ion batteries.* "Li-ion vs. LiFePo" is only a colloquial distinction, but won't help you when looking for technical or scientific information. It is pretty much the same as the other often used colloquial distinction between "Lipo and Li-ion", labels which were wrongly assigned to pouch cells vs. cylindrical cells (the contents are pretty much the same).
Li-ion is the name of all cells that use Lithium to store energy, which LiFePo do as well. The difference is that the cathode material contains iron-phosphate instead of the usual cobalt/nickel/manganese oxides. The rest is pretty much the same.
Pronunciation makes ion vs Iron a pain, I've found calling them "Lithium Ferrous Phosphate" when selling them matches the lettering on the side better for customers to understand easily.
@@PiDsPagePrototypes Is the charging method is different? I am used to Lipo but not LiFePo.
@@ernanimartins LiPo can accept a higher input current the LiFePo, and output much higher currents, and the voltage per cell is different 3.7v for LiIon vs 3.2v for LiFePo. This is why LiFePo is an easy replacement for AGM and Sealed Lead - similar charge/discharge and voltage per cell. Most commercially available chargers now have modes for Lead and for LiFePo.
Something is not right in your comment.
@@mrcleanisin Yeah, I don't think he watched the video....
i've been using a LiFePo4 battery on my modded Lectric XP for a short while now, and super happy with it. i switched to this tech for the safety aspect
Love your videos Micah, I rode my ebike in the snow last night, tons of fun!
I recently purchased DIY rear Wheel Motor kit to install on a mountain bike that I built.
I'm saving money now for batteries but have honestly been pretty confused about what I'm looking for.
This video helped answer some of the questions that I had. I may try the LiFePO4 route. I look forward to your battery build!
I'm building my own EV, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible about batteries. Thanks Micah for the info.
You da man. Do it.!
Go phosphate especially as it's your first build. Safe is always good.
LiFePO4 are being used in commercial sold electric vehicles. Everything from semi tractors for 50t gross weight to Tesla (they use LiFePO4 in the small battery version).
I've got LFP in my Tesla. I definitely think it's the way to go!
Nice! Can't wait to see the next video project using these batteries & then a follow up on how well they work/last long term
Thank you for mentioning prices, a big help for the DIY-crowd. It makes it more interesting to be part of off the grid crowd. Cheers, DK. .
Cheers,...
I just finished second ebike thanks to your video and now making a three wheeler and business is soaring with your help thanks sooo much
You are so good at teaching people. Also a nice person. Great to watch this.
As always, thanks for the great info and breaking it down quickly and easily. Also, your hair was definitely on point this episode.
I like the way you're explaining by highlighting both the pros and cons.
Thanks for the great info, look forward to the build and comparison.
Thank you for the info. Stay safe. Looking forward to the build.
Here is my random comment! I already bought three of your books. Thank you for the informative battery videos and books.
Yep same, i would love to see a continuation video on your retro E-Motobike build in the near future. I still think its a cool concept that needs to be put on back on the streets. 👍👌😊🚴
Your channel has become my biggest source of knowledge in my bid to make a DIY e-bike battery, congratulations
Can't wait to see the video for the build.
you just make it so easy to understand all this stuff.
Thanks for sharing the difference between the two types of lithium batteries!
Tremendously informative video covering all kinds of properties of each cell type. I learned a lot!
your content is always so informative, i really enjoy watching you videos
Good information. I used this to help pick out a jump starter.
Your videos are well formatted and informative. Thank you!
I'm actually looking forward to the battery build.
X 2.
I wish to thank you for combining theory and practical data in such a clear and concise manner for the newbie. I have a request.... being totally new to the EV world (but with decades of computer technology involving seldom connected and emergency backup power needs)... I understand the compromises involved with such technology... however I searched long and hard for any coverage of Torque/Power outside the context of speed. I am not seeking speed but torque and your explanations have helped greatly. So my particular build will be require addressing my rather small radius of travel (local errands/shopping) over some very hilling terrain... STEEP hills. As a retired senior citizen 3 wheelers make sense, and since I shop exclusively at Big and Tall clothing stores a heavy steel frame makes sense... I also am considering FAT tires feeling not only a more comfortable ride but the increased roadway contact will maximize power transfer into forward progress... (???) SO MY REQUEST of you... do these design decisions make sense? Total weight factor will be plugged in at 500 lbs MAX... bike, electronics, rider and packages (figure weight of a gallon of milk, 12 pack of cola... $75 of fresh meat, produce and dairy can get hefty.) Finally with the trike frame and power train (as I understand it) ... we have a power driven axle rather than power driven hub concept (which is why all kits I have seen tackle by front wheel hub motors)... my concept will actually attach a second sprocket to that rear axle... giving (hopefully) max power delivery to rear of vehicle. Second option would be to put the spoke on the rear idle wheel and effectively have both wheels under power (weird kind of power assist). So in short my request is can you address trikes as ebike conversions... or off the shelf offerings? Finally I will impose upon your good nature and ask for your opinions and comments on my 'over loaded' e-bike concept.
+1
Great! Can't wait for the build vid.
I’m so glad I found your channel
Happy New Year! Thanks for the great content....
Love your content! I am planning to build an ebike myself and will use your videos and books as reference :D
Thank you for your video I have already one of your books and it is very well presented, learnt a lot from it
Just found ur channel and it is a great explanation on the difference of both battery types.
Thankyou for being precise and distinct with your statements, very well done.
Right video at right time!!! I have also planning to switch to LiFePO4 from Lead Acid battery for my e-scooter.
Thanks so much Micah!
I bought a bunch of LifePO4 cells and am hoping to start building some different systems. I have not been able to find any accessories however. For example: which nickel strips, which charger/tester, which spot welder, etc. I look forward to your upcoming video on the build, however, if you could pass along any specific info that would be great. Thanks again
Ok, so I just saw the video on a spot welder. Question is, can you power the welder with something other than a LiPO battery pack?
It would be nice to not have to invest in another type of battery and charger, plus the Lipo's are more dangerous and that is one of the things that the iron phosphate are trying to avoid. If there is no other option, do you have a charger for the lipo pack that you recommend?
Dude thank you. I love your videos. I learn so much. Show me how to build a battery for my bike.
This video was well put together and it was very informative.
I like the idea of increased recharge cycles of the LifePo4 batteries. I love this improving technology, and the amazing new products I am seeing! I want a hover skateboard one day lol
Good information. Thanks looking forward to the build.
Thanks for all this helpful info!
What project are these going into?
Looks like I need to run some calculations! My batter is getting old and I’d like to rework the bike. It’s a lovely built-in battery box of my own design though so internal space is limited. I’m considering external boosters though (with the right safety measures).
I'm currently building a 12v 30AH battery out of 6A cells from that very place. I was watching your solar kayak video a few months back and I'm planning on using this battery for that purpose. My question is, how much run time can I reasonably expect out of this? And is an mppt controller necessary for this or would a cheap pwm charger work just fine?
this is great information, thank you for making this video as I'm starting a small company with lifepo4.
Looking forward to your build
This was immensely helpful thank you!
Thanks for sharing and clearing up some confusion.
Great video Micah. Thanks for the education.
Another absolutely fantastic vid.Thanks from Seattle.
First time leaving a comment on any UA-cam video! Really learned a lot from yours!
Neat to see Iron phosphates here.
Odd question Micha; I've felt like eBike and small vehicles should go for the Iron Phosphates instead of Lithium ions for those reasons; that their stability in temperatures (since most bikes won't have radiators or temperature controls) and their ability to be deep-discharged without damage makes them a better choice at the end of a build. What do you think?
Year later but whatever, dont know about temp but deepcylcing is no problem for lifepo
Looking forward to the build
Thank You for the clear explanation of battery chemistries.
Great content and if I had a kid I would require they watch you each day. Your a good teacher thanks
Just curious to know why you opted for their 5Ah rated lifepo4 cell over their 6Ah version? Surely you could get even more capacity for the same size, and with both being 3c max CDR rated, even more current capability?
these are very exciting batteries I always learn so much here thank you. I'm trying to build a three-wheeled cargo type utility vehicle mainly dirt and gravel road and I want high torque how would I go about that and are batteries important and creating torque?
Oh man i really want to learn how you build the battery packs and all!!
after all videos are good and informative.
Thank you ✔
Thanks. Good info on the difference between the two cell types.
Thank you your videos, I find them very informative. I think your books are worth taking a good look at Thanks again! Rene
That was well said and easy to understand. Looking forward to more videos.
Very informative, keep up the good work.
Great information, I have wondered about the difference.
Nice to know the differences, thanks.
looking forward to the battery back build video. awesome :)
So when's the next book coming out? I've learned a lot from your videos, keep it up.
Excellent comparison. I learned a lot.
Looking forward to your next project
Pretty neat video on the subject.
Easy to understand..
Thumbs up ..
Greating from Malaysia
ebike school is the best channel to learn about ebike batteries, motors and all, 2022 and beyond.
good video what kind of bms are you going to use --- has daly knowledge thanks
I’m really interested in solar power and it’s potential. Great video!
Love this channel, tons of information
Thanks, I have learned new things!
Awsome vid cleared up most of my questions :D
Is this going in the motorcycle conversion project?? ....and when are we picking back up with that build??? :)
inquiring minds want to know. I think the difficulties Micah could be facing with that build are really making similar builds look less and less feasible for the average joe.
Much easier to start with a purpose built frame like the one being featured of Capt Codswallops channel
Thanks for insights! I have heard some LiFePho batteries lasting 3000-4000!
Thank you for the information, I am looking for a replacement for my rv battery and was looking into lifepO4 batteries. You helped me make my decision.
Nice, concise and informative video. Thank you.
Very helpful, thanks. Looking for a LiFePO4 battery for my kayak trolling motor. A question - If I roll my kayak, will the brackish water short out the battery? if yes, should I fashion a sealed or waterproof container? Thanks
This was very helpful thank you
Would love one of your hooks. Learning slot . Thank you!!!
Interesting video, well explained. I saw these batteries in solar power/camping batteries and I had never heard of them before.
Will be neat to see how they go with an ebike with the extra bulk. I wonder how much you'd feel the weight.
Thank you mate i have been wanting to know the difference between the two batteries, and a good place to get them from. Question are you able to do a video about charging the different size packs that we make and what charges would be the best? As in can we get one charger to suit all different pack sizes?
My first time here, it's a very informative video. Thank you
Great explanations. Thank you!
Hi there, I am building a bafang middrive, and was going to build a 52v 20ish ah battery. I am at the point where i need to buy cells. I’ve been watching your videos and have bought all of your books except for the your solar books (I’ll get that soon!). For my application, would you recommend a 18s x 5p battery? I bought the malectircs arduino spot welder with the. Lipo option
Good stuff here! Glad I found your channel.
Love this channel...
Is it possible to use two batteries types in parallel to get the best benefits of both? Perhaps this idea would best suit an AWD solution where peak power is as critical as range?
anything is possible, the question is is it safe
Interesting info on the two types of batteries. It'll be interesting to see if companies will start to adopt LiFePO4 batteries for e-bikes and e-motorcycles in the near future.
Hello friend. This is Sophy from TOPA Technology Limited. We are a battery manufacturer. If you need some batteries. Pls contact me at WhatsApp/Skype 008615324942070
I'm going through my engineering college courses, one of my professors built his own LiFePO4 motorbike
4000 watt motor, 80 mile range, all powered by 24 60ah cells in a 72v configuration, 4.6 kilowatt hours
And now im here, researching what i need to put together a lifepo4 battery pack that can double as an Ebike battery and an emergency all in one power source
i was wondering about using these in my car for my audio equipment, any thoughts on if they are a good choice? thinking of buying 8
good explanation... thank you
great info micah!
woah i gotta try this out I look forward to the video
so informative, thank you
Did you ever finish this battery project, if so did you make a video of the finished product? I was looking at these batteries for my 1st DIY ebike.
Any followup video to the 32650/32700 cells you were spot welding? I have been using them to make small solar generators, but would love to see you make an ebike or something out of them? What would REALLY be cool is a Vruzend type kit for them.
Great video man nice work !!
Great and very informative video. I recently bought a 30 Ah 40 cell battery pack for my e-bike made of 18650 batteries. To my surprise it had the same weight and size as the 14 Ah battery pack bought earlier this year. Should there be a weight difference if you buy more Ah Li-Ion batteries? Thank you for your reply if you know the answer.
LFP are about 25% heavier
Hello again, it's been awhile! I saw your video on the spot welder you were using for these cells, but where are you 8 months later on the stack build and testing? BMS etc for this system?
thanx for the useful tips. What do you recommend if i want to build a 72v pack for a enduro style ebike with a sabvoton 150a controller? LiFePo4 or Li-ion?
Greetings from panama. Thanks for the videos. Much better than any trade school.