I hope you cleaned all this contaminated site after your tests. I can see the crop fields near by. Do you know that lithium batteries are very toxic, especially when burning. You even spilled some water on punctured cells, which then ended up in the soil. The worst thing is that it was done by firefighters, as usually they are the persons who knows about such dangers. But not in this case, it seems they are stupid enough even to breath in the toxic fumes.
safety and energy density is always a engineering tradeoff. most of the more volatile chemistries are perfectly safe if treated right. but there is something to be said about using inherently safer chemistries for alot of applications.
Exactly. Li-PoL are very common because of their form factor compared to that of the others. You may say that they're super dangerous, but that's if you're excluding modern circuitry that commonly comes with said batteries effectively eliminating almost all of the risks. Similar way to Nuclear Power in a way. It is arguably one of the cleanest and most efficient energy production methods. Modern plants have many safety features making a meltdown very very unlikely. But due to it being also one of the most horrible disasters if it does go horribly wrong, a few accidents have put a bad taste in many people's mouths.
@Stratos Fear Nuclear power is safe if you follow proper guidelines too :) Jokes aside, nuclear power is the most efficient source of energy right now and also one of the cleanest at the same time. Sure there is nuclear waste, but there are reactors in development that can use said waste as fuel. The most used power plants are still coal ones and they are much worse ecologically than the nuclear ones. Not even mentioning that by burning coal, there are radioactive particles released into the air.
@@mode3763 Because of the "very smart" people that fear the Nuclear energy. Germany is great example. They had shut down their nuclear power plants, yet their renewable energy sources aren't sufficient enough for the country. They are buying energy from other countries - that energy is mostly produced by coal and nuclear power plants. For example, Czechia is the one country that is selling it's energy to Germany. And Czechs do not want to shut down their nuclear power plants even tho there are a lot of protests from their neighbours. They even plan on upgrading the existing powerplants to get more energy, because they know that coal will once dry up and nuclear is only viable option in this part of the world. Solar panels are utopian dream that will cost huge amount of money and will pollute our planet a lot if everyone will really switch to that. Not even mentioning the need of some sort of energy storage for winters, bad weather times etc. It will be probably huge battery banks, which will only last for few decades since you know, batteries, that will pollute our world so much, that those "very smart" people will regret not trusting Nuclear energy.
I knicked a lithium pouch with a box cutter in my bedroom :) I ran with it in my hand to the other end of the house to find the screen door locked! Grabbed the keys and unlocked the door, I threw the battery which was a massive smoke machine by then, before it hit the ground it burst into flames ! That was a close call ! Lesson learnt !
That screen door is almost certainly a fire code violation. A point of egress must not lock to the inside without a readily available means of unlocking it.
So,regardless of battery and application (other than cars) it looks like it would be a good idea that the battery box should be something like a wood stove /oil drum stove with a chimney that vents to the outside for solar and wind battery banks just for precautionary safety... This video just made me redesign my bank in my head over a power wall
we make battery bunkers for charging lipo batteries in the FPV RC drone hobby. its a fireproof brick stove, with a battery charger inside... our 6s 1500mah batteries could burn a house to the ground.
Thanks for the video👍 Well I would have liked to see the voltage, current and Wh and the cell should have been at the same ah. As you see some people seam to be confused and believe that the "safe" cell has the same energy density. The first thing to understand wit battery is that there is a trade off no matter what you do.
Good points. LTO have less than half the Wattage-density and are lower voltage too. They also have a more stable voltage loss during discharge, which is great for output usage but makes measuring their charge percentage less accurate.
@@JasonJrake Uh... LTO has a higher cell voltage than LFP. It does have lower Watt (VoltAmp) density. Will Prowse has a nice comparison of LFP to LTO here: ua-cam.com/video/iOBSxEqXUQc/v-deo.html
@@kayzinti4452 I’ve seen that video and I’m not sure what you are referring to. The lowest listed nominal ratings i found online: for LTO is 2.4v, for LFP it’s 3.2v. Maybe cells arranged into 12+ volt stacks are higher voltage in LTO though, if that’s what you mean. The rule of thumb for lithium chemistries is that: As nominal voltage goes down, Discharge voltage slope flattens, Functional Temp range increases, Watt-hour density decreases, Safety increases.
I've been telling people for years about the dangers of making a battery bank with Lipo batteries and those people looked at me like I was crazy. While LIFePo4 batteries will combust also. The chances of having an unpleasant reaction inside a structure is greatly reduced especially with a battery management system that can monitor the temperature and the individual charge on each battery in an array. The cases that house the electrolyte for LIFePo4 batteries are pretty resilient against physical damage. They are unlikely to be damaged unless someone uses a tomahawk like in the video or uses a wrench and physically short circuits the cells through stupidity. Remember a fuse is your friend, always use one of the correct rating. A breaker may not be so friendly.
LiPol are mostly used in RC devices like planes and cars where performance is the most important (energy density and power density) safety is not a high priority in this application.
Overcharging circuitry is critical with those pouches. It's also necessary to seal properly; never pinch them on the top edge (or anywhere) like Samsung did with Galaxy Note 7.
Interesting tests! What was the state of charge of the batteries? Note that the probability of a thermal runaway significantly drops at a low state of charge. This is especially important when buying cells that have been transported by air. Those are usually shipped at 30% SoC.
LiFePO4 cells seems to be safe enough to replace the Li-ION cells inside my power bank. The hard part is to design a new charge controller PCB that fits the same space as the current one.
@Murphy deffa or lose half again and opt for LTO lol, thats what im doing, cause id rather have to lug around a huge battery than worry about my 200wh+ behemoth bursting into flames or a cloud of lethal smoke if something out of my control happened. cell level fusing and smart BMSs with extra failsafes are great and all but if something happens out of your control that bypasses those, some total black swan event you could never have seen coming, i dont know man but to me it seems worth it even if my phone will feel like carryign around a VHS tape...
@@doooofus i think it'll be bigger and heavier than a vhs tape. Just carry around a hand crank charger if you're so worried about your powerbank exploding. 🗿
@@aivarsaar Well you can do a away with a lot of cooling and make prismatic cells, gaining back about 20% of the capacity. Also they lose capacity slower, so after 5-6 years it will start closer together. On top of that, you can use then with both more and less charge, doing 0-100% instead of 20-85% in daily driving, while true, on long drives, the range will be shorter
I can help with that! I suggest: Batteries: hakadi makes some LiFePO4 cells that are much smaller than car batteries Circuitry: using 3 or 4 cells in series allows you to power a car adapter where you can then use USB ports to charge your phone.
Everyone should know about the occult and the evil in this world. And batteries are the main source. They're not allowed in hell because they're far too evil for hell that's why we have them here. Repent.
Unsafest fireman i ever seen with electronics. Suprised none of them for the exception of one wore a mask because Lithium batteries burning is highly toxic!
Yeah. Breathing smoke and vapors from something burning is one of the fastest ways to get poisoned. I was surprised at how few who were standing so close had no face protection.
I agree. More - This type of test is manipulated because LiFePO4 Cells will burn and blow up, too - if they are fully or overcharged! The smoke is burnable to! With this video you "fake" Security. This video is cut very forward to sell products.
@@jasonpotter4880 kind of like the DDT add from the 50s with a girl eating a hamburger while they sprayed DDT on her to prove how safe it is. She died rest her soul.
We use this one: shop.gwl.eu/Special-Products/Promo-lithium-battery-extinguishing-spray.html (in our battery workshop, we have also installed this: shop.gwl.eu/blog/Others/The-SAND-TUB--Get-ready-for-the-fire.html but that's only for pros 😎)
It is the same technology on a different package. Both are based on the LiCoO2 chemistry. As an aside, the "Li-ion" designation covers many chemistries, including LiFePO4, but generically refers to the LiCoO2 chemistry.
LTO is by far the best, not only is it the safest but also chargest the quickest, enabling a full charge from empty during 10-minute snack breaks and also has the most power, so capacitors won't be required for EVs and the circuitry can be simplified. That's the reason why Japan's brand-new bullet train uses Toshiba SCiB LTO cells. Japan's so amazing that they can now even now make a fullsize battery-electric high-speed train! Solid-state batteries will be even better!
How much charge do they hold? How much ampere you can get out of one? Probably so view, that it is not capable of ruling the market, because it is probably way to weak. That is why Li Po exist.
Great video. Feedback: The experiments were conducted without a safety barrier. Your specialists were exposed to danger during the experiment. The specialist is invaluable even if his experience is little. Your beautiful experiences benefited us.
While the test could be made safer, absolutely. With all honesty, this wasn't our first experience with any of the showcased technology during similar critical situations. It was first where we filmed the results in somewhat representative manner. Still, next test videos will be improved primarily to educate everyone else, on the danger level during such testing. For example, it is why we have chosen very tiny LiPo based cells (18650 form on the video during the external fire test), because larger cells would be serious danger to the personel.
Been around for many years, but you don't find them in consumer products because normal li-ion cells have much higher energy density. Apparently, LTO cells are best used in orbital satellites, where they have to endure many thousands of charge-discharge cycles and have an extremely long calendar life.
LTO isn't very common due being rather large & expensive compared to other chemistries. But it's by far one of the safest and most reliable chemistries out there.
Still amazing that a lot of professionals don't wear safety equipment. Why are so many people without a safety shield or at least safety glasses standing close to the batteries? And why are amateurs allowed so close? Safety at work still is a laughing matter for some. Nice results though.
I've been looking into battery options for van building, and considered installing LTO 40ah batteries running parallel at 48volts. I then saw a video of Li-Pol batteries exploding after it was punctured and thought "fuck that i'm not gonna drive around as a mobile time bomb", but I'm glad I got to see this video and now know if it overheats/gets damaged there are self contained precautionary measures.
I'm using lto in my scooter and I'll never go back to 18650 li ion. The cells are so strong you can even charge and discharge them at high current and they will still last decades.
all that protection yet only one dude was wearing eye protection, probably spent $50 grand to set up this test, must be government work lol. good video guys, weird music though
LTO cells are supposed to be good for an enormous number of cycles and have an extremely long calendar life. The have lower energy density (store less energy for their size & weight) than either conventional li-ion or LiFeP04 cells.
The fact that some of them have no inatincrive urge to run away when something violent happens, like fire on LiPo battery. They just stand where they were standing, staring at it
I respectfully disagree. They should have included that data b/c it's interesting & germane to the overall discussion of safety & performance tradeoffs between various battery chemistries
IF every battery expands when over-charging ( lets use it to our advantage ) Why not create a "over charge" curcuit between the inner terminals & the battery - where if it ( over-charges & expands ) ... the charge connector pins are displaced enough , or burn away enough ( away from the battery terminals) to end the connection.
Nice idea :) but we need a stable connection for all cases, not just for overload. This would only be for this one case, however the main benefits of batteries are stable and long lasting functionality.
I think that's basically what the CID in cylindrical Li-ion cells is. Rayovac also used that for their NiMH batteries designed for ultra-fast charging.
What is your procedure for sudden battery explosion and shrapnel injury to those leaning their heads towards the tests to tie their shoes, or leaning forward to get a tiktok video to post online?
and another advantage: LFP cells can operate 3.3 volt IC directly and without a voltage regulator. The voltage of 2.5 to 3.6 volts fits the circuits well. LIPO, on the other hand, have a voltage of up to 4.2 volts, which is too high for 3.3 volt circuits. The necessary voltage regulator dissipates energy into heat.
That doesn´t work. when batteries get older, they also lose voltage. Thus your LFP-cell no longer reaches 3.3 Volt, but e.g. 3.1 volt only for each cell. See? Or even 3 volts only. That is natural aging of batteries in general btw. so that is NOT an advantage, since you cannot use a device with batteries and put no voltage-regulator in it, without thinking over what happens when your battery reaches an age of e.g. 1 year or 5 years. This is when people mean a typical modern LiPo-battery will reach 80% of performance after about 1000 cycles. This means you lose 20% voltage as well. And this means, your battery no longer reaches 4.2 volts but instead (-20% => 10% = 0.42 volts here) you only get your battery to charge until 4.2 - 0.8 = 3.4 volts only. But this is in theory only, since each battery operates differently and normally each device uses multiple cells to reach higher voltages. So assuming you have a 3-cell setup (3 cells á 4.2 volts) = typical 12V-li-Po battery that means instead of reaching 12.6 volts, you now only reach about 12 Volts only. And 12 volts equals 80% of capacity here. At 10 Volts (equals 3.3 volts for each cell) your battery is at nearly 0% load so it´s EMPTY.
@@GWLPowered the test in the link indicates the gases contain hydrogen fluoride (HF) and phosphorus oxyfluoride (POF3). Nasty stuff. Good they don't burn, but don't be in the same room as one of those going off.
Really interesting to see that there is no safety discipline around such experiences (except for firefighters)! At a minimum, protective glasses for everyone.
Under a normal battery charging process...I think most people would be using a smart battery charger, volt meter, temp probe, circuit breaker or fuse to prevent a fire or over charging situation.
Temperature probes, circuit breakers or fuses are not suitable to prevent over changing (charging above the design voltage). They are only suitable to prevent damage from high charging current. Without cell balancing even regulating the charging voltage does not protect from over charging.
The 19th century was characterised by frequent steam boiler explosions but our 21st century technology is much safer, isn't it??? Certainly wouldn't want one of these dudes exploding in my pocket!
Why don't more manufacturers use LifePo4? Unless it's a really small device like a phone, the added energy density can't be that big? Seems like LifePO4 is ideal for a lot of medium sized consumer products.
Hallo. Explodieren Batterie nur wegen mechanischen Schaden und Überladung? Mein Akku 36V 10S (20 Batterie Li-Ion) ist beim Laden sehr heiß, drinnen gibt es BMS, trotzdem lässt sich das ohne Stop laden, und nach 5 Stunden Laden hat der Akku Spannung 42 V. Ist das ok? Wenn ich ein Stahl Box für Akku bastele, reduziert das Schaden wenn ein Explosion passieren soll? Danke!
Tired of Lithium Ion/Po (LCO, NCA, etc) getting a bad name. You haven’t explained what the overcharge conditions are and judging by those wires I’m guessing lots of available current and voltage there - a rather unlikely event in consumer electronics! Your video suggests that people should choose LFP and LTO over classic Lithium ion (they are all lithium ion technically) is like saying we should use methylated spirit in our car because petrol is too dangerous! It’s not apples to apples... LFP and LTO, which are inherently safer technologies, can’t always replace lithium ion/po in certain applications. Designing in protection and running FMEAs on our designs is the way to harness the greatness of this battery technology! Yes, they make a cracking clickbait video when you smack an axe in them, but really is that how one of the greatest world changing technologies is going to be remembered? John Goodenough deserves better!
This video is nothing but click bait most battery packs have built in redundancies it's called a bms unless it's a cheap battery system and the battery pouches are voltage, amp and temperature monitoring and packed in a hard case the reason why you're ev doesn't explode into flames from quick charge ac power to dc for the batteries the bms
You are entirely missing the point (advertising aside) of this video. Yes, liion is more energy dense and therefore more useful in most situations, but it is only safe with a TON of protections that need to be thoroughly tested. Even then, it still (very rarely) bursts into flame. Go google about Teslas burning up. I would generally trust a liion product that is commercially produced and in 1000s of homes without incident. HOWEVER, if you are doing any kind of DIY energy storage application (the main reason you would buy a ton of batteries) a single miscalculation or protection failure burns your house down. Why wouldn't you choose lifepo4 if it meant that unforseen problems in your DIY project would be harmless instead of tragic? Also, why are you defending liion like it's your mother? It's already used in almost all applications anyway. A little more LTO and LiFePo4 use in riskier situations is fine.
@@henryq9390 Not shock proofing. A chemistry that is harder (or preferentially impossible) to ignite under physical damage is thus obviously safer. It's actually rather impressive how much disregard for this issue is given on phones nowadays, an extremely likely device to get physically damaged, always thinner until barely usable, structurally ridiculously weak and using the standard, highly flammable chemistry in their batteries. Well, it does show the results sometimes tho.
What is the voltage supplied to each batteries when overcharging? The test should have been done with same package type of batteries and not different from one and other.
The most important test is not visible. I'm talking about what substances and gases are released, why some may be safer from mechanical impacts, but emit more and more dangerous substances that will kill you.
i was waititng for the battery to explode while the axe pierce the batteries. Would be a nice clip for a horror movie when the axe comes flying hitting someone in the head
I feel like these were some of the more _unsafe_ safety personnel... lol Unless these were just civilians _wearing_ partial safety gear? In which case, exhibited behavior checks out... 🤣😏 I was impressed that the LTO - which I believe that's a new-to-me chemistry - didn't even start to smoke when punctured. However, I also feel like that's almost entirely because of the pick being left in, preventing an inrush of the Oxygen needed to kick off the reaction. 😕 Still a great video, because *_science!_* Where even non-ideal execution of a test, _still_ yields useful data... Which is why science is awesome: ALL data, is USEFUL./GOOD data! 🤘
@@Jawst You mentioning UK has reminded me that the website they had shown actually might have been! Alas, it was the ".eu" domain, meaning you were correct 😋 And while checking for the link, their YT profile also lists them as being in Czechia, so yup... *_definitely_* not UK! 😅 But yea, eye protection and masks on some of them was my initial concern, which was amplified when those folks were then walking right up to the compromised cell... _and on top of that_ I noticed they lacked any sort of hand protection! 😂 _(nitrile, latex, nylon... all three work with touchscreens in my experience)_ At the end of the day, at least no one got hurt... even though that rocketing cell (LiPo I think) was a rather close call, and scared the hell out of the one dude! lol
We tested (timed links):
-----------
Overcharge
Li-Pol (0:24)
LTO (1:03)
LFP (1:28)
Short-Circuit
LTO (2:27)
LFP (3:02)
Puncture
LTO (3:54)
Li-Pol (4:28)
LFP (5:05)
External fire (ignition)
Li-Pol (6:17)
LTO (6:30)
LFP (6:56)
Weird @6:17. I have never seen a LiPo in an 18650 Li ion package before. Where did you get these?
Wow ...
@@headlessxp4948 lipol is a battery brand. Lipo is a battery chemistry type. The video is a bit confusing
ua-cam.com/video/FvkiyVTvhMI/v-deo.html those Winstone batteries sucks big time
I hope you cleaned all this contaminated site after your tests. I can see the crop fields near by. Do you know that lithium batteries are very toxic, especially when burning. You even spilled some water on punctured cells, which then ended up in the soil. The worst thing is that it was done by firefighters, as usually they are the persons who knows about such dangers. But not in this case, it seems they are stupid enough even to breath in the toxic fumes.
conclusion : lipo batteries are a good substitute to firecrackers
And life po4 is a great toxic smoke bomb substitute
Conclusion: GWL is a no good company that is taking our rights to own batteries that can spontaneously combust
For me, it's a source for death smoke, and oh, the smell of fire
@@CarLoverPhotography naaa ,not enough smoke
The thing you are holding is also a firecrackers
safety and energy density is always a engineering tradeoff. most of the more volatile chemistries are perfectly safe if treated right. but there is something to be said about using inherently safer chemistries for alot of applications.
Exactly. Li-PoL are very common because of their form factor compared to that of the others. You may say that they're super dangerous, but that's if you're excluding modern circuitry that commonly comes with said batteries effectively eliminating almost all of the risks.
Similar way to Nuclear Power in a way. It is arguably one of the cleanest and most efficient energy production methods. Modern plants have many safety features making a meltdown very very unlikely. But due to it being also one of the most horrible disasters if it does go horribly wrong, a few accidents have put a bad taste in many people's mouths.
@Stratos Fear Nuclear power is safe if you follow proper guidelines too :)
Jokes aside, nuclear power is the most efficient source of energy right now and also one of the cleanest at the same time.
Sure there is nuclear waste, but there are reactors in development that can use said waste as fuel.
The most used power plants are still coal ones and they are much worse ecologically than the nuclear ones. Not even mentioning that by burning coal, there are radioactive particles released into the air.
@Stratos Fear how about Hanford?
@@BloPsy_Actual So why does everyone wanna get rid of nuclear power and cover everything in PV panels?
@@mode3763 Because of the "very smart" people that fear the Nuclear energy.
Germany is great example. They had shut down their nuclear power plants, yet their renewable energy sources aren't sufficient enough for the country. They are buying energy from other countries - that energy is mostly produced by coal and nuclear power plants.
For example, Czechia is the one country that is selling it's energy to Germany. And Czechs do not want to shut down their nuclear power plants even tho there are a lot of protests from their neighbours. They even plan on upgrading the existing powerplants to get more energy, because they know that coal will once dry up and nuclear is only viable option in this part of the world.
Solar panels are utopian dream that will cost huge amount of money and will pollute our planet a lot if everyone will really switch to that. Not even mentioning the need of some sort of energy storage for winters, bad weather times etc. It will be probably huge battery banks, which will only last for few decades since you know, batteries, that will pollute our world so much, that those "very smart" people will regret not trusting Nuclear energy.
I knicked a lithium pouch with a box cutter in my bedroom :) I ran with it in my hand to the other end of the house to find the screen door locked! Grabbed the keys and unlocked the door, I threw the battery which was a massive smoke machine by then, before it hit the ground it burst into flames ! That was a close call ! Lesson learnt !
lol when you cut that lithium pouch : "the bomb has been planted"
Wow. Close call for sure. Hope your hand was alright!
I'm just genuinely curious... you're screen door has a key lock on it? And why is the lock on the wrong side? Lmao
@@huntzkush LOL
That screen door is almost certainly a fire code violation. A point of egress must not lock to the inside without a readily available means of unlocking it.
So,regardless of battery and application (other than cars) it looks like it would be a good idea that the battery box should be something like a wood stove /oil drum stove with a chimney that vents to the outside for solar and wind battery banks just for precautionary safety... This video just made me redesign my bank in my head over a power wall
I actually put my ebike battery inside the stove when I charge it.
Tesla always shows their power wall bank things outside the house in all their images for this reason
Maybe all EV batteries should have a fireproof chimney. Just in case.
we make battery bunkers for charging lipo batteries in the FPV RC drone hobby.
its a fireproof brick stove, with a battery charger inside... our 6s 1500mah batteries could burn a house to the ground.
batteries be like:
LTO: i squirt
LiFePO4: i swell, i smoke
LiPo: i boom
I wish it would give the statistics such as the voltage and amperage when it was overcharging at the time.
I recommend these videos to my readers who say lifepo4 is a bad chemistry. Great video!
What's their casw against it?
@@chrisE815they are extremely sensitive to cold temperatures, but that’s about the only major issue with it
Lifepo is cold resistant actually, their drawback is lesser energy density afaik @@chrisE815
Thanks for the video👍
Well I would have liked to see the voltage, current and Wh and the cell should have been at the same ah.
As you see some people seam to be confused and believe that the "safe" cell has the same energy density.
The first thing to understand wit battery is that there is a trade off no matter what you do.
Good points. LTO have less than half the Wattage-density and are lower voltage too. They also have a more stable voltage loss during discharge, which is great for output usage but makes measuring their charge percentage less accurate.
@@JasonJrake Uh... LTO has a higher cell voltage than LFP. It does have lower Watt (VoltAmp) density. Will Prowse has a nice comparison of LFP to LTO here: ua-cam.com/video/iOBSxEqXUQc/v-deo.html
@@kayzinti4452 I’ve seen that video and I’m not sure what you are referring to.
The lowest listed nominal ratings i found online:
for LTO is 2.4v, for LFP it’s 3.2v.
Maybe cells arranged into 12+ volt stacks are higher voltage in LTO though, if that’s what you mean.
The rule of thumb for lithium chemistries is that:
As nominal voltage goes down,
Discharge voltage slope flattens,
Functional Temp range increases,
Watt-hour density decreases,
Safety increases.
And how exactly will I get my Quad up into the air with those "safe" batteries?
they are almost as powerfull
I think they're aiming this advertising campaign at the industrial market and energy sector.
@@MatthewSlaymaker true....but then why compare to Lipo aka pouch cells?
@@ianbuilder ah like 50+ REAL C?
@@ELValenin prob like 30 c
I've been telling people for years about the dangers of making a battery bank with Lipo batteries and those people looked at me like I was crazy. While LIFePo4 batteries will combust also. The chances of having an unpleasant reaction inside a structure is greatly reduced especially with a battery management system that can monitor the temperature and the individual charge on each battery in an array. The cases that house the electrolyte for LIFePo4 batteries are pretty resilient against physical damage. They are unlikely to be damaged unless someone uses a tomahawk like in the video or uses a wrench and physically short circuits the cells through stupidity. Remember a fuse is your friend, always use one of the correct rating. A breaker may not be so friendly.
ur crazy
@@UREALERO Jealous.
huh ? isnt lipo use for RC only ? battery bank is li- ion
@@sdqsdq6274 Nope,li-ion means it have liquid electrolyte,li-po have solid electrolyte.There are LFP batteries that can be li-po a the same time
Even with LiFePo4, I'd want my solar farm's batteries to be in a concrete box, away from any combustible structures.
Спасибо за тест! У меня много li-ion и li-pol аккумуляторов, теперь знаю как ведут себя в разных условиях.
Li-Pol Is like
“You have chosen death” 😡
☠️
LiPol are mostly used in RC devices like planes and cars where performance is the most important (energy density and power density) safety is not a high priority in this application.
Cell phones
😂😂😂😂
Overcharging circuitry is critical with those pouches. It's also necessary to seal properly; never pinch them on the top edge (or anywhere) like Samsung did with Galaxy Note 7.
samsung note 7 have bad batteries not bad construction. learn and stop talking shit
Interesting tests! What was the state of charge of the batteries?
Note that the probability of a thermal runaway significantly drops at a low state of charge. This is especially important when buying cells that have been transported by air. Those are usually shipped at 30% SoC.
Those are interesting cases .. but .. what was the overcharging current for each case .. cause it really depend on the charge current.
LiFePO4 cells seems to be safe enough to replace the Li-ION cells inside my power bank. The hard part is to design a new charge controller PCB that fits the same space as the current one.
And find some LiFePo4 cells small enough to fit in a power bank while still providing a useful capacity
@Murphy deffa or lose half again and opt for LTO lol, thats what im doing, cause id rather have to lug around a huge battery than worry about my 200wh+ behemoth bursting into flames or a cloud of lethal smoke if something out of my control happened. cell level fusing and smart BMSs with extra failsafes are great and all but if something happens out of your control that bypasses those, some total black swan event you could never have seen coming, i dont know man but to me it seems worth it even if my phone will feel like carryign around a VHS tape...
@@doooofus i think it'll be bigger and heavier than a vhs tape. Just carry around a hand crank charger if you're so worried about your powerbank exploding. 🗿
@@aivarsaar Well you can do a away with a lot of cooling and make prismatic cells, gaining back about 20% of the capacity.
Also they lose capacity slower, so after 5-6 years it will start closer together.
On top of that, you can use then with both more and less charge, doing 0-100% instead of 20-85% in daily driving, while true, on long drives, the range will be shorter
I can help with that! I suggest:
Batteries: hakadi makes some LiFePO4 cells that are much smaller than car batteries
Circuitry: using 3 or 4 cells in series allows you to power a car adapter where you can then use USB ports to charge your phone.
This is why you need to use fuses and charging regulators for all types of batteries. This is a wonderful wonderful test.🤗🤗
Nope this is just a marketing scheme to show lipo as a ticking time bomb
4:34 dude you've just released the demons imprisoned in that battery. You're now curse by that battery's evil spirit.
Everyone should know about the occult and the evil in this world. And batteries are the main source. They're not allowed in hell because they're far too evil for hell that's why we have them here. Repent.
Unsafest fireman i ever seen with electronics. Suprised none of them for the exception of one wore a mask because Lithium batteries burning is highly toxic!
Yeah. Breathing smoke and vapors from something burning is one of the fastest ways to get poisoned. I was surprised at how few who were standing so close had no face protection.
Thats why outdoors and probably upstream of wind. Fire protection was enough, however eyewear is a must
I agree. More - This type of test is manipulated because LiFePO4 Cells will burn and blow up, too - if they are fully or overcharged! The smoke is burnable to! With this video you "fake" Security. This video is cut very forward to sell products.
@@RoamMeYo most definitely a battery lead flying in the eye is most un cool.
@@jasonpotter4880 kind of like the DDT add from the 50s with a girl eating a hamburger while they sprayed DDT on her to prove how safe it is. She died rest her soul.
Spilling highly toxic waste next to crop fields... Breathing in highly toxic fumes... Best firefighters I seen so far...
They upwind ya fckn tool.
So basically Li-Pol a smoke grenade...
why can i smell the battery smoke through my screen and why is it giving me a headache lol
If the Li-ion battery starts to burn, what should it be extinguished with? What type of fire extinguisher should we use?
We use this one: shop.gwl.eu/Special-Products/Promo-lithium-battery-extinguishing-spray.html
(in our battery workshop, we have also installed this: shop.gwl.eu/blog/Others/The-SAND-TUB--Get-ready-for-the-fire.html but that's only for pros 😎)
TIP÷
Li-pol(lithium polymer)batteries are used in most phones and has a limited heat capacity.
Nice video, however to be fair, what you tested at 6:19 was in fact Lithium-ion and not Lithium-polymer
i guess they are similar
@@tablet4170 nope.
LiPo are also available in round cells, so it is probably what they claimed. You cannot judge that by looking at the video.
How can you tell ..? LiPo exist in cylindrical package ...
It is the same technology on a different package. Both are based on the LiCoO2 chemistry. As an aside, the "Li-ion" designation covers many chemistries, including LiFePO4, but generically refers to the LiCoO2 chemistry.
I'm sorry, but nowhere in this video is the voltage of each battery type measured, so how do we know if the LTO was even charged at all?
Are you wondering how toxic is that smoke? This we've measured in this episode: ua-cam.com/video/YpdNkWs8coE/v-deo.html
2:39 whenever my dad sneezes
😻😻😹😹😹
This music is incredibly ominous and thinking of many scenarios that it would fit perfectly in
hi, very interesting what voltage was used for overcharge
Why though
Just increase the ampere.
@@kiranranjitkar2748 That’s not how it works.
Can get overcharge fire at about 5.2V/ LiPo cell, maybe less. Guess how I figured that....
It is not li po it is li ion battery
LTO is by far the best, not only is it the safest but also chargest the quickest, enabling a full charge from empty during 10-minute snack breaks and also has the most power, so capacitors won't be required for EVs and the circuitry can be simplified. That's the reason why Japan's brand-new bullet train uses Toshiba SCiB LTO cells.
Japan's so amazing that they can now even now make a fullsize battery-electric high-speed train! Solid-state batteries will be even better!
How much charge do they hold?
How much ampere you can get out of one?
Probably so view, that it is not capable of ruling the market, because it is probably way to weak.
That is why Li Po exist.
Would have been nice to actually hear the batteries exploding.
Nothing better than Ni-Cd! Still using it, some of them are older than 10 years! 👍🏻
right, strange that they are not that popular as Pb battery, especially Nickel-metal hydride one
That overcharge LiPo battery just turned into Saturn V rocket exhaust
More like half of a satellite's RCS thruster, but still a rocket.
Which of these can handle more current and hold more power for a longer lasting usage by weight?
I guess the li po by far
The LTO cell looks like a SUPERCAPACITOR 💪
It's packaged with screw terminals due to the high current rating for LTO batteries.
Great video.
Feedback: The experiments were conducted without a safety barrier.
Your specialists were exposed to danger during the experiment.
The specialist is invaluable even if his experience is little.
Your beautiful experiences benefited us.
While the test could be made safer, absolutely.
With all honesty, this wasn't our first experience with any of the showcased technology during similar critical situations. It was first where we filmed the results in somewhat representative manner. Still, next test videos will be improved primarily to educate everyone else, on the danger level during such testing.
For example, it is why we have chosen very tiny LiPo based cells (18650 form on the video during the external fire test), because larger cells would be serious danger to the personel.
@@GWLPowered RESCUE THANKS 🙏
Never heard of LTO. Thanks!
Been around for many years, but you don't find them in consumer products because normal li-ion cells have much higher energy density.
Apparently, LTO cells are best used in orbital satellites, where they have to endure many thousands of charge-discharge cycles and have an extremely long calendar life.
LTO isn't very common due being rather large & expensive compared to other chemistries. But it's by far one of the safest and most reliable chemistries out there.
What are the initial SOC values of those batteries? Are they all fully charged, all fully empty, or mixed?
Conlusion : LifePo4 is safe if it is stored in a safety canister.
Still amazing that a lot of professionals don't wear safety equipment. Why are so many people without a safety shield or at least safety glasses standing close to the batteries? And why are amateurs allowed so close? Safety at work still is a laughing matter for some. Nice results though.
They can trust their products :D
I've been looking into battery options for van building, and considered installing LTO 40ah batteries running parallel at 48volts. I then saw a video of Li-Pol batteries exploding after it was punctured and thought "fuck that i'm not gonna drive around as a mobile time bomb", but I'm glad I got to see this video and now know if it overheats/gets damaged there are self contained precautionary measures.
I'm using lto in my scooter and I'll never go back to 18650 li ion. The cells are so strong you can even charge and discharge them at high current and they will still last decades.
all that protection yet only one dude was wearing eye protection, probably spent $50 grand to set up this test, must be government work lol. good video guys, weird music though
Definitely building an LTO bank for my new audio build. Wanted information on the safety of lipo and LiFePo4.
LTO cells are supposed to be good for an enormous number of cycles and have an extremely long calendar life. The have lower energy density (store less energy for their size & weight) than either conventional li-ion or LiFeP04 cells.
The fact that some of them have no inatincrive urge to run away when something violent happens, like fire on LiPo battery.
They just stand where they were standing, staring at it
For all those asking what the numbers were. Don't over charge, over discharge, or short any battery. Doesn't matter what the numbers were.
I respectfully disagree. They should have included that data b/c it's interesting & germane to the overall discussion of safety & performance tradeoffs between various battery chemistries
LTO batteries would be perfect for Indian conditions... Heat and rough roads...
And Indians love taking their vehicles off-road (ladakh,etc)
2:40 What fluid is that?
Orphan tears
IF every battery expands when over-charging ( lets use it to our advantage )
Why not create a "over charge" curcuit between the inner terminals & the battery - where if it ( over-charges & expands ) ... the charge connector pins are displaced enough , or burn away enough ( away from the battery terminals) to end the connection.
Nice idea :) but we need a stable connection for all cases, not just for overload. This would only be for this one case, however the main benefits of batteries are stable and long lasting functionality.
I think that's basically what the CID in cylindrical Li-ion cells is. Rayovac also used that for their NiMH batteries designed for ultra-fast charging.
Kudos to the bravery of the guy who axed the Li-Pol and stayed there holding the axe!
What is your procedure for sudden battery explosion and shrapnel injury to those leaning their heads towards the tests to tie their shoes, or leaning forward to get a tiktok video to post online?
Thank you very much for the battery testing comparison. Now I can sleep in peace!... Is GWL available in Canada??
We are based in Czech (EU), we do ship to Canada.
Thats a great question but wtf this question is so dumb
@@geometrikselfelsefesi What do you mean dumb? Which part of my question looks dumb to you?
@@ahnafpiash i can sleep in peace! idk but funny question ok sorry
@@ahnafpiash we all know kids who play baldi wtf that game name are brainless
and another advantage:
LFP cells can operate 3.3 volt IC directly and without a voltage regulator. The voltage of 2.5 to 3.6 volts fits the circuits well.
LIPO, on the other hand, have a voltage of up to 4.2 volts, which is too high for 3.3 volt circuits.
The necessary voltage regulator dissipates energy into heat.
That doesn´t work. when batteries get older, they also lose voltage. Thus your LFP-cell no longer reaches 3.3 Volt, but e.g. 3.1 volt only for each cell. See? Or even 3 volts only. That is natural aging of batteries in general btw. so that is NOT an advantage, since you cannot use a device with batteries and put no voltage-regulator in it, without thinking over what happens when your battery reaches an age of e.g. 1 year or 5 years.
This is when people mean a typical modern LiPo-battery will reach 80% of performance after about 1000 cycles. This means you lose 20% voltage as well. And this means, your battery no longer reaches 4.2 volts but instead (-20% => 10% = 0.42 volts here) you only get your battery to charge until 4.2 - 0.8 = 3.4 volts only. But this is in theory only, since each battery operates differently and normally each device uses multiple cells to reach higher voltages.
So assuming you have a 3-cell setup (3 cells á 4.2 volts) = typical 12V-li-Po battery that means instead of reaching 12.6 volts, you now only reach about 12 Volts only.
And 12 volts equals 80% of capacity here. At 10 Volts (equals 3.3 volts for each cell) your battery is at nearly 0% load so it´s EMPTY.
Many thanks for doing the first fair tests I've seen anyone do.
5:30 mechanical damage to LiFePO4 does not look safe at all. A lot of gas comes out. What is that gas? Is it flammable? Is it breathable?
Full test performed by acredited Laboratory in Czech: shop.gwl.eu/Expert-Opinion-Chemical-test-of-LFP-during-breakdown/
@@GWLPowered the test in the link indicates the gases contain hydrogen fluoride (HF) and phosphorus oxyfluoride (POF3). Nasty stuff. Good they don't burn, but don't be in the same room as one of those going off.
wow! this proves that lifepo4 batteries are far safe ahead of Li-pol. they will smoke but will not explode. very good test guys!
Thanks! Sometimes, one picture is better than a thousand words and analyses ;)
Battery : on fire, smoke venting furiously
Video : ✅
Really interesting to see that there is no safety discipline around such experiences (except for firefighters)! At a minimum, protective glasses for everyone.
Yea. They’re wearing protective clothes, but most way to close with no eye protection. Better off wearing tee shirts and safety glasses
Do you have an idea what is the short circuit current of the Lfp cell ?
Under a normal battery charging process...I think most people would be using a smart battery charger, volt meter, temp probe, circuit breaker or fuse to prevent a fire or over charging situation.
Temperature probes, circuit breakers or fuses are not suitable to prevent over changing (charging above the design voltage). They are only suitable to prevent damage from high charging current. Without cell balancing even regulating the charging voltage does not protect from over charging.
Wiht all the trend of electric vehicles, Firefigthers need to train on battery fires and explosions, pretty dangerous stuff
Try that with the battery in my old merc, took days to charge
:()
Sad how much amp hours?
Last time I checked phones and most electronics are powered by Li-Ion not LiPo. Not that Li-Ion cant catch fire but the chemistry is safer than LiPo.
I think you have exceeded the manufacurers specifikation and this voided the warranty. 🤭
Informative video, very good.
Just a little bit :)
Why was the LFP cell being doused with water at the end? It almost appears that they were trying to keep it from catching fire...
1st Grade LTO and 2nd grade LFP ,, no more polymer safety point :(
LiPo batteries always remind me of microwave popcorn when they fail. 🔥💥
0:07 background music name??
For the LiFePo battery what are these fumes and how dangerous are there when inhaled by accident?
Hello, this we've covered in another video: ua-cam.com/video/YpdNkWs8coE/v-deo.html
This was very well done, informative and interesting to watch!
hello mr, may i download the video and then upload it on my youtube channel...?
This is like ASMR lol
:D oookay, we might be missing some audience targeting then! :DDD
Odd looking lipo for the ignition test looked a lot more like a lithium ion 18650 than a lipo
This was the best Lipos Batteries test I have seem 😃😃😃👏👏👏👏👏👏
great demo video, thank you!
hello bro can i use this video contend for my you tube channel for education purpose
Imagine the smell...
0:30 I like the way it just inflates like a balloon. Of course, you wouldn't want to be anywhere near it when it does.
GreatScott sent me
Do you mean "GreatScott"?
@@poyen_tseng yeah! Sorry for the spelling mistake
Where is li-pol short circuit?
You should do IMR 18650 batteries. There smaller batteries but have a violent thermal run away
The 19th century was characterised by frequent steam boiler explosions but our 21st century technology is much safer, isn't it??? Certainly wouldn't want one of these dudes exploding in my pocket!
An interesting & very practical demonstration of the various battery types, thanks for posting.
Why don't more manufacturers use LifePo4? Unless it's a really small device like a phone, the added energy density can't be that big? Seems like LifePO4 is ideal for a lot of medium sized consumer products.
At the time of mechanical damage, this company keeps the LiFePO4 battery to their own side.
LiPol: it’s either explode or explode
Take it or leave it
Thank you the best comparison I have seen.
Hallo. Explodieren Batterie nur wegen mechanischen Schaden und Überladung? Mein Akku 36V 10S (20 Batterie Li-Ion) ist beim Laden sehr heiß, drinnen gibt es BMS, trotzdem lässt sich das ohne Stop laden, und nach 5 Stunden Laden hat der Akku Spannung 42 V. Ist das ok? Wenn ich ein Stahl Box für Akku bastele, reduziert das Schaden wenn ein Explosion passieren soll? Danke!
Last lipol comparzation whas not right it whas liIon batery.! Not lipolimer
lithium ion batteries are a type of lithium polymer battery
@@handlemchandleson1 Other way around! But yea same chemistry.
Just different in physical construction.
The only battery that I LOVE is Lithium polymer(lipo) I don’t care about the safety risks which I should be careful of.I love them as they got power
Tired of Lithium Ion/Po (LCO, NCA, etc) getting a bad name. You haven’t explained what the overcharge conditions are and judging by those wires I’m guessing lots of available current and voltage there - a rather unlikely event in consumer electronics! Your video suggests that people should choose LFP and LTO over classic Lithium ion (they are all lithium ion technically) is like saying we should use methylated spirit in our car because petrol is too dangerous! It’s not apples to apples... LFP and LTO, which are inherently safer technologies, can’t always replace lithium ion/po in certain applications. Designing in protection and running FMEAs on our designs is the way to harness the greatness of this battery technology! Yes, they make a cracking clickbait video when you smack an axe in them, but really is that how one of the greatest world changing technologies is going to be remembered? John Goodenough deserves better!
This video is nothing but click bait most battery packs have built in redundancies it's called a bms unless it's a cheap battery system and the battery pouches are voltage, amp and temperature monitoring and packed in a hard case the reason why you're ev doesn't explode into flames from quick charge ac power to dc for the batteries the bms
This is an add mate.
You are entirely missing the point (advertising aside) of this video. Yes, liion is more energy dense and therefore more useful in most situations, but it is only safe with a TON of protections that need to be thoroughly tested. Even then, it still (very rarely) bursts into flame. Go google about Teslas burning up. I would generally trust a liion product that is commercially produced and in 1000s of homes without incident. HOWEVER, if you are doing any kind of DIY energy storage application (the main reason you would buy a ton of batteries) a single miscalculation or protection failure burns your house down. Why wouldn't you choose lifepo4 if it meant that unforseen problems in your DIY project would be harmless instead of tragic? Also, why are you defending liion like it's your mother? It's already used in almost all applications anyway. A little more LTO and LiFePo4 use in riskier situations is fine.
@@jerrytheseventhchild4755 the ton of safety features are built into the bm
@@henryq9390 Not shock proofing. A chemistry that is harder (or preferentially impossible) to ignite under physical damage is thus obviously safer. It's actually rather impressive how much disregard for this issue is given on phones nowadays, an extremely likely device to get physically damaged, always thinner until barely usable, structurally ridiculously weak and using the standard, highly flammable chemistry in their batteries. Well, it does show the results sometimes tho.
If it explodes suddenly, the axe will fly out?
Don't think they can release THAT much energy at once.
What is the voltage supplied to each batteries when overcharging?
The test should have been done with same package type of batteries and not different from one and other.
The most important test is not visible. I'm talking about what substances and gases are released, why some may be safer from mechanical impacts, but emit more and more dangerous substances that will kill you.
i was waititng for the battery to explode while the axe pierce the batteries. Would be a nice clip for a horror movie when the axe comes flying hitting someone in the head
Those lithium polymer batteries are bloody dangerous! And these type of batteries are in our mobile phones and tablets and laptop computers !
I feel like these were some of the more _unsafe_ safety personnel... lol
Unless these were just civilians _wearing_ partial safety gear? In which case, exhibited behavior checks out... 🤣😏
I was impressed that the LTO - which I believe that's a new-to-me chemistry - didn't even start to smoke when punctured. However, I also feel like that's almost entirely because of the pick being left in, preventing an inrush of the Oxygen needed to kick off the reaction. 😕
Still a great video, because *_science!_* Where even non-ideal execution of a test, _still_ yields useful data... Which is why science is awesome: ALL data, is USEFUL./GOOD data! 🤘
yes, you can see them in some clips all near the batteries without a mask, knowing how poisonous those smokes are.
Quite shocking! 🙈 can only loose an eye twice! I'm guessing this isn't a UK based company 😆
@@Jawst You mentioning UK has reminded me that the website they had shown actually might have been!
Alas, it was the ".eu" domain, meaning you were correct 😋
And while checking for the link, their YT profile also lists them as being in Czechia, so yup... *_definitely_* not UK! 😅
But yea, eye protection and masks on some of them was my initial concern, which was amplified when those folks were then walking right up to the compromised cell... _and on top of that_ I noticed they lacked any sort of hand protection! 😂
_(nitrile, latex, nylon... all three work with touchscreens in my experience)_
At the end of the day, at least no one got hurt... even though that rocketing cell (LiPo I think) was a rather close call, and scared the hell out of the one dude! lol
What kind of camera do you use in 0:50 which is resistant to high temperature?
Gopro
Nice comparison, but I really dislike instructional videos that play annoying music instead of adding commentary, explaining what’s going on.